This video was really helpful. I am new to the pool business and I have learned just about everything from David, I am one of his patrons I highly recommend joining it’s a great program.
Another great podcast David; thanks. There is a book out right now for DIY'ers by a highly-respected pool guru who heads a pool care consulting group out of Houston, TX. He lays out a pool set up or conversion over to his system of care by setting borates to 50 as a standard set up method like he also recommends for cya; also to set at 50 (non SWG pools), and then maintain fc/cya so that it never falls below 5% of cya. Without borates, he recomends the BBB-recommended ver batum at 7.5% fc/cya. This is the first time I've seen borates as a recommended level and not just an optional chemical level to add. This guy stresses minimal hassle and minimal chemicals and ease of care, so he is both smart and well intended, though his stance on making TDS a limiting factor is a little dated and questionable. I've debated borates for my above ground pool and think that it is a great addition, but I have had no algae issues following the BBB method of care; I've got a clear pool; and I'm using only bleach at 10% as an algaestat and sanitizer except at winter closure where I'll use a little polyquat 60. And also, I've got zero pH drift keeping my TA at 60. My pH stays steady at 7.4 and my liner is vinyl, so I'm not worried about csi/lsi. If any of the current conditions ever change where I had to start dealing with pH drift or algae or even excessive fc consumption, borates would be my first-choice addition to my chemistry plan; just can't justify it at this time.
I have a question about rain diluting the chemicals in the pool. I don’t understand how they wouldn’t just go back to normal once the excess water evaporates and brings the water level back to normal. Of course if there’s so much rain it overfills the pool to the point it floods out of the pool that’s different. It doesn’t rain much where I live so it’s not likely to ever flood my pool.
Awesome podcast info, I have a question though. I have a 46000gl UV Ozone pool, I definitely would like to add the Bioguard, does it make a difference with UV Ozone systems? Thnx and keep up the great work.
You add it to the skimmer? Will this product increase the pressure on your filter? So is it best to add acid first to lower the Ph and add the the Boric Acid?
Boric Acid is low in pH - in the 4 or so on the scale so no acided needed. Add directly to the skimmer but no more than 8-10 lbs in 24 hours. Will not increase the filter pressure
The biggest issue seems to be finding a method to accurately test the borate levels after you've added them to your pool. After reading many product reviews and users comments, the various brands of test strips are woefully inconsistent and inaccurate. Furthermore, the pool stores that I've visited will not test for borates. They seem to act as if adding borates is not a common thing. I wonder if that's because if everyone starts using borates, the pool store's sales of mainstream chemicals (chlorine, shock, stabilizer, clarifier, etc.) will drop dramatically.
Yes - that is probably a good assumption. You can determine the level mathematically in most cases with the poolcalculator.com app. Just enter your pool gallons and how many ppm you want to raise it to and the lbs. will be given to you. I think with this method you can get within 5 ppm.
@@SPL A pool calculator app is worthless unless you know the starting borate level. The initial dose is simple because you are starting from zero. But a year later when it’s time for a refresher dose there’s no easy way to know the level to enter into the calculator. The strips are worthless because the range is so wide and and tab colors nearly identical. I’m hoping to secure a few SpinTouch cartridges from LaMotte and convince Leslie’s to run it in their machine - they are really nervous about this because it’s against corporate policy
Excellent information. Previously I was using a couple of your older videos together to get all the info found here. So true about all my local stores not carrying these products and said they’ve never heard of using borates. I have a hard time believing pinch a penny and leslies haven’t heard of this. I added borax a few months ago but still find my ph rises in my swg pool. I need to add acid weekly. Is that still expected? Also did he say a spay spill way increases PH? How is that? Should I turn off spill over or is there others benefits?
@@andrewgaffka3525 Any form of aeration raises pH by continuously outgassing carbon dioxide from the water. This is beneficial in pools that tend to have a low pH and problematic for pools that already trend towards a high pH
Borate Test Strips www.amazon.com/Industrial-Test-Systems-481333-Poolcheck/dp/B07DR2TVQN/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=borate+test+strips&qid=1598036862&sr=8-3
Test strips work pretty good. LaMotte makes a reagent test disk for thier $1,000 water tester - the Spin Touch. But test stips are an affordable alternative.
