im a teenager who lives in sri lanka, a small 3rd world island in south asia litarally thousands of miles away. will never see mr peterson in person. but im getting the opportunity to learn a full university course on human personality by the one of the gratest minds alive today. thank you sir.
You can it's just little bit hard you island can be equal to Maldives or the palm Island of middle East you just have to work a little bit fast and more
“A horse, a horse! My kingdom for a horse!” Act-V, Scene-IV of William Shakespeare’s play, Richard III. This is an excellent example of how value may change depending on circumstances. Desire is the key.
I've always seen some Mises on Peterson's arguments. Libertarianism has a lot to do with personal responsibility. A lot of people think libertarianism is about free market, but free market is a consequence, not a basis.
Libertarian is the non-aggression principle, that's pretty much it. Its not even about responsibility. You can be a raging bigot and be libertarian, you just can't initiate force or coercion. Voluntary interaction. And of a society ends up being socialist through voluntary interaction then so be it. Also the left libertarians get it wrong. ALL libertarian is left. Always has been if you use the definitions from the 1700s. Socialism was originally the socialization of power to the consumer and the worker which was free market. Libertarian socialism is the socialization of power through non-aggression. One cannot use today's definition of socialism in libertarian socialism because its an oxymoron. Conglomerating power into a central authority through force is 100% opposite of libertarian.
@@luxinvictus9018 OMG, you don't want to be associated with ancaps, what a tragedy! How to keep living without another idiot that can't conceive a society with rules that are not set and/or enforced by the State?
@@luxinvictus9018 if you think personal responsibility through there is no state. Laws will always exist as they are a function of human action (there were always certain rules to abide by even during the hunter gatherer days of humanity. Written laws have existed without states, see the bible). Watch Hoppes private law society lecture for more info. And people that think there should be no laws are egoists and they are not ancaps.
“Choice” by Dr. Robert Murphy is very easy to read: no math, no obscure language, etc. It’s written very clearly in simple language anyone can understand without any prior knowledge of or interest in economics. I highly recommend it!
It is an older book, but I always encourage people to read "The Worldly Philosophers" by Heilbroner. It is a historical look at economics through the framework of a brief biography of early practitioners. The language is very welcoming, and I learned a lot from it. It also helped me develop a good working relationship with my Econ prof, as I got to name-drop Thorstein Veblen in the class, which he said was the only time he had ever come across anyone not in t he field who knew who Veblen was.
It's amazing to see that Mises is being discussed by someone like Peterson, someone well known everywhere. I remember reading and learning Austrian economics just after the 08 crash and being imoressed at the insight but also disapointed about how little people knew about this school of thought. So glad after over a decade the word is getting out there.
I don't see it as one influencing the other, I see both are truth seeker, and genuine knowledge lover. You can be an arrogant arse and holding on only to your opinion regardless the size of the truth you're carrying. We have a lot of them. But to see someone who humble enough to admit a greater truth and accept it, now that's rarely happened. That's the ethic educated people supposed to possess. That's the genuine motive to pursue knowledge.
I think JP is trying to build a new educational institution with his podcast and Thinkspot. He can't teach any more so he's sort of lecturing and conversing with fellow professors whom he would perhaps hire if he were a dean.
Right? I was almost lost on JBP with no biblical lectures and a seeming distaste for "anarchy" or "decentralized security and freedom". But Bitcoin and an Austrian Economist are about the best dang pulls to get me back, lets go!!!!!!!!
@@Abc89266 I think Bob was going to say malinvestment but must have decided against introducing a new term after two syllables. I wish Bob had been able to mention Murray Rothbard's criticism of Mises pragmatism but I guess that would have moved the conversation into the political realm when just explaining Austrian economics in 2:30 was an amazing feat in itself.
Dreams do come true! Jordan Peterson talking about Austrian Economics! My two favorite things come together. Despite all that's happening, this demonstrates that the world is moving in a good direction.
@@mlbonfox8199 Sowell is now 91, he's still smart as a whip and I think it would be a shame if these two great minds didn't at least have one conversation before it just physically can't happen anymore...
Yea. This is a sign of a huge turn in the tides, culturally. The sense of anticipating the first few big waves to sweep over the cultural horizon isn’t a wrong impression here.
I agree 100%. Kind of got shivers when I saw this episode pop up. Austrian economics is the one piece of the puzzle Jordan hasn't really dug deeply into. He didn't even realize, maybe until now, how much his way of thinking lines up with the Austrian school of thought. Definitely a win for the good guys.
@@psychcowboy1 did you actually listen to the man? I mean he is pretty critical of the rich vs poor narrative but it shouldn't have been that hard to see what he was getting at
@@psychcowboy1 peterson alone could fill a book or three.... Sowell could fill several as well, lol, bit Sowell for example pointed out sampling errors and biases in statistics often used to say that racism is running rampant, just to name one case
@@psychcowboy1 Hes never doubted inequality. Hes denied the medias claim about how distinct the lines are and the racism they claim. If youve bothered to actually read his work youd know he says equality of outcome isnt possible, and that people with more valuable skills will almost always become wealthier.
@@psychcowboy1 Thats not mainstream thought though. Mainstream thought is that systemic racism and sexism is why people dont succeed/arent equal. Saying the US/Western World is mostly merit based is actually controversial today. If youre asking if Sowell has ever said something Nobel Prize worthy, then I would agree and say he hasnt. But hes stated basic facts and corrected mainstream thought in a very simple, yet eloquent way in his books. And that doesnt discredit Sowell's intelligence in any way, nor does that disprove anything hes said. Its funny how you hold "right-wing" thought to a much higher standard to thought that conforms to your ideology. But then again, if you leftists didnt have double standards, you wouldnt have any standards at all.
This is like a crash course in economics. I've probably learnt more in these two and a half hours than I would have in an entire semester, and it's free!
Facts. Without discovering bitcoin, i would've never discovered austrian economics. Once one understands human action and the consequences associated with them, you won't see the world the same again.
Best I took away from a course in Economics was Laffer's curve. He studied tax rates and people's willingness to work and found if you raise taxes too high then people stop working (or go off the books), but if you leave them too low, the government doesn't get as much as it possibly can. (Kind of a shitty objective, but anyway, they write the laws) So he made a graph and on the curve the ideal tax rate for the government is about 30%. Those that depend upon taxes keep screaming to raise it though, since they don't do the actual work.
I love this Dr. Robert Murphy guy. He was able to field some really tough questions. It's comforting to know that there's a diplomatic explanation of reality at any level of logic/debate.
If you want more you can go through the backlog of Contra Krugman episodes, but if that's too focused on economics for you you can always check out Murphy's own podcast in which he also discusses political events and philosophy besides economics.
@@psychcowboy1 It depends I see you on all the comment replies so I would like to ask you what ideas you disagree with? To get a better understanding about your viewpoint.
@@psychcowboy1 Their vocabulary usage is intelligent. You have to be more precise. What arguments do you have to offer as a rebutle to what they provided here?
Ownership endows a sense of responsibility. Without individual property, you rely on collective responsibility which unfortunately isn’t a compelling force. Very insightful discourse. Thanks JP
How does ownership endow responsibility? Bp dumps oil into the Ocean, big pharma gets half the American public hooked on heroin, the drug war is run to propagate large scale prisons. All businesses are motivated by the acquisition of private property. Regulations endows responsibility because there are consequences.
@@johnekopy without the collective action against the British crown, the America we know today probably wouldn't have existed. The constitution is a collective statement that the individuals within the collective of America are free with reasoning and further statements as to why.
@@veryfitting Fair enough and I think I agree with your statement, but (playing a bit of devil's advocate), couldn't someone also make the argument that if it wasn't for each man (or woman) doing their individual part and choosing to fight, that the collective wouldn't exist. I'm still working all this out and trying to understand each viewpoint, so bear with me.
I have had an affinity for libertarianism and the Austrian school of economics for about ten years, and I got into Peterson's work about 5 years ago. I am very happy to find that these two realms of interests in my life are interacting.
Gotta echo the "not very perceptive" comment, oddly, since you perceptibly found great things. It's been obvious imo that Austrian Econ and particularly Freedom is missing from Peterson's analysis. I stopped following him for that reason, but this is a coming to knowledge that the perceptive could see coming from miles away, imo.
If the legitimate owner is the collective and an individual privatizes ie monopolizes the resource to his own use, I think is how the theory goes, not that I agree with it.
@@jeanlamontfilms5586 I think that in a collective ownership situation, the individual steals by monopolizing ie privatizing and taking the resource out of public circulation. The books at the public library belong to everyone, but if I take them home and never bring them back then I'd be stealing from the community. Not that I'm a communist. But that's how I would argue the case.
first there was malice and anarchism, then sound money and the bitcoiners, and now austrian economics and bob murphy. this is an important path you are pursuing, dr peterson. keep digging, this rabbit hole is deep. 👍✌
Yea, I love Malice and JBP. But I don't think they were at their best in that interview (despite it being fantastic!). They might have gotten off on the wrong foot- I really hope we get another interview now that the introductions are out of the way.
I did not know what to expect with this JP interview with Dr Murphy. It has surprised me by being one of the most informative interviews I have had the pleasure of listening to, ever!
Austrian economics puts the philosophy of classical liberalism into action and makes it understood in application. Love Mises. Great to see it mentioned on JP.
@@psychcowboy1 the "wealthy" as you claim, for the most part, werent wealthy in their early days. In fact, 70%+ of millionnaires are self made. So your whole premise is flawed. Being wealthy isnt natural. Unless you are a part of the minority who inherited their wealth, you had to work to get rich. Plus, your "response" doesnt even cover the quote you put. Go learn a thing or two about capitalism before you vomit your anti-wealth fabricated lies. Cheer.
@@psychcowboy1 i just did. Facts. 70% of millionnaires are self made. That means Greed is already being taken care of. Most fortunes are gone within 3 generations. Greed dries them up, and the money they spent goes back into circulation. This is called fact. If you are greedy and want to be rich, you HAVE to make your money available. Unless you pillage, there is no other way. To make the money available, you lend it to an entrepreneur, home buyer, invest into someone, create jobs yourself... There are no rich people that keep their money under their mattress,wich would be the problem of greed. As long as the money circulate, everybody profits off it. As they say, someone has the build the lamborghinis.
This episode is over 2 hours long and has only been out for 5 minutes. Someone gave it a thumbs down without listening. Whoever you are, you are the one who really needs to listen.
Interesting. There are no thumbs down but a few thumbs-up now. I love Bob and have known him for years so broke protocol and face an up before listening myself. 😉
People can be quite tribal, and some have no problem going out of their way to try to cast aspersions at those they disagree with or are offended by. Some people, once they decide they like or hate someone, they go out of their way to demonstrate that.
In California and much of the USA we have this very big problem, where even if you bought outright your own house and property or land, the government can take it from or kick you off of your own property. I know many people who were made homeless because they couldn’t get the permits for their own property. I myself bought a mobile home but wasn’t allowed to put it anywhere because it was older, and was having to live in my car. You can no longer do what you want with your own house or property or land, even if it doesn’t hurt anyone else. A lot of people are homeless now because they can’t afford the high rent costs and it’s illegal to live in their mobile or RVs. It artificially increased rent prices through excessive regulation and with it, extreme homeless crisis. I wish there was more discussion on this so that people wouldn’t be homeless even if they paid for land or a mobile home or RV just because of state regulations.
