The real biggest problem with the iron hands is that their models are never as robotic as the illustrations, thanks to gw's refusal to make leg and torso upgrade bits
I love how Manus is when he gifts Lorgar his mace "I owe you, so I made this, take it and the debt is paid. Now get out of my forge because I don't like you and you know it"
@ninFree Lorgar is top tier though. Even though he only got his balls when he told his adoptive father to gtfo at Istvaan v. He became such a mad lad that once he even had Angron sweating. edit: inb4, source - "Legacies of Betrayal: The Butcher's Nails"
@oantunes998 ... and then spent 10,000 years quaking in his little booties, hiding in his tower, hoping that his Emo brother didn't show up tap-tap-tapping, at his chamber door.
@@Robert-wf7xu Lorgar. The only primarch to make the worlds he conquered into bastions that would never fall to chaos and would be loyal to bigE for 40k years. His pride and joy was shattered over this. He is used and led astray by his adopted father, who takes advantage of the trauma inflicted on him. When the shit hits the fan he becomes his own man and tells him to gtfo of his way. Among the primarchs he's 2nd only to Magnus in psykic might, gaslighted by Kor Phaeron into eschewing their use. When he finally begins to harness his powers he's able to 1v1 a warhound titan and save his brother Angron. He has the right idea about the warp but is sabotaged by big E. Even turned traitor his word is keeping the flame of mankind burning. There's as much character in Lorgar as in all other primarchs combined
And the other Primarchs talk about how amazing Ferus was, but the only thing we really see of him is his bromance with Ferus and getting too aggressive and running off to his death on Istvan.
@jo_ken Right. Dude has no feats in universe. He wasn't even supposed to be the angry one but the stoic guy trying to be tough on the outside not berserko rage mode. How could Horus say he'd have been a great Warmaster when he basically oofed himself trying to prove a point
Iron hands are the most neglected first founding chapter. I'll admit that even though I want my Ravens to get more spotlight. I wouldn't mind seeing the sons of Farris get their time to shine.
to be fair it's not like what's written for the Ravens is good. Case in point: the only reason Corax didn't get mauled by Angron in Istvaan 5 is that some random guard commander saw him getting wrecked in a dream and practically forced the marines housekeeping Deliverance to go save dad.
Once upon a time, the Iron Hands had their own supplement book back when supplement books weren’t a thing. The Clan Raukaan book for 6e/7e (probably misspelled it). It’s where Chapter Master Smashmouth’s relics come from.
They bassicaly did it in his primarch novel, but it still was presented from emperors children view. I dont know why the fuck they are refusing to write from his prespective.
I think Manus his early death in the series is also due to the fact that at the time fulgrim came out nobody was expecting the series to contain 54 books.
I like you idea, splitting Fulgrim into two books would have just helped that book not feel as packed as it was and giving Ferris some pov leading to the Drop-site Massacre. It would have been nice if we could had a real established relationship with the Iron Hands before Massacre. Ferris and the Morlocks?(audiobook person my spelling is off sometimes) dying off W keying to Fulgrim could have hit harder if we had more of a reason to care. All and all it’s fine it didn’t ruin the series it just could have really been a fucker of a gut punch in there was more set up time.
9:20 here's the thing we have a series like this, it follows Kardan Stronos from the point that he was a sergeant and to his eventual ascention to warleader. The books are The Eye of Medusa and The Voice of Mars we were supposed to receive a third book called The Sapphire King to finish the trilogy. It's been six years since the release of the second book and no sight of the third. It's a really good duology that explores the psyche of the chapter and how the marines deal with the "Flesh is weak" mentality, plus alot of guns, dreadnoughts and technology that would be considered tech heresy by the imperium but we are the favorite boys of mechanicus so its all good.
Hey, uh, we Iron Hands already have this book series: currently a duology, consisting of The Eye of Medusa and Voice of Mars, with a preceding audiodrama, the Calculus of Battle, featuring our current Chapter Master Elect, Kardan Stronos during his "earlier" years. "Why haven't I heard of those books", you ask? Because they're ... not good, because the author Guymer appearantely does not like to write about Iron Hands, ending the Voice of Mars at a sort of cliff hanger and has since then refused to complete the series, so bully for us lmfao.
Honestly, just make an 18 book long series based entirely off of the great crusade. That way we can explore those relations between primarch and legion, and delve deeper into the traditions of all the legions. Would also just be neat to see the crusade fleshed out more.
So kind of a Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns situation where both books cover the same major events but the points of view and paths to get there are different for Horus Heresy. Edit: A Iron Hands version of Brothers of the Snake sounds fun.
If you haven’t read it yet “damnation of pythos” its a good book and really approaches the duality of the iron hands doctrine with marines on both sides of the argument after isstvan and his death. Also “deeds endure” short story in “shattered legions” is a good source of character building for the sons of ferrus. Great video!
Now you say it, it’s crazy how much is crammed into the fulgrim novel, especially when you consider the vast extent of the heresy novels and that sweet fa of any great significance occurs in comparison in many of them.
I'd definitely like more iron hands stuff. To be honest though part of what I love about them is how messed up they are. I'm not sure I'd want to see them fixed.
The best Iron Hand story I ever listened to was a fan-made story by Noman about a single Iron hand marine. I really think we need a official story about an iron hand marine.
I just finished reading "The Emperor's Finest" and it's interesting that The Reclaimers aren't more of a thing. They seem very Iron Hand-like considering how closely they work the Adeptus Mechcanicus.
The one thing that irks me about Ferrus Manus dying is the inconsistency, particularly when other Primarchs or other main characters have THE THICKEST plot armor. Imagine a Game of Thrones where Eddard Stark dies in the first season and then nobody else bites the dust for the entirety of the show.
Thanks for making Iron Hands content that im actually drawn to watch. By the way, awesome podcast with the boys at lorecrimes! AVE DOMINUS NOX, brother!
I love Iron Hands i just wish they remade their identity as the superior support units that more or less gave up mentally but not physical or spiritual
Some of that is due to GW kinda lore-ing themselves into a corner. Ferrus Manus was basically introduced specifically to get killed first as the big underpin to the entire Isstvan 5 thing. Everything else about him had to be written in reverse.
I had to make a homebrew chapter called the iron cowboys to play with my uncle. Let him look at which chapters there were see any he liked, he told me he liked the iron hands since they had an underdog kind of name.
Iron hands aren't even the favorite of chapters/ legions who's name starts with Iron! I don't think I've met a single person who's like "Man I think Iron hands are the best"
Here's a crazy what if: Clonegrim escapes and becomes the new Primarch of the Iron Hands. He gets a buzz cut, maybe chops off a hand, gets a robot replacement. And he tells his sad Iron Boys that if they ever see a hint of Chaos in him that they should take him out. And the look on Snaky Fulgrim's face when they finally meet!! All you have to do is tell Trazyn your plan and tell him he gets front seats to it and first pick at the loot, so long as he sets Clonegrim free. Also, the Night Lords are garbage people.
