So Good It Changed Mercedes' Future BUT Not In A Good Way - Mercedes R129 500SL
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- Опубліковано 18 чер 2023
- The R129 SL 500 was the first Mercedes to combine cutting edge technology with the legendary Mercedes build quality. It was so good that it changed Mercedes' priorities for their future cars and led to the terrible problems the company faced in the late 90s and early 2000s with quality and rust.
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Can’t see any Tesla’s being around in 30 years .We should be encouraged to own cars like old Mercedes
Only time will tell, with Tesla & longevity
You will. No.
Teslas are a very bad car IMO but not for the reasons usually given. They are very much a product where the user has to conform to the requirements of the product and not something built as a tool for the driver and passengers.
Examples. You never own it. The software that runs the car is sold to the original user. When the car is sold the software isn't!
It has appalling ergonomics. Just try crawling in and out if your getting old or pregnant!
No roof. Just glass. Terrible for a hot climate
Energy inefficient... yep they are stupid heavy
@@rosewood1 it's a computer that runs on its own really.
Teslas are a ball of shite
The comment about MB did not have a history of cutting edge technology but superior build quality, I would argue that MB did both well for a long time. One point, as a example, in MB's history was the 1950's 300 SL. First fuel injection, first direct port fuel injection (beat everyone else by around 50 years or so), very aero dynamically clean, early adaptor of independent rear suspension (though it had issues), early adaptor of disk brakes (the later 300 SL roadsters in the early '60's). It was at the time a high water mark for how technology can be applied to a car sold to the general public. And is still considered to be an icon.
There's also the ABS and airbags on the S-class/SE which predated a lot of competitors as well in the late seventies, early eighties.
Blah, blah blah ..... all I know is that we just need to look at the S class to see what tech gonna end up in all cars in the future
@@TheChill001 Electronic ABS perhaps, but the first production car with ABS was by Jensen. As for airbags, you can take your pick of (mainly US) makes adopting them from the early Seventies on.
I disagree strongly with the video, as a long-term owner of many classic Mercedes. The R109 was so advanced as to provide rollover protection within the frame of the windshield anytime that it was anticipated that convertibles would have to be phased out because of anticipated rollover protection requirements which didn't come to fruition. The w126 cars were many years ahead in offering standard passive restraints (ABS), traction control, belt pretensioners and advanced crumple zones and state-of-the-art aerodynamics. The w124 cabriolet featured headrest which automatically deployed to protect occupants in a rollover, glass rear window and much more also years ahead of the R129 and other competitors. The R129 is a spectacular automobile which built on the prior amazing technologies pioneered by MB. MB simply did not indulge in trendy gimmicks favored by the Japanese which I say as a true fan of classic JDM autos as well.
I was at the mille miglia a few years ago as it passed through Reggie Emilia. It's a fantastic opportunity to see period cars doing something they were made for, not just on parade or in a museum. In comparison to all other cars, the full wing is like seeing a spaceship. It's uncanny.
I took a irresponsible loan out for one when I was 22 ( 9 years ago) a bright red 1995 SL320. Daily drove it for 3 years and was pretty hard on it regularly and the only thing that ever went wrong was corroded fuses that caused some weird faults, replaced the fuses for almost no £ and it was perfect. Such a strong reliable car. Always regretted selling it
Damn, where did you get a loan for a 19 year old car? Here in the US most lenders won't write a car loan on anything over 10 years old. Nor would a 22 year old be able to easily get a loan for cash. I know because I've tried. 😂
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure the R129 is the last Mercedes where the engineers and designers made a car and then the retail price was calculated after. Every Mercedes since has been designed to a set target price, hence the difference in quality.
The styling is spot on too. Timeless classic.
I've had my R129 since 2007. It's a 98 SL500. It had 54,000 miles when I bought it. It currently has almost 180,000 miles. It's been very reliable and if you're looking for one make sure the top works. The top cylinders are prone to leaking. 93 to 95 cars came with the biodegradable wiring harness. The sweet spot in my opinion as far as the V8s are concerned is 96 to 98. They come equipped with the M119 32 valve V8 as well as the 5 speed transmission. 90 to 95 models are rated at 320 hp vs 315 for 96 to 98 but came with the 4 speed transmission. 99 and up models are equipped with the M113 24 valve engine rated at 305 hp. The V12 version comes with a hydraulic suspension which is the reason I opted for the V8 although I've heard several owners stating that they are fairly reliable.
I had a 96 SL500 on Ruby red only had 58.000 miles when I picked it up. Stunning condition but didn't drive it enough, partly because it was so clean, and I also preferred an analogue sports car. So I traded it for a 996 Carrera 4 S manual. I do miss the 129 though especially now it's Summer. I agree that the 96-98 was overall the sweet spot, especially if it's the M119.
My S500 V8 has been equipped with SLS hydraulic suspension. Super expensive to replace but I’ve heard they last for a long time.
