Ran into several people who just hate anything except for pedersoli and other high priced repros. They call the others “pipe bombs”. I hate that attitude and ignorance.
I purchased about two years ago a military heritage 1795 Springfield because of your review of military heritage guns. Mine like your Charliville had really good fit and finnish. I re-did the stock and antiqued the barrel and hardware and now at first glance it looks like and original. I am very pleased with my purchase.
As of right now, Dixie Gun Works is selling their Pedersoli Brown Bess muskets for $1195 in kit form, $1550 built. MidwayUSA is selling the Pedersoli Brown Bess is $1699. Look around for sure, even Veteran Arms is only selling their Brown Bess guns for $749.
You came fairly close with the pronunciation actually 😄 Very cool comparison! Here in Denmark, the only gig in town when it comes to contemporary made muzzle loading long guns are Pedersoli (and sometimes Chiappa). We used to be able to get some of the other Spanish and Italian makers here, but it seems that most of them are either out of business or have switched their focus entirely to the US market. I have a Euroarms "Hawken" in .45 that I am currently working on; the stock needs repairs (it is cracked at the tang, as many of them are) and a refinishing.
Well it's good to hear that I got somewhat close with pronunciation lol. Yeah, I don't know about the laws in Denmark when it comes to firearms, but you may check it out if you want to own a military heritage might be a little easier ordering online considering how they're not technically firearms when they're shipped, seeing how they do not have a touch hole yet until you drill one
@@Real11BangBang Non-firing replica guns does not require a permit here. But whether an, othervice functual gun, just missing a touch hole, is considered a non-firing replica here, is an open question. My bet is that it would not - and risking it could easily cost me all my other permits. Either way, even if it was to be considered a non-firing replica here, the act of drilling the touch hole would most certainly constitute producing a firearm, which requires a permit normally only obtainable by commercial businesses. If something like the Military Heritage guns should be viable here in Denmark, a commercial business, with the correct permits, should import them and drill the touch holes - but that would probably make them as expensive as Pedersolis here.
Could you make a video regarding drilling the vent hole? That or share a link with me regarding the process, as I just ordered a Military Heritage Charleville after watching this video. Thanks.
I would say this if you're wanting one that is more historically accurate. When it comes to Northwest trade guns you may want to go with the pederosli just for the simple fact that one model of the indian made gun that does have quite a bit thicker stock now you could probably rasp the military heritage stock to the right shape, but it wouldn't be as strong without the good walnut of the pedersoli. But if you're okay with a slightly thicker stock like we were and you're not willing to go and pay two to three times, the amount that a Indian made musket would cost you then by all means full steam ahead. Get the military heritage gun. Ours is a good shooter and The markings and everything else (aside from stock thicknes) on that gun is superb.
I have a doglock carbine I just got from Veteran Arms, Indian made of course. One of the things I like is that Pedersoli doesn't put out the variety of the guns like the Indian makers too, Pedersoli doesn't offer a doglock. I videoed my son shooting that doglock, and he was on the 3rd and 4th shot with it and I was surprised at how fast the lock time is on that gun. It's as fast as any of my Pedersoli guns. I think my Pedersoli Indian Trade gun is my nicest flintlock and it has an extremely fast lock time, but that Indian made doglock is right behind it.
Yes that is precisely it and it's not just military heritage either. You mentioned veteran arms which I really do need to get with someday because I want that Spanish pattern 57 musket and they have a whole other selection of guns that even military heritage does not have. However, military heritage also has a bunch of guns that that veteran arms doesn't have
You can chamfer a radius around your flash hole (if you just drilled a straight hole into your breech) by using a # 1 center drill mounted on a lathe. This will increase the reliability of your musket if you did not install a flash hole liner.
This was a good video, one I do appreciate. I purchased a Lorenz from Military Heritage and stripped the finish, used walnut stain. I did not let it sit too long, wiped off the excess use 2000 and 3000 grit sand paper with true oil and the finish is very close to my 1859 Sharps. I drilled a large hole in the bolster. Tapped it for a screw, and a 1/16 hole in the breech.Yeah, she's a smooth bore and .62 cal., but she's a good shooter. Now, I'm thinking of a 1766 Charleville. Pedersoli can't be found, so Military Heritage looks like where I'm heading. I think she will be fine.
In short: Pedersoli's are out of the box shooters. India guns are for the tinkerer shooters, and the trendy/follower shooters hang in the balance. BTW- I find it interesting what/why people fall in love with certain things. I have the Charleville too but prefer the triggers in the English guns. Thanks again for sharing fair info on such the controversial subject. It's always fun to ruffle the feathers of those whom are stubbornly opinionated yet intellectually ignorant about the actual differences. 😀
I really appreciated the contrast and comparison between these two manufacturers/importers. Do you have any thoughts as to why Military Heritage seems to be having long delays of shipments coming in from India these days? Their 1733 French Cavalry Pistols have been "Ready To Ship" for at least a year or more... and still haven't arrived... but they are light years ahead of their Officer & Gentleman Fusil model that, apparently, have been "Out Of Stock" since the last Ice Age.
Last time I talked to them, a year ago, they had 2 factors in play 1) was the ongoing Covid restrictions in India, 2) is the 250 th anniversary of the American Revolution upcoming and the demand for guns by SAR Color Guards and reenacting organizations... many shipments are sold out before they even reach the warehouse, some of the less popular models are in limited production in India and are made in small batches, the last time i saw the fusil in stock it sold out before I could order one...
@@CaptRons18thcentury Thank you, Cap'n Ron for your quick response. Sounds like I shall have to remind myself, from time to time, that, "Patience Is A Virtue"! I've already paid for the pistol... and may go ahead and do the same for the Fusil, when finances allow... just to be on the list.
@@martinmeltzer2696 call or email them and they will put you on the list, when it comes in stock they will call you back to confirm, or he did with me, yo make sure i still wanted the gun I was on the waiting list for, I don't remember which gun it was now because I had several ordered... was ordering and prepping some guns for my SAR chapters Color Guard...
I struggled for a long time trying to decide on a Military Heritage or Pedersoli Charleville. I eventually went with a Pedersoli kit which I purchased from Dixie Gun Works for $1295 plus shipping. It took a LOT of work removing wood, and filing/fitting, and polishing the metal...approximately 45 hours to get it right. The only reason I didn't get the MH musket was that it wasn't available at the time, and it wouldn't be available for months. I'm happy with my choice, but the cost is ridiculously high for Pedersoli.
How do the locks compare with regards to tuning? Is the action smooth or are they really tight? If you are having problems with misfires you may need to get a new frizzen or get it worked on. Prices just seem to go up and up. I used to have a Pedersoli Short Land that I paid $200 for in 1974. Keep up the good work.
I know you made this video 11 months ago and ive been looking at Military Heritage because of price. Ive gotten out of Civil War reenacting but have fallen into a crowd who do reenacting ftom F&I time period to Rendezvous of 1839 and want a flinter from about 1795 to 1815. War of 1812 appeals to me because some of my Civil War clothes can be back dated easily without me spending thousands again. Im also 71 years old.
