OMG, I AM DUMB! I didn't talk about the parallels with Johanna Swann 🤦 We got introduced to her in Fire & Blood and she is a member of house Swann that got captured by Lysene captains. Sounds similar? I would say yes!
This theory is the type of ASoIaF theory that I love. Logical, looks at what would be of use to the story and plot, and connects to prior events that would tear two groups apart. Very well done.
I think this is a good theory. I like it because it makes sense because Swann has a logical reason to know specific characters lemore is working with. I had the thought just the other day that lemore could be one of Alys Ayrrn's daughter. The one that was knocked up by a sell sword, lost her baby then joined the silent sister. it would explain being a septa, and had stretch marks on her belly, but not why she would be working for Jon and illyrio, though her connection to a sell sword could logically explain how she wound up with a bunch of sell swords.
Never heard the ideas that she is Jeyne Swann that's brilliant ! Septa Lemore being Wenda the White Fawn is one of my alltime favourite theories ! There's also a fairly new theory that Lemore is The Lady Piper, Quellon Greyjoy'd 3rd wife which is very interesting. However, I think that Wenda is the most likely answer to her identity and it's lowkey one of the thigs i'm most looking forward to finding out in Winds ! Great video u become a new fave asoiaftuber:)))
Another, although far-fetched to say the least, support of this theory is Lady Swann's name. We know that martin puts a LOT of emphasis on names, to the degree that character ideas gets scrapped unless he finds a name for them that he feels summarize them. And Lady Swann shares her first name with another character we know, namely Jeyne Poole. A girl that grew up in a noble setting that was safe and stable. But then was destroyed and she was instead thrown into slavery, abuse and trauma followed by her being placed into a new identity (as Arya) as a part of the game of thrones. Sure, the parallels are weak so my argument is solemnly based upon the importance of names for Martin. But still something speaking in the theory's favor, although being more of a faint whisper. :)
Great Video! It's a very interesting angle to take with Lady Swann and the Kingswood Brotherhood, if George DOES intend to have her be someone else under a secret identity. Looking forward to that House Massey/Strong Heraldry analysis whenever you get the chance!
I mostly thought because she is so relatively undescribed that she was Aegons Wetnurse/Nanny and she helped Varys to smuggle a BABY, a little Human that can't speak and doesn't understand Language yet and only can cry when it doesn't like something, out of Kings Landing. Varys works with Kids for his Spying Network, but I doubt that he has a lot of experience with Babys. It would work with the Age, just because we have a lot of Teenage-pregnancies she doesn't have to be one of them. But I also believe that Elia planned with Varys together to smuggle her Son out of Kings Landing, to switch a Baby is easier than to switch a Child where People exist who know how it should look like. Not like a Baby who are easily mistaken for another Baby. That's one of the Reasons Babys in Hospitals get little Plates with their Names on it or the Parents Familyname.
Being a wet nurse is actually very very plausible, or in general, caretaker when Aegon was little. That being said, I am not 100% sold with Varys' story of the kid being Aegon.
@@CompanyOfTheCat but it would make good Story, the YT-Channel Hill's Alive made some good points for it. Watch her Video I honestly forgot the Details.😅 But I think he is who he says he is and honestly, if Aegon looks like his Father but is as a King more like Nymeria, that would make a difference and think about it, Rhaegar obsessed with Prophecy to bring the Prince that was promised into this World because his Family wants Dragons back, but bot only is he one of the Reasons his Family lost the Throne his 2 surviving Kids are actually more like their Mothers and want everything in this World, especially peace, prosperity and a family, but not Dragons. And besides the fact that it would be hilarious, it would give their Mothers more agency without them being alive.
@@Ilargizuri Yeah, I have seen her video, since I watch her videos in general, but still, there are some very important things, that leave plotholes. Idk, such an important revelation in the last book, backed up by an anti-Targaryen company is fishy, to say the least.
@@CompanyOfTheCat I agree, it is fishy, but I think we had enough pretenders by now and now many see giants when there is only a Wind Mill. So i think Aegon is who he is, after Ned and a random Kings Guard could safe 3 Targaryens, why should Varys not be able to do it? Sometimes a Wind Mill is not Giant, it is just a Wind Mill.
I agree that Ashara isn't Lemore, and that the biggest issue is the purple eyes. I understand if we see Ashara, there will probably not see her eyes immediately, but this is going to be a physical obscurity and not Martin writing around the biggest clue. I like your theory a lot, and hadn't considered it before! I do think Lemore is going to be a catalyst for information but not for plot, and having a connection with Selmy would be a good facet for this. Love your vids!
Yeah I don't get why people say she's Ashara. The big problem with that theory is that a few small tweaks from GRRM could've made it work great, but he didn't do that. Want to make Ashara a hidden identity character, but painted yourself in the corner by giving her really distinctive eyes? Not a problem - just have Lemore wear a veil that covers her eyes. Loads of female religious figures in asoiaf wear veils. But GRRM didn't do that. Or that crystal could be glamouring her. Just say that she wore the crystal even when bathing, and have a weird moment where her face looks Maynard Plumm-y: "Through the rain, all he could make out was a hooded shape and a single pale white eye. It was only when the man came forward that the shadowed face beneath the cowl took on the familiar features of Ser Maynard Plumm, the pale eye no more than the moonstone brooch that pinned his cloak at the shoulder." (The Mystery Knight). But GRRM didn't do that. Or have Tyrion mistake her eyes for blue at first, just as he does with Aegon. In an early Tyrion chapter, say that Lemore and YG's eyes are the same shade of blue, then later with the reveal that YG=Aegon, this implies to the reader that Lemore's eyes are also secretly purple. But GRRM didn't do that.
χαίρετε! Another awesome vid. I don't think she's super important, aside from being a foil for Tyrion, but I do think there is "le more" to her than meets the eyes. That just seems like a very GRRMy bit of word play. However, if I were to don my tin foil cap, I get more double-agent, super spy vibes from her, but I'm not sure who she would be working for, really (FM, IB, Quaithe?). Hope to see you in the Streams soon. Cheers!
the problem with Jeyne Swann is that we know almost nothing about her? like, why not have Barristan think about the time he rescued her in adwd, or have Jaime think about all the brotherhood victims at darry in affc, or fiund somewhere to namedrop her in the more recent books. By then, grrm would've known that he was adding a lemore character, would've probably written some of the tyrion chapters where he meets her. Or give her a connection to swans or something like that
Tbh I don't find this a problem, bc I think the main reason for focusing so much on her, is because Tyrion is horny. We just want a Lady (so someone with a connection to a house that could be useful), that could be a able and be down to help Griff. I really don't think she's that important.
@@CompanyOfTheCat yeah but that's not how grrm rolls? for instance, when he decided to make blackfyres a thing, and give Aegon lots of blackfyre vibes, there's random kernels of blackfyre exposition EVERYWHERE. We get a lot on Barba/Missy's Teats from Jaime; the Inn with the black dragon in Brienne; lots on Maelys the Monstrous and Bittersteel from Arys Oakheart and Barristan and Tyrion and JonCon and Theon. grrm LOVES his little tangential exposition dumps of lore
@Mj Jetson yes, but Lemore would have something more to go with it if she was that important. I mean she doesn't get anything except that she's a lady. Also, GRRM love triangles in general not I ly love ones, he does it with family and friends too, Theon being an example, so I find it way more plausible to be a person familiar with both parties that has to choose, and not a person that we will need this much backstory (bc we will need I don't even know how much explanation if she is THAT groundbreaking) in the last books.
Yes, I guess, even though not convincing enough, but still the timeline doesn't fit. Griff and Lemore seem like they are for quite a lot of time together with Young Griff and the way things are described in Oldtown, Malora and Layton were with people up until the Ironborn news broke out.
Yeah, I think this was one of the main support reasons for the White Fawn right? I am not 100% correct if I'm wrong. That Lemore is the White Fawn since a Toyne was also the leader of the KB, so JonCon being a friend of Toyne could mean he was familiar with the White Fawn, who might have been a Cafferen, thus the name. That being said, and I never mentioned it in the video, bc I forgot Lemore being the WF, doesn't make much sense mostly with the timeline tbh. Wenda was described as young and fair and Lemore being over 40 means that at the time would have been over 30, so I doubt Westerosi men would describe her as young.
