@@Tolbat lol, this video is close to 7 years old now, and I've lost count as too how many of these Kickstarter console scams have happened since then. Its hilarious the crazy things people will do to make money. The irony they hollowed out the case for an Atari Jaguar, threw a piece of cardboard in it, then pushed it on the public as a worthwhile investment.
I agree. Better off buying a Dell Inspiron for $200, a X-Box 360 controller, and get an emulator. Put individual games on a USB flash drive and pretend it's some radical cartridge. Or even use an SD card.
Haha, yeah that's actually a good idea, plus you don't have to use that crappy knock off WiiU controller. And hell, the USB stick idea is already being used by Indiebox!
Your exposé here should win best award for short documentary based on retro video game crowdfunding scams. I present you with the Palme d'or of the RVGS film festival. The other nominees were.. Nostalgia SH-IT Sizzle Reel, and Prototype Building In Your Kitchen 101. The competition was tough this year but you my friend win the grand prize.
+Andy Kaufman LOL!! I accept your award! As Mr. Kaufman would say, thankyouvedymuch! That prototype in the kitchen should have gone back in the oven, it's not ready yet.
+Andy Kaufman LOL! Prototype building in your kitchen 101? That statement nailed it. I'm guessing this wasn't the impression the Retro VGS team was going for. Odd, because his magazine is outstanding.
Speaking of collecting for a retro console you've never played before, I've recently gotten a Sega Master System, having never had much interest in it until recently. I happened to find a guy selling a kitted-out system with a bunch of accessories and complete games on Facebook, and decided to jump at it. I'm an NES junkie going way back, but even with this early start to my collection, there are some tight games for the SMS. Choplifter is pretty intense, and Gangster Town for the light gun runs circles around Duck Hunt. I'm already combing eBay for the wealth of games they had in Europe. Somehow, I don't think a tarted-up Atari Jaguar with Android tablet guts that isn't sure what it is, would accurately replicate this experience.
+Agamemnon2 hahaha, you're not the only one! I too thought there were a lot of similarities to CWCville. I feel like Mike may be like a more semi-successful version of Chris Chan. I want the Retro VGS to get its own ED page, that would be the icing on the cake.
I like Mike and am a Retro magazine subscriber, but I have to agree with you on this one. I think the success of his magazine led him to a "make it and they will buy it" sense about the Retro VGS, and instead of using common business sense, he just tried to get a crowdfund started and figured the rest would take care of itself. We Retro nerds definitely use our hearts more than our heads when it comes to retro stuff, but we too have our limits, and Mike definitely found that limit with this. He can still make it succeed if he learns from his mistakes the next time.
+Retro Active I agree with you but while it does seem like they rushed into this and thought money would solve all of their problems there's no way that's the whole truth. They hyped this console for the better part of the year and still didn't have the specs locked down. And yes, we retro heads have been swindled before by sub-par products in the form of the Retron 5 or various retro themed controllers but the Retro VGS has to be one of the worst and most blatant.
+StopDrop&Retro Absolutely right is it not the whole truth, no, but this was still far from vaporware, don't you think? The reason I say this is Mike had been talking to developers (listen to his Colecovisions podcast), and Gamester81's Collectorvisions company already had dibs on the pack-in game, so there had to have been SOME basis for the hardware that was being developed, whether it was FPGA, emulation, SOC, or something we weren't aware of. I definitely think having a working prototype showing the pack-in game and some other type of cross-platform cartridge capability should have been established prior to the crowdfunding campaign. Oddly, as you showed on your other video, there was some sort of proof of concept prototype, and patents were allegedly pending, so possibly this all was just a bit premature? A case of bad timing perhaps?
+Retro Active Of course they never intended it to become vaporware, no creator wants that to happen, but the fact is that the project as its been shown has a HIGH likelihood of becoming vaporware even if it was funded, IMO. There is a timing issue that could be referred to as "premature" but a possibly more honest way of describing how everything went down is that their justification was simply "get the money." As you said, they figured everything would fall into place after the campaign was successful. I think Mike has every intention to make a console but there's no denying that he's more focused on raising the funds, the console will come later... IF it comes later, but by that point it's not longer his problem, it's your problem, his problems were over the day the funds came in.
StopDrop&Retro I see your point, and Indiegogo is somewhat notorious for this so I can see your concern. I can say this though, Mike has worked hard to build a reputation and I know he was hoping this would take him into the retro business full time, so if this became vaporware, he would be ostracized and blackballed from the retro community for good, and I guarantee you he knows this.
+Retro Active Well, I think you'll like the next episode I'm working on as I type this. You might be able to see it and get a different perspective for how the RVGS was marketed and its chances of succeeding in the market based on past experience. I've got to get back to work on the episode now!
Great stuff here. Retro Land is a wonderful way describe the what happened with the Retro VGS. This is one of the best videos on the subject that I have seen.
+Game Escape Thank you for your compliments! You also made some great parody videos too, I was laughing my ass off!! I recommend that everyone check them out. You have a talent for being in front of the camera, you should roll with it and keep it up!
Just as an aside, Atari was able to sell (apparently only some?) of the Jaguar molds to a dental camera company. Molds are ludicriously expensive to make, so no one is going to just up and destroy them if there's even a slight chance they can be resold to someone...like someone wanting to use them for a different console.
1:18 oh my god I remember going to that panel In 2015 I was 13 years old and I didn't really know about indies and smaller companies. So when I was hearing them talk about this new console I was mindblown. Looking back at it now though it's a really dumb idea. Modern consoles now have a lot of indie games especially Nintendo with their Switch so I don't really have a need for a console only dedicated to indies. Btw I've went to every GameOnExpo ever held (and GameOnExpo 2019 in a week) and after 2015 they didn't show up again.
@@Bro3256Films I thought it was some sort of retro game system. But only indie games? Who needs that when consolea do that already. *I wish it actually worked out, just differently.*
Late reply is late but yeah, that is really dumb and squandering resources but I think they did that already knowing that the big publishers wouldn't want to release or even reproduce anything for this thing if it came out so they HAD to find a way to entice devs to make something for them. It sounds shifty as hell considering you can already do this for STEAM which even allows for more access to an audience. I mean think about it; with STEAM you essentially just need your laptop and an account. You really don't have to own any console to have access to a large choice of games which shows you how far gaming as a whole have come. I mean, if you want SPECIFIC games, YES but STEAM has access to the libraries of so many publishers that you can play. I've got Jet Grind Radio, the Streets of Rage collection, Sonic Mania, A Hat in Time ect all through Steam. If you told kid me I would own all this shit on a single account, from different publishers that were once on seperate consoles, THAT would have blown MY mind and it still kinda does. But the plans for this 'system' would limit your audience since you're making the spects for that system SPECIFICALLY and if it doesn't work out? Yeah. It feels like a trap for young people to feel like they've made it big when they have their game on a 'real console' when it doesn't matter. Didn't Cuphead get massive via digital first before it got physical copies? Correct me if I'm wrong.
My "Retroland" is a reality where consoles have globally provided for running games from PC-parallel media (optical/magnetic disks and magnetic tapes) since the Famicom Disk System in the high 8-bit era (Nintendo blundered by keeping it in Japan). Speaking of the Famicom Disk System, it wasn't as if nobody at all might have expected it to materialize. After all, even the Atari VCS/2600 uses a CPU mostly parallel to that used by the Apple II, which uses floppy disks to store data externally, and every major console of the low 8-bit era had official cartridges or peripherals which effectively converted it into an entry-level PC, the Bally Astrocade and Phillips/Magnavox Odyssey2 even being respectively intentionally marketed and designed as such (the Odyssey2 has remained, to this day, the only video game console to come with a full alphanumeric keyboard built in). In Europe, the technical first 16-bit console was essentially the Commodore Amiga PC of 1985, which used 12-bit color.
+Joseph Ruhf Maybe with Steam OS we'll get closer to that? I actually love the Magnavox Odyssey, I have one in its original box and I'll probably cover it next year!
+StopDrop&Retro The flawed idea behind the cartridge based consoles of the pre-128-bit era is that it is possible to not outright make a low-level PC when you are using processors which are mostly to totally compatible with PC processors and consumers will buy that the item is different from a PC just because a PC generally does not natively read EPROMs and it does. For example, the Atari 400/800 PC central hardware is cloned exactly in the Atari 5200 and yet the Atari 5200 appears never to have had official peripherals parallel to those available for the full-scale PCs, which makes no more sense in retrospect than it must have made at that time.
