I think you've got bike races mixed up with motor sports. The slipstream is a crucial part of the race and thus it's more about positioning and timing and less about running the fastest and taking curves. Flamme Rouge simulates this brilliantly and it finally feels like an actual bike race. Just wanted to point that part out, so you don't compare it to racing car games. I think that's why you were put off by what this game delivers.
This is for me one of the best racing games I've played this year. Important to note that it's a family style game. I've had zero problem with the shuffling in the game or the lack of exitment. Sure you don't roll dice but the feeling of building tension as you know that the cards you play go out of the game and get replaced with exhaustion cards, and the feeling of "will i make it to the fhinish line" is better than random dice rolling. It is also a lot more strategic than Tom let's on in how you plan out your movement and slipstreaming between your two cyclist. This is the third upload of this vidoe so previous comments about the strategy in the game either got deleted due to reuploads or by the dice tower themselves since the two previous uploads had a rule misstake in the runtrough of the game. If your looking for a quick and easy racing game for the whole family that provides a lot of tensions and some strategic choices do not let Tom drive you away from FLamme Rouge
Thanks for this. May give it a try. Any house rules to slightly mix this up a bit. Also by saying team play that’s just using your other cyclist to stay close and nothing else rather than having additional slipstream moves.
@@johnroberts8831 There are now two expansions to the game, one that adds cobblestone roads and additional players and another that adds weather conditions. I suggest both. They both mix it up quite a bit.
Jockeying for position? Thats exactly what a bike race is. It’s knowing when to strike and hoping that you have enough in the bag to make it first to the line. This game couldn’t sum that feeling up any better. It’s perfect.
I think if you are a cyclist or enjoy watching bike racing, this game is great. I was so impressed on how much this game mimics actual bike racing. A lot of a bike race is actually just trying to get in a position to win with doing the minimal amount of effort. Same goes for this game, using slipstream to move extra spaces and not being in the front too much so you don't get exhausted is key. The up and down hills add a lot to the game. Also, the expansion packs add a lot of extra layers and are a great addition. My family have a blast playing this game and do find excitement in the game! I LOVE this game. But then again I love bike racing.
I just took delivery. They've fixed the figure recognition by painting S or R on the rider's backs. It has the two key features of a cycle race - slipstreaming (drafting) and energy conservation - and implements them in a way that doesn't grind the game to a halt. I like the rapid play, too many "racing" games suffer form a turn end that descends into 5 minutes of accountancy.
Brian Shean I have to say I completely agree with you. Just played a 4 player game where I was the only regular cyclist. I took 1st and 2nd and I must say my knowledge of cycling did make the difference. My girlfriend did an early breakaway which was reeled in and in the end (classicissima) after the third downhill bit I cut my sprinter lose and he went like the clap (all my 9s saved). No exhaustion (my roleur had 5) and one easily. This game is awesome for people who like road biking.
I really enjoyed this game. The fact that you want to try and be second place until the final stretch, and then burn all your high cards at the end to catch up is fun. You have to play chicken sometimes, because being first after each turn gets you more exhaustion cards, but if you get just behind the person in first, you might get a free move to shift up and you don't have to take an exhaustion card. So that planning based on what you think others will play is pretty fun. I played a 3 player game and really enjoyed it.
Tried an early brakeaway on turn 2 yesterday. The stage had three mountains. I came in on position two only 1 space behind the winner. Last two carddraws were the key. The big amount of exhaustion kills my prelast turn. That was a ton of excitment. Never had this in my meeting with Formula De. It was a threeplayer game and I can see that three is possibly the best number.
Tom is one of my fav's but he really missed here. If you follow or enjoy cycling, this is a surprisingly great representation, where the luck of your card draw and the way you play them follows the strategy and unexpected bursts or loss of energy in a cycling race. If you don't follow cycling, the game is simple yet intensely fun (and might have you cursing your opponents). I get that Tom loves dice mechanics, but to say this game is not exciting and "a crapshoot" while praising a game based pretty much on the luck of dice rolls...check out SU&SD's review. I think they captured Flame Rouge.