I hate those character y is actually character x theories. Especially the Septa Lemora is Ashara one. They don’t serve the story and just sound like stupid people trying to act smart. I’m sure there are a character or two George will give the old switcheroo treatment but not everybody is somebody else. Great video as always!
Plus, we already have a character on that ship that there is a possibility to be a different person, Young Griff, I doubt Lemore too would be a huge revelation.
Tyrion is too busy looking at her body - not her eyes. And handsome is a word used for women back in the day. It does not mean "sturdy". 👉During the Victorian Era "handsome" for a women means: "striking and/or imposing in appearance".
I put the quote on the screen, it is obvious that in this series this is not the norm and handsome is not equal to pretty or extremely attractive like in many older works. Something that is normal in modern literature in general especially fantasy works. "When Lemore climbed back onto the deck, Tyrion savored the sight of water trickling between her breasts, her smooth skin glowing golden in the morning light. She was past forty, *more handsome than pretty,* but still easy on the eye." The adjective handsome is not equal or the same as fair or pretty. Even more, because she is described as easy on the eye in the next line, which is not fair, pretty, or striking. About the "he didn't look her in the eyes/face" is kind of a whatever excuse. They were traveling for days together, he described her gaze and the way she was looking at him and do we really think that if her eyes were purple he wouldn't say anything? This is not just poor writing it is on the verge of being stupid writing. He is describing how she removed a strand of her from her eyes, but didn't see if her eyes were purple while she was wearing all white? An older couple with a Rhoynish cast to their features stood close beside the tiller, whilst a handsome septa in a soft white robe stepped through the cabin door and *pushed a lock of dark brown hair from her eyes.*
I like this theory as it works in my head canon, that doesnt mean im right. However with glamours in the story we cant use the purple eyes or lack there of as proof. Anyone with purple eyes trying to blend in should try find a way cover them up. Age is fair, few years off but could be lying about the age
Yeah as another comment said GRRM could had left the crystals on, or a veil or something and it could be way more believable to use glamour or something.
I love how fucking fiery you are. I love that you get worked up because I get worked up over this stuff. It’s very feminine and charming and you seem like you would be cool to have a conversation with😂Your wit is ✨👌❤️👍✨
@@laurelsilberman5705 hahahah thank you💖💖 for real though Ashara = Lemore is everything wrong with asoiaf theories and is one of the very few that gets me😂😂
The plot is written to make more than one theory possible and than develop one or more string of it further and close others so writer his Schrödinger cats or there exist ASoIaF-cats, but in the end, only when he brings out the a new book, we will knew 😀
Ashara being Jyana and wife of How land disgusts me tbh, Ashara deserves better than frog eaters 🙃 but she is not Lemore either, she is probably dead and safe from Howland the Traitor I hope. Lemore though isn't Jeyne Swann either, she is a healer probably from Braavos, a house of healers in Braavos is associated with color red, so probably a house with a red door, because Lemore means healer, also Lemore is name of a tree, a goldenrod tree to be specific, and maybe Daenerys' red house had a Lemore tree and not a lemon tree
Tbh I don't think Ser Barristan switching sides is one far of a stretch. The old guy has being doing it since always, he was with Aerys, then switched to Robert, then he planned to stay with Joffrey until that little piece of turd dumped him and he ran away searching for I guess Viserys when he realized that only Daenerys was left to be followed... Yeah, that man lives to serve a king no matter who that is, if Daenerys refuses to leave Essos and embraces a well needed fire and blood to the ghiscaris and then the Volantenese I can see Barristan going to Westeros if he knows about someone who's already there and with an alleged better claim than Daenerys. He's not a traitor, just an imperfect man whose only goal in life is to serve the King in turn and who will probably try to arbitrate between the two factions.
Idk the reason I don't see him change sides again is, bc he never changed sides because he wanted to necessarily. He was in the Kingsguard, he had to be with the crown, and after Robert's win, he stayed since he hadn't any involvement with Lyanna, etc. The guard doesn't change always when the king is changing. And he went to Dany, bc they removed him, he didn't just leave. He went to her bc he had heard all the plot that was going on in the small council. Also, he is looking at Dany and is thinking of Ashara. It's been 84 years, and he is still infatuated with her.
Both Barristan and Arthur (and other knights and kingsguards) were there along with Jeyne and her Septa. We are told Arthur killed the smiling knight and Barristan killed Simon Toyne who was the leader of the brotherhood and saved Jeyne and her Septa.
Outstanding 👍👍 it is thought that humans find patterns where there are none an evolutionary thing, so yeah people will also pull shit out of their own ass regarding asoiaf
Ugh all the Lemore theories seem to be A) suppose [either Ashara or Tyene's mom] didn't match what we should expect from her physical description at all, or B) suppose [some other pretty minor female character] had a baby and something happened to the baby. Still, Lemore's identity is framed as a mystery, so i think she's gotta be somebody: "He had sniffed out the truth beneath the dyed blue hair of Griff and Young Griff easily enough, and Yandry and Ysilla seemed to be no more than they claimed to be, whilst Duck was somewhat less. Lemore, though … Who is she, really? Why is she here? Not for gold, I'd judge. What is this prince to her? Was she ever a true septa?" (Tyrion VI ADwD)
As I said, I just think Tyrion is horny and overthinking, bc obviously he's in a very weird situation. She's a lady so she knows people back in westeros, simple enough.
idk sometimes the hot naked lady is just a hot lady that we happen to see naked. Seems in the moment the most important person in our lives, and in that moment she probably is - and larger than life itself one could say - but some years later only the color of the eyes and her cup size remains in our memory. A beautiful, haunting and magical day that is; and yet maybe we never get to see her again. As a masterful wordsmith, great man and poet once said: 'thank the Gods for Bessie, and her tits' but yep I don't think she's Ashara or someone that big. If hiding eye colors relatively easily was a thing, we'd have at least a couple of characters referencing that. So she COULD be a Faceless Man but in that case all bets are off I guess, and she might as well be Syrio Forel
Oh yeah, I agree if Ashara is someone, I am gonna go with Jeyne, but the possibility of being actually a random Septa is huge and the same goes for all the FM theories at least imo. She is way too minor of a character she doesn't have any setup apart from JC thinking "Oh she has her own struggles", which let's be honest who doesn't? 😂
@@CompanyOfTheCat even the minor characters are so colorful that every baker gets an Azor Ahai and/or FM angle, although 'having their own struggles' is one of the broadest descriptions ever given of the baseline human condition 😂 idk, always thought her role was cool enough by itself - a lady of the cloth teaching about the Faith to the wandering court of exiles (I like 'travelling scholar' characters very much) - but if she has a little more backstory as Jeyne, even better, really.
She's not Mallora - Mallora is a vision crazed magician in a tower using magic to defend her city. Lemore is a church lady - one that wants a revolution, but I know some of those!
I don't think she's Ashara Dayne, but I also never got why Ashara would have to go into hiding if she married Howland Reed. He's some kind of nobility, it's not like marrying him would be any more scandalous for her family than having a child out of wedlock and jumping off a cliff. And I don't see anyone traipsing into the marshes to go find her if the Crannogmen don't want her being found.
Have you seen the playlist from In Deep Geek? If not I wholeheartedly recommend, it is the only theory of Ashara I have heard that makes sense, because it explains the events from the point Ned reached Dorne and after, because every other theory that I am familiar with doesn't explain the stance of Daynes towards Ned. From the info we get, the Daynes were involved and probably knew about Jon, hiding Ashara might have been crucial depending on what she knew. Also, I haven't seen many people mention this, but Ashara I think would be a good way to explain Valyrian traits in case Jon had them, especially the eyes which aren't always clear on babies.
@@CompanyOfTheCat wasn't Jon already like a year old by the time Ned returned from the south though? I can't remember much of the timeline. Tbh if Ashara hadn't been brought up by Barry I would have just assumed she was dead, even now I feel like she's a red herring.
GRRM has said that Jon is younger than Robb and was conceived indeed after the war started and Ned married Cat, he was some months old when the stuff in Dorne took place, and we were even told that he still needed a wetnurse to breastfeed. For me, if IDG is not correct, I think she is not alive, that being said the suicide scenario doesn't make sense with how high the Daynes think and speak of Ned. He killed Arthur and Ashara died bc of him and the Daynes said "You know what I never liked these two thanks Ned, I will name my heir after you"? Something is off, we are missing information and this is why most Ashara theories are kinda random I think.
