About the cultural appropriation thing, it's not that I "don't care about it". I just don't want to say something is cultural appropriation when it's not MY culture. It's not for me to decide!!!
@Natasha.Louisee - Well said. Often it’s not even something for people within that culture to decide. Especially when the majority don’t agree on the difference between appropriation and appreciation. Many don’t take issue and in fact encourage others to participate in their culture. Yet it doesn’t stop individuals from being under the delusion that they are the personal gatekeepers and voice of an entire race or society.
Deletes paragraph* But Also as a desi person. Henna is not something that people should gatekeep and say it's cultural appropriation because when foreigners do henna or mehndi we honestly feel proud that our culture is being appreciated by foreigners. Idle didn't mock or rebrand henna they just did it. Anyone can do henna. It's not something only desi people can do. It's just something that is deeply rooted in our culture
this us his i fell about everything! i know it’s not rlly my place but for example dutch braids (i think it was dutch braids??) came from viking’s but no one ever says dark skinned people cant wear them?
As a desi person, second this! They talk specifically in behind the scenes how they did henna bcs it enhances their point choreography, there are no weird jokes about it, just a "hey this is a thing we tried from another culture"
@@sanonymous_003 I didn't, UA-cam did it. UA-cam does that now. It adds hyperlinks to certain popular words and if you click them they take you to a search.
i'm indian and with henna it really just depends on the exact situation. with gidle i would say it's not cultural appropriation at all. henna isn't some sacred thing reserved for weddings. plenty of people just get henna for the aesthetic too and this is true across many cultures that use henna for temporary tattoos. when i was a kid i would literally just get it for fun. imo it's only a problem if they're mocking it or trying to pretend it's not connected to indian culture (or alternatively, whatever other henna wearing culture they took inspiration from). same with bindis. it's kind of odd to see henna and bindis styled with non traditional clothes but that's cultural appropriation in the literal, very neutral sense of the word. it's not negative unless they're disrespectful. henna particularly as well is used by plenty of people in non traditional ways. like i've been to so many indian cultural fairs etc where foreigners often prefer to get non traditional henna designs and that's completely fine as well! at the end of the day henna is just a tool and as long as peopel are respectful it's okay. indian people are very willing to share our culture with people wanting to learn and appreciate. edit: also, geniunely some people have gone in so hard on preventing cultural appropriation that they are literally advocating for segregation. simply standing in front of a building built in a style not native to your country of origin to film a music video is not cultural appropriation. adopting artistic elements from other cultures is not cutlural appropriation. we only need to sound the alarm bells when people are doing something morally objectionable. trying to make a song inspired by 90s hip hop or latin music is not unethical or morally wrong. people take inspiration from everywhere. the emphasis needs to be on doing it in a respectful way and understanding where your limits are as an artist and as someone who is an outsider to that culture. the "ethnic hip" thing was wrong because it was disrespectful and stereotyping an entire continent with countless cultures and music styles, not because soyeon thought they should take inspiration from a culture she is an outsider to. genuinely, i have known people who think like this and they are some of the most racist people you will ever meet. they just camoflage their racism in the language of social justice and respecting other people's cultures. but they'll be people saying they don't listen to hip hop because it's for black people, and people saying they don't eat indian food because that's for indian people, and people saying they don't watch any french movies, because those are only for french people. i literally was friends with someone like this and whenever i tried to share freaking bollywood movies which are not even a cultural touchstone so much as a capitalist profit making machine that hindi speakers are familiar with, this woman was literally saying she didn't want to watch it because she's not indian so she "wouldn't get it". sounding the cultural appropriation alarm every time someone parttakes in an unfamiliar culture is insane and i fully mean that. people are alive today who are completely fucking convinced that even interacting with a culture you didn't grow up in is a moral wrong. and those are the people deciding to call gidle out for wearing henna of all things. we need to focus our energy on ACTUAL fuck ups. ALSO. i'm queer and genuinely real people cannot queer bait. kind of looking gay in a music video is not queerbaiting. their sexuality doesn't matter. you people have lost the plot. queer baiting is dangling the possibility of queer representation in front of audiences to get them to watch/read your thing and then not following through by not having representation. like sherlock bbc constantly teasing holmes and watson's relationship as being romantic and never following through. real people can't queer bait.
Actually, Soyeon did had a statement somewhere where she said if she got attracted to a woman, she wouldn't think about "why am i attracted to women?", she'd just go with the flow instead. So yes, whether it's a man or a woman, she wouldn't think of the gender rather instead her attraction to that person matters.
I'm a lesbian, and I was sosososo happy when I first listened to Oh My God!! It's not queerbaiting, it's very explicitly just queer- queerbaiting means making viewers think something queer is going on through subtext and then never following through with it. But they use female pronouns throughout the song- that's not subtext at all. Soyeon also stated that she's very open minded when it comes to queerness and said she wouldn't be surprised if she ever fell for a woman. So yeah! Love her!
As a bisexual, rather then queerbaiting i felt like in “oh my god” they were more representing the lesbian/bisexual community and i really appreciate that. I always love when artists start showing signs of homosexuality in their music/mvs. Also, im really sorry for your breakup! Wish you well
THANK YOU for speaking out for the "cringe English lyrics" like ugh i always see people say that when they don't know how to align a 5 words sentence in any another language like god shut up 😤😤 no i did not woke up one day being able to read, speak, write and listen to English. It took approximately 10/15 years of my life to get to that level by consuming a tones of english content every single day. Also I'm sorry to hear about your separation i hope you're in a good place
I feel like so many people mix up appreciation and appropriation. I feel like Soyeon genuinely liked the cultures and traditions in them when she took inspiration. It seems way more like she was just trying to implement them and get more people exposed to them, while trying to remain as respectful as possible. Very similar to how kpop shows parts of Korean culture and some kpop stans will start to integrate that into their lives without really noticing all that much. Or in Japan, you can go to specific stores to get traditional Kimonos, that’s appreciating their culture not appropriating. I think Soyeon can sound insensitive or not implement her appreciation in the best ways sometimes, but anyone looking at another culture or trying to do anything with a different culture would probably do the same
I'm a Lesbian. And I'm in love with Oh My God. It's my favourite song of theirs actually! It made me feel ... idk how to explain it but 'heard'. I could be biased since I'm a Neverland, but I don't think Oh My God was a queer-baiting song. Oh My God was supposed to be very 'open to interpretation' song, and I think Soyeon definitely did it on purpose to change the pronouns to 'she' instead of 'he' in the song. It's called the 'Lesbian Anthem' for a reason. And I stand by this saying: People just hate successful women. I know that the kpop fans HATE Soyeon, I knew that since forever, and I try my best to limit myself from those types of people because I really like i-dle's music. Soyeon's music always speaks to me in a way that other music don't, and I'm really sad that I'm very unsure about their future. I want them to stay together, and I want Soojin to comeback to i-dle.
The way that people online just despise Soyeon… Like if you don’t like her music or if you don’t vibe with something she said that’s fine, but the way people relentlessly try to drag her down just screams misogyny
I’m Arab but I don’t think henna is cultural appropriation. it’s art, and art is ment to be shared. I was happy seeing them with henna in the mv, it looked so pretty!
The craziest thing to me about the whole bullying scandal to me is that it wasnt even highschool. It was middle school. Imagine your carreer being ruined cause you got into an argument with a girl in middle school. We cant really know what happened. It is very likely that if there was bullying it wasnt to the extent claimed and theres a lot of reason to doubt it happened to begin with, but if she did everything she was accused of as a 13 year old girl, then grew up and acted better, thats the more important thing in my book, and by all accounts Soojin was a pretty stand up person
In the court case the police dismissed it because apparently there was "no evidence" online. But they did exposed that Soojin was a victim of bullying by her school's records. She did admit to the smoking thing (which is like a one time thing which many people get it since smoking and drinking people just get curious with that and she tried it and never liked it since). So the school records was able to prove her innocence, but idk why the police dropped the whole thing especially when there was a clip of the so called "victims" doing gestures of trying to hurt Soojin while listening to (G)I-DLE's music (which is hypocritical because on of their statements was that they get traumatized every time they hear the group's music because of Soojin, which is a whole lie lol.)
@@MalKwinmov The reason they dropped it is cause they couldn't prove that it was done with malicious intent, and not just a recontextualizing of a past event. There was no evidence of what actually happened, just 2 people's wods against each other.
@@WeisenheimerJack Yeah I knew that. I just maybe seeing the threats the "victims" were making would've made them guilty and also a lot of their inaccuracies. The case couldn't show which side was right or wrong, but I'm glad the school's records proved her innocence in the end.