As much as I love playing older games, this massive race to be as retro as possible has done a lot more harm to the gaming community than good. Sure, there have been some great games that have cashed in on those aesthetics but those are the EXCEPTION to the new rules a lot of 'devs' are trying to run with. They KNOW there is a massive nostalgia market and withing that market are people who will instantly jump on something simply because it LOOKS nostalgic despite not having anything else to offer in the form of playablity. You know. That thing that people do when they start up the game in order to get from the start to the goal with entertainment thrown in as well. Does anyone else know about that? I can say it started with shitty indie devs who thought any game that tried to emulate Atari graphics would bring them cash since anything above the MSPaint line art requires time and practice to create decent looking PIXEL ART that isn't just a Megaman recolor. I'mma be frank; I was born during AFTER the game crash when both Sega and Nintendo were changing things so by the time I was even OLD enough to start playing games I had no idea what the fuck an Atari was. All I knew was Sega and Nintendo and had I seen those graphics as a kid I would have thought Atari was the shittiest looking thing I had ever played. I was playing Sonic, Mario, Star Fox, ect. Why the fuck would I want to put that down to play a VERY EARLY version of Break Out? Because I was born in the late 80s? Because I'm one of those '80s/90s kids'? Getting back on topic, I'm not trying to shit on older games. I'm just tired of people riding those memories in efforts to sell trash that does not work. It's really insulting not just to buyers but the people who MADE those early games because all it says to me is that they see those games not exactly for their fun but rather for their outside look and just how RETRO they can be in order to turn profit. Granted when those games were made they weren't trying to be anything other than marketable but for a whole different set of reasons. They looked that way not by CHOICE but rather due to the limitations at the time yet they made an impact. Things like this are working backwards to that; they're limiting themselves simply to pretend to be a product of that time and in most cases, such as this, they've set themselves up for failure thinking all of this would be 'easy'. It's not. Even if I had know about this at the time it was being pitched, I wouldn't have backed it because I'm burnt out on 'backing' games and systems in this manner. I'm still a person who would rather wait until a FINAL PRODUCT is made and then test it than just throw my money out at a fucking pitch video with nothing to back it up. You know why I liked going to malls as a kid and standing at those shitty demo stations? BECAUSE I GOT A CHANCE TO PLAY THE FINAL PRODUCT AND SEE IT RIGHT THERE BEFORE I ASKED MY FAMILY FOR THE GOD DAMN GAME. DO you know why I liked going ton FRIENDS' houses to play games? Same reason as before. We're not getting those type of feelings anymore with this, ESPECIALLY if you don't frequent cons where they 'set up' prototypes like this. It's all so shady as fuck and the scale of success vs failure on some of these things is so unbalanced. But in the end, even with as much as I have BITCHED about this old ass video, I don't think 'retro' is wholly BAD. I just hate the people who whore off it and miss the reasons why people enjoy those old games, art styles, and what not and then make the shittiest attempts to 'bring it back' and expect assloads of money just because. I have more respect for the person who takes the time to actually understand the art and CREATE something wonderful with it vs the person who just shits out a turd, sticks a 'retro' sticker on it and then acts like we pissed on their dead pet's grave because we didn't praise them as the next Miyamoto.
Pier Solar will be available on an Invisible for $70. Only people who have paid admission to Retro Land can enter the parallel universe that is Retro Land where the game exists.
+InnovaX5 haha, geez I remember when Pier Solar was in the flash sale on PSN for like $7 or so. Geez, Mike & Co. don't have a clue about their market. But I guess they're learning as they go along.
+InnovaX5 Oh wow. Pier Solar. Has anybody played it? I mean cool, what a nice MegaDrive engine. If it wasn't trying to do so much lighting effects, it would have also not had obnoxious slowdowns and load times. But hey, i'd say a bit of engine ambition is good. Arrogance is not, and arrogance is the only word that i can think of to describe this game's writing. Plus the gameplay ain't all that, but i would have forgiven it if the game wasn't so smug and arrogant all the time. Oh how much it loves its sub-par humour. How epic it thinks it is. Wow.
+Farts McGee Thank you! Welcome! And yeah, I'm kinda ashamed to admit it but I've been getting a lot more playtime on my PC than original consoles right now. Not that I regret that time.
StopDrop&Retro Cheers man, I really love your channel. You should pick up a JPD XD to give one of your great, full reviews of, maybe an Nvidia Shield portable and an old Xperia Play too. The most wonderful thing about emulation to me, now more than ever, is that we can experience the games as they were never meant, and potentially much better. N64 without the smear, Wii games with the remote-waggle replaced with a button press, gamecube games at HD resolution, even VR support for some. Not to mention save states, and slow-mo and fast forward modes. I recently replayed Earthbound, FF6 and Chrono Trigger on my GPD G7, and without proper use of the fast forward I don't think I would of gotten through just FF6 in the same time.
Using a FPGA to emulate old systems is genius! However these guys have to be complete idiots. 1) Making the PCB layout is easy. A skilled EE can finish a layout like that in a week. 2) The maufacture of the PCB is easy. There are companies who maufacture the whole board (with components). Its super cheap and a common practice in electronics design. The only hard task for the development of the system is the software. They have to configure the FPGA for all the different systems, thats alot of work. But they failed the tho easy tasks, so I dont think they will be able to do it!
doesn't it also take a long time to "rewrite" an FPGA chip? They seem to think it's as easy as swapping cartridges but I thought I heard it takes a while to boot a new core.
FPGA based retro consoles are on the market now. They don't do a great job of explaining why they're better, but because I was a programmer on the old consoles back in the day I would guess that the advantage is LAG. The original consoles output a signal at a rate determined by the way CRTs worked and there was no lag between generating that signal and displaying it. Emulating that on a standard computer system means that there's probably at least a whole screen (60th of a second) lag between emulating that process and sending the output to your TV. Then, sadly, there may be another 60th of a second lag in the TV itself :( Yeah, there's no way in hell you're gonna make it through Ghosts and Goblins, Battle Toads or Contra with a 30th of a second lag.
Four years later (possibly earlier, but that's when it started surfacing at large) we got MiSTer, which is everything VGA promised, except it's real, available and open-source.
LoL a 16bit version of Bioshock. That I would love to see. the cart must be made of impossiblium. As we are gonna get made up elements before we will ever see a 16bit Bioshock. But I believe ActiBlizz would put CoD on it
I was excited for this thing! This was going to be awesome!!!! It really stung to see this thing go up in flames. However, I have a genesis now, so I don’t care anymore.
+FriendofSonic Thanks! And yes, it's kinda sad to see how unrealistic this project has become. I pledge to stupidly fun crowdfunding projects all the time (I should be showing off a retro handheld here in a few weeks!) but there's a line where the fun stops and things get seriously risky for the backers and I think the RVGS crossed that a long time ago.
+17R3W Yeah, I don't know why they thought doubling the price would go down well. They should have just kept quiet until they had running hardware, it seems to have been their biggest problem throughout the project.
I think this could be cool for retro-style indie games, you could use flash memory to store it onto a cartridge and then have the console have very powerful ram, and cpu. But not like a great idea.
The Atari Jaguar was far ahead of its time, included a number of innovative elements, very powerful for its time yet underutilized, and could be considered the last of the great "super-consoles". He obviously pushed the Jaguar brand so much to ride on its coat tails.
+InnovaX5 Thanks! I've got more videos on the way. The next one is going to be about a successful gaming-hardware Kickstarter that might be one of the best products to ever come from that site!
I can't wait for that video. I'm so happy the RETRO VGS fiasco helped me find such awesome talent here on youtube. Awesome videos man, keep up the good work!
+InnovaX5 Right? I've been finding all kinds of good podcasts and blogs just by following this story. And thank you for your compliments! I do not take them lightly!
Honestly, I consider it strange to want to go back to cartridges. You can still make a retro looking game on a CD. And it doesn't come at the cost of limited resources, data, or risking the game being messed up by dust.
super agree with how you say they are building it backwards! They have said a few times how they have had difficulties getting the design in the jag shell. Yet it is a great thing they got it. Maybe they could have used that money to make a prototype instead. I would rather it just be in a see through plexiglass shell, or something. Then you can fit all the crap and out puts you want on it. i personally don't even like the jag case. I'm remind of the jags failure every time I see the VGS
+zackery chapman I've actually taken a liking to the Jag case. It's so 90's neo-futuristic, like something you'd see in Starship Troopers. That being said though, I don't agree with them that they're supposedly passing those savings onto the consumer. And if their breakdown of the funds is any indication, they intended to live like heathens off the crowdfunding, so saving money was never a high priority.
Yea, to each there own. I think the Jag looks ok I guess, but it is missing a dust cover, and has a big hole in the back...? My point is more that when I look at the VGS I am going to think of the jaguar (i was prop in 5th grade when it came out). I understand some ppl through either lack of knowledge, or love from their parent. They may have owned this counsel, and care about it. To me it is one of the worst systems of all time. When you consider that it was made by Atari (kinda a big deal in the gaming community) to compete with things like the Sega, Snes, Nes, and Turbo Grafix. It's a joke. Plus a year or two after it came out there was the Playstation, and Sega Saturn to compete with! (i don't bring up 32x or 3DO because those are the other two worst systems imo.) to me it's a questionable that they keep bringing up this Jaguar case crap. Like, "dude that system was a piece of shit." You think you are doing a good thing by keeping the Jag alive, or something? that said it did look pretty bad ass in those see-through colors! lol
***** Yea i was following the vgs since Feb i think, and it just seems like the idea of what this system is/ is going to do has changed. like they are trying to appease their FB market. So much so that I wonder if they even know what they were really trying to sell. Which makes me think they just wanted to sell something, rather than sell me on something. So they are just going to get rid of all the features that made it worth buying to sell a $180 system that is basically a waist of money. So i can own my copy of Tiny Knight...? (Neodev is awesome though!) Compared to the original pitch of something that could play Tiny Knight as well as play pretty much every cartridge based game up to the Neo Geo!!!(with an adapter of course) As well as output through HDMI!! Like that sounds cool! like a Retron 5, but with hardware emulation rather than software, and more like a Retron 20!!!! The original idea actually has a purpose for being. I think the idea of just playing 16bit games for $40 bucks a game that you could play off Steam or PSN for $20 doesn't.