This was a fascinating comparison, even though it came out pretty close to what I expected. I do think Pedersoli firearms are worth the expense *most* of the time, but let's be honest, a flintlock is a pretty simple firearm; when I was deciding which Sharps Infantry Rifle to buy, all the evidence led me to realize I would have been an idiot to buy anything other than a Pedersoli because of how bad the other entries in the market were (I know MH doesn't sell that rifle, I was just using the example I knew most about). One thing I think deserves more discussion is the difficulty of drilling out the touch hole. You gentlemen have a lot of tools, a great deal of expertise, and a tremendous amount of experience working on firearms, and yet I seem to recall you having problems with one of the Indian guns because you didn't do the touchhole correctly (the first time--I seem to recall that you fixed it, too). For those lacking the tools, expertise, and experience to make the Military Heritage weapons shootable, this may not be a trivial problem. The same is true for function problems of the sort many Military Heritage weapons exhibit--again, to you guys, diagnosing and fixing those kinds of problems are so minor that they don't even need to be mentioned, but to others, those kinds of problems can be an endless source of frustration, cost, and difficulty. If all the stories about exploding Indian muskets are false (and I have seen several, but can't vouch for any), then that is a despicable tactic on the part of the competition, but at least we can take comfort that it was common in period, too.
Yep, those are all very good points and now that you mention it, I think that's another reason why I kind of like these military heritage guns As much as I do is most of them didn't just come ready to go out of the box. They took a little fine tuning and there's a lot of time spent working with the gun to get it firing just right. Kind of built a bond between me and my firelocks.
@@Real11BangBang Have you ever looked into Veteran Arms? They also sell the Indian produced guns. They have a smaller selection but actually go through, drill the flash hole, and give the gun a sort of inspection before shipping it to you. you pay a bit more but id be curious if it was worth it.
Actually, the interaction with the Flintlock lock, and the frizzen is fairly complicated, unlike percussion. To get those things to work correctly can actually be pretty complicated, they are not as simple as you might think.
My 1816 Pederosoli was very reliable ignition I sold it for a reason I can't recall now. I been thinking of giving the Idian made Tulle 62cal or a French musket in 69cal since I'm set up for 69cal already.
I own items from both companies, for live shooting I greatly prefer Pedersoli, if you are just doing historical reenactment, get the Military Heritage. Not that you can’t live shoot the military heritage ones, Pedersoli is just more consistent because it’s machined instead of hand made
Exactly and it's not like I'm hating on the pedersoli at all. Matter of fact, I just got done making another video with it and it is a phenomenal shooter.
Pedersoli parts interchangeability is a little easier but I think they are bit too expensive for what you get but I have no idea what their overhead is or profit margins etc.
Another excellent video! I purchased the Military Heritage 1733 model pistol awhile back and am very pleased with it. So I'm trying to decide on the fusil de chasse or the 1766Charleville. I was excited when U got the Pedersoli BB, since I wanted to see a comparison. I bought my Pedersoli BB back in 1994. She's been my sweetheart ever since. I learned a lot with her. I learned the Italian , ArmiSport,Euroarms, Pedersoli all used 3 piece rammers friction fit to streamline production. I had the threaded end come off downbore back around 2004 with a brush down there. Took some doing to extract that. I found a guy about 2014 that mad replicas of originals in one solid piece. I'm a big fan of these Pedersoli, but my wallet isn't that thick . I think I paid $800.00 in 1994. I'm impressed with Military Heritage and Robert, so he'll be getting my business from now on. Very best regards
My personal opinion between the fusil de chasse and the 1766 Charleville I would go with the Charleville all day. It is closer to the original that it is based off of and the one that I have now have I've about worn out but it was a good shooter. Now I just have to either replace the hammer or try to recase harden it
@@Real11BangBangyou should be able to recase/harden it with a blowtorch and some olive oil. Simply heat it until glowing red, squelch in olive oil, then bake at 350 for 10 minutes.
I was born to be a patriot I will defend the Constitution foreign and domestic I believe in the American Constitution and I believe in the United States of America as a patriot
@@Real11BangBang you can call me the third Patriot that supporter that you have on your show I'm a civil war reenactor and a world war II reenacter and a mountain man reenactor and that's how much I feel to be an American and as in a Patriot for the American people by the American people because I am the people that I represent as Patriots
Great video, I appreciate it, I’d go with the military heritage myself, easy to drill a touch hole, for those who don’t trust doing that any local machine shop could knock it out fairly cheap. I’ve always hated those Italian guns with their big signs on their barrels, pretty much takes away the eye appeal to me.
Nice comparison! I've always been fond of the Long Lands and the Charlevilles, so that limits my options. Price, shipping & availability can be a whole other kettle of fish, though. Alas, the world is not perfect.
Where are Military Heritage Guns Made? With Todays technology why do manufacturer’s find it so hard to duplicate originals? Not having original proof marks is actually a good thing as who would want to be thought of as someone trying to counterfeit. To the average spectator from a distance the finish and minute details make little difference. As a potential buyer If I am going to spend any amount of Money on something advertised and sold as a “ reproduction” I want it to be a reproduction . Anything less than that should be regarded as a facsimile . We also must Keep in Mind that even in their time none of the regulation arms while similar were not fully interchangeable so it makes sense that workmanship will differ and with that in mind be more period correct . What makes a difference to Me is the functioning of the lock. My original 1862 Springfield has a far better feel when cocking than My CVA Mountain Rifle. While the CVA works it has a cheaper less reliable feel. I browned the barrels of My Kit Guns and they came out looking pretty good considering I was in a hurry to get them together and shooting. Then after putting them away I realize I could have greased and plugged the bores and let them sit out with the picks and digging bars. On hot days I could have rubbed my sweaty hands on the Barrel and eventually they would look like My well used digging Bars with a very deep well aged Brown. So thick with hand oil that even when left out in the elements for long periods they never seem to rust and when they do show signs a little use brings the deep luster right back.
