I teach communication classes and this is what I teach it: Disinformation- information you know to be untrue but you share anyway to support your goal. Misinformation- information you think is true but is not. Misleading information- information that is technically true but is taken out of context thus can lead to incomplete/inaccurate conclusions.
this is also why politicians shouldn't tell women what they can do with their bodies...especially based on religious beliefs that not everyone even follows
Can we please talk about the fact that the mRNA ‘vaccine’ is a RNA modulator and NOTHING at all like the normal vaccines. That’s where the conversation needs to start.
What is absolutely infuriating about the whole situation is that a lot of people are lumping in FDA/CDC/NIAID with "politicians", when those agencies are run by career professional scientists and doctors.
Depends on the company, some companies offer paid sick leave and where I live (which is not a state but a territory) paid sick leave is mandated by law
that is why he said it has to be done in cooperation with companies 🤷♀️ so they also understand they are putting all their staff at risk (and maybe face repercussions)
This is such a bittersweet conversation for me to hear. On one hand, this video is confirming a lot of my personal opinions from the pandemic. Things like: shutdowns not needing to be so severe and long lasting, that we only needed to target the very young/very old/at risk from underlying illnesses, that the death toll was ridiculously over inflated, etc. On the other hand.... do you have any idea how enraged I am right now? To hear medical professionals have this conversation so casually now, but in 2020 anyone even daring to question (not protest or be anti-vax) what we were being told about shut downs and vaccines. To have friends, family and coworkers treat you like a Nazi sympathizer for thinking for myself and simply having questions about what is necessary vs fear-mongering-overkill?
Do you know how enraged it makes me, to associate with the ignorant conservatives and liberals? I'm talking about the ones that draw conclusions without proof. If their conclusions turn out to be correct, they conclude that they have more knowledge and authority than peer reviewed, carefully executed studies! They often fail to understand that research, by nature, is evolving as they discover new facts. That is not a conspiracy or a plot - it's the nature of doing medical research. The validity of the studies also depends upon the number who participate and that proper procedures are followed. Hence the reason for peer reviews. It has never claimed to be an exact science as new things are constantly being discovered. Finding a quicker path of treatment - ie., the vaccine - in the face of a rare debilitating disease, or a pandemic, is not sloppy medicine. It has always been considered an option when the initial investigation through the FDA, shows that the treatment has more promise for good, rather than losing lives to the disease.
If you make the worst of a bad situation that's your fault. I got to tell people to bleep off and leave me alone so I can better myself in peace and just chill out.
The swiss ministry of health earned a lot of trust by just answering we don’t know because it’s a new thing. Honest and clear. People mostly listened to the advice. Later turned out that some information was wrong which they admitted. The health minister is retired now but got a standing ovation on his way out. Communication was crucial
Switzerland is not America. Their people, like most of Europe, are mostly well-educated and mentally healthy. US government agencies did say "we don't know" nearly every time they made an announcement or "with what we know now". That is what I, an American, heard. If that one third plus of the US population that only wanted to hear what they wanted to hear by only listening to politicians and others wanting to control that segment, then that is on them. They trusted the wrong sources. Then the question becomes: How did America end up with such a large population of sheep? It had to do with the original people who left their homes in Europe to colonize America. Why did they leave? Many did so because they were forced out; they were unwanted in their communities, even criminals. Australia began with Britain emptying out their prisons, shipping them to that new world. Then, like with America, better people came later, but genetics do get passed on.
@@virginiamoss7045 Even IF they said 'we don't know' they didn't act like it. They were too quick to mock/attack people who questioned them... They acted too certain many times. About whether to wear masks or not, about how the virus started and where, about how many people were dying. About when regions opened up vs didn't open up, about when schools should open up and how to run them. About what age groups needed boosters and when, about how effective the vaccines and boosters were, about what should be mandated and how, etc etc. They allowed political theatre to enter what should have been purely scientific/medical reasoning...
@@iamtobler That simply was not my experience as I followed the development of the pandemic over time. The only political theater came from Trump and some Republicans. If you can't tell the difference, that's on you.
"I was wrong." Three words that every leader, expert and communicator needs to be humble and brave enough to admit. Sure, admitting weakness makes you vulnerable politically but lying will erode your credibility to your allies and to the people you are trying to help. Without trust, you are nothing.