***** my Tiny Knight comment was because it is the only game that I know of that is exclusive to the VGS. As well as being one of the couple games that was available for purchase (i know it comes with the system) on the igg. I think there were 3 one being Gunlord which i have on Dreamcast and it's pretty Awesome imo! but since I already have it there is no reason for me to buy this system (and ppl like me). I think there were two other games you could buy, and a list of upcoming titles so I don't count those necessarily because some of those games the VGS ppl say will be on their system, and you go to the games webpage and there is no mention of it? Sounds like the Ng-dev team is on board though, and good call on that Kraut Buster game looks cool to me too!!! But I can probable get it on my dreamcast when it comes out. Again I was following this for a long time and the VGS team has said on several interviews, and comments on FB that there will be, "No dust cover". They claim that it would cost to much money to change the molds or something (idk anything about that so i will say it's true). They basically say the system comes with a game so you put that in there and no dust. lol. Can't argue that logic. I personally think a blank dust cover cart would be nice. maybe they will do that, or sell them and the first 100 will be see-through lol. As far as what the new VGS getting most of what they originally pitched could mean anything. Which feature will it loose idk. Should be the controller imo. lol I think it's an all, or nothing thing for me with this system. As a person that has a good amount of these retro systems including the dreamcast this system is pretty much unnecessary. I think you and I are a great example of why this is such a hard counsel to sell. You want nice 16bit games, and you are fine with that, and I want all the way up to Neo Geo. Both of us would probable be fine with playing the other persons kind of games when the title is right, but neither of us want to give up to much. You on money, and me on features. If VGS goes to far either way they risk alienate one of us, and by us I mean the gaming collective we are a part of.
+PK's Retro Reviews haha, thanks! I've been watching your videos ever since you were covering the Retron 5! It means a lot to me to get a compliment from you. And yes, Retro Land is similar to Imagination Land in the sense that you have to do a ritual to get there. I think to get to Retroland you have to burn $349, sing the intro to DuckTales and input the Konami code.
I did not know that, I am very flattered. I just recently found your channel around the time you reviewed a side by side comparison of the Retron 5 and The Super Retro Trio ( also a fantastic video btw).You do some really great work. That seems even more complicated than Imagination land haha I might be able to do the last 2 but I'll have to have someone else help me out on the first one . Keep up the great work :D
LOL! "Let me buy the shit! Leave that to me!" You're not the hero we deserve, but you're the hero that we need. Retro consoles. Just as bad of an idea as an Android based console. With the current consoles and especially PC embracing indie developers, they really don't have a place. Yacht Games is releasing a physical version of Shovel Knight. I would imagine if that is successful that other indie studios will follow suit. If that happens then we will have something better than what we had back in the day. BTW I absolutely love your channel. I can't believe that you're not more well known.
+OldsXCool Thank you for your compliments! Yeah, cashing in on the retro scene is a hard thing to do with a new piece of hardware. It's a group of people that embrace history and unique items, selling them something new doesn't work. The analogy I like to make (and should have included in the video) is people who collect classic Coca-Cola vending machines. There is a market of people who put a lot of money into that hobby, but if you think you can tap into it by selling them a new $30,000 vending machine branded "Retro-Cola" then you obviously don't understand them. Thanks again for your compliments, in my next video I'm going to take a look back at a successful gaming-hardware Kickstarter that might be one of the best I've ever seen!
+1300l hahaha, I always imagine that the moulds are cursed, kinda like a monkey's paw. He can wish for all sorts of things with them but it has dire consequences...
+StopDrop&Retro Those moulds did provide some booming business for Imagin Systems to produce dental imaging machines. He's riding the legacy of root canals. Seems appropriate too.
*OLD BROKEN ONES* That makes everything 10x worse. They couldn't use the unused, INTACT ones.....BUT THE OLD BROKEN ONES. Yeah, that's PERFECT for something that is being used for your teeth and mouth. PERF!
not quite. I saw an interview with the guy who made/owned them. They were working with that dental company on a device that looked very similar and offered the Jaguar design to them as a cheaper alternative and they decided to use that.
+jlebrech A lot of people recommend a solution like that and believe it or not, this console started out like that. Mike revealed that initially it was supposed to be really simple and based on the BeagleBoneBlack, which is a little micro computer similar to the Pi. Then they wanted an FPGA and whole bunch of other shit added on. With their next attempt they're going to go back to the more simple design.
+ThePbrook1967 We'll have to wait and see! The Indiegogo has been abandoned but is still live (because of the site's rules) and they want to relaunch (possibly on Kickstarter) when they have a working prototype.
FPGA you say? Why though? What is wrong with x86 or an ARM processor emulating old games? I get it if you want the true blast from the past FPGAs are a good choise but we're talking about new releases here so... Using expensive FPGAs you basically are going to have to create your own processor, instruction set, programming language, APIs and SDK to make games to it. That's enough work for a 100 people for a couple of years, depending how complex the system will be. You could just use cheaper ARM or x86 processors and you already have everything and a lot more on top. FPGAs are awesome but only when you use them in the right place. I know it's not truly 16 bit but you could make a game console out of stm32 micros for pennies. XD
We're getting to see this whole saga replayed all over again! Now it's called the Atari -box- VCS! Yes, _that_ Atari: ua-cam.com/video/ujKxVNEHVS0/v-deo.html Just as vaporware, just as scammy - but no Indiscamscam!
+Steve THERION hahaha. Yeah, one of the interesting things is that he actually got some of the molds for the CD unit, but not all of them so that's probably the only thing that stopped him from doing that too.
I'm going to drop a bombshell, but according to people that work in the game resell business, "only idiots buy cartridge games to play, they're for collectors, you can play the same roms for free on emulation, flawlessly. And since those cartridges are 20+ years old, you'll have a better experience via emulation." And I agree. If you're buying old plastic cartridges you're a sucker. Hell you could just buy an evercart
You're more of a sucker if you buy those carts for inflated prices when there are still working versions floating around at thrift marts. The only exception I can bring ARE those collectables that we know are rare. Hell, I have a lot of carts that still work and I don't plan on getting id of them but if I have a chance to just play the version on my computer or another newer consol, I'm fine with it. It means I don't have to dig out the old Genesis or whatever when I've misplaced the plug or whatever.
you know the guy who built the analogue NT he built the retro vgs console and it was all done and mike kennedy sacked him . There some post somewhere on atariage
+J o n a t h a n You have your facts messed up. The guy you're thinking of is Kevtris, who was not involved with the design of the NT in any way. But Kevtris did create the NES HDMI converter kit which Analogue used in their NT. He also did not design the Retro VGS in any way but was contracted to license his FPGA emulation cores to them. That plan fell though and he left the project. However, he has his own FPGA based console that he might bring to the market but he's doing his homework first, unlike the Retro VGS team.
16bit cod would just be a side scrolling game......this guy is crazy. He has a lot of heart and assbergers so he should write a book instead and let his deranged mind take over. would probably make good money
+Bamboori No, but the prizes are being distributed. After contacting some of the randomly selected winners, I found out they had trouble even finding the pitch video since they removed it from the front of their Indiegogo.
I think a console like this could work if.... - stayed at 8-16bit -low price - have some big names behind it (like SEGA*, NEC, Nintendo) -offer re-releases of beloved old games from multiple companies and new games *you know people would lose their shit if SEGA announce not just a new console but a new 8/16bit console
+daniel pepin SEGA fans would go crazy for that but SEGA also has their own pedigree and successful IPs, the Retro VGS does not have that. In fact, they're trying to copy the success of a company like SEGA and they believe crowdfunding will make it happen rather than their own hard work. All of your points are correct but they're easier said than done.
The Retro VGS team might have screwed themselves with the choices they've made, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. A new console specifically dedicated to retro style games would be pretty awesome! Not as a replacement or backlash to modern gaming, but rather as a "what if" in the direction of gaming. What if games weren't forced to change simply to meet the needs of a fickle market that wants to upscale visuals because "good graphics mean a superior game"? I would love to own a retro style console that would release NEW additions to the world of 8/16 bit! I think their project had a lot of heart, however, I think they thought they could satiate anticipation with blind hype, plus charging $300+ is just retarded! If they were smart, they would have started at $150, but I guess they got greedy
+Antnj81 Good point on the price but the issues with making this dream a reality are even greater. I agree it would be cool to live in a world when true 8 and 16 bit games get released but who is going to develop them?? The RVGS team won't, they just want to make the console, even Steve Woita won't commit to making games on it. Most indies can't afford to keep their games on a niche console. Every game console that has ever existed has lived and died by its exclusive first party games and the RVGS team is not willing to develop their own games. Maybe if a collection of well known indie game makers wanted to make their own exclusive console I would have more faith in it.
