Certainly an overlooked control in many cases. I’ve been renewing my interest in CW, listening/copying in the evenings. Using the RF gain control, AGC speed, and filtering built in to my TS590, I found that I could have beautiful ‘armchair copy’ by balancing these controls. As you say, there’s no need to amplify noise and these simple controls easily improve copy. Most people I know always keep the RF gain control full open. Thanks for posting.
Great video Peter. I was fortunate enough to have an Elmer show me the RF gain control the first time I ever operated (ran the club station for Winter Field Day here in the States a few years ago) and it really helped. This gives me some more things to think about for the rare occasion I get the chance to work the airwaves these days. Also, I must say I really do enjoy the intro music. Delightfully fun.
Thanks for this video, I learned a few tricks I didn't know. Would you consider doing a series showing "best use", control by control? I am sure this would be useful to newbies, returners and revision for experienced people who set up by habit and may have forgotten some aspects. When people ask "how high is your noise floor", is that with RF gain down or up noticing it's effect on the signal meter?
I just got my IC 7300 the other day. After hooking everything up I excitedly turned it on & what was the first thing I did ? Well, I cranked that-there RF Gain control WAY UP (like a crazed teenager who just got his Driver's license & stomped on the accelerator pedal just to see how much "Pep" his car has), just short of "Squelch". As a result, for days I had been Monitoring (Overseas Airline Traffic on 8.843 Mhz) - putting-up with that annoying "Pumping" effect in between Transmissions, with so much Noise. After getting fed-up with that, I studied the relationship among the three controls & started fiddling around on my own. The 1st thing I did was to turn the RF Way Down, then turned Up the Volume control to 12:00 - 1:00, followed by setting AGC to "Fast". Lo & Behold - as a result I finally "Scared" my Tranceiver into giving me the loudest, clearest Voice transmissions ever, with the lowest background Noise possible. And no more "Pumping/Breathing/Compressed sound ! I think I accidently stumbled upon what you are saying here in this video I just found today, which seems to confirm what I had accomplished several days ago. I just "Set It & Forget It" & "Leave It The Hell Alone" (happily). Thank you so much - your videos are extremely helpful & "Very Diplomatic" : In an exquisitely eloquent way only an Englishman can do. 73s.
I tend to set preamp & attenuator per band to basically accomplish the same thing, but also use the squealch control when in QSO's or Rag Chews (mostly on the lower frequency bands) to make SSB almost as comfortable as FM. I also use a Noise Reduction speaker, especially on the lower bands. Back when I was living where I could run 160m with a full size inverted L it was necessary, especially in the summer, even with a magnetic RX loop. Keep spreading the good word! 73's mike N4ONL
Yes reducing the RF gain control setting for minimum noise, is little understood these days by some hams and it certainly helps. Problem is the RF gain control has to be set to at least a quarter to nearer the half way mark, to obtain a meaningful s meter reading, and this compromises noise reduction . You would have thought by now, manufacturers of modern SDR rigs would have overcome this RF gain issue. I have found that by using an outboard analogue audio processor, which has compression, expansion and a limiter really can improve the signal to noise on even the weakest signals buried in the noise. My audio processor limiter, can be very useful for greatly reducing very loud static crashes, making it much easier on the ears to copy SSB signals. So the extra expense by having an audio processor, has certainly been worthwhile for noise reduction. Perhaps modern SDR rigs should have a built in receive analogue audio processor, what a great idea.
When NC for a traffic net or checking in to a net, where I will be on a frequency for a while, I move the preselector filter so that my center frequency is at the edge of the filter passband, then adjust the rf gain until the s- meter deflection is just above the peaks of the noise. Much more enjoyable, and I can still copy the weaker stations just fine.