Honestly, I think the Ashara=Lemore theory comes from the redditors wanting to have classical fantasy stories or classical fairy tale logic. Jon Connington is a Targaryen loyalist who is in love with Rhaegar. Ashara was Elia's only named lady in waiting and fans see her as being close to her (and she's the only person that we know was close to Elia whose whereabouts are a question mark if we accept the theory that she's not dead). It's basically wanting to have a mother figure for fake!Aegon who was close to her mother. Basically, the fandom thinks this is fake!Aegon's story, NOT Jon Connington's (which it is, it's his story of trying to chase after ghosts and being fooled because of it).
I’m just gonna say this: I think the faith of the seven is the faith of old valyria, the 14 flames were the gods they worshipped And were all couples, sister-wives And brother-husbands to eachother as it follows: Balerion-Vhagar Caraxes-Meraxes Arrax-Onyxa Vermax-Tessarion Morghul-Meleys Tyraxes-Syrax Terrax-Shrykos If each couple produced one son/daughter we have 7 heirs of old valyria religion: Warrior Father Mother Smith Crone Stranger Maiden. What I don’t understand is the reason why melisandre And the faith of R’hllor in general can’t wait to burn the 7 idols whenever they get the chance. Maybe as you said the faith of R’hllor And the faith of the drowned god (submarine volcano that needs blood sacrifices to mantain its flame alive) are the same religion practiced by either exiled Valyrians or Valyrian who escaped/predicted the doom.
@@CompanyOfTheCat Unfortunately I’m no greenseer so I would opt for option n1 I have to say though that I didn’t finish this video yet (I know I know capital sin) But I promise I will watch them all, please keep up the great work cause you helped me realize many things about asoiaf
1. Danaerys is Ashara’s daughter, the product of rape by Aerys II at Harrenhal. It happened during the hunt for the Knight of the Laughing Tree that took the Kingsguard away. 2. Ashara left with Ned for the Eyrie after Harrenhal Tourney. Barristan Selmy knew all about it, but was sworn to the king and his secrets. 3. Ned kept Ashara secret from Robert, but hid her somewhere in the Vale. Ashara left the Eyrie with Ned and was the “fisherman’s daughter” who knew how to navigate a boat from the rivers of the Vale to Sisterton. Ned gave her money there to secure passage home to Starfall. 4. Ned learned about Lyanna at the Tower of Joy from Oberyn leading the Dornish armies south after the Sack of KL. Ned told Oberyn about Elia and her kids, so Oberyn reciprocated by telling him about Lyanna. 5. Oberyn helped Ned lift the siege and secure the Redwyne Fleet off the coast of Storm’s End, which was later present to rescue Ashara after she dove into the Torrentine. 6. Ned took her baby and delivered her to Oberyn, who smuggled her to Braavos at the Sea Lord’s palace. He claimed the baby was Danaerys to secure the betrothal of Viserys with Arianne. 7. Ashara escaped to Essos in the Sept Beyond the Sea.
With Malora, I don't think she is mad, or has visions, or any of that - Leyton Hightower can fulfill that role. I think she got pregnant out of wedlock 10ish years ago, and went to Essos to have the baby in secret. (no clue what happened to the baby) There's no proof of this, but we're speculating a ton with every Lemore theory. The "she's mad in a tower" thing is just a cover story, something that would be seen as plausible given that her father's been locked in his tower for 10ish years, and would hide the fact that Lord hightower's eldest daughter had a kid out of wedlock. Varys and Illyrio would have motive to recruit her, as the Hightowers are super powerful and have a reputation for staying neutral. the varys master plan seems to involve other factions tearing each other apart, then swooping in afterwards to take over. the hightower forces would still be fresh after the carnage, so its important to have them on your side (euron screws up this plan). As for what purpose Malora could serve as Lemore, the possibilities are endless - its kinda hard to speculate cuz i don't know what GRRM has in store for the hightowers or for euron. She could get Aegon to go support the Hightowers against Euron, which could make Aegon super popular with the smallfolk for saving the realm (and thus make dany super unpopular when she arrives and fights him), or that could lead Dany to stupidly ally with Euron "the-enemy-of-my-enemy" thing. If Euron takes over oldtown and slaughters the Hightowers, Malora could have a role as a surviving claimant, leading to another wave of fighting? Aegon's cause has a lot of exiles who feel entitled to land in the Reach, so their interactions with people who haven't been exiled for generations (people like the hightowers who now probably hold land once held by the ancestors of these exiles) could be really interesting? As someone whose from oldtown, but not in oldtown, she could give a lot of insight about what's up with the hightowers to break up the info dumps in the Sam chapters. that way the reader knows more than the characters. Similar to how in A Game of Thrones, none of the PoVs know that Varys and Illyrio are working together, but the reader does as the info is there but split between Dany, Arya and Ned. Ultimately, I don't think there's great evidence for Malora=Lemore, but I think it is the strongest candidate?
Idk, there is no evidence and we will need A LOT of explanation, bc there is much contradicting information. Also, Malora has the reputation of Mad, not Layton exactly, so if someone has dreams I am gonna bet on Malora. Plus there are some parallels with Troy, and Malora would play the role of Cassandra.
I dont beleive jayne would be that helful in taking over the storm lands shes a high born lady not a battle commander. I think you put waaaaay too much weight on tyrion not noticing if her eyes were purple. Tyrion literally didnt notice young griffs eye colour unil he had figured out who he was meaning he thought they were blue at first. And before you say he comments on the way she gazes at him, that means nothing expression is shown in the shaoe of the eyebrow, the cheekbones and lips. Noticing someones expression in no way means you were looking into someones eyeballs to see what colour they are. Not that he could do if he wanted to tyrion is around 4 ft tall. He is no where near eye level and im 6 ft 3 and dont notice eye colour immediately. You talk about tyrion knowing YGs eye colour but not noticing lemore but fail to mention that that just proves he didnt notice the eye colour straught away like you claim. It took a load of detective work to pay so much attention. And why does he never mention Shaes eye colour? I think most people try to disprove her being ashara because it strongly supports N+A=j far more than 'promice me ned'supports R+L=J even though there is FAAAAR moe evidence supporting the former. Also the glamour talk is completely unnecessary she was a maid for the princess not a witch. To say just make her wear a veal is a weak argument aslo. She is posing as a septa not actually being one! Lemore being anyone but ashara is flimsy at vest the are described the same way by many charecters. What does this add to the story you ask? Maybe it gives us a reason that ashara had to swap jon with rheagar and lyannas boy griff. Tell me griff doesnt look more like the son of rheagar than jon.....😂 its baffles me how so many people are completley sold on R+l=J when it does NOTHING for the story what so ever.