During the pandemic, I followed those who readily admitted when/where they where incorrect, and completely lost respect for anyone who acted infalible in the name of what they called 'science'. Anyone who outright ignores/vilifies dissenting voices is not worth listening to.
Often most people have no nuance in their opinions so “I was wrong” can mean they think he’s untrustworthy because they have their own bias to their personal abilities. I have been told by people they will trust those who say the same thing through any evidence to the contrary more than those who change their minds with evidence because they perceived it as constantly choosing an incorrect opinion that will always be corrected when more information comes out, and they preferred a static ideology that claimed to already know the answer. It was heavily motivated by religion but that translates that mode of thought to other l aspects of their life like science and politics.
I am a huge fan of vaccination, but I will not abide public officials lying to me "for my own good" or the public good. You must tell the truth or you lose the right to tell me anything at all.
Can we please talk about the fact that the mRNA ‘vaccine’ is a RNA modulator and NOTHING at all like the normal vaccines. That’s where the conversation needs to start.
@@Kriddle1229some people would have lost their livelihoods if they didn’t listen, not to mention the social ramifications of being unvaccinated. People were forced in many ways.
I agree. There will always be those who don't listen to reason. Don't bend to them by making up stories. There are (hopefully) far more people who understand at least a bit about how science works and just want to know the data. This whole situation was a mess.
The same way we sue insurance companies for deciding what test they will not pay for until you’ve tried XY and Z . AKA practicing medicine without a license. You just can’t. How is it that an insurance person can tell a doctor what they have prescribe, and what tests to run? It’s all about the $$$$$
I lost trust when my mother was overly radiated and died at Johns Hopkins in 1987. When my father was paralyzed during a back operation and then died of a bowel obstruction while under the care of Johns Hopkins in 1994. HOWVER, the biggest loss was my son in 1989, two days after a DPT vaccine. They don't educate parents today about the DPT vaccine, but they will recommend a D=tap vax.
@@RandomUserYTisFailingSpecifically, the recommendations were nerfed at the behest of the Iowa governor and others close to the meat packing industry. Language was softened from "You must do this" to "We recommend that you try for this..." Rachel Maddow was about the only one on TV who covered this.
@@oliviawolcott8351+ the efficacy percentage + the safe and effective narrative + ” the once and done ” theme + the data regarding masks effectiveness + stance on natural immunity + goal post moving on herd immunity. We can go on and on
I’m a doctor here in Brazil and it was really hard working in the pandemic, in the middle of the “battle field” and seeing so much fake news and unbelievable political decisions that were being taken.
Hey did you know Dr. Offit's buddy "Tony" had his wife as his Ethics Chair? Thank God we had the guy from the 1980s AIDS panic to see us through this crisis. 🙄
You know what I love about these jokers, they can defend a mandate on US citizens while glossing over the vax status of THOUSANDS of people crossing over the border.... BTW the Measles outbreak was in a Sanctuary city...but they still think US citizens aren't taking enough 💉 🙄 Maybe the medical industry would have more credibility if we didn't see "Tony's" stock portfolio. Public Health = Money Laundering.
Remember, folks: people matter more than opinions. We’re going to agree and disagree - and that’s okay! Things are going to be said that aren’t perfect - that’s okay too! It’s okay to be human and take something different from this message than someone else. Thanks Dr. Mike for tackling a very sensitive and volatile topic with professionalism and integrity.
It is not okay to agree to disagree when one side is captured by a cult like adherence to government/pharma propaganda. One side is straight lying. If one side is saying "poison your children for no tangible benefit" and the other is saying "no," you don't agree to disagree.
Hello, I'm writing here in hope to reach people and Doctor Mike: the comments are being censored and I'm not able to respectfully share my experience. This is really concerning, I trust that Doctor Mike is not aware of this because I know it goes against everything he believes in
@@immafox1496he will stay the propaganda line because he doesnt want to lose his careeer, i warned him about these so called vaccinations years ago and he blew me off. IF you want real information, i suggest you check out Dr. John Campbell, and Brett Weinstein for actual non big government controlled information.
There were highly knowledgeable experts in their fields who were muzzled and maliciously, viscously attacked because they didn’t march in lockstep. That’s the antithesis of a scientific approach. Everyone lost their minds and the damage to trust in government and medical institutions is both deserved and profound.
@@gribbler1695 they weren’t giving personal opinions and they were from institutions like Stanford, Yale, and Harvard who we know now for certain had it right. They relied on data from studies conducted in Australia, Japan, Korea, etc. You’re watching a video about things we got wrong. We could have had them correct and done far less damage to children, the economy, and society if we had listened to actual experts who had the data and evidence on their side.