The circle JP is surrounding himself with for these podcasts are the seeds of a cultural renaissance. Imagine them coming together to form the new decentralized institutions that teach future generations individual liberty, science, technology, sound money, good architecture, permaculture, high art etc Drowned out under all the noise of the herded radical left and right is a sleeping giant and this is what it's manifesting.
I always crack up that two of the most famous anarchists in modern times are Bob Murphy and Tom Woods. Two very calm and sweet balding older men that you could never imagine are such "radicals"
@@LarsAndersenFrihed It would be amazing if Professor Peterson went further down this road. His prominence would spark a lot of interest into austrian economics.
@@psychcowboy1 what a fascinating creature you are. You made a video dissing him 2 years ago and yet here you are, perusing the comment section on a video of his.
Book to read: Socialism - An economic and sociological analysis by Ludwig Von Mises. First German edition 1922 - English 1932. The modernity of his thinking is mind-boggling. You want to be slapped in your face to wake up, read that book. The chapter "Destructionism" is just ...
This. Mises essentially predicted the economic collapse of the Soviet Union *decades* before it happened, because centrally planned economies are inherently unsustainable since they cannot calculate rapidly changing and diverse consumer demand. Put simply -- they didn't have a functioning price system. Without a functioning price system, you cannot accurately judge consumer demand. If you cannot accurately judge consumer demand, then you tend to under-produce things people need *and* over-produce things people don't need. It was not a coincidence that Soviet grocery stores were virtually empty, but at the same time they had entire warehouses, silos, and hangars full of military goods. To Mises, this was the inevitable end of any centrally planned economy. They don't last; and only through sheer force of violence and coercion can they last as long as they do.
My face lit up when I saw this suggestion. I had the pleasure of meeting Bob Murphy (he was Bob then) 20 years ago at the Mises institute while he was still a doctoral student at NYU. I found him to be friendly and brilliant. I haven't seen him since but it was wonderful to see him blossom, so to speak, both intellectually and professionally. This was a real pleasure to watch. Thank you for publishing this!
I love the variety of the subjects addressed in those podcasts. It continually amazes me, how one person can make so much sense :D Salute from Poland 🇵🇱🦞
Despite knowing pretty much everything Bob was going to say in advance, he always articulates it so well and with such precision that I'm blown away by it. Simply brilliant.
Bob is great. He navigated this discussion professionally, allowed Jordan to digest his talking points and interjected to keep focus on the teachings of Mises. Well done.
JBP has many analogies to Hayek in my opinion. Hayek actually started out learning psychology before he went into economics. Hayek’s father and brother were evolutionary biologists, which also had an effect on his thinking. In the end, I see both Hayek and JBP building a model of naturally evolving emergent orders grounded in human psychology.
@@wiskybiskits Definitely. Would definitely recommend JBP reading that. Didn’t want to drag everyone too far into the weeds until they asked to be though 😉
That’s all true. What I love about Mises is how he isolates they study of economics from psychology. There’s no denying that psychology is critical in the choices we make. Though it’s also true that there is a lot to know about how to manage scarcity (in abstract) that has nothing at all to do with psychology and is just fundamental to the nature of human action as such.
Great talk! You guys covered 1) marginal value theory, 2) socialist calculation problem, 3) interest as time preference, and 4) Austrian Business Cycle Theory. I think Bob might have missed an opportunity to discuss Mises' Regression Theorem of Money when the subject of Bitcoin was highlighted, but overall Bob did a great job being a spokesman for the Austrian School of Economics.
Looking at your profile picture i wonder how much time it will take for JBP have a paleo-libertarian on the show, imagine Hoppe talking to Peterson hahaha
Austrian economics has a very surprising and wonderful relationship with what Jordan Peterson teaches. The intersectionality will be on multiple levels and be tangible, as compared to the vapid and unsustainable intersectionality of woke theory.
The extreme individualism is a common factor for both. I think they are both missing a dimension. The Austrian ant would be slacking off, but he isn’t.
I might be the only person to think this, but what I got from this video is that the more Jordan Peterson learns about economy the farther towards pristine Marxist theory he leans. Purely materialistically, just so we're clear, woke stuff is a complete misappropriation of thinking used in that theory.
Ron Paul introduced me to Austrian economics back in 2008. It was my first redpill, and the knowledge I gained has helped me navigate truth in politics, history and psychology. Cool to see Dr Peterson learning this stuff.
@@brokenone22 It was a chore albeit understandable to go through comments on his Malice interview that voiced impressions of anarchists being synonymous with Antifa. And here’s Bob Murphy. Hopefully thoughts if not minds will change.
i remember working hospitality at the front desk... we always joked that our General Manager only read books under his desk all day. A few years later I became the GM, and I still get a laugh at how silly it was to think the 'suits' didn't earn their salaries. There was SO much to do.. Different things entirely that were important to keeping the business running smoothly. Anyway... something in this episode made me want to share.
Well said. I see, very often now, the argument that landlords are parasites who contribute nothing of value and merely exploit renters. There exists a willfull blindness to the value of the management of resources, material and human. Not to mention the risk of investment and the associated sacrifice and self-discipline exercised in order to build capital for investment. Im not a landlord, but i hope with hard work and frugality to become one.
You should read Hans Herman Hoppe, he lays out probably the most thorough defense of the notion that human rights are necessarily a derivative of property rights ever put to paper in The Economics and Ethics of Private Property.
I'm currently reading it but in my experience it requires a little background on both mises AND Kant. Now, maybe I'm not literate enough in english to understand it however i had that experience of having to read both of them at least a little.
Respect to Dr. Peterson for bringing in one of the best Austrian economists alive at the moment. Bob isn't just a solid econ guy but he's also a really good dude. Probably couldn't have chosen a better person to represent Mises. Wish there were a little Rothbard in there as well but its all good.
Jordan, it really seems as if your best guests and best podcasts are those where you are attempting to flesh out certain concepts and where those particular guests have some expertise in the related areas. This is a great discussion, and a productive one. I always know it's a good meaty session when it's 2.5hrs. It means there was a proper balance in exchange and no shortage of material.
@@psychcowboy1, You are delusional if you believe these concepts are common knowledge... or that everyone has figured it all out... because the public certainly doesn't seem to know enough about it to raise objections to the politicians that push policy contrary to what promptes healthy economic relationships... politicians who may or may not be sufficiently educated on the subject themselves. I see your comments throughout this thread... and you like to talk big... but I'm calling your bluff. Dispense with the character attacks, and articulate some cases of where and how the Austrian economic school of thought fails.
As a student of both economics and Jordan Peterson, I enjoyed this podcast more than most. Certainly not on the quantitative end, but his philosophical knowledge and psychological intuition provide great understanding at the most fundamental levels of economics.
yeah ur not gunna see much maths and positivism done by austrians. austrians recognise economics as a social science in which praxeological deduction is used rather than forms of positivism
Sincere critique -- Jordan, you have to let people finish their thought before you jump in with a segway to a long thought. Sometimes you're letting you're mind get carried away and being unfair to your guest. I know your thoughts must go a million miles a minute (and I've got you on double-speed!) but you HAVE TO be more attentive to the conversation and let the guest's responses breathe for a second. You cut this guy of many times and we lost his answer to the question along the way. You have to listen more carefully and allow your guest room to complete his response. Much respect! ♡
@@paulrath7764 no, he doesn't ALWAYS let guests get their full thoughts out. And certainly not in this specific interview. I'm not saying this to be mean -- he's only human. He's usually pretty good about it (and I would never claim his interjections are irrelevant), i just notice that sometimes he gets a little excited... Like when he asks his guest to expand on a point and then, for example, should a word (than the audience may not be familiar with) come up, he jumps in again to get a definition, but he then forgets to allow the guest to circle back to finish up the answer he began before Jordan interrupted. Honestly, Peterson is just a much faster thinker and speaker than most people. I think some guests are good about making sure they are able to finish their thought, but others are likely a little intimidated (or get lost in all the tangents, perhaps) and we sometimes dont get back to the original question. I just think he's got do much swirling in his head that he just digs and digs and digs and sometimes loses track of where it began. He is havng these conversations for himself, to learn, as he's often stated, so maybe its an unfair critique in that sense, but I do think he could (maybe should) work at keeping the conversation clear for the audience who is not in his head with him (so to speak), and who want to follow along. Ive heard him say, and I think we can all agree, that it is important to be present and to be intently, intentionally listening, not just waiting for the other person to finally shut up so you can jump in again. We all do that lol. I really admire and respect Dr Peterson, and this is just a sincere, well-intentioned criticism meant to alert him to something very minor, but that I think noone has brought up to him (recently, at least). Cheers! 🦞
@@chrisc1257 that's fair to bring up, for sure. And I absolutely don't mean my comments to be rude, or uncivil or anything like that. It's just a gentle critique. And you're right, he's still got a lot going on. I've got total sympathy for that. I just really believe that if someone mentioned it, he would watch himself and if he agreed, he'd be like, "Oh shit, you know what, you might be right. I just get excited and have so many questions lol But yeah, I hear ya. I'll keep an eye out for that in the future." Totally cool 😎 as always. Cheers!
Exceptional short course on Austrian economics. Peterson does a phenomenal job of relating the Austrian school to many issues from "systemic racism" to interest rates.
Me too! Halfway through this conversation I had the overwhelming urge to speak to my computer, as if I was talking to Jordan, to tell him that he needs to put Sowell's "Knowledge and Decisions" at the top of his reading list.
This kind of gave me a different outlook on my life. I always feel like I should do more. Never happy with where I'm at. When you pointed out you can't do or know everything, I felt that in my heart. I have been feeling like a failure. So many things I need to do. So many things weighing me down. Sometimes just starting with making my bed is making more sense now. I can't just do all these things that want to do all at once. And I need to take one step at a time and not be ashamed of that. It feels like most times I'm not living but just putting out fires but I still dream. I sometimes feel a sense of accomplishment. But I always want to learn and grow. This was great. Thank you!
I can’t relate to this SO HARD. I am a Renaissance man of sorts - but it comes at the cost of formal accomplishment and earning more money. Hearing him say that also made me feel better about specializing more and being a bit more practical.
Would have liked to hear Robert speak to the end of his thoughts more consistently. I think that JP and all of us listening would have benefitted more this way.
24:00 yes Unions are the biggest pushers of minimum wage. The union members are never paid minimum wage - but it drives out lower wage competition that competes for the union member jobs.
They also push to abolish "sweat shops" for the same reason. Low wage competition in foreign countries. If you think sweat shops are bad and you can stand listen to this interview without shutting it off in horror, you should look up Benjamin Powell on sweatshops. He will at least make you doubt your assessment of them.
@@Hashishin13 better to say sweat shops are less than ideal but better than the alternative and to hope those nations that have them transition through that stage of economic growth as rapidly as possible.
views on this doubled during the time I spent watching it. This is amazing! So happy to see Bob Murphy get the opportunity to explain these things to this audience and make people aware of the virtues of the Austrian school.
I'm just upset that I found Jordan Peterson so late in my life. Beside Christopher Hitchens & Douglas Murray...Jordan Peterson is one of the greatest mind of our time. I'm at awe at Jordan's intellectual around human nature...and the facts of life. GOOD God I'M SO UPSET AT MYSELF! Thank you! NEW SUB!
