As a gundam fan you hit the nail on the head sunrise just fumbles pacifist character's Kira from seed being horrible same with Kio the only great pacifist in gundam is Loran from Turn A
@@epyonmetal7208 You know while doing research on this video, the topic of Loran often came up. This is like the 10th time or so that I seen someone else mention him lol. I can’t say much about Loran right now since well, I haven’t gotten the chance yet to watch Turn A(heard it’s better than Zeta my personal favorite so I’m very interested in seeing it for myself). One thing I can say, is that you’re definitely right about Bandai/Sunrise screwing over pacifist characters. In Seed, Kira was too preachy which rubbed off a lot of people the wrong way and by Destiny I wouldn’t count him a pacifist, but he’s definitely not the type of an ideal character I would call a “ True Gundam Protagonist”. Even in interviews, staff members refer to Kira’s way of fighting as “naive”. And while Kio, he’s simply just screwed over by bad writing.
Apart the Kio, I feels AGEs biggest issue is the Vagan themselves. I mean, you look at how most of them are portrayed in the Flit and Asemu arcs, and compare them to villainous factions like Zeon. While Zeon and the like DO have blood on their hands, it's shown that many of them either see it as a necessity or are just flat out unhappy with it. The Vagan however, not only commit WORSE crimes then Zeon(Colony drops not withstanding), but are more often then not shown to be doing so with a utter glee that makes them come off as sociopathic! These aren't downtrodden people seeking salvation or revenge, these are blood thirsty and murderous psychopaths doing what they love! How the HELL does anyone expect me to sympathise with that?!
You have a point with that mang, a lot of people online compare them to Blue Cosmos or LOGOS of SEED with their insanely vile actions. To be fair, I guess the writers probably made the Vagans like that due to their mistreatment over the long years after being betrayed by the Federation. I know it was played out very poorly, but the Vagan's desperation and longing for a new home was the cause of it all. Their lust and envy towards the Earth twisted their desires into something else completely. The writers then tried to play it off with Ezelchant claiming "he was giving humanity a chance all this time" was such a copout and honestly I don't buy it with all the times they invaded and attacked Earth. The only Vagan characters that actually were humanized was Zeheart and his squad in the third gen, but that's only about a certain handful when compared to the rest.
another big issue is making the vagan homeworld be able to move. like i get that it prob took a while for them to actually get it to work but like if they could get it to move and travel close enough into earth that it didnt seem like a year even passed what was even the point of the entire war? i know they were dying out and whatever but like i dont even remember a throw away line like everyone is sterile or something.
Then there's the time Kio used his funnels to block killshots on Vagans (although I sure don't remember him shielding his allies the same way). Say what you will about Kira, but he was never that aggressive or lopsided about his actions, outside of _maybe_ the early parts of Seed Freedom where it's more Kira stressing himself out and pushing himself into a corner than anything his allies are doing.
@@IdToaster Kio did shield his allies but it was only seen in one episode or two, yep even if Kira does have his controversial moments he never truly forced his pacifistic nature on others(he’s friends with atleast 3 people who kills in combat).
The main issue was they had no plan for any proper development for Kio, and the vagans being the wrong pick for the final antagonist. Plus, Kios story doesn't add up with the set-up they went for. The show tries to establish that Flint, in his old age after multiple wars, started to see people as tools, including his grandson who he decided to train without his own knowledge in piloting an MS, which normally would've ment he would also educate him differently. The Kio we should see at the beginning of part 3 should've been aggressive and especially hostile towards any non-terran person, because Flint would've probably made sure to instill the same hatred he felt after everything he lived through thanks to the Vagans. This also would explain the difference between the Age-3 and its predecessors. The Age-1 and 2 both felt like multi-porpuse MS which you could use in different ways while the Age-3 just come accross like a massive tank, which would make sense with Flints intentions. The rest would essentially write itself from there. Let KIo be an aggressive pilot who gets a lot of kills and always picks the most combat heavy option to solve a problem and slowly build up how this approach makes things WORSE, until Kio has to face that his upbringing thanks to his grandfather made him a part of the problem/conflict, and not part of a solution/just as bad as the people he is fighting against. Then bring the story of his capture in where he befriends Vagans, explain that not all of them are happy with the conquerer esque decision while also showing that those people act the way they do because they know they cannot just return to earth due to the still existing resource and space issue. FRom there Kio could slowly start to turn into a character who believes in pacifism and the values the Gundam franchise as a whole stand for. Oh, and the final villain? Should have been Flint. He already came accross as someone who cannot let go of his grieve, and I could totally see him dig his feet in when Kio proposes more and more peaceful option on how to resolve the conflict until he'd become a threat which causes both the terrans and the vagans to unite up against, and test Kios resolve. Still remember how many people speculated that Flint was going to be the endboss when part 3 started up, and how dissapointed many were when the writers essentially forgot their set up for him, or if this was even their intention.
