Why 2 Strokes Will NEVER Disappear!
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- People say 2 Strokes have disappeared, but we say Two Strokes will never die...and this is why! in 2022 Red Bull Motorsports uploaded a UA-cam video called 'What happened to 2 Strokes' telling the story of how 4 Stroke machines came to dominate the dirt bike world, implying that two-strokes had disappeared from the sport in the process. But we couldn't disagree with that sentiment more fiercely. This is our response to that Red Bull film, this is our love letter to two stroke motocross...
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This video features a bunch of footage from the 999lazer archives including the content from VMXDN Foxhill, Glen Helen World Vets, our 500cc BRC projects, our 700cc Megalodon project and much more. Subscribe now if you want to see more 2 Stroke MX videos from us in the future.
Its true their wil always be fans of 2 strokes
Thanks for watching:)
I rode a 2 stroke in the 70s and 80s. Then a big 4 stroke in the late 90s. Left the US for 11 years and rode a 200 4 stroke some. After getting back to the states and getting life squared away. I bought a 250 2 stroke. It's ridiculous in the power hard to ride on a trail. But man I LOVE that bike. I'm old now. I want smiles per mile and it delivers big time!!!!
BINGO !!
Hard to beat the rush of a finely tuned 2 stroke 😊
Im a Gen Z Guy I started on a KX 100 at 14, then years later I worked and saved up got me a 23 TC125 Heritage Edition at 20 years old.
Ridden 4 Strokes but never owned them.
I know the 23s are not traditional Carb, Jett, Kickstart but it is the Luxuries I paid for anyways.
Still keeping the Two Stroke Dream Alive. 🤟
Now if I can just get my hands on a truck…
Once again thank you Max!
It isn't a matter of IF but WHEN the head on your four stroke goes Boom. Add $2000+ to the cost of the rebuild. Two strokes are far more economical to run and rebuild. I sold my four strokes but kept the CR125 and CR250.
Exactly mate. And anybody can do the work themselves on a 2 stroke. 4 strokes a lot more complicated to work on
Priceless Garage, my Second Oldest Brother sold his 1999 CR250 😔
As someone who does karting with a mild interest in Motocross, I can say for certain, two-stroke’s are never dying. We’ve had a few four stroke classes over the years, and, they’ve all failed horrendously everyone runs back to good old 125cc or 100cc two strokes after giving the four strokes a go, because they’re just better handling, lighter, more fun, and quicker. The only classes that I can think of that we have four strokes racing in are Honda cadets and prokarts, and the Honda cadets are dying quick. Everyone in karting just hates four strokes, as they just don’t drive anywhere near as fun, and we will always, for the foreseeable future, continue to use and develop two strokes, which will subsequently help you lads with your two strokes in motocross :)
I used to enjoy racing pro karts. We did 6-hour endurance in them and they were kind of a laugh. Of course compared to a 125 shifter they were nothing to write home about but they were still more fun than sitting at home.
I did run a 250cc shifter of my friends for a few laps (a couple of sessions actually) once though and that thing was completely mental. Nearly 130mph on a fairly short track and 4 wheel brakes that I wasn't reall used to. Absolutely off its face. Brilliant fun and made the pro karts seem boring after.
If 4t's are so great why do they still need a massive capacity advantage even with an extra ~20+ years of development?
First off I LOVE 2T have a 19 yz250x. But your comment is not true today they with some work a 250 4T can match hp of a 250 2T and the 450 can match hp of a 500 2T. But to do that at twice if not more RPMs of a 2T and they are highly stressed motors. So they are not going to last as long. And cost twice as much to fix or rebuild, I have had both and a 2T will always out turn a 4T and put a BIGGER SMILE on your face!
@@leonrawls892 2T's don't rev at twice the rpm though. Infact they usually rev lower.
Again though you're comparing a 250 4T with decades of development then mods against a 30-year old design 2T stock.
That makes the 4T look pretty pathetic really but then when you mess with the 2T it goes even more one way.
A good video;
ua-cam.com/video/2tlRpp-ClIU/v-deo.html
So thats a lightly massaged 250 doing 50hp wheel. Its also doing it well under 10krpm with a peak around 9000rpm. I'm not seeing a 4T anywhere close to that unless they are on a one-run dyno freak tune thats going to blow any minute.