Borate Test Strips www.amazon.com/Industrial-Test-Systems-481333-Poolcheck/dp/B07DR2TVQN/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=borate+test+strips&qid=1598036862&sr=8-3
Soooo I can save money by buying the 20 Mule Team Borax that has been around forever. Is there info on the box about using this in a pool and how much and all of that ?? I've ordered the testing strips. I have a Salt Water Pool in the Palm Springs area.....hope this works in the heat down here.
Nothing on the Borax box about use in pools. There website only promotes its use as a cleaning agent with multiple applications. They refer you to Pinterest to “Discover other uses”. Clearly they consider using Borax is pools an “Off Label Use” - they don’t want to be blamed for their laundry detergent messing up somebody’s $80,000 pool - the sales don’t justify the liability risk in their minds
Can I add the 20 Mule Team Borax and then followed by the Bioguard Optimizer. I have a pool Ph of 7 with Alkalinity at about 115. I was thinking of adding first 20 Mule Team Borax then following that with the next dose a day or whatever later with the Optimizer. I have a 58,000 gallon pool so its a lot of product over the course of a few days or week. I wanted to do like a 60/40 mix of 20 Mule Team Borax to 40% of Bioguard Optimizer. You can mix and match right?
Is there a way to check the Borates ? I added 20lbs to my new saltwater pool and it didn’t seem to make a difference in regards to the PH stabilizing. Before I added the Bioguard optimizer I got my PH to 7.6 and alkaline to 120ppm and two weeks later it’s back up high. Alkaline is ok but PH is over 8 for sure.
You will still need to add acid to lower the pH, it just wont rise as much. They sell borate test strips but you can use the math on the lable to calculate. 20 lbs should bring the level to 50 ppm in 10,000 gallons of water. If your pool is bigger you will need more.
Boric acid is a roach killer in POWDER FORM. Once diluted and dissolved in water it’s no longer effective. I live in South Florida where cockroaches are abundant yet I’ve NEVER seen a single one anywhere near my pool - they strongly prefer dark places with abundant food sources
I have an actual question - how much borax am I suppose to add ? I can't find any dosage info on your web site or anywhere for that matter. I ordered some borax testing strips hoping it will give a clue. I know it has everything to do with the size / gallons of a pool, but I haven't found a calculator that helps with the amount of borax needed. Thanks
@@SPL One other question please, have you found a test, other than the strips (which are very inaccurate so far) for testing how many PPM of Borax or Borate are actually in the water ? Maybe something like the regents we use to test for chlorine or ph or something like that. I probably have 10 lbs maybe 11lbs in 7500 gallon pool, and I do really like the way the water looks and feels, I just would like to get to about 35-40 ppm.....if you know of a test I can buy that would be very helpful. Thanks, plz keep up the good work you are doing for all us pool owners.
@@curlingdan Unfortunately your borate testing options are $20 steps that are worthless and a $1,000 SpinTouch water analyzer. I’m looking to befriend a local pool tech who may own the machine but doubtful they will water test for somebody who isn’t a client - I’ll offer a generous payment for the test. The other option is to get the special cartridge directly from LaMotte and beg Leslie’s to run the test - but the store personnel are very hesitant to reprogram the machine to test for borates
I'm getting about 15 (65oz.) boxes for a 20K gallon pool, does that sound reasonable? and I figure about 4-6 gallons of muratic acid. roughly 100.00 investment. hope it does the job! your videos have never steered me wrong before.
This video was really helpful. I am new to the pool business and I have learned just about everything from David, I am one of his patrons I highly recommend joining it’s a great program.
Thank you Kevin! 👍
After I added borates to my pool I experienced everything stated in podcast. In addition water felt much softer and kids skin didn’t dry out as much.
Another great podcast David; thanks. There is a book out right now for DIY'ers by a highly-respected pool guru who heads a pool care consulting group out of Houston, TX. He lays out a pool set up or conversion over to his system of care by setting borates to 50 as a standard set up method like he also recommends for cya; also to set at 50 (non SWG pools), and then maintain fc/cya so that it never falls below 5% of cya. Without borates, he recomends the BBB-recommended ver batum at 7.5% fc/cya. This is the first time I've seen borates as a recommended level and not just an optional chemical level to add. This guy stresses minimal hassle and minimal chemicals and ease of care, so he is both smart and well intended, though his stance on making TDS a limiting factor is a little dated and questionable.