The problem for me with this game is that whilst there is some strategy in the cards you play, they are only strategic in the sense of preserving your exhaustion levels. There is no chance to react to what the other competing cyclists are doing and think this could be fixed by having a first player marker going around the board. That way, I could have a hand of 2,4,4,5 be thinking about playing a 5 but then the the first player for that round could play a card that puts him three ahead of me and I would then play the two to move into his slipstream, saving my 4's and 5's. The other problem is that I think they have missed a trick by not allowing the inside track on corners to be faster, i.e. fewer squares on the the inside track, so that whoever gets to the corner second would have to use the outside track, adding something else to consider (do I go around the outside of the person in front of me or tuck in behind). I have considered just defacing the corner squares to divide them into a couple of smaller squares to enable this mechanism. I like the look of the Meteo and Peleton expansions although not played either yet.
this game is great it really feels like bicycle race if a groups breaks away the other player have to work toghther to get them back and you can make deals but you do not have to keep them
This seems to me to deal with the issue of endurance in tour cycling where Um Reifenbreite doesn't address the stress of being in the lead of a race. Um Reifenbreite better deals with the issue of optimization of position and cornering. I think Tom is hitting on what sometimes makes professional cycling boring to watch at times, the plodding jockeying of position with the occasional break away. As a simulation I'd say they're about even, as U.R. has an entire team of cyclists, cornering, and endurance effects in the sense that cards are spent. F.R. has better endurance effects in terms of deck building and drafting along with different rider decks. I hope we get more games with this theme as I don't think either is a home run. Still I've God Um Reifenbreite on my Birthday list. Thank's for the review Tom!
I recently picked up Leader 1 bike racing game and really enjoy it. I was wondering if you Tom have played it, if so how does it compare? Anyone else who would like to respond it would also be a appreciated.
The racing part is indeed misleading. Racing implies to most 'going as fast as you can' but in actuality this represents the energy conservation required to win a human-limit-bound physical race (not just bicycles). get first too soon, you're penalized for wind. the way to 'lay low and remain in the game' is slipstreaming, and then the decision when to break out. However, the luck is a big downside here. to reach 'exactly one space apart for slipstreaming' requires luck of the draw, not only yours but your opponents' draw and decision as well.
As a cyclist, I’m very confused by this review. He keeps saying it’s more of jockeying for position than a bike racing game, but bike racing is literally jockeying for position. Did he do any research into the subject matter before making this review?
The game is good but not great because starting out in the front row is such a huge advantage. We play with 4 people, and the winner always started in the first row, or the right lane of row 2. Starting rows 3 and 4 NEVER win. They have to burn good cards just to cross the start line. Thinking of adding a handicap of exhaustion cards to the players in the front to try to even it out. Most other games take going first into account to even things out such as in Architects of W. K, etc. Any other ideas on how to make this game more fair? Not much fun to know who is going to win before we even start.
Played 1st game with the basic map last night. Dull. Very dull. Out of the 4 players playing, no-one was impressed. I pretty much agree with everything in this review.
I think you've got bike races mixed up with motor sports. The slipstream is a crucial part of the race and thus it's more about positioning and timing and less about running the fastest and taking curves. Flamme Rouge simulates this brilliantly and it finally feels like an actual bike race. Just wanted to point that part out, so you don't compare it to racing car games. I think that's why you were put off by what this game delivers.
I agree with you. May be tom is not into cyclism, may be he didn't get it.
This is for me one of the best racing games I've played this year. Important to note that it's a family style game. I've had zero problem with the shuffling in the game or the lack of exitment.
Sure you don't roll dice but the feeling of building tension as you know that the cards you play go out of the game and get replaced with exhaustion cards, and the feeling of "will i make it to the fhinish line" is better than random dice rolling.