Stock for stock the 2T is a good 10hp more and in the power band its got a massive torque and spread advantage too. With it still being a lighter bike.
Thats why 4T 250's have to run with 2T 125's and like I said if you look at how close that 2T is to the 80's/early 90's version there is a lot left on the table.
There is no 4 stroke that can bet a methanol breathing 2 stroke.
Team Green's Baja race KX500s were surprisingly stock, made 70+/- hp and would do 118mph all day long.
@@leonrawls892you are correct.. except HP four stroke don't match two stroke HP even today. And torgue is wey behind...
I’m 30 years old in the market for my first bike and best believe it will be a 125 2 stroke. The simplicity, sounds, smells, and fun factor cannot be matched. I’m sure adjusting to the power band will take some time, and I’m excited for it all
Gear up(helmet, boots, goggles, etc.) and have fun! Use discipline and progression will happen as experience increases. Good luck. 🤙
Long live the two-stroke sound.
I was working as a motorcycle journalist in my 20s and early 30s (I am 39 now). I have ridden many, many 4strokes and only a few 2strokes. If I ever buy a dirtbike, no matter if it is an enduro or a motocross, it will 100% be a 2stroke. The handling, the sound, the feeling. Nothing beats a 2stroke.
As someone that ride for 20 year this year , rode both 2 and 4 strokes , there something more tangible as a feeling listening ti a 2 stroke
Like watching my recording you can close youre eyes and feel it just that little bit easier
Yesss! Long live 2 strokes!! I love the sound of them bulletproof big bores! There’s nothing better than a 2 smoker. Glad to see you guys keeping them alive.
Great video Max, the sound of a two stroke any day , listening to you're passion for them and hearing them scream , bring back the great memories of riding them and regret of selling it, I miss my RM, and as you said parts were cheap to replace, cheers Max.
Well done, Max! Big props to your team for fueling the passion.
From the late 60s till the late 1990s have our dear beloved 2 stroke dirtbikes dominated the scene..I was so fortunate to have grown up in this generation to a racing family..and we all here in Australia as sure as hell NOT going to switch over to 4T and electric kitchen utensil sounding machines any time soon in our lives.
I remember the sound of two-stroke engines cutting their way through the thick Southwick fog while the experts were on the gate waiting for practice to start. That sweet smell of burning pre-mix wafting through the air and then BOOM! Nothing but forty two-strokes red-lining around the deep Southwick sand while guys like Jojo Keller, Joe Waddington, Wemys Scott, Dave Rudnicki, Badger, Pat Barton, Todd Richotte and a guy named Doug Henry would navigate their bikes almost like ships in the ocean through the deep sand trying to keep the bikes in line without wandering while simultaneously trying to up the speed. The best part is when you'd see twenty guys hit the same corner, railing all the way through it with the RPMs completely maxed out. You could smell the pipes burning on the 125s from being pegged all the way around the track, but nothing beat that sound of frantic 80s and 125s along with those earth shaking 250s and 500s. I had no idea that I was so lucky to have had the opportunity to be there, but the memories will last me to my final day.
Holy yappatron
@@TheGuyWhoAsked72 I guess you'd have to have been there.
@@stkyfngrszmoothyeah
2 strokes forever, I run a 92 KX 250 with a ProCircuit pipe 😀.Max I think you may be surprised in your final question as I think in 20 years or so from now there are going to be quite a few people at the tracks drooling over somebody's mint early model YZF or KXF or RMZ, I'm a vehicle restorer by trade and the nostalgia cycle of "ooh I had one of those when i was a lad" runs on a 25 - 30 year cycle 😀.
You’ve got a point haven’t riden in three years been out twice on my Sxf 450 muddy both times hard work so I’ve went bought a yz125 forgot how light and fun they are
awesome, I love my YZ1125 :)
Awesome video Max!!! You’re a big part of keeping them alive and well
max u are the man and i hope u know ur a big part of keeping them alive! love watching as always and this one felt emotional lol
Cheers, Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for keeping the big bores alive too :)
Quality video Max. Right balance of tech, opinion, anecdotes. Loved it 😊
I fully respect 4 banger tech and performance, but when it is about the journey and not the destination (or how fast you get there) focusing…. Focusing and picking the best line to keep your 2 stroke OTP makes for an absorbing experience. Visceral and tactile.