Well, Arthur, you're officially being listed on the Lexicanum as a 40k content creator. Love the channel, and hope you keep going for a long, long time. _Edit: As an aside - Ferris does have more stories scattered through the Heresy series. Such as a 4hr story (assuming audio book), that focuses only on Ferris and his Legion, in the novel The Primarchs. Ferris DOES need more content, a novel about Ferris is in the works that takes place before the Heresy, but many who say he only is in one book haven't even made it halfway through the series._
Second biggest problem. The biggest problem is that they named the Primarch Ferris Manus. Seriously Ferris Manus. That’s like calling Guilliman Utrus Marinus
There is the Shattered legions stuff that is mostly Iron Hands-centric. But yeah, there wa sa lot of narrative potential there (even if it was only to fore shadow the effects the death of Sanginius would have on the Blood Angels) that had been missed. I do recomend teh SHattered legions stories (mostly shorts and audios), as it does (in places) look at the efffects that Ferrus had on teh legion - those who thought he was on to something and those that saw his death as the justifercation of why he was wrong in his beliefs. It does get wierdly dark in places (won't go into that, but it is interesting). 40k Iron Hands novels could develope this (if I recall, one of thier named characters has threads in this direction). And as the 40k lore enthusiast I am, I would read the shit out of it. Especially the stuff around the eventual formation of the Sons of Medusa - as that was down to a another idealogical split in the chapter.
The strange thing is, Iron Hands and their successors provide an amazing set of stories due to their nature. Are they susceptible to falling to Slaanesh? They have a drive for perfection but it is at the expense of perfecting themselves instead simply ahortxutting it with technology? Are there Iron Hands who regret their situation? How do some feel when there’s that tiny part of the brain still kicking there questioning if they’ve lost their humanity? How can they do the emperor’s work if they are no longer what the emperor created? GW is just scared/lazy/doesn’t care enough to write about them. They prefer to flanderise the setting with haha DA traitor, BA vampire, Krieg Shovel memes. It’s also depressing how little they have of Ferrus leading up to his death. You know how a good writer would handle Ferrus? Build him up to be a really loved character; make people wonder if he truly will die? “How could GW get rid of such a loved character? Perhaps the rumours of HH were wrong and Ferrus survives? He such a compelling character - surely they won’t actually kill him?” I have come to really love the Orphans of War and Istvaan Survivors. They were the true heroes of the HH doing more against the traitors in the long game than any other factions. IH and their successors are great posits of the question of “can humanity achieve a peak through training and genetics alone? Do we need to augment ourselves? And if we can augment ourselves, is it even worth training?” Rant over. But Mr Bones, you truly created a passionate burst for me.
I think it’s that’s nothing really changes in 40K. Even with Primarchs returning and primaris coming around, it feels like very little still changes. They should have the balls to do something wild that really shakes up the setting. Here’s an idea: The Iron Hands despise Raven Guard and Salamanders for retreating at the drop site, and have even attacked said chapters covertly for this. Take it to the next level. Have the Iron Hands betray the Raven Guard in a campaign they’re both on. Full on betrayal, that they see as justice. The Raven Guard flee and this begins a war between the two chapters. Being first founding this is huge news across the Imperium. Raven Guard and Iron Hands successors go to aid their ancestral namesake. An Astartes vs Astartes war begins in the heart of the imperium, thousand per side. Maybe the final campaign is at Medusa or Deliverance. Maybe Guilliman steps in, trying to calm things down, but gets shot down by Iron Hands who see him as weak, undeserving, and spoiled. Ultramarines are suddenly in the war. Medusa is besieged and destroyed. The Iron Hands and their loyal successors flee, they find an ally in the Mechanicus who take up arms in their defense. Suddenly it’s a stalemate again, and this time the Iron Hands have the backing of the Mechanicum. Guilliman has to back down. The Iron Hands build up a new system where they rule over humans and mechanicum allies. They reform the legion (maybe new or updated colour scheme). Suddenly it’s like 30,000 Iron Hands in one spot that are on the verge of being rogue. Several dozen Astartes chapters blockade the system in fear of betrayal, taking away vital resources from the Imperium. The Tau empire expands further, Ork waaaghs are able to push deeper into the Imperium. Suddenly there’s a Cold War. Huge lore for the Iron Hands, Raven Guard, hell maybe even Guilliman is injured and loses an arm or something, maybe he feels like he let down Ferrus and the Iron Hands and now has an iron hand himself. Suddenly the entire setting becomes more wild and interesting.
Ok I got a premise that will make arthur soyface. Have the Iron Hands discover an ancestor core on a world close to the galactic center. It has obviously been abandoned because it has overloaded and is a bit senile from being filled with so much ancient squat wisdom. They basically talk with it and learn that it contains the personality and memories of ancient ancestors from the past. "Umm does this include Ferrus Manus?" "Was he significant enough to be remembered?" "Of course!" "Then of course!" So they question it more if IT has the personality and memories of Ferrus Manus, it seems unsure and it might have it in another one of it's ancestor cores. So they start raiding leagues of votann worlds to obtain their ancestor cores and combine them together. Meanwhile the core is trying to gleam information trying to find out who this Ferrus Manus guy was and trying to rebuild his personality, getting better and better at it as it gains more computing power. What this does 1. Gives a grimdark plotline about the Iron Hands wanting their long dead father back so much they are willing to make a new enemy and commit possible tech heresy to ressurect a facsimile of him. 2. Gives the Leagues a reason to start fighting in the setting and stop sitting their like "I sure hope the imperium doesn't start caring about us today!" 3. Makes the Mechanicum learn about the cores and having to balance the three competeing outlooks they could have: Nearly complete STCs have been discovered and must be taken. There is possible abominable intelligence ruling an entire civilization of abhumans. That it is probably a bad idea to make the Iron Hands learn what these things really are, so they need to both aquire the STCs without actually taking them from the Iron Hands.
I’d like Ferus Manus to return next with like a kinda Lion vibe. SPOILERS I think he has change after his appearance in the end and the death vol 2 he seems to have had a bit of learning in death and it’d be cool to see Ferus come back and try to humanize his legion of basically cyborgs.
There’s 2 issues for me when it comes to the Iron Hands and they’re both more to do with the game and the hobby than the lore. In 8th edition and late 9th edition they were really powerful and really boring gun line armies. So if someone said they were playing Iron Hands it always felt like they wanted to play the strongest but least interesting version of marine possible. I found this was reinforced by their paint scheme being easy to apply very quickly, base coat black and dry brush silver and you’ve got a passable Iron Hands army. Maybe apply a few decals if you can be bothered.