Interior is way better in the 93-95 cars, just replace the wiring harness, a somewhat knowledgeable person can do it in a day, maybe 2. It costs a lot to pay someone to do it otherwise, but even if you do it’s worth it, the original interior was designed by Bruno Sacco (the car’s designer) and is much better built, and fits the cars more understated nature perfectly, the updated interior is just gaudy cheap plastic with ugly door panels etc etc etc, if you like that it’s totally fine we’re allowed to have different tastes but personally I wouldn’t buy a post 95 R129 because of its interior, once you start really looking at it it’s hard to go back…
@@oceanlives4915just get a low milage Sl500, fix the roof, and or the wiring harness (one is most likely already fixed) and you have a beautiful car with an intoxicating V8
nice car but I don't know if I want a 30 year old car, even if it's well built, it's 30 years old, wiring, rust, electrical, parts, I dunno sounds like a lot of potential troubles, maybe I would keep mine if I had one already tough
I’ve had two of these cars in recent years. They are so much fun! Insanely cheap if the top stops working, as both of mine were. Takes about a minute to manually drop the top. I did it for years. The cars were just rough enough I never spent the time or money to sort the top. Felt like someone special in both though. The first one was a “92, silver with blue interior and top. Top was shot, torn seats, and had sat for 3 years. Purchased it for $500 bucks. Drug it home, gas and battery. Started right up. Drove it for a year. Something killed it (electrical). Recycled it for $300. Next was much better. Black with grey lower cladding, black interior. Paid 3k. Drove it for a year. It was my daily. I have a travel job and didn’t flinch taking it on 600 mile weekly trips. On the way home a few weeks ago a semi was passing me and a motorcycle. We were in the slow lane going 70. Semi got past the motorcycle and forgot I was next to him. He hit my rear drives quarter at 70! A pit maneuver on me, spun out in front of him and did 2 doughnuts in the median before stopping. It deployed the roll bar but I stayed planted. These cars are like a brick! Drove the car home (huge dents down the side). Insurance totaled it for $13,580! Sad to see it go. I hope to find another elderly owned cheapy.
MB not historically cutting-edge in terms of technology? They were ahead of the curve on practically everything, which is why they were an aspirational, premium brand for so many decades. A W124 with the right engine (2.8) & spec in the right condition, is at "30" still superior to many "new" cars.
You know this still has porcelain fuses, right? When all "lesser" brands were already using knife fuses.
@@tocsa120ls - You mean those cheaply made pieces of plastic junk that constantly fail in a fuse-box where you can't easily access the contacts for maintenance? Yes...1000x better than porcelain & copper fuses which are still currently available & still manufactured in Germany to a superior standard -- in a perfectly designed & located fuse-box that could equally be fitted to a Tank... 😂
The W124 300D isn´t bad either and very reliable!
@@tocsa120lsboth still blow with same current draw 🤷♂️
Which is why he said "since"
I believe the first car to have a fully automatic convertible, where all you had to do was push a button, was the 1957 Ford Fairlane 500 Skyliner. Lincoln then had a fully automatic mechanism in the late 50s and early 60s.
Indeed!
My 2003 Mercedes S430 was absolutely perfect for 11 years and 180,000 miles. I only changed a suspension control arm because the car had a squeak going down a curb/driveway! Show me a Better more Reliable Mercedes than that! Or Forever be in WANKERVILLE with English made POS! I might mention the paint look like brand new. I did keep Maguires wax on it, and the interior was flawless after that many miles!
Those clocks were and still are amazing, the style, the font. 129 aging really well, just like 124.
Absolutely love R129!
Had the chance to drive it with the straight 6 as 300SL as well as the 500 and the V12 600… and ended up nearly buying the 300 used.
Sadly my pockets where a bit to empty as they still are, but the 300 is perfect enough as an everyday car for doing everything except transporting passengers 😇
Would still love one❤
@SkysaxonDragonslayer. Still my dream classic (classic '80's styling, modern and reliable enough to use daily if you wanted, and just plain cool), and I hope to get one someday (closer to retirement) - the budget doesn't stretch that far at the moment (good ones are circa $30k here in Australia...so about 12 months ago I bought a '93 Ford Fairlane for just over $5k, to scratch that modern classic itch, but one day I'll get an R129 if I'm able). Cheers!
@@phillipevans9414if your going to get one get a 93-95 (best engine setup and the original interior not the updated ugly version.
I’ve had one of these for 5 years - and I love it. Understated, effortless, utterly reliable, easy to drive for miles and so comfortable.
I’m the original owner of a year 2000 SL500. It was built to order instead of taking one off the lot to get exactly the options we wanted. Cost nearly $100,000 out the door at the time. Only has 50,000 miles on it now and in mint condition. Am disappointed at how much it has depreciated. This would be a great time to buy one now. As always, I suggest paying a little more to get the one in best condition and get it thoroughly inspected before purchase. Some used ones no longer have the hard top. The hard top totally changes the driving experience; much quieter, no cloudy rear window, and has rear window defrost if needed. I got a roll-around rack (plus cover) for the hard top to store it on when not in use. Only complaint is that at 5’10” my legs are almost too long for the driver’s seat and when in the passenger seat they become cramped. To be comfortable in the passenger seat on long trips I have to take my shoes off. A cool feature of the seat belt being integrated with the seat is that the shoulder attachment point moves up and down in tandem with the head restraint so the seat belt doesn’t cross over the neck of short people (such as my wife).