I feel like the definition of cultural appropriation varies a lot depending on where you‘re from. For example I, a person from Germany, don‘t see things like traditional make up from other cultures or hairstyles as cultural appropriation, IF you don’t try to claim it as something that it isn‘t or mock the culture in your behaviour or speech. Here i have met a lot of people of other cultures that encourage this ,actually (not cultural appropriation). For example at fairs or festivals there are people of color who offer to braid your hair or do your make up in the style of their culture. The line between cultural appropriation and appreciation is very thin and a lot of people use that as an excuse to accuse people of cultural appropriation if it actually isn‘t. This is just my point of view tho.
hi, indian person here - mendhi / henna is not cultural appropriation! it's meant to be aesthetic but it has history so as long as you understand that and do a little research then you're all good! also pls don't call us desi, cuz it makes no sense coming from someone non-indian cuz it directly translates to "my people / nationals" and indians are very clearly not your people 😭 just call us indian / south asian xx
Hi! Opinion from a teacher from the UK. I've had to oversee bullying cases and I was bullied when I was in school. Bullying never leaves you, the things people poke fun at you for can become complexes. Verbal bullying is a complicated topic, When a student says they've been bullied we have meetings about it before taking action. Context is a big part of verbal bullying, for example we've had two incidents of a student calling another student an insult (the one relating to how they sleep with others). One was just a random insult commented on another's instagram post, the other was a personal insult to a student that was assaulted. Both are hurtful insults. Both were cases of bullying. Both were very diverse in complexity. But both can be described as harassment. And that's it, bullying is a form of harassment, telling someone to f-off once? Not an issue. Telling them 10 times? Very different. In short, it'd only be bullying if Soojin did this sort of thing to one student specifically, but by the sounds of things she didn't. Thought that being said, we will never know what truly happened so it's best not to speculate. But anyway sorry for the long comment, I'm just very passionate about this! Really love this video, it feels so nice for someone to explain their thoughts rather then giving no reasoning behind their statements. PS: Your skin is so clear! I need to know your skincare routine 🥲❤
Queerbaiting is, and will always be, about fictional media. A series that hints a gay relationship and never makes it canon= queerbaiting. A game that publicized itself as openly queer just to end up having zero real queer characters= queerbating. A song that portrays wlw, actual wlw ≠ queerbaiting. And also, people can't queerbait. Sexuality is fluid and personal, you cant assume if people is straight or queer just because of the "vibes" you get from them. Oh my God is a banger too.😊
I personally enjoy the way soyeon utilizes english in her songs. I think it does well to still keep a kpop-feel to the music while also globalizing it, because other groups utilize english so much and so clearly that it sounds more like an american pop song. I also think she uses english more as an emphasis to certain words/phrases so that everyone understands whats being said, like the intro to nxde, instead of including english to make it easy on the tiktok algorithm like other groups do...
3:47 idk if we had different TLs, but on my, they got called out for it. People voiced their disappointment, and as always, jokes were made how they couldn't stop offending people. NCT also has a huge list of racism and cultural appropriation.
The conversations around cultural appropriation in kpop is one of the most exhausting things ever. Like as a black person literally most if not all of what we know as kpop is taken from black culture the clothes, hairs, lyrics, production, music, aesthetics its a lot. I dont mind a some of the use of black culture obviously because art is ment to be transformitve but knowing how black people are treated in Korea and the kpop community it makes me soooo uncomfortable to see it. Though i am starting to see more black people in behind the scenes stuff in kpop which gives me more hope as in my opinion one of the parts that makes cultural appropriation so bad is the culture erasure that comes with it
Same as a black Kpop fan sometimes the ignorance is so hard to see with idols 😭. I think a lot of the time it is ignorance rather than genuine hatred and racism (not that ignorance is much better) but so many Kpop fans don’t know the difference at all (my guess is because a lot of them are white so don’t know the difference bc they don’t experience it)
I’m so sorry to hear about your breakup, choosing what’s best for you can be difficult but it’s always the right choice. Sending positive energy your way💖💕
@@dawn3589they were together for multipule years i’m pretty sure… so they weren’t in the ‘honeymoon’ phase or whatever people love to say. they might have just grown apart or realised they had different life goals… you need to stop projecting
I mean… yes some of the stuff that Soojin was accused of was wrong (I don’t believe the accusations though). BUT I don’t think something you do in high school when you’re young, impressionable, and do stupid things. should determine or define who you are NOW as a person (depending on how bad it is). Soojin is a fully grown women now and within that time of her being in high school and to now, has most likely grown and developed has a person. Everything you do as a high schooler, when your brain isn’t even fully developed, shouldn’t determine if you have a successful career. It’s not fair to strip her of that just because she wasn’t a perfect and nice teenager. I don’t think victims of bullying should have to hide the fact that they were bullied. They were the victim and if they want to share their story that is completely fine. BUT I don’t think the idol or celebrity should be kicked out of their group and fired from their literal job. Especially if what they’re being accused of isn’t proven to be true and or has no evidence.
the fact that apparently nct's make a wish didn't get as much hate when they did all that at a mosque-adjacent infrastructure compared to hann is... it sure is something
heyo, just on a sidenote from one bisexual woman to another: I wouldn't call the imagery used in oh my god "lesbian relationship" imagery, simply because women who love women can be, you know, other sexualities than lesbian, e.g. bisexual, pansexual,... I like the term women who love women for that and I personally do get sad when seeing stuff like this labeled as lesbian, so that I am just left out of the conversation
Sapphic is another word used to describe wlw content and relationships, especially when the subject isn't specifically about lesbians, but includes other orientations.
I'm 44 years old and i pretty much agree on everything you mentionned, here's for the so callled generation gap :) I'll add that Idle are one of the most genuine live vocalist i saw on Kpop Girls group.( Soyeon & Minnie on 2024 MAMA superlady are just an example to follow in my book). Also about culture appropriation i'm pretty much siding with your opinion, but i'm feeling bad that if someone takes like French, Bristish, or any east european country references in clips or lyrics, the cultural appropriation almost never comes in. If Korean artist references French culture is'nt considered as culture appropriation, why Korean artists referencing India or Moroco would be ? their relations to those culture are pretty much the same in my opinion so again, i feel subjectives , free, out of context criticism and i despise that. Their probably the only K-pop Girl group with all the members involved in their music & choregraphy conception since pretty much their debut, i have nothing but a infinite respect for their work.
I think the reason why fans get more upset when countries like India or Morocco get references compared to countries like france is the racism part of it. Portrayals of more ethnic countries tend to get mocked quicker than western countries so ppl are a lot more quick to point it out. As an African Kpop fan my first reaction is usually disappointment rather than excitement when a Kpop idol mentions Africa since they usually say something ignorant. I do agree though that Kpop fans are too quick to call the racism or cultural appropriation card when most of the time it’s just ignorance (which isn’t much better but is still different)
gidle were also dancing in the bg of a mosque which is a holy place for muslims to worship and pray. it wasn't directly their fault but it's still highly offensive.
As someone who learnt English as a second language and got an English degree, I'd like to chime in on that last part! While I totally agree with your sentiment when it comes to people just speaking casually, it does rub me the wrong way when artists (especially ones with the budget and ressources Idle has) put out content like music with broken english (or any other language), because with the amount of time and effort put into the song, you would think they would invest at least a little bit of time to find a qualified english speaker to correct their grammatical mistakes. While I don't expect Shakespearian levels of lyricism from song writers (not everyone can be Hozier), I feel like since it's such an important part of a song the least you can do is get it to be gramatically correct. There's no shortage of native english speakers in the kpop industry who could help, like how Dawn went to Jessie with his debut song and asked her to correct his English lyrics. So yeah, just my two cents :) Also great video and sorry to hear about your break up, I wish you healing ❤️
As another person who doesn't speaks English as a native language, I politely ask you to actually study Shakespear. He literally twisted spelling of words and invented names like Jessica. He is the very example of someone who impacted the English language without it being 100% correct in his timeperiod.
OMG u scared me at the start😭😭 and no henna is not cultural appropriation loads of people wear henna even if they are not from the place. Also you broke up?!?!?!
I think cultural appropriation really is a term being thrown around now, especially in kpop. I live in a community with a lot of different cultures and ethnic groups and everyone really enjoys seeing other people appreciate their culture by taking part in it. I agree with the sentiment that cultural appropriation is more about the intent behind it, in the sense that it's more about trying to 'rebrand' someone's culture as your own, not so much just taking inspiration from it.
THANK YOU! Like OMG, absolutely THIS. It gets so frustrating to listen to those superfulous excuses to hate on I-dle and Soyeon specifically, it's insane.