The last thing we need is more Horus heresy novels. I disagree fulgrim should be divided and expanded. I wish we had more iron hands too but what’s done is done
I think the Iron Hands are super bland, but I think that has a lot to do with the color scheme of their models mixed with the fact that they're really not robotic like they are in the lore. They look like their models are not much different from Ravenguard or Black Templars, though they're not as cosmetically distinct as either of them unless you kitbash the hell out of them. The Iron Hands just end up feeling kinda flat and uninspired. At least I can say that the Ravenguard have the whole emo thing going on, even if I'm not a huge fan of them.
i want more iron hands lore as much as i want some tau lore not written by phil kelly. regardless of stance on the tau hate bandwagon, it doesnt help that one bad writer seems to be the only one who gets to write for a whole xenos, aside from books not from their perspective. but like you said gw has a thing against giving people what they want, so in some perverse way phil kelly being the only tau writed is cemented by how vilified he is amongst readers. Then when Iron Hands get lore, and Tau get at least a mid writer, they need to have a buddy cop series. doesnt make any sense, but hey novelty.
I had a dream a few nights ago that the Iron Hands suddenly became GW’s focused chapter (temporarily) because of something happening in the narrative of 40k involving Vashtorr and the Dark Mechanicum. This began with them getting a new named character, which was a named Dreadnought like Carab Cullen or Bjorn the Fell Handed. It was a Deredeo Dreadnought based loosely on the Heresy model, but it had various Iron Hands bits and more ornate armor. I can even tell you its color scheme, wargear, and how its packaging looked.
I think it's funny the most recent Iron Hands-ish story I've read was by complete accident while reading Peter Fehervari's Dark Coil series. In it the Tau were rummaging through an abandoned Inquisition research facility and encounter man-made horrors along with a squad of dead Deathwatch marines sent to deal with them, except for one who was an Iron Hand that despite being basically mummified was still alive thanks to all his augments and willing to help the Tau kill the horrors out of sheer pragmatism in getting the job done. Even though he was literally in it for like only 5 paragraphs seeing them do shit like that tells me you can write a compelling story with them, all that matters is actually writing them in the first place instead of leaving them to collect dust in the attic basically.
(Early) They lost their primarch, equarry (Gabriel Santor), Elites (Morlocks and most of Avernii), clan council and a lot of the stuff written after is mostly them losing battles or suiciding to win. Autek Mor and Shadrak Meduson breathed life into the Legion with them unceremoniously ending Meduson in the books and not writing further about Autek. They’re written as either one dimensional irrational idiots or robot wannabes. There’s a stretch of ways they could be written like calculating + vengeful like Autek or they could lean into the IH zombie/resurrection tech that they extensively have (read Riven, great short story) but instead of marines they’re written like idiots most of the time. I get there’s something to be said of losing their primarch, questioning all they know and so forth but it can still be managed properly as at the end of the day marines are still highly trained, long lived (usually) killing machines.
Their biggest problem is that despite their big, good, strong hands, they couldn't hold on to their friends as the Nothing pulled them right out of their hands.
While the IH didn't get much love during the Heresy era, I still reccomend the Sisypheum stories to everyone remotely interested in the Iron Xth. Its an endearing adventure that builds up to a sad conclusion thats pivotal to the modern settings' status quo.
Bruh they keep fucking over the iron hands like shadrack Meduson legit an iron hands captain got all the survivors of Istvan and led a massive guerrilla campaign even hitting primarchs
And then To kill him Black library has him strung up, abandoned by all his allies, and taunted by a dude we hadn’t seem much of up to this point. And he dies like a bitch. Black library did him so fucking dirty.
Spoilers but The same thing happens to another Iron Hands character named Rauth, a Scout Marine. Dude is a deuteragonist alogn with Kardan Stronos. He gets his head blown off by the oldest Iron Hand, forget his name, while getting btiched. Dude was in 2 books just to die for no reason.
Lemme tell you what the problem is and was. Nick Kyme. The dude was a bigshot when the Horus Heresy started (chief editor i think) and is the perfect representation of Grimdork (taking the grimdark concept too fucking far) . The man was in charge when IH got kneecapped , heck he even killed Meduson himself. The Salamanders nearly escaped his grimdorkiness , i heard their book series has some serious chores written by him. I dont think he is still chief editor (otherwise Guilliman would have gotten assasinated and the Lion used in a fuckin ritual in todays 40k books) but the bastard is still kicking around. Heck , the new Dawn of Fire book where we are supposed to get first Votann characters is being written by him. I guess Uthar is gonna die then or be buried in an avalanche of monotonous boredom. First step to fixing IH lore is firing that man , cause i guarantee you , he will have enough clout to screw over any repair attempt.
As a big fan of iron hands I hope we see a return of a ghost Manus, maybe as a part of the legion of the damned. Maybe we can get some insight on his thoughts or something, like GW please...
It’s not really that simple. You’re not going to make money off something if you don’t invest in its development, and if GW never puts much stock in the Iron Hands to begin with, how are they supposed to make money? For all they know, Iron Hands could be one of the really popular legions if they just had more quality novels and art about them, if their conversion kits had more customization options, if they had more characters to field on the tabletop.
Ironically, the attachment that's essentially made for them is really popular but the common joke is "looks like you painted your iron hands the wrong color" because no one actually wants to play iron hands because they have no lore and the lore they do have. They're usually pretty evil or boring
If they don't invest in the Iron Hands, they won't be popular, and if they don't become populat they won't invest in them. It's a vicious cycle ya see?
I think in 40k the best way to address Ferrus is to add him as the leader of the Legion of the Damned. Iron hands fighting alongside vengeful, robotic killers from the warp would be super interesting and cool
9:32 oh no we do have one its called the “eye of medusa” and the “voice of mars” books...which at this point im 90% sure Gw have ended because its been 6 years since the 2nd book in whats meant to be a trilogy. its a book that follows a marine named Kardan stronos who is meant to go from sergeant, to iron father to chapter master but they end it off at the second book right before the big ending conflict is meant to happen
Love the iron hands, but I have driven myself to madness seething about the lack of everything for them from 40k models, stories, art to the point I just made my own successor chapter “The Iron Revenants”. Neat iron hands factoid: they practice techromancy I.e. they can resurrect their dead through the power of the keys of hel. And tldr they’re a chapter of zealous cyberzombies
When Fulgrim was published I don't think they knew how successful and how long the Horus Heresy series would be, because of that some of those early books can feel a bit rushed and Ferrus certainly sufers from that. Also, I think none of the loyalists at Istvan V get the same depth of character buildng as the other legions, Iron Hands being the worst when it comes to that. I alsi feel that if you want to go that transhuman route nowadays you would go Skitarii instead of Iron Hands, before the Skitari were playable they might have been the closest faction to the Mechanicus and the one with the strongest transhumanist vibe but they have been dethroned in both regards.
I am making a home brew chapter that starts in the heresy. A captain survives the istvaan massacre, joins back with his legion, then in m.35 founds his own chapter, dies, is replaced, that replacement dies, and is replaced, then that one dies, and is replaced in m.41. The interesting part being that they go against Ferrus Manass’ ideals of perfection, if not perfect, replace. They where the more human members of the chapter, and over the corse of each new chapter master their humanity becomes more and more cemented. And they push themselves farther, and farther away from the iron hands until they no long find themselves to be iron hands. However when that last chapter master died, it was because of nids, and so 1/6th of the chapter got entombed in dreadnoughts, and with the lack of resources, end up having to replace lost limbs with mechanical parts, and having to field a greater than average amount of techmarines, too. An Irony that is lost on them.