The Pinnacle for me was the W124, with the straight 6. Quite sophisticated for the time and MB quality hadn't slipped too much. The only antiquated thing was the steering box, but even that was beautifully weighted and better than most modern cars.
I preferred it to the R129. The W126 and C107 (450slc) I had later were wonderful but really did feel their age.
... except the 300E-24. That had issues Mercedes couldn't solve.
@@u.e.u.e. I owned a 300E-24 Sportline and found the engine pretty bullet-proof. Just minor issues and moisture in the distributor, and that infuriating ignition unit.
Driving up in the power band, the 24v engine produced a glorious sound.
It's not bizarre to have electric rearview mirror. It makes perfect sense together with the memory seats. If every part of your seat is adjusted automatically from the memory you don't want to manually adjust the mirrors. :)
It's mentioned that the A/C rotary knobs are so simple and works so well. When I was troubleshooting an A/C issue in one of these 500SLs I was really surprised when I pulled that A/C unit out. There is an LCD display on the top to show you the fault codes.
Of course it;'s bizarre. How many cars can you think of prior to and since then that have it?
So much sense that nobody assumes it would be so.
@@gottliebdee263 I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future, cars have an adaptive rear view mirror which you simply look at and it automatically adjusts for you.
@@michaelhughes3302 I always found it is very difficult to adjust a mirror...
I am not totally convinced by the electric rear view mirror - my 129 SL didn’t have one and that switch looks like the adjuster for the door mirrors to me.
@@Eastbarn1 Only the very first R129 have this as an option.
I recall Mercedes stating the roof bar pops up in 100th second. Regarding the W210- thats when the accountants took over. From my personal experience, the bodies rusted so badly. It was the first time Mercedes used water based paint and didn't galvanise. They also sourced cheap steel. I learnt one thing: always buy a Mercedes built in Germany.
The problem with the water based paint was the bacteria developing in the bath….
Cars wich run through a fresh bath didn’t had theses rust problems…
It took years to find the issue what causes this rust problem and so the W210 and especially water based paint got a bad reputation…
Water based paints ain’t bad and as durable as any other paint when used right!
There's another way of looking at this. The 500 SL was a hard act to follow. Mercedes had trouble doing just that.
This *could* have affected Lamborghini post-Miura ... after all, how do you follow an act like the Miura, that was way ahead of its time, and drop dead gorgeous to boot? Lamborghini luckily escaped that trap when Marcello Gandini came up with the body style for the Countach, and by doing so, opened up an unexpected new niche for Lamborghini - namely, building fantasy road going spaceships.
It's indicative of the position Mercedes was occupying, that at the end of the 1980s, they brought out a monster 6 litre V12 S-Class that was, in effect, a German land yacht. But it was a German land yacht that *worked* .It delivered a car that was 80% of a Rolls-Royce for 50% of the money. They also brought out the 500 SL you've just driven. They were in the business of luxury, and if said luxury also went quickly, so much the better.
I suspect a part of the malaise that befell Mercedes say, post 1997, was grounded in an attempt to steal some of BMW's "Ultimate Driving Machine" market, along with the malign effects of travelling at least partly down the infamous road of building down to a price instead of up to a specification. Hints of something going *badly* wrong became apparent, of course, when the first incarnation of the A-Class became infamous for rolling on its side if you cornered too quickly, where "too quickly" was synonymous with "faster than your great grandma in a wheelchair".
By changing direction the way they did, they also lost their hold on a certain category of customer - namely, that category of customer who, when looking for a replacement car, would *only* consider a Mercedes-Benz. Of which there were a significant enough number at the time, to build a solid business upon. That demographic is now rather smaller than MB would like.
If instead, MB had brought that "hewn from solid granite" build quality to other car sectors, they could have scored even without another 500 SL halo car to offer. For those who understand long term planning, buying a car that is 50% more expensive than the competition, but which lasts four times longer and costs less maintenance wise because it breaks down far less often, pays in the long run. And means you're more likely to go to MB for a similar replacement when your current one *does* finally reach the end of its useful life.
But of course, longevity is anathema to today's brand of capitalism.
Still a great looking car today!
The R129 is one of my favorite cars. There is something about the way that it looks that draws me in. Jack, I like the fact that you qualified the intended purpose for it. If not, many vehicles would seem poorly designed.
the 129 was built when engineers were in charge, today finance and sales are in charge, so they will never come back to the good old days!!
Funny thing happened here in the United States. Cadillac made its own 2 seat luxury convertible with bodies flown in from Italy and up to date features. They made a guarantee to new owners that it would not depreciate as fast as the R107. I think they planned for the new R129 to drive prices down on the R107. The opposite happened. US buyers didn't really warm to the R129 at all. The prices for 107s went up and the unsold R107 560SL in dealer stock brought a premium over sticker. GM didn't do well on that guarantee. Here in the states, the R129 still isn't desirable enough for even moderate prices. R107s still command good money.
Mercedes never cutting edge in technology?, they must have been the most innovative car maker in history in terms of technology
Ever heard of Lancia, Saab or Citroen ? Mercedes never had great suspension design, steering boxes, bakes. Their road holding was sketchy (as was the case for BMW and Volvo) and comfort remained quite ferm while still managing to display copious amount of body roll (except for the pneumatic 600 and 300SE).