The Ashara=Lemore doesn’t prove, at all, the NAJ, like at all. Because with the same logic, I can say that A=L proves that Ashara is Dany’s mother. A Lemore and Jon meeting is also HIGHLY unlikely considering what is going on in the south, the weather, and what is going on up North. Tyrion says all the time I saw her do this, remove her from her eyes, observing everything, because when she isn’t naked she is covered head to toe, describing her with the exact opposite words Ashara is described by most people in the novels. Lemore: She was past forty, more handsome than pretty, but still easy on the eye. Ashara: And they told how afterward Ned had carried Ser Arthur's sword back to the beautiful young sister who awaited him in a castle called Starfall on the shores of the Summer Sea. The Lady Ashara Dayne, tall and fair, with haunting violet eyes. His choice would have been a young maiden not long at court, one of Elia's companions … though compared to Ashara Dayne, the Dornish princess was a kitchen drab. Even after all these years, Ser Barristan could still recall Ashara's smile, the sound of her laughter. He had only to close his eyes to see her, with her long dark hair tumbling about her shoulders and those haunting purple eyes. Daenerys has the same eyes. Ashara was not easy on the eye and she is also not a decade older than Ned. Also, he never saw her eye to eye, while traveling for days they were both all the time standing? He didn’t see Aegon’s eyes immediately because of the hair color, and because of the hat, the moment the light was correct he commented on it, Lemore wears white all the time, there is no camouflage. He also comments on JonCon’s color, are these people shorter than Lemore? The height really doesn’t explain anything. After he caught Aegon’s eye color he would have noticed the Septas too when eating or something while all sitting, but he doesn’t and if we agree that he didn’t then we agree that Tyrion is suddenly dumb because Ashara’s eyes are amethyst/violet, not bluish purple that under certain light and colors could look blue. JonCon's are a very light striking baby blue and YG are indigo, both noticeable, Lemore's eyes are most likely not that remarkable, simple as that. And I am gonna leave the ANJ questions here because again these things do not make sense: 1. Jon Snow is known to have been conceived during Robert's Rebellion (according to grrm himself), and Eddard and Ashara do not seem to have been in each other's vicinity at the time of conception. Maybe they could meet somewhere, but still big if from what we know about both of them, they were not very close. Plus, Barristan Selmy recalls that Ashara was "dishonored" at the tourney at Harrenhal, which is clearly not the case for Jon. If he was conceived at Harrenhall he would be 1+ years old. He would walk, he would say words, and he would have teeth, the teeth is something that people often dismiss in these theories but a three-month-old with a 5 has a big difference in teeth. Cat wouldn’t believe that the baby was younger than Robb when Ned brought him home. We know that Jon is younger than Robb because they could pass him as a baby as younger, even if he was born earlier, still doesn’t make sense. Babies have HUGE differences from week to week especially when they are that young if a baby was 5 months instead of 3-4 the difference is BIG, wet nurses would notice, Cat would notice, and people especially at that time were very close to children all the time, they would see that the kid is not the right age. Actually, babies are way easier to tell if you are familiar with them like all wet nurses and maesters were than let’s say kids, teens, and adults. To say that people were ignorant in this department is definitely not true. Have you seen older ladies with babies? Most of them can pinpoint months very easily and not because they are experts at biology, but because many of them had more siblings and kids and grandchildren, people were not ignorants. So yeah, Jon should have been VERY close in age with Robb, probably younger, since Ned said he was conceived AFTER his wedding. Even with the “I am not that strong at math” GRRM said when a fan corrected him, still it didn’t fix the issues. 2. If Ashara is Jon's mother, Eddard would have no reason to take the child from its mother, nor keep her identity a secret from everyone, including Jon. Fr there is no reason for such furtivety for something like that. This is a question that people never answer in any other theory, but Ned doesn’t have a reason to not say anything to anyone, Jon, Cat, Robert, and so on if his mom was Ashara, Wylla o whoever else. 3. At Starfall, despite the belief that Ashara and Eddard had been in love, Ashara is NOT believed to be Jon's mother. 4.If Eddard had fathered a bastard on Ashara and taken her child away from her, causing her suicide, why did the Daynes name their heir after him? 5. Cat mentioned her because people in Winterfell said the name and she heard. Servants and household members who were at the tourney knew that these two at Harrenhal had a fling most likely, so of course they would say her name, but servants and common people talk and spread gossip and rumors all the time, so it doesn’t really mean anything. In Winterfell servants were saying it was Ashara, bc they knew the Harrenhal events, as we saw in Arya chapters, in the three sisters, they say it was a fisherman's daughter, the Daynes say it was Wyla, meaning that everyone says the rumor they have heard. As for the I thought Rhaegar for the first time in years I deeply believe is a GRRM mistake or it means he thought of him extensively and his character, because Ned speaks of Rhaegar in earlier chapters, and thinks about Rhaegar in the chapter before the claim "for the first time in years" is made. 6. Ned thinks of Rhaegar way more than Ashara, bc he actually never thinks of her, which I find way more curious than not thinking of Rhaegar (which wasn't even true). 7. Why is Jon connected to blue roses meaning Lyanna’s flower and not maybe purple, stars, or dawn or something? In the context of the series the RLJ came out of nowhere because they were removing all the foreshadowing, but in the books, there are many hints, since book 1. 8. If indeed Ashara is Jon’s mom at least to me seems like a very poorly crafted story, because all these are big issues that affect the character’s personalities. If Ned took Jon instead of leaving him at Dorne then we have to recontextualize his whole character, because this is almost cruel. Jon would have a MUCH better life at Dorne. Bastards are way more accepted with a better position. People were correct about Ned not being honorable and cheating on Cat since he said that he was conceived after his wedding, he was cruel because he deprived Jon of a better life and strained his wedding for no reason at all. Because all these are not noble are selfish. So, was Cersei correct about Ned, and was he just another Robert? Plus, Jane doesn’t need to know strategy, her house seat needs to know and the gates, simple as that. I am not gonna continue this because it’s obvious that we are moving in circles since we do not agree😂. Let’s just wait for winds and George.
@CompanyOfTheCat it doesn't prove N+A you are right but it does fit the theory. Ashara being Danny's mom doesn't fit though otherwise where did she get her valerian hair and dragon riding/birthing abilities. Barrestan thinking a pretty high born girl with purple eyes looks like another pretty high born girl with purple eyes it's more about the eye colour than anything. Unless now it's R+ A =D? Now I'm actually all for dany being the daughter of rheagar and lyanna that makes allot of sense and explains the lemon tree and the red door situation.she is actually described as very easy on the eye. The word hansom is used which if you look at the definition is a very flattering compliment you also seem to forget she is not a young woman anymore you also conveniently didnt mention how tyrion describes her hair as flowing loose around her shoulders an incredibly similar description to barristans long dark hair tumbling about her shoulders 👀 a Cersei is d escribed as much more human looking after with stretch marks and sagging skin by Kevin Lanister on her walk of shame after being described as beautiful before. This is a human woman before the time of eyelashes,ghds and makeup. Why would she look the same 20 years later? Do you think she is immortal?
I am I'm sorry UA-cam keeps crashing please have a read in say 45 minutes after I have got there. And I know I must be annoying you I'm genuinely sorry I'm just very passionate about this. I respect you and your content and am enjoying this so yeah please give me a little time I have an answer to every point 🙏 thanks and sorry again 😊
Now about the ages not matching. THEY DO MATCH! lol ned is the same age as ashara. He's in his mid 30s in the first book. It's easily been 5 years by the time tyrion meets lemore in dance. So that would make her 40. Ok he says over 40 🤷♂️ but people age at different speeds and tyrions opinion isn't fact so a 40 year old being seen as over 40 isn't a big deal it's easy to be out 3 years when guessing someone's age so I don't think that the ages are off at all
Nah, pretty much what Mj said in another comment here. "Yeah I don't get why people say she's Ashara. The big problem with that theory is that a few small tweaks from GRRM could've made it work great, but he didn't do that." So, I'm gonna agree with them, the possibility is close to 0 if not 0.
@@NotAnotherAccount735 Nah, safe to say Ashara didnt miscarry a girl but birthed a healthy boy. She and Ned did a baby swap (something George has hinted at plenty of times) Ned Goes North with Jon, Ashara goes East with Lyanna and Rhegars son.
OMG, I AM DUMB! I didn't talk about the parallels with Johanna Swann 🤦
We got introduced to her in Fire & Blood and she is a member of house Swann that got captured by Lysene captains. Sounds similar? I would say yes!
This theory is the type of ASoIaF theory that I love. Logical, looks at what would be of use to the story and plot, and connects to prior events that would tear two groups apart. Very well done.
I think this is a good theory. I like it because it makes sense because Swann has a logical reason to know specific characters lemore is working with.
I had the thought just the other day that lemore could be one of Alys Ayrrn's daughter. The one that was knocked up by a sell sword, lost her baby then joined the silent sister. it would explain being a septa, and had stretch marks on her belly, but not why she would be working for Jon and illyrio, though her connection to a sell sword could logically explain how she wound up with a bunch of sell swords.
Never heard the ideas that she is Jeyne Swann that's brilliant ! Septa Lemore being Wenda the White Fawn is one of my alltime favourite theories ! There's also a fairly new theory that Lemore is The Lady Piper, Quellon Greyjoy'd 3rd wife which is very interesting. However, I think that Wenda is the most likely answer to her identity and it's lowkey one of the thigs i'm most looking forward to finding out in Winds !
Great video u become a new fave asoiaftuber:)))
i'd really like to see you review more theories because god knows that there are more than enough that hold no water
Another, although far-fetched to say the least, support of this theory is Lady Swann's name. We know that martin puts a LOT of emphasis on names, to the degree that character ideas gets scrapped unless he finds a name for them that he feels summarize them. And Lady Swann shares her first name with another character we know, namely Jeyne Poole. A girl that grew up in a noble setting that was safe and stable. But then was destroyed and she was instead thrown into slavery, abuse and trauma followed by her being placed into a new identity (as Arya) as a part of the game of thrones. Sure, the parallels are weak so my argument is solemnly based upon the importance of names for Martin. But still something speaking in the theory's favor, although being more of a faint whisper. :)
Jeyne rhymes with pain.