@@gribbler1695 let's say that this is the case, they are still licensed doctors or other professionals who should at least be considered. Why are they saying the things they are? Where is that coming from?
The inability for government and health organizations to simple say “we don’t know but this is the best options we have based on what we know at this time” has done irreparable damage to science as a whole. We may have won the battle, but we are losing the war. 😢
I think you are right but I’ve seen the public act poorly when they admit to not knowing and I think this is a reaction to that. People seem to have a lot of misconceptions regarding the certainty of science and the general public often struggle with nuance, even when explained very simply. I think people don’t pay close attention, don’t think deeply, and messages get distorted by the news media. Take for example when the vaccines first came out there were studies that showed the vaccine prevented symptoms. But because they didn’t perform constant tests for viral antigen they weren’t able to say with certainty that they prevented infection. So the scientists said the vaccines are great at preventing symptoms but we do not know yet if it prevents infection. A lot of people took that to mean they don’t prevent infection. So were they wrong to communicate it this way? Should they instead said it prevents infection even though they didn’t know that for version? I wouldn’t suggest that because it’s important to be honest and I think the reason for the messaging was what it was because they wanted people to continue social distancing. Note this was early on when testing was more difficult and the vaccines were more effective and actually dud a decent job preventing infection as they found out with follow up studies of people regularly resting after vaccination to confirm absence of antigen.
Taking a larger perspective, I think there are too many people who don’t understand that there’s no such thing as a perfect solution. Everything is risk of harm vs probability of benefit.
If there's no such thing as perfect solution, you can't sell something as undeniable truth and treat anyone who has critical thinking and pose some question as a lunatic deserving to be cancelled and stripped of own social sphere. It's called fascism and was made this time by the supposed progressives always caring about freedoms and rights. They showed their true colours. You are free and you have rights only if you act like they want.
Well sure, if your goal is profit, then you don’t want to kill the virus, and you just let it mutate and be more contagious yet less deadly. That is what happened yes. Then they turned around and said “speed of science” when they supposedly tested it fully and spent billions of tax dollars funding this circle jerk..not perfect but definitely killing the virus will help stop the spread lol and that’s not what they wanted
@@beneficent2557 AGAIN it is consent and there are choices. You not liking the choices or not understanding the choices doesn't mean its not consenting.
As a nurse educator, I drill my students on medications they are administering before we even walk into the patient's room. It's intense but they often appreciate it because they're more confident when answering patient questions. Thank you for mentioning that confidence from the practitioner plays a key role in the patient's trust.
Please teach them about their ingredients and how much toxic they are. There is still not a doctor that would answer why childhood vaccines have formaldehyde? Polysorbate 80? Plus the amount of aluminum which is 10x more than what the CDC recommends.
@@editname3145Formaldehyde is used in a lot of processes and is present in our own bodies naturally. We synthesize it and eliminate it without any harm. Polysorbate 80 is used to help deliver and stabilize some vaccines and medications. It’s also used in a lot of foods and cosmetics, so the tiny amount present in a vaccine should be the least of your worries if you consume any processed foods, wear makeup, or use commercially available soaps. Finally, aluminum is present to help enhance the body’s response to certain vaccines. The amount present is insignificant considering the amount of aluminum you are exposed to and ingest on a daily basis. I’m not sure what the concern here is
@@editname3145I’m confused by your comment. Aluminum salts are used in vaccines to stimulate a stronger immune response. And I have more in my breastmilk each time I feed my baby than in one vaccine. The “10x” is referring to the recommendation for things like parental nutrition (into the stomach) because intestinal mucosa doesn’t absorb aluminum the same way. Polysorbate 80 is in a lot of the food we eat. And formaldehyde makes vaccines effective without causing disease. It’s heavily diluted and already present in your body naturally.
Trump suppressing things to stay in power, everything is fine! Don’t look behind the curtain!! And Biden group awfulizing everything and shutting down commerce and human interaction.
@@rsalbreiterProbably the best way to say it. The issue is that this came out of nowhere (well, there was a slight period where it was in China before it went everywhere), and everyone just didn't know what to do.
Can we please talk about the fact that the mRNA ‘vaccine’ is a RNA modulator and NOTHING at all like the normal vaccines. That’s where the conversation needs to start.