They were well build cars but no technological masterpiece.
When has ever mercedes done impressive things? The gearboxes faar behind (even in the 2000s), the engines was probaly one of the least powerfull in it's class. Same goes with tech, they where werry late on it. The chassi has never been anything to write home about.
BUT, they used to be built to an extreem, the engines usually just went, witch really should be expeected from the lousy power they made.
I will definitely will buy one today. Those were the real Benz. Heavy,slick stylish and durable not plastic engine of today
Yay a SL500! I have a '99 one as a daily. I'm trying to keep it up in shape, but I will say it's pretty robust! Convertible top gave me the most issues I would say.
As far as performances, I'd say the car is pretty tame for daily driving. I never really scared myself, and I pretty much never floor it - but I don't really need to.
those are psycho fast when driven like a mad man, I deleted the cats on mine too, great sound. Miss my r129, had to sell it though while the time was right to get my r230!
I too daily the SL500, thing has a bulletproof engine, only complaint is how hard it is to find parts for it these days. Fyi, This this is FAST. Goes 0-100kmh in like 4,5seconds, I have taken it to around 220kmh, and the engine was only at 3k RPM, no doubts this thing could reach 290 Plus Kmh - and at these speeds, absolutely ZERo shaking/wobbling/loudness
I loved the R129 SL500 I had around the turn of the century, which I used to commute to work exactly 40 miles into the center of Boston from a distant suburb at 5AM with the top down on summer days. My record time was 27 minutes from my home to the garage in an office building downtown. Those who know the traffic (lighter back then) close to the city will understand the speed that required in the early part of the trip through the hinterlands. That car was the most comfortable I've owned for high speeds.
we have two C-Class cars which have held up well. My W 203 was built after the summer holidays in 2007 and consequently went through the first galvanic dipping of that series which was phased out later that year. My son´s S 204 (essentially a W 204 station wagon) was built three months later and is still around as well but all companies go through the cycles you describe of trying to harvest rave reviews from well-engineered products and then having to suffer the back room bean counters cheapening down on build quality...(it certainly happened to Porsche as well during the era of Peter Schutz) ...
A major point you're missing is that Lexus coming out shook Mercedes to their core.
In an effort to compete with Lexus they started to cut costs, evidently at the expense of the quality of the cars.
Yet people still flock to buy them, such is the power of brand image. This can be applied to other things too, take Apple and their interference with customers phones for instance.
I live in Italy, and for every Lexus sedan you will find 1,000 Mercedes. Including my C219.
@@dm5374 did you know that the Toyota Corolla is the world's most produced car with over 40 million made since it's introduction, and that Lexus and Toyota consistently top reliability indexes?
@@rob5944 Of course I know that. And I recently rented a ES 350 hybrid in the States which I liked to the point of considering a purchase. When I discovered its abysmal resale value in Italy I decided to stick with my Merc.
@@dm5374 that's surprising. I suspect that Honda, Toyota and Hyundai etc tend to dominate the Middle and Far East whereas BMW, VW and Mercedes sell better in Europe and China. As far as quality goes I think that the German brands are dining out on past reputations, however even the Japanese manufacturers are cutting costs with the inevitable result. Our little Peugeot 108 (a defacto Toyota Aygo) is obviously built to a very, very strict budget and it shows, both in terms of finish and longevity. But hey, that's the world we live in, nothing lasts anymore!
Best car out there..I daily drive my 1993 500 SL
year round, in snowstorms ( handles great in snow) rain, summer and hard sun. It can do allmost anything. You can drive it to Monte Carlo casino, and come in elegant style, the other day go to the golftrack, you can easy throw 2 golfbags in the trunk, (wich modern convertible car can manage that?!) next day go shopping to construction market an fit in long woodboards 😂…yes I did that!…
Thx for a great review👍🏻
R 129 for ever 😁❤️
Great review! 96 to 98 are the best model years to buy because you get the M119 engine and a 5 speed auto gear box. No wiring issues either.
No just no… The gearing is hardly worth it, the first 4 are all still the same ratios, and the interior is WAY worse, much cheaper and uglier. The wiring harness is blown way out of proportion, it takes a competent person a day or maybe 2. Best years are 93-95 (none Bosch fuel injection, so better gas mileage than the early cars) with the good interior and the M119 that you mentioned, because while the 113 is great, it’s just nowhere near the m119 in terms of fun (although better in terms of reliability)
@@griffins750 It is worth it to me. I would much rather have the 5 speed. Better gas mileage and it kicks down immediately. Plus it weighs 54 pounds less and has 40% fewer parts. My personal preference is for the updated interior and I would rather not have to deal with wiring harness issues so 96 to 98 are the years to go for in my opinion.
My 96 SL500 had deteriorated wires. The only ones that failed were the 3 coaxial wires to the knock sensors and the CPS. I ran them in the same loom the old ones were in without removing the dead ones Used aircraft grade coax. Rest of the wires are shiny (Teflon?) ,flexible, non cracking ins. Been PERFECT since!
Had a 1992 500SL for 16 years and no wiring or soft roof folding issues
Fabulous car
I remember the release video of these. Mercedes 500SL “The Best or Nothing!”