Hi Peter..Having (and this is embarrassing) never touched this control before, I’ve been using this technique since watching your video, and the difference in ‘ear stress’ relief is amazing, especially when switching from tx to rx..so once again, many thanks for your video and valuable advice…73..John..G4EIJ
Hi Peter, This is an interesting subject and the funny thing about you using an IC-7300, is that this is the main "disappointment" in my 7300 (SDR) when I compare it to my IC-9100 (superheterodyne). On the 9100 I can reduce the RF gain so that the AGC does not "pump-up" the noise in the pauses of the speech, but the audio level from the voice is not that much reduced, resulting in a far better -perceived- SNR. As you mentioned: this makes listening so much more comfortable indeed. I have used this for years and still do .. on the 9100. On the 7300, however, it does not work nearly as good (I am still using v1.30 firmware, so maybe things have changed by now). On the 7300, reducing the RF gain reduces both signal (voice) and noise and this is because the AGC on an SDR receiver works "a bit" differently. It still works a little, but not nearly as effective as on the 9100. Setting the AGC to 'slow' has far better effect on the 7300, i.e. as long as the remote station keeps on talking :) Of course, as you will surely understand, by reducing the RF gain, you are not changing the SNR at all. You are reducing the level of the "pumping action" (your words) of the noise by the AGC. 73, PC1JB
As i explained, it is the absence of noise during AGC recovery that is the main benefit. It does work better on a suoerhet snd the modern Yaesu radios with superhet front ends. Thanks for sharing. 73 Oeter.
I'm surprised that with SDR, there's not a way to suppress noise *more* than the signal because the noise is going to be much more Gaussian and stationary than SSB (which is much more coherent, and not so stationary). I agree that by turning down the RF gain I have noticed it becomes easier to listen, but also agree unless you can separate S from N, your not improving S/N (or S+N/N).
I 100% agree my main complaint with my ic 7300 is a poor (putting it mildly) RF control. Making it almost unusable on noisy top band . The ftdx 10,ts590 ts 870 , even the ft817 outperforms the horrible ic7300RF control.
On IC 7300 In the Audio screen, there are attenuation settings of 10 20 or 30 and the audio peaks go down accordingly. This is a different setting to holding down the P.AMP/ATT button and have ATT show up on the screen.
I found turning the Agc off on the 7300 was the best way to work with the rf gain control. Interestingly that method doesn’t work quite as well on the 7610. I keep the Acg on and adjust rf gain manually and with attenuation. I believe the 7610 has it’s Acg operating in a different part of the rf path and as such performs better as standard (and I’d agree with a that in practice too). Great video Peter 👍 thank you.
A very informative video on an interesting subjekt RF GAIN! [I was informed by an amateurradiocollegue about it!] Thank You Peter! 73s de Gunnar sm6oer
I really enjoyed your video. I am a student and want to be an RF Engineer in the future. I have a question, sir, what if I add adaptive filters to remove noise that varies over time. This is an advanced DSP topic but it really will help to block background noise. Also, I can use a bandpass filter centered at a very narrow band frequency to remove noise if and only if noise frequency is not present in that narrow baseband signal. please clarify for me. I have just theoretical basic ideas, Should I go for experiments if it works. Thanks in advance.
Dealing with noise is a complex problem. DSP algorithms are pretty good but there is always a loss of quality. Bandpass filtering has the disadvantage of also filtering what you are trying to hear. I wish you well with your Electronics future and maybe you will be able to answer your own questions. 73 Peter.
Good video, thank you. Question; is use of the RF attenuator function (such as on my TS-890; -6, -12, and -18 dB options), functionally the same as reducing the RF gain in terms of reducing 'heard' noise during pauses in speech on SSB?
I had heard of this before in connection with an old article on its use with Icom 756 Pro, Pro2, and Pro3. I found your video very helpful! But I wanted to ask a question: Is this procedure specific to Superhet radios? Will the newer SDR radios also be able to use this technique? (Maybe irrelevant, but I wanted to ask) TIA!
Minor counterpoint, with the controls adjusted so, one would likely not hear the extremely weak "Mayday" call in between the other station's sentences. LOL !!! 🙂
@@acestudioscouk-Ace-G0ACE yes. My comment was that a super hed does it better. The radio architecture is better build for that technique. Try it and see.
Unfortunately the RF control on the ic7300 is very poor . My ic 703 , ic 746 ,ic 7200 ic 781 is much much much better. The SDR ic 7300 sadly does a very poor job . But a do agree the RF control is my go to,to squash noise. DNR doesn't make up for a good RF control. However like i said most sdr radios I have Xiegue g90 and x6100 and ic7300 are poor when it comes to RF control . My somewhat low regarded yaesu ft-897 has a much much better RF control than the ic7300 ! On top band in noisy conditions the ic7300 is poor when it comes to RF control.