5:59 I wasn't seeing anything wrong or culturally appropriating until this section. I consider that as them hashing out ideas but I really hope they went and actually did research on the numerous and various styles there are on the continent of Africa. Calling it Ethnic hip makes it sound like a fad instead of an experience they actually respect and yeah, the whole thing was very cringey😂. I hope they learned from that, though, and I really like their music and artistry! Alsoo, forgot to add, really awesome video as usual!!!
With them being my first ult, and with Soojin being my 2nd favorite out of them despite learning about them in late 2022, damn was your rant about "beef, not bullying" for those minutes absolutely cathartic. Also, I must have missed you first discussing this in the bullying in general video, and I'm also wondering how you felt when Soojin came back for her solo career. I must have teared up a dozen times that week.
Natasha babe, as a West Indian the henna is fine and you can tell how much I don’t care about it given that my whole channel is based on these lovelies. TLDR it’s okay in my opinion but ofc others may feel different
TYSM FOR SAYING THIS?? i saw ppl say that their music downgraded after soojin left but yk thats everyones personal preference but i feel like they have been slaying since day one and im so proud of my girls
i go to a british school in an arab country and every national day everyone, no matter their race, including the british teachers all get henna. as someone arab (henna is linked closely to arab culture) i don’t think henna is cultural appropriation at all 😭
The social commentary is why I love (G)-Idle, and I was sad to see that Soojin was kicked out. It was definitely a knee jerk reaction they could of just put her on hiatus and waited to see if the accusations were true or not. Instead they just got rid of her and looked stupid when it came out that the accusations were false. The actress was no doubt bitter and jealous that Soojin was more successful than her and wanted to cause pain in hopes it would boost her stardom.
The play on the song title Nude wasn't to stop people from searching for nude photos of idols, it was more than that, the way the group's name is spelled in Korean made searching for it with the word nude be like how you search for child p*rn. They said F you to child predators, which is very B@d@ss of them. I'm not a fan of their music, but i respect that.
1:50 I don't think wearing henna if you're not a brown/desi person makes it cultural appropriation by any means. As a brown person, I'm honestly pretty happy to see non-brown people wear something that's part of my culture such as henna's, saris and eating traditional food such as string hoppers and sweet rice. I remember in highschool, we had a kind of carnival of some sorts that had a henna station in it and it seems like it was accessible to everyone there not just limited to those who are desi/brown and the date they had this carnival was in the spring which I think is not in the timeframe of any major brown holidays
lovely video, i agree with all except the lyrics part I do not make fun of anyone having problems speaking and making mistakes in their second language in conversations or hastily posted comments or something. English is also my second language and i mess up regularly in everyday conversations. However, I do think that when writing lyrics there is no reason for them to be wrong or broken or whatever. You have weeks or months or however long it takes to craft them, you have access to the internet or to other speakers of the language to ask and correct any mistakes.
The British thing is so real 😭😭 like swearing is so common, all my family, teachers etc swear around the little kids; I don’t really get how swearing, smoking and drinking is so shocking in Korea
Im a latina 🇲🇽 and i personal love “señorita”. It’s so good plus i love when others enjoy and get inspiration from Mexican culture. We don’t get offended easily 😂
Also the english lyrics in Idles songs make sense. Her tomboy rap is about how men critisize women for not following the mysogonistic womens societial norms in sk and idle saying they will be themselves and not what men want. I dont want to play this ping pong - back and forth with you/ men who are mysogonistic. I would rather film a tiktok - do stjh that she likes or , if she dislikes tiktok still rather do uit than having to deal with these kind of men Tomboy literally is a woman being herself without neglecting their feminine side and not following what men/ partiachy wants women to be. and also the rap can be seen as what Soojin has been critisized for in the scandal (drinking, being out partying, being with boys) Tomboy is just as clever as NXDE Lyric wise jet ghaters often dismiss it without looking more in depth at it.
I really liked G-idle when they first debuted, but their first two albums ended up being the only ones I liked and I haven’t been into them since. However, My Bag is a banger. And Soojin was also my bias so now I’m following her solo career. As a black person, the cultural appropriation from them definitely rubbed me the wrong way and made me side eye them. But unfortunately, it was kinda like another Tuesday to me personally. And with the bullying, it was also just convenient that Soojin got exposed when a whole bunch of idols were getting accused out of the woodwork with most of them being baseless
I just want to say that as a lesbian, Oh My God never sounded as queerbaiting to me. It's not baiting if it gives you what it promises? I never thought about it as queerbaiting, I was just incredibly happy that there was a kpop song that was queer (at least in my reading of it), and it was my favorite song for so long. Also, real people cannot be "queerbait", because real people are not a product that can be sold (no matter how much kpop makes it seem as such).
Hi I wanted to ask you, do you have an other way to communicate with your viewers aside from instagram? Cause I would really like to speak with you but I don't want to download instagram again. (Btw I am 19)
As a lesbian, you definitely have a say in sapphic representation if you're a bi woman! And I promise you, every lesbian I know loves that song. It actuality helped me with some religious trauma related to sexuality, and it was done in the most beautiful way. Also, I majored in English, I'm an English teacher, and I'm currently learning a second and third language (seeking an ESL degree and trying to avoid American monolingualism 😭), and I love (G)I-DLE's lyrics!! Your defense of Soyeon's English is great because English is extremely hard compared to other languages as it breaks more rules than it follows. I work with some high school students learning English for the first time, and I see so many things come up that native English speakers don't realize are a hurdle for ESL speakers. How can we expect Soyeon to understand English adjective order for "My Bag" when it is extremely situational and breaks its own rules at times? Besides, many people who expect her to understand that "five red diamonds" is correct but "red five diamonds" is not are people who don't even know why those adjectives aren't supposed to flip, just that it "sounds wrong". The hate on Soyeon's English also comes across very eurocentric and xenophobic, but I digress. Also, what most people don't realize is that Soyeon does speak English decently, however she does what most songwriters/composers do and removes or adds words and changes pronounciation to fit the song. Her grammar is often English words structured in a way that follows Korean grammar patterns. I'm a huge linguistics nerd, so I find it fascinating. It's similar to Shakespeare in the wordplay and twisting of the English language, and I love it. Sorry for the long comment! I just love the lingustics of (G)I-DLE and I really appreciate your take on it!
i honestly don’t care about soyeon’s use of english in her lyrics being poor or unconventional. it’s not her native language and i assume a part of it is her taking creative liberties as an artist. sometimes you just have bend the rules a bit to make something work in what you’re creating. art is meant to be boundary breaking, after all. stuff like her rap in tomboy or “i clean your room, it’s so twinkle twinkle” in wife isn’t nonsensical if you are able to understand the points she’s trying to make. she’s a very intentional person and i respect her a lot for that. people pretend to care about her english skills when they turn a blind eye to their faves’ capabilities because they don’t have anything else they can pettily throw in her face for fanwars.
the first controversy about the desert doesn't make sense because they didn't say anything about that set or the dessert specifically [btw you're so pretty]
Showing a queer story isn't queerbaitng and just using elements from another culture isn't culture appropriation. Imo, the comments they made during queendom were the only valid complaint, they apologized and haven't repeated that behaviour since so like
Exactly! They fucked up once but made sure not to do it again. They actually learnt from that instance when there are lots of celebrities who didn't, including other idols and a lot of them don't get the same level of hatred.
can't speak much abt the ca as i'm not in those groups of peeps; but music-wise, my only real icky thing is the use of kimk and ari as comparison to our own beauty/hotness/cuteness wtv bcs do we not know who those women are beauty-wise? like yes they r beautiful n whatnot, but they've very much had surgery, and using them in a song abt self love and being a girls girl and whatnot... i don't know man, one's from a fam of beauty standards struggling with upkeeping said standards on themselves, and the other,.. well i don't exactly have as big of a problem w/ ari being mentioned but i'm pretty sure she also had surgery and whatnot?.. and idk, it might just be me going too deep into it, but it just makes me feel like that specific line is a bit hollow.. cause when you think kardashians, what do you think? money, surgery, lying about "not having anything done" and promoting shit weightloss stuff and other crappy items.
accusing people whose sexuality you don't know of queerbaiting is a bit homophobic. Because in order for someone to queerbait you have to assume that they are straight and assuming someone's sexuality is homophobic. As far as I know none of G-idle members have stated their sexuality publicly. I feel for G-idle fans because my favs (Dreamcatcher) are also being accused of queerbaiting by haters who obviously don't know anything about them because Yoohyeon has LITERALLY PUBLICLY said that she likes "hardworking PEOPLE" she even corrected the interviewer who said that she likes "hardworking MEN". Also as a lesbian I wouldn't have any problem with MVs like Oh my God even if all members were straight because music videos are a form of ACTING and gay/straight roles shouldn't just be reserved for actors of the same sexuality. We see it on TV a lot (the most popular example being Big bang theory where the main actor is gay man but plays a role of a straight man) so I don't see why should it be any different with music videos
Heavy on the part you said about people hating on Soyeon for her English, its just absolutely ridiculous as someone whose second language is English every thing u said is so completely on point. So thank you for saying that. Also i'm sorry about your breakup, is that why u changed ur username from natasha l. kim to natasha louise?