I think you right, but not quite in the way I thought. The SL, W/C/V124 are both beautifully made, almost hewn from Granite. But I think that Mercedes were more interested in market share over everything, and cost cutting appeared in subsequent models such as the W202 C-Class. the W210, and then their lowest point, the W168 first gen A-Class and the Elk test. They took their eye off the ball and lost what MB was all about. It has taken them to get back to the reputation of the R129 and W124, but even now, questions are being asked about the current 2.0 4-cyl reliability used in most models.
W124 hewn from granite? The first Models were so bad, Taxi drivers protested in cologne in front of the Mercedes location. The later ones than had the rust problems caused by bacterias. But mechanical wise they are robust, just like the W123.
@@heroesofthelandstrasse The complaints were not really of the seriousness we would think of today though. One was that the railings to collect rainwater on the roof were minimized so could drop on the seat when opening the door. For example.
W124 reputation built up later,part of that has to do with people longing for the simplicity in the older cars.I remember reading some car magazine from 1988 and the owner of W124 was suprised there was already rust in the car.Also,one car magazine reporter didn´t find anything particularly good in W124,just overpriced.I owned one once,and it´s a nice,beautiful car,but W210 is better in every way.except rust resistance.
@@matsujarvinen There were many things that were particularly good in the w124 compared to any other car in that segment at the time.
@@matsujarvinen My Avantgarde 1998 E430 W210 has no rust anywhere ? No salt on the roads here in New Zealand may help. Still looks new in dark metallic green with 128,000km .
has the biodegradable wiring harness. I expect that they don't degrade as quickly in the UK where the weather is cooler.
If you hated the R107 for its ride, you probably owned a bad one or did not fix it properly. They ride great if you use OE quality bushings and shocks. It's easy to put sub standard parts on them because there are lots of sub standard parts available.
I should comment that I own a 1991 500SL up front, which I've owned since 2005. Everything on this video is true, and a nice favourable video on the R129. With regard to running costs, find a good independent and its not too bad. The only observation I'd make is that a number of parts are unique to the car - for example, my wiper motor failed a few years ago. Now - at the same time I owned an E Class too - which shared its motor with other models, so a replacement was £12. The R129 was for that model only, and was about 8 or 9 times the price. At speed, I have not driven much to compare the comfort and refinement of the R129 - it was designed to cross countries with minimal fuss or drama. If you can find a decent, well looked after example, then I don't think you could go wrong.
Firstly, since its inception, Mercedes Benz, and before that Daimler and Benz were always ahead of their time in terms of technology, and this continued through each decade up till and after this R129. I don't need to go into specifics as most will know of all of MB innovations which always become mainstream after 10 years or so.
Secondly this car does not have a multitude of ECUs, it was one ECU thats all. The later 5 G tronic 722.6 also has a TCU, but not the 4G tronic in the car you're driving .
The springs of the car are soft but the damping is relatively firm, this is why the ride is soft but not bouncy.
The M119 DOHC V8 has VVT on the intake cams, when flat out performs best in the mid and upper rev ranges.
The biodegradable wiring loom was not on first set of cars, but came on the second run from 92.5- 95.5.
The only thing that tends to go wrong with the roof is with age the hydraulic cylinders tend to leak past the seals, otherwise the roof mechanism is very reliable.
Its ashame you didn't do more research before making this video.
R129 My favourite Mercedes model
4:30 Austin-Healey!
I’ve had R129SL 500 since 2009. The car drives today as good as it did when it came out of the factory and I have put nearly 80,000 miles on it a magnificent car it is built properly and as you say very easy to drive I wouldn’t want to replace it with anything.
I have also had a 1999 W202 C4 3AMG estate. this was a magnificent car and I wish I’d never sold it but like you say they started to rust because the underseal was done cheaply this is the downfall of Mercedes Benz from about this point onwards.
I also have a C 63S Estate which is also a magnificent car however it is nowhere near as robust as my previous cars , The retractable luggage cover has failed and Mercedes want nearly 1000 to fix it this should last the life of the car. the interior plastic is soft and marks easily the paint is not as good as the other cars it looks great but it is almost like it is built on a House of Cards my favourite car is the R129. I definitely feel they are now living on past glory. it is a huge shame because Mercedes were a brand which was equal in my opinion to Bentley and Rolls-Royce in terms of build quality and reliability but not so now.
I had an R129 a few years ago. Lovely but fragile roof electrical issues. I still look at them now with temptation. Maybe another one at some point.
I’ll remember all my life, in 95 I was in the army in Paris, and a cool guy offered me to try exactly the same one, it was a car of a friend of a friend gone on holidays … and the little spin I made in Paris with no traffic was a blast… so powerful and comfortable, diabolical super efficient breaking system compared to my Mini Park Lane…. Back then 😂😂😂😂😅 and better handling than the XJS of the same period….
Great balanced review Jack of what can still be regarded as a very nice car. The sound quality of your videos is perfect. Great work.
Beautiful and simple.