This. I'm with you 100% on your rewrite with Kio and how Flit should had been the final villain. I might be mistaken but the novel did try to add some segments showing the more negative side of Flit's character till the point where even his own daughter hated him. Even in the end of the novel, Flit tried to commit "self delete" after all his actions. Flit's final arc should had and always should be him as the final villain, it's also something that hasn't been done much at all in Gundam. Showing how war effects the young idealistic Flit and further expanding on how our protagonist slowly became the false hero he became to be would had been truly impactful. I still remember the days of when fans and viewers speculated that Flit was going to be the final boss, back then I was just a kid and didn't care for any of those discussions much.. But now looking back at it, I truly believe that had the writers simply not screwed up their own writing, we could had gotten one of the best characters ever in Gundam AU in the form of Flit's arc.
Age is my first ever gundam series so I’m a little bias but it was not exactly a great one it definitely need to make bolder choices but for me my favorite aspect still gotta be the mech designs
@@Arnos-jt4qn honestly same, AGE is one of my first series I watched when it came out, after all I was just a young kid. Even if it had is ups and downs like Destiny’s story, I still enjoy it for it is. Genoace series is fr one of my favorite grunt designs next to the Nero of Gundam Sentinel, the fencer motiv of Genoace is so cool. If only the HG wasn’t so expensive now I would had have an army build of them.
Kio was weakest of the protagonist, not having any major character to bounce off of just really puts him as our over seer and not really feeling like a major player. What would've really helped kio, is instead of making him as a major player, they should've made him as a supporter to the previous protagonists, all of them being family could really just make a sympathetic cause to push for peace. Also kio being given freedom in the vegan homeworld, looking like the grandson is an excuse, and the bigger reason is that he sees kio as the hope for humanity, the xrounder who can get everyone to an understanding. Honestly the ideas are pretty interesting in the show, but the fact it started as a game was probably what limited it the most, they made a game in the LBX style both in gameplay and story with a bigger focus on a younger audience, which is probably why we weren't able to get too complicated or too bleak in the last arc especially.
@@LonggoBonggo I agree on that mang. To be honest with you completely, I forgot about the X rounder stuff until your comment just now lol. It kinda just came out of nowhere as a plot convenience unlike UC where it had multiple episodes and shows explaining to us about the newtype ability. Honestly for me, it’s always Flit that’s the true MC of the story, seeing him grow from an optimist child to a maniac seems very well done and interesting as a protagonist imo.
dear lord me and a friend watched seed freedom and it broke us mentally from the god awful writing and extremely predictable villains all the way to the ridiculously, hilariously bad "lacus is an angel" scene... i pitty you for having to watch that several more times to do a video on it lol
@@xenocyde8498 😂, to be honest mang that day I was mixing my drinks so I was out of my mind when I said that. So far I have only watched Seed Freedom only once, but for the sake of it I will do whatever that needs to be done. If you can tell from my channel, I have an obsession(?) kinda to endlessly rewatch Seed Destiny, if anything you should pity me for rewatching the last 10 episodes of Destiny over and over again in these past years 😂. All jokes aside, even though SEED FREEDOM was an enjoyable experience for me(the action scenes), I do believe it’s not a perfect movie, there’s still more I need to say about how certain aspect of Kira and possibly Lacus are portrayed in the movie(the plot retcons). If anything, I would like to hear your expanded thoughts on Lacus and Kira in SEED FREEDOM. I believe your input would be helpful in this potential video I’ll do in the near future.