First: I hope you get better soon! This might be just my observation but I sometimes feel like that Korean or Asian dont really think about these kind of things of as cultural appropriation or being disrespectful, as they also love to share their culture. So for me it often looks like they just see something from a different culture and by using it, it's for them a form of respect and appreciated. I mostly see white persons throwing around "cultural appropriation" and then you read comments of people that affect i and they often say "No we dont see it as cultural appropriation" But again this is only my Observation. I can be totally wrong. And of course there are people who have a disrespect or do it as cultural appropriation. And also thank you! I started to learn english when I was 6. It is mandatory here learn a 2nd language and we all usually go wih English. I speak my mother tounge and then English almost fluenty + I learn Korean (In English and not in German). My brain often mixes English with German grammar, which why sometimes when I speak it sounds nested, because you can nested in German so much.
For clarity: A fire guard is a metal fence you put in front of a fireplace to stop kids or pets getting too close to the fire (or to put laundry on to dry it). Chocolate melts.
To be perfectly frank, I don't think any of the members in (G)I-DLE are lesbians or bisexual, but they clearly all are open and supportive of the gay community. Shuhua and Miyeon proudly "appreciate" other women and Soyeon writes multiple lyrics talking about stuff like this. With OMG, Soyeon kept the lyrics vague enough that people could interrupt what they wanted but the blanket theme was temptation. Having a member represent temptation isn't all that strange, but it just so happens that (G)I-DLE are a girl group... who had (at the time) one of the sexiest idols in the industry... who shares an intimate moment with the other members, especially the one who keeps claiming Soojin is hers. Sooo do with that as you will. We all know Soyeon is hyper specific on imagery and messaging so if we're seeing something a little fruity...I'm just saying. Lastly, I don't think it's queer baiting for several reasons. One: they are in conservative Korea trying to sell albums to the general public. Keep in mind that in this stage in their career (G)I-DLE was a mid-tier group who only just got there from their appearance on Queendom. The draw from international fans was decent but at the time their bread and butter IS Korea. I'm saying this to point out: who would they queer bait to in that scenario? Two: while Soyeon likes creating shock value to spark a conversation, she often does so to make a legit statement, not just for spectacle. The song is about societal pressures and temptation. In Korea, Soyeon seems to believe that women are objectified and oppressed, and she also thinks the say way about those different from the Korean social norm. Soooo OMG is Soyeon's earliest attempt to talk about a bigger issue, something she would take on again with Tomboy, NXDE, Allergy, Queencard etc etc etc. I think it says a lot that once Soyeon got a bigger voice, she used the voice to immediately talk about something important.
7:59 As one myself I honestly couldnt care less 😭 I love their music and them so much, and this doesn't come from bias but I don't find any problem with it. If you have a vision (especially in lyricism and song writing), by any means execute it to your best ability. Once again, we have absolutely no clue the girls' sexuality and even if they were all straight, that's imo not queerbating.
Queer person here, and honestly I hate how queerbaiting has completely lost its meaning. It's a film term used to describe series or movies where the writers purposely use queer relationships to get engagement, but have no intention of ever having any queer rep in their show or film. Imagine Supernatiral vs Good Omens. Supernatural had this extremely homoerotic friendship they advertised constantly, blurring the limits of romance and friendship for clicks. They never clarified what their relationship was, but one of the actors and the writers were openly homophobic, refused to make the relatinship gay, while profiting off of queer kids who just wanted to se a cannon gay relationship. Then they rubbed salt in the wound by having one of the characters confess their love in one of the last episodes, the other looking disgusted and then sending the gay one to the show's version of eternal hell and suffering. That's queerbaiting. Good Omens is a show where the two main leads have a lot of chemistry, that chemistry was heavily advertised, and people really wanted to see it happen. However, the writers waited and built on their relationship until it made sense for the leads to finally get together in later seasons. Even if the writers aren't queer, they made a show with a confirmed gay relationship that they never used just to get people to talk about the show, so it's not queerbaiting. See the difference? Its a concept to describe the pieces of media and how they're advertised, not a "well you can't make a queer piece of media because you aren't queer" term. My point is, people aren't queerbaiting by playing a queer character in an MV, for example, because the character is literally queer. They aren't pretending the character is queer for views, never confirmig what the song is about. Same goes for Oh my god. It's literally a song about women loving women. The members' sexualitues are irrelevant, because the song and MV are clearly and confirmed to be about a queer relationship. They were never playing into people talking about it being about lesbian relationships, only to constantly keep it hazy and never actually confirm their intentions. They never tried to pass the song as anything but a song about a type of love that's rarely celebrated in kpop. It isn't queerbaiting, it's literally a queer piece of media. Another song that does something similar is Monster by Seulgi and Irene. They never kiss in the MV, but they confirmed it was inspired by Carmilla, which is a lesbian vampire novel. The reason you don't hear it being called queerbaiting is because Seulgi and Irene are well liked, where Soyeon is someone the internet loves to hate for some reason. Kpop companies fetishising queer relationships for marketing is a whole different conversation, but it still wouldn't be queerbaiting, because idols are real people, not characters. We don't know their sexualities and we aren't entitled to that information. Companies using that to their advantage is disgusting, in my opinion, because it can put the idols in really uncomfortable situations, but it still isn't queerbaiting, because that's literally not what the term is applied to. You apply it to fictional pieces of media, ficitonal characters, not real people and their real sexualities.
![[#2024MAMA] (G)I-DLE - Super Lady (MAMA ver.) + Fate (MAMA ver.) | Mnet 241123](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/H0WnO1Hq2xk/mqdefault.jpg)
About the cultural appropriation thing, it's not that I "don't care about it". I just don't want to say something is cultural appropriation when it's not MY culture. It's not for me to decide!!!
its good to call out people when they do inappropriate things, but sometimes people mistake appropriation and appreciation i feel like.
❤😊
Thank u because idk why certain kpop tubers think they should speak on this when it has nothing to do with them 😭😭
@@abiStalli I'm neverrr going to be that girl. ever. you catch me doing that you slap me 💞
@Natasha.Louisee - Well said. Often it’s not even something for people within that culture to decide. Especially when the majority don’t agree on the difference between appropriation and appreciation. Many don’t take issue and in fact encourage others to participate in their culture. Yet it doesn’t stop individuals from being under the delusion that they are the personal gatekeepers and voice of an entire race or society.
Deletes paragraph*
But
Also as a desi person. Henna is not something that people should gatekeep and say it's cultural appropriation because when foreigners do henna or mehndi we honestly feel proud that our culture is being appreciated by foreigners. Idle didn't mock or rebrand henna they just did it. Anyone can do henna. It's not something only desi people can do. It's just something that is deeply rooted in our culture
this us his i fell about everything! i know it’s not rlly my place but for example dutch braids (i think it was dutch braids??) came from viking’s but no one ever says dark skinned people cant wear them?
As a desi person, second this! They talk specifically in behind the scenes how they did henna bcs it enhances their point choreography, there are no weird jokes about it, just a "hey this is a thing we tried from another culture"
Hi unrelated to the discussion but, I just wanted to know how you added a hyperlink to your comment🙂
Also, Minnie is from Thailand and henna is a part of her culture too.
@@sanonymous_003 I didn't, UA-cam did it. UA-cam does that now. It adds hyperlinks to certain popular words and if you click them they take you to a search.