The RF Gain was designed to combat reciever overload not reducing signals to combat noise it just doesn't work. Why would you want to de sesitize your receivers why not just tackle curing the noise floor.
Yes this is good technique. I use it a lot on 40m. I find that I put the volume control fairly high and sort use the RF gain as the volume control.
Thanks for the info.
RF gain and attenuation is your friend, especially on the lower bands.
Yes agreed.
Best explanation of RF Gain that I have seen. Thank you. Need to go play now.
Certainly an overlooked control in many cases. I’ve been renewing my interest in CW, listening/copying in the evenings. Using the RF gain control, AGC speed, and filtering built in to my TS590, I found that I could have beautiful ‘armchair copy’ by balancing these controls. As you say, there’s no need to amplify noise and these simple controls easily improve copy. Most people I know always keep the RF gain control full open. Thanks for posting.
Excellent!
Great video Peter. I was fortunate enough to have an Elmer show me the RF gain control the first time I ever operated (ran the club station for Winter Field Day here in the States a few years ago) and it really helped. This gives me some more things to think about for the rare occasion I get the chance to work the airwaves these days.
Also, I must say I really do enjoy the intro music. Delightfully fun.
Glad to hear your comments. Take care. 73 Peter
Thanks for this video, I learned a few tricks I didn't know. Would you consider doing a series showing "best use", control by control? I am sure this would be useful to newbies, returners and revision for experienced people who set up by habit and may have forgotten some aspects.
When people ask "how high is your noise floor", is that with RF gain down or up noticing it's effect on the signal meter?
The noise floor is full RF gain and strictly speaking a dummy load across the antenna input. But it is really of no consequence for most of us!
@@watersstanton Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it.
Thanks, as someone who’s a fairly recent newcomer to the hobby, this has really helped.
Glad to help
I just got my IC 7300 the other day. After hooking everything up I excitedly turned it on & what was the first thing I did ? Well, I cranked that-there RF Gain control WAY UP (like a crazed teenager who just got his Driver's license & stomped on the accelerator pedal just to see how much "Pep" his car has), just short of "Squelch". As a result, for days I had been Monitoring (Overseas Airline Traffic on 8.843 Mhz) - putting-up with that annoying "Pumping" effect in between Transmissions, with so much Noise. After getting fed-up with that, I studied the relationship among the three controls & started fiddling around on my own. The 1st thing I did was to turn the RF Way Down, then turned Up the Volume control to 12:00 - 1:00, followed by setting AGC to "Fast". Lo & Behold - as a result I finally "Scared" my Tranceiver into giving me the loudest, clearest Voice transmissions ever, with the lowest background Noise possible. And no more "Pumping/Breathing/Compressed sound ! I think I accidently stumbled upon what you are saying here in this video I just found today, which seems to confirm what I had accomplished several days ago. I just "Set It & Forget It" & "Leave It The Hell Alone" (happily). Thank you so much - your videos are extremely helpful & "Very Diplomatic" : In an exquisitely eloquent way only an Englishman can do. 73s.
Hi Jimmy, I enjoyed reading that! 73 Peter
I tend to set preamp & attenuator per band to basically accomplish the same thing, but also use the squealch control when in QSO's or Rag Chews (mostly on the lower frequency bands) to make SSB almost as comfortable as FM. I also use a Noise Reduction speaker, especially on the lower bands. Back when I was living where I could run 160m with a full size inverted L it was necessary, especially in the summer, even with a magnetic RX loop. Keep spreading the good word!
73's mike N4ONL
Yes reducing the RF gain control setting for minimum noise, is little understood these days by some hams and it certainly helps. Problem is the RF gain control has to be set to at least a quarter to nearer the half way mark, to obtain a meaningful s meter reading, and this compromises noise reduction . You would have thought by now, manufacturers of modern SDR rigs would have overcome this RF gain issue. I have found that by using an outboard analogue audio processor, which has compression, expansion and a limiter really can improve the signal to noise on even the weakest signals buried in the noise. My audio processor limiter, can be very useful for greatly reducing very loud static crashes, making it much easier on the ears to copy SSB signals. So the extra expense by having an audio processor, has certainly been worthwhile for noise reduction. Perhaps modern SDR rigs should have a built in receive analogue audio processor, what a great idea.