One thing that surprised me about Ferrus is that they never made him think about the biological determinism of being a Primarch. For a guy so self conscious about his strength and weakness, does the fact that he was born a demi-god among men make him feel insecure or like he was always fated to be like this, and that his strength was never his own?
Spoiler alert: the authors of Black Library are AT BEST a mixed bag. They have some genuinely talented writers, some decent authors, and a lot of trash. The HH series is actually a pretty good example. It is also an EXCELLENT example of what happens if you let dozens of people just do their own thing with a narrative (spoiler alert again: it does not work out well in the end).
Like you said it was necessary to kill off a primarch early to show the gravity of the war to come... I agree Ferrus should have had more spolight as well early... The issue is that even with weaker or annoying primarchs the Night Lords and the Death Guard have some compelling snd really cool characters ... The Iron Hands are absent of that along with their primarch being killed early...
Personally adore the Iron Hands. Still of course, you carry excellent points. I feel that they can pull their weight narratively. Highly recommend you all to read the short story of Flesh by Chris Wraight. In my opinion they can be a truly dark and poignant in an interesting way, exploring very horrendous aspects of humanity.
Dude you can’t bring up ferrus primarch book as an example of him getting character. The iron hands and their primarch are side character to the story of one random emperors children preator who single handedly beats down the best of the iron hands and saves their primarchs life. You actually see very little of ferrus manus in the book that carries his name. It is sad. Also you are right about the iron hands getting knee capped, but you don’t know the half of it. Not only does ferrus die but the iron hands command staff, along with every iron hands character introduces in ferrus’s primarch book dies. Some off screen or as minor blips in the broader story of the emperor children, often mocked in their dying moments. Then we get introduced to shadrak meduson, leader of the shattered legions, who pulls off some amazing feats, like orchestrating an assassination attempt on horus and in this mission they land a headshot on fulgrin that takes him out for a while. Meduson becomes a legitimate problem for horus to the point he sends a whole crusade hoast and one of his best generals to deal with him. How is he killed? The legions iron fathers betray meduson and run away, meduson gets strung up on horus aximunds flagship, taughted by aximund where be gets called stupid, and then beheaded after saying “i will never die”. It is genuinely a bullshit way to go and shows disrespect to the character. Imagine if Sigistmund got sent on a mission by dorn, and as sig is fighting it out dorn abandoned him there to die. It doesn’t feel like the iron hands abandoned their most competent leader, but black library killed him so they wouldn’t have to write about him. Oh and meduson shows up next as an alpha legion imposter, where the imposter says meduson died like a bitch. Just to rub it in. If you were an iron hands fan, I think you’d be bitter too.
It took me a bit to come around to them but I have a love for the iron hands. Ignoring the nod to Guts and Griffith that Fulgrim and Ferrus have that makes me like them out the gate, the hands are children that lost their father and are taking his teachings to the logical extreme. Dad was weak, dad was weak because he had feelings, dad's feelings caused hesitation, dad's hesitation caused him to die, we will remove weakness it is what dad would have wanted. There's great story of loss with them that resonates with alot of people. I see a comparison to the blood angels alot with them but it's subtly different imo. The blood angels adored sanguinious and mourned when he died. At that point there was less "shock" that a primarch could die. The hands were the first to lose their primarch outside of a sanction. They have never left that initial stage of shock. Tldr: the hands are neat and there's alot of subtext to them I feel
Proof that the blood angels are just being babys about it. The iron hands only went moderatly insane over it and the blood angels are still losing their shit
The real biggest problem with the iron hands is that their models are never as robotic as the illustrations, thanks to gw's refusal to make leg and torso upgrade bits
3d printers stay winning.
@@chimeraelite I wish mine still worked :(
@@knuckl6972”the machine is immortal”
Try prayer
If that fails to work consult a tech adept
Yeah that’s true I always forget that nice catch
The firstborn kit was decent. Shame none of those upgrade sprues are aroud!
I love how Manus is when he gifts Lorgar his mace
"I owe you, so I made this, take it and the debt is paid. Now get out of my forge because I don't like you and you know it"
To be fair it is lorgar
@ninFree Lorgar is top tier though.
Even though he only got his balls when he told his adoptive father to gtfo at Istvaan v. He became such a mad lad that once he even had Angron sweating.
edit: inb4, source - "Legacies of Betrayal: The Butcher's Nails"
@oantunes998
... and then spent 10,000 years quaking in his little booties, hiding in his tower, hoping that his Emo brother didn't show up tap-tap-tapping, at his chamber door.
@@marceloantunes998can you tell me more about Lorgar?
@@Robert-wf7xu Lorgar. The only primarch to make the worlds he conquered into bastions that would never fall to chaos and would be loyal to bigE for 40k years. His pride and joy was shattered over this.
He is used and led astray by his adopted father, who takes advantage of the trauma inflicted on him. When the shit hits the fan he becomes his own man and tells him to gtfo of his way.
Among the primarchs he's 2nd only to Magnus in psykic might, gaslighted by Kor Phaeron into eschewing their use. When he finally begins to harness his powers he's able to 1v1 a warhound titan and save his brother Angron.
He has the right idea about the warp but is sabotaged by big E. Even turned traitor his word is keeping the flame of mankind burning.
There's as much character in Lorgar as in all other primarchs combined
Not only does he get capped early, but his tropes are stepped on by other, surviving primarchs, so it's just the flesh is weak bit alone.
And the other Primarchs talk about how amazing Ferus was, but the only thing we really see of him is his bromance with Ferus and getting too aggressive and running off to his death on Istvan.
You mean Vulcan right?
@jo_ken Right. Dude has no feats in universe. He wasn't even supposed to be the angry one but the stoic guy trying to be tough on the outside not berserko rage mode. How could Horus say he'd have been a great Warmaster when he basically oofed himself trying to prove a point
He conquered slightly less than Horus. He's loaded with canonical feats that haven't been written in any of the books.
@jo_ken to be fair to him he did fight the emperor for 3 days straight leveling mountains in the process.
Iron hands are the most neglected first founding chapter. I'll admit that even though I want my Ravens to get more spotlight. I wouldn't mind seeing the sons of Farris get their time to shine.
Sucks for both of us then I really like both of them
to be fair it's not like what's written for the Ravens is good.
Case in point: the only reason Corax didn't get mauled by Angron in Istvaan 5 is that some random guard commander saw him getting wrecked in a dream and practically forced the marines housekeeping Deliverance to go save dad.
Once upon a time, the Iron Hands had their own supplement book back when supplement books weren’t a thing. The Clan Raukaan book for 6e/7e (probably misspelled it). It’s where Chapter Master Smashmouth’s relics come from.