Head says 4 but heart will always be with a screaming 2 ❤
At 60 years old I still ride my 125 2t,,!!! Long live the mixture and the carburetor, greetings from Spain.
Hey lazer... 2 strokes for life!!! I holeshotted zach osborne at redbull day in the dirt this year in the 2 stroke pro class... got the photo
I own both 2 & 4-strokes, there's just something about a 2t, especially old school turn of the century bikes, they are far less refined than a modern KTM for example. But that '99 KX250 that rattles out your tooth fillings - is just something else, it makes you feel alive in a way a similarly powerful 4t cannot...
Hear the ping, see the smoke - you've just been passed by a 2-stroke.
nice, thanks for watching:)
Great vid keep it smokin!
Do a video on the Hercules 502 GS rotary mx bike
I agree with everything except premix. My first three dirt bikes, a Yamaha Mini Enduro, a Yamaha AT125 Enduro, and a Honda 250 Elsinore Enduro, were all 2 strokes with oil injection, and I never had one oil issue, and my newest bike a KTM 150 XC-W is also oil injected. So 2 strokes forever, but let's dump the ratio-rite.
Suzuki nailed oil injection in the 1960's. They pushed the oil through the crank to lubricate the mains and big end directly. Then a hole drilled up the conrod lubricated the little end. The result was a two-stroke that got the equivalent of better than 100:1 fuel to oil ratio while being dead reliable.
If they built it today, with direct, or even transfer port fuel injection you'd only top up the tank at a major service.
I'm concerned that governments around this world will try to put pressure on people to either buy electric motorcycles. Or try to eliminate on off- road riding all together
I'm an old guy who loves the 2 stroke
There will never be an electric dirtbike good enough to finish a baja 1000 or dakar race sooo that gives me hope,
Got a KTM 125 sx and love it. But I do sure miss my 2003 cr 125. Gutted I sold it all them years ago. Can’t believe what there going for now. Can’t beat look of that era of Hondas
Can’t beat the sound and how they are just like an on off switch.
It’s all about consumerism for the big Japanese companies. You hit the nail on the head with the full MXGP gate of the two stroke era and massive crowds compared to the low numbers of competitors on the start gate now. Too expensive for non factory teams which also affects new people coming into the sport at club level.
2 stroke for life
i would never sell my twostrokes -> they will never die
same! I keep getting more!
I love Kong and it probably is about as good as a modern-ish 2T gets.
However.
If the factorys had kept development up it would be a very different story. KTM and co - especially until recent years - simply haven't had the budget to throw at r&d like say Yamaha have.
When the Japanese four were dominant, development was through the roof. Just from the 70's to the 80's we went from aircooled with extended road bike suspension to fully adjustable, made to measure suspension on liquid cooled monsters.
If you want to clean up a 2T you supercharge and direct inject it - preferably with seperate oil for the bottom end. This has been known for years and is well developed tech in certain vehicles.
Although not supercharged, we had that on a road bike in 1997 - a Bimota Vdue.
Not a very good system but considering Bimota at the time had less money that a whip round at the pub its impressive they did it at all.
I would be surprised if properly developed, modern 2t's looked anything like Kong.
I would guess at DI, S/C, seperate oiling, a lack of an expansion chamber and with designs based around modern materials and a metric sh1t tonne more power.
Even if we ignore pressurised intake, the materials and design they allow alone would be worth quite a bump in power. For instance if you use lighter, stronger internals - Ti for instance - and the engine is designed ground up for it you will usually have a longer stroke and similar rpm because then you just get more power everywhere. If the design is based on alloy/steel its compromised to allow for that and thats where we are with Kong - its as modern as was made but thats still based on a 1980's design cylinder converted onto a modern gearbox in a converted enduro frame.
In modern terms there's little reason to think a 250 2T would make much less and a 500 would be way up there in the hp numbers.