Excellent - tackle noise at the front end, before fussing about with NR, NB etc. ! Thank you.
attenuator is key on some radio setups ,, nice video
Yes indeed.
Thanks for this useful information. I knew of that feature but did not really understand how to use it effectively.
I use the rf gain all the time it helps massively also using attention helps also especially on 80m I find
When NC for a traffic net or checking in to a net, where I will be on a frequency for a while, I move the preselector filter so that my center frequency is at the edge of the filter passband, then adjust the rf gain until the s- meter deflection is just above the peaks of the noise. Much more enjoyable, and I can still copy the weaker stations just fine.
Hi Peter..Having (and this is embarrassing) never touched this control before, I’ve been using this technique since watching your video, and the difference in ‘ear stress’ relief is amazing, especially when switching from tx to rx..so once again, many thanks for your video and valuable advice…73..John..G4EIJ
Hi John, great to hear from you and glad that you are finding the video helpful. 73 Peter.
Thank you, this is so important and many people have never seen it. Great tip if you were not aware of it.
Hi Peter,
This is an interesting subject and the funny thing about you using an IC-7300,
is that this is the main "disappointment" in my 7300 (SDR) when I compare it
to my IC-9100 (superheterodyne).
On the 9100 I can reduce the RF gain so that the AGC does not "pump-up" the
noise in the pauses of the speech, but the audio level from the voice is not
that much reduced, resulting in a far better -perceived- SNR.
As you mentioned: this makes listening so much more comfortable indeed.
I have used this for years and still do .. on the 9100.
On the 7300, however, it does not work nearly as good (I am still using v1.30
firmware, so maybe things have changed by now). On the 7300, reducing the RF
gain reduces both signal (voice) and noise and this is because the AGC on an
SDR receiver works "a bit" differently. It still works a little, but not nearly as
effective as on the 9100.
Setting the AGC to 'slow' has far better effect on the 7300, i.e. as long as
the remote station keeps on talking :)
Of course, as you will surely understand, by reducing the RF gain, you are not
changing the SNR at all. You are reducing the level of the "pumping action"
(your words) of the noise by the AGC.
73, PC1JB
As i explained, it is the absence of noise during AGC recovery that is the main benefit. It does work better on a suoerhet snd the modern Yaesu radios with superhet front ends. Thanks for sharing. 73 Oeter.
I'm surprised that with SDR, there's not a way to suppress noise *more* than the signal because the noise is going to be much more Gaussian and stationary than SSB (which is much more coherent, and not so stationary). I agree that by turning down the RF gain I have noticed it becomes easier to listen, but also agree unless you can separate S from N, your not improving S/N (or S+N/N).
I 100% agree my main complaint with my ic 7300 is a poor (putting it mildly) RF control. Making it almost unusable on noisy top band . The ftdx 10,ts590 ts 870 , even the ft817 outperforms the horrible ic7300RF control.
Good to hear MarK G1PIE on your clip! Thanks for the video Peter
On IC 7300 In the Audio screen, there are attenuation settings of 10 20 or 30 and the audio peaks go down accordingly. This is a different setting to holding down the P.AMP/ATT button and have ATT show up on the screen.
Hi,good interesting video, I will try your technique on the 7300 later today,🤔 thanks from Rotterdam 73.👍
well done Peter, good as always.
Would the AGC work against you as you ride the RF gain, might it be an option to switch the AGC off? Interesting video again, thank you.
Yes you can turn the AGC off it you have that facility.
I found turning the Agc off on the 7300 was the best way to work with the rf gain control.
Interestingly that method doesn’t work quite as well on the 7610. I keep the Acg on and adjust rf gain manually and with attenuation.
I believe the 7610 has it’s Acg operating in a different part of the rf path and as such performs better as standard (and I’d agree with a that in practice too).
Great video Peter 👍 thank you.
Works well too, if you have a radio that allows you to disable the AGC !
Great thanks and Grazie.... Today I learned something new about radios 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Think of RF as the volume of the antenna.
Yes
I've played with all 3, but not so much in a coordinated effort. I'll try that on my daily 80m net to see if it helps.
Thanks!
Have fun.