I WAS SO SCARED IN THE START
@@sumitsukira hahah gotcha
Lmao, I always scan the comments if I suspect a clickbait title, so it's thanks to yours that I get a heads up of what I'm actually expecting xD
i'm indian and with henna it really just depends on the exact situation. with gidle i would say it's not cultural appropriation at all. henna isn't some sacred thing reserved for weddings. plenty of people just get henna for the aesthetic too and this is true across many cultures that use henna for temporary tattoos. when i was a kid i would literally just get it for fun. imo it's only a problem if they're mocking it or trying to pretend it's not connected to indian culture (or alternatively, whatever other henna wearing culture they took inspiration from). same with bindis. it's kind of odd to see henna and bindis styled with non traditional clothes but that's cultural appropriation in the literal, very neutral sense of the word. it's not negative unless they're disrespectful.
henna particularly as well is used by plenty of people in non traditional ways. like i've been to so many indian cultural fairs etc where foreigners often prefer to get non traditional henna designs and that's completely fine as well! at the end of the day henna is just a tool and as long as peopel are respectful it's okay. indian people are very willing to share our culture with people wanting to learn and appreciate.
edit: also, geniunely some people have gone in so hard on preventing cultural appropriation that they are literally advocating for segregation. simply standing in front of a building built in a style not native to your country of origin to film a music video is not cultural appropriation. adopting artistic elements from other cultures is not cutlural appropriation. we only need to sound the alarm bells when people are doing something morally objectionable. trying to make a song inspired by 90s hip hop or latin music is not unethical or morally wrong. people take inspiration from everywhere. the emphasis needs to be on doing it in a respectful way and understanding where your limits are as an artist and as someone who is an outsider to that culture. the "ethnic hip" thing was wrong because it was disrespectful and stereotyping an entire continent with countless cultures and music styles, not because soyeon thought they should take inspiration from a culture she is an outsider to.
genuinely, i have known people who think like this and they are some of the most racist people you will ever meet. they just camoflage their racism in the language of social justice and respecting other people's cultures. but they'll be people saying they don't listen to hip hop because it's for black people, and people saying they don't eat indian food because that's for indian people, and people saying they don't watch any french movies, because those are only for french people. i literally was friends with someone like this and whenever i tried to share freaking bollywood movies which are not even a cultural touchstone so much as a capitalist profit making machine that hindi speakers are familiar with, this woman was literally saying she didn't want to watch it because she's not indian so she "wouldn't get it". sounding the cultural appropriation alarm every time someone parttakes in an unfamiliar culture is insane and i fully mean that. people are alive today who are completely fucking convinced that even interacting with a culture you didn't grow up in is a moral wrong. and those are the people deciding to call gidle out for wearing henna of all things. we need to focus our energy on ACTUAL fuck ups.
ALSO. i'm queer and genuinely real people cannot queer bait. kind of looking gay in a music video is not queerbaiting. their sexuality doesn't matter. you people have lost the plot. queer baiting is dangling the possibility of queer representation in front of audiences to get them to watch/read your thing and then not following through by not having representation. like sherlock bbc constantly teasing holmes and watson's relationship as being romantic and never following through. real people can't queer bait.
Hey human
Love how raw and personal this response is, I do hope you're healing in some way or another. wishing ya all of the best 🩵🩵🩵🩵🩵
sad to hear abt the breakup, hope everything is okay 😞 sending love 🤍
As Soyeon said in her MAMA intro "(G)i-dle are one, we are lady power"! Love them sm
Actually, Soyeon did had a statement somewhere where she said if she got attracted to a woman, she wouldn't think about "why am i attracted to women?", she'd just go with the flow instead. So yes, whether it's a man or a woman, she wouldn't think of the gender rather instead her attraction to that person matters.
I'm a lesbian, and I was sosososo happy when I first listened to Oh My God!!
It's not queerbaiting, it's very explicitly just queer- queerbaiting means making viewers think something queer is going on through subtext and then never following through with it.
But they use female pronouns throughout the song- that's not subtext at all.
Soyeon also stated that she's very open minded when it comes to queerness and said she wouldn't be surprised if she ever fell for a woman. So yeah! Love her!
As a bisexual, rather then queerbaiting i felt like in “oh my god” they were more representing the lesbian/bisexual community and i really appreciate that. I always love when artists start showing signs of homosexuality in their music/mvs. Also, im really sorry for your breakup! Wish you well
Glad you're back! Sorry to hear about the breakup, sending my love and well wishes 💗
@@alice_collier thank you~ it’s kind of draining but UA-cam is a good outlet for me
Wait what happened 😢
Wait what breakup
THANK YOU for speaking out for the "cringe English lyrics" like ugh i always see people say that when they don't know how to align a 5 words sentence in any another language like god shut up 😤😤 no i did not woke up one day being able to read, speak, write and listen to English. It took approximately 10/15 years of my life to get to that level by consuming a tones of english content every single day.
Also I'm sorry to hear about your separation i hope you're in a good place
I feel like so many people mix up appreciation and appropriation. I feel like Soyeon genuinely liked the cultures and traditions in them when she took inspiration. It seems way more like she was just trying to implement them and get more people exposed to them, while trying to remain as respectful as possible.
Very similar to how kpop shows parts of Korean culture and some kpop stans will start to integrate that into their lives without really noticing all that much. Or in Japan, you can go to specific stores to get traditional Kimonos, that’s appreciating their culture not appropriating.
I think Soyeon can sound insensitive or not implement her appreciation in the best ways sometimes, but anyone looking at another culture or trying to do anything with a different culture would probably do the same
I'm a Lesbian. And I'm in love with Oh My God. It's my favourite song of theirs actually! It made me feel ... idk how to explain it but 'heard'.
I could be biased since I'm a Neverland, but I don't think Oh My God was a queer-baiting song. Oh My God was supposed to be very 'open to interpretation' song, and I think Soyeon definitely did it on purpose to change the pronouns to 'she' instead of 'he' in the song. It's called the 'Lesbian Anthem' for a reason.
And I stand by this saying: People just hate successful women.
I know that the kpop fans HATE Soyeon, I knew that since forever, and I try my best to limit myself from those types of people because I really like i-dle's music. Soyeon's music always speaks to me in a way that other music don't, and I'm really sad that I'm very unsure about their future. I want them to stay together, and I want Soojin to comeback to i-dle.
I'm bisexual and Oh My God is my favorite song by them too. Felt good to see a sapphic representation in kpop ❤
The way that people online just despise Soyeon…
Like if you don’t like her music or if you don’t vibe with something she said that’s fine, but the way people relentlessly try to drag her down just screams misogyny
I’m Arab but I don’t think henna is cultural appropriation. it’s art, and art is ment to be shared. I was happy seeing them with henna in the mv, it looked so pretty!
The craziest thing to me about the whole bullying scandal to me is that it wasnt even highschool. It was middle school. Imagine your carreer being ruined cause you got into an argument with a girl in middle school.
We cant really know what happened. It is very likely that if there was bullying it wasnt to the extent claimed and theres a lot of reason to doubt it happened to begin with, but if she did everything she was accused of as a 13 year old girl, then grew up and acted better, thats the more important thing in my book, and by all accounts Soojin was a pretty stand up person
In the court case the police dismissed it because apparently there was "no evidence" online. But they did exposed that Soojin was a victim of bullying by her school's records. She did admit to the smoking thing (which is like a one time thing which many people get it since smoking and drinking people just get curious with that and she tried it and never liked it since). So the school records was able to prove her innocence, but idk why the police dropped the whole thing especially when there was a clip of the so called "victims" doing gestures of trying to hurt Soojin while listening to (G)I-DLE's music (which is hypocritical because on of their statements was that they get traumatized every time they hear the group's music because of Soojin, which is a whole lie lol.)
@@MalKwinmov The reason they dropped it is cause they couldn't prove that it was done with malicious intent, and not just a recontextualizing of a past event. There was no evidence of what actually happened, just 2 people's wods against each other.
@@WeisenheimerJack Yeah I knew that. I just maybe seeing the threats the "victims" were making would've made them guilty and also a lot of their inaccuracies. The case couldn't show which side was right or wrong, but I'm glad the school's records proved her innocence in the end.
@@WeisenheimerJack I'm referring to about how the "victims" could've gotten in trouble for false evidence.
@@MalKwinmov so am I! Basically they couldn't prove that it was libel or misremembering
I feel like the definition of cultural appropriation varies a lot depending on where you‘re from. For example I, a person from Germany, don‘t see things like traditional make up from other cultures or hairstyles as cultural appropriation, IF you don’t try to claim it as something that it isn‘t or mock the culture in your behaviour or speech. Here i have met a lot of people of other cultures that encourage this ,actually (not cultural appropriation). For example at fairs or festivals there are people of color who offer to braid your hair or do your make up in the style of their culture.
The line between cultural appropriation and appreciation is very thin and a lot of people use that as an excuse to accuse people of cultural appropriation if it actually isn‘t.
This is just my point of view tho.
hi, indian person here - mendhi / henna is not cultural appropriation! it's meant to be aesthetic but it has history so as long as you understand that and do a little research then you're all good! also pls don't call us desi, cuz it makes no sense coming from someone non-indian cuz it directly translates to "my people / nationals" and indians are very clearly not your people 😭 just call us indian / south asian xx
Hi! Opinion from a teacher from the UK.
I've had to oversee bullying cases and I was bullied when I was in school.
Bullying never leaves you, the things people poke fun at you for can become complexes.
Verbal bullying is a complicated topic,
When a student says they've been bullied we have meetings about it before taking action.
Context is a big part of verbal bullying, for example we've had two incidents of a student calling another student an insult (the one relating to how they sleep with others). One was just a random insult commented on another's instagram post, the other was a personal insult to a student that was assaulted.