I've debated borates for my above ground pool and think that it is a great addition, but I have had no algae issues following the BBB method of care; I've got a clear pool; and I'm using only bleach at 10% as an algaestat and sanitizer except at winter closure where I'll use a little polyquat 60. And also, I've got zero pH drift keeping my TA at 60. My pH stays steady at 7.4 and my liner is vinyl, so I'm not worried about csi/lsi. If any of the current conditions ever change where I had to start dealing with pH drift or algae or even excessive fc consumption, borates would be my first-choice addition to my chemistry plan; just can't justify it at this time.
Very helpful. Thanks!
I have a question about rain diluting the chemicals in the pool. I don’t understand how they wouldn’t just go back to normal once the excess water evaporates and brings the water level back to normal.
Of course if there’s so much rain it overfills the pool to the point it floods out of the pool that’s different. It doesn’t rain much where I live so it’s not likely to ever flood my pool.
Borates don't evaporate out of the pool.
Just ordered boric acid and a test kit. Letsss gooooo
Awesome podcast info, I have a question though. I have a 46000gl UV Ozone pool, I definitely would like to add the Bioguard, does it make a difference with UV Ozone systems? Thnx and keep up the great work.
Borates are compatible with it. 👍
You add it to the skimmer? Will this product increase the pressure on your filter? So is it best to add acid first to lower the Ph and add the the Boric Acid?
Boric Acid is low in pH - in the 4 or so on the scale so no acided needed. Add directly to the skimmer but no more than 8-10 lbs in 24 hours. Will not increase the filter pressure
@@SPL Thank you so much
The biggest issue seems to be finding a method to accurately test the borate levels after you've added them to your pool. After reading many product reviews and users comments, the various brands of test strips are woefully inconsistent and inaccurate. Furthermore, the pool stores that I've visited will not test for borates. They seem to act as if adding borates is not a common thing. I wonder if that's because if everyone starts using borates, the pool store's sales of mainstream chemicals (chlorine, shock, stabilizer, clarifier, etc.) will drop dramatically.
Yes - that is probably a good assumption. You can determine the level mathematically in most cases with the poolcalculator.com app. Just enter your pool gallons and how many ppm you want to raise it to and the lbs. will be given to you. I think with this method you can get within 5 ppm.
@@SPL
A pool calculator app is worthless unless you know the starting borate level. The initial dose is simple because you are starting from zero. But a year later when it’s time for a refresher dose there’s no easy way to know the level to enter into the calculator. The strips are worthless because the range is so wide and and tab colors nearly identical. I’m hoping to secure a few SpinTouch cartridges from LaMotte and convince Leslie’s to run it in their machine - they are really nervous about this because it’s against corporate policy
Excellent information. Previously I was using a couple of your older videos together to get all the info found here. So true about all my local stores not carrying these products and said they’ve never heard of using borates. I have a hard time believing pinch a penny and leslies haven’t heard of this. I added borax a few months ago but still find my ph rises in my swg pool. I need to add acid weekly. Is that still expected?
Also did he say a spay spill way increases PH? How is that? Should I turn off spill over or is there others benefits?
Try to lower the output on your SWG to the minimum and still get a 3.0 ppm reading. And you will need to add acid still.
Swimming Pool Tips, Reviews & How To - SPL good cAll. What does the spill over have to do with ph or anything other than just sound and aesthetics?
@@andrewgaffka3525 Any form of aeration raises pH by continuously outgassing carbon dioxide from the water. This is beneficial in pools that tend to have a low pH and problematic for pools that already trend towards a high pH
Is there a way to measure your Borates level in the pool once they've been added? Apologies if I missed that i the video.
Yes, borate test strips
www.amazon.com/Lamotte-3017-G-Insta-Test-Borate-Strips/dp/B00N4T4WD0
Borate Test Strips
www.amazon.com/Industrial-Test-Systems-481333-Poolcheck/dp/B07DR2TVQN/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=borate+test+strips&qid=1598036862&sr=8-3
Test strips work pretty good. LaMotte makes a reagent test disk for thier $1,000 water tester - the Spin Touch. But test stips are an affordable alternative.
I've tried several test strips brands and they weren't even close. I go to Hacienda Pools and get it tested for free. Call around ur area.
Is Borax the same as borates?
Yes.
How do you test the Borates level?
www.amazon.com/Lamotte-3017-G-Insta-Test-Borate-Strips/dp/B00N4T4WD0
Borate Test Strips
www.amazon.com/Industrial-Test-Systems-481333-Poolcheck/dp/B07DR2TVQN/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=borate+test+strips&qid=1598036862&sr=8-3
You can use test strips. They sell Borate test strips online.
Does the optimizer product or borates in general affect the cyanuric acid?