Weĺl that wouldn't quite meet the desire for light, powerful, simple and cheap to maintain dirt bikes would it? The scavenge blower alone has to be bigger than the cylinder plus all it's associated drive train, a direct-injection system isn't simple or particularly compact and then there's the valves. The only way to get a piston-ported 2 stroke to run using forced scavenging and still get a reasonable amount of combustion volume AND a vaguely suitable compression ratio is to build a boxer engine like the Commer diesels had, all the rest use valves for the inlet side. Better add a charge intercooler in the system as well as one advantage of a four stroke is they have twice as long to dissapate the heat from the cylinder and piston, just one of the reasons they can run much higher compression ratios.
@@jimtitt3571 Who said it would be piston ported? Infact the bit where I said seperated oiling is a clue that it almost certainly wouldn't be.
Again the cooling issue isn't one with modern designs and materials which is another way the older designs are limited.
Oh and 2T compression ratios aren't actually lower - they are calculated in a different way.
4T are calculated over the entire stroke while 2T's only from when the ports are closed.
Cylinder pressures on a 2T are often much higher.
I have no idea how big a blower you think a 125/250 would need but its certainly not large or heavy. The supercharger on an H2 for instance adds 4kg and thats for something capable of feeding a 14,000rpm 1000cc making upwards of 250hp.
An s/c for a dirtbike would be less than adding a starter motor. Also its not there for forced induction so much as to guarantee movement of air and even if it was run at zero pressure, it aleviates pretty much all scavenging losses along with the need for an expansion chamber. It has side benefits like much better low/midrange and much cleaner combustion along with a much higher VE.
Thats before we get into how much less complex, how many less parts, how much more compact and how much lighter a 2T is in the first place - things which would allow the chassis to be smaller and lighter so a longer swingarm, lower or more centralised centre of gravity and so on.
On an even field and with even development a 4T just doesn't stand a chance.
@@siraff4461 Well the objective (or the original assertion) was that four strokes are mintenance intensive and complicated due to the valve train and the only non-valved system ever used was the Commer (Rootes) engine, the GM 71's are a hybrid with inlet valves and port exhaust, Wartsila and MAN marine 2 strokes have both inlet and exhaust valves. Which comes with next problem, the time available for complete scavenging is very limited which means you need a massive excess of air during this period which means an oversize blower, on a single cylinder engine this will be a real problem as you'll need a large plenum chamber and a way to control the pulses. So heavy, large, complex and high maintenance for nothing, just what we need.
A Wankel-type design would be a better bet from mechanical simplicty, weight and power, experience has shown they weren't very good, a few companies tried.
@@jimtitt3571 You're talking about massive industrial engines which were developed in the early to mid 1900's. The whole point is whats possible with todays materials and tech on a race focussed dirt bike.
Its not even close to the same thing.
As for the blower - pressure normalisation has been a thing for the last 20+ years and doesn't require some massive plenum or three tonnes of blower. All it requires is decent design of the flow characteristics in the first place - which modern CAD allows.
Thats the same reason you used to see resonators on car intakes but these days you almost never do unless its a very cheap or old design.
Things have moved on and thats the entire point - if a 2T was designed properly ground up today it would be very different and a lot more powerful all over the rpm range aswell as being cleaner by accident.
~30 years of real r&d kind of does that - especially in the computer age.
Comparing current 2T's is like comparing a fuel injected version of a 1990 4T.
@@siraff4461 I used those engines as examples of the various ways you can solve the fundamentals, getting air in and the exhaust out, how do you intend to achieve this? Which method you choose influences the rest of the peripheries and each method brings it's own problems and the associated costs which both the customers and the race authorities look down on, making grass-roots racing more expensive is not something they want to see. They banned twin-cylinder engines for exactly that reason.
Valves are for Toilets. 2 Strokes forever
haha, nice one, Thanks for watching:)
Except reed valves? 🧐😂
except power valves?
Still ripping a YZ 250 at 57.
❤😂😂
Gods own engine.
I loved the YZ80 J, 86 KX125, 90 KDX200, 07 KX250, RD350, RZ350, RZ500 and a few chook chasers and a mates IT490 in between.
I want a KTM300 now.
You should hear me on the chainsaw, I work that big bore like I'm smashing the gears on a ported YZ125.
2 strokes for ever.
Love to see you ripping it up Max. Do ur thing on a two stroke!!