Both are hurtful insults. Both were cases of bullying. Both were very diverse in complexity. But both can be described as harassment.
And that's it, bullying is a form of harassment, telling someone to f-off once? Not an issue. Telling them 10 times? Very different.
In short, it'd only be bullying if Soojin did this sort of thing to one student specifically, but by the sounds of things she didn't. Thought that being said, we will never know what truly happened so it's best not to speculate.
But anyway sorry for the long comment, I'm just very passionate about this! Really love this video, it feels so nice for someone to explain their thoughts rather then giving no reasoning behind their statements. PS: Your skin is so clear! I need to know your skincare routine 🥲❤
YOU GOT DIVORCED?!
Divorce is a long process. We broke up about a month ago~ I'm trying to not think about it 😭
@@Natasha.Louisee No wonder you changed your channel name 😭 Keep shining queen, we'll always support you
@@Natasha.Louisee Oh shoot, as someone new and less familiar with your channel, this still obligates me to send all the love I can your way..
What was the previous name of the channel? @@koto2u
WHAT!!!!!! Why noooo i sorry
Sorry about your breakup btw. I hope you are doing well and I wish you the best and a nice week. 💕💕💕💕
As an arab (Middle eastern AND north african) no henna isnt cultural appropria5ion its art its meant to be shared not gatekept
Queerbaiting is, and will always be, about fictional media. A series that hints a gay relationship and never makes it canon= queerbaiting. A game that publicized itself as openly queer just to end up having zero real queer characters= queerbating. A song that portrays wlw, actual wlw ≠ queerbaiting.
And also, people can't queerbait. Sexuality is fluid and personal, you cant assume if people is straight or queer just because of the "vibes" you get from them.
Oh my God is a banger too.😊
I personally enjoy the way soyeon utilizes english in her songs. I think it does well to still keep a kpop-feel to the music while also globalizing it, because other groups utilize english so much and so clearly that it sounds more like an american pop song. I also think she uses english more as an emphasis to certain words/phrases so that everyone understands whats being said, like the intro to nxde, instead of including english to make it easy on the tiktok algorithm like other groups do...
3:47 idk if we had different TLs, but on my, they got called out for it. People voiced their disappointment, and as always, jokes were made how they couldn't stop offending people. NCT also has a huge list of racism and cultural appropriation.
Yeah I remember people telling others to boycott the album especially because of all the protests going on in 2020. being a poc nctzen then was rough
The conversations around cultural appropriation in kpop is one of the most exhausting things ever. Like as a black person literally most if not all of what we know as kpop is taken from black culture the clothes, hairs, lyrics, production, music, aesthetics its a lot. I dont mind a some of the use of black culture obviously because art is ment to be transformitve but knowing how black people are treated in Korea and the kpop community it makes me soooo uncomfortable to see it. Though i am starting to see more black people in behind the scenes stuff in kpop which gives me more hope as in my opinion one of the parts that makes cultural appropriation so bad is the culture erasure that comes with it
Same as a black Kpop fan sometimes the ignorance is so hard to see with idols 😭. I think a lot of the time it is ignorance rather than genuine hatred and racism (not that ignorance is much better) but so many Kpop fans don’t know the difference at all (my guess is because a lot of them are white so don’t know the difference bc they don’t experience it)
I’m so sorry to hear about your breakup, choosing what’s best for you can be difficult but it’s always the right choice. Sending positive energy your way💖💕
What breakup?
Happens when you get married in the puppy love phase
@@dawn3589they were together for multipule years i’m pretty sure… so they weren’t in the ‘honeymoon’ phase or whatever people love to say. they might have just grown apart or realised they had different life goals… you need to stop projecting
@@dawn3589bruh how do yk that's what they did 🙄
I mean… yes some of the stuff that Soojin was accused of was wrong (I don’t believe the accusations though). BUT I don’t think something you do in high school when you’re young, impressionable, and do stupid things. should determine or define who you are NOW as a person (depending on how bad it is). Soojin is a fully grown women now and within that time of her being in high school and to now, has most likely grown and developed has a person. Everything you do as a high schooler, when your brain isn’t even fully developed, shouldn’t determine if you have a successful career. It’s not fair to strip her of that just because she wasn’t a perfect and nice teenager. I don’t think victims of bullying should have to hide the fact that they were bullied. They were the victim and if they want to share their story that is completely fine. BUT I don’t think the idol or celebrity should be kicked out of their group and fired from their literal job. Especially if what they’re being accused of isn’t proven to be true and or has no evidence.
Love this take. Took the words from my mouth
You know what? You got me at the start. You got me good. Respect for rickrolling me in 2024.
the fact that apparently nct's make a wish didn't get as much hate when they did all that at a mosque-adjacent infrastructure compared to hann is... it sure is something
heyo, just on a sidenote from one bisexual woman to another: I wouldn't call the imagery used in oh my god "lesbian relationship" imagery, simply because women who love women can be, you know, other sexualities than lesbian, e.g. bisexual, pansexual,... I like the term women who love women for that and I personally do get sad when seeing stuff like this labeled as lesbian, so that I am just left out of the conversation
Sapphic is another word used to describe wlw content and relationships, especially when the subject isn't specifically about lesbians, but includes other orientations.
I'm 44 years old and i pretty much agree on everything you mentionned, here's for the so callled generation gap :)
I'll add that Idle are one of the most genuine live vocalist i saw on Kpop Girls group.( Soyeon & Minnie on 2024 MAMA superlady are just an example to follow in my book).
Also about culture appropriation i'm pretty much siding with your opinion, but i'm feeling bad that if someone takes like French, Bristish, or any east european country references in clips or lyrics, the cultural appropriation almost never comes in. If Korean artist references French culture is'nt considered as culture appropriation, why Korean artists referencing India or Moroco would be ? their relations to those culture are pretty much the same in my opinion so again, i feel subjectives , free, out of context criticism and i despise that.
Their probably the only K-pop Girl group with all the members involved in their music & choregraphy conception since pretty much their debut, i have nothing but a infinite respect for their work.
I think the reason why fans get more upset when countries like India or Morocco get references compared to countries like france is the racism part of it. Portrayals of more ethnic countries tend to get mocked quicker than western countries so ppl are a lot more quick to point it out.
As an African Kpop fan my first reaction is usually disappointment rather than excitement when a Kpop idol mentions Africa since they usually say something ignorant. I do agree though that Kpop fans are too quick to call the racism or cultural appropriation card when most of the time it’s just ignorance (which isn’t much better but is still different)
gidle were also dancing in the bg of a mosque which is a holy place for muslims to worship and pray. it wasn't directly their fault but it's still highly offensive.
You got me. I was got.
Get Rick rolllllllled 😌❤️
As someone who learnt English as a second language and got an English degree, I'd like to chime in on that last part! While I totally agree with your sentiment when it comes to people just speaking casually, it does rub me the wrong way when artists (especially ones with the budget and ressources Idle has) put out content like music with broken english (or any other language), because with the amount of time and effort put into the song, you would think they would invest at least a little bit of time to find a qualified english speaker to correct their grammatical mistakes. While I don't expect Shakespearian levels of lyricism from song writers (not everyone can be Hozier), I feel like since it's such an important part of a song the least you can do is get it to be gramatically correct. There's no shortage of native english speakers in the kpop industry who could help, like how Dawn went to Jessie with his debut song and asked her to correct his English lyrics. So yeah, just my two cents :) Also great video and sorry to hear about your break up, I wish you healing ❤️
As another person who doesn't speaks English as a native language, I politely ask you to actually study Shakespear. He literally twisted spelling of words and invented names like Jessica. He is the very example of someone who impacted the English language without it being 100% correct in his timeperiod.
@inferiorinferno8859 I did study Shakespeare :) and playing with a language you know the rules of is vastly different from making mistakes.
OMG u scared me at the start😭😭 and no henna is not cultural appropriation loads of people wear henna even if they are not from the place. Also you broke up?!?!?!
I think cultural appropriation really is a term being thrown around now, especially in kpop. I live in a community with a lot of different cultures and ethnic groups and everyone really enjoys seeing other people appreciate their culture by taking part in it. I agree with the sentiment that cultural appropriation is more about the intent behind it, in the sense that it's more about trying to 'rebrand' someone's culture as your own, not so much just taking inspiration from it.
THANK YOU! Like OMG, absolutely THIS. It gets so frustrating to listen to those superfulous excuses to hate on I-dle and Soyeon specifically, it's insane.
5:59 I wasn't seeing anything wrong or culturally appropriating until this section. I consider that as them hashing out ideas but I really hope they went and actually did research on the numerous and various styles there are on the continent of Africa.