There is symbolism with Hugor and the Swan Maidens too, but that came to me after I had the video ready 😂
Boobage had me laughing so hard I had to hit my inhaler.
Great Video! It's a very interesting angle to take with Lady Swann and the Kingswood Brotherhood, if George DOES intend to have her be someone else under a secret identity. Looking forward to that House Massey/Strong Heraldry analysis whenever you get the chance!
I mostly thought because she is so relatively undescribed that she was Aegons Wetnurse/Nanny and she helped Varys to smuggle a BABY, a little Human that can't speak and doesn't understand Language yet and only can cry when it doesn't like something, out of Kings Landing. Varys works with Kids for his Spying Network, but I doubt that he has a lot of experience with Babys.
It would work with the Age, just because we have a lot of Teenage-pregnancies she doesn't have to be one of them. But I also believe that Elia planned with Varys together to smuggle her Son out of Kings Landing, to switch a Baby is easier than to switch a Child where People exist who know how it should look like. Not like a Baby who are easily mistaken for another Baby. That's one of the Reasons Babys in Hospitals get little Plates with their Names on it or the Parents Familyname.
Being a wet nurse is actually very very plausible, or in general, caretaker when Aegon was little.
That being said, I am not 100% sold with Varys' story of the kid being Aegon.
@@CompanyOfTheCat but it would make good Story, the YT-Channel Hill's Alive made some good points for it. Watch her Video I honestly forgot the Details.😅
But I think he is who he says he is and honestly, if Aegon looks like his Father but is as a King more like Nymeria, that would make a difference and think about it, Rhaegar obsessed with Prophecy to bring the Prince that was promised into this World because his Family wants Dragons back, but bot only is he one of the Reasons his Family lost the Throne his 2 surviving Kids are actually more like their Mothers and want everything in this World, especially peace, prosperity and a family, but not Dragons. And besides the fact that it would be hilarious, it would give their Mothers more agency without them being alive.
@@Ilargizuri Yeah, I have seen her video, since I watch her videos in general, but still, there are some very important things, that leave plotholes. Idk, such an important revelation in the last book, backed up by an anti-Targaryen company is fishy, to say the least.
@@CompanyOfTheCat I agree, it is fishy, but I think we had enough pretenders by now and now many see giants when there is only a Wind Mill. So i think Aegon is who he is, after Ned and a random Kings Guard could safe 3 Targaryens, why should Varys not be able to do it? Sometimes a Wind Mill is not Giant, it is just a Wind Mill.
I agree that Ashara isn't Lemore, and that the biggest issue is the purple eyes. I understand if we see Ashara, there will probably not see her eyes immediately, but this is going to be a physical obscurity and not Martin writing around the biggest clue.
I like your theory a lot, and hadn't considered it before! I do think Lemore is going to be a catalyst for information but not for plot, and having a connection with Selmy would be a good facet for this. Love your vids!
I am binge watching the crap out of this channel!
Always enjoy your analysis
Yeah I don't get why people say she's Ashara. The big problem with that theory is that a few small tweaks from GRRM could've made it work great, but he didn't do that.
Want to make Ashara a hidden identity character, but painted yourself in the corner by giving her really distinctive eyes? Not a problem - just have Lemore wear a veil that covers her eyes. Loads of female religious figures in asoiaf wear veils. But GRRM didn't do that.
Or that crystal could be glamouring her. Just say that she wore the crystal even when bathing, and have a weird moment where her face looks Maynard Plumm-y: "Through the rain, all he could make out was a hooded shape and a single pale white eye. It was only when the man came forward that the shadowed face beneath the cowl took on the familiar features of Ser Maynard Plumm, the pale eye no more than the moonstone brooch that pinned his cloak at the shoulder." (The Mystery Knight). But GRRM didn't do that.
Or have Tyrion mistake her eyes for blue at first, just as he does with Aegon. In an early Tyrion chapter, say that Lemore and YG's eyes are the same shade of blue, then later with the reveal that YG=Aegon, this implies to the reader that Lemore's eyes are also secretly purple. But GRRM didn't do that.
χαίρετε! Another awesome vid. I don't think she's super important, aside from being a foil for Tyrion, but I do think there is "le more" to her than meets the eyes. That just seems like a very GRRMy bit of word play. However, if I were to don my tin foil cap, I get more double-agent, super spy vibes from her, but I'm not sure who she would be working for, really (FM, IB, Quaithe?). Hope to see you in the Streams soon. Cheers!
I was lurking on LML's livestream yesterday 😂
@@CompanyOfTheCat Ha-ha! Say hello next time :)
the problem with Jeyne Swann is that we know almost nothing about her? like, why not have Barristan think about the time he rescued her in adwd, or have Jaime think about all the brotherhood victims at darry in affc, or fiund somewhere to namedrop her in the more recent books. By then, grrm would've known that he was adding a lemore character, would've probably written some of the tyrion chapters where he meets her. Or give her a connection to swans or something like that
Tbh I don't find this a problem, bc I think the main reason for focusing so much on her, is because Tyrion is horny.
We just want a Lady (so someone with a connection to a house that could be useful), that could be a able and be down to help Griff. I really don't think she's that important.
@@CompanyOfTheCat yeah but that's not how grrm rolls? for instance, when he decided to make blackfyres a thing, and give Aegon lots of blackfyre vibes, there's random kernels of blackfyre exposition EVERYWHERE. We get a lot on Barba/Missy's Teats from Jaime; the Inn with the black dragon in Brienne; lots on Maelys the Monstrous and Bittersteel from Arys Oakheart and Barristan and Tyrion and JonCon and Theon. grrm LOVES his little tangential exposition dumps of lore
@Mj Jetson yes, but Lemore would have something more to go with it if she was that important. I mean she doesn't get anything except that she's a lady. Also, GRRM love triangles in general not I ly love ones, he does it with family and friends too, Theon being an example, so I find it way more plausible to be a person familiar with both parties that has to choose, and not a person that we will need this much backstory (bc we will need I don't even know how much explanation if she is THAT groundbreaking) in the last books.
We need an Ashara/Reed video pls
A different video idk, since my thoughts are very very similar to IDG. But I am gonna do a ToJ at some point and they are involved.
@@CompanyOfTheCat👀
Thank you!
Powerful magic requires kings blood, that may be motivation enough for Malora to seek young griff.
Yes, I guess, even though not convincing enough, but still the timeline doesn't fit. Griff and Lemore seem like they are for quite a lot of time together with Young Griff and the way things are described in Oldtown, Malora and Layton were with people up until the Ironborn news broke out.
Also interesting is Blackheart, who was a Toyne, was Jon Conningtons friend lead the Golden Company while Jon was enlisted.
Yeah, I think this was one of the main support reasons for the White Fawn right? I am not 100% correct if I'm wrong. That Lemore is the White Fawn since a Toyne was also the leader of the KB, so JonCon being a friend of Toyne could mean he was familiar with the White Fawn, who might have been a Cafferen, thus the name.
That being said, and I never mentioned it in the video, bc I forgot Lemore being the WF, doesn't make much sense mostly with the timeline tbh. Wenda was described as young and fair and Lemore being over 40 means that at the time would have been over 30, so I doubt Westerosi men would describe her as young.
I hate those character y is actually character x theories. Especially the Septa Lemora is Ashara one. They don’t serve the story and just sound like stupid people trying to act smart.
I’m sure there are a character or two George will give the old switcheroo treatment but not everybody is somebody else.
Great video as always!
Plus, we already have a character on that ship that there is a possibility to be a different person, Young Griff, I doubt Lemore too would be a huge revelation.
I think you cracked the case!
Tyrion wasn't looking at her (ahem!) eyes.
Tyrion is too busy looking at her body - not her eyes. And handsome is a word used for women back in the day. It does not mean "sturdy". 👉During the Victorian Era "handsome" for a women means: "striking and/or imposing in appearance".
I put the quote on the screen, it is obvious that in this series this is not the norm and handsome is not equal to pretty or extremely attractive like in many older works. Something that is normal in modern literature in general especially fantasy works.