Before listening: This is the interview I have been waiting for - having studied Hayek for years, I hear so much of what Hayek said in terms of complexity and emergent order in what Peterson has been saying for a long time... After listening: Indeed, this conversation was well worth the wait, but I think that Dr. Murphy could have done a better job in regards to making some points... Specifically, in regards to the minimum wage topic, he could have brought up Bastiat's "That which is Seen, and That which is Unseen" to illustrate the unforeseen consequences of policy decisions... I am glad he obliquely referenced "The Pretense of Knowledge", but he could have also mentioned "The Fatal Conceit" and the notion of the two distinct - and largely conflicting - moral inheritances of which we are the beneficiaries; namely, the morality of the family and the small village and the morality of the extended order... The former, being more instinctive and deeply encoded, is why collectivist ideologies strike a resonate chord, while the latter is more of a learned, cultural inheritance... I am glad Peterson explicitly touched on the evolutionary character of social institutions - this idea of spontaneous, emergent order is crucial to explaining the durability of things like moral systems, language, law and other complex orders that arise from our actions but not our design... In this light, I wish Dr. Murphy had been more explicit in terms of making the case for individual liberty as a catalyst for allowing established orders and institutions to evolve and adapt... When they were discussing wealth inequality as a driving force behind innovation, my mind went immediately to "The Creative Power of a Free Civilization" from Hayek's The Constitution of Liberty... That chapter maps precisely to the points and observations made during that part of the conversation... One extraordinary thing that Hayek did in TCOL was to distinguish between merit and value - Jordan eventually gets to this point when he talks about "functional utility" around the 2:06:00 mark... In TCOL, chapter 6 is entitled, " Equality, Value, and Merit"... In this, Hayek points out that reward according to merit must mean, in practice, reward according to "assessible" merit - merit that others can recognize and agree upon... This, of course, leads to the fact that the assessment of merit is inherently subjective... The objective measure of one's contribution is the value of the result - the functional utility of the contribution, as Peterson suggests... In other words, we are not rewarded for the effort we put forth in doing a valuable thing - we are rewarded for the value itself... This is a crucial distinction that Hayek thoroughly elucidates in the referenced text... Overall, it was wonderful to hear someone explicitly mention Hayek and Mises to Jordan; that said, I would have rather had Don Boudreaux or Russ Roberts involved in this discussion...
I loved your comment. I actually took note of those chapters to read, and apply them to my consulting on Market-Based Management regarding rewards/compensation/incentives.
Excellent summary of some pretty critical omissions, I agree. Personally, I felt much frustration at the lack of any discussion as to what makes ethical and just property rights. I know Mises was a utilitarian and didn't really venture into the philosophy of property, but JP's insistent digging for 'first principles', as well as a philosophy to 'get the kids excited politically' was a real missed opportunity from Murphy. Human rights, free speech, free markets, all thoroughly defendable only via an understanding of Lockean property theory, as espoused so elegantly and convincingly by Rothbard.
It's great seeing Peterson making Murphy's mind work to come up with an explanation. This truly is fantastic to see Jordan pressing Bob to help the audience get some learning out of this.
Hey Mr. Peterson. If you may consider talking to "Hans Hermann Hoppe". He might be the worlds most influential living Austrian economist. He has a way of explaining things extremely detailed. This would be my dream podcast/interview ever!
Hoppe really is a giant of a thinker, and i think a society of private voluntary security and justice fits Peterson better than the hobbesian enforced state which he mostly agrees with because he's more of a conservative.
Austrian Economics is primarily about behavior and choices far more than it is about money. Money is but one of the metrics that proceed from individual and collective behavior.
well for economic analysis, the method of course is a uniform application that remains consistent regardless of time and location, and we see the emergence of money come out of cooperation and interaction of individuals
I've always found that those who consider property to be theft are those who have none but desperately wish for yours to be liberated from you and 'redistributed' in a way in which they believe to be fair. Therefore, as soon as someone says that property is theft I conclude that I'm dealing with a thief or a coward who desires the state act on their behalf as a thief. What really perplexes me is how these same people can look at you with a straight face and claim some sort of moral high ground.
@@curtisvalle5141 personally I'm against forced collectivism from a philosophical standpoint. What voting does is give me a tiny voice about issues that others find important. I am very seldom given a chance to say, "No." I am given a choice about candidates who will all fund services which I did not request and will never use with money which will be collected from me by force. You know, greater good.
Mr Jordan Peterson. I thank you and appreciate you for your insight and knowledge. Ever since listening to your videos and podcasts, I’ve been challenging myself to be a better man for myself and for those around me. You have a great and positive effect for people like me. I am more grateful to you than you’ll ever know.
It's really cool to see how JBP's approach which focuses bit more on the psychological side of human economic behaviour and the Austrian approach which analyses humans purely through their actions converge to a high degree in their conclusions
Austrians also study action as such - the study of action itself in abstract: Praxeology. I consider that to be their primary epistemological contribution to the study of the management of scarcity.
"I don't know how Marx was able to get away with that." Yes, you do. Bitterness and resentment, as you well know, are lenses through which all people are susceptible to looking.
The point that hit me the most was "you own your own labor, so you also own anything that you trade that labor for." It really breaks down ownership to something from the state of nature and not anything to do with a particular economic system.
Imho property is smth basic and essential to life itself. It’s only during our « modern era » due to economic dynamics that this very notion has been so twisted and perverted
That was an absolutely amazing conversation. I had a basic understanding of economics and how things work in the market, but hearing it explained on that level of detail was extraordinary.
To learn free-market economics is to discover that the giant "Help People" button everyone wants to push actually hurts people. The annoying part is then trying to explain to everyone why you are not an ass for no longer wanting that button pushed.
A bit reductive, but I understand what you mean. I used to be very liberal, but I learned what externalities are, and knowing the concept that anything can have unintended consequences seems to be incongruous with being liberal
parends67 It might be annoying to you because anyone intelligent listening to you won't buy it. Believe me, it's more annoying having to listen to people like you rationalize their moral indifference as being something other than that--especially when you're the person who actually needs help. I've seen this same behavior continually throughout my life. Yeah, helping people is bad; not helping people is what actually helps them. How much of a contrarian nitwit do you have to be to say things like this and believe them?
Right; you presume that you are not an ass, and that other people need to understand this. But your first premise, that you are not an ass, is most likely false, and any attempt to operate from that premise is corrupted by extension.
Dr. Peterson, I have so enjoyed listening to the multitude of your lectures and podcasts. You are very and very truly and inspirational character of our times. I cannot deny that you are a tried and true deeply well read intellectual force of these past two centuries. The theme that keeps arising in my viewings of your oratories is simply this. I truly love how you challenge the left especially the extreme left and what you delve into as postmodernism. I think the way you disappoint me is that you react so violently diametrically opposed. So for example your arguments as compelling as they are and as triumphantly are backed by literature from the past. Why can't you find a middle ground between postmodernism or neo-Marxism as you say and the far right . You haven't convinced me that you're not a puppet for the far right or perhaps you haven't fleshed out your thoughts and ideal ideologies enough to know that perhaps there's a place from them somewhere in between the two polarities. Just a thought just saying lol and by the way I think you're fine as hell and if you weren't married to that lovely lady oh my God would love to spend the afternoon in bed with you Just saying have a nice evening 🤗
This was a delightful listen - Peterson loves to drill down to the bottom for cause & effect - Murphy gives the example or analogy to the core question - Enlightening ...
That is exactly what puts JP at a level where no one comes even close and why liberals attack him. When you pay close attention you will find that most people and organizations will only pay attention and argue issues to a level that suits them and go along with their agenda. To drill deep down brings out undeniable truth and that blows a lot of ideas and agendas out of the water. JP goes so deep that it frightens certain groups and therefore they attack him so fiercly.
@@psychcowboy1 how do you define “smart” here? What smart thing would you like to see in this conversation? The only reason I am asking you this is that I know people listen/read and understand on different levels therefore they have different opinions and by trying to understand someone else opinion we learn from each other. I am not argumentative by asking you these questions. I genuinely whantto know.
Rubbish. The core of the work they were challenging, the Marxism, is Origin of the Family. They didn't even mention it. Being anti Marxist without any focus on Origin of Family is as bad as being Marxist without focusing on it. When I got to the end of the Origin part of the work, or slightly after, I stopped reading it. It quickly became the old rally of empire, who was a good Jew and who was a bad one, basically. Marxism was supposed to be about equality of the species. Why the xBLEEPx does nobody on either side of a Marxist debate even MENTION that any more. It's like a bible without a beginning.
@@psychcowboy1 my initial comment was regarding JP and his ability to drill so deep to causes and effect of people’s behaviour and therefore his ability to then understand where that will lead. I mentioned liberals, in this case journalists, who totally do not understand his level of understanding human behaviour and therefore do not understand or see the truth in what he is explaining.
Acknowledging the risk of sounding dramatic- You have been a huge inspiration to me, and your courage in standing by your principles in spite of the attacks on your character has made you one of my Heroes. I hope you get to resume some type of tours one day, I would love to shake your hand. Additionally, I’m glad to see that your health seems to have improved.
This is such a great interview. To hear all these foundational and fundamental economic theories be discussed in such a large forum. To hear Ludwig von Mises get the recognition his discoveries deserves, after first withstanding the test of time. This has to be a turning point. The only other person who would be nearly as great as this is Soho Forum, Director, Gene Epstein.
Thank you so much for giving Austrian economics some limelight, it is heavily needed in the current economic environment. People really need to know economics subject so that they can see the things the way they are.
More like asking if life imprisonment or life employment is murder. Your example suggests that all things are always owned. Claiming public property is theft. Claiming anything in pre-migration America(drawing the line at Columbus) would have been theft. Since the natives didn't believe in property, all ownership was public, and shared. So, what if you're in a primitive communism culture? Since you can use anything available, as a member of the tribe, by claiming property you aren't saying "I can use this", you already could, you're saying " I will no longer allow any of you to use it." So yeah; you would be taking from others to claim something. The exception would be if you lived in a world that believes everything is already property, but to evaluate the concept of property in such a world is like defining light, as opposed to darkness, while living in the center of the sun.
It's a quote from french economist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (1809-1865) _"La propriété c'est le vol"_ But it's been misinterpreted by many, notably by Marx and his followers. In fact, it should be understood as "wage-employment is theft".
The physical home is a sanctuary, having paid several different entities monies for paperwork, inspections etc. Then after the home purchase the property, poss mortgage and other taxes give "skin in the game" building accountable responsibility. Point being I'd trade most everything inside my home if it meant staying in my home.
Saw a post the other day that said “Packing is a neat way to discover you hate everything you own.” I’m in the process of this now, and after renting for 7 years, it’ll feel good to own my place. My mortgage is lower, and while I’ll have more responsibility, at least I have a shot at building some equity. The beautiful thing about stuff is when we realize we don’t need so much of it. Downsized to 1250 sf and it’s become easy to purge. With this comes the overall mindset to reduce consumption and not buy useless shit. As with everything, some of us increase, others decrease. Hopefully we stay afloat in the larger sea.
@@kt9495 it's a damaged mind that makes us think we need to buy all this stuff we don't need. It often means we Don't have the money to fund the things we really need.
