I've really been enjoying these videos. I'm a fairly new bowyer, and I've been trying to chase performance, through design and improving my materials. In the USA you are correct that there are only 2 glass manufacturers that are available and it can be hard to find information about other materials.
You surely do have some great videos Syd! Love all the knowledge you poses. It's quite obvious that you've put your time into this......Although in defence of most Bowyers i'd say it's more so a lack of time,knowledge,combined with lack of resources. ie Materials . S-Glass, 45 degree carbon for starters that are not readily available or extremely expensive to local hobbyist Bowyers. Yes the novelty of shooting buttery smooth limbs ,with seemingly little to no stack is indeed a wonderful goal to strive for.How'ever for all intensive purposes.We are still only talking about traditional bows here and recurve bows in particular. If we truly want speed and let-off then why shoot a recurve at all? Throw it in the closest and buy a compound.The END! Or was this video a shameless plug from Border archery planing on becoming a wholesaler of these hard to source materials so that small scale Bowyers can now purchase high quality,researched materials from a reputable source? lol
It was to help customers know what bowyers have done thier homework and what bowyers haven't. There are several garage bowyers who have done thier homework. Most of them are engineers in the first place though. Carbon and understanding its use, it what separates engineers from carpenters.
@@BorderArcheryLTD Much appreciated response .Though , Imageneers and car-paint-ers is another subject entirely. How well do Border limbs stack up to Uukha's ?
@@jessyr9666 since we invented the 2 aspects of thier sales pitch, extra recurve, and 45deg carbon, I'd like to think we have 2 advantages. Innovation, which I won't go into but our limbs are without the mass of the heavy composit core. And smoother. I'd put our CV2 against A SX+ without being shy. And if you shoot with a fingers touching the arrow and not string walking our CV5 will be 2x smoother with more energy. And still lower limb mass.
Awesome Videos! Really great to hear you share some of your knowledge! I´ve been building laminated bows for a while now. I´m based in Germany and of course went for that one well known archery brand for my glass fiber. The material has been frustating me for a while now for various reasons. You have me on a hunt for s-glass now, since i do want to show some pretty wood veneers in my bows;)
The availability of good clear consistent glass these days is sad. In the US, readily available is the old standard, cloudy and streaky, but consistent in thickness and spine. The German made offering, apparently they keep the good stuff for themselves because it’s inconsistent in every way. I’ve been considering 45 degree carbon and no veneers of late, but maybe there’s hope.
S-glass is actually only better in tension, compressive strength is pretty much the same for both. For traditional bows S-glass is definitely not worth the extra price. Limb design, timing, limb twist adjustment, overall fit and finish is much more important than fiberglass type that you are using
Thank you for your videos. As a new archer it has been mind blowing looking at equipment. You have been very helpful. Coming from the Aviation industry and my knowledge of Carbon fiber I too have asked some of the same questions you have answered. How can I buy your products here in the USA. Thanks again for your videos. Dan
We sell direct. Keep an eye out on our other videos if your new. It might help you cut through some of the marketting and get to the better answers quicker. I'm trying to populate this channel reasonably quickly. I only started 5 days ago
I don’t always trust carbon materials in the past I was into fly fishing for salmon and I had two fly rods snap while casting. I never had a fibre glass rod snap. With regards to archery I use fibreglass laminate with maple limbs. I suppose I’m a cheapskate old fart who only shoots in the back garden at 20 yards so cheap limbs are more than adequate for my use. I find this video very informative, cheers.
@@peterreece6547 there are considerable performance benefits with carbon, and being cheap with the handling DOESNT pay off and price doesn't reflect your duediligance in materials handling
Based on Google results the density of FR4 is 1.8g/cm³ while cotton phenolic as an example is coming up at 1.3g/cm³. We use cotton, if like to ask why your interested in the difference. The heaviest 25" ILF we have made was 2.66kg the 27" can go heavier. And that riser had wood in it. What are you needing?
@@BorderArcheryLTD I’m a longbow guy so that’s what I was thinking of with this question. An FR4 Warthog vs a Phenolic one would be heavier and bit more stable yeah? Just a thought. You never use FR4? Thanks
i had Kinetic carbon foam limbs (ud-C) and i recently bought kinetic Athlos with maple core and 3K carbon (X-carbon) wood core allows a sweet regular draw, more punch after the releas while the 3K carbone is associated to avoid the lateral torsions my traditionnal recurve has ash limbs with fiberglass and allows very fast shots, with few vibrations... so, i think the general use of carbone is a techno fashion too !
One question: I get the fact, that in a 90 degree carbon lamination only 50 percent store engergy for the arrow. But do the other 50 percent not prevent torsion in the limb? Might not be optimal, but not useless?!
You have to look at 2 aspects. Does the fiber deliver stability or poundage?. What ways does a limb compress or stretch fibers as thats how the fibers work. A limb does longitudinal compression and tension, and when in torsion for poundage It does a diagonal compression or tension. For torsional stability. The limb does not do anything vertically through its cross section. So, imafraid it does nothing
I've really been enjoying these videos. I'm a fairly new bowyer, and I've been trying to chase performance, through design and improving my materials. In the USA you are correct that there are only 2 glass manufacturers that are available and it can be hard to find information about other materials.