No effect on the cyanuric acid/
Soooo I can save money by buying the 20 Mule Team Borax that has been around forever. Is there info on the box about using this in a pool and how much and all of that ?? I've ordered the testing strips. I have a Salt Water Pool in the Palm Springs area.....hope this works in the heat down here.
There is a site. www.poolcalculator.com/ It is pretty spot on too.
Nothing on the Borax box about use in pools. There website only promotes its use as a cleaning agent with multiple applications. They refer you to Pinterest to “Discover other uses”. Clearly they consider using Borax is pools an “Off Label Use” - they don’t want to be blamed for their laundry detergent messing up somebody’s $80,000 pool - the sales don’t justify the liability risk in their minds
Can I add the 20 Mule Team Borax and then followed by the Bioguard Optimizer. I have a pool Ph of 7 with Alkalinity at about 115. I was thinking of adding first 20 Mule Team Borax then following that with the next dose a day or whatever later with the Optimizer. I have a 58,000 gallon pool so its a lot of product over the course of a few days or week. I wanted to do like a 60/40 mix of 20 Mule Team Borax to 40% of Bioguard Optimizer. You can mix and match right?
Yes -that is a sound idea. No isses.
You are going to need A LOT of muriatic acid after adding Borax to a pool that size - several cases over the first week alone
Is there a way to check the Borates ? I added 20lbs to my new saltwater pool and it didn’t seem to make a difference in regards to the PH stabilizing. Before I added the Bioguard optimizer I got my PH to 7.6 and alkaline to 120ppm and two weeks later it’s back up high. Alkaline is ok but PH is over 8 for sure.
You will still need to add acid to lower the pH, it just wont rise as much. They sell borate test strips but you can use the math on the lable to calculate. 20 lbs should bring the level to 50 ppm in 10,000 gallons of water. If your pool is bigger you will need more.
@@SPL Thanks Dave I’m starting to to the swing of it.
So will this kill insects, frogs, etc that fall into the water?
No, it won't have any effect on them - once in the water it is very diluted.
@@SPL I thought you claimed that it dissolved insects? I guess I misunderstood. Thanks for the input, love the channel.
@@RandomUserName92840 It dissolves the shells of cockroaches and some other insects.
Boric acid is a roach killer in POWDER FORM. Once diluted and dissolved in water it’s no longer effective. I live in South Florida where cockroaches are abundant yet I’ve NEVER seen a single one anywhere near my pool - they strongly prefer dark places with abundant food sources
I have an actual question - how much borax am I suppose to add ? I can't find any dosage info on your web site or anywhere for that matter. I ordered some borax testing strips hoping it will give a clue. I know it has everything to do with the size / gallons of a pool, but I haven't found a calculator that helps with the amount of borax needed. Thanks
This one is the best for that: www.poolcalculator.com/
@@SPL Found it, thank you, 4lbs added and 12 lbs more to go !
@@SPL One other question please, have you found a test, other than the strips (which are very inaccurate so far) for testing how many PPM of Borax or Borate are actually in the water ? Maybe something like the regents we use to test for chlorine or ph or something like that. I probably have 10 lbs maybe 11lbs in 7500 gallon pool, and I do really like the way the water looks and feels, I just would like to get to about 35-40 ppm.....if you know of a test I can buy that would be very helpful. Thanks, plz keep up the good work you are doing for all us pool owners.
@@curlingdan Unfortunately your borate testing options are $20 steps that are worthless and a $1,000 SpinTouch water analyzer. I’m looking to befriend a local pool tech who may own the machine but doubtful they will water test for somebody who isn’t a client - I’ll offer a generous payment for the test. The other option is to get the special cartridge directly from LaMotte and beg Leslie’s to run the test - but the store personnel are very hesitant to reprogram the machine to test for borates
Do borates add to total dissolved solids?
Maybe slightly.
I'm getting about 15 (65oz.) boxes for a 20K gallon pool, does that sound reasonable? and I figure about 4-6 gallons of muratic acid. roughly 100.00 investment. hope it does the job! your videos have never steered me wrong before.
I use the poolcalculator.com to verify the amount usually - good luck and thanks for the great feedback! 👍
Any idea how the use of borates affects CO2 systems as pH control?
Should have no effect.
bioguard optimizer vs optimizer plus what’s the difference?
Optimizer will be discontinued - it has a high pH vs the Plus with a pH of 5 so it won't move the pH up on you when you add it.