It is also a lot more strategic than Tom let's on in how you plan out your movement and slipstreaming between your two cyclist. This is the third upload of this vidoe so previous comments about the strategy in the game either got deleted due to reuploads or by the dice tower themselves since the two previous uploads had a rule misstake in the runtrough of the game.
If your looking for a quick and easy racing game for the whole family that provides a lot of tensions and some strategic choices do not let Tom drive you away from FLamme Rouge
Jens Thernström He didn't drive me away, I rode away on my bike ;)
Thanks for this. May give it a try. Any house rules to slightly mix this up a bit. Also by saying team play that’s just using your other cyclist to stay close and nothing else rather than having additional slipstream moves.
@@johnroberts8831 There are now two expansions to the game, one that adds cobblestone roads and additional players and another that adds weather conditions. I suggest both. They both mix it up quite a bit.
Jockeying for position? Thats exactly what a bike race is. It’s knowing when to strike and hoping that you have enough in the bag to make it first to the line. This game couldn’t sum that feeling up any better. It’s perfect.
I think if you are a cyclist or enjoy watching bike racing, this game is great. I was so impressed on how much this game mimics actual bike racing. A lot of a bike race is actually just trying to get in a position to win with doing the minimal amount of effort. Same goes for this game, using slipstream to move extra spaces and not being in the front too much so you don't get exhausted is key. The up and down hills add a lot to the game. Also, the expansion packs add a lot of extra layers and are a great addition. My family have a blast playing this game and do find excitement in the game! I LOVE this game. But then again I love bike racing.
I love this video , THANKS FOR THE PUBLICITY ! 😉
Flamme Rouge is a lot more than what he said.
This is one of the best racing games out there. It captures all mechanics perfectly.
I just took delivery. They've fixed the figure recognition by painting S or R on the rider's backs.
It has the two key features of a cycle race - slipstreaming (drafting) and energy conservation - and implements them in a way that doesn't grind the game to a halt.
I like the rapid play, too many "racing" games suffer form a turn end that descends into 5 minutes of accountancy.
A knowledge of road cycle racing helps, it's all about when to attack and push the peloton when they are vulnerable
Brian Shean I have to say I completely agree with you. Just played a 4 player game where I was the only regular cyclist. I took 1st and 2nd and I must say my knowledge of cycling did make the difference. My girlfriend did an early breakaway which was reeled in and in the end (classicissima) after the third downhill bit I cut my sprinter lose and he went like the clap (all my 9s saved). No exhaustion (my roleur had 5) and one easily. This game is awesome for people who like road biking.
I really enjoyed this game. The fact that you want to try and be second place until the final stretch, and then burn all your high cards at the end to catch up is fun. You have to play chicken sometimes, because being first after each turn gets you more exhaustion cards, but if you get just behind the person in first, you might get a free move to shift up and you don't have to take an exhaustion card. So that planning based on what you think others will play is pretty fun. I played a 3 player game and really enjoyed it.
Tried an early brakeaway on turn 2 yesterday. The stage had three mountains. I came in on position two only 1 space behind the winner. Last two carddraws were the key. The big amount of exhaustion kills my prelast turn.
That was a ton of excitment. Never had this in my meeting with Formula De.
It was a threeplayer game and I can see that three is possibly the best number.
Tom is one of my fav's but he really missed here. If you follow or enjoy cycling, this is a surprisingly great representation, where the luck of your card draw and the way you play them follows the strategy and unexpected bursts or loss of energy in a cycling race. If you don't follow cycling, the game is simple yet intensely fun (and might have you cursing your opponents). I get that Tom loves dice mechanics, but to say this game is not exciting and "a crapshoot" while praising a game based pretty much on the luck of dice rolls...check out SU&SD's review. I think they captured Flame Rouge.