As a gundam fan you hit the nail on the head sunrise just fumbles pacifist character's Kira from seed being horrible same with Kio the only great pacifist in gundam is Loran from Turn A
@@epyonmetal7208 You know while doing research on this video, the topic of Loran often came up. This is like the 10th time or so that I seen someone else mention him lol. I can’t say much about Loran right now since well, I haven’t gotten the chance yet to watch Turn A(heard it’s better than Zeta my personal favorite so I’m very interested in seeing it for myself).
One thing I can say, is that you’re definitely right about Bandai/Sunrise screwing over pacifist characters. In Seed, Kira was too preachy which rubbed off a lot of people the wrong way and by Destiny I wouldn’t count him a pacifist, but he’s definitely not the type of an ideal character I would call a “ True Gundam Protagonist”. Even in interviews, staff members refer to Kira’s way of fighting as “naive”. And while Kio, he’s simply just screwed over by bad writing.
Apart the Kio, I feels AGEs biggest issue is the Vagan themselves.
I mean, you look at how most of them are portrayed in the Flit and Asemu arcs, and compare them to villainous factions like Zeon.
While Zeon and the like DO have blood on their hands, it's shown that many of them either see it as a necessity or are just flat out unhappy with it.
The Vagan however, not only commit WORSE crimes then Zeon(Colony drops not withstanding), but are more often then not shown to be doing so with a utter glee that makes them come off as sociopathic!
These aren't downtrodden people seeking salvation or revenge, these are blood thirsty and murderous psychopaths doing what they love!
How the HELL does anyone expect me to sympathise with that?!
Bro, you can't just throw the colony drops to the side. They absolutely are every bit as bad as the Vagans.
You have a point with that mang, a lot of people online compare them to Blue Cosmos or LOGOS of SEED with their insanely vile actions. To be fair, I guess the writers probably made the Vagans like that due to their mistreatment over the long years after being betrayed by the Federation. I know it was played out very poorly, but the Vagan's desperation and longing for a new home was the cause of it all. Their lust and envy towards the Earth twisted their desires into something else completely. The writers then tried to play it off with Ezelchant claiming "he was giving humanity a chance all this time" was such a copout and honestly I don't buy it with all the times they invaded and attacked Earth.
The only Vagan characters that actually were humanized was Zeheart and his squad in the third gen, but that's only about a certain handful when compared to the rest.
another big issue is making the vagan homeworld be able to move. like i get that it prob took a while for them to actually get it to work but like if they could get it to move and travel close enough into earth that it didnt seem like a year even passed what was even the point of the entire war?
i know they were dying out and whatever but like i dont even remember a throw away line like everyone is sterile or something.
Let's never forget that Second Moon could move the entire time
Then there's the time Kio used his funnels to block killshots on Vagans (although I sure don't remember him shielding his allies the same way). Say what you will about Kira, but he was never that aggressive or lopsided about his actions, outside of _maybe_ the early parts of Seed Freedom where it's more Kira stressing himself out and pushing himself into a corner than anything his allies are doing.
@@IdToaster Kio did shield his allies but it was only seen in one episode or two, yep even if Kira does have his controversial moments he never truly forced his pacifistic nature on others(he’s friends with atleast 3 people who kills in combat).
The main issue was they had no plan for any proper development for Kio, and the vagans being the wrong pick for the final antagonist.
Plus, Kios story doesn't add up with the set-up they went for. The show tries to establish that Flint, in his old age after multiple wars, started to see people as tools, including his grandson who he decided to train without his own knowledge in piloting an MS, which normally would've ment he would also educate him differently. The Kio we should see at the beginning of part 3 should've been aggressive and especially hostile towards any non-terran person, because Flint would've probably made sure to instill the same hatred he felt after everything he lived through thanks to the Vagans. This also would explain the difference between the Age-3 and its predecessors. The Age-1 and 2 both felt like multi-porpuse MS which you could use in different ways while the Age-3 just come accross like a massive tank, which would make sense with Flints intentions.
The rest would essentially write itself from there. Let KIo be an aggressive pilot who gets a lot of kills and always picks the most combat heavy option to solve a problem and slowly build up how this approach makes things WORSE, until Kio has to face that his upbringing thanks to his grandfather made him a part of the problem/conflict, and not part of a solution/just as bad as the people he is fighting against. Then bring the story of his capture in where he befriends Vagans, explain that not all of them are happy with the conquerer esque decision while also showing that those people act the way they do because they know they cannot just return to earth due to the still existing resource and space issue. FRom there Kio could slowly start to turn into a character who believes in pacifism and the values the Gundam franchise as a whole stand for.