Exactly this is the point, Pedersoli guns are built too precise and are too reliable, they are not historically accurate, Military Heritage guns are hand made and more historically accurate because they are not perfect just like the originals
So I just ordered parts from the rifle shop and they just came in yesterday. They are castings so therefore they will have to be hardened and tempered. However, I have found that they are actually a very close fit. They have to be filed. Have the casting gates cut off and polished but I think they will work beautifully in the Indian made muskets
Just got in a dog lock musket from Loyalist arms. Also a Bombay pipe bomb 9.6 lbs not heavy compared to original All heart wood Ramrod is crap but I will replace that I’m going to do a paint on stock, so it’s was revised unfinished I have to remove a bit of wood on the forearm as rails are too thick Fit isn’t 1st class but every bit as good as I do on guns I’ve built myself There are some scratches on the barrel, no problem to buff out Lock sparks as well as my Davis and L and R locks Trigger pull is clean and crisp Bore is smooth as glass I e done this for forty five years and all and all it’s easily equal to guns costing three times the price If I oiled it I doubt if anyone could tell it from walnut, infact it has good figure 100% satisfied with the gun And I am an old would be stitch counter
I have an older pedersoli sxs percussion 12 gauge sxs...one complaint i have is they are choked...as i have other percussion shotguns...regular 12 g wads ( fiber) fit in them...however the pedersoli nope...need 13g wads...for the $ you pay..., really a let down to need special wads. To go shooting.. I did own a fusil chasse from loyalist arms...and i will say. Nothing but issues....bore was suppose to be 62 cal ( 20g ) and once ball entered muzzle with a patch... First 7 or 8 " were tight steady resistance...then. Literally fall to the bottom.... Same with fiber wads and shot loads...wad would fall beyond the tight spot... The wood split in 7 places..they would not replace the stock Claiming was sold as a " non firing" state and no warranty once touch hole drilled.... That gun in sold to a re enactor gent... Now in light of smoothbores..i just aquired a david dolliver built norwest trade gun with a davis lock...and 36" colerain barrel...bore is very concentric and fit finish is ex...maple instead of overseas type wood... Hoping to get the gun out sometime soon
I purchased a pedersoli brown bess about two years ago. The fit and finish was pathetic. Brass Inlays weren't sanded flush/ not even close... Splintered wood, brass Inlays off center... And though probably taboo to alot of you I cut down the barrel and it is very very obviously not bored on center. Overall I enjoy that I have a flintlock smoothbore but my god I would not send another dollar pedersoli's way. I don't remember what I payed but I know I could have bought two Glocks instead.
The real problem many have with the Pedersoli Brown Bess is the neck of the neck of the stock is too long, and no amount of de-farbing can fix that. BTW, why don't you take the Charleville lock apart and re-case harden the hammer (steel)? You can apply case hardening compound to the face and heat it in a kiln and bring that musket back to life.
What I'm going to end up doing is I've already ordered true spark from track of the wolf to try to case harden the hammer that's already on Ol'Char. And I also ordered some new springs and a new hammer from the rifle shop for the 1766 Charleville. Will it fit? Probably not but it wasn't too expensive and I think that it will be worth my time to figure out if I can fit the rifle shop parts to my military heritage Charleville
@@Real11BangBang Hopefully they will fit with little or no machining. Do you really need new springs as well as a hammer? BTW I live only a couple miles from Track of the Wolf. I have a Brown Bess but want a Charleville. Also thinking of building Kibler's Colonial Rifle.
I suspect the markings on the Pedersoli are in part driven by both Italian firearms laws and US importation rules. The Pedersoli firearms are sold as firearms where as the Indian Non Firearms are sold as non firearms. I have a Pedersoli Harpers Ferry M1841 .54 Caliber. I also have an original Harpers Ferry M1841 (1852 Production) .54 Caliber. There are numerous differences between the two. My original has long range sights and a bayonet lug for openers. The blade sight on the front is probably twice the height on the Pedersoli as on of Harpers Ferry. A few months ago I picked up a Navy Arm marketed Antonio Zoli replica of a Harpers Ferry M1841, .58 Caliber. It does not say Harpers Ferry anywhere on it. The front sight looks too tall, just like the Pedersoli, but I have not put any rounds down range yet to confirm this. I need to build a good shooting bench for sighting in rifles.
Yeah I figured that that was why they did it. However, I wish they would do kind of like cimarron does and work a little harder at hiding those markings and go ahead and put the old stylings on there. But I think you're right, They probably are not allowed to put the old proof markings on.
I have also heard people make comments about Indian guns blowing up. I believe it has been documented that those instances where muskets blow up is from newbies not realizing their load did not go off, and they load another round. Pedersolis will blow up too if you load them with 5-6 rounds. I know a War of 1812 group that bought a bunch of Indian muskets with a government grant, and they have had no complaints - and they liked the fact they bought more guns than if they bought Pedersoli.
Flintlocks are very tempermental. My understanding is that Pedersoli will spark more reliably, while with the Indian guns you have to case harden the fizzen. So if money is not a problem, then Pedersoli is very desirable. But it is way more expensive than the Indian guns. You did not mention about the pan. Someone showed me that in the Indian guns the pan is parallel to the ground. The Pedersoli is tilted - so the pan is actually level given how you hold the gun while loading. So with flintlocks the extra price might be worth it because not firing is so frustrating. But for percussion cap guns, like in the Civil War, the percussion cap technology is so reliable that I don't think the extra expense is worth it.
Could you please do a review on the veteran arms English trade gun? I got so long ago then went on some deployments. I forgot if mine 60 or 62 could you please do a video on that how “ Mike “your your musket barrel
I do not have a better moms English trade gun. Unfortunately, the closest thing I have is the military heritage version which I believe is made by the same people in India. It's a pretty solid gun
This is Ethan so as far as dropping them onto concrete, I don't think that either gun would fare too well in that and it is not really due to the wood quality but just to the design of flint lock musket in general. They are very thin around the lock plate in the barrel and you would most likely crack both of these guns right there under the lock plate. But I will agree with you. The wood on the pedersoli is far superior
Ethan a couple of points: I would be a patron but… I used to support 4 creators 3 were in gun tub (Ian, Othias, Bloke) and one was a channel I appreciated for his political stance and intellect: Carl Benjamin AKA Sargon of Akkad. Carl got Cancelled -and they kept his money they owed him. I IMMEDIATELY stopped all my Patreons. I REFUSE to give a percentage to that org. I then supported Others via Subscribestar, Ian via Floatplane. Bloke lost out... Now I support folks via a new service called Utreon which I also have a channel on (plug plug). If you start up there, I will kick in. Second point: My Bess is a Military Arms. Just took her down to check markings… I do not have a socket bayonet instead I have a Plug Bayonet. Mine has similar lock plate and barrel markings as yours but my stock is frankly… less then ideal.. It looks more like a cross between pine and balsa wood held together with some ick varnish and tacks (I would hardly call these pins). They are staggered the length of the stock on both sides- with some poking through. I have not as many rounds thru her as you have but she does shoot true. Since I got the correct flints for her she is very happy. I love the Woods' content. You guys do good.
Thank you for the encouragement about the whole Patreon thing. I'm not quite sure how to do it all just yet but I am figuring it out and like I said I've never ever messed with it before this and so I had no clue about stuff that you are talking about happening sounds pretty rough. I may have to try to set an Ultron account as well
Pedersoli is superior. they are fully operational while the Military Heritage weapons are incomplete. No touch holes drilled. you have tohave a gunsmith work on them. that makes them suspect in my book.
With a bit of refining the Heritage fire arms can be brought up to as fine a quality as the more expensive mods .. just get your skill levels up and you'll be satisfied
I've had several Access Heritage that don't spark well out of the box... a little Cherry Red with a propane torch will fix that up... check Rob's video on British Muzzleloader's on the subject... Pedersoli sling swivels are the wrong shape... And my 1728 Charleville from MH/AH has been a reliable shooter out of the box... Also if you want something other than a Shortland Pattern, its either Indian guns or custom builds... I have a collection of several " Brown Bess " muskets to show the variations in the evolution of the gun, 2 Pedersoli's one in original configuration, and one defarbed 7 Indian guns in various other configurations...and an old Miroku / Dixie gun works Short Land Pattern...