Yes, I think you are right. I own a 1998 CLK 320 and despite to be somewhat expensive for its size and status in the Mercedes range (back then) you can feel that it is build much cheaper than the previous cars. One of the signs of cheapness is the 90° V6 (not really bad, but the former IL R6 would be nicer), another one is the low quality plastic inside, another one the rust factor (not on mine so much, thankfully). They really did put much of technology in it, but it was done with the heart of an accountant.
the w208 CLK was a real low point in terms of the quality of the paint and the corrosion resistance. Being based on the C Class the and priced between that and and E class, it would of course have a cheaper interior than something like an R129. Dont forget in 1996 a new SL500 was £79,000, which is about £140 grand in today's money!
A new CLK cabrio was about £30-40 K for the 4-6 cylinder models I think,
@@ahemgee9542 That's roughly what I said, I was not surprised to find cheap materials on the inside. A SL 320 (V6) was at 138.500 DM in 1998, my CLK 320 (V6) had a sticker price of 83.000 DM (incl. leather, ac auto etc.). The CLK 320 cabrio was stickered with 90.500 DM in 1998 (no extras).
I have a newer SL550 and I can say that it makes me smile every time I drive it. Heated and cooled seats, air suspension, plenty of power, the top goes up and down without issue. There's even a seat massage feature in case your back is sore. I'm away on business about every two weeks and after driving a rental car for two weeks to a month I usually can't wait to get home to this silly little car. I've had Vettes, BMW, Jeeps, and Porches but this little car for me is the complete package. I simply love it.
Me too, have a 2011 SL550, had a r129 for almost 10yrs!
I do like these videos but I worked at Mercedes-Benz through the 1980s/1990s/early 2000s and I have to say this time he has got some things wrong. If any car caused an effort to lower costs (and quality) it was the fantastic W140 S-Class introduced in 1991. Mercedes kept on pioneering new technology even when the quality was questionable. They were also pioneers in recycling. In the 1980s we were told never to say that the glovebox interiors were made from recycled materials as customers might think it affected the quality! Probably the most important Mercedes invention was the safety crumple zone which other manufacturers were allowed to use. The R129 SL is one of my all time favourites and I bought one recently. It has been totally reliable. Buy one while they are still a bargain!
Beautiful car and a stunning piece of engineering
I think that something else that happed at Daimler Benz was that the engineers who used to control the company were pushed out and the accountants took over. The engineers had focused on reliable, high quality and very safe cars, and had established the MB reputation, something very justifiable. At one point, MB was number 1 in customer satisfaction, and a 10-yea- old MB had the same reliability at a 6-month-old Holden (GM's Australian car). They were innovative in very many ways, but tended to go for safe and conservative ahead of fast and flashy, most of the time. Every now and again the engineers would let their hair down, however!
But the accountants decided that profits were all that mattered and they could cut quality and the like, while selling on the brand name alone. And MB slipped to number 18 in customer satisfaction, and the people who work on up-market cars would regularly talk about how far down they had come.
I have owned 1999 320 SINCE 2016, THE ROOF WENT AS SOON AS i BOUGHT IT AND BOTH WINDOW REGULATORS WENT - APART FROM THAT ITS BEEN NORMAL STUFF TYRES AND BRAKES AND SERVICING. I LOVE IT, NOT A DAILY DRIVER BUT COULD BE AND GREAT FOR LONG WEEKENDS AWAY. ITS NOT A SPORTS CAR IT IS A GRAND TOURER AND IF YOU GET THE OCCASSIONAL BILL THAT HAS TO BE EXPECTED. PROBABLY THE BEST CAR MERCEDES BUILT AND BEST IN CLASS FROM ANYONE. STILL TURNS HEADS AND DRAWS ADMIRING COMMENTS - AND IS JUST SO CLASSY TO OWN.
Marnie's dad had one, still remember ogling it in 1991, still a car to be seen in.
Yes!!! I remember that as well!!
Great analysis, spot on.
I love my r129 had it nearly 20 years . I have owned a r107 r230 r231 none of which are still with me .
Mercedes Benz and the rest of automotive industry.....this is the best way to put it. Greetings from Jamaica 🇯🇲
I enjoyed that Jack, keep up the great work buddy 👍
It might have been the first M-B with seatbelts in the seats but the first car was the original Range Rover launched on 30 June 1970...nearly 19 years earlier!
I know, as I have one!
Pretty fair observations on the 129 Jack although the key element omitted from your piece is the disastrous merger with Chrysler in 1998…that was the start of the very slippery slope regarding quality. I’ve a 129 (SL500 from 1996 with 6,000m from new) and a 107 (300SL from 1989 with 70,000m) and the small gap of 7 years shows the shortcomings of the former when it comes to ride comfort etc compared to the latter.
Chrysler didnt have anything to do with MB:s cars. The decline started before that. MB buying Chrysler was more of a symptom.
@@martinsvensson6884 I think if you’ve shelled out $36bn to acquire Chrysler in 98 and it tanks from the get-go then accountants will soon be busting everyone’s balls to reduce costs etc and quality was a casualty
Something else to think about Mercedes ( Like for example Sony ) made a high quality innovated pricey product that was worth the extra $ because it was better than the competition. As the lower brands increased quality / features the added cost of a Mercedes / Sony product didn't being enough value to the transaction. Mercedes had to do something in order to survive.