2 Smoke 4 ever dude!!! Always on the pipe keep m screaming!!! I love my ktm 125 sx from 2005 :)
I am now a 15 year old kid who has sold a 4 stroke to buy a 2 stroke I prefer a properly tuned 2 stroke. Honda 2 strokes are my favorite. My father has a CR 500 and 250 and they are the best sounding bikes ever.
To keep the bike in the power band & the mix 32 to 1 that's a pure experience and can't be replaced 🏁
The thing that gets me you built a 700cc two-stroke unbelievable not been watching this and I'm going oh my God I want one
2 STROKE ALL DAY MAX Love the channel 👍🏻👍🏻
I'm with you mate. Always loved them and always will.👍
Great video as always
Great video. Make America 2 stroke again.
I joined your channel for the two-stroke content I have multiple 20+year old(yz85 125 250) 2 Strokes that will run circles around and same cc 4stroke of today....i think 😅
It's the sound, smell, adrenaline rush and simplicity of 2 smokers. K.I.S.S.
Just the fun factor for me. The 2T Is just more fun to ride. Great video guys !
I am fully restoring a 01 KX250 back to better than new right now that will be going on the market in a few weeks........... I only restore older 2 strokes back to old/new rides! I am also bringing back to new an 86 Suzuki Quadracer LT250R and a 03 YZ125 that will be hitting the market as well
Great video🤙. I ride an 07 CR 250; and will never get anything else. KEEP SMOKING👍😎🤙💪
Dude please tell me you’ll be along to the 2stroke festival at Sellindge mx this year, the week before Foxhill 🙏🏽🙏🏽
4-strokes only took over because the AMA/FIM decided that 4-stroke engines get a massive displacement advantage. Put a 250 2T up against a 250 4T with riders of the same caliber and the 4t will get beat - every time.
The hard enduro scene is absolutely dominated by 2 strokes as well. Probably the least amount of 4 strokes of any type of racing
Amazing, just one note. There are also some vintage 4strokes with some charisma and personality like 2 smokers have. Example: Husaberg 501. Vertemati VOR 503 or later 530 or KTM 520 (the first if its kind). But yeah not any of the "modern" 4stroke tractors is here in the list. Im the owner of sx 250 2023 and it is the best/most fun bike that money can buy right now.
Ane more: I always saying. How there can be racing machine with two more resting periods than it's necesary :D Thats nonsense.
Aint nothing like a 2 stroke giving that Hawk Tuah of a tune to my ears ;D
Hahah! Funniest comment of the day for sure lol
Keep up the good work with the two strokes YYZ never made a 500 is behind me
If you ain’t mixing gas you ain’t hauling ass… ❤
I’ve had a few new 4 strokes but gone back to 2 strokes as only ride for fun! So much more enjoyable and cheaper to maintain! 2 stroke for life ✊🏻💨
Great Video like always 😎👍💯
Thanks
great video
Thanks!
Still Ripping a YZ250!at 57. Grew up with them and will never ride a 4 joke fart can
2 strokes... make mx great again
Thanks for watching:)
I'm in the USA Bud that is one bike I will never let go of it's called two-stroke buddy especially our big bore it's not for everybody but I'm going to tell you it's no ripping song
im liking the sound of this footage in my mind you cant beat the sound of a two stroke full on whilst them four strokes just sound like an old tractor after all which sound you think the chics prefer?
Glad you enjoyed it!
My 21 ktm 2 stroke will always be my baby it might not have fuel injection or electric start but it out runs my dad's 97 cr 125 that has been bored out
Caster Bean oil, is my favorite cologne! ❤
I love my 93, CR125R, I want a 250 next then a 500!
I hope that quick shot of you ripping a yellow bike at the end was not that pristine out of the crate RM250 you just bought!
Four strokes being "easier" to ride is a perspective I find interesting. As a guy who started on a mild mannered KLX 4T, I felt way more at home when I upgraded to a YZ 125. Maybe it was because of how heavy and down on power that bike had, that made my really feel the advantages when I upgraded idk.
Got no interest in ever owning a 4T ever again.
Yep!👏🤙Braap!
If I was to buy a new bike to replace my 02 RM250 it would be a YZ250 or 125, maybe a Euro 300.
Would I rather hear a 2 stroke or 4 stroke?