+Antnj81 I can totally see how high price came about. First they took a popular Android SoC, a RockChip. That realistically makes it a, let's say, 80$ system, with all the certifications etc but also with a very decent profit. But then they're adding hardware. They're adding dedicated electronics to boil down the output from the Android system to composite/S-Video. Then they're adding an FPGA for emulation cores. Then the FPGA needs its own video output, compete with HDMI path and switching on the HDMI-to-video downpath. So they're not making this shit up, they really painted themselves into a corner on the price and hardware promise department. Kevtris made a point that they should have probably gone for the biggest FPGA affordable, i mean that's just a couple dozen bucks give or take, but folded the complete HDMI->video processing onto it, but that's actually somewhat challenging. The prototype we see in John's video only has a CPLD to read out the ROM/Flash chips on the cartridges, otherwise it's like any Android device out there, minus an actual operating system which is left TBD. So what is the point? OUYA+Steam make for a decent combination of platforms to publish retro styled games on. On the other hand, Jaguar CD, NeoGeo CD and Dreamcast all enjoy current releases. And i never got what's supposed to be wrong with a CD for a physical release, i mean a well developed Dreamcast game needs only 4 seconds worth of load screen. Dreamcast mainboards won't die out for another 50 years (probably longer than any modern high-density electronics), and while optical drives will die, there are some replacements. Team is a mess, managers belittle the engineer and pitch multiple engineers, who are kept in the dark, against each other. Engineer doesn't trust the manager to be paid, and seems in mildly scammy mood himself, what with sniping for borderline invalid patents. As to being freed of confines of quality graphics and whatnot and fostering creativity.... well there is a platform and a scene. Not surprisingly, the platform is software-defined, exists as a VM, and has NES-like specs, but offers easier programmability. Now if i could remember how it's called... there's really hundreds of people making pretty cool stuff for it. I don't think such a platform could exist if confined to exotic hardware, especially to the need to manufacture physical cartridges. It must exist on the one piece of electronics every software developer needs, a PC.
Why couldn't they just use an already exisiting board like Raspberry Pi, then all they had to do would be to create a cartridge interface.. No reason to re-invent the wheel. Plenty of emulators running on 30 dollar machines.
True, but they wouldn't be able to sell it for $300+ that way, so they had to claim they were building a top tier system from the PCB up. Has they actually been funded though, I wouldn't have been surprised to see their vision morph into what you proposed.
Right, just seems like they went about this project all wrong. All those boards already exist, I was watching the review of a 5 dollar fully fuctional portable PSP clone from China. They shouldn't have any problems emulating whatever you want.
Well, at $150~$200 with carts at no more than $40 , it could have caught the attention (and money) of people seeking a "Video Game Vinyl"(please, do NOT give them this analogy), particularly if it just burst onto the scene a month before it's KICKSTARTER with a prototype and a few games already running on it, even if it still looked like the Jag. But alas, the weren't the people to get it done. Even Gamester81 has lost faith in them, and he's given them the closest thing to a 1st party game that they've got. If you love carts, just hope Nintendo's going that route over all digital with the NX...
+Legtendga V You are exactly right. Price is a huge issue that stops this thing from taking off no matter how hard they try to justify it. If they could sell it for $150-200 and sell $40 homebrew carts that were sold on other systems, then they could really fill a hole in the market and stabilize prices for homebrew carts. But why would they do that? That's too generous to their customers.
+StopDrop&Retro Welp, even they could see the writing on the wall this time. "It’s clear, in its current state the RETRO VGS Indiegogo campaign is dead in the water and thusly will be shut down early." "...we aren’t giving up and have made some adjustments to our hardware team, which includes the involvement of other hardware gurus who were part of our venture in the very beginning. We will also be lowering the price while maintaining most of the cool features you all want." facebook.com/RETROVGS/timeline/ Still probably not gonna hit $2,000,000, though.
if they wanna make money theres a much much easier solution fuck making a retro whatever make us a case give it cables and breakouts that will universaly support pi's and odroids and other sbcs like usb hdmi ect and some method for mounting a wide range of boards inside idk make a universal mount and sell us adapters to take the various boards use the proffits from this to build a prototype for your console s pcb when ready do a kickstarter of that finished prototype and then sell finished units and upgrade boards for those who already have bought your cases id give you 40 bucks for that case if it had breakouts for io and a 4 port hub any day
Man, it seems like the guys behind this are just boasting about their ideals, having a wank over their NES collection, and the sitting up there on stage waiting for approval. Slow down with the marketing, and actually make us something! Remember the Ouya? That was supposed to be the answer to indie games too.
So they wanted to compete with the retron? Seems a bit late to kickstart this kind of thing, given that there's already hundreds of Chinese products doing this
+GHOZT THA DMENTED Yeah, I heard the news last night. But it's not happening like that. Coleco is just a name owned by a branding company, I explained it in my Coleco Sonic review I did last year. So it's actually a guy who owns the name and is lending it to the Retro VGS team (probably for a cut of the profits). They're still going to Kickstarter, nothing else has changed, same bullshit they're just doing this as a PR stunt to try to cover up their past failure. Also some articles are saying it'll be ready in 2017.
Damn. Well glad I have a media center made out of an old xbox ...that has every acrade, nes, SNES, and genesis game made. And when I feel like playing a cart I'll plug in my retron 5 lol
+GHOZT THA DMENTED I've got a modded OG Xbox, I LOVE IT! I'm running CoinOps on it and it's so perfect. Plus, native 4 player support with Capcom beat em' ups makes the perfect party console. I can't agree on the Retron 5 though...
To be honest I got my 3ds because I was fuckin entranced by the cartridges. Smol but powerful, its kind of cheesy but it's a novelty that I fucking love I don't blame him for wanting cartridges, taking a block and inserting it it's a fantasy that u can get into really easily
IDK what I expected from someone wanting to literally make Atari Jaguar 2.0 with Gamestop Wii U gamepads.
Dude we miss you! We need some updates
Same here. Miss this guy
Oh, I can't wait to get mine! I hear it comes with authentic duct tape and super glue.
+"Gamers Bay" If you pledge enough, they'll even send you a PDF of the cardboard prelim board so you can make your own!
Found out its only using regular Chinese duct tape and not 3m ai cancelled my pre-order
@@Tolbat lol, this video is close to 7 years old now, and I've lost count as too how many of these Kickstarter console scams have happened since then. Its hilarious the crazy things people will do to make money. The irony they hollowed out the case for an Atari Jaguar, threw a piece of cardboard in it, then pushed it on the public as a worthwhile investment.
16bit call of duty and BioShock? this already exist on old java phones
Alexas i have Nokia e5 with the bioshock game. Its pretty good
Farcry 2 had a pretty much 16 bit java version on mobile phones.
I agree. Better off buying a Dell Inspiron for $200, a X-Box 360 controller, and get an emulator. Put individual games on a USB flash drive and pretend it's some radical cartridge. Or even use an SD card.
Haha, yeah that's actually a good idea, plus you don't have to use that crappy knock off WiiU controller. And hell, the USB stick idea is already being used by Indiebox!
Get the e1505 6400 with atix 1400 and add a T7600g CPU. Never look back.
The reason they never destroyed those molds is because it was an all purpose thing, and dental equipment fit in it.
Your exposé here should win best award for short documentary based on retro video game crowdfunding scams. I present you with the Palme d'or of the RVGS film festival. The other nominees were.. Nostalgia SH-IT Sizzle Reel, and Prototype Building In Your Kitchen 101. The competition was tough this year but you my friend win the grand prize.
+Andy Kaufman LOL!! I accept your award! As Mr. Kaufman would say, thankyouvedymuch!
That prototype in the kitchen should have gone back in the oven, it's not ready yet.
+Andy Kaufman LOL! Prototype building in your kitchen 101? That statement nailed it. I'm guessing this wasn't the impression the Retro VGS team was going for. Odd, because his magazine is outstanding.
Years later Blaze with the evercade vs pretty much did what Mike kept bullshitting about while Tommy Tallirico pulled a Mike Kennedy.
"...some kind of neverending Renaissance Fair(e)". Beyond brilliant! :-)
Speaking of collecting for a retro console you've never played before, I've recently gotten a Sega Master System, having never had much interest in it until recently. I happened to find a guy selling a kitted-out system with a bunch of accessories and complete games on Facebook, and decided to jump at it.
I'm an NES junkie going way back, but even with this early start to my collection, there are some tight games for the SMS. Choplifter is pretty intense, and Gangster Town for the light gun runs circles around Duck Hunt. I'm already combing eBay for the wealth of games they had in Europe.
Somehow, I don't think a tarted-up Atari Jaguar with Android tablet guts that isn't sure what it is, would accurately replicate this experience.
You have to play Aztec Adventure. Such an underrated SMS game.
Another recent SMS fan here, I'm having a lot of fun myself. I also got a Sega CD for christmas. And it's 100% lit fammm
20-30 year-olds say "lit fammm"?
Aw man, I just had a mental comparison between Mike K's Retroland and CWCville... That's sad.
+Agamemnon2 hahaha, you're not the only one! I too thought there were a lot of similarities to CWCville. I feel like Mike may be like a more semi-successful version of Chris Chan. I want the Retro VGS to get its own ED page, that would be the icing on the cake.
I like Mike and am a Retro magazine subscriber, but I have to agree with you on this one. I think the success of his magazine led him to a "make it and they will buy it" sense about the Retro VGS, and instead of using common business sense, he just tried to get a crowdfund started and figured the rest would take care of itself. We Retro nerds definitely use our hearts more than our heads when it comes to retro stuff, but we too have our limits, and Mike definitely found that limit with this. He can still make it succeed if he learns from his mistakes the next time.