@@Real11BangBang Thanks, I've got more of that type video planned, I've been busy travelling to events lately, and when I'm home the weather hasn't been accommodating range time for shooting portions of the video... like yesterdays scout event, we didn't shoot the muskets or rifles at all due to the rain...
@@CaptRons18thcenturyyeah we got rained out today but luckily we had enough time to get our smooth bore loading techniques. Accuracy test video completed. I think I'm going to have to go and go a little bit more into the enemy side of things. As in, I may or may not be ordering a Pattern 1776 kit from the rifle shop. Once I get that one in which I realize could be several years from now and get it completed, I think I want to do a video on the British rifle being the pattern 1776 versus the American rifle and for that I would probably go with the Woodsrunner
Also, I don't know if you saw our community post or not, but we will be having Rob from British muzzleloaders on our live chat on April 1st at 8:30 p.m. Central Time
@@Real11BangBang I don't have a pedersoli myself, but I'd be willing to bet that they have done this to theirs. At the very least, they probably coned the inside of the chamber.
I have had pedersoli and uberti and pietta and accuracy was approcimately the same. Finish and fit was better on pedersoli functionality was similar on all 3.
With regards to the bayonet from MH i have had to make a wood mandrel for 25 Charlotte ville muskets and fit and number each one of the bayonets to fit properly and this was done the same way with the originals and how do I know this i was an armourer for 17 years with the 1st Co governor's foot guard and we have 400 original Charlotte ville muskets
I don't know if it's really the hardness of the hammer or just the polished internals and spring tension inside the lock and the feather spring underneath the hammer
On the subject of reliability, I believe that the hammers on the MH guns are a little too hard. I think this is why mine tends to dull flints and throw fewer sparks than other guns. I'm going to try and temper it back a bit.
I just ordered and received a casting for a new hammer for my Charlottesville from the rifle shop as well as a casting for a mainspring, I tried to see how to fit would look and it looks like it'll actually be pretty easy to get fit into the gun now just to get them hardened and tempered to the right point and install them
wrap fizzen in leather shove into tin can, close off can w/a hammer....cook can in a wood fire for 1 hour and then quench in a bucket of water ....frizzen will be repaired as the old people said
I'm leaning towards the military heritage because I actually like longer pattern, in terms of safety and handling are they good in that regards? Any issue with finish I can see past, and what loads do you use for land pattern Bess?
@11BangBang Well that sounds great! I don't mind a rough fit and finish, I don't know what some folks expect, it's a repro of a pre-industrial mass produced military musket, I'd expect imperfections. Lol
A few thoughts. Great video. I feel like there’s a similar argument to the Uberti vs. Pietta discussion. Two things that I felt like got skated over though we’re the stocks and parts availability. The Pedersoli guns use real walnut while the Indian muskets use Teak wood which is a ding In the authenticity department. Also you can get replacement parts for the pedersoli guns (though admittedly you do have to jump through some hoops). Good luck getting replacement parts for the Indian guns. Good video though. Very fair on what I’m sure is a very decisive topic. There’s nothing more that people who are into this kind of stuff like to do than argue about brand A vs. brand B. Keep it up!
That is absolutely a great point. Yes, I think I mentioned it, but I probably didn't dwell on it long enough. The walnut on the brown bess from pedersoli is far superior and makes it more historically accurate as for replacement parts, I'm about to test a theory which is I'm going to order a few parts from the rifle shop for my Charlottesville and I'm going to just see if I can't fit them to the gun.
Living in a different country we can't have the touch hole drilled indian guns so what you run into is the worst of all being sent here some I would not trust to fire if you paid me. So note that before attacking me. Now the price is really high for something you have know idea if you can convert to shoot. So pedersoli it is and I think that is understandable for us here. I think they customs are also really clamping down on indian guns making it a huge headache of bureaucracy nobody wants. They will add charges to cost for the dumbest things.
So I did a video on the subject with a 62 caliber fusil It took 1200 grains of FFFFG, three round balls and about 2 in of canvas wadding before it finally blew up and then when it did blow up it just blew out the last half inch of the barrel. They're good to go
@@Real11BangBang just to be clear, I'm saying the Italian repros are made of sketchy mystery metal. The Indian stuff should just be assumed to be seamed pipe. A sample of 1 is just that.
I like the indian made guns BUT the Pedersoli firearms are made PROOFED and sold as firearms. The Indian made are not sold as a proofed firearm. Im talking real, modern proofing not historic proof marks
Ran into several people who just hate anything except for pedersoli and other high priced repros. They call the others “pipe bombs”. I hate that attitude and ignorance.
There are snobs with everything. If you don't buy what they like, you've bought a piece of junk.
I purchased about two years ago a military heritage 1795 Springfield because of your review of military heritage guns. Mine like your Charliville had really good fit and finnish. I re-did the stock and antiqued the barrel and hardware and now at first glance it looks like and original. I am very pleased with my purchase.
Please use your patreon money to buy more light blubs. Your filming area is too dark!
its actually set that way as it feels more like historic fire light to us. but i guess if enough people complain we may change it
Oh it works great as long as you're inside looks good to me on my TV
Of course 2 hours ago I was in the woods shooting and could not watch it on my phone
As of right now, Dixie Gun Works is selling their Pedersoli Brown Bess muskets for $1195 in kit form, $1550 built. MidwayUSA is selling the Pedersoli Brown Bess is $1699. Look around for sure, even Veteran Arms is only selling their Brown Bess guns for $749.
You came fairly close with the pronunciation actually 😄
Very cool comparison! Here in Denmark, the only gig in town when it comes to contemporary made muzzle loading long guns are Pedersoli (and sometimes Chiappa). We used to be able to get some of the other Spanish and Italian makers here, but it seems that most of them are either out of business or have switched their focus entirely to the US market. I have a Euroarms "Hawken" in .45 that I am currently working on; the stock needs repairs (it is cracked at the tang, as many of them are) and a refinishing.
Well it's good to hear that I got somewhat close with pronunciation lol. Yeah, I don't know about the laws in Denmark when it comes to firearms, but you may check it out if you want to own a military heritage might be a little easier ordering online considering how they're not technically firearms when they're shipped, seeing how they do not have a touch hole yet until you drill one
@@Real11BangBang Non-firing replica guns does not require a permit here. But whether an, othervice functual gun, just missing a touch hole, is considered a non-firing replica here, is an open question. My bet is that it would not - and risking it could easily cost me all my other permits. Either way, even if it was to be considered a non-firing replica here, the act of drilling the touch hole would most certainly constitute producing a firearm, which requires a permit normally only obtainable by commercial businesses. If something like the Military Heritage guns should be viable here in Denmark, a commercial business, with the correct permits, should import them and drill the touch holes - but that would probably make them as expensive as Pedersolis here.
Access Heritage ships to Europe but I think the UPS shipping charge to Europe is close to $200.00 US (about 185 Euros).