1:11 “Why is there no artwork of this chapter!” Looks at quarter divided color scheme and points.
The easiest way to make a faction unpopular: Make them unpaintable
@@barlotardy Cough *White Scars* Cough
I think a chronicling of one of Ferus Manus' pre heresy campaigns would be an interesting book/series and flesh out the primarch.
They bassicaly did it in his primarch novel, but it still was presented from emperors children view. I dont know why the fuck they are refusing to write from his prespective.
The short story feat of iron is pretty good and does a better job investigating ferrus' inner thoughts than his primarch novel
Imagine a Iron Hand vs Necron book.
As an Iron Hands player, I would weep. But I won't because the flesh is weak.
Really loved the medusa Keys and the cyborg zombies army of IH, tragic and brutal also they have cool succesor chapters
Same
The Red Talons and Steel Confessors also have great potential, a tiny amount of fun lore and a bit of limelight possibility, yet still nothing!
I think Manus his early death in the series is also due to the fact that at the time fulgrim came out nobody was expecting the series to contain 54 books.
It hurts because there is a lot of cool play room for how a legion would be affected losing the influence of their primarch so early.
honestly I did not expect that battlebot reference in the beginning of the video
I like you idea, splitting Fulgrim into two books would have just helped that book not feel as packed as it was and giving Ferris some pov leading to the Drop-site Massacre. It would have been nice if we could had a real established relationship with the Iron Hands before Massacre. Ferris and the Morlocks?(audiobook person my spelling is off sometimes) dying off W keying to Fulgrim could have hit harder if we had more of a reason to care. All and all it’s fine it didn’t ruin the series it just could have really been a fucker of a gut punch in there was more set up time.
9:20 here's the thing we have a series like this, it follows Kardan Stronos from the point that he was a sergeant and to his eventual ascention to warleader. The books are The Eye of Medusa and The Voice of Mars we were supposed to receive a third book called The Sapphire King to finish the trilogy. It's been six years since the release of the second book and no sight of the third. It's a really good duology that explores the psyche of the chapter and how the marines deal with the "Flesh is weak" mentality, plus alot of guns, dreadnoughts and technology that would be considered tech heresy by the imperium but we are the favorite boys of mechanicus so its all good.
Oh Battle Brother, Where Art Thou?
Hey, uh, we Iron Hands already have this book series: currently a duology, consisting of The Eye of Medusa and Voice of Mars, with a preceding audiodrama, the Calculus of Battle, featuring our current Chapter Master Elect, Kardan Stronos during his "earlier" years.
"Why haven't I heard of those books", you ask? Because they're ... not good, because the author Guymer appearantely does not like to write about Iron Hands, ending the Voice of Mars at a sort of cliff hanger and has since then refused to complete the series, so bully for us lmfao.
When a subfaction of a subfaction of Space Marines only gets as many stories as entire xenos races
Honestly, just make an 18 book long series based entirely off of the great crusade. That way we can explore those relations between primarch and legion, and delve deeper into the traditions of all the legions. Would also just be neat to see the crusade fleshed out more.
So kind of a Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns situation where both books cover the same major events but the points of view and paths to get there are different for Horus Heresy.
Edit: A Iron Hands version of Brothers of the Snake sounds fun.
If you haven’t read it yet “damnation of pythos” its a good book and really approaches the duality of the iron hands doctrine with marines on both sides of the argument after isstvan and his death. Also “deeds endure” short story in “shattered legions” is a good source of character building for the sons of ferrus. Great video!
Now you say it, it’s crazy how much is crammed into the fulgrim novel, especially when you consider the vast extent of the heresy novels and that sweet fa of any great significance occurs in comparison in many of them.
I'd definitely like more iron hands stuff. To be honest though part of what I love about them is how messed up they are. I'm not sure I'd want to see them fixed.
The best Iron Hand story I ever listened to was a fan-made story by Noman about a single Iron hand marine.
I really think we need a official story about an iron hand marine.
I just finished reading "The Emperor's Finest" and it's interesting that The Reclaimers aren't more of a thing. They seem very Iron Hand-like considering how closely they work the Adeptus Mechcanicus.
One of favorite chapters and it shall never changed!
The one thing that irks me about Ferrus Manus dying is the inconsistency, particularly when other Primarchs or other main characters have THE THICKEST plot armor.
Imagine a Game of Thrones where Eddard Stark dies in the first season and then nobody else bites the dust for the entirety of the show.
battlebots jumpscare 0:01
Thanks for making Iron Hands content that im actually drawn to watch. By the way, awesome podcast with the boys at lorecrimes! AVE DOMINUS NOX, brother!
I love Iron Hands i just wish they remade their identity as the superior support units that more or less gave up mentally but not physical or spiritual
Whats worse is that there was a bunch of Iron Hands novel, Voice of Mars and Eye od Medusa, that were well recieved but never got their follow up.
Some of that is due to GW kinda lore-ing themselves into a corner. Ferrus Manus was basically introduced specifically to get killed first as the big underpin to the entire Isstvan 5 thing. Everything else about him had to be written in reverse.
I had to make a homebrew chapter called the iron cowboys to play with my uncle. Let him look at which chapters there were see any he liked, he told me he liked the iron hands since they had an underdog kind of name.
Ferrus is overshadowed by Vulkan and and Perturabo in his own things
Needs more info on the different clans of Medusa and how they interact. Some of that has to come across into the 10th.
I love the iron hands but because they don't have much lore I decided to do a homebrew chapter so I can make my own lore.
I’m making a Red Talon army because of how much I like iron hands successors so much
Iron hands aren't even the favorite of chapters/ legions who's name starts with Iron! I don't think I've met a single person who's like "Man I think Iron hands are the best"
Me
I couldn't agree with you more. Fulgrim should have been 3 books. The Hobbit films in reverse.
You are not wrong, you are always right 100% of the time. Everything you say needs to be written down and recorded for centuries to come.
Here's a crazy what if:
Clonegrim escapes and becomes the new Primarch of the Iron Hands. He gets a buzz cut, maybe chops off a hand, gets a robot replacement. And he tells his sad Iron Boys that if they ever see a hint of Chaos in him that they should take him out. And the look on Snaky Fulgrim's face when they finally meet!! All you have to do is tell Trazyn your plan and tell him he gets front seats to it and first pick at the loot, so long as he sets Clonegrim free.
Also, the Night Lords are garbage people.
Also the only writer they had during the heresy hated writing for them and that’s kinda carried over
Im at over 120 Horus Heresy book reads now. Theres literally sbout 300 - 350 books and short stories.
Time to listen to the Soggy Bottom Boys again.
I think Cawl should build us a servo-primarch. Decapitation should not stop the Primarch of the Iron Hands.
Well, Arthur, you're officially being listed on the Lexicanum as a 40k content creator. Love the channel, and hope you keep going for a long, long time.
