Are Iron Gall Inks safe for Gold Nibs? - Q&A Slices
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
- Brian does a deep dive into the potential issues with Iron Gall ink, and whether or not these unique ink formulations are a good choice for modern fountain pens. Originally from Goulet Pencast Episode 24.
Pencast Episode 24: • An All-Ink Q&A with so...
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 The question
0:50 The quick answer
2:28 The long answer
10:17 Drew's two cents
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stochiometically optimised means that only the amount of salts needed to have a complete reaction are added to the ink. Traditional inks had an excess and therefore where more corrosive.
Platinum Blue Black, formulated as modern iron gall per Platinum's description, is supplied into steel-nibbed Procyon, also intended to be kept for long with the slip-n-seal mechanism(its over 6 months installed on my procyon now), so that's either an ongoing trial by fire, or Platinum had tested it.
Iron Gall ink is acidic and etches the surface of the paper and therefore becomes unerase-able
Iron Gall was used on parchment which is lamb skin
The etching was needed to bind the lamp black to the parchment to make sure the writing never fell off the parchment
Furthermore Iron Gall is neither a dye or a carbon pigment but a chemical reaction that blackens and etches the paper, therefore is archival as it can never be washed out of the paper
I constantly use Iron Gall Diamine Registrar ink with no rotational cleaning for months in steel nibs with absolutely no corrosion on my nibs
Gold is inert and unaffected by acid
Aqua Regia would like to have a chat with your gold nibs. But to be fair that’s a solution of fully strength hydrochloric and sulfuric acids.
Incidentally, I left a bottle of that open overnight in the lab once in undergrad and… uh… well… don’t do that.
Gold is unaffected, but gold nibs are not solid gold. And the tipping has no gold in it at all. And even with gold nibs, traditional iron gall can clog a pen to the point of not being usable, and cleaning such a pen out is nearly impossible. You're using a modern iron gall, but I don't like it in fountain pens, either. This said, I see no reason to use iron gall in a fountain pen, as a personal thing. I have no need or reason to do so, and I don't think modern iron gall ink is anything to write home about. Just personal taste, but when I use iron gall, I want it to be traditional, I want to use it with a dip pen, and I want to use it on traditional paper, and on goat skin parchment, which is still available from a couple of sources. Modern iron gall simply doesn't work nearly as well for such paper and parchment.
Drew’s face every time Brian is getting ready to do a deep dive just slays me lol
Wait until this week's Pencast. OOF! - Drew
I always thought the risk was mostly due to corrosion, and gold, quite famously, doesn't corrode. So from that perspective, I figured it was safer to use with gold nibs than steel. But I didn't take the acidity into account, so it's good to get this additional information.
That's what I think would be the case too.
Pure gold does not corrode. However gold alloys of lower karat, such as British 9 karat and North American 10 karat gold do, in fact, corrode, and often noticeably. 14 karat and up generally are safe from corrosion under ordinary conditions.
@@gutfinski That's it exactly. Gold nibs are not solid gold, and the lower the K, the more other materials are in the alloy, and these can corrode, though my experience is that it takes a LOT of exposure, and very infrequent cleaning, for this to happen. On many pens, the tipping is a separate issue. It's often impossible to learn exactly what metals are used for the tipping, but gold is not one of them.
All in all, I wouldn't use iron gall, including the modern version, in any fountain pen I cared about. I prefer dip pens, which I use almost as often as fountain pens, but this is one very good use for cheap Chinese fountain pens.
@@jamesaritchie1 I agree. The tipping material is often called Iridium, but actually contains other metals. Even is the body of the nib is gold and the tipping material is a corrosion-resistant alloy, the boundary layer of brazing material bonding the tipping to the body of the nib may not be resistant to some type of alkaline or acidic inks.
i havent had any problems with iron gall in my fountain pens. Im using platinum blue black at the moment. Im thinking of getting the classics line up because iron gall does so well on cheap paper
I used Platinum Classic Lavender Black in my Lamy 2000 for ages without any problems 💁♂️
Loved the info in this video btw! 🧐
That is great to know! I love the Classic inks, but have been hesitant to use them in my L2k and other similar, modern pens.