Could you make a video regarding drilling the vent hole? That or share a link with me regarding the process, as I just ordered a Military Heritage Charleville after watching this video. Thanks.
we have one in this video ua-cam.com/video/taQTktYbEAA/v-deo.html
Thanks for the compare & contrast between the two makers. Ive been wondering about their NW Trade guns fit & finish, this helped a lot 👍👍
I would say this if you're wanting one that is more historically accurate. When it comes to Northwest trade guns you may want to go with the pederosli just for the simple fact that one model of the indian made gun that does have quite a bit thicker stock now you could probably rasp the military heritage stock to the right shape, but it wouldn't be as strong without the good walnut of the pedersoli.
But if you're okay with a slightly thicker stock like we were and you're not willing to go and pay two to three times, the amount that a Indian made musket would cost you then by all means full steam ahead. Get the military heritage gun. Ours is a good shooter and The markings and everything else (aside from stock thicknes) on that gun is superb.
I have a doglock carbine I just got from Veteran Arms, Indian made of course. One of the things I like is that Pedersoli doesn't put out the variety of the guns like the Indian makers too, Pedersoli doesn't offer a doglock. I videoed my son shooting that doglock, and he was on the 3rd and 4th shot with it and I was surprised at how fast the lock time is on that gun. It's as fast as any of my Pedersoli guns. I think my Pedersoli Indian Trade gun is my nicest flintlock and it has an extremely fast lock time, but that Indian made doglock is right behind it.
Yes that is precisely it and it's not just military heritage either. You mentioned veteran arms which I really do need to get with someday because I want that Spanish pattern 57 musket and they have a whole other selection of guns that even military heritage does not have. However, military heritage also has a bunch of guns that that veteran arms doesn't have
You can chamfer a radius around your flash hole (if you just drilled a straight hole into your breech) by using a # 1 center drill mounted on a lathe. This will increase the reliability of your musket if you did not install a flash hole liner.
This was a good video, one I do appreciate. I purchased a Lorenz from Military Heritage and stripped the finish, used walnut stain. I did not let it sit too long, wiped off the excess use 2000 and 3000 grit sand paper with true oil and the finish is very close to my 1859 Sharps. I drilled a large hole in the bolster. Tapped it for a screw, and a 1/16 hole in the breech.Yeah, she's a smooth bore and .62 cal., but she's a good shooter. Now, I'm thinking of a 1766 Charleville. Pedersoli can't be found, so Military Heritage looks like where I'm heading. I think she will be fine.
In short: Pedersoli's are out of the box shooters. India guns are for the tinkerer shooters, and the trendy/follower shooters hang in the balance.
BTW- I find it interesting what/why people fall in love with certain things. I have the Charleville too but prefer the triggers in the English guns.
Thanks again for sharing fair info on such the controversial subject. It's always fun to ruffle the feathers of those whom are stubbornly opinionated yet intellectually ignorant about the actual differences. 😀
I really appreciated the contrast and comparison between these two manufacturers/importers. Do you have any thoughts as to why Military Heritage seems to be having long delays of shipments coming in from India these days? Their 1733 French Cavalry Pistols have been "Ready To Ship" for at least a year or more... and still haven't arrived... but they are light years ahead of their Officer & Gentleman Fusil model that, apparently, have been "Out Of Stock" since the last Ice Age.
Last time I talked to them, a year ago, they had 2 factors in play 1) was the ongoing Covid restrictions in India, 2) is the 250 th anniversary of the American Revolution upcoming and the demand for guns by SAR Color Guards and reenacting organizations... many shipments are sold out before they even reach the warehouse, some of the less popular models are in limited production in India and are made in small batches, the last time i saw the fusil in stock it sold out before I could order one...
@@CaptRons18thcentury Thank you, Cap'n Ron for your quick response. Sounds like I shall have to remind myself, from time to time, that, "Patience Is A Virtue"! I've already paid for the pistol... and may go ahead and do the same for the Fusil, when finances allow... just to be on the list.
@@martinmeltzer2696 call or email them and they will put you on the list, when it comes in stock they will call you back to confirm, or he did with me, yo make sure i still wanted the gun I was on the waiting list for, I don't remember which gun it was now because I had several ordered... was ordering and prepping some guns for my SAR chapters Color Guard...
@@CaptRons18thcentury Will do, Cap'n Ron! Thanks for your guidance and experience! It is greatly appreciated.
I struggled for a long time trying to decide on a Military Heritage or Pedersoli Charleville. I eventually went with a Pedersoli kit which I purchased from Dixie Gun Works for $1295 plus shipping. It took a LOT of work removing wood, and filing/fitting, and polishing the metal...approximately 45 hours to get it right. The only reason I didn't get the MH musket was that it wasn't available at the time, and it wouldn't be available for months. I'm happy with my choice, but the cost is ridiculously high for Pedersoli.
Also Dixie adds to the price (of ANYTHING!)
How do the locks compare with regards to tuning? Is the action smooth or are they really tight? If you are having problems with misfires you may need to get a new frizzen or get it worked on. Prices just seem to go up and up. I used to have a Pedersoli Short Land that I paid $200 for in 1974. Keep up the good work.
I know you made this video 11 months ago and ive been looking at Military Heritage because of price. Ive gotten out of Civil War reenacting but have fallen into a crowd who do reenacting ftom F&I time period to Rendezvous of 1839 and want a flinter from about 1795 to 1815. War of 1812 appeals to me because some of my Civil War clothes can be back dated easily without me spending thousands again. Im also 71 years old.
This was a fascinating comparison, even though it came out pretty close to what I expected. I do think Pedersoli firearms are worth the expense *most* of the time, but let's be honest, a flintlock is a pretty simple firearm; when I was deciding which Sharps Infantry Rifle to buy, all the evidence led me to realize I would have been an idiot to buy anything other than a Pedersoli because of how bad the other entries in the market were (I know MH doesn't sell that rifle, I was just using the example I knew most about). One thing I think deserves more discussion is the difficulty of drilling out the touch hole. You gentlemen have a lot of tools, a great deal of expertise, and a tremendous amount of experience working on firearms, and yet I seem to recall you having problems with one of the Indian guns because you didn't do the touchhole correctly (the first time--I seem to recall that you fixed it, too). For those lacking the tools, expertise, and experience to make the Military Heritage weapons shootable, this may not be a trivial problem. The same is true for function problems of the sort many Military Heritage weapons exhibit--again, to you guys, diagnosing and fixing those kinds of problems are so minor that they don't even need to be mentioned, but to others, those kinds of problems can be an endless source of frustration, cost, and difficulty. If all the stories about exploding Indian muskets are false (and I have seen several, but can't vouch for any), then that is a despicable tactic on the part of the competition, but at least we can take comfort that it was common in period, too.
Yep, those are all very good points and now that you mention it, I think that's another reason why I kind of like these military heritage guns As much as I do is most of them didn't just come ready to go out of the box. They took a little fine tuning and there's a lot of time spent working with the gun to get it firing just right. Kind of built a bond between me and my firelocks.
@@Real11BangBang Have you ever looked into Veteran Arms? They also sell the Indian produced guns. They have a smaller selection but actually go through, drill the flash hole, and give the gun a sort of inspection before shipping it to you. you pay a bit more but id be curious if it was worth it.