Great video! Super in depth nerding - love it :)
You surely do have some great videos Syd! Love all the knowledge you poses. It's quite obvious that you've put your time into this......Although in defence of most Bowyers i'd say it's more so a lack of time,knowledge,combined with lack of resources. ie Materials . S-Glass, 45 degree carbon for starters that are not readily available or extremely expensive to local hobbyist Bowyers. Yes the novelty of shooting buttery smooth limbs ,with seemingly little to no stack is indeed a wonderful goal to strive for.How'ever for all intensive purposes.We are still only talking about traditional bows here and recurve bows in particular. If we truly want speed and let-off then why shoot a recurve at all? Throw it in the closest and buy a compound.The END! Or was this video a shameless plug from Border archery planing on becoming a wholesaler of these hard to source materials so that small scale Bowyers can now purchase high quality,researched materials from a reputable source? lol
It was to help customers know what bowyers have done thier homework and what bowyers haven't. There are several garage bowyers who have done thier homework. Most of them are engineers in the first place though. Carbon and understanding its use, it what separates engineers from carpenters.
@@BorderArcheryLTD Much appreciated response .Though , Imageneers and car-paint-ers is another subject entirely. How well do Border limbs stack up to Uukha's ?
@@jessyr9666 since we invented the 2 aspects of thier sales pitch, extra recurve, and 45deg carbon, I'd like to think we have 2 advantages. Innovation, which I won't go into but our limbs are without the mass of the heavy composit core. And smoother. I'd put our CV2 against A SX+ without being shy. And if you shoot with a fingers touching the arrow and not string walking our CV5 will be 2x smoother with more energy. And still lower limb mass.
Awesome Videos! Really great to hear you share some of your knowledge! I´ve been building laminated bows for a while now. I´m based in Germany and of course went for that one well known archery brand for my glass fiber. The material has been frustating me for a while now for various reasons. You have me on a hunt for s-glass now, since i do want to show some pretty wood veneers in my bows;)
The availability of good clear consistent glass these days is sad. In the US, readily available is the old standard, cloudy and streaky, but consistent in thickness and spine. The German made offering, apparently they keep the good stuff for themselves because it’s inconsistent in every way. I’ve been considering 45 degree carbon and no veneers of late, but maybe there’s hope.
S-glass is actually only better in tension, compressive strength is pretty much the same for both. For traditional bows S-glass is definitely not worth the extra price. Limb design, timing, limb twist adjustment, overall fit and finish is much more important than fiberglass type that you are using
Thank you for your videos. As a new archer it has been mind blowing looking at equipment. You have been very helpful. Coming from the Aviation industry and my knowledge of Carbon fiber I too have asked some of the same questions you have answered. How can I buy your products here in the USA. Thanks again for your videos. Dan
We sell direct. Keep an eye out on our other videos if your new. It might help you cut through some of the marketting and get to the better answers quicker.
I'm trying to populate this channel reasonably quickly. I only started 5 days ago
I will share with my friends. Great information here.
Super vidéo
The translations kinda work eh!!
good video ur so dam smart thank so much and god bless you and ur family 🤠👍
I don’t always trust carbon materials in the past I was into fly fishing for salmon and I had two fly rods snap while casting. I never had a fibre glass rod snap. With regards to archery I use fibreglass laminate with maple limbs. I suppose I’m a cheapskate old fart who only shoots in the back garden at 20 yards so cheap limbs are more than adequate for my use. I find this video very informative, cheers.
@@peterreece6547 there are considerable performance benefits with carbon, and being cheap with the handling DOESNT pay off and price doesn't reflect your duediligance in materials handling
thanks.
I suddenly find very little value in stabilkore
For risers, do you use Phenolic or FR4? Are they the same thing with different names? Is one heavier than the other? Thanks
Based on Google results the density of FR4 is 1.8g/cm³ while cotton phenolic as an example is coming up at 1.3g/cm³.
We use cotton, if like to ask why your interested in the difference. The heaviest 25" ILF we have made was 2.66kg the 27" can go heavier. And that riser had wood in it.
What are you needing?
@@BorderArcheryLTD I’m a longbow guy so that’s what I was thinking of with this question. An FR4 Warthog vs a Phenolic one would be heavier and bit more stable yeah? Just a thought. You never use FR4? Thanks
Tell us what mass you want, and leave the method of. Achieving mass to us 😉
@@BorderArcheryLTD I hear ya, sounds good. Thanks 😊
Thank you..
i had Kinetic carbon foam limbs (ud-C) and i recently bought kinetic Athlos with maple core and 3K carbon (X-carbon)
wood core allows a sweet regular draw, more punch after the releas while the 3K carbone is associated to avoid the lateral torsions
my traditionnal recurve has ash limbs with fiberglass and allows very fast shots, with few vibrations...
so, i think the general use of carbone is a techno fashion too !
Please don't compair glass geometry limbs made in carbon, with limbs designed for carbon. I will explain in a stored energy video soon enough
Thats good to know what about the hoyt redworx 8
We only do single string bows.
One question: I get the fact, that in a 90 degree carbon lamination only 50 percent store engergy for the arrow. But do the other 50 percent not prevent torsion in the limb? Might not be optimal, but not useless?!
You have to look at 2 aspects. Does the fiber deliver stability or poundage?. What ways does a limb compress or stretch fibers as thats how the fibers work.
A limb does longitudinal compression and tension, and when in torsion for poundage It does a diagonal compression or tension. For torsional stability.
The limb does not do anything vertically through its cross section. So, imafraid it does nothing
@@BorderArcheryLTD Thank you for your reply! And thanks for sharing all that in depth knowledge - much appreciated!
What if I soak certain woods in epoxy essentially making carbon wood limbs 😯
If you soak woods in epoxy, then it becomes stabilised wood, which is heavy. But still doesn't have the strength of carbon
My recurve has glass then wood , carbon, then wood , glass. Five layers in total carbon being in meddle.
Single carbon... neutral axis?? Or is it stabilcore?