+Retro Active I agree with you but while it does seem like they rushed into this and thought money would solve all of their problems there's no way that's the whole truth. They hyped this console for the better part of the year and still didn't have the specs locked down. And yes, we retro heads have been swindled before by sub-par products in the form of the Retron 5 or various retro themed controllers but the Retro VGS has to be one of the worst and most blatant.
+StopDrop&Retro Absolutely right is it not the whole truth, no, but this was still far from vaporware, don't you think? The reason I say this is Mike had been talking to developers (listen to his Colecovisions podcast), and Gamester81's Collectorvisions company already had dibs on the pack-in game, so there had to have been SOME basis for the hardware that was being developed, whether it was FPGA, emulation, SOC, or something we weren't aware of. I definitely think having a working prototype showing the pack-in game and some other type of cross-platform cartridge capability should have been established prior to the crowdfunding campaign. Oddly, as you showed on your other video, there was some sort of proof of concept prototype, and patents were allegedly pending, so possibly this all was just a bit premature? A case of bad timing perhaps?
+Retro Active Of course they never intended it to become vaporware, no creator wants that to happen, but the fact is that the project as its been shown has a HIGH likelihood of becoming vaporware even if it was funded, IMO. There is a timing issue that could be referred to as "premature" but a possibly more honest way of describing how everything went down is that their justification was simply "get the money." As you said, they figured everything would fall into place after the campaign was successful. I think Mike has every intention to make a console but there's no denying that he's more focused on raising the funds, the console will come later... IF it comes later, but by that point it's not longer his problem, it's your problem, his problems were over the day the funds came in.
StopDrop&Retro I see your point, and Indiegogo is somewhat notorious for this so I can see your concern. I can say this though, Mike has worked hard to build a reputation and I know he was hoping this would take him into the retro business full time, so if this became vaporware, he would be ostracized and blackballed from the retro community for good, and I guarantee you he knows this.
+Retro Active Well, I think you'll like the next episode I'm working on as I type this. You might be able to see it and get a different perspective for how the RVGS was marketed and its chances of succeeding in the market based on past experience. I've got to get back to work on the episode now!
Great stuff here. Retro Land is a wonderful way describe the what happened with the Retro VGS. This is one of the best videos on the subject that I have seen.
+Game Escape Thank you for your compliments! You also made some great parody videos too, I was laughing my ass off!! I recommend that everyone check them out. You have a talent for being in front of the camera, you should roll with it and keep it up!
Just as an aside, Atari was able to sell (apparently only some?) of the Jaguar molds to a dental camera company. Molds are ludicriously expensive to make, so no one is going to just up and destroy them if there's even a slight chance they can be resold to someone...like someone wanting to use them for a different console.
1:18 oh my god I remember going to that panel
In 2015 I was 13 years old and I didn't really know about indies and smaller companies. So when I was hearing them talk about this new console I was mindblown. Looking back at it now though it's a really dumb idea. Modern consoles now have a lot of indie games especially Nintendo with their Switch so I don't really have a need for a console only dedicated to indies.
Btw I've went to every GameOnExpo ever held (and GameOnExpo 2019 in a week) and after 2015 they didn't show up again.
Also as a side note I played one of the only demos for the system and it was just a windows program running an exe of a retro styled game.
@@Bro3256Films I thought it was some sort of retro game system. But only indie games? Who needs that when consolea do that already. *I wish it actually worked out, just differently.*
@@dotmatrixmoe yeah it's really stupid
@@Bro3256Films Yeah, it isn't that good... but it proves Atari isn't suspicious after all. They're trash! 🧐
Late reply is late but yeah, that is really dumb and squandering resources but I think they did that already knowing that the big publishers wouldn't want to release or even reproduce anything for this thing if it came out so they HAD to find a way to entice devs to make something for them. It sounds shifty as hell considering you can already do this for STEAM which even allows for more access to an audience.
I mean think about it; with STEAM you essentially just need your laptop and an account. You really don't have to own any console to have access to a large choice of games which shows you how far gaming as a whole have come. I mean, if you want SPECIFIC games, YES but STEAM has access to the libraries of so many publishers that you can play. I've got Jet Grind Radio, the Streets of Rage collection, Sonic Mania, A Hat in Time ect all through Steam. If you told kid me I would own all this shit on a single account, from different publishers that were once on seperate consoles, THAT would have blown MY mind and it still kinda does. But the plans for this 'system' would limit your audience since you're making the spects for that system SPECIFICALLY and if it doesn't work out? Yeah. It feels like a trap for young people to feel like they've made it big when they have their game on a 'real console' when it doesn't matter.
Didn't Cuphead get massive via digital first before it got physical copies? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Its dangerous when a con man starts nostalgia tripping
+PatrickCalvey1337 Mike should go full retro and ride into town on a covered wagon to be a true old-timey snake oil salesman.
My "Retroland" is a reality where consoles have globally provided for running games from PC-parallel media (optical/magnetic disks and magnetic tapes) since the Famicom Disk System in the high 8-bit era (Nintendo blundered by keeping it in Japan). Speaking of the Famicom Disk System, it wasn't as if nobody at all might have expected it to materialize. After all, even the Atari VCS/2600 uses a CPU mostly parallel to that used by the Apple II, which uses floppy disks to store data externally, and every major console of the low 8-bit era had official cartridges or peripherals which effectively converted it into an entry-level PC, the Bally Astrocade and Phillips/Magnavox Odyssey2 even being respectively intentionally marketed and designed as such (the Odyssey2 has remained, to this day, the only video game console to come with a full alphanumeric keyboard built in). In Europe, the technical first 16-bit console was essentially the Commodore Amiga PC of 1985, which used 12-bit color.
+Joseph Ruhf Maybe with Steam OS we'll get closer to that? I actually love the Magnavox Odyssey, I have one in its original box and I'll probably cover it next year!
+StopDrop&Retro The flawed idea behind the cartridge based consoles of the pre-128-bit era is that it is possible to not outright make a low-level PC when you are using processors which are mostly to totally compatible with PC processors and consumers will buy that the item is different from a PC just because a PC generally does not natively read EPROMs and it does. For example, the Atari 400/800 PC central hardware is cloned exactly in the Atari 5200 and yet the Atari 5200 appears never to have had official peripherals parallel to those available for the full-scale PCs, which makes no more sense in retrospect than it must have made at that time.
ok so Kennedy got the ok from hello kitty And William shatner likeness to be in that blow ad!?
Oh man I forgot about his cartridge obsession! I wonder what he thinks of the Nintendo Switch? Kinda...seems like everything he ever wanted.
Eh I'd say the Evercade VS fits better. Classic and indie games on a console that uses carts? It's basically the Retro vgs but real.
Can't wait to play skyrim on the retro vgs
As much as I love playing older games, this massive race to be as retro as possible has done a lot more harm to the gaming community than good. Sure, there have been some great games that have cashed in on those aesthetics but those are the EXCEPTION to the new rules a lot of 'devs' are trying to run with. They KNOW there is a massive nostalgia market and withing that market are people who will instantly jump on something simply because it LOOKS nostalgic despite not having anything else to offer in the form of playablity.
You know. That thing that people do when they start up the game in order to get from the start to the goal with entertainment thrown in as well. Does anyone else know about that?
I can say it started with shitty indie devs who thought any game that tried to emulate Atari graphics would bring them cash since anything above the MSPaint line art requires time and practice to create decent looking PIXEL ART that isn't just a Megaman recolor. I'mma be frank; I was born during AFTER the game crash when both Sega and Nintendo were changing things so by the time I was even OLD enough to start playing games I had no idea what the fuck an Atari was. All I knew was Sega and Nintendo and had I seen those graphics as a kid I would have thought Atari was the shittiest looking thing I had ever played. I was playing Sonic, Mario, Star Fox, ect. Why the fuck would I want to put that down to play a VERY EARLY version of Break Out? Because I was born in the late 80s? Because I'm one of those '80s/90s kids'?
Getting back on topic, I'm not trying to shit on older games. I'm just tired of people riding those memories in efforts to sell trash that does not work. It's really insulting not just to buyers but the people who MADE those early games because all it says to me is that they see those games not exactly for their fun but rather for their outside look and just how RETRO they can be in order to turn profit. Granted when those games were made they weren't trying to be anything other than marketable but for a whole different set of reasons. They looked that way not by CHOICE but rather due to the limitations at the time yet they made an impact. Things like this are working backwards to that; they're limiting themselves simply to pretend to be a product of that time and in most cases, such as this, they've set themselves up for failure thinking all of this would be 'easy'. It's not.
Even if I had know about this at the time it was being pitched, I wouldn't have backed it because I'm burnt out on 'backing' games and systems in this manner. I'm still a person who would rather wait until a FINAL PRODUCT is made and then test it than just throw my money out at a fucking pitch video with nothing to back it up. You know why I liked going to malls as a kid and standing at those shitty demo stations? BECAUSE I GOT A CHANCE TO PLAY THE FINAL PRODUCT AND SEE IT RIGHT THERE BEFORE I ASKED MY FAMILY FOR THE GOD DAMN GAME. DO you know why I liked going ton FRIENDS' houses to play games? Same reason as before. We're not getting those type of feelings anymore with this, ESPECIALLY if you don't frequent cons where they 'set up' prototypes like this. It's all so shady as fuck and the scale of success vs failure on some of these things is so unbalanced.