"When Lemore climbed back onto the deck, Tyrion savored the sight of water trickling between her breasts, her smooth skin glowing golden in the morning light. She was past forty, *more handsome than pretty,* but still easy on the eye."
The adjective handsome is not equal or the same as fair or pretty. Even more, because she is described as easy on the eye in the next line, which is not fair, pretty, or striking.
About the "he didn't look her in the eyes/face" is kind of a whatever excuse. They were traveling for days together, he described her gaze and the way she was looking at him and do we really think that if her eyes were purple he wouldn't say anything? This is not just poor writing it is on the verge of being stupid writing. He is describing how she removed a strand of her from her eyes, but didn't see if her eyes were purple while she was wearing all white?
An older couple with a Rhoynish cast to their features stood close beside the tiller, whilst a handsome septa in a soft white robe stepped through the cabin door and *pushed a lock of dark brown hair from her eyes.*
Tyrion described the eyes of most if not all other women he’s sexually interested in, if her eyes were strikingly purple he WOULD have noticed
This is the first theories video I watched an even after your video I think it's lyanna stark
I always went down the road of Malora Hightower….. I thought it was more through the “friends in the Reach” line.
I think the friends on the reach are the Tarlys tbh.
I have to admit, I didn't read the books for so long , I completely forgot about her
understandable😂
I like this theory as it works in my head canon, that doesnt mean im right. However with glamours in the story we cant use the purple eyes or lack there of as proof. Anyone with purple eyes trying to blend in should try find a way cover them up. Age is fair, few years off but could be lying about the age
Good go on Lady Swann though, never even knew of her that was awesome
Think most fans of this theory just want Ash to be alive, maybe Lemore is too obvious and they should look elsewhere if she is alive
Yeah as another comment said GRRM could had left the crystals on, or a veil or something and it could be way more believable to use glamour or something.
I love how fucking fiery you are. I love that you get worked up because I get worked up over this stuff. It’s very feminine and charming and you seem like you would be cool to have a conversation with😂Your wit is ✨👌❤️👍✨
@@laurelsilberman5705 hahahah thank you💖💖 for real though Ashara = Lemore is everything wrong with asoiaf theories and is one of the very few that gets me😂😂
The plot is written to make more than one theory possible and than develop one or more string of it further and close others so writer his Schrödinger cats or there exist ASoIaF-cats, but in the end, only when he brings out the a new book, we will knew 😀
Boobage... He hehe... The bear, the bear
titage
Ashara being Jyana and wife of How land disgusts me tbh, Ashara deserves better than frog eaters 🙃 but she is not Lemore either, she is probably dead and safe from Howland the Traitor I hope. Lemore though isn't Jeyne Swann either, she is a healer probably from Braavos, a house of healers in Braavos is associated with color red, so probably a house with a red door, because Lemore means healer, also Lemore is name of a tree, a goldenrod tree to be specific, and maybe Daenerys' red house had a Lemore tree and not a lemon tree
Just wait for my video on her…
Tbh I don't think Ser Barristan switching sides is one far of a stretch. The old guy has being doing it since always, he was with Aerys, then switched to Robert, then he planned to stay with Joffrey until that little piece of turd dumped him and he ran away searching for I guess Viserys when he realized that only Daenerys was left to be followed...
Yeah, that man lives to serve a king no matter who that is, if Daenerys refuses to leave Essos and embraces a well needed fire and blood to the ghiscaris and then the Volantenese I can see Barristan going to Westeros if he knows about someone who's already there and with an alleged better claim than Daenerys. He's not a traitor, just an imperfect man whose only goal in life is to serve the King in turn and who will probably try to arbitrate between the two factions.
Idk the reason I don't see him change sides again is, bc he never changed sides because he wanted to necessarily. He was in the Kingsguard, he had to be with the crown, and after Robert's win, he stayed since he hadn't any involvement with Lyanna, etc. The guard doesn't change always when the king is changing. And he went to Dany, bc they removed him, he didn't just leave. He went to her bc he had heard all the plot that was going on in the small council.
Also, he is looking at Dany and is thinking of Ashara. It's been 84 years, and he is still infatuated with her.
Awesome theory but wasn't it Arthur Dayne not Barristan who killed the smiling knight?
Both Barristan and Arthur (and other knights and kingsguards) were there along with Jeyne and her Septa. We are told Arthur killed the smiling knight and Barristan killed Simon Toyne who was the leader of the brotherhood and saved Jeyne and her Septa.
@@CompanyOfTheCat Ahh my mistake! Thanks for the polite correction Ms Cat 👍
Outstanding 👍👍 it is thought that humans find patterns where there are none an evolutionary thing, so yeah people will also pull shit out of their own ass regarding asoiaf
Just look at all the characters that have fake names and are not who they say or they are. George R.R. Martin does this to his characters
Ugh all the Lemore theories seem to be A) suppose [either Ashara or Tyene's mom] didn't match what we should expect from her physical description at all, or B) suppose [some other pretty minor female character] had a baby and something happened to the baby. Still, Lemore's identity is framed as a mystery, so i think she's gotta be somebody:
"He had sniffed out the truth beneath the dyed blue hair of Griff and Young Griff easily enough, and Yandry and Ysilla seemed to be no more than they claimed to be, whilst Duck was somewhat less. Lemore, though … Who is she, really? Why is she here? Not for gold, I'd judge. What is this prince to her? Was she ever a true septa?" (Tyrion VI ADwD)
As I said, I just think Tyrion is horny and overthinking, bc obviously he's in a very weird situation. She's a lady so she knows people back in westeros, simple enough.
idk sometimes the hot naked lady is just a hot lady that we happen to see naked. Seems in the moment the most important person in our lives, and in that moment she probably is - and larger than life itself one could say - but some years later only the color of the eyes and her cup size remains in our memory. A beautiful, haunting and magical day that is; and yet maybe we never get to see her again. As a masterful wordsmith, great man and poet once said: 'thank the Gods for Bessie, and her tits'
but yep I don't think she's Ashara or someone that big. If hiding eye colors relatively easily was a thing, we'd have at least a couple of characters referencing that. So she COULD be a Faceless Man but in that case all bets are off I guess, and she might as well be Syrio Forel
Oh yeah, I agree if Ashara is someone, I am gonna go with Jeyne, but the possibility of being actually a random Septa is huge and the same goes for all the FM theories at least imo. She is way too minor of a character she doesn't have any setup apart from JC thinking "Oh she has her own struggles", which let's be honest who doesn't? 😂
@@CompanyOfTheCat even the minor characters are so colorful that every baker gets an Azor Ahai and/or FM angle, although 'having their own struggles' is one of the broadest descriptions ever given of the baseline human condition 😂 idk, always thought her role was cool enough by itself - a lady of the cloth teaching about the Faith to the wandering court of exiles (I like 'travelling scholar' characters very much) - but if she has a little more backstory as Jeyne, even better, really.
❤❤
i know I'm a guy but i really like your videos
[vine oof sound]
She's not Mallora - Mallora is a vision crazed magician in a tower using magic to defend her city. Lemore is a church lady - one that wants a revolution, but I know some of those!
I don't think she's Ashara Dayne, but I also never got why Ashara would have to go into hiding if she married Howland Reed. He's some kind of nobility, it's not like marrying him would be any more scandalous for her family than having a child out of wedlock and jumping off a cliff. And I don't see anyone traipsing into the marshes to go find her if the Crannogmen don't want her being found.
Have you seen the playlist from In Deep Geek? If not I wholeheartedly recommend, it is the only theory of Ashara I have heard that makes sense, because it explains the events from the point Ned reached Dorne and after, because every other theory that I am familiar with doesn't explain the stance of Daynes towards Ned.
From the info we get, the Daynes were involved and probably knew about Jon, hiding Ashara might have been crucial depending on what she knew. Also, I haven't seen many people mention this, but Ashara I think would be a good way to explain Valyrian traits in case Jon had them, especially the eyes which aren't always clear on babies.
@@CompanyOfTheCat wasn't Jon already like a year old by the time Ned returned from the south though? I can't remember much of the timeline.
Tbh if Ashara hadn't been brought up by Barry I would have just assumed she was dead, even now I feel like she's a red herring.
GRRM has said that Jon is younger than Robb and was conceived indeed after the war started and Ned married Cat, he was some months old when the stuff in Dorne took place, and we were even told that he still needed a wetnurse to breastfeed.