Actually, the interaction with the Flintlock lock, and the frizzen is fairly complicated, unlike percussion.
To get those things to work correctly can actually be pretty complicated, they are not as simple as you might think.
another plus with the India made guns is all the iron parts , lock etc are all hand forged just like the originals
My 1816 Pederosoli was very reliable ignition I sold it for a reason I can't recall now. I been thinking of giving the Idian made Tulle 62cal or a French musket in 69cal since I'm set up for 69cal already.
I own items from both companies, for live shooting I greatly prefer Pedersoli, if you are just doing historical reenactment, get the Military Heritage. Not that you can’t live shoot the military heritage ones, Pedersoli is just more consistent because it’s machined instead of hand made
Exactly and it's not like I'm hating on the pedersoli at all. Matter of fact, I just got done making another video with it and it is a phenomenal shooter.
Pedersoli parts interchangeability is a little easier but I think they are bit too expensive for what you get but I have no idea what their overhead is or profit margins etc.
Another excellent video! I purchased the Military Heritage 1733 model pistol awhile back and am very pleased with it. So I'm trying to decide on the fusil de chasse or the 1766Charleville.
I was excited when U got the Pedersoli BB, since I wanted to see a comparison. I bought my Pedersoli BB back in 1994. She's been my sweetheart ever since. I learned a lot with her. I learned the Italian , ArmiSport,Euroarms, Pedersoli all used 3 piece rammers friction fit to streamline production. I had the threaded end come off downbore back around 2004 with a brush down there. Took some doing to extract that. I found a guy about 2014 that mad replicas of originals in one solid piece. I'm a big fan of these Pedersoli, but my wallet isn't that thick . I think I paid $800.00 in 1994. I'm impressed with Military Heritage and Robert, so he'll be getting my business from now on. Very best regards
My personal opinion between the fusil de chasse and the 1766 Charleville I would go with the Charleville all day. It is closer to the original that it is based off of and the one that I have now have I've about worn out but it was a good shooter. Now I just have to either replace the hammer or try to recase harden it
@@Real11BangBangyou should be able to recase/harden it with a blowtorch and some olive oil. Simply heat it until glowing red, squelch in olive oil, then bake at 350 for 10 minutes.
I was born to be a patriot I will defend the Constitution foreign and domestic I believe in the American Constitution and I believe in the United States of America as a patriot
This is what every American should strive to be like
@@Real11BangBang you can call me the third Patriot that supporter that you have on your show I'm a civil war reenactor and a world war II reenacter and a mountain man reenactor and that's how much I feel to be an American and as in a Patriot for the American people by the American people because I am the people that I represent as Patriots
I agree with you ,,especially on price,,!
1699.00 for pedersoli right now on midway out of stock by the way.
Great video, I appreciate it, I’d go with the military heritage myself, easy to drill a touch hole, for those who don’t trust doing that any local machine shop could knock it out fairly cheap.
I’ve always hated those Italian guns with their big signs on their barrels, pretty much takes away the eye appeal to me.
Nice comparison! I've always been fond of the Long Lands and the Charlevilles, so that limits my options. Price, shipping & availability can be a whole other kettle of fish, though. Alas, the world is not perfect.
I totally agree!
Well to today nothing crazy just like this comparison video.
Where are Military Heritage Guns Made? With Todays technology why do manufacturer’s find it so hard to duplicate originals? Not having original proof marks is actually a good thing as who would want to be thought of as someone trying to counterfeit. To the average spectator from a distance the finish and minute details make little difference. As a potential buyer If I am going to spend any amount of Money on something advertised and sold as a “ reproduction” I want it to be a reproduction . Anything less than that should be regarded as a facsimile . We also must Keep in Mind that even in their time none of the regulation arms while similar were not fully interchangeable so it makes sense that workmanship will differ and with that in mind be more period correct . What makes a difference to Me is the functioning of the lock. My original 1862 Springfield has a far better feel when cocking than My CVA Mountain Rifle. While the CVA works it has a cheaper less reliable feel. I browned the barrels of My Kit Guns and they came out looking pretty good considering I was in a hurry to get them together and shooting. Then after putting them away I realize I could have greased and plugged the bores and let them sit out with the picks and digging bars. On hot days I could have rubbed my sweaty hands on the Barrel and eventually they would look like My well used digging Bars with a very deep well aged Brown. So thick with hand oil that even when left out in the elements for long periods they never seem to rust and when they do show signs a little use brings the deep luster right back.
The Indian Military Heritage guns are still better quality than the originals.
Exactly this is the point, Pedersoli guns are built too precise and are too reliable, they are not historically accurate, Military Heritage guns are hand made and more historically accurate because they are not perfect just like the originals
A fine as frogs hair comparison on these muskets that I appreciate fer ser! Kind Thanks, Good Shootin and Many Blessings from DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
Thanks, you too!
Military heratige can you get spear parts eg frizzed .. ps great Chanel . From uk
So I just ordered parts from the rifle shop and they just came in yesterday. They are castings so therefore they will have to be hardened and tempered. However, I have found that they are actually a very close fit. They have to be filed. Have the casting gates cut off and polished but I think they will work beautifully in the Indian made muskets
Congratulations on the 9k guys.
Thank you so much 😀
Just got in a dog lock musket from Loyalist arms. Also a Bombay pipe bomb
9.6 lbs not heavy compared to original
All heart wood
Ramrod is crap but I will replace that
I’m going to do a paint on stock, so it’s was revised unfinished
I have to remove a bit of wood on the forearm as rails are too thick
Fit isn’t 1st class but every bit as good as I do on guns I’ve built myself
There are some scratches on the barrel, no problem to buff out
Lock sparks as well as my Davis and L and R locks
Trigger pull is clean and crisp
Bore is smooth as glass
I e done this for forty five years and all and all it’s easily equal to guns costing three times the price
If I oiled it I doubt if anyone could tell it from walnut, infact it has good figure
100% satisfied with the gun
And I am an old would be stitch counter
I have an older pedersoli sxs percussion 12 gauge sxs...one complaint i have is they are choked...as i have other percussion shotguns...regular 12 g wads ( fiber) fit in them...however the pedersoli nope...need 13g wads...for the $ you pay..., really a let down to need special wads. To go shooting.. I did own a fusil chasse from loyalist arms...and i will say.
Nothing but issues....bore was suppose to be 62 cal ( 20g ) and once ball entered muzzle with a patch... First 7 or 8 " were tight steady resistance...then. Literally fall to the bottom.... Same with fiber wads and shot loads...wad would fall beyond the tight spot... The wood split in 7 places..they would not replace the stock
Claiming was sold as a " non firing" state and no warranty once touch hole drilled....
That gun in sold to a re enactor gent... Now in light of smoothbores..i just aquired a david dolliver built norwest trade gun with a davis lock...and 36" colerain barrel...bore is very concentric and fit finish is ex...maple instead of overseas type wood... Hoping to get the gun out sometime soon
I purchased a pedersoli brown bess about two years ago. The fit and finish was pathetic. Brass Inlays weren't sanded flush/ not even close... Splintered wood, brass Inlays off center... And though probably taboo to alot of you I cut down the barrel and it is very very obviously not bored on center. Overall I enjoy that I have a flintlock smoothbore but my god I would not send another dollar pedersoli's way. I don't remember what I payed but I know I could have bought two Glocks instead.