But in the end, even with as much as I have BITCHED about this old ass video, I don't think 'retro' is wholly BAD. I just hate the people who whore off it and miss the reasons why people enjoy those old games, art styles, and what not and then make the shittiest attempts to 'bring it back' and expect assloads of money just because. I have more respect for the person who takes the time to actually understand the art and CREATE something wonderful with it vs the person who just shits out a turd, sticks a 'retro' sticker on it and then acts like we pissed on their dead pet's grave because we didn't praise them as the next Miyamoto.
One like
Pier Solar will be available on an Invisible for $70. Only people who have paid admission to Retro Land can enter the parallel universe that is Retro Land where the game exists.
+InnovaX5 haha, geez I remember when Pier Solar was in the flash sale on PSN for like $7 or so. Geez, Mike & Co. don't have a clue about their market. But I guess they're learning as they go along.
+InnovaX5 Oh wow. Pier Solar. Has anybody played it? I mean cool, what a nice MegaDrive engine. If it wasn't trying to do so much lighting effects, it would have also not had obnoxious slowdowns and load times.
But hey, i'd say a bit of engine ambition is good. Arrogance is not, and arrogance is the only word that i can think of to describe this game's writing. Plus the gameplay ain't all that, but i would have forgiven it if the game wasn't so smug and arrogant all the time. Oh how much it loves its sub-par humour. How epic it thinks it is. Wow.
Aww, the Indiebox!! I was a subscriber for so long, I was so sad when the service was shut down :(
The only good thing about this disaster is that brought me to this awesome channel
I loved your video!! Thanks.
+Isocube Software Thanks! I appreciate your compliment!
That whole laptop and a controller statement made me subscribe...
+Farts McGee Thank you! Welcome! And yeah, I'm kinda ashamed to admit it but I've been getting a lot more playtime on my PC than original consoles right now. Not that I regret that time.
StopDrop&Retro
Cheers man, I really love your channel. You should pick up a JPD XD to give one of your great, full reviews of, maybe an Nvidia Shield portable and an old Xperia Play too.
The most wonderful thing about emulation to me, now more than ever, is that we can experience the games as they were never meant, and potentially much better. N64 without the smear, Wii games with the remote-waggle replaced with a button press, gamecube games at HD resolution, even VR support for some. Not to mention save states, and slow-mo and fast forward modes. I recently replayed Earthbound, FF6 and Chrono Trigger on my GPD G7, and without proper use of the fast forward I don't think I would of gotten through just FF6 in the same time.
Using a FPGA to emulate old systems is genius! However these guys have to be complete idiots.
1) Making the PCB layout is easy. A skilled EE can finish a layout like that in a week.
2) The maufacture of the PCB is easy. There are companies who maufacture the whole board (with components). Its super cheap and a common practice in electronics design.
The only hard task for the development of the system is the software. They have to configure the FPGA for all the different systems, thats alot of work. But they failed the tho easy tasks, so I dont think they will be able to do it!
doesn't it also take a long time to "rewrite" an FPGA chip? They seem to think it's as easy as swapping cartridges but I thought I heard it takes a while to boot a new core.
StopDrop&Retro
Yes, it takes some time to reconfigure the FPGA. But if they use a modern fpga and a smart design the time will be just a few seconds.
It takes literally seconds to reconfigure an FPGA. Not sure how they would swing the licenses for the games from other companies though.
FPGA based retro consoles are on the market now. They don't do a great job of explaining why they're better, but because I was a programmer on the old consoles back in the day I would guess that the advantage is LAG. The original consoles output a signal at a rate determined by the way CRTs worked and there was no lag between generating that signal and displaying it. Emulating that on a standard computer system means that there's probably at least a whole screen (60th of a second) lag between emulating that process and sending the output to your TV. Then, sadly, there may be another 60th of a second lag in the TV itself :( Yeah, there's no way in hell you're gonna make it through Ghosts and Goblins, Battle Toads or Contra with a 30th of a second lag.
Four years later (possibly earlier, but that's when it started surfacing at large) we got MiSTer, which is everything VGA promised, except it's real, available and open-source.
Love the Dr. Strangelove reference lol.
N.B. Indiegogo is fine for funding things like movies. Never back a gadget on IGG.
LoL a 16bit version of Bioshock. That I would love to see. the cart must be made of impossiblium. As we are gonna get made up elements before we will ever see a 16bit Bioshock. But I believe ActiBlizz would put CoD on it
tbh a CoD that’s not a PvP Gun Game would be real interesting.
At 8:16, did they get Kylie Minogues permission to use her image? Big lawsuit just there.
So, who gets the Jaguar molds now? I vote for Tesla for some Powerwall-related thing.
Pretty fitting that a trainwreck like this uses the case molding of a console that put the previous corporation out of business.
I was excited for this thing! This was going to be awesome!!!! It really stung to see this thing go up in flames. However, I have a genesis now, so I don’t care anymore.
This is great. I really had no idea how deluded Mike Kennedy is.
+FriendofSonic Thanks! And yes, it's kinda sad to see how unrealistic this project has become. I pledge to stupidly fun crowdfunding projects all the time (I should be showing off a retro handheld here in a few weeks!) but there's a line where the fun stops and things get seriously risky for the backers and I think the RVGS crossed that a long time ago.
+StopDrop&Retro You got a sub out of me!
+FriendofSonic Thanks! My next video will not be RVGS related, but I plan to have another RVGS themed episode this weekend!
$300 is insane. I almost didn't buy a retron 5 because it was half of that!
I guess I never thought about the cost of the console... insane!
+17R3W Yeah, I don't know why they thought doubling the price would go down well. They should have just kept quiet until they had running hardware, it seems to have been their biggest problem throughout the project.
It's so sad that this was the fate of the Atari Jaguar molds.
I think this could be cool for retro-style indie games, you could use flash memory to store it onto a cartridge and then have the console have very powerful ram, and cpu. But not like a great idea.
again.. amazing video, liked and sub
The Atari Jaguar was far ahead of its time, included a number of innovative elements, very powerful for its time yet underutilized, and could be considered the last of the great "super-consoles". He obviously pushed the Jaguar brand so much to ride on its coat tails.
well it was more of the fact that he got the molds. He would have done the same had he found the Sega Saturn molds.
StopDrop&Retro yeah, that's probably just it, and I was overthinking it.
never aim for a nitch in the market, you should always aim for a niche
This video is amazing.
+InnovaX5 Thanks! I've got more videos on the way. The next one is going to be about a successful gaming-hardware Kickstarter that might be one of the best products to ever come from that site!
I can't wait for that video. I'm so happy the RETRO VGS fiasco helped me find such awesome talent here on youtube. Awesome videos man, keep up the good work!
+InnovaX5 Right? I've been finding all kinds of good podcasts and blogs just by following this story.
And thank you for your compliments! I do not take them lightly!
Honestly, I consider it strange to want to go back to cartridges. You can still make a retro looking game on a CD. And it doesn't come at the cost of limited resources, data, or risking the game being messed up by dust.
We need a follow-up with the latest facts :)
+retrogamer1 Just made one today! ... FINALLY!!
Don`t they know the retro console already exists? It`s called Retro Freak and you can get for like 150 bucks on Amazon
you're right, but they wanted to make their own system that plays their own games, which happen to be Steam games. So a Steambox that uses cartridges.
super agree with how you say they are building it backwards!
They have said a few times how they have had difficulties getting the design in the jag shell. Yet it is a great thing they got it. Maybe they could have used that money to make a prototype instead. I would rather it just be in a see through plexiglass shell, or something. Then you can fit all the crap and out puts you want on it.
i personally don't even like the jag case. I'm remind of the jags failure every time I see the VGS
+zackery chapman I've actually taken a liking to the Jag case. It's so 90's neo-futuristic, like something you'd see in Starship Troopers. That being said though, I don't agree with them that they're supposedly passing those savings onto the consumer. And if their breakdown of the funds is any indication, they intended to live like heathens off the crowdfunding, so saving money was never a high priority.
Yea, to each there own. I think the Jag looks ok I guess, but it is missing a dust cover, and has a big hole in the back...? My point is more that when I look at the VGS I am going to think of the jaguar (i was prop in 5th grade when it came out). I understand some ppl through either lack of knowledge, or love from their parent. They may have owned this counsel, and care about it. To me it is one of the worst systems of all time. When you consider that it was made by Atari (kinda a big deal in the gaming community) to compete with things like the Sega, Snes, Nes, and Turbo Grafix. It's a joke. Plus a year or two after it came out there was the Playstation, and Sega Saturn to compete with! (i don't bring up 32x or 3DO because those are the other two worst systems imo.)
to me it's a questionable that they keep bringing up this Jaguar case crap. Like, "dude that system was a piece of shit." You think you are doing a good thing by keeping the Jag alive, or something?
that said it did look pretty bad ass in those see-through colors! lol
***** Yea i was following the vgs since Feb i think, and it just seems like the idea of what this system is/ is going to do has changed. like they are trying to appease their FB market. So much so that I wonder if they even know what they were really trying to sell. Which makes me think they just wanted to sell something, rather than sell me on something. So they are just going to get rid of all the features that made it worth buying to sell a $180 system that is basically a waist of money. So i can own my copy of Tiny Knight...? (Neodev is awesome though!)
Compared to the original pitch of something that could play Tiny Knight as well as play pretty much every cartridge based game up to the Neo Geo!!!(with an adapter of course) As well as output through HDMI!! Like that sounds cool! like a Retron 5, but with hardware emulation rather than software, and more like a Retron 20!!!!