This is the problem. If you need material ownership to have accountability then you are living in the past. We’ve moved on from the Industrial Age. The Information Age is starting to take shape and it is a complex network that shows how we are connected. Ownership is transforming to a shared responsibility for preserving the earth.
@@despoinaire4017 It doesn’t have to really be one or the other, imo. Of course we’re all connected. Everything is interconnected. I know this on a level most don’t sense or feel. The wheel turns slowly.
I am so glad you still here for all of us old and young ..you have a spirit which drives the emotion in your language that connects to the marrow in the bones. you make it understandable. ..thanks
Early after JPeterson was thrown onto the public scene a few years ago, and after just a few of his ensuing interviews, I remember commenting that I wish he had a libertarian/free market/Austrian Economics- understanding to join his psychological-social-personality experience and wisdoms … hallelujah to seeing him now putting himself exactly into that position ! Just imagine his lectures and interviews two years from now… he will be able to face and easily argue against any and whatsoever collectivist-statist- wishful-thinking-idea based on their perceptions and visions of a non-existent reality -
Its quite sad to see such tribalistic viewing of questions and ideas in your comment. Every perspective is equally valuable because they might be relevant in diffrent situations.
@@gengl671 - ?? 'tribalistic' ... ??? and '... every perspective is equally valuable...' ?? Nope - a perspective that sees 2+2 = 5 is surely not equally valuable as the perspective 2+2 =4 on this planet and in this human reality - similarly, a perspective that considers economic fallacies as the basis for policy-making is not either equally valuable to one that is based on the reality of human existence.. and in this case, on the basic realities of 'Human Action', as they happen to be best described in the Austrian Economic perspectives -
Omg i'm so exited for this Podcast! This is a meeting of the minds! Austrian economics is inherently psychological, so from this connection true new understandings can arise!
@@jordanbpetersonforpresiden3073 Don't get me wrong. I really like Peterson and what he has been doing, but he is hardly a genius. In fact, he is way behind the knowledge curve. At least 80 years, but not nearly as far as most. I see him struggle in lectures. I mean that in a good and genuine way. A way your typical prof would never lower themselves too or admit. Peterson's undiscovered dilemmas regard his "positivist school of thought" thinking. He hasn't managed his way out of it. He hasn't yet realized that dilemma he faces regards the short-coming of his knowledge based that has already been dismounted; some 80-90 years ago. Peterson is a by product of the academic legacy of positivism and post positivism. He has not yet realized how much of what he knows is language-dependent. And that, is quite damning. What makes him good is that he is on the verge of discovering this, no doubt thanks to a certain vein of readings including Jung e.g. He needs to study more logic, philosophy of logic, and other greats like E. Cassirer, Brentano, Bolzano, C.S. Peirce, the Polish School, etc. God bless the man. I assume from his lecture performance that he is a rare honest man. He is a gem in these difficult and confusing times!
@@yeager6882 Ok, I think I understand your point. But I dont think its possible to be a genius and all aspects of life. But in his recpective feild i belive he is very insightful and he bring a unique percpective of level headedness and well rounded thinking, that is not typically seen out of Academia.
I sit at home casually watching two Genius level humans discussing important issues at great level of detail... for free... and they actually made that video SO I could watch it for free!!! Could the incentivizing of giving free goods to others as a mean of ensuring financial gain be the beginning of a capitalist utopia?!? Either way, thanks Jordan🙏🏻❤
@@TherealSakuraKei give it time - neurological stuff takes a long time to come back from & is harder to do so with age. Just compare this to his first video back and the difference is striking. I'm honestly really excited and bet the old jordan will be back before we know it - with a wealth of new experiences to draw from
We can hope Skeptik. His body of work up until when he became ill is already more than what you can reasonably expect from one person, quality-wise. My gratitude is such that I treat each contribution beyond 2020 as some miraculous bonus. Especially when it's free!
Happy to meet Dr Murphy ♡ Thanks for this wonderful discussion. Values are relative ☆ And some people do stock up and buy it all..... Like toilet paper in the US at the start of the last year.
Bob Murphy is great. One of the most fun people you can talk to about economics and not want your eyes gauged out.
Lol. 👍
I felt that 😄
i don’t agree with some of his views, but agreed
Austrian economics is much more fun than any other school.
Yeah between him and Tom Woods, both can give a lecture and have people rolling around the aisles laughing
im a teenager who lives in sri lanka, a small 3rd world island in south asia litarally thousands of miles away. will never see mr peterson in person. but im getting the opportunity to learn a full university course on human personality by the one of the gratest minds alive today.
thank you sir.
You can it's just little bit hard you island can be equal to Maldives or the palm Island of middle East you just have to work a little bit fast and more
You are a smart teen! Look up all of Dr. Peterson's videos -- 200 hours of free college level education.
ser wen lambo
Jordan Peterson is a Canadian national treasure for those of us in the know!
@@screwstatists7324 he’s living in India & probably speaks three languages!
How many languages do you speak & write?
“A horse, a horse! My kingdom for a horse!” Act-V, Scene-IV of William Shakespeare’s play, Richard III. This is an excellent example of how value may change depending on circumstances. Desire is the key.
Ok, King, if you sign here, you can have my horse ;-)
@@stanleyvandermeer fffñc
Only a subversive communist would ask is property theft.
Property means what is proper to you.
And nobody was willing to offer a horse at that price. You might call that situational aversion. 😉
🐎
I've always seen some Mises on Peterson's arguments. Libertarianism has a lot to do with personal responsibility. A lot of people think libertarianism is about free market, but free market is a consequence, not a basis.
@@ksNanoSquid I’m glad there’s Misesian strain of thought, and that there’s not just the beltway libertarian school of opinion.
I don't think there's much of Mises in JBP. Hopefully, there will be more after talking to Bob Murphy.
Libertarian is the non-aggression principle, that's pretty much it. Its not even about responsibility. You can be a raging bigot and be libertarian, you just can't initiate force or coercion. Voluntary interaction. And of a society ends up being socialist through voluntary interaction then so be it.
Also the left libertarians get it wrong. ALL libertarian is left. Always has been if you use the definitions from the 1700s. Socialism was originally the socialization of power to the consumer and the worker which was free market. Libertarian socialism is the socialization of power through non-aggression. One cannot use today's definition of socialism in libertarian socialism because its an oxymoron. Conglomerating power into a central authority through force is 100% opposite of libertarian.
@@luxinvictus9018 OMG, you don't want to be associated with ancaps, what a tragedy! How to keep living without another idiot that can't conceive a society with rules that are not set and/or enforced by the State?
@@luxinvictus9018 if you think personal responsibility through there is no state. Laws will always exist as they are a function of human action (there were always certain rules to abide by even during the hunter gatherer days of humanity. Written laws have existed without states, see the bible). Watch Hoppes private law society lecture for more info. And people that think there should be no laws are egoists and they are not ancaps.
“Choice” by Dr. Robert Murphy is very easy to read: no math, no obscure language, etc. It’s written very clearly in simple language anyone can understand without any prior knowledge of or interest in economics. I highly recommend it!
Economics is the result of humans actions you can't transform it into numbers.
@@thefredkalis nice picture my friend, my favorite flag colors. :)
It is an older book, but I always encourage people to read "The Worldly Philosophers" by Heilbroner. It is a historical look at economics through the framework of a brief biography of early practitioners. The language is very welcoming, and I learned a lot from it. It also helped me develop a good working relationship with my Econ prof, as I got to name-drop Thorstein Veblen in the class, which he said was the only time he had ever come across anyone not in t he field who knew who Veblen was.
@@thefredkalis praxiology can yield statistics though, which can have great benefit to study.
Yes!
It's amazing to see that Mises is being discussed by someone like Peterson, someone well known everywhere. I remember reading and learning Austrian economics just after the 08 crash and being imoressed at the insight but also disapointed about how little people knew about this school of thought. So glad after over a decade the word is getting out there.
Maybe it'll become mainstream after the next crash makes 08 look like child's play.
Bob Murphy influencing Peterson is what the world needs.
I couldn't believe this was real when I saw it! Too awesome.
When you take a glance at your phone giving you another notification.
“Oh it’s probably another email notification or something. Wait a-“
Right? Bob in front of 4 million subscribers? That is a win for liberty!
Amen brother
I don't see it as one influencing the other, I see both are truth seeker, and genuine knowledge lover. You can be an arrogant arse and holding on only to your opinion regardless the size of the truth you're carrying. We have a lot of them. But to see someone who humble enough to admit a greater truth and accept it, now that's rarely happened. That's the ethic educated people supposed to possess. That's the genuine motive to pursue knowledge.
Holy moly. This progression of topics and guests makes me very hopeful.
I think JP is trying to build a new educational institution with his podcast and Thinkspot. He can't teach any more so he's sort of lecturing and conversing with fellow professors whom he would perhaps hire if he were a dean.
Right? I was almost lost on JBP with no biblical lectures and a seeming distaste for "anarchy" or "decentralized security and freedom". But Bitcoin and an Austrian Economist are about the best dang pulls to get me back, lets go!!!!!!!!
The last 3 or 4 have been especially jolly.
@@SameBasicRiff the biblical lecture series was amazing. More knowledge = more freedom (to me anyways)
@@Abc89266 I think Bob was going to say malinvestment but must have decided against introducing a new term after two syllables. I wish Bob had been able to mention Murray Rothbard's criticism of Mises pragmatism but I guess that would have moved the conversation into the political realm when just explaining Austrian economics in 2:30 was an amazing feat in itself.
Dreams do come true! Jordan Peterson talking about Austrian Economics! My two favorite things come together. Despite all that's happening, this demonstrates that the world is moving in a good direction.
The Molecule FX boulder Maybe if you payed attention
????
Can we please see a discussion between Dr. Peterson and Thomas Sowell before it's too late?
Lol, for what party???
@@mlbonfox8199 Sowell is now 91, he's still smart as a whip and I think it would be a shame if these two great minds didn't at least have one conversation before it just physically can't happen anymore...
Spot on. What a conversation that would be ..
Yessssss
This must happen 🙏
I'm listening to Jordan Peterson discuss the Austrian business cycle. The simulation is officially real. And the good guys win.
Yea. This is a sign of a huge turn in the tides, culturally. The sense of anticipating the first few big waves to sweep over the cultural horizon isn’t a wrong impression here.
I agree 100%. Kind of got shivers when I saw this episode pop up. Austrian economics is the one piece of the puzzle Jordan hasn't really dug deeply into. He didn't even realize, maybe until now, how much his way of thinking lines up with the Austrian school of thought. Definitely a win for the good guys.
@@Hibernial Let's hope.
"The simulation is officially real." Soooo, it's not a simulation then.
@@richyrich3285 most people, deep down, are accidentally Christian Libertarians without realizing it
Has JP ever had a discussion with Thomas Sowell? That's an event I would drop everything on the day's agenda to watch.
That is a discussion I would pay money for.
@@psychcowboy1 did you actually listen to the man? I mean he is pretty critical of the rich vs poor narrative but it shouldn't have been that hard to see what he was getting at
@@psychcowboy1 peterson alone could fill a book or three.... Sowell could fill several as well, lol, bit Sowell for example pointed out sampling errors and biases in statistics often used to say that racism is running rampant, just to name one case
@@psychcowboy1 Hes never doubted inequality. Hes denied the medias claim about how distinct the lines are and the racism they claim.