Great video Peter. Thanks. Greg.
Glad you enjoyed it
Very insightful, thank you 😊
You're so welcome!
Brilliant Peter thank you
That's a nice job explaining thank you👍
Good info! Thanks Peter
Good Video. But what about cw signals? Mark KB3Z
A very informative video on an interesting subjekt RF GAIN! [I was informed by an amateurradiocollegue about it!]
Thank You Peter!
73s de Gunnar sm6oer
Glad it was helpful!
I really enjoyed your video. I am a student and want to be an RF Engineer in the future. I have a question, sir, what if I add adaptive filters to remove noise that varies over time. This is an advanced DSP topic but it really will help to block background noise. Also, I can use a bandpass filter centered at a very narrow band frequency to remove noise if and only if noise frequency is not present in that narrow baseband signal. please clarify for me. I have just theoretical basic ideas, Should I go for experiments if it works.
Thanks in advance.
Dealing with noise is a complex problem. DSP algorithms are pretty good but there is always a loss of quality. Bandpass filtering has the disadvantage of also filtering what you are trying to hear. I wish you well with your Electronics future and maybe you will be able to answer your own questions. 73 Peter.
I use the rf gain control all the time on the 7300 probably more than any other control
excellent advice,,, cheers.
Good video, thank you. Question; is use of the RF attenuator function (such as on my TS-890; -6, -12, and -18 dB options), functionally the same as reducing the RF gain in terms of reducing 'heard' noise during pauses in speech on SSB?
Yes
I had heard of this before in connection with an old article on its use with Icom 756 Pro, Pro2, and Pro3. I found your video very helpful! But I wanted to ask a question: Is this procedure specific to Superhet radios? Will the newer SDR radios also be able to use this technique? (Maybe irrelevant, but I wanted to ask) TIA!
For most SDR transceivers,yes.
always a great video!
Thanks again!
peter will the g90 have this on it thanks
just found it thanks
hold in agc button for rf gain
god i can waffle on 40m my voice is so noticable. 73
if only i had they extra cash...lol...great video as always
Many thanks
I'm not sure how to do this on my little Yaesu (857). I can have RF Gain or Squelch active...
You have pick one or the other in the main menu. Squelch for FM or RF Gain for SSB.
I thought everyone used this control as a audio level control.
I can’t believe people not knowing about and using RF gain control!😆
Probably people that didn’t use a cb radio before getting a ticket!!😊
Minor counterpoint, with the controls adjusted so, one would likely not hear the extremely weak "Mayday" call in between the other station's sentences. LOL !!! 🙂
….or a rare DX QRP station trying to break in - both equally unlikely!
If only my frg7 had one
not much noise on 11 meters
This works much better on super hed radios. SDR’s far pail to this technic.
It works just as well.
@@watersstanton ahh, no it certainly does not.
Peter demonstrated it using an SDR radio, the IC7300 and it worked well.
@@acestudioscouk-Ace-G0ACE yes. My comment was that a super hed does it better. The radio architecture is better build for that technique. Try it and see.
I used to ride the rain there's with the old valve radios
Unfortunately the RF control on the ic7300 is very poor .
My ic 703 , ic 746 ,ic 7200 ic 781 is much much much better. The SDR ic 7300 sadly does a very poor job .
But a do agree the RF control is my go to,to squash noise. DNR doesn't make up for a good RF control. However like i said most sdr radios I have Xiegue g90 and x6100 and ic7300 are poor when it comes to RF control . My somewhat low regarded yaesu ft-897 has a much much better RF control than the ic7300 ! On top band in noisy conditions the ic7300 is poor when it comes to RF control.
Yes there are many better radios in this respect. The main thrust is to try using the RF gain control on whatever radio you have.
@@watersstanton Indeed that is true . Thanks for your response.
The RF Gain was designed to combat reciever overload not reducing signals to combat noise it just doesn't work. Why would you want to de sesitize your receivers why not just tackle curing the noise floor.
You have completely missed the poinr. Try watching it again.
Some time we can't tackle the noises floor RF gain or ATT is the option
The rf gain helps massively can bring weak signals completely out of the noise
Excellent - tackle noise at the front end, before fussing about with NR, NB etc. ! Thank you.
Yes indeed.