It's still not over. Those of us that are immunocompromised are still fucked. I haven't been to a restaurant, a concert, a venue, the movies, a friends house....since January 2020.
So much of the distrust for me could have been avoided if the CDC simply said “I don’t know” instead of saying that masks 100% do not work at the start of covid then did a complete 180 and told everyone they HAVE to wear a mask then later said, “well they’re not really effective”. By the way take this vaccine we developed and has less than a year worth of testing done and you only need to take it once. Then a year a later “by the way take this seasonally like a flu vaccine”.
Yeah the flip flopping on telling you what to do can be hard for people to trust. But at the same time I think they were trying to give the best info they had at the time. You don’t know what you don’t know….but they could’ve done a happy medium like “hey we think at this time masks don’t help, BUT we aren’t sure. You could still wear one if you want, we’re just not sure how well it helps” I think overall at the start of the pandemic, we weren’t sure of anything because with anything new, we don’t have all the facts or answers so everyone was going off what we thought we knew at the time, but then we learn we’re wrong or were misunderstanding things.
I think the authorities did say it with appropriate uncertainty. The problem is once it gets repeated through the media and on social media and turns into policies at the local level, what was a "recommendation" becomes "Fauci is forcing us to..."
This podcast is why we need scientists and doctors and other people (hello, media!) who actually have people's best interest at heart. The question is how does one find those professionals? Ideally, it would be social media...
As a pharmacist, working through the height of COVID was an utterly embarrassing time to be a healthcare worker. The fall out from our government's mishandling of the COVID response ruined more lives than the virus itself.
I wish people stopped using the terms "my, your" truth. Truth just simply is (or should be), if you need to add adjectives to it it's NOT TRUTH, it's an opinion, point of view!!!
@@fennyellis3366 truth is not subjective, truth is an abstract notion (abstract logic), and we live in real world, where any abstraction is at best an approximation of reality. Now, which abstraction better approximates reality -- that can be a big argument.
Unreasonably. Equating a clandestine government operation during a fundamentally racist era of our history to a once-in-a-generation virus with every single pair of eyes in the world on it is objectively wrong. Doing things in the dark is far different than doing it with literally every single researcher, scientist, doctor, and medical organization in the world collaborating and sharing information.
I live in Washington state and at the time of writing this former NBA star John Stockton is suing the state Of Washington for silencing any doctor who tried to publish an opinion that the state disagreed with. Not silencing people who were pushing crazy stuff out of a basement I mean silencing practicing doctor's and expert's in the field.
100% if they had been transparent and not assume we were too dumb to notice some things, I think the state of our country would be very different aside from the COVID related repercussions.
I wish it was this easy but it isn’t. People can’t be scared of something censorship prevents them from seeing. Fear of the unknown, yes, sure, but if the unknown is a scholarly article then nobody will care. It is also universally agreeable that people should combat untrue information, but who decides what is true? Ironically, it is easy to be uncritical about critical thinking. Things that seem universally good quickly become complicated.
While I've left my house and have done public errands, grocery shopping etc (when I WANT to) since Covid... I haven't WORKED in person since 2020 since for my field personally, most employers discovered in-person work of that type is TOTALLY NOT NECESSARY (for my field... it CAN be all mostly remote / online and still be effective). So... saves a LOT on gas, car repairs, AND unnecessary risk of viruses (including common cold viruses and flu viruses that were around WAY before Covid). So such realization, used in a healthy manner at least... could be considered an improvement).
Given that it’s a threat and many immunocompromised people have virtually been locked out of society since others won’t mask or actually disclose their illness, do you blame this person? By stating that this is a psychological issue, you’re implying that their fear is disproportionate to the actual threat at hand
@@TWForeeever "Immunocompromised people have been locked out of society since others won't mask"... you do realize [I've heard of] studies showing masks only work about 70% (?). I know that's not any excuse for not taking advantage of that 70% effectiveness, but my my point is: If I was an immunocompromised person who had a low risk tolerance... I would NOT trust that 30% mask INeffectiveness... so even IF EVERYONE "masked up" (and even disclosed their illness IF they knew... this virus VERY often spreads BEFORE symptoms appear FYI)... I would STILL be hiding. In fact, I am not even officially "immunocompromised" and I STILL choose to hide! Well not to an "extreme" but I have gotten out of even long lines at the bank try try again another day if I hear anyone cough in the building. And I've modified my breathing habits when I get near people such that if anyone DOES cough while near me, I'll likely be holding my breath at the moment, and will have time to get away from them.