The original idea actually has a purpose for being. I think the idea of just playing 16bit games for $40 bucks a game that you could play off Steam or PSN for $20 doesn't.
***** my Tiny Knight comment was because it is the only game that I know of that is exclusive to the VGS. As well as being one of the couple games that was available for purchase (i know it comes with the system) on the igg. I think there were 3 one being Gunlord which i have on Dreamcast and it's pretty Awesome imo! but since I already have it there is no reason for me to buy this system (and ppl like me). I think there were two other games you could buy, and a list of upcoming titles so I don't count those necessarily because some of those games the VGS ppl say will be on their system, and you go to the games webpage and there is no mention of it? Sounds like the Ng-dev team is on board though, and good call on that Kraut Buster game looks cool to me too!!! But I can probable get it on my dreamcast when it comes out.
Again I was following this for a long time and the VGS team has said on several interviews, and comments on FB that there will be, "No dust cover". They claim that it would cost to much money to change the molds or something (idk anything about that so i will say it's true). They basically say the system comes with a game so you put that in there and no dust. lol. Can't argue that logic. I personally think a blank dust cover cart would be nice. maybe they will do that, or sell them and the first 100 will be see-through lol. As far as what the new VGS getting most of what they originally pitched could mean anything. Which feature will it loose idk. Should be the controller imo. lol I think it's an all, or nothing thing for me with this system. As a person that has a good amount of these retro systems including the dreamcast this system is pretty much unnecessary.
I think you and I are a great example of why this is such a hard counsel to sell. You want nice 16bit games, and you are fine with that, and I want all the way up to Neo Geo. Both of us would probable be fine with playing the other persons kind of games when the title is right, but neither of us want to give up to much. You on money, and me on features. If VGS goes to far either way they risk alienate one of us, and by us I mean the gaming collective we are a part of.
Really great video dude. I'm very interested in this "Retro land" is it anything like South Park's "Imagination land" ?
+PK's Retro Reviews haha, thanks! I've been watching your videos ever since you were covering the Retron 5! It means a lot to me to get a compliment from you.
And yes, Retro Land is similar to Imagination Land in the sense that you have to do a ritual to get there. I think to get to Retroland you have to burn $349, sing the intro to DuckTales and input the Konami code.
I did not know that, I am very flattered. I just recently found your channel around the time you reviewed a side by side comparison of the Retron 5 and The Super Retro Trio ( also a fantastic video btw).You do some really great work. That seems even more complicated than Imagination land haha I might be able to do the last 2 but I'll have to have someone else help me out on the first one . Keep up the great work :D
LOL! "Let me buy the shit! Leave that to me!" You're not the hero we deserve, but you're the hero that we need.
Retro consoles. Just as bad of an idea as an Android based console. With the current consoles and especially PC embracing indie developers, they really don't have a place. Yacht Games is releasing a physical version of Shovel Knight. I would imagine if that is successful that other indie studios will follow suit. If that happens then we will have something better than what we had back in the day. BTW I absolutely love your channel. I can't believe that you're not more well known.
+OldsXCool Thank you for your compliments! Yeah, cashing in on the retro scene is a hard thing to do with a new piece of hardware. It's a group of people that embrace history and unique items, selling them something new doesn't work. The analogy I like to make (and should have included in the video) is people who collect classic Coca-Cola vending machines. There is a market of people who put a lot of money into that hobby, but if you think you can tap into it by selling them a new $30,000 vending machine branded "Retro-Cola" then you obviously don't understand them.
Thanks again for your compliments, in my next video I'm going to take a look back at a successful gaming-hardware Kickstarter that might be one of the best I've ever seen!
Good work.
Retroland? I think that that was the theme park from the Jimmy Neutron movie
Will you make an Amico video like this?
Kind of apropriate he got the jaguar molds
+1300l hahaha, I always imagine that the moulds are cursed, kinda like a monkey's paw. He can wish for all sorts of things with them but it has dire consequences...
+StopDrop&Retro Those moulds did provide some booming business for Imagin Systems to produce dental imaging machines. He's riding the legacy of root canals. Seems appropriate too.
Why cartridge comeback? Aren't they still way more expensive than,say discs,we cards ect.
So, who ended up getting the Jag molds?
the owner of AtariAge supposedly has them now. It's what we were told but I find it strange that they've never been heard of since.
Before this, they were being used for dental equipment if I recall.
not the molds but old broken ones were used for dental equipment
*OLD BROKEN ONES*
That makes everything 10x worse. They couldn't use the unused, INTACT ones.....BUT THE OLD BROKEN ONES.
Yeah, that's PERFECT for something that is being used for your teeth and mouth. PERF!
Super Cosmic Mutant Honey Candle Squid They were used for an X-ray machine. The Jag part went nowhere near your mouth.
the reason they didn't destroy the moulds is that they used them for dental equipment. So...
not quite. I saw an interview with the guy who made/owned them. They were working with that dental company on a device that looked very similar and offered the Jaguar design to them as a cheaper alternative and they decided to use that.
Ummm cuz they were used for dental,medical hardware weren't they?
It can’t be that hard to make a custom motherboard
they should have just crowd funded a game cartridge add on for raspberry pi
+jlebrech A lot of people recommend a solution like that and believe it or not, this console started out like that. Mike revealed that initially it was supposed to be really simple and based on the BeagleBoneBlack, which is a little micro computer similar to the Pi. Then they wanted an FPGA and whole bunch of other shit added on. With their next attempt they're going to go back to the more simple design.
I made my own game console with a Android phone and I got a Bluetooth controller and I use a SD card reader to load the games
I love the Dr. Strangelove reference.
Love the reference!
I would have at least built a working prototype before going to Kickstarter or Indiegogo and started the campaign . it's that simple .
"jerk like me" 😂
"Let me buy the shit"
Quit hogging all the shit. Send some to Ashens to make him sad.
I cannot wait for the final video, covering start to endgame. Remember, longer is better! :)
+Isocube Software Still working on it! Doing my research too so it's informative as well as entertaining!
Looking forward to it!!! Thanks :)
Some of us have lives and don't have time to surf net all day so I was pressing for someone to bring the proof... I see the post
OMG how long do I have to wait for the next video?? :D
+Isocube Software Sorry! I had to help someone this weekend but I hope to be done with the video pretty soon!
+StopDrop&Retro I'll go lie down until it hits, then! :)
Soooo is it ever coming out???
+ThePbrook1967 We'll have to wait and see! The Indiegogo has been abandoned but is still live (because of the site's rules) and they want to relaunch (possibly on Kickstarter) when they have a working prototype.
no
FPGA you say? Why though? What is wrong with x86 or an ARM processor emulating old games? I get it if you want the true blast from the past FPGAs are a good choise but we're talking about new releases here so... Using expensive FPGAs you basically are going to have to create your own processor, instruction set, programming language, APIs and SDK to make games to it. That's enough work for a 100 people for a couple of years, depending how complex the system will be. You could just use cheaper ARM or x86 processors and you already have everything and a lot more on top.
FPGAs are awesome but only when you use them in the right place. I know it's not truly 16 bit but you could make a game console out of stm32 micros for pennies. XD
We're getting to see this whole saga replayed all over again! Now it's called the Atari -box- VCS! Yes, _that_ Atari: ua-cam.com/video/ujKxVNEHVS0/v-deo.html
Just as vaporware, just as scammy - but no Indiscamscam!
Atari made a working prototype this year in a convention, where UA-camrs actually showed this off. *Sounds suspicious to me.*
Welcome to 1994
Atari introduces us the Jaguar with 32 bit (Do the Math)
wait a minute ... no CD Rom & we are on 2015.
#Fail
+Steve THERION hahaha. Yeah, one of the interesting things is that he actually got some of the molds for the CD unit, but not all of them so that's probably the only thing that stopped him from doing that too.
@Lassi Kinnunen Double grave dig, besides... it costs way more to produce cartridges. *Which is why they moved to CD-ROM in the first place!*
I'm going to drop a bombshell, but according to people that work in the game resell business, "only idiots buy cartridge games to play, they're for collectors, you can play the same roms for free on emulation, flawlessly. And since those cartridges are 20+ years old, you'll have a better experience via emulation." And I agree. If you're buying old plastic cartridges you're a sucker. Hell you could just buy an evercart
You're more of a sucker if you buy those carts for inflated prices when there are still working versions floating around at thrift marts. The only exception I can bring ARE those collectables that we know are rare. Hell, I have a lot of carts that still work and I don't plan on getting id of them but if I have a chance to just play the version on my computer or another newer consol, I'm fine with it. It means I don't have to dig out the old Genesis or whatever when I've misplaced the plug or whatever.
you know the guy who built the analogue NT he built the retro vgs console and it was all done and mike kennedy sacked him . There some post somewhere on atariage
+J o n a t h a n You have your facts messed up. The guy you're thinking of is Kevtris, who was not involved with the design of the NT in any way. But Kevtris did create the NES HDMI converter kit which Analogue used in their NT. He also did not design the Retro VGS in any way but was contracted to license his FPGA emulation cores to them. That plan fell though and he left the project. However, he has his own FPGA based console that he might bring to the market but he's doing his homework first, unlike the Retro VGS team.
Remember the good ol' days of alcoholing nes cartridges and blowing them like you owed it money?