If youve bothered to actually read his work youd know he says equality of outcome isnt possible, and that people with more valuable skills will almost always become wealthier.
@@psychcowboy1 Thats not mainstream thought though. Mainstream thought is that systemic racism and sexism is why people dont succeed/arent equal.
Saying the US/Western World is mostly merit based is actually controversial today.
If youre asking if Sowell has ever said something Nobel Prize worthy, then I would agree and say he hasnt. But hes stated basic facts and corrected mainstream thought in a very simple, yet eloquent way in his books. And that doesnt discredit Sowell's intelligence in any way, nor does that disprove anything hes said.
Its funny how you hold "right-wing" thought to a much higher standard to thought that conforms to your ideology. But then again, if you leftists didnt have double standards, you wouldnt have any standards at all.
When I saw this my jaw dropped. Peterson is awesome for having people on like this. He's the man!
I pinched myself a few times
Way cool how he validates then hones his arguments by distilling expert testimony.
This is like a crash course in economics. I've probably learnt more in these two and a half hours than I would have in an entire semester, and it's free!
Facts. Without discovering bitcoin, i would've never discovered austrian economics. Once one understands human action and the consequences associated with them, you won't see the world the same again.
Best I took away from a course in Economics was Laffer's curve. He studied tax rates and people's willingness to work and found if you raise taxes too high then people stop working (or go off the books), but if you leave them too low, the government doesn't get as much as it possibly can. (Kind of a shitty objective, but anyway, they write the laws)
So he made a graph and on the curve the ideal tax rate for the government is about 30%.
Those that depend upon taxes keep screaming to raise it though, since they don't do the actual work.
@@GregMoress Laffer's problem was that he wasn't Ancapistani....
@@GregMoress Yeh, Bill Gates is such a hard worker.. Or maybe he's just a thief..
@@bisiriyutajudeen5728 Have you ever had a job?
I love how you're introducing a bigger audience to austrian economics. It has great ideas but unfortunately not widely understood by the mainstream.
Worse, it is often intentionally "Kathy Newmaned" into a tortured caricature of its true self.
Please someone should dumb down "Discussing the idea that private property is theft..." Portion
@@psychcowboy1 that's very gracious of you, thanks. The timestamp is 1:08:30
@@psychcowboy1 Keynes was wrong.
@@psychcowboy1 Keynes was wrong.
I love this Dr. Robert Murphy guy. He was able to field some really tough questions. It's comforting to know that there's a diplomatic explanation of reality at any level of logic/debate.
If you want more you can go through the backlog of Contra Krugman episodes, but if that's too focused on economics for you you can always check out Murphy's own podcast in which he also discusses political events and philosophy besides economics.
@@psychcowboy1 No. So please, o wise one, let us gather at YOUR feet so we can scratch some crumbs of knowledge from your bountiful intellect. Dolt.
@@psychcowboy1 the more you troll the more obvious it is you feel threatened by ideas that will prove you wrong.
@@psychcowboy1 It depends I see you on all the comment replies so I would like to ask you what ideas you disagree with? To get a better understanding about your viewpoint.
@@psychcowboy1 Their vocabulary usage is intelligent. You have to be more precise. What arguments do you have to offer as a rebutle to what they provided here?
Ownership endows a sense of responsibility. Without individual property, you rely on collective responsibility which unfortunately isn’t a compelling force. Very insightful discourse. Thanks JP
Collective action is literally the reason for your rights
How does ownership endow responsibility? Bp dumps oil into the Ocean, big pharma gets half the American public hooked on heroin, the drug war is run to propagate large scale prisons. All businesses are motivated by the acquisition of private property. Regulations endows responsibility because there are consequences.
@@veryfitting What do you mean by that?
@@johnekopy without the collective action against the British crown, the America we know today probably wouldn't have existed. The constitution is a collective statement that the individuals within the collective of America are free with reasoning and further statements as to why.
@@veryfitting Fair enough and I think I agree with your statement, but (playing a bit of devil's advocate), couldn't someone also make the argument that if it wasn't for each man (or woman) doing their individual part and choosing to fight, that the collective wouldn't exist.
I'm still working all this out and trying to understand each viewpoint, so bear with me.
These men are two of my favorite people, ever. Wonderful episode.
Study interest rates through Austrian economics.
We're slowly watching Dr. Peterson become a Rothbardian. I love it!
HUZZAH!
A Petersonian-Rothbardian so to speak
@@TheCruxy Peterbardian?
Yikes
@@BradTrapp Petardian? May be too iffy lest someone give the P a leg and make it into an R.
I have had an affinity for libertarianism and the Austrian school of economics for about ten years, and I got into Peterson's work about 5 years ago. I am very happy to find that these two realms of interests in my life are interacting.
Amen!
Me too.
I quite agree.
You're not very perceptive. 😅 No offense.
Gotta echo the "not very perceptive" comment, oddly, since you perceptibly found great things. It's been obvious imo that Austrian Econ and particularly Freedom is missing from Peterson's analysis. I stopped following him for that reason, but this is a coming to knowledge that the perceptive could see coming from miles away, imo.
Hearing JBP talking about von Mises and the Austrian School gives me goosebumps!
Great!!!
*Thanks for the feedback~~~I have something I'll love to introduce to you feel free to chat me immediately for more Enlightenment.
📤𝟹𝟶𝟻𝟹𝟹𝟺𝟺𝟽𝟼𝟽
"Is property theft?" is something of an oxymoron because theft is impossible without property.
I was ‘without property’ because of theft. The theft left me ‘without property’.
Not only that, how can one steal what belongs to everyone? Theft is essentially a denial of property and logic.
If the legitimate owner is the collective and an individual privatizes ie monopolizes the resource to his own use, I think is how the theory goes, not that I agree with it.
@@jeanlamontfilms5586 I think that in a collective ownership situation, the individual steals by monopolizing ie privatizing and taking the resource out of public circulation. The books at the public library belong to everyone, but if I take them home and never bring them back then I'd be stealing from the community. Not that I'm a communist. But that's how I would argue the case.
@@thomasfells I like your examples. Seems like stealing from a library and monopolizing both require abandoning logic.
first there was malice and anarchism, then sound money and the bitcoiners, and now austrian economics and bob murphy. this is an important path you are pursuing, dr peterson. keep digging, this rabbit hole is deep. 👍✌
what do u think will be next?
@@sadhu7191 Tom Woods?
Yea, I love Malice and JBP. But I don't think they were at their best in that interview (despite it being fantastic!). They might have gotten off on the wrong foot- I really hope we get another interview now that the introductions are out of the way.
@@Abc89266 I think he's about to say "because of the malinvestment," but then changes course and explains it with different words.
@@Abc89266 That doesn't make any sense, but whatever floats your boat :)
I did not know what to expect with this JP interview with Dr Murphy. It has surprised me by being one of the most informative interviews I have had the pleasure of listening to, ever!
Austrian economics puts the philosophy of classical liberalism into action and makes it understood in application. Love Mises. Great to see it mentioned on JP.
@@psychcowboy1 Yes. They generally do....
@@psychcowboy1 why even click on his video if you have no intention of watching it?
@@psychcowboy1 cant answer my question?
@@psychcowboy1 the "wealthy" as you claim, for the most part, werent wealthy in their early days. In fact, 70%+ of millionnaires are self made. So your whole premise is flawed. Being wealthy isnt natural. Unless you are a part of the minority who inherited their wealth, you had to work to get rich.
Plus, your "response" doesnt even cover the quote you put. Go learn a thing or two about capitalism before you vomit your anti-wealth fabricated lies. Cheer.
@@psychcowboy1 i just did. Facts. 70% of millionnaires are self made. That means Greed is already being taken care of. Most fortunes are gone within 3 generations. Greed dries them up, and the money they spent goes back into circulation. This is called fact.
If you are greedy and want to be rich, you HAVE to make your money available. Unless you pillage, there is no other way. To make the money available, you lend it to an entrepreneur, home buyer, invest into someone, create jobs yourself...
There are no rich people that keep their money under their mattress,wich would be the problem of greed. As long as the money circulate, everybody profits off it. As they say, someone has the build the lamborghinis.
This episode is over 2 hours long and has only been out for 5 minutes. Someone gave it a thumbs down without listening. Whoever you are, you are the one who really needs to listen.
Maybe you just dislike so you could write the comment. You postmodernism neo Nazi sunshine
Interesting. There are no thumbs down but a few thumbs-up now. I love Bob and have known him for years so broke protocol and face an up before listening myself. 😉
People can be quite tribal, and some have no problem going out of their way to try to cast aspersions at those they disagree with or are offended by. Some people, once they decide they like or hate someone, they go out of their way to demonstrate that.
I agree, but it applies to thumbs up as well, doesn't it?
@@timmyboy2001 Some thumbs up when they like the person, others when they like the points made. So, yes, it can be that way, I think.
In California and much of the USA we have this very big problem, where even if you bought outright your own house and property or land, the government can take it from or kick you off of your own property. I know many people who were made homeless because they couldn’t get the permits for their own property. I myself bought a mobile home but wasn’t allowed to put it anywhere because it was older, and was having to live in my car.
You can no longer do what you want with your own house or property or land, even if it doesn’t hurt anyone else. A lot of people are homeless now because they can’t afford the high rent costs and it’s illegal to live in their mobile or RVs.
It artificially increased rent prices through excessive regulation and with it, extreme homeless crisis. I wish there was more discussion on this so that people wouldn’t be homeless even if they paid for land or a mobile home or RV just because of state regulations.
The circle JP is surrounding himself with for these podcasts are the seeds of a cultural renaissance.
Imagine them coming together to form the new decentralized institutions that teach future generations individual liberty, science, technology, sound money, good architecture, permaculture, high art etc
Drowned out under all the noise of the herded radical left and right is a sleeping giant and this is what it's manifesting.
True freedome created by very true humans...
Maybe we are living through the prequel of that future Story?
Cult
That's the only hope I have for my children.
cringe
Yeah, it's a real shame that the'll all be shipped off to the gulag, or shot, when the Neo-Marxians take over with their shitty ideas.
This is epic. Bob Murphy is the poster child for "low key" epic. Mild mannered dude, with super human knowledge of economics.
I'd kill to see JP talk with Hans Hermann Hoppe!
Edit: SO TO SPEAK!
I always crack up that two of the most famous anarchists in modern times are Bob Murphy and Tom Woods. Two very calm and sweet balding older men that you could never imagine are such "radicals"
mild mannered? you clearly haven't seen him in his Wolverine outfit
It’s not only the superhuman knowledge that makes him great. It’s also his impressive ability to articulate it well
The hidden truths are the most valuable || WE GREAT MEN
Watching JP work through some of these things out loud was utterly brilliant.
Honestly half the time I was thinking he understands Bob's theory better than the author.
@@psychcowboy1 Did you in your entire life?
@@psychcowboy1 About as intelligent as Newtonian physics is intelligent, meaning not to you.
@@psychcowboy1 Should've written your own economic theory then, I'm not their spokesperson, go talk shit to them.
@@psychcowboy1 You want a timestamp for a zinger? Go watch a comedy skit.
Incredible. I would never have expected Professor Peterson to be talking to Bob Murphy.