Nice comparison, thanks for taking the time to put it together.
Thanks for watching!
The real problem many have with the Pedersoli Brown Bess is the neck of the neck of the stock is too long, and no amount of de-farbing can fix that. BTW, why don't you take the Charleville lock apart and re-case harden the hammer (steel)? You can apply case hardening compound to the face and heat it in a kiln and bring that musket back to life.
What I'm going to end up doing is I've already ordered true spark from track of the wolf to try to case harden the hammer that's already on Ol'Char.
And I also ordered some new springs and a new hammer from the rifle shop for the 1766 Charleville. Will it fit? Probably not but it wasn't too expensive and I think that it will be worth my time to figure out if I can fit the rifle shop parts to my military heritage Charleville
@@Real11BangBang Hopefully they will fit with little or no machining. Do you really need new springs as well as a hammer? BTW I live only a couple miles from Track of the Wolf. I have a Brown Bess but want a Charleville. Also thinking of building Kibler's Colonial Rifle.
interesting, great video, thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
I've been seeing Pedersoli BB's going for $1600-1800. I bought one new in 2019 for $1100.
Yeah I think I was mentioning the prices that I saw on them back in the early 2000s lol
I suspect the markings on the Pedersoli are in part driven by both Italian firearms laws and US importation rules. The Pedersoli firearms are sold as firearms where as the Indian Non Firearms are sold as non firearms.
I have a Pedersoli Harpers Ferry M1841 .54 Caliber. I also have an original Harpers Ferry M1841 (1852 Production) .54 Caliber. There are numerous differences between the two. My original has long range sights and a bayonet lug for openers. The blade sight on the front is probably twice the height on the Pedersoli as on of Harpers Ferry. A few months ago I picked up a Navy Arm marketed Antonio Zoli replica of a Harpers Ferry M1841, .58 Caliber. It does not say Harpers Ferry anywhere on it. The front sight looks too tall, just like the Pedersoli, but I have not put any rounds down range yet to confirm this.
I need to build a good shooting bench for sighting in rifles.
Yeah I figured that that was why they did it. However, I wish they would do kind of like cimarron does and work a little harder at hiding those markings and go ahead and put the old stylings on there. But I think you're right, They probably are not allowed to put the old proof markings on.
I have also heard people make comments about Indian guns blowing up. I believe it has been documented that those instances where muskets blow up is from newbies not realizing their load did not go off, and they load another round. Pedersolis will blow up too if you load them with 5-6 rounds. I know a War of 1812 group that bought a bunch of Indian muskets with a government grant, and they have had no complaints - and they liked the fact they bought more guns than if they bought Pedersoli.
Flintlocks are very tempermental. My understanding is that Pedersoli will spark more reliably, while with the Indian guns you have to case harden the fizzen. So if money is not a problem, then Pedersoli is very desirable. But it is way more expensive than the Indian guns. You did not mention about the pan. Someone showed me that in the Indian guns the pan is parallel to the ground. The Pedersoli is tilted - so the pan is actually level given how you hold the gun while loading. So with flintlocks the extra price might be worth it because not firing is so frustrating. But for percussion cap guns, like in the Civil War, the percussion cap technology is so reliable that I don't think the extra expense is worth it.
Thanks for your amazing content. You guys are awesome. If you live in VA i can come and help you with production i do videography
thankyou but unfortunately we live in ks
Could you please do a review on the veteran arms English trade gun? I got so long ago then went on some deployments. I forgot if mine 60 or 62 could you please do a video on that how “ Mike “your your musket barrel
I do not have a better moms English trade gun. Unfortunately, the closest thing I have is the military heritage version which I believe is made by the same people in India. It's a pretty solid gun
You want to make a comparison. Drop both on concrete. The pedersoli is far superior.
lol if your dropping them on concrete you probably better just settle for a high point
This is Ethan so as far as dropping them onto concrete, I don't think that either gun would fare too well in that and it is not really due to the wood quality but just to the design of flint lock musket in general. They are very thin around the lock plate in the barrel and you would most likely crack both of these guns right there under the lock plate. But I will agree with you. The wood on the pedersoli is far superior
Ethan a couple of points:
I would be a patron but… I used to support 4 creators 3 were in gun tub (Ian, Othias, Bloke) and one was a channel I appreciated for his political stance and intellect: Carl Benjamin AKA Sargon of Akkad. Carl got Cancelled -and they kept his money they owed him. I IMMEDIATELY stopped all my Patreons. I REFUSE to give a percentage to that org. I then supported Others via Subscribestar, Ian via Floatplane. Bloke lost out... Now I support folks via a new service called Utreon which I also have a channel on (plug plug). If you start up there, I will kick in.
Second point: My Bess is a Military Arms. Just took her down to check markings… I do not have a socket bayonet instead I have a Plug Bayonet. Mine has similar lock plate and barrel markings as yours but my stock is frankly… less then ideal.. It looks more like a cross between pine and balsa wood held together with some ick varnish and tacks (I would hardly call these pins). They are staggered the length of the stock on both sides- with some poking through. I have not as many rounds thru her as you have but she does shoot true.
Since I got the correct flints for her she is very happy.
I love the Woods' content. You guys do good.
Thank you for the encouragement about the whole Patreon thing. I'm not quite sure how to do it all just yet but I am figuring it out and like I said I've never ever messed with it before this and so I had no clue about stuff that you are talking about happening sounds pretty rough. I may have to try to set an Ultron account as well
Pedersoli is superior. they are fully operational while the Military Heritage weapons are incomplete. No touch holes drilled. you have tohave a gunsmith work on them. that makes them suspect in my book.
as you can see from our videos you dont necessarily have to have a gunsmith work on them
Black powder only made in Italy on the barrel🤢
yeah and over 1000 dollars more expensive at this point
@@Real11BangBang I personally would rather have the military heritage being that it's crudely made it's more like the originals.
With a bit of refining the Heritage fire arms can be brought up to as fine a quality as the more expensive mods .. just get your skill levels up and you'll be satisfied
Exactly
I've had several Access Heritage that don't spark well out of the box... a little Cherry Red with a propane torch will fix that up... check Rob's video on British Muzzleloader's on the subject... Pedersoli sling swivels are the wrong shape... And my 1728 Charleville from MH/AH has been a reliable shooter out of the box... Also if you want something other than a Shortland Pattern, its either Indian guns or custom builds... I have a collection of several " Brown Bess " muskets to show the variations in the evolution of the gun, 2 Pedersoli's one in original configuration, and one defarbed 7 Indian guns in various other configurations...and an old Miroku / Dixie gun works Short Land Pattern...
hi capt. i just wanna say we are big fans of your videos i especially enjoyed your 1803 harpers ferry video lots of good info in there
@@Real11BangBang Thanks, I've got more of that type video planned, I've been busy travelling to events lately, and when I'm home the weather hasn't been accommodating range time for shooting portions of the video... like yesterdays scout event, we didn't shoot the muskets or rifles at all due to the rain...