Love the interiors on 90's Mercedes. They may be as close to perfect as any cars have ever been regarding the appearances and functionality of interiors.
Superb car. Nice video Jack
Awesome car. Nice video. Keep up the good work.
You could argue the R230 that came after the 129 solved all the problems you mention and had lots of cutting edge tech, maybe too much.
I love the simple dash etc layout. I much prefer that to the space shuttle cabin of todays car cabins. I'm an old fart.
And wheel-arches. Love it.
You are spot on with your veiw, and the timing for Lexus at that time was perfect.
I have a 96 v8 one. Love it. Got mine in 2007 and have driven it almost every day since upkeep is reasonable but have got some big ticket items coming up but will try and space them out over next 2 years.
Quite many people say that THIS was the last REAL Merc…. and I don’t disagree!
Amazing video review! I felt like I was driving it myself!
On another note and at the other end of the car spectrum, could you review a Mini R55 (failing that an R56) Cooper S? 😊
I owned a V8 W124 for many years, one of the best cars I ever owned❤️
My son drives/LOVES his 92 ,400E..But my 96 SL500 kicks his butt!
Speaking as the owner and driver of a '92 500SL I can tell you that no one but no one knows how to fix 1990's "cutting edge" tech. They have all retired and thrown out their diagnostics. MB see these cars as a pain and are doing their best to stop selling parts. At the moment we are in that gap between manufacturer support and the aftermarket stepping in and taking over.
Have to disagree that Mercedes were not cutting edge. Usually what happened was the S-Class introduced a new innovation, then lesser Mercedes models followed along with other manufacturers.
The reason Mercedes went downhill in the 1990s and 2000s, is because the accountants got involved and cut quality and costs e.g. rustproofing.
I bought mine as a 50th birthday present for me, i am now 72, its a 1990 R129 300-24 SL, AND the build quality is so much better than my W212 E class. Dare i say they are such a sexy looking car and for that reason my wife told me i couldn't take it to Thailand where i had retired. Now back in the UK due Brexit killing the pound stone dead.
I'm not sure MB focussed on tech over quality because of this car, I remember they announced a change in strategy that they would build to a price rather than engineer the car and then price it. They were feeling the pinch from BMW who had been taking more market share from them because of the price differential and MB thought this would make them more competitive. Ironically BMW began improving their engineering at the same time and the 2 brands could be considered to have switched positions during the 90's/00's. I remember discussing this with my father at the time who drove MB's and we agreed it was a poor decision, and the subsequent MB's he drove proved the point.
Enjoy the R129 so much we own and daily drive 3 different SLs....I-6, V-8 and V-12 in Detroit aka The MotorCity. Enjoy your reviews!
W124 (any series of it , diesel or petrol) is an absolute Unit! ❤
I remember seeing one of these on the cover of some automotive magazine when I was a young teenager. Up until then, I was only interested in American muscle cars. Standing there in the grocery store aisle, I was like "What's that...."?
What I appreciate about the car is its looks (and I have the SL600). It is the unmistakably masculine. My wife and I don't refer to it as pretty or elegant. Handsome is the word we use rather than just the tiresome term "Teutonic" (another word for "form follows function"). It's the enduring quality of its character.
Thanks for the phantastic video.
This Car when i saw it on presentantion in 89‘ was the car i would have to own one day,and i was making this dream coming true.
i enjoyed it for more than 20 years and loved it.
here you see the series one model,in my opinion the most beautiful one.
I would not argue that this was the car which changed Mercedes' priorities. The S class definitely was the one. Over $1 billion in R&D (at the time, not adjusted for inflation), and it ended up not netting as much profit as they had hoped. So the lead/chief engineer overseeing the W140 was let go from the company. The build quality is far superior to the R129 in every regard (fit, finish, and NVH), even though they were in a very similar price range. Not being a snob, because I love my R129 and how over-engineered it is. But I would blame the S class.
Funny that you dislike the accelerator, I love the pedal stiffness! It grows on you after a while. I can have a heavy foot with it, and I don’t need to focus so much on being gentle like on most cars.
Great video and great car, cheers!
You used to always see one of these cars orphaned in the back of a Mercedes dealership.
the Steering Wheel!!!! The Steering wheel!!!!!!! It was awesome!!!!! The visual depth!
I would suggest testing another R129 with the ADS system. I have an 280 without and a 500 with. The ride quality is totally different. And when the ADS is setup right, it really does make a difference on twisty roads.
Great review! Somehow this feels very much like the test routes from Harry’s Garage (though I’ve never been there)
At some point Mercedes stopped making cars and started making pimpmobiles. I haven't pinpointed the exact moment, but we all know it's true.
This car is still such good looking car.
Rare to See a 500 without air conditioning
Great review and I agree with your praise for this car - the equivalent S class at the time was the W140 which again was full of technology (double glazing, soft close doors, CANBUS wiring) built like a tank and lovely and relaxing to drive. I don't think the build quality has improved since those cars...... although performance and economy clearly have.
It truly was a well built machine. Not like the ones today.
Great Video.
The Ford Thunderbird and Fairlane had fully automated convertible roofs.