I was very surprised and pleased also!
@@psychcowboy1 no. They ARE both way above average smart.
@@psychcowboy1 You must be the “real” smart guy.
@@LarsAndersenFrihed It would be amazing if Professor Peterson went further down this road. His prominence would spark a lot of interest into austrian economics.
@@psychcowboy1 what a fascinating creature you are. You made a video dissing him 2 years ago and yet here you are, perusing the comment section on a video of his.
Book to read: Socialism - An economic and sociological analysis by Ludwig Von Mises. First German edition 1922 - English 1932. The modernity of his thinking is mind-boggling. You want to be slapped in your face to wake up, read that book. The chapter "Destructionism" is just ...
Thank you for the tip. :)
This. Mises essentially predicted the economic collapse of the Soviet Union *decades* before it happened, because centrally planned economies are inherently unsustainable since they cannot calculate rapidly changing and diverse consumer demand. Put simply -- they didn't have a functioning price system. Without a functioning price system, you cannot accurately judge consumer demand. If you cannot accurately judge consumer demand, then you tend to under-produce things people need *and* over-produce things people don't need. It was not a coincidence that Soviet grocery stores were virtually empty, but at the same time they had entire warehouses, silos, and hangars full of military goods.
To Mises, this was the inevitable end of any centrally planned economy. They don't last; and only through sheer force of violence and coercion can they last as long as they do.
@@persona-non-grata centrally planned economies differ very little from traditional slavery
@@persona-non-grata thank you
Noted!
My face lit up when I saw this suggestion. I had the pleasure of meeting Bob Murphy (he was Bob then) 20 years ago at the Mises institute while he was still a doctoral student at NYU. I found him to be friendly and brilliant. I haven't seen him since but it was wonderful to see him blossom, so to speak, both intellectually and professionally. This was a real pleasure to watch. Thank you for publishing this!
I can't wait until Tom Woods gets on this podcast. Michael Malice, now Bob Murphy, what a treat!
Why take on FM Sr persona?
Check out Stephan Kinsella on intellectual property
@@bizzzzzzle why assume I'm just a persona
Having Tom on to discuss his "How the Church built Western Civilisation" series would be beyond unreal.
Jeff Deist would be good too. But Woods would be stellar...
I love the variety of the subjects addressed in those podcasts. It continually amazes me, how one person can make so much sense :D Salute from Poland 🇵🇱🦞
I can totally relate dude, this was probably the best spent 2,5 hours this year.
So amazing to hear Austrian Economics getting popular! Jordan, you are a true delight.
Despite knowing pretty much everything Bob was going to say in advance, he always articulates it so well and with such precision that I'm blown away by it. Simply brilliant.
Well he handled this stuff basically his whole adult working life. He is probably the best economist alive. He is a real treasure!
Bob is great. He navigated this discussion professionally, allowed Jordan to digest his talking points and interjected to keep focus on the teachings of Mises. Well done.
JBP has many analogies to Hayek in my opinion. Hayek actually started out learning psychology before he went into economics. Hayek’s father and brother were evolutionary biologists, which also had an effect on his thinking. In the end, I see both Hayek and JBP building a model of naturally evolving emergent orders grounded in human psychology.
certainly, especially in his book the sensory order
Read Mises "Human Action" for more enlightment.
@@wiskybiskits
Definitely. Would definitely recommend JBP reading that. Didn’t want to drag everyone too far into the weeds until they asked to be though 😉
That’s all true. What I love about Mises is how he isolates they study of economics from psychology. There’s no denying that psychology is critical in the choices we make. Though it’s also true that there is a lot to know about how to manage scarcity (in abstract) that has nothing at all to do with psychology and is just fundamental to the nature of human action as such.
@@BraunBuxe lol human action is incredibly overrated
Great talk! You guys covered 1) marginal value theory, 2) socialist calculation problem, 3) interest as time preference, and 4) Austrian Business Cycle Theory. I think Bob might have missed an opportunity to discuss Mises' Regression Theorem of Money when the subject of Bitcoin was highlighted, but overall Bob did a great job being a spokesman for the Austrian School of Economics.
Looking at your profile picture i wonder how much time it will take for JBP have a paleo-libertarian on the show, imagine Hoppe talking to Peterson hahaha
Austrian economics has a very surprising and wonderful relationship with what Jordan Peterson teaches. The intersectionality will be on multiple levels and be tangible, as compared to the vapid and unsustainable intersectionality of woke theory.
The extreme individualism is a common factor for both. I think they are both missing a dimension. The Austrian ant would be slacking off, but he isn’t.
I might be the only person to think this, but what I got from this video is that the more Jordan Peterson learns about economy the farther towards pristine Marxist theory he leans. Purely materialistically, just so we're clear, woke stuff is a complete misappropriation of thinking used in that theory.
@@psychcowboy1 Say what you will about the Austrian school, they know how to break down the system into exploitable bits.
@@psychcowboy1 That depends, Austrian school didn't pop into existence last spring.
@@psychcowboy1 You know what's not insightful to me? Calculus. Does that mean Isaac Newton was a basic bitch?
Ron Paul introduced me to Austrian economics back in 2008. It was my first redpill, and the knowledge I gained has helped me navigate truth in politics, history and psychology. Cool to see Dr Peterson learning this stuff.
Same here man 🙋♂️
I am unable to express in words how grateful I am that this conversation took place and that I was able to entertain.
This is a wonderful follow up in having another conversation with an anarchist after the episode with interviewing Michael Malice.
Bob is the best. He will make people rethink there preconceived notions of what an anarchist is
@@brokenone22 It was a chore albeit understandable to go through comments on his Malice interview that voiced impressions of anarchists being synonymous with Antifa.
And here’s Bob Murphy. Hopefully thoughts if not minds will change.
i remember working hospitality at the front desk... we always joked that our General Manager only read books under his desk all day. A few years later I became the GM, and I still get a laugh at how silly it was to think the 'suits' didn't earn their salaries. There was SO much to do.. Different things entirely that were important to keeping the business running smoothly. Anyway... something in this episode made me want to share.
Well said.
I see, very often now, the argument that landlords are parasites who contribute nothing of value and merely exploit renters. There exists a willfull blindness to the value of the management of resources, material and human.
Not to mention the risk of investment and the associated sacrifice and self-discipline exercised in order to build capital for investment.
Im not a landlord, but i hope with hard work and frugality to become one.
If you're reading all the comments I appreciate you Bob Murphy. You are perhaps the best teacher of all time 🤙
You should read Hans Herman Hoppe, he lays out probably the most thorough defense of the notion that human rights are necessarily a derivative of property rights ever put to paper in The Economics and Ethics of Private Property.
Thanks for the suggestion!
I am not an anarchist, I am a statist. I believe there is a role for government to play in society. Namely, force people to read Hoppe.
I am endorsing the Hoppe suggestion, so to speak.
Don't scare the plebes with anarchism!
I'm currently reading it but in my experience it requires a little background on both mises AND Kant. Now, maybe I'm not literate enough in english to understand it however i had that experience of having to read both of them at least a little.
Respect to Dr. Peterson for bringing in one of the best Austrian economists alive at the moment. Bob isn't just a solid econ guy but he's also a really good dude. Probably couldn't have chosen a better person to represent Mises. Wish there were a little Rothbard in there as well but its all good.
Read Chaos Theory and get back to me.
JBP has had some interesting discussions, but so far, this one has triggered more insights for me than all the rest. Awesome job JBP!!
This conversation is like Christmas in August!
It’s settled. Christmas is in August now. Also in whatever month Bob Murphy gets invited on big podcasts.
So true!
Damn, I mised Christmas
Jordan, it really seems as if your best guests and best podcasts are those where you are attempting to flesh out certain concepts and where those particular guests have some expertise in the related areas. This is a great discussion, and a productive one. I always know it's a good meaty session when it's 2.5hrs. It means there was a proper balance in exchange and no shortage of material.
This is the first time I've heard the idea that we calculate value "on the margin". I think it's incredibly insightful.
same. that was eye opening
Please can someone tell me what they are saying in ordinary-people-speak?
@@psychcowboy1 right. Thanks... But the comment made by this guy, Mark O, stating "we calculate value 'on the margin'". What does it mean?
@@psychcowboy1 I see. alright, I have a question for you. Should land be a commodity to be bought and sold?
@@psychcowboy1,
You are delusional if you believe these concepts are common knowledge... or that everyone has figured it all out... because the public certainly doesn't seem to know enough about it to raise objections to the politicians that push policy contrary to what promptes healthy economic relationships... politicians who may or may not be sufficiently educated on the subject themselves.
I see your comments throughout this thread... and you like to talk big... but I'm calling your bluff. Dispense with the character attacks, and articulate some cases of where and how the Austrian economic school of thought fails.
As a student of both economics and Jordan Peterson, I enjoyed this podcast more than most.
Certainly not on the quantitative end, but his philosophical knowledge and psychological intuition provide great understanding at the most fundamental levels of economics.
yeah ur not gunna see much maths and positivism done by austrians. austrians recognise economics as a social science in which praxeological deduction is used rather than forms of positivism
Sincere critique --
Jordan, you have to let people finish their thought before you jump in with a segway to a long thought. Sometimes you're letting you're mind get carried away and being unfair to your guest. I know your thoughts must go a million miles a minute (and I've got you on double-speed!) but you HAVE TO be more attentive to the conversation and let the guest's responses breathe for a second. You cut this guy of many times and we lost his answer to the question along the way.
You have to listen more carefully and allow your guest room to complete his response.
Much respect! ♡
I agree. This is the only thing about Jordan that I find annoying.
@@Dev-zr8si He's still on some "medications."
I do not agree. Peterson always lets his guests finish an idea and Peterson's interjections are always relevant.
@@paulrath7764 no, he doesn't ALWAYS let guests get their full thoughts out. And certainly not in this specific interview. I'm not saying this to be mean -- he's only human.
He's usually pretty good about it (and I would never claim his interjections are irrelevant), i just notice that sometimes he gets a little excited...
Like when he asks his guest to expand on a point and then, for example, should a word (than the audience may not be familiar with) come up, he jumps in again to get a definition, but he then forgets to allow the guest to circle back to finish up the answer he began before Jordan interrupted. Honestly, Peterson is just a much faster thinker and speaker than most people.
I think some guests are good about making sure they are able to finish their thought, but others are likely a little intimidated (or get lost in all the tangents, perhaps) and we sometimes dont get back to the original question.
I just think he's got do much swirling in his head that he just digs and digs and digs and sometimes loses track of where it began.
He is havng these conversations for himself, to learn, as he's often stated, so maybe its an unfair critique in that sense, but I do think he could (maybe should) work at keeping the conversation clear for the audience who is not in his head with him (so to speak), and who want to follow along.
Ive heard him say, and I think we can all agree, that it is important to be present and to be intently, intentionally listening, not just waiting for the other person to finally shut up so you can jump in again. We all do that lol.
I really admire and respect Dr Peterson, and this is just a sincere, well-intentioned criticism meant to alert him to something very minor, but that I think noone has brought up to him (recently, at least).
Cheers! 🦞
@@chrisc1257 that's fair to bring up, for sure. And I absolutely don't mean my comments to be rude, or uncivil or anything like that. It's just a gentle critique. And you're right, he's still got a lot going on. I've got total sympathy for that.