@@CaptRons18thcenturyyeah we got rained out today but luckily we had enough time to get our smooth bore loading techniques. Accuracy test video completed.
I think I'm going to have to go and go a little bit more into the enemy side of things. As in, I may or may not be ordering a Pattern 1776 kit from the rifle shop. Once I get that one in which I realize could be several years from now and get it completed, I think I want to do a video on the British rifle being the pattern 1776 versus the American rifle and for that I would probably go with the Woodsrunner
Also, I don't know if you saw our community post or not, but we will be having Rob from British muzzleloaders on our live chat on April 1st at 8:30 p.m. Central Time
@@Real11BangBang that would be cool… personally I would love to buy a Ferguson reproduction… but the $7K price is a bit steep for me right now…
I guess it's like you uberti and petta cus I sure like uberti but I have to do more work on them
Yeah, that's kind of how it is. I would say that the military heritage guns in some cases can be a little rougher than a pietta though
You can drill and tap a coned touch hole liner into the MH, and it will be just as fast.
I have done this on the Charleville and you are right. It does give you a very fast lock time
@@Real11BangBang I don't have a pedersoli myself, but I'd be willing to bet that they have done this to theirs. At the very least, they probably coned the inside of the chamber.
Very helpful to a beginner.
Glad it was helpful!
I have had pedersoli and uberti and pietta and accuracy was approcimately the same. Finish and fit was better on pedersoli functionality was similar on all 3.
With regards to the bayonet from MH i have had to make a wood mandrel for 25 Charlotte ville muskets and fit and number each one of the bayonets to fit properly and this was done the same way with the originals and how do I know this i was an armourer for 17 years with the 1st Co governor's foot guard and we have 400 original Charlotte ville muskets
Dependability and quick ignition could have something to do with a harder frisson I really like my pedersoli
I don't know if it's really the hardness of the hammer or just the polished internals and spring tension inside the lock and the feather spring underneath the hammer
If you have worn through the frizzen, they aren't all that hard to repair. If you send me a PM. I might be able to help.
On the subject of reliability, I believe that the hammers on the MH guns are a little too hard. I think this is why mine tends to dull flints and throw fewer sparks than other guns. I'm going to try and temper it back a bit.
I just ordered and received a casting for a new hammer for my Charlottesville from the rifle shop as well as a casting for a mainspring, I tried to see how to fit would look and it looks like it'll actually be pretty easy to get fit into the gun now just to get them hardened and tempered to the right point and install them
wrap fizzen in leather shove into tin can, close off can w/a hammer....cook can in a wood fire for 1 hour and then quench in a bucket of water ....frizzen will be repaired as the old people said
I'm leaning towards the military heritage because I actually like longer pattern, in terms of safety and handling are they good in that regards? Any issue with finish I can see past, and what loads do you use for land pattern Bess?
as far as finish goes it will depend on the gun you get. as far as loads go we shoot a 1f powder and you can shoot anywhere form 120gr to 200gr
@11BangBang Well that sounds great! I don't mind a rough fit and finish, I don't know what some folks expect, it's a repro of a pre-industrial mass produced military musket, I'd expect imperfections. Lol
1,800. Hundred dollars in Connecticut
Very nice video pard , But for me it would have to be Middlesex Village Trading Company 🤠
I believe they get their muskets from the same vendor as military heritage but I'm not 100% sure on that
@@Real11BangBang Could me pard !
Ahh yes my fellow warcrime enjoyer. Great video
Glad you enjoyed!
Good video
Glad you enjoyed
I've seen a lot of indian and Pakistani trying to be passed off as original. It's not too hard to spot a fake.
I've got one I've done some work on that is almost indistinguishable from the original pictured in bianchi's book French muskets 1717-1840
@@Real11BangBang that's all fair.
Stamps on the MH are just wrong in every way shape and form.
Well don't leave us hanging explain why.
@@Real11BangBang size of proofs on barrel , size and type of view stamps on breech are wrong , crown on lock plate wrong shape and type and size .
A few thoughts. Great video. I feel like there’s a similar argument to the Uberti vs. Pietta discussion. Two things that I felt like got skated over though we’re the stocks and parts availability. The Pedersoli guns use real walnut while the Indian muskets use Teak wood which is a ding In the authenticity department. Also you can get replacement parts for the pedersoli guns (though admittedly you do have to jump through some hoops). Good luck getting replacement parts for the Indian guns. Good video though. Very fair on what I’m sure is a very decisive topic. There’s nothing more that people who are into this kind of stuff like to do than argue about brand A vs. brand B. Keep it up!
That is absolutely a great point. Yes, I think I mentioned it, but I probably didn't dwell on it long enough. The walnut on the brown bess from pedersoli is far superior and makes it more historically accurate as for replacement parts, I'm about to test a theory which is I'm going to order a few parts from the rifle shop for my Charlottesville and I'm going to just see if I can't fit them to the gun.
@@Real11BangBang That would be an awesome video. I love the gunsmithing stuff. I'll be watching for it
there are original 3rd model Besses made with log wood from India folks !!!! England took wood from all their conquered colonies
So which would do 200 yards best?
Also add the Charlottesville? Concerning 200 yards
Honestly they pretty well all shoot the same at 200 The bess may drop one or two more inches at that range than the french gun
@@Real11BangBang It is because the Bess shoots a heavier ball, you should try to increase the charge to compensate
Living in a different country we can't have the touch hole drilled indian guns so what you run into is the worst of all being sent here some I would not trust to fire if you paid me.
So note that before attacking me.
Now the price is really high for something you have know idea if you can convert to shoot.
So pedersoli it is and I think that is understandable for us here.
I think they customs are also really clamping down on indian guns making it a huge headache of bureaucracy nobody wants.
They will add charges to cost for the dumbest things.
Depends on how much you value your eyesight and face, i guess. Without destructive and metallurgical testing, your just spitballing.
So I did a video on the subject with a 62 caliber fusil It took 1200 grains of FFFFG, three round balls and about 2 in of canvas wadding before it finally blew up and then when it did blow up it just blew out the last half inch of the barrel.
They're good to go
ua-cam.com/video/2StO9a1CYbk/v-deo.htmlsi=vsU5G3uzL0Hr9Tri
@@Real11BangBang science. You boys are clowns.
That's your counter argument "we're clowns" I'll take that as a win
@@Real11BangBang just to be clear, I'm saying the Italian repros are made of sketchy mystery metal. The Indian stuff should just be assumed to be seamed pipe. A sample of 1 is just that.
What company makes the best socket bayonets?
I'm not sure as we have never had a pedersoli bayonet
The front sight you refer to on the BB muskets is not a sight. It is a bayonette lug.
Just to clarify that.
ua-cam.com/video/ztt0_4cq27A/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
It is also referred to as a site in several manuals
Military Heritage allday.
I like the indian made guns BUT the Pedersoli firearms are made PROOFED and sold as firearms. The Indian made are not sold as a proofed firearm. Im talking real, modern proofing not historic proof marks
check out our "we blew up an india musket" video