The problem for me with this game is that whilst there is some strategy in the cards you play, they are only strategic in the sense of preserving your exhaustion levels. There is no chance to react to what the other competing cyclists are doing and think this could be fixed by having a first player marker going around the board. That way, I could have a hand of 2,4,4,5 be thinking about playing a 5 but then the the first player for that round could play a card that puts him three ahead of me and I would then play the two to move into his slipstream, saving my 4's and 5's.
The other problem is that I think they have missed a trick by not allowing the inside track on corners to be faster, i.e. fewer squares on the the inside track, so that whoever gets to the corner second would have to use the outside track, adding something else to consider (do I go around the outside of the person in front of me or tuck in behind). I have considered just defacing the corner squares to divide them into a couple of smaller squares to enable this mechanism.
I like the look of the Meteo and Peleton expansions although not played either yet.
"I never felt like this game felt like a race, it felt like jockeying for position" What the heck do you think a race is?
this game is great it really feels like bicycle race if a groups breaks away the other player have to work toghther to get them back and you can make deals but you do not have to keep them
Our family played this and loved it.
This seems to me to deal with the issue of endurance in tour cycling where Um Reifenbreite doesn't address the stress of being in the lead of a race. Um Reifenbreite better deals with the issue of optimization of position and cornering. I think Tom is hitting on what sometimes makes professional cycling boring to watch at times, the plodding jockeying of position with the occasional break away. As a simulation I'd say they're about even, as U.R. has an entire team of cyclists, cornering, and endurance effects in the sense that cards are spent. F.R. has better endurance effects in terms of deck building and drafting along with different rider decks.
I hope we get more games with this theme as I don't think either is a home run. Still I've God Um Reifenbreite on my Birthday list. Thank's for the review Tom!
What game blows it away? I couldn't understand him.
This is one of my favourite games😎
I recently picked up Leader 1 bike racing game and really enjoy it. I was wondering if you Tom have played it, if so how does it compare? Anyone else who would like to respond it would also be a appreciated.
What game blows it away?
Um Reifenbreite, I believe.
easy for you to say!
Formula 90, still, the best racing board game ever designed. I like Flamme Rouge a lot though, simple, family racing game. Recommended!
The racing part is indeed misleading. Racing implies to most 'going as fast as you can' but in actuality this represents the energy conservation required to win a human-limit-bound physical race (not just bicycles). get first too soon, you're penalized for wind. the way to 'lay low and remain in the game' is slipstreaming, and then the decision when to break out.
However, the luck is a big downside here. to reach 'exactly one space apart for slipstreaming' requires luck of the draw, not only yours but your opponents' draw and decision as well.
didn't this video come out yesterday?
The previous videos had a rules error for movement. This one corrects that error and explains i t in better detail.
You think they mixed up the stances for Rouleur and Sprinteur?! Have you ever even seen cyclists sprinting before Tom 🤣
I don't think tom is much of a cyclist. He's more of a werewolf.
You reveal the cards one at the tine according to the rules. That way you will have some strategy as what to play for one of the players.
Hmm... my copy of the rules say all players reveal their cards at the same time.
As a cyclist, I’m very confused by this review. He keeps saying it’s more of jockeying for position than a bike racing game, but bike racing is literally jockeying for position. Did he do any research into the subject matter before making this review?
The game is good but not great because starting out in the front row is such a huge advantage. We play with 4 people, and the winner always started in the first row, or the right lane of row 2. Starting rows 3 and 4 NEVER win. They have to burn good cards just to cross the start line. Thinking of adding a handicap of exhaustion cards to the players in the front to try to even it out. Most other games take going first into account to even things out such as in Architects of W. K, etc. Any other ideas on how to make this game more fair? Not much fun to know who is going to win before we even start.
A SIMPLE solution would be to tip the heads of all the sprinters with black/white acrylic paint.
Thanks for your comments! I just got Um Reifenbreite for Christmas and I love it. Looks like more fun than this one.
another video..but the game still looks dull
Played 1st game with the basic map last night. Dull. Very dull. Out of the 4 players playing, no-one was impressed. I pretty much agree with everything in this review.