I just really believe that if someone mentioned it, he would watch himself and if he agreed, he'd be like,
"Oh shit, you know what, you might be right.
I just get excited and have so many questions lol
But yeah, I hear ya. I'll keep an eye out for that in the future."
Totally cool 😎 as always.
Cheers!
Exceptional short course on Austrian economics. Peterson does a phenomenal job of relating the Austrian school to many issues from "systemic racism" to interest rates.
This was great. I'd love to see Thomas Sowell on the podcast next!
omg the universe would explode
Oh yes this must happen
@@Sincerely_MrX was about to post that my head would explode lol.
Me too! Halfway through this conversation I had the overwhelming urge to speak to my computer, as if I was talking to Jordan, to tell him that he needs to put Sowell's "Knowledge and Decisions" at the top of his reading list.
@@jotakami That's a good one! I think it's one of his less well known books but it's incredible
This kind of gave me a different outlook on my life. I always feel like I should do more. Never happy with where I'm at. When you pointed out you can't do or know everything, I felt that in my heart. I have been feeling like a failure. So many things I need to do. So many things weighing me down. Sometimes just starting with making my bed is making more sense now. I can't just do all these things that want to do all at once. And I need to take one step at a time and not be ashamed of that. It feels like most times I'm not living but just putting out fires but I still dream. I sometimes feel a sense of accomplishment. But I always want to learn and grow. This was great. Thank you!
I can’t relate to this SO HARD. I am a Renaissance man of sorts - but it comes at the cost of formal accomplishment and earning more money. Hearing him say that also made me feel better about specializing more and being a bit more practical.
Can*
Best of luck to you brother, I believe in you.
Would have liked to hear Robert speak to the end of his thoughts more consistently. I think that JP and all of us listening would have benefitted more this way.
@@Abc89266
"Mal-investment"
"Mal-in" for short.
Best interview so far. Bob is a great economist and teacher, hopefully talking to JBP will bring his thinking to a lot more people.
24:00 yes Unions are the biggest pushers of minimum wage. The union members are never paid minimum wage - but it drives out lower wage competition that competes for the union member jobs.
They also push to abolish "sweat shops" for the same reason.
Low wage competition in foreign countries.
If you think sweat shops are bad and you can stand listen to this interview without shutting it off in horror, you should look up Benjamin Powell on sweatshops. He will at least make you doubt your assessment of them.
@@Hashishin13 better to say sweat shops are less than ideal but better than the alternative and to hope those nations that have them transition through that stage of economic growth as rapidly as possible.
@@renaissancestatesman And without starving because some moral busybody thinks they know better.
I just started listening to Bob Murphy’s podcast and it’s great. If you like Tom Woods then Bob Murphy is the podcast for you
Peterson taking the Austrian pill makes Peterson arguments moving forward damn close to invincible.
Exactly!
You may be correct
views on this doubled during the time I spent watching it. This is amazing! So happy to see Bob Murphy get the opportunity to explain these things to this audience and make people aware of the virtues of the Austrian school.
I'm just upset that I found Jordan Peterson so late in my life. Beside Christopher Hitchens & Douglas Murray...Jordan Peterson is one of the greatest mind of our time. I'm at awe at Jordan's intellectual around human nature...and the facts of life. GOOD God I'M SO UPSET AT MYSELF! Thank you! NEW SUB!
Always love hearing from Bob Murphy. I hope Peterson continues to have more Austrians on.
Before listening: This is the interview I have been waiting for - having studied Hayek for years, I hear so much of what Hayek said in terms of complexity and emergent order in what Peterson has been saying for a long time...
After listening: Indeed, this conversation was well worth the wait, but I think that Dr. Murphy could have done a better job in regards to making some points... Specifically, in regards to the minimum wage topic, he could have brought up Bastiat's "That which is Seen, and That which is Unseen" to illustrate the unforeseen consequences of policy decisions...
I am glad he obliquely referenced "The Pretense of Knowledge", but he could have also mentioned "The Fatal Conceit" and the notion of the two distinct - and largely conflicting - moral inheritances of which we are the beneficiaries; namely, the morality of the family and the small village and the morality of the extended order... The former, being more instinctive and deeply encoded, is why collectivist ideologies strike a resonate chord, while the latter is more of a learned, cultural inheritance...
I am glad Peterson explicitly touched on the evolutionary character of social institutions - this idea of spontaneous, emergent order is crucial to explaining the durability of things like moral systems, language, law and other complex orders that arise from our actions but not our design... In this light, I wish Dr. Murphy had been more explicit in terms of making the case for individual liberty as a catalyst for allowing established orders and institutions to evolve and adapt...
When they were discussing wealth inequality as a driving force behind innovation, my mind went immediately to "The Creative Power of a Free Civilization" from Hayek's The Constitution of Liberty... That chapter maps precisely to the points and observations made during that part of the conversation...
One extraordinary thing that Hayek did in TCOL was to distinguish between merit and value - Jordan eventually gets to this point when he talks about "functional utility" around the 2:06:00 mark... In TCOL, chapter 6 is entitled, " Equality, Value, and Merit"... In this, Hayek points out that reward according to merit must mean, in practice, reward according to "assessible" merit - merit that others can recognize and agree upon... This, of course, leads to the fact that the assessment of merit is inherently subjective... The objective measure of one's contribution is the value of the result - the functional utility of the contribution, as Peterson suggests... In other words, we are not rewarded for the effort we put forth in doing a valuable thing - we are rewarded for the value itself... This is a crucial distinction that Hayek thoroughly elucidates in the referenced text...
Overall, it was wonderful to hear someone explicitly mention Hayek and Mises to Jordan; that said, I would have rather had Don Boudreaux or Russ Roberts involved in this discussion...
Yes, I also think he said little about ethics. JP should invite Hoppe
I loved your comment. I actually took note of those chapters to read, and apply them to my consulting on Market-Based Management regarding rewards/compensation/incentives.
Excellent summary of some pretty critical omissions, I agree.
Personally, I felt much frustration at the lack of any discussion as to what makes ethical and just property rights.
I know Mises was a utilitarian and didn't really venture into the philosophy of property, but JP's insistent digging for 'first principles', as well as a philosophy to 'get the kids excited politically' was a real missed opportunity from Murphy.
Human rights, free speech, free markets, all thoroughly defendable only via an understanding of Lockean property theory, as espoused so elegantly and convincingly by Rothbard.
It's great seeing Peterson making Murphy's mind work to come up with an explanation. This truly is fantastic to see Jordan pressing Bob to help the audience get some learning out of this.
Hey Mr. Peterson.
If you may consider talking to "Hans Hermann Hoppe". He might be the worlds most influential living Austrian economist.
He has a way of explaining things extremely detailed.
This would be my dream podcast/interview ever!
That would be awesome!
That would be amazing. Great suggestion!
Jordan and Hoppe having a conversation would probably be my favorite piece of media in human existence
@@305Independent same! :)
Hoppe really is a giant of a thinker, and i think a society of private voluntary security and justice fits Peterson better than the hobbesian enforced state which he mostly agrees with because he's more of a conservative.
Austrian Economics is primarily about behavior and choices far more than it is about money. Money is but one of the metrics that proceed from individual and collective behavior.
well for economic analysis, the method of course is a uniform application that remains consistent regardless of time and location, and we see the emergence of money come out of cooperation and interaction of individuals
I was thrilled to see Bob Murphy on your podcast! You won’t find anyone better to explain Austrian economics.
Wow, Bob Murphy is a great guest!
Agreed!
I've always found that those who consider property to be theft are those who have none but desperately wish for yours to be liberated from you and 'redistributed' in a way in which they believe to be fair. Therefore, as soon as someone says that property is theft I conclude that I'm dealing with a thief or a coward who desires the state act on their behalf as a thief. What really perplexes me is how these same people can look at you with a straight face and claim some sort of moral high ground.
Cognitive dissonance is a powerful force.
There are interesting subtleties around voting and property ownership. Damn the torpedoes, lol.
@@curtisvalle5141 personally I'm against forced collectivism from a philosophical standpoint. What voting does is give me a tiny voice about issues that others find important. I am very seldom given a chance to say, "No." I am given a choice about candidates who will all fund services which I did not request and will never use with money which will be collected from me by force. You know, greater good.
Mr Jordan Peterson. I thank you and appreciate you for your insight and knowledge. Ever since listening to your videos and podcasts, I’ve been challenging myself to be a better man for myself and for those around me. You have a great and positive effect for people like me. I am more grateful to you than you’ll ever know.
It's really cool to see how JBP's approach which focuses bit more on the psychological side of human economic behaviour and the Austrian approach which analyses humans purely through their actions converge to a high degree in their conclusions
Austrians also study action as such - the study of action itself in abstract: Praxeology. I consider that to be their primary epistemological contribution to the study of the management of scarcity.
"I don't know how Marx was able to get away with that."
Yes, you do. Bitterness and resentment, as you well know, are lenses through which all people are susceptible to looking.
Only a matter of time before the dots connect at this point.
time stamp please?
@@fukpoeslaw3613 around 43 or 44 minutes in
@@imsoboredrightnowlol thank you
I'm not sure I follow.
I'm reading your book Beyond Order, I've read up to chapter two now, and I'm thrilled, got goosebumps at chapter two. Your writing is amazing
The point that hit me the most was "you own your own labor, so you also own anything that you trade that labor for."
It really breaks down ownership to something from the state of nature and not anything to do with a particular economic system.
Exactly. Because the concept of property begins with ones self. The non-recognition of that fact is what tends to lead to the decay of society.
Imho property is smth basic and essential to life itself. It’s only during our « modern era » due to economic dynamics that this very notion has been so twisted and perverted
@@dominostimes2119 to some extent, but for example native americans didnt have a concept of owning land.
@@dominostimes2119 to some extent, but for example native americans didnt have a concept of owning land.
@@psychcowboy1 Either way each person will stay in his own thinking corridor instead of adopting a holistic POV
I've been waiting for this for MONTHS.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I'm a little excited about this.
Did you catch Bob's podcast from early Covid and is about the supply chain and the effects the lockdown would have. It's great!
@@bitcoinbelle No I didn't. But I'm sure it was great.
That was an absolutely amazing conversation. I had a basic understanding of economics and how things work in the market, but hearing it explained on that level of detail was extraordinary.
To learn free-market economics is to discover that the giant "Help People" button everyone wants to push actually hurts people. The annoying part is then trying to explain to everyone why you are not an ass for no longer wanting that button pushed.
Well said. Did you think of that illustration yourself, or discover it somewhere?
A bit reductive, but I understand what you mean. I used to be very liberal, but I learned what externalities are, and knowing the concept that anything can have unintended consequences seems to be incongruous with being liberal
parends67 It might be annoying to you because anyone intelligent listening to you won't buy it. Believe me, it's more annoying having to listen to people like you rationalize their moral indifference as being something other than that--especially when you're the person who actually needs help. I've seen this same behavior continually throughout my life. Yeah, helping people is bad; not helping people is what actually helps them. How much of a contrarian nitwit do you have to be to say things like this and believe them?
@@crowstakingoff This is exactly what I mean.
Right; you presume that you are not an ass, and that other people need to understand this. But your first premise, that you are not an ass, is most likely false, and any attempt to operate from that premise is corrupted by extension.