I had a 1995 SL600 around 2005 with this same color scheme. The build quality was fantastic and the engine was a gem, but it was just BORING to drive. This dash/center console area never felt like being in a sports car, either. The E36 M3 i had after was a distinct step down in quality but I have many more fond memories of actually DRIVING it.
man, the 600 you did not even enjoy? I had a 2000 500 that was awesome to drive fast, yeah it had no paddle shifters or sport drive but it got the job done, a Benz V8 always rules.
Thanks for that very interesting take on Mercedes changing quality standards over the years. My impression from looking at various recent car reliability/quality surveys is that that build quality can still be an issue even with more recent models (and not only from Mercedes!). One suspects that most modern car manufacturers have decided that their cars should last for the duration of their warranty - and that they should not spend money “over engineering“ their cars to last much longer than that!
Yep, make the car and THEN, set the price!
These were always a desirable car, even though it's not my type of vehicle. Undeniably one of Mercedes best cars.
Love the channel Jack. You seem like a decent bloke. G'day from Australia 🦘
Well reasoned as ever Jack - agree on all counts
Modern car design could take a lesson from this dashboard. Simple easy to read dials, tactile switches clearly identifiable and in intuitive locations. I jumped into a Tesla the other day and was crying with frustration at the level of difficulty operating that car.
We have a 1992 SL which was then called 500SL in a baby blue colour with some staggered AMG monoblock wheels from an E55.
Its been so reliable and with the wollowy ness i found that replacing the shocks and having the right tyres made a big difference but like said in the video the steering doesn't have alot of feedback at all.
Have both the R129 and R230 SL500's and the general thinking is that the R129 was the last Merc that was designed, produced and then priced to sell accordingly. Subsequent Mercs had their eventual selling price determined beforehand and then designed and produced. The knob you refer to isn't for the rear view mirror, that's self dimming but not electrically adjustable, it's for the mirrors. Good article, but there was an engine change through its lifecycle. Ended up with a vvt 32 valve quad cam, which was used by Merc as the basis for their endurance racer I believe.
Early 129 and 140 had electrically adjustable interior mirrors linked to memory. That and many other features were removed from production through the run to reduce cost. 129 started with a dual cam, vvt v8 and ended with a single cam, non vvt v8.
That knob is for adjusting the outside mirrors and also the interior rear view mirror I have a 1993 500sl in beryl blue fabulous looking car and mine adjusts by that knob for a 30 year old car it is a fantastic drive would never buy a new car classic Mercedes are the best 😊😊
The first generation cars had a motorised rear view mirror (possibly with memory function - not sure, mine is a 1998) the door mirrors are adjusted with the switch turned to either the left or the right and the centre position controlled the rear view mirror. On later cars (post 1996 I believe) the switch only goes into 2 positions and the rear view mirror is manually adjusted.
I bought one 25 years ago in Houston…and drove it back up the coast to Vancouver, British Columbia. The car is wonderful, quick enough and easy to handle. There is, however, one thing that I barely survived. The seats for this drive were literally capable of rendering you disabled for life. It was not much more than a days drive, and I, a late 30 something, was honestly, crawling out of the car every time I picked up gas. I am being honest, there were a couple of times I was on my knees….doing deep back exercises..and could not get in the car for at least 30 minutes. (I had no back problems at the time). The seats were simply excruciating for that length of a drive. A quick blast to Starbucks…even to the movies….but I warn you…don’t even think about driving this beautiful car more than a 100 miles at a time…or you are likely to be saying hello to your chiropractor.
Thanks for enjoyable video. As someone who’s owned various mercs I 💯 agree with your points regarding Mercedes dropping the “engineering quality” ball from late 90s. Moreover with their over reliance on unreliable (often overindulgent) technology + cheap plastic parts and systems (eg a Nissan Note remote key), I wish they would reclaim their proud engineering prowess. Thanks and God bless.
Try the R129 final Edition and you will be even more surprised. They're state of the art just like the W126 Coupe designed by Bruno Sacco timeless beautiful perfect machines. One never wants to stop driving them in good shape with many smiles along the way!
I already want one of these cars. I'm afraid to watch your video as it may push me over the edge and pull the trigger.
The one and only Benz, to this day, actually looking good for its time.
The best is a C124..
The problem with the SL is that it feels very small and you don't have a nice view of the hood with star..
A C124 is therefore worth much more
As a Queenslander living in Brisbane I’m loving the English summer gear!
Great MB!
Mercedes did indeed try to do some big cost cutting in the 90's and early 2000. Things like the original A class were horrid with lots of plastic .yes you have to take into account that German laws came in on cars been re-cycled . My German brother in law hated how cheaply built those cars were and it cost Mercedes big time .they did a U turn I have driven a few of the newer Merc's like most modern cars there is now a lot of plastics used. But they drive well the layout is good of course now with the fully glass cocpits displays it feels more like Star Trek than a old Merc. I was also once driven around in a S Class now they are something else. Though I still like the classic's like the 190E and those big old Grills and built like a tank quality . Thanks again for a good upload.
Sit in a brand new SL and then tell me Mercedes don’t make a quality car. The fit finish and materials they use now are on another level.
Havent been in the new SL but all the other recent models I've sat in have had horrible build quality feel compared to the old cars... Looks flashy at a distance but as soon as you touch anything its like a cheap toy.