Why not both? Motocross Bikes are a wonderful thing along with Speedway Bikes that should harmonise in the fact that wether we like that lovely braaaap around the corner, or to sound like a thunder storm off the gate, we all just love to fly high and roost up corners.
Brapdaddy
I think electric is definitely the future but 2 strokes will never die thanks max for the best videos on UA-cam
I can’t be the only person that doesn’t like 2 strokes. They sound flimsy like someone just flicking a tin can really fast. Their design is inherently inefficient due to there being no seal to keep the air and fuel at the bottom of the stroke. And burning oil is just dumb I don’t wanna have to buy oil that is being used so inefficiently. They do make more power than four strokes I have a 250 that makes plenty of power for me. The weight factor of 2 strokes is also nice.
I just bought my first modern dirt bike… KTM 300cc 2 Smoker! 😅
Hear that noise, smell that smoke, you've been past by a 2 stroke 💪
With the rules soon to be rewritten for e-bikes, it’s the perfect opportunity to call it Open Class and let 2 strokes compete again.
Habe mit china 4takter pitbikes angefangen und bin dann paar monate lang 70er 2t gefahren und ich werd wohl absofort immer mindestens eine 2t besitzen einfach weils so dermaßen geil is
motocross is about 256 Stewart 72 Everts, JMB cr500, Pichon, Carmichel, Ranghelov Moisev all 2 SRROKE, the rest is for the rest
Yup , Diesels just don't do it for me ; bypassed them altogether when needing a garage mate for my 125s .
An electric ...
Am I a bad person ?
You ask why..well two stroke's are lighter,more powerful,more torgue, simpler,more reliable, and off course Faster than four stroke's... that's why two stroke's will never disappear ❤ ❤
I’ve had 2 strokes and 4 strokes and there is no comparison to me 2 strokes are the funnest bikes and I’ll never own another 4 stroke
Nuthin like keeping a 1970s 125 mxer on the pipe!
Long live 2 strokes!!!
What's a 4-stroke?
Better
@@chrisrocha2150only if you’re slow and lack riding ability….
Hi max. ❤❤❤❤ive been veryucky as young kid in 70s watching roger decoster hekki noyce wolsink jj Bruno Malherbe to Gaston jobe rahier lackey everts Joel robert etc at track in UK chatting to them etc roger was my idol and still roday reason i fell in love at age if 5 yrs old 🎉🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤ and former club expert but middle pack one hahaha 🤣😊😊😊😊😊😊 and still love buefyifull sport i adore so much magic 🎉🎉.
It would be so cool if brands like Yamaha would make 500,s
They did. The YZ490 wasnt great in as-shipped form. The WR (using the same engine) was better, but the engine should have been scrapped in the mid '80s and redesigned. I have a YZ490, and it took a lot of time, effort and some $$$ to make it right.
Hey man shoot me a link for a keihini carb for a 2021 gas gas mc 125 the stock carb sucks.
You didn't mention the ridiculous displacement advantage 4 strokes get in racing that Is totally out of line these days. At equivalent displacement 4 strokes couldn't compete with 2 strokes.
❤
here allot of racers go back on 2 strokes they gain numbers pretty good last years again i dont like 4 strokes they drive weird for me
Thanks for watching:)
truth
Amen! Change the rules back to how they were! 125, 250 and 500cc classes without giving four strokes their "handicap".
250 with 250 and Shoving the 450 4 bangers in the 500 class would be nice.
At the european championship mx2 you can ride a stock 250 2 stroke.@@belt1974123
@@belt1974123 Yeah, It will be a nice mix of 2t and 4t at the top, I'm sure. And nobody can complain about it not being fair either...
I'm going to vmxdn this year 🇬🇧🥳🥳🥳🏁 who else is going?
Something about 4 strokes that is just dull to watch as a spectator. They lap faster and jump further, but can't compete with the adrenalin blasting mentalness of 2 strokes wide open. The ragged edge sound.
👊🏁
Long live 2 strokes
Honda cr 250 2t tutta la vita 2t 2t 2til mio tesorooo
Will there still be petrol in 20 years?
Also remember u talking only about mx, when in enduro, they are beloved and used on pro level at 50-50 betwwen 4t and 2t ;)