I would give my left leg to see a two and half to three hour discussion between Peterson and Sowell
Milton Freeman .. Check him out ,,,,
@@lostinspace699 I think you mean Friedman, whom I am very aware of.
@@Jerkasaur yes
@@psychcowboy1 did you watch the podcast?
@@psychcowboy1 communism’s is detrimental to your health.
Dr. Peterson, I have so enjoyed listening to the multitude of your lectures and podcasts. You are very and very truly and inspirational character of our times. I cannot deny that you are a tried and true deeply well read intellectual force of these past two centuries. The theme that keeps arising in my viewings of your oratories is simply this. I truly love how you challenge the left especially the extreme left and what you delve into as postmodernism. I think the way you disappoint me is that you react so violently diametrically opposed. So for example your arguments as compelling as they are and as triumphantly are backed by literature from the past. Why can't you find a middle ground between postmodernism or neo-Marxism as you say and the far right . You haven't convinced me that you're not a puppet for the far right or perhaps you haven't fleshed out your thoughts and ideal ideologies enough to know that perhaps there's a place from them somewhere in between the two polarities. Just a thought just saying lol and by the way I think you're fine as hell and if you weren't married to that lovely lady oh my God would love to spend the afternoon in bed with you Just saying have a nice evening 🤗
Jordan Peterson bringing attention to Austrian Economics is just a dream come true. Yeeeaahhhhh budddyyy
This was a delightful listen - Peterson loves to drill down to the bottom for cause & effect - Murphy gives the example or analogy to the core question - Enlightening ...
That is exactly what puts JP at a level where no one comes even close and why liberals attack him. When you pay close attention you will find that most people and organizations will only pay attention and argue issues to a level that suits them and go along with their agenda. To drill deep down brings out undeniable truth and that blows a lot of ideas and agendas out of the water. JP goes so deep that it frightens certain groups and therefore they attack him so fiercly.
@@psychcowboy1 how do you define “smart” here? What smart thing would you like to see in this conversation? The only reason I am asking you this is that I know people listen/read and understand on different levels therefore they have different opinions and by trying to understand someone else opinion we learn from each other. I am not argumentative by asking you these questions. I genuinely whantto know.
Rubbish. The core of the work they were challenging, the Marxism, is Origin of the Family. They didn't even mention it. Being anti Marxist without any focus on Origin of Family is as bad as being Marxist without focusing on it. When I got to the end of the Origin part of the work, or slightly after, I stopped reading it.
It quickly became the old rally of empire, who was a good Jew and who was a bad one, basically. Marxism was supposed to be about equality of the species. Why the xBLEEPx does nobody on either side of a Marxist debate even MENTION that any more. It's like a bible without a beginning.
@@psychcowboy1 well by all means, take peterson on, tough guy 🤣
@@psychcowboy1 my initial comment was regarding JP and his ability to drill so deep to causes and effect of people’s behaviour and therefore his ability to then understand where that will lead. I mentioned liberals, in this case journalists, who totally do not understand his level of understanding human behaviour and therefore do not understand or see the truth in what he is explaining.
Acknowledging the risk of sounding dramatic- You have been a huge inspiration to me, and your courage in standing by your principles in spite of the attacks on your character has made you one of my Heroes. I hope you get to resume some type of tours one day, I would love to shake your hand. Additionally, I’m glad to see that your health seems to have improved.
Anatomy of the state by Murray Rothbard should be high school reading.
It would be beneficial to the students, but detrimental to the government. The government isn't interested in doing what's best for students
Government want most productivity out of people wile giving them the least expensive food. And don't want free thinking people or people getting ill.
It *should*, but show it to your kids yourself, won't be shown at a school lmao
If you think that any book "should" be high-school reading then you didn't understand "Anatomy of the state"...
@@adelsasumi I don't think it violates libertarian principles to say "should". "Mandatory", on the other hand, wouldn't be good.
This is such a great interview. To hear all these foundational and fundamental economic theories be discussed in such a large forum. To hear Ludwig von Mises get the recognition his discoveries deserves, after first withstanding the test of time. This has to be a turning point. The only other person who would be nearly as great as this is Soho Forum, Director, Gene Epstein.
Jeffrey Epstein would be a fun convo too lol 🤣
i wish Rothbard was still alive, but Jordan would never be the same if he talked to Hoppe.
Thank you so much for giving Austrian economics some limelight, it is heavily needed in the current economic environment. People really need to know economics subject so that they can see the things the way they are.
Theft is the action of taking property against the will of the property owner. Asking if property is theft is the same as asking if life is murder.
Ya I wonder if that was a typo
More like asking if life imprisonment or life employment is murder. Your example suggests that all things are always owned. Claiming public property is theft. Claiming anything in pre-migration America(drawing the line at Columbus) would have been theft. Since the natives didn't believe in property, all ownership was public, and shared.
So, what if you're in a primitive communism culture? Since you can use anything available, as a member of the tribe, by claiming property you aren't saying "I can use this", you already could, you're saying " I will no longer allow any of you to use it." So yeah; you would be taking from others to claim something. The exception would be if you lived in a world that believes everything is already property, but to evaluate the concept of property in such a world is like defining light, as opposed to darkness, while living in the center of the sun.
Not if you're a mutualist.
It's a quote from french economist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (1809-1865) _"La propriété c'est le vol"_
But it's been misinterpreted by many, notably by Marx and his followers. In fact, it should be understood as "wage-employment is theft".
@@bonroidagobert1640 isn't be also referring to land ownership as well?
The physical home is a sanctuary, having paid several different entities monies for paperwork, inspections etc. Then after the home purchase the property, poss mortgage and other taxes give "skin in the game" building accountable responsibility. Point being I'd trade most everything inside my home if it meant staying in my home.
Saw a post the other day that said “Packing is a neat way to discover you hate everything you own.” I’m in the process of this now, and after renting for 7 years, it’ll feel good to own my place. My mortgage is lower, and while I’ll have more responsibility, at least I have a shot at building some equity. The beautiful thing about stuff is when we realize we don’t need so much of it. Downsized to 1250 sf and it’s become easy to purge. With this comes the overall mindset to reduce consumption and not buy useless shit. As with everything, some of us increase, others decrease. Hopefully we stay afloat in the larger sea.
@@kt9495 it's a damaged mind that makes us think we need to buy all this stuff we don't need. It often means we Don't have the money to fund the things we really need.
This is the problem. If you need material ownership to have accountability then you are living in the past. We’ve moved on from the Industrial Age. The Information Age is starting to take shape and it is a complex network that shows how we are connected. Ownership is transforming to a shared responsibility for preserving the earth.
@@despoinaire4017 It doesn’t have to really be one or the other, imo. Of course we’re all connected. Everything is interconnected. I know this on a level most don’t sense or feel. The wheel turns slowly.
I am so glad you still here for all of us old and young ..you have a spirit which drives the emotion in your language that connects to the marrow in the bones. you make it understandable.
..thanks
Early after JPeterson was thrown onto the public scene a few years ago, and after just a few of his ensuing interviews, I remember commenting that I wish he had a libertarian/free market/Austrian Economics- understanding to join his psychological-social-personality experience and wisdoms … hallelujah to seeing him now putting himself exactly into that position ! Just imagine his lectures and interviews two years from now… he will be able to face and easily argue against any and whatsoever collectivist-statist- wishful-thinking-idea based on their perceptions and visions of a non-existent reality -
Its quite sad to see such tribalistic viewing of questions and ideas in your comment. Every perspective is equally valuable because they might be relevant in diffrent situations.
@@gengl671 - ?? 'tribalistic' ... ??? and '... every perspective is equally valuable...' ??
Nope - a perspective that sees 2+2 = 5 is surely not equally valuable as the perspective 2+2 =4 on this planet and in this human reality - similarly, a perspective that considers economic fallacies as the basis for policy-making is not either equally valuable to one that is based on the reality of human existence.. and in this case, on the basic realities of 'Human Action', as they happen to be best described in the Austrian Economic perspectives -
Great to see an extended conversation on economics on this page.
Omg i'm so exited for this Podcast! This is a meeting of the minds! Austrian economics is inherently psychological, so from this connection true new understandings can arise!
Thank you so much Jordan for bringing Bob! It's very important for everyone to at least learn the basics of economics to understand how society works
This is great. I love all of Jordan B Peterson’s content. Thanks for takeing the time to make these mind blowing videos.
Mind blowing? That sets a pretty low bar doesn't it?!?
@@yeager6882 No, it’s not a low bar. This man is a genius.
@@jordanbpetersonforpresiden3073 Don't get me wrong. I really like Peterson and what he has been doing, but he is hardly a genius. In fact, he is way behind the knowledge curve. At least 80 years, but not nearly as far as most. I see him struggle in lectures. I mean that in a good and genuine way. A way your typical prof would never lower themselves too or admit. Peterson's undiscovered dilemmas regard his "positivist school of thought" thinking. He hasn't managed his way out of it. He hasn't yet realized that dilemma he faces regards the short-coming of his knowledge based that has already been dismounted; some 80-90 years ago. Peterson is a by product of the academic legacy of positivism and post positivism. He has not yet realized how much of what he knows is language-dependent. And that, is quite damning. What makes him good is that he is on the verge of discovering this, no doubt thanks to a certain vein of readings including Jung e.g. He needs to study more logic, philosophy of logic, and other greats like E. Cassirer, Brentano, Bolzano, C.S. Peirce, the Polish School, etc. God bless the man. I assume from his lecture performance that he is a rare honest man. He is a gem in these difficult and confusing times!
@@yeager6882 Ok, I think I understand your point. But I dont think its possible to be a genius and all aspects of life. But in his recpective feild i belive he is very insightful and he bring a unique percpective of level headedness and well rounded thinking, that is not typically seen out of Academia.
I sit at home casually watching two Genius level humans discussing important issues at great level of detail... for free... and they actually made that video SO I could watch it for free!!! Could the incentivizing of giving free goods to others as a mean of ensuring financial gain be the beginning of a capitalist utopia?!?
Either way, thanks Jordan🙏🏻❤
Hahahahah. Yes
Jordan is getting sharper and sharper with every video! So excited to see what comes next!
I find hes lost a lot of who he was since his medical emergency but he's always been facinating to listen to. A great professor.
@@TherealSakuraKei give it time - neurological stuff takes a long time to come back from & is harder to do so with age. Just compare this to his first video back and the difference is striking.
I'm honestly really excited and bet the old jordan will be back before we know it - with a wealth of new experiences to draw from
We can hope Skeptik. His body of work up until when he became ill is already more than what you can reasonably expect from one person, quality-wise. My gratitude is such that I treat each contribution beyond 2020 as some miraculous bonus. Especially when it's free!
@@deejay8ch totally agree. Even if he released nothing else I'd be satisfied, this era is like the new lease on life bonus content of his portfolio
Holy Moses, the Murphy on here?!? Amazing!
This is great, I'm not even surprised Jordan Peterson became interested in Austrian Economics. Always in the right path.
@Jordan b peterson ▪️ Yes, wait for me in your dm, you absolutely look like an authentic account.
Happy to meet Dr Murphy ♡
Thanks for this wonderful discussion.
Values are relative ☆
And some people do stock up and buy it all..... Like toilet paper in the US at the start of the last year.