7:00 what a game?
Yeah, the Retro VGS is a terrible idea, but recreating the pyramids, that could work.
how's moving a square around an old ass monitor supposed to show us it's a games machine?
16bit cod would just be a side scrolling game......this guy is crazy. He has a lot of heart and assbergers so he should write a book instead and let his deranged mind take over. would probably make good money
How hard it is to make a motherboard
Apparently harder than putting a video capture card in a Jaguar shell.
Uh, duh. Everyone knows the cartridge era didn't end with the 16-bit era. Did they even see the Jaguar? Do the math!
did anybody get a bingo? :D
+Bamboori No, but the prizes are being distributed. After contacting some of the randomly selected winners, I found out they had trouble even finding the pitch video since they removed it from the front of their Indiegogo.
MSI fan?
lmao this is the first time I have heard someone refer to yacht club games as a big player in the business
Game at 10:05?
Lovely Planet
I think a console like this could work if....
- stayed at 8-16bit
-low price
- have some big names behind it (like SEGA*, NEC, Nintendo)
-offer re-releases of beloved old games from multiple companies and new games
*you know people would lose their shit if SEGA announce not just a new console but a new 8/16bit console
+daniel pepin SEGA fans would go crazy for that but SEGA also has their own pedigree and successful IPs, the Retro VGS does not have that. In fact, they're trying to copy the success of a company like SEGA and they believe crowdfunding will make it happen rather than their own hard work. All of your points are correct but they're easier said than done.
Yeah without a lot of start up money and some name recognition it just wont work.
I said it before this is all part of Mikes evil plan of building a retro gaming business empire or as you call it Retro land
+TheRetrocade I think you're right. Check out my new video, I touch on this topic!
+StopDrop&Retro I'm using clips of John Carlsen in my latest Dig Dug NES video it will never get old
+TheRetrocade hahaha send me that video when it's done!
+StopDrop&Retro it's already up just go to my channel Dig Dug is in the NES Playlist
The Retro VGS team might have screwed themselves with the choices they've made, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. A new console specifically dedicated to retro style games would be pretty awesome! Not as a replacement or backlash to modern gaming, but rather as a "what if" in the direction of gaming. What if games weren't forced to change simply to meet the needs of a fickle market that wants to upscale visuals because "good graphics mean a superior game"?
I would love to own a retro style console that would release NEW additions to the world of 8/16 bit! I think their project had a lot of heart, however, I think they thought they could satiate anticipation with blind hype, plus charging $300+ is just retarded!
If they were smart, they would have started at $150, but I guess they got greedy
+Antnj81 Good point on the price but the issues with making this dream a reality are even greater. I agree it would be cool to live in a world when true 8 and 16 bit games get released but who is going to develop them?? The RVGS team won't, they just want to make the console, even Steve Woita won't commit to making games on it. Most indies can't afford to keep their games on a niche console. Every game console that has ever existed has lived and died by its exclusive first party games and the RVGS team is not willing to develop their own games. Maybe if a collection of well known indie game makers wanted to make their own exclusive console I would have more faith in it.
+Antnj81 I can totally see how high price came about.
First they took a popular Android SoC, a RockChip. That realistically makes it a, let's say, 80$ system, with all the certifications etc but also with a very decent profit. But then they're adding hardware.
They're adding dedicated electronics to boil down the output from the Android system to composite/S-Video. Then they're adding an FPGA for emulation cores. Then the FPGA needs its own video output, compete with HDMI path and switching on the HDMI-to-video downpath. So they're not making this shit up, they really painted themselves into a corner on the price and hardware promise department. Kevtris made a point that they should have probably gone for the biggest FPGA affordable, i mean that's just a couple dozen bucks give or take, but folded the complete HDMI->video processing onto it, but that's actually somewhat challenging. The prototype we see in John's video only has a CPLD to read out the ROM/Flash chips on the cartridges, otherwise it's like any Android device out there, minus an actual operating system which is left TBD.
So what is the point? OUYA+Steam make for a decent combination of platforms to publish retro styled games on. On the other hand, Jaguar CD, NeoGeo CD and Dreamcast all enjoy current releases. And i never got what's supposed to be wrong with a CD for a physical release, i mean a well developed Dreamcast game needs only 4 seconds worth of load screen. Dreamcast mainboards won't die out for another 50 years (probably longer than any modern high-density electronics), and while optical drives will die, there are some replacements.
Team is a mess, managers belittle the engineer and pitch multiple engineers, who are kept in the dark, against each other. Engineer doesn't trust the manager to be paid, and seems in mildly scammy mood himself, what with sniping for borderline invalid patents.
As to being freed of confines of quality graphics and whatnot and fostering creativity.... well there is a platform and a scene. Not surprisingly, the platform is software-defined, exists as a VM, and has NES-like specs, but offers easier programmability. Now if i could remember how it's called... there's really hundreds of people making pretty cool stuff for it. I don't think such a platform could exist if confined to exotic hardware, especially to the need to manufacture physical cartridges. It must exist on the one piece of electronics every software developer needs, a PC.
It's not a PCB. it's a Motherboard just like any Motherboards in PC Towers. Laptops. Xbox. PS4 or any Devices.
Why couldn't they just use an already exisiting board like Raspberry Pi, then all they had to do would be to create a cartridge interface.. No reason to re-invent the wheel. Plenty of emulators running on 30 dollar machines.
True, but they wouldn't be able to sell it for $300+ that way, so they had to claim they were building a top tier system from the PCB up. Has they actually been funded though, I wouldn't have been surprised to see their vision morph into what you proposed.
Right, just seems like they went about this project all wrong. All those boards already exist, I was watching the review of a 5 dollar fully fuctional portable PSP clone from China. They shouldn't have any problems emulating whatever you want.
8:15 Yes plz! O wait you mean the shitty non-existent console not Kylie. No thanks.
Well, at $150~$200 with carts at no more than $40 , it could have caught the attention (and money) of people seeking a "Video Game Vinyl"(please, do NOT give them this analogy), particularly if it just burst onto the scene a month before it's KICKSTARTER with a prototype and a few games already running on it, even if it still looked like the Jag.
But alas, the weren't the people to get it done. Even Gamester81 has lost faith in them, and he's given them the closest thing to a 1st party game that they've got.
If you love carts, just hope Nintendo's going that route over all digital with the NX...
+Legtendga V You are exactly right. Price is a huge issue that stops this thing from taking off no matter how hard they try to justify it. If they could sell it for $150-200 and sell $40 homebrew carts that were sold on other systems, then they could really fill a hole in the market and stabilize prices for homebrew carts. But why would they do that? That's too generous to their customers.
+StopDrop&Retro Welp, even they could see the writing on the wall this time.
"It’s clear, in its current state the RETRO VGS Indiegogo campaign is dead in the water and thusly will be shut down early."
"...we aren’t giving up and have made some adjustments to our hardware team, which includes the involvement of other hardware gurus who were part of our venture in the very beginning. We will also be lowering the price while maintaining most of the cool features you all want."
facebook.com/RETROVGS/timeline/
Still probably not gonna hit $2,000,000, though.
if they wanna make money theres a much much easier solution fuck making a retro whatever make us a case give it cables and breakouts that will universaly support pi's and odroids and other sbcs like usb hdmi ect and some method for mounting a wide range of boards inside idk make a universal mount and sell us adapters to take the various boards use the proffits from this to build a prototype for your console s pcb when ready do a kickstarter of that finished prototype and then sell finished units and upgrade boards for those who already have bought your cases id give you 40 bucks for that case if it had breakouts for io and a 4 port hub any day
You seriously own Sneek 'n Peak? That game,...
Where i could buy atari jaguar
Lol the system apparently comes with some cheap repainted Chinese wiiu pro controllers. Makes sense
Man, it seems like the guys behind this are just boasting about their ideals, having a wank over their NES collection, and the sitting up there on stage waiting for approval. Slow down with the marketing, and actually make us something! Remember the Ouya? That was supposed to be the answer to indie games too.
did it come out out or did get cancelled?
So they wanted to compete with the retron? Seems a bit late to kickstart this kind of thing, given that there's already hundreds of Chinese products doing this
Coleco has bought the rights and rebranded it the Chameleon. To be released in 2016
+GHOZT THA DMENTED Yeah, I heard the news last night. But it's not happening like that. Coleco is just a name owned by a branding company, I explained it in my Coleco Sonic review I did last year. So it's actually a guy who owns the name and is lending it to the Retro VGS team (probably for a cut of the profits). They're still going to Kickstarter, nothing else has changed, same bullshit they're just doing this as a PR stunt to try to cover up their past failure. Also some articles are saying it'll be ready in 2017.
Damn. Well glad I have a media center made out of an old xbox ...that has every acrade, nes, SNES, and genesis game made. And when I feel like playing a cart I'll plug in my retron 5 lol
+GHOZT THA DMENTED I've got a modded OG Xbox, I LOVE IT! I'm running CoinOps on it and it's so perfect. Plus, native 4 player support with Capcom beat em' ups makes the perfect party console. I can't agree on the Retron 5 though...
To be honest I got my 3ds because I was fuckin entranced by the cartridges. Smol but powerful, its kind of cheesy but it's a novelty that I fucking love I don't blame him for wanting cartridges, taking a block and inserting it it's a fantasy that u can get into really easily