For me, if IDG is not correct, I think she is not alive, that being said the suicide scenario doesn't make sense with how high the Daynes think and speak of Ned. He killed Arthur and Ashara died bc of him and the Daynes said "You know what I never liked these two thanks Ned, I will name my heir after you"? Something is off, we are missing information and this is why most Ashara theories are kinda random I think.
Honestly, I think the Ashara=Lemore theory comes from the redditors wanting to have classical fantasy stories or classical fairy tale logic. Jon Connington is a Targaryen loyalist who is in love with Rhaegar. Ashara was Elia's only named lady in waiting and fans see her as being close to her (and she's the only person that we know was close to Elia whose whereabouts are a question mark if we accept the theory that she's not dead). It's basically wanting to have a mother figure for fake!Aegon who was close to her mother.
Basically, the fandom thinks this is fake!Aegon's story, NOT Jon Connington's (which it is, it's his story of trying to chase after ghosts and being fooled because of it).
I’m just gonna say this: I think the faith of the seven is the faith of old valyria, the 14 flames were the gods they worshipped And were all couples, sister-wives And brother-husbands to eachother as it follows:
Balerion-Vhagar
Caraxes-Meraxes
Arrax-Onyxa
Vermax-Tessarion
Morghul-Meleys
Tyraxes-Syrax
Terrax-Shrykos
If each couple produced one son/daughter we have 7 heirs of old valyria religion:
Warrior
Father
Mother
Smith
Crone
Stranger
Maiden.
What I don’t understand is the reason why melisandre And the faith of R’hllor in general can’t wait to burn the 7 idols whenever they get the chance. Maybe as you said the faith of R’hllor And the faith of the drowned god (submarine volcano that needs blood sacrifices to mantain its flame alive) are the same religion practiced by either exiled Valyrians or Valyrian who escaped/predicted the doom.
Ok, or I said that my next video is about The Faith and I forgot about it, or you are a seer, which one is it?👀
@@CompanyOfTheCat Unfortunately I’m no greenseer so I would opt for option n1 I have to say though that I didn’t finish this video yet (I know I know capital sin) But I promise I will watch them all, please keep up the great work cause you helped me realize many things about asoiaf
1. Danaerys is Ashara’s daughter, the product of rape by Aerys II at Harrenhal. It happened during the hunt for the Knight of the Laughing Tree that took the Kingsguard away.
2. Ashara left with Ned for the Eyrie after Harrenhal Tourney. Barristan Selmy knew all about it, but was sworn to the king and his secrets.
3. Ned kept Ashara secret from Robert, but hid her somewhere in the Vale. Ashara left the Eyrie with Ned and was the “fisherman’s daughter” who knew how to navigate a boat from the rivers of the Vale to Sisterton. Ned gave her money there to secure passage home to Starfall.
4. Ned learned about Lyanna at the Tower of Joy from Oberyn leading the Dornish armies south after the Sack of KL. Ned told Oberyn about Elia and her kids, so Oberyn reciprocated by telling him about Lyanna.
5. Oberyn helped Ned lift the siege and secure the Redwyne Fleet off the coast of Storm’s End, which was later present to rescue Ashara after she dove into the Torrentine.
6. Ned took her baby and delivered her to Oberyn, who smuggled her to Braavos at the Sea Lord’s palace. He claimed the baby was Danaerys to secure the betrothal of Viserys with Arianne.
7. Ashara escaped to Essos in the Sept Beyond the Sea.
I believe she is Jon's wetnurse, "Wylla" of House Dane.
Whyla was only a wetnurse though for House Dayne if I am not wrong she was not a highborn and we see her as "Lady" in JonCon's mind.
It doesn’t make total sense but my head cannon is that she’s Tysha, just cause it’s poetically fucked up.
im sorry you are wrong. lemore is ashara.
I guess we will have to wait 😂
@@CompanyOfTheCat about 20 years
With Malora, I don't think she is mad, or has visions, or any of that - Leyton Hightower can fulfill that role. I think she got pregnant out of wedlock 10ish years ago, and went to Essos to have the baby in secret. (no clue what happened to the baby) There's no proof of this, but we're speculating a ton with every Lemore theory. The "she's mad in a tower" thing is just a cover story, something that would be seen as plausible given that her father's been locked in his tower for 10ish years, and would hide the fact that Lord hightower's eldest daughter had a kid out of wedlock.
Varys and Illyrio would have motive to recruit her, as the Hightowers are super powerful and have a reputation for staying neutral. the varys master plan seems to involve other factions tearing each other apart, then swooping in afterwards to take over. the hightower forces would still be fresh after the carnage, so its important to have them on your side (euron screws up this plan).
As for what purpose Malora could serve as Lemore, the possibilities are endless - its kinda hard to speculate cuz i don't know what GRRM has in store for the hightowers or for euron. She could get Aegon to go support the Hightowers against Euron, which could make Aegon super popular with the smallfolk for saving the realm (and thus make dany super unpopular when she arrives and fights him), or that could lead Dany to stupidly ally with Euron "the-enemy-of-my-enemy" thing. If Euron takes over oldtown and slaughters the Hightowers, Malora could have a role as a surviving claimant, leading to another wave of fighting? Aegon's cause has a lot of exiles who feel entitled to land in the Reach, so their interactions with people who haven't been exiled for generations (people like the hightowers who now probably hold land once held by the ancestors of these exiles) could be really interesting?
As someone whose from oldtown, but not in oldtown, she could give a lot of insight about what's up with the hightowers to break up the info dumps in the Sam chapters. that way the reader knows more than the characters. Similar to how in A Game of Thrones, none of the PoVs know that Varys and Illyrio are working together, but the reader does as the info is there but split between Dany, Arya and Ned.
Ultimately, I don't think there's great evidence for Malora=Lemore, but I think it is the strongest candidate?
Idk, there is no evidence and we will need A LOT of explanation, bc there is much contradicting information. Also, Malora has the reputation of Mad, not Layton exactly, so if someone has dreams I am gonna bet on Malora. Plus there are some parallels with Troy, and Malora would play the role of Cassandra.
I dont beleive jayne would be that helful in taking over the storm lands shes a high born lady not a battle commander. I think you put waaaaay too much weight on tyrion not noticing if her eyes were purple. Tyrion literally didnt notice young griffs eye colour unil he had figured out who he was meaning he thought they were blue at first. And before you say he comments on the way she gazes at him, that means nothing expression is shown in the shaoe of the eyebrow, the cheekbones and lips. Noticing someones expression in no way means you were looking into someones eyeballs to see what colour they are. Not that he could do if he wanted to tyrion is around 4 ft tall. He is no where near eye level and im 6 ft 3 and dont notice eye colour immediately. You talk about tyrion knowing YGs eye colour but not noticing lemore but fail to mention that that just proves he didnt notice the eye colour straught away like you claim. It took a load of detective work to pay so much attention. And why does he never mention Shaes eye colour? I think most people try to disprove her being ashara because it strongly supports N+A=j far more than 'promice me ned'supports R+L=J even though there is FAAAAR moe evidence supporting the former. Also the glamour talk is completely unnecessary she was a maid for the princess not a witch. To say just make her wear a veal is a weak argument aslo. She is posing as a septa not actually being one! Lemore being anyone but ashara is flimsy at vest the are described the same way by many charecters. What does this add to the story you ask? Maybe it gives us a reason that ashara had to swap jon with rheagar and lyannas boy griff. Tell me griff doesnt look more like the son of rheagar than jon.....😂 its baffles me how so many people are completley sold on R+l=J when it does NOTHING for the story what so ever.
The Ashara=Lemore doesn’t prove, at all, the NAJ, like at all. Because with the same logic, I can say that A=L proves that Ashara is Dany’s mother. A Lemore and Jon meeting is also HIGHLY unlikely considering what is going on in the south, the weather, and what is going on up North. Tyrion says all the time I saw her do this, remove her from her eyes, observing everything, because when she isn’t naked she is covered head to toe, describing her with the exact opposite words Ashara is described by most people in the novels.
Lemore: She was past forty, more handsome than pretty, but still easy on the eye.
Ashara: And they told how afterward Ned had carried Ser Arthur's sword back to the beautiful young sister who awaited him in a castle called Starfall on the shores of the Summer Sea. The Lady Ashara Dayne, tall and fair, with haunting violet eyes.