_Edit: As an aside - Ferris does have more stories scattered through the Heresy series. Such as a 4hr story (assuming audio book), that focuses only on Ferris and his Legion, in the novel The Primarchs. Ferris DOES need more content, a novel about Ferris is in the works that takes place before the Heresy, but many who say he only is in one book haven't even made it halfway through the series._
They are ok...no iron warriors (rolls eyes)
The problem is they use the word iron, but are not the glorious iron warriors they are not iron within only iron without
Second biggest problem.
The biggest problem is that they named the Primarch Ferris Manus. Seriously Ferris Manus. That’s like calling Guilliman Utrus Marinus
There is the Shattered legions stuff that is mostly Iron Hands-centric. But yeah, there wa sa lot of narrative potential there (even if it was only to fore shadow the effects the death of Sanginius would have on the Blood Angels) that had been missed.
I do recomend teh SHattered legions stories (mostly shorts and audios), as it does (in places) look at the efffects that Ferrus had on teh legion - those who thought he was on to something and those that saw his death as the justifercation of why he was wrong in his beliefs. It does get wierdly dark in places (won't go into that, but it is interesting).
40k Iron Hands novels could develope this (if I recall, one of thier named characters has threads in this direction). And as the 40k lore enthusiast I am, I would read the shit out of it. Especially the stuff around the eventual formation of the Sons of Medusa - as that was down to a another idealogical split in the chapter.
I’ve just started reading the Horus heresy currently on the flight of the Eisenstein really enjoying it so far.
He did have iron hands though
I AM A MAAAN OF CONSTANT SORROOOW
I'VE SEEN TROOOUUBLE ALL MY DAAAYS
IIII BID FAREWEEELLL TO OLD KENTUCKYY
THE PLACE WHERE IIII WAS BORN AND RAIIISED
I love the Iron Hands
The strange thing is, Iron Hands and their successors provide an amazing set of stories due to their nature.
Are they susceptible to falling to Slaanesh? They have a drive for perfection but it is at the expense of perfecting themselves instead simply ahortxutting it with technology?
Are there Iron Hands who regret their situation? How do some feel when there’s that tiny part of the brain still kicking there questioning if they’ve lost their humanity? How can they do the emperor’s work if they are no longer what the emperor created?
GW is just scared/lazy/doesn’t care enough to write about them. They prefer to flanderise the setting with haha DA traitor, BA vampire, Krieg Shovel memes.
It’s also depressing how little they have of Ferrus leading up to his death. You know how a good writer would handle Ferrus? Build him up to be a really loved character; make people wonder if he truly will die? “How could GW get rid of such a loved character? Perhaps the rumours of HH were wrong and Ferrus survives? He such a compelling character - surely they won’t actually kill him?”
I have come to really love the Orphans of War and Istvaan Survivors. They were the true heroes of the HH doing more against the traitors in the long game than any other factions. IH and their successors are great posits of the question of “can humanity achieve a peak through training and genetics alone? Do we need to augment ourselves? And if we can augment ourselves, is it even worth training?”
Rant over. But Mr Bones, you truly created a passionate burst for me.
I think it’s that’s nothing really changes in 40K. Even with Primarchs returning and primaris coming around, it feels like very little still changes. They should have the balls to do something wild that really shakes up the setting.
Here’s an idea:
The Iron Hands despise Raven Guard and Salamanders for retreating at the drop site, and have even attacked said chapters covertly for this.
Take it to the next level. Have the Iron Hands betray the Raven Guard in a campaign they’re both on. Full on betrayal, that they see as justice.
The Raven Guard flee and this begins a war between the two chapters. Being first founding this is huge news across the Imperium. Raven Guard and Iron Hands successors go to aid their ancestral namesake.
An Astartes vs Astartes war begins in the heart of the imperium, thousand per side. Maybe the final campaign is at Medusa or Deliverance.
Maybe Guilliman steps in, trying to calm things down, but gets shot down by Iron Hands who see him as weak, undeserving, and spoiled.
Ultramarines are suddenly in the war. Medusa is besieged and destroyed. The Iron Hands and their loyal successors flee, they find an ally in the Mechanicus who take up arms in their defense.
Suddenly it’s a stalemate again, and this time the Iron Hands have the backing of the Mechanicum. Guilliman has to back down.
The Iron Hands build up a new system where they rule over humans and mechanicum allies. They reform the legion (maybe new or updated colour scheme).
Suddenly it’s like 30,000 Iron Hands in one spot that are on the verge of being rogue.
Several dozen Astartes chapters blockade the system in fear of betrayal, taking away vital resources from the Imperium.
The Tau empire expands further, Ork waaaghs are able to push deeper into the Imperium.
Suddenly there’s a Cold War. Huge lore for the Iron Hands, Raven Guard, hell maybe even Guilliman is injured and loses an arm or something, maybe he feels like he let down Ferrus and the Iron Hands and now has an iron hand himself.
Suddenly the entire setting becomes more wild and interesting.
I'm hoping that you can ever do a coverage of the end and the death
I’m surprised they haven’t been allowed to lose to the T’au like the other OG chapters GW doesn’t care about.
Ahh good old body dysmorphia marines.
Who even likes Ultramarines? Bob is good a logistics but I came here to chew bubble gum and smite heretics and I'm alllll out of bubble gum.
Ok I got a premise that will make arthur soyface.
Have the Iron Hands discover an ancestor core on a world close to the galactic center. It has obviously been abandoned because it has overloaded and is a bit senile from being filled with so much ancient squat wisdom. They basically talk with it and learn that it contains the personality and memories of ancient ancestors from the past. "Umm does this include Ferrus Manus?" "Was he significant enough to be remembered?" "Of course!" "Then of course!" So they question it more if IT has the personality and memories of Ferrus Manus, it seems unsure and it might have it in another one of it's ancestor cores. So they start raiding leagues of votann worlds to obtain their ancestor cores and combine them together. Meanwhile the core is trying to gleam information trying to find out who this Ferrus Manus guy was and trying to rebuild his personality, getting better and better at it as it gains more computing power.
What this does
1. Gives a grimdark plotline about the Iron Hands wanting their long dead father back so much they are willing to make a new enemy and commit possible tech heresy to ressurect a facsimile of him.
2. Gives the Leagues a reason to start fighting in the setting and stop sitting their like "I sure hope the imperium doesn't start caring about us today!"
3. Makes the Mechanicum learn about the cores and having to balance the three competeing outlooks they could have: Nearly complete STCs have been discovered and must be taken. There is possible abominable intelligence ruling an entire civilization of abhumans. That it is probably a bad idea to make the Iron Hands learn what these things really are, so they need to both aquire the STCs without actually taking them from the Iron Hands.
the soyron hands
Jk they're just fucking plain
I think they should make a great crusade series and really focus on Farris since they've boned him so hard
Would have liked too see more of Ferrus before he died as interested!!!$$$+++
I’d like Ferus Manus to return next with like a kinda Lion vibe. SPOILERS
I think he has change after his appearance in the end and the death vol 2 he seems to have had a bit of learning in death and it’d be cool to see Ferus come back and try to humanize his legion of basically cyborgs.
read "Wrath of Iron"
There’s 2 issues for me when it comes to the Iron Hands and they’re both more to do with the game and the hobby than the lore. In 8th edition and late 9th edition they were really powerful and really boring gun line armies. So if someone said they were playing Iron Hands it always felt like they wanted to play the strongest but least interesting version of marine possible. I found this was reinforced by their paint scheme being easy to apply very quickly, base coat black and dry brush silver and you’ve got a passable Iron Hands army. Maybe apply a few decals if you can be bothered.