Calling it Ethnic hip makes it sound like a fad instead of an experience they actually respect and yeah, the whole thing was very cringey😂. I hope they learned from that, though, and I really like their music and artistry!
Alsoo, forgot to add, really awesome video as usual!!!
With them being my first ult, and with Soojin being my 2nd favorite out of them despite learning about them in late 2022, damn was your rant about "beef, not bullying" for those minutes absolutely cathartic.
Also, I must have missed you first discussing this in the bullying in general video, and I'm also wondering how you felt when Soojin came back for her solo career. I must have teared up a dozen times that week.
7:55 u broke up omg;;; i thought y’all were married 😥😢.also pls make one for BP they have so many scandals esp j3nnie
Natasha babe, as a West Indian the henna is fine and you can tell how much I don’t care about it given that my whole channel is based on these lovelies. TLDR it’s okay in my opinion but ofc others may feel different
TYSM FOR SAYING THIS?? i saw ppl say that their music downgraded after soojin left but yk thats everyones personal preference but i feel like they have been slaying since day one and im so proud of my girls
i go to a british school in an arab country and every national day everyone, no matter their race, including the british teachers all get henna. as someone arab (henna is linked closely to arab culture) i don’t think henna is cultural appropriation at all 😭
SAME 😭 legit happened yesterday 💀
New subscriber! Just discovered your channel- girl you are jaw-droppingly stunning and you have such good vibes! Keep it up queen 👸
The social commentary is why I love (G)-Idle, and I was sad to see that Soojin was kicked out. It was definitely a knee jerk reaction they could of just put her on hiatus and waited to see if the accusations were true or not. Instead they just got rid of her and looked stupid when it came out that the accusations were false. The actress was no doubt bitter and jealous that Soojin was more successful than her and wanted to cause pain in hopes it would boost her stardom.
Ma'am, I almost had a heart attack there. 😅😂
also as a southeast asian i litch used to always get henna, so i don’t believe so
As a desi person i love when people do henna i love doing it on my friends and i was so glad in 2018 when i saw them with henna on in latata 😭
The play on the song title Nude wasn't to stop people from searching for nude photos of idols, it was more than that, the way the group's name is spelled in Korean made searching for it with the word nude be like how you search for child p*rn. They said F you to child predators, which is very B@d@ss of them. I'm not a fan of their music, but i respect that.
1:50 I don't think wearing henna if you're not a brown/desi person makes it cultural appropriation by any means. As a brown person, I'm honestly pretty happy to see non-brown people wear something that's part of my culture such as henna's, saris and eating traditional food such as string hoppers and sweet rice.
I remember in highschool, we had a kind of carnival of some sorts that had a henna station in it and it seems like it was accessible to everyone there not just limited to those who are desi/brown and the date they had this carnival was in the spring which I think is not in the timeframe of any major brown holidays
lovely video, i agree with all except the lyrics part
I do not make fun of anyone having problems speaking and making mistakes in their second language in conversations or hastily posted comments or something. English is also my second language and i mess up regularly in everyday conversations.
However, I do think that when writing lyrics there is no reason for them to be wrong or broken or whatever. You have weeks or months or however long it takes to craft them, you have access to the internet or to other speakers of the language to ask and correct any mistakes.
sorry about the break up.. hope you keep well 🤍
Welcome baacckk !! 🖤
@@Jwnprk666 thank you love~
@@Natasha.Louisee
as an arab, henna is a cultural thing but we love to share and make ppl wear it
The British thing is so real 😭😭 like swearing is so common, all my family, teachers etc swear around the little kids; I don’t really get how swearing, smoking and drinking is so shocking in Korea
Im a latina 🇲🇽 and i personal love “señorita”. It’s so good plus i love when others enjoy and get inspiration from Mexican culture. We don’t get offended easily 😂
Also the english lyrics in Idles songs make sense.
Her tomboy rap is about how men critisize women for not following the mysogonistic womens societial norms in sk and idle saying they will be themselves and not what men want.
I dont want to play this ping pong - back and forth with you/ men who are mysogonistic.
I would rather film a tiktok - do stjh that she likes or , if she dislikes tiktok still rather do uit than having to deal with these kind of men
Tomboy literally is a woman being herself without neglecting their feminine side and not following what men/ partiachy wants women to be.
and also the rap can be seen as what Soojin has been critisized for in the scandal (drinking, being out partying, being with boys)
Tomboy is just as clever as NXDE Lyric wise jet ghaters often dismiss it without looking more in depth at it.
I really liked G-idle when they first debuted, but their first two albums ended up being the only ones I liked and I haven’t been into them since. However, My Bag is a banger. And Soojin was also my bias so now I’m following her solo career. As a black person, the cultural appropriation from them definitely rubbed me the wrong way and made me side eye them. But unfortunately, it was kinda like another Tuesday to me personally. And with the bullying, it was also just convenient that Soojin got exposed when a whole bunch of idols were getting accused out of the woodwork with most of them being baseless
That ethnic comment was very tone death and I hope they learned that it was and don't repeat it again.
@ Yeah, very out of pocket
I just want to say that as a lesbian, Oh My God never sounded as queerbaiting to me. It's not baiting if it gives you what it promises? I never thought about it as queerbaiting, I was just incredibly happy that there was a kpop song that was queer (at least in my reading of it), and it was my favorite song for so long. Also, real people cannot be "queerbait", because real people are not a product that can be sold (no matter how much kpop makes it seem as such).
For senorita she also worked with people of that culture
Hi I wanted to ask you, do you have an other way to communicate with your viewers aside from instagram? Cause I would really like to speak with you but I don't want to download instagram again. (Btw I am 19)
As a lesbian, you definitely have a say in sapphic representation if you're a bi woman! And I promise you, every lesbian I know loves that song. It actuality helped me with some religious trauma related to sexuality, and it was done in the most beautiful way.
Also, I majored in English, I'm an English teacher, and I'm currently learning a second and third language (seeking an ESL degree and trying to avoid American monolingualism 😭), and I love (G)I-DLE's lyrics!! Your defense of Soyeon's English is great because English is extremely hard compared to other languages as it breaks more rules than it follows. I work with some high school students learning English for the first time, and I see so many things come up that native English speakers don't realize are a hurdle for ESL speakers. How can we expect Soyeon to understand English adjective order for "My Bag" when it is extremely situational and breaks its own rules at times? Besides, many people who expect her to understand that "five red diamonds" is correct but "red five diamonds" is not are people who don't even know why those adjectives aren't supposed to flip, just that it "sounds wrong". The hate on Soyeon's English also comes across very eurocentric and xenophobic, but I digress.
Also, what most people don't realize is that Soyeon does speak English decently, however she does what most songwriters/composers do and removes or adds words and changes pronounciation to fit the song. Her grammar is often English words structured in a way that follows Korean grammar patterns. I'm a huge linguistics nerd, so I find it fascinating. It's similar to Shakespeare in the wordplay and twisting of the English language, and I love it.
Sorry for the long comment! I just love the lingustics of (G)I-DLE and I really appreciate your take on it!
Dont give me a heart attack like that pookie 😔
Wow, what a difference to your background. That looks great! 💟
As someone who is Lesbian, I loved the omg mv
Idle is one of my favorites, I didn't really like them until I heard their bsides, they're so creative and yuqis voice is amazing
🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺 oh nuuuu, i hope you're healing natasha, if you need an ear to be heard, please feel free to reach out to me at any point
i honestly don’t care about soyeon’s use of english in her lyrics being poor or unconventional. it’s not her native language and i assume a part of it is her taking creative liberties as an artist. sometimes you just have bend the rules a bit to make something work in what you’re creating. art is meant to be boundary breaking, after all. stuff like her rap in tomboy or “i clean your room, it’s so twinkle twinkle” in wife isn’t nonsensical if you are able to understand the points she’s trying to make. she’s a very intentional person and i respect her a lot for that. people pretend to care about her english skills when they turn a blind eye to their faves’ capabilities because they don’t have anything else they can pettily throw in her face for fanwars.
the first controversy about the desert doesn't make sense because they didn't say anything about that set or the dessert specifically [btw you're so pretty]
desert* you spelt it like the sweet kind of dessert :)
@@cupidvalentinesubs ty it was auto correct lol
Showing a queer story isn't queerbaitng and just using elements from another culture isn't culture appropriation.