One thing I noticed where I had lived and online was that the political discourse made it extremely hard to have civil conversations and ask questions of peers around you. Almost any hesitancy to take the vaccine or questions about it's safety in children was treated met with social pressure, pushback, and no answers on where to get more information. Of course meeting peoples worries with vitriol only pushed those with questions away and made them more distrusting. Though I did get vaccinated, I was one of those individuals who had a lot of skeptism, and I can greatly empathize with those who were fearful.
I did not take the vaccine. I'm so glad I stood my ground. But you're right.. even asking a simple question was met with so much hate from armchair doctors
I think the biggest problem with that is that there's a big difference between legit questions about a vaccine and being an antivaxor. The more bigger problem this country which is there is no nuance for discussion. There's only extremes. One of the reasons why most people don't know anything about science because everyone treats all data as absolutes because we learned that from dealing with US law and religious books. So science it does not deal in absolutes but we live in the society that only thinks an absolutes. You either are pro science or anti-vax. You can't be a scientist that has some legitimate concerns about a vaccine then thus wants to see more trials or more clarification. It just doesn't happen.
@@jordanwhite352 -- "legit questions" who is/was the judge on that? mob rule is the answer to that. So no, I don't you understand. People got threat's by the question "Why, explan that to me" and not just following along. And yes, that was what has happening, I happen to me.
One thing that should be mentioned is that these were NOT traditional vaccines. They are mRNA drugs that generate an immune response. This was a big experiment practiced on billions of people with little public discussion. People were fired and ostracized for simply asking questions. Now we are hearing of possible bad outcomes of exposure to the spike protein (Pfizer) and these people still cannot admit a possible mistake. They only admit to miscommunication. P.S. The rotavirus vaccine IS a traditional vaccine. It is not in the same class as Pfizer’s “vaccine”.
@@jordanwhite352 Your statement that, "there's a big difference between legit questions about a vaccine and being an antivaxor", destroys the possibility of any meaningful, or even civil dialogue with those who disagree with you. Without that you can't have any real nuances, because you don't accept that people who disagree with you may be honest, well-meaning, intelligent and well informed. Try it for a thought experiment.
That stupid people exist in every cohort? Or that people make stupid mistakes? There's nothing definitive that anyone does that makes a sweeping generalization anything other than a logical fallacy.
Could the lack of trust in the medical community have anything to do with the fact that pharmaceutical companies are publicly traded on the stock market and raises the concern that their priority is to their shareholders and not the patients. Raising cost of insulin and epi-pen for example.
That's part of it. I think distrust also comes from people's individual experiences with the medical system and the experiences of people they know. There are people who get sick and go to a doctor only to be told it's all in their heads and are dismissed. They later find out they actually do have a health problem and they were let down by their doctor.
Also the fact that since 1986, vaccine manufacturers have been immuine to prosecution. They all decided together and told the govt they would stop making vaccines, unless they passed the law to protect them. Since the US Govt didn't want to risk them following thru on their threat and having to purchase vaccines outside the US, they gave them everything they wanted. Now, why would vaccine manufacturers do that, if they didn't know that their products were dangerous? No other type of medication is protected from prosecution like that. Also, look at how many vaccines were CDC Recommended before 1986 and after 1986, they doubled the amount of shots. Yes, there is a fund set aside for children who are vaccine injured- but it is nearly impossible to actually win that court battle. They only gave into that caveat of the law, since they knew the cost of lawyers was cheaper than paying out lawsuits. It is heartbreaking to read the stories of the families who's children have been severely vaccine injured and continually get denied in court, even tho their children have been diagnosed (sometimes by multiple doctors) as vaccine injured. These manufacturers value money over people, which is why there are meds that cost tens of thousands of dollars a month. An inhaler w/o prescription coverage is $300-$600, even w/insurance people have co-pays in the 100s.
So it seems that there's an admission here that the public was lied to to make them comply and then derision and confusion because a faction of the public doesn't trust what is being told to them. That doesn't seem too insightful. The fear mongering was absolutely politically motivated to force compliance.
I agree. As a family general medicine doctor, he interacts with the public. The CDC as well as government don't really interact with the average person. The communication is different when you are only among a limited group. Your colleagues have a different exposure to the messaging and knowledge set.... so communication with people who don't speak