The last thing we need is more Horus heresy novels. I disagree fulgrim should be divided and expanded. I wish we had more iron hands too but what’s done is done
I always saw the Iron Hands as NoFap space marines on a dopamine detox.
I think the Iron Hands are super bland, but I think that has a lot to do with the color scheme of their models mixed with the fact that they're really not robotic like they are in the lore. They look like their models are not much different from Ravenguard or Black Templars, though they're not as cosmetically distinct as either of them unless you kitbash the hell out of them. The Iron Hands just end up feeling kinda flat and uninspired. At least I can say that the Ravenguard have the whole emo thing going on, even if I'm not a huge fan of them.
Skaven yet?
i want more iron hands lore as much as i want some tau lore not written by phil kelly. regardless of stance on the tau hate bandwagon, it doesnt help that one bad writer seems to be the only one who gets to write for a whole xenos, aside from books not from their perspective. but like you said gw has a thing against giving people what they want, so in some perverse way phil kelly being the only tau writed is cemented by how vilified he is amongst readers.
Then when Iron Hands get lore, and Tau get at least a mid writer, they need to have a buddy cop series. doesnt make any sense, but hey novelty.
You talk so slowly
I had a dream a few nights ago that the Iron Hands suddenly became GW’s focused chapter (temporarily) because of something happening in the narrative of 40k involving Vashtorr and the Dark Mechanicum. This began with them getting a new named character, which was a named Dreadnought like Carab Cullen or Bjorn the Fell Handed. It was a Deredeo Dreadnought based loosely on the Heresy model, but it had various Iron Hands bits and more ornate armor. I can even tell you its color scheme, wargear, and how its packaging looked.
You've received a vision from the Emperor, you must tell GW at once!
Write that down and get it to someone with a printer ASAP
The Emperor has chosen you brethren
You've been gifted a vision, let us pray it comes to pass.
You should recreate it
I think it's funny the most recent Iron Hands-ish story I've read was by complete accident while reading Peter Fehervari's Dark Coil series.
In it the Tau were rummaging through an abandoned Inquisition research facility and encounter man-made horrors along with a squad of dead Deathwatch marines sent to deal with them, except for one who was an Iron Hand that despite being basically mummified was still alive thanks to all his augments and willing to help the Tau kill the horrors out of sheer pragmatism in getting the job done.
Even though he was literally in it for like only 5 paragraphs seeing them do shit like that tells me you can write a compelling story with them, all that matters is actually writing them in the first place instead of leaving them to collect dust in the attic basically.
I NEED the name of this story
@@blitzburn2871I wanna say The Greater Evil by Peter Fehervari
(Early) They lost their primarch, equarry (Gabriel Santor), Elites (Morlocks and most of Avernii), clan council and a lot of the stuff written after is mostly them losing battles or suiciding to win. Autek Mor and Shadrak Meduson breathed life into the Legion with them unceremoniously ending Meduson in the books and not writing further about Autek.
They’re written as either one dimensional irrational idiots or robot wannabes. There’s a stretch of ways they could be written like calculating + vengeful like Autek or they could lean into the IH zombie/resurrection tech that they extensively have (read Riven, great short story) but instead of marines they’re written like idiots most of the time. I get there’s something to be said of losing their primarch, questioning all they know and so forth but it can still be managed properly as at the end of the day marines are still highly trained, long lived (usually) killing machines.
Also having cybernetic upgrades and more product releases (unique units or new HQ) is always a bonus.
preach
Their biggest problem is that despite their big, good, strong hands, they couldn't hold on to their friends as the Nothing pulled them right out of their hands.
legion of the rock gobblers
I was pretty neutral on the Iron Hands until I got to Shattered Legions. Those stories made the Iron Hands one of my favorite chapters.
While the IH didn't get much love during the Heresy era, I still reccomend the Sisypheum stories to everyone remotely interested in the Iron Xth. Its an endearing adventure that builds up to a sad conclusion thats pivotal to the modern settings' status quo.
Bruh they keep fucking over the iron hands like shadrack Meduson legit an iron hands captain got all the survivors of Istvan and led a massive guerrilla campaign even hitting primarchs
And then
To kill him
Black library has him strung up, abandoned by all his allies, and taunted by a dude we hadn’t seem much of up to this point.
And he dies like a bitch.
Black library did him so fucking dirty.
Spoilers but
The same thing happens to another Iron Hands character named Rauth, a Scout Marine. Dude is a deuteragonist alogn with Kardan Stronos. He gets his head blown off by the oldest Iron Hand, forget his name, while getting btiched. Dude was in 2 books just to die for no reason.
Lemme tell you what the problem is and was. Nick Kyme. The dude was a bigshot when the Horus Heresy started (chief editor i think) and is the perfect representation of Grimdork (taking the grimdark concept too fucking far) . The man was in charge when IH got kneecapped , heck he even killed Meduson himself. The Salamanders nearly escaped his grimdorkiness , i heard their book series has some serious chores written by him. I dont think he is still chief editor (otherwise Guilliman would have gotten assasinated and the Lion used in a fuckin ritual in todays 40k books) but the bastard is still kicking around.
Heck , the new Dawn of Fire book where we are supposed to get first Votann characters is being written by him. I guess Uthar is gonna die then or be buried in an avalanche of monotonous boredom.
First step to fixing IH lore is firing that man , cause i guarantee you , he will have enough clout to screw over any repair attempt.
As a big fan of iron hands I hope we see a return of a ghost Manus, maybe as a part of the legion of the damned. Maybe we can get some insight on his thoughts or something, like GW please...
Money talks, and because they don’t generate enough money, GW does not give them attention
Man I always thought the iron hands would make good money. I mean if you're into a more mechanized build.
@jonathanathor117 They would've if GW didn't kill Ferrus and destroy his legion. They're basically nonexistent what is there to like about them?
It’s not really that simple. You’re not going to make money off something if you don’t invest in its development, and if GW never puts much stock in the Iron Hands to begin with, how are they supposed to make money? For all they know, Iron Hands could be one of the really popular legions if they just had more quality novels and art about them, if their conversion kits had more customization options, if they had more characters to field on the tabletop.
Ironically, the attachment that's essentially made for them is really popular but the common joke is "looks like you painted your iron hands the wrong color" because no one actually wants to play iron hands because they have no lore and the lore they do have. They're usually pretty evil or boring
If they don't invest in the Iron Hands, they won't be popular, and if they don't become populat they won't invest in them. It's a vicious cycle ya see?
who else bricked up rn
Na, I got that big iron rn
Iron Within and Iron With-wait wrong Iron legion
im all bricked up...... 🥵
I LOVE BIG DADDY FERRUS 🗿🗿🗿
I think in 40k the best way to address Ferrus is to add him as the leader of the Legion of the Damned. Iron hands fighting alongside vengeful, robotic killers from the warp would be super interesting and cool
I'm just picturing him looking like a super jacked ghost rider
He currently is as confrimed in Master Of Mankind plus the legion of the damned pretty much being confirmed as all the Astartes killed on Isstvan 5.
@@arstotzka9088what about the loyalist marines on isstvan 3?
@@wailmerpail Fuck 'em
Honestly I kinda hope that they just bring him back so he can improve the legion and leave the legion of the damned more mystierious in nature
9:32 oh no we do have one its called the “eye of medusa” and the “voice of mars” books...which at this point im 90% sure Gw have ended because its been 6 years since the 2nd book in whats meant to be a trilogy. its a book that follows a marine named Kardan stronos who is meant to go from sergeant, to iron father to chapter master but they end it off at the second book right before the big ending conflict is meant to happen
Kardan Stronos, and yes, what the fuck?
@@alastor8091 edited, ty for catching that
Love the iron hands, but I have driven myself to madness seething about the lack of everything for them from 40k models, stories, art to the point I just made my own successor chapter
“The Iron Revenants”.
Neat iron hands factoid: they practice techromancy I.e. they can resurrect their dead through the power of the keys of hel. And tldr they’re a chapter of zealous cyberzombies
When Fulgrim was published I don't think they knew how successful and how long the Horus Heresy series would be, because of that some of those early books can feel a bit rushed and Ferrus certainly sufers from that. Also, I think none of the loyalists at Istvan V get the same depth of character buildng as the other legions, Iron Hands being the worst when it comes to that.
I alsi feel that if you want to go that transhuman route nowadays you would go Skitarii instead of Iron Hands, before the Skitari were playable they might have been the closest faction to the Mechanicus and the one with the strongest transhumanist vibe but they have been dethroned in both regards.
I am making a home brew chapter that starts in the heresy.
A captain survives the istvaan massacre, joins back with his legion, then in m.35 founds his own chapter, dies, is replaced, that replacement dies, and is replaced, then that one dies, and is replaced in m.41. The interesting part being that they go against Ferrus Manass’ ideals of perfection, if not perfect, replace.
They where the more human members of the chapter, and over the corse of each new chapter master their humanity becomes more and more cemented. And they push themselves farther, and farther away from the iron hands until they no long find themselves to be iron hands.
However when that last chapter master died, it was because of nids, and so 1/6th of the chapter got entombed in dreadnoughts, and with the lack of resources, end up having to replace lost limbs with mechanical parts, and having to field a greater than average amount of techmarines, too.
An Irony that is lost on them.
9:03 Sneaky beakies for background? Iron Hands would be disgusted.
left that in as a bit of an easter egg lol
One thing that surprised me about Ferrus is that they never made him think about the biological determinism of being a Primarch. For a guy so self conscious about his strength and weakness, does the fact that he was born a demi-god among men make him feel insecure or like he was always fated to be like this, and that his strength was never his own?
Spoiler alert: the authors of Black Library are AT BEST a mixed bag. They have some genuinely talented writers, some decent authors, and a lot of trash. The HH series is actually a pretty good example. It is also an EXCELLENT example of what happens if you let dozens of people just do their own thing with a narrative (spoiler alert again: it does not work out well in the end).
Like you said it was necessary to kill off a primarch early to show the gravity of the war to come... I agree Ferrus should have had more spolight as well early...
The issue is that even with weaker or annoying primarchs the Night Lords and the Death Guard have some compelling snd really cool characters ... The Iron Hands are absent of that along with their primarch being killed early...
Ferrus and Fulgrim....Guts and Griffith vibes. Wasted opportunity
“Hoed by Black Library”
Whether you want it or not Arthur, major Eldar solidarity is coming the Iron Hands’ way
Iron Hands and there successors are to enemy forces what the Avatar of Kain is to an enemy champion, prove me wrong. * sips the paint water *
Personally adore the Iron Hands. Still of course, you carry excellent points. I feel that they can pull their weight narratively. Highly recommend you all to read the short story of Flesh by Chris Wraight. In my opinion they can be a truly dark and poignant in an interesting way, exploring very horrendous aspects of humanity.
Dude you can’t bring up ferrus primarch book as an example of him getting character. The iron hands and their primarch are side character to the story of one random emperors children preator who single handedly beats down the best of the iron hands and saves their primarchs life. You actually see very little of ferrus manus in the book that carries his name. It is sad.
Also you are right about the iron hands getting knee capped, but you don’t know the half of it. Not only does ferrus die but the iron hands command staff, along with every iron hands character introduces in ferrus’s primarch book dies. Some off screen or as minor blips in the broader story of the emperor children, often mocked in their dying moments. Then we get introduced to shadrak meduson, leader of the shattered legions, who pulls off some amazing feats, like orchestrating an assassination attempt on horus and in this mission they land a headshot on fulgrin that takes him out for a while. Meduson becomes a legitimate problem for horus to the point he sends a whole crusade hoast and one of his best generals to deal with him. How is he killed? The legions iron fathers betray meduson and run away, meduson gets strung up on horus aximunds flagship, taughted by aximund where be gets called stupid, and then beheaded after saying “i will never die”. It is genuinely a bullshit way to go and shows disrespect to the character. Imagine if Sigistmund got sent on a mission by dorn, and as sig is fighting it out dorn abandoned him there to die. It doesn’t feel like the iron hands abandoned their most competent leader, but black library killed him so they wouldn’t have to write about him.
Oh and meduson shows up next as an alpha legion imposter, where the imposter says meduson died like a bitch. Just to rub it in.
If you were an iron hands fan, I think you’d be bitter too.
It took me a bit to come around to them but I have a love for the iron hands. Ignoring the nod to Guts and Griffith that Fulgrim and Ferrus have that makes me like them out the gate, the hands are children that lost their father and are taking his teachings to the logical extreme. Dad was weak, dad was weak because he had feelings, dad's feelings caused hesitation, dad's hesitation caused him to die, we will remove weakness it is what dad would have wanted. There's great story of loss with them that resonates with alot of people. I see a comparison to the blood angels alot with them but it's subtly different imo. The blood angels adored sanguinious and mourned when he died. At that point there was less "shock" that a primarch could die. The hands were the first to lose their primarch outside of a sanction. They have never left that initial stage of shock.
Tldr: the hands are neat and there's alot of subtext to them I feel
Proof that the blood angels are just being babys about it. The iron hands only went moderatly insane over it and the blood angels are still losing their shit
can you PLEASE do a Soul Drinkers video soon theyre my favorite marines and i’d love to hear your opinion on them
The short story feat of iron does a better job showing the inner thoughts and motivations of ferrus than his primarch novel does