Imo, the comments they made during queendom were the only valid complaint, they apologized and haven't repeated that behaviour since so like
Exactly! They fucked up once but made sure not to do it again. They actually learnt from that instance when there are lots of celebrities who didn't, including other idols and a lot of them don't get the same level of hatred.
can't speak much abt the ca as i'm not in those groups of peeps; but music-wise, my only real icky thing is the use of kimk and ari as comparison to our own beauty/hotness/cuteness wtv bcs do we not know who those women are beauty-wise? like yes they r beautiful n whatnot, but they've very much had surgery, and using them in a song abt self love and being a girls girl and whatnot... i don't know man, one's from a fam of beauty standards struggling with upkeeping said standards on themselves, and the other,.. well i don't exactly have as big of a problem w/ ari being mentioned but i'm pretty sure she also had surgery and whatnot?.. and idk, it might just be me going too deep into it, but it just makes me feel like that specific line is a bit hollow.. cause when you think kardashians, what do you think? money, surgery, lying about "not having anything done" and promoting shit weightloss stuff and other crappy items.
accusing people whose sexuality you don't know of queerbaiting is a bit homophobic. Because in order for someone to queerbait you have to assume that they are straight and assuming someone's sexuality is homophobic. As far as I know none of G-idle members have stated their sexuality publicly. I feel for G-idle fans because my favs (Dreamcatcher) are also being accused of queerbaiting by haters who obviously don't know anything about them because Yoohyeon has LITERALLY PUBLICLY said that she likes "hardworking PEOPLE" she even corrected the interviewer who said that she likes "hardworking MEN". Also as a lesbian I wouldn't have any problem with MVs like Oh my God even if all members were straight because music videos are a form of ACTING and gay/straight roles shouldn't just be reserved for actors of the same sexuality. We see it on TV a lot (the most popular example being Big bang theory where the main actor is gay man but plays a role of a straight man) so I don't see why should it be any different with music videos
Heavy on the part you said about people hating on Soyeon for her English, its just absolutely ridiculous as someone whose second language is English every thing u said is so completely on point. So thank you for saying that. Also i'm sorry about your breakup, is that why u changed ur username from natasha l. kim to natasha louise?
First: I hope you get better soon!
This might be just my observation but I sometimes feel like that Korean or Asian dont really think about these kind of things of as cultural appropriation or being disrespectful, as they also love to share their culture. So for me it often looks like they just see something from a different culture and by using it, it's for them a form of respect and appreciated. I mostly see white persons throwing around "cultural appropriation" and then you read comments of people that affect i and they often say "No we dont see it as cultural appropriation" But again this is only my Observation. I can be totally wrong. And of course there are people who have a disrespect or do it as cultural appropriation.
And also thank you! I started to learn english when I was 6. It is mandatory here learn a 2nd language and we all usually go wih English. I speak my mother tounge and then English almost fluenty + I learn Korean (In English and not in German). My brain often mixes English with German grammar, which why sometimes when I speak it sounds nested, because you can nested in German so much.
Not me finding one of my favorites groups debuted on my birthday ❤
Your hair looks so shiny it’s unreal drop the routine please 😭🩷
Girl wait a sec I thought you were married?? Anyway, hope you're doing well now 💜
They are married, they just broke up. Divorce is a long and difficult process
in high school i would literally get beat up by this other student, do i still hate him? hell no i grew up and moved on
hey bestie hope you are doing well
Best well known (at least I think it is) insult: As useful as a chocolate fire guard
For clarity: A fire guard is a metal fence you put in front of a fireplace to stop kids or pets getting too close to the fire (or to put laundry on to dry it). Chocolate melts.
Possibly the origin of calling someone a melt
Gidle are real lgbtq+ allies. So OMG is a representation of their belief not queerbaiting.
SO GLAD YOUR BACK
Ah yes, the British swearing. Reminds me of when an American asked whether saying "the c-word" was cultural appropriation
To be perfectly frank, I don't think any of the members in (G)I-DLE are lesbians or bisexual, but they clearly all are open and supportive of the gay community. Shuhua and Miyeon proudly "appreciate" other women and Soyeon writes multiple lyrics talking about stuff like this. With OMG, Soyeon kept the lyrics vague enough that people could interrupt what they wanted but the blanket theme was temptation. Having a member represent temptation isn't all that strange, but it just so happens that (G)I-DLE are a girl group... who had (at the time) one of the sexiest idols in the industry... who shares an intimate moment with the other members, especially the one who keeps claiming Soojin is hers. Sooo do with that as you will. We all know Soyeon is hyper specific on imagery and messaging so if we're seeing something a little fruity...I'm just saying.
Lastly, I don't think it's queer baiting for several reasons. One: they are in conservative Korea trying to sell albums to the general public. Keep in mind that in this stage in their career (G)I-DLE was a mid-tier group who only just got there from their appearance on Queendom. The draw from international fans was decent but at the time their bread and butter IS Korea. I'm saying this to point out: who would they queer bait to in that scenario? Two: while Soyeon likes creating shock value to spark a conversation, she often does so to make a legit statement, not just for spectacle. The song is about societal pressures and temptation. In Korea, Soyeon seems to believe that women are objectified and oppressed, and she also thinks the say way about those different from the Korean social norm. Soooo OMG is Soyeon's earliest attempt to talk about a bigger issue, something she would take on again with Tomboy, NXDE, Allergy, Queencard etc etc etc. I think it says a lot that once Soyeon got a bigger voice, she used the voice to immediately talk about something important.
7:59 As one myself I honestly couldnt care less 😭 I love their music and them so much, and this doesn't come from bias but I don't find any problem with it. If you have a vision (especially in lyricism and song writing), by any means execute it to your best ability. Once again, we have absolutely no clue the girls' sexuality and even if they were all straight, that's imo not queerbating.
12:43 What's even funnier is that Seo Shin-ae (Or whatever her name is) fell off 😭😭
thank you for blessing me on this fine monday with ur damn face card
Had us in the first half, not gonna lie.
damn you were cooking in the first part ngl & then 📉
WELCOME BACKKKK BABES
Girl your really testing the algorithm with this one😂 please be careful with these titles
I love luring in the haters then smacking them with my positivity towards the group 😂
YOU GUYS BROKE UP!?
GIRL YOU SCARED ME WITH THE TITLE AND INTRO 😭💀
Queer person here, and honestly I hate how queerbaiting has completely lost its meaning. It's a film term used to describe series or movies where the writers purposely use queer relationships to get engagement, but have no intention of ever having any queer rep in their show or film. Imagine Supernatiral vs Good Omens. Supernatural had this extremely homoerotic friendship they advertised constantly, blurring the limits of romance and friendship for clicks. They never clarified what their relationship was, but one of the actors and the writers were openly homophobic, refused to make the relatinship gay, while profiting off of queer kids who just wanted to se a cannon gay relationship. Then they rubbed salt in the wound by having one of the characters confess their love in one of the last episodes, the other looking disgusted and then sending the gay one to the show's version of eternal hell and suffering. That's queerbaiting. Good Omens is a show where the two main leads have a lot of chemistry, that chemistry was heavily advertised, and people really wanted to see it happen. However, the writers waited and built on their relationship until it made sense for the leads to finally get together in later seasons. Even if the writers aren't queer, they made a show with a confirmed gay relationship that they never used just to get people to talk about the show, so it's not queerbaiting. See the difference? Its a concept to describe the pieces of media and how they're advertised, not a "well you can't make a queer piece of media because you aren't queer" term.
My point is, people aren't queerbaiting by playing a queer character in an MV, for example, because the character is literally queer. They aren't pretending the character is queer for views, never confirmig what the song is about. Same goes for Oh my god. It's literally a song about women loving women. The members' sexualitues are irrelevant, because the song and MV are clearly and confirmed to be about a queer relationship. They were never playing into people talking about it being about lesbian relationships, only to constantly keep it hazy and never actually confirm their intentions. They never tried to pass the song as anything but a song about a type of love that's rarely celebrated in kpop. It isn't queerbaiting, it's literally a queer piece of media. Another song that does something similar is Monster by Seulgi and Irene. They never kiss in the MV, but they confirmed it was inspired by Carmilla, which is a lesbian vampire novel. The reason you don't hear it being called queerbaiting is because Seulgi and Irene are well liked, where Soyeon is someone the internet loves to hate for some reason.
Kpop companies fetishising queer relationships for marketing is a whole different conversation, but it still wouldn't be queerbaiting, because idols are real people, not characters. We don't know their sexualities and we aren't entitled to that information. Companies using that to their advantage is disgusting, in my opinion, because it can put the idols in really uncomfortable situations, but it still isn't queerbaiting, because that's literally not what the term is applied to. You apply it to fictional pieces of media, ficitonal characters, not real people and their real sexualities.
Girl I need a story time on why you guys broke up plsss (yeah I'm nosey 😔)
oh my god, i was scared-
I started this video and I was like “this cannot be a diss this girl is too pretty”
Pretty people love G-idle!!!!!!!!!
Hi Natasha please cover evn on seunghan and the things which happened to mama la briize 😢😢
Breakup!? Gurl I'm shock