I have used MB permanent blue which I believe is iron gall for years in all my gold nibbed pens and have had no feed or nib damage. Oddly, I have had tarnishing on vermeil and gold plate trim rings and clips on Deltas, Viscontis and Montblancs that I use heavily. I can't imagine that the ink could affect trim though. I presumed the damage was from various leather pen cases.
Thanks for the thorough and helpful answer. I enjoy the informative and fun episodes.
Iron gall ink is so f'n metal and fun to tell people about. I keep a Pilot Varsity inked up with R&K Scabiosa and a Platinum Prefount with a KWZ IG blue. Never clean them.
Look at Drew's face! That's the only thing I watched and heard in this video. You can see his face and hear it too. Yes, you can hear the voice of his face; very expressive!
LOVE seeing videos like this :)
Got occasionally Rohrer & Klingner Salix on my Lamy 2000... No problem whatsoever, but yeah, I try to not let more than a couple of days my 2000 without using and I always tend clean it thoroughly, especially with Salix. But so far Salix has been a problem free ink for me. However I agree is always a good keep an eye and be cautious.
Thank you for the video.
Well, I’m glad I watched this video before loading Platinum Classic ink in my Lamy 2000. I lover the Forest Black and have been using on a daily basis. I will stick to steel nibs for my everyday writing. Thank you for sharing this information…
It's serendipitous that this topic came up now because after years of avoiding iron gall inks, a few weeks ago I decided to get Rohrer & Klingner's Scabiosa and a purple Sailor Compass to dedicate to it. That went so well that more recently I got R&K's Salix and a Pilot Explorer to dedicate to that ink. The fact that vinegar is recommended for cleaning has me wondering whether Goulet's Pen Flush would be as good as (or better than?) vinegar for cleaning a pen that has had iron gall ink in it?
I regularly use Platinum Classic inks in antique lever fill pens with gold nibs and have had no issue. That said, I've been hesitant to use it my modern pens like L2k, etc.
Drew - leaving them in the ink would have reduced the oxygen contact, reducing the potential for rusting.
That's a very good point! - Drew
Thank you for your video, always interesting argument. Please add the english subtitles. Thank you, good work and stay safe 💪🏻
Interesting. I've recently bought the IG green #3 kwz because I really liked the darking effect, but I didn't really pay attention to the iron gold and what it does.
Vinegar is dilute acetic acid and all acetates are soluble.
I had a question....how do I get all of the water out of my fountain pens when im done cleaning them? There's always those last drops that I can't seem to get to. I have a built in piston pen..and a cartridge pen.
I'm going to stay here and wait because I also have the same question.
Hey, It's a bit late but I think I found the solution to this problem. So you gotta put the (whole) nib section, up side down, ( the nib should be looking at the ceiling ) on a paper and let it dry. It should take most, if not all of the water in the inner section.
BTW, Gold does not (like Steel) corrode and was thus used for use with Iron Gall inks. So the nib should be fine. However, they do not recommend it because Steel nib pens typically are cheaper and this if they break it is no big deal. But if the feed or a part of the piston breaks on Gold nib pens, uff, expensive 🙈
This. Gold is concidered a precious metal because it dose not rust or tarnish
@@PacoElMapache Noble metal.
This is correct. No damage to the gold per se but if the iron reacts to other components of the gold nib pen, you lose out more than a less expensive steel nib.
@@lukaszpokoju Yeah, in some languages like Dutch, there is no differentiation between both terms. That is why confusion might occur 🙈
Hydrochloric acid won’t attack gold, sulfuric acid will. Also, never EVER use pen flush or bleach solutions with iron galls.
I have cleaning habits like you which is why I have a dedicated Preppy!
So just went karaoking. Theater friends. Both of you should do this for your channel. Yep.
I accidentally left R&K in a cheap pen and it ate a hole in the nib. Remember that gold nibs are not pure gold but an alloy. They may be susceptible to damage if kept in a pen for a long time.
Cite the source, not the Wikipedia, sir