His choice would have been a young maiden not long at court, one of Elia's companions … though compared to Ashara Dayne, the Dornish princess was a kitchen drab.
Even after all these years, Ser Barristan could still recall Ashara's smile, the sound of her laughter. He had only to close his eyes to see her, with her long dark hair tumbling about her shoulders and those haunting purple eyes. Daenerys has the same eyes.
Ashara was not easy on the eye and she is also not a decade older than Ned.
Also, he never saw her eye to eye, while traveling for days they were both all the time standing? He didn’t see Aegon’s eyes immediately because of the hair color, and because of the hat, the moment the light was correct he commented on it, Lemore wears white all the time, there is no camouflage. He also comments on JonCon’s color, are these people shorter than Lemore? The height really doesn’t explain anything. After he caught Aegon’s eye color he would have noticed the Septas too when eating or something while all sitting, but he doesn’t and if we agree that he didn’t then we agree that Tyrion is suddenly dumb because Ashara’s eyes are amethyst/violet, not bluish purple that under certain light and colors could look blue. JonCon's are a very light striking baby blue and YG are indigo, both noticeable, Lemore's eyes are most likely not that remarkable, simple as that.
And I am gonna leave the ANJ questions here because again these things do not make sense:
1. Jon Snow is known to have been conceived during Robert's Rebellion (according to grrm himself), and Eddard and Ashara do not seem to have been in each other's vicinity at the time of conception. Maybe they could meet somewhere, but still big if from what we know about both of them, they were not very close. Plus, Barristan Selmy recalls that Ashara was "dishonored" at the tourney at Harrenhal, which is clearly not the case for Jon. If he was conceived at Harrenhall he would be 1+ years old. He would walk, he would say words, and he would have teeth, the teeth is something that people often dismiss in these theories but a three-month-old with a 5 has a big difference in teeth. Cat wouldn’t believe that the baby was younger than Robb when Ned brought him home. We know that Jon is younger than Robb because they could pass him as a baby as younger, even if he was born earlier, still doesn’t make sense. Babies have HUGE differences from week to week especially when they are that young if a baby was 5 months instead of 3-4 the difference is BIG, wet nurses would notice, Cat would notice, and people especially at that time were very close to children all the time, they would see that the kid is not the right age. Actually, babies are way easier to tell if you are familiar with them like all wet nurses and maesters were than let’s say kids, teens, and adults. To say that people were ignorant in this department is definitely not true. Have you seen older ladies with babies? Most of them can pinpoint months very easily and not because they are experts at biology, but because many of them had more siblings and kids and grandchildren, people were not ignorants. So yeah, Jon should have been VERY close in age with Robb, probably younger, since Ned said he was conceived AFTER his wedding. Even with the “I am not that strong at math” GRRM said when a fan corrected him, still it didn’t fix the issues.
2. If Ashara is Jon's mother, Eddard would have no reason to take the child from its mother, nor keep her identity a secret from everyone, including Jon. Fr there is no reason for such furtivety for something like that. This is a question that people never answer in any other theory, but Ned doesn’t have a reason to not say anything to anyone, Jon, Cat, Robert, and so on if his mom was Ashara, Wylla o whoever else.
3. At Starfall, despite the belief that Ashara and Eddard had been in love, Ashara is NOT believed to be Jon's mother.
4.If Eddard had fathered a bastard on Ashara and taken her child away from her, causing her suicide, why did the Daynes name their heir after him?
5. Cat mentioned her because people in Winterfell said the name and she heard. Servants and household members who were at the tourney knew that these two at Harrenhal had a fling most likely, so of course they would say her name, but servants and common people talk and spread gossip and rumors all the time, so it doesn’t really mean anything. In Winterfell servants were saying it was Ashara, bc they knew the Harrenhal events, as we saw in Arya chapters, in the three sisters, they say it was a fisherman's daughter, the Daynes say it was Wyla, meaning that everyone says the rumor they have heard. As for the I thought Rhaegar for the first time in years I deeply believe is a GRRM mistake or it means he thought of him extensively and his character, because Ned speaks of Rhaegar in earlier chapters, and thinks about Rhaegar in the chapter before the claim "for the first time in years" is made.
6. Ned thinks of Rhaegar way more than Ashara, bc he actually never thinks of her, which I find way more curious than not thinking of Rhaegar (which wasn't even true).
7. Why is Jon connected to blue roses meaning Lyanna’s flower and not maybe purple, stars, or dawn or something? In the context of the series the RLJ came out of nowhere because they were removing all the foreshadowing, but in the books, there are many hints, since book 1.
8. If indeed Ashara is Jon’s mom at least to me seems like a very poorly crafted story, because all these are big issues that affect the character’s personalities. If Ned took Jon instead of leaving him at Dorne then we have to recontextualize his whole character, because this is almost cruel. Jon would have a MUCH better life at Dorne. Bastards are way more accepted with a better position. People were correct about Ned not being honorable and cheating on Cat since he said that he was conceived after his wedding, he was cruel because he deprived Jon of a better life and strained his wedding for no reason at all. Because all these are not noble are selfish. So, was Cersei correct about Ned, and was he just another Robert?
Plus, Jane doesn’t need to know strategy, her house seat needs to know and the gates, simple as that.
I am not gonna continue this because it’s obvious that we are moving in circles since we do not agree😂. Let’s just wait for winds and George.
@CompanyOfTheCat it doesn't prove N+A you are right but it does fit the theory. Ashara being Danny's mom doesn't fit though otherwise where did she get her valerian hair and dragon riding/birthing abilities. Barrestan thinking a pretty high born girl with purple eyes looks like another pretty high born girl with purple eyes it's more about the eye colour than anything. Unless now it's R+ A =D? Now I'm actually all for dany being the daughter of rheagar and lyanna that makes allot of sense and explains the lemon tree and the red door situation.she is actually described as very easy on the eye. The word hansom is used which if you look at the definition is a very flattering compliment you also seem to forget she is not a young woman anymore you also conveniently didnt mention how tyrion describes her hair as flowing loose around her shoulders an incredibly similar description to barristans long dark hair tumbling about her shoulders 👀 a Cersei is d escribed as much more human looking after with stretch marks and sagging skin by Kevin Lanister on her walk of shame after being described as beautiful before. This is a human woman before the time of eyelashes,ghds and makeup. Why would she look the same 20 years later? Do you think she is immortal?
@@Aaronhoulston Still not answering the rest of my answers tho😂
I don't believe that Dany is Ashara's but even she has more proof than Naj.
I am I'm sorry UA-cam keeps crashing please have a read in say 45 minutes after I have got there. And I know I must be annoying you I'm genuinely sorry I'm just very passionate about this. I respect you and your content and am enjoying this so yeah please give me a little time I have an answer to every point 🙏 thanks and sorry again 😊
Now about the ages not matching. THEY DO MATCH! lol ned is the same age as ashara. He's in his mid 30s in the first book. It's easily been 5 years by the time tyrion meets lemore in dance. So that would make her 40. Ok he says over 40 🤷♂️ but people age at different speeds and tyrions opinion isn't fact so a 40 year old being seen as over 40 isn't a big deal it's easy to be out 3 years when guessing someone's age so I don't think that the ages are off at all
she is very likely Ashara dayne
Nah, pretty much what Mj said in another comment here.
"Yeah I don't get why people say she's Ashara. The big problem with that theory is that a few small tweaks from GRRM could've made it work great, but he didn't do that."
So, I'm gonna agree with them, the possibility is close to 0 if not 0.
@@NotAnotherAccount735 Nah, safe to say Ashara didnt miscarry a girl but birthed a healthy boy. She and Ned did a baby swap (something George has hinted at plenty of times) Ned Goes North with Jon, Ashara goes East with Lyanna and Rhegars son.
@@johnmitchell4043besides Jon doing a baby swap when does George hint at this?
Ahh! I was waiting for this one after you gave me the rundown on it the other day 🧊🔥
Also...there's a Darkstar = Rhaegar theory?? Wtf thats so wack 😂
Darkstar is Rhaeghar, who is Arthur, who is Mance who is the granddaughter of Palpatine.
@@CompanyOfTheCat they were switched at birth!
Your theories are completely wrong but nice video.
I mean...we will have to wait to see this 😂