Oh, and the final villain? Should have been Flint. He already came accross as someone who cannot let go of his grieve, and I could totally see him dig his feet in when Kio proposes more and more peaceful option on how to resolve the conflict until he'd become a threat which causes both the terrans and the vagans to unite up against, and test Kios resolve.
Still remember how many people speculated that Flint was going to be the endboss when part 3 started up, and how dissapointed many were when the writers essentially forgot their set up for him, or if this was even their intention.
This. I'm with you 100% on your rewrite with Kio and how Flit should had been the final villain. I might be mistaken but the novel did try to add some segments showing the more negative side of Flit's character till the point where even his own daughter hated him. Even in the end of the novel, Flit tried to commit "self delete" after all his actions. Flit's final arc should had and always should be him as the final villain, it's also something that hasn't been done much at all in Gundam. Showing how war effects the young idealistic Flit and further expanding on how our protagonist slowly became the false hero he became to be would had been truly impactful.
I still remember the days of when fans and viewers speculated that Flit was going to be the final boss, back then I was just a kid and didn't care for any of those discussions much.. But now looking back at it, I truly believe that had the writers simply not screwed up their own writing, we could had gotten one of the best characters ever in Gundam AU in the form of Flit's arc.
Age is my first ever gundam series so I’m a little bias but it was not exactly a great one it definitely need to make bolder choices but for me my favorite aspect still gotta be the mech designs
@@Arnos-jt4qn honestly same, AGE is one of my first series I watched when it came out, after all I was just a young kid. Even if it had is ups and downs like Destiny’s story, I still enjoy it for it is. Genoace series is fr one of my favorite grunt designs next to the Nero of Gundam Sentinel, the fencer motiv of Genoace is so cool. If only the HG wasn’t so expensive now I would had have an army build of them.
you got yourself a new subscribe, brother! great videos!
@@hendystark8333 Thanks for the support! I try to post whenever I can if there’s some type of thing on my mind.
It's still my head cannon he wanted to be, you know. It's kinda every where in age.
Kio was weakest of the protagonist, not having any major character to bounce off of just really puts him as our over seer and not really feeling like a major player.
What would've really helped kio, is instead of making him as a major player, they should've made him as a supporter to the previous protagonists, all of them being family could really just make a sympathetic cause to push for peace.
Also kio being given freedom in the vegan homeworld, looking like the grandson is an excuse, and the bigger reason is that he sees kio as the hope for humanity, the xrounder who can get everyone to an understanding.
Honestly the ideas are pretty interesting in the show, but the fact it started as a game was probably what limited it the most, they made a game in the LBX style both in gameplay and story with a bigger focus on a younger audience, which is probably why we weren't able to get too complicated or too bleak in the last arc especially.
@@LonggoBonggo I agree on that mang. To be honest with you completely, I forgot about the X rounder stuff until your comment just now lol. It kinda just came out of nowhere as a plot convenience unlike UC where it had multiple episodes and shows explaining to us about the newtype ability.
Honestly for me, it’s always Flit that’s the true MC of the story, seeing him grow from an optimist child to a maniac seems very well done and interesting as a protagonist imo.
dear lord me and a friend watched seed freedom and it broke us mentally from the god awful writing and extremely predictable villains all the way to the ridiculously, hilariously bad "lacus is an angel" scene... i pitty you for having to watch that several more times to do a video on it lol
@@xenocyde8498 😂, to be honest mang that day I was mixing my drinks so I was out of my mind when I said that. So far I have only watched Seed Freedom only once, but for the sake of it I will do whatever that needs to be done. If you can tell from my channel, I have an obsession(?) kinda to endlessly rewatch Seed Destiny, if anything you should pity me for rewatching the last 10 episodes of Destiny over and over again in these past years 😂.
All jokes aside, even though SEED FREEDOM was an enjoyable experience for me(the action scenes), I do believe it’s not a perfect movie, there’s still more I need to say about how certain aspect of Kira and possibly Lacus are portrayed in the movie(the plot retcons).
If anything, I would like to hear your expanded thoughts on Lacus and Kira in SEED FREEDOM. I believe your input would be helpful in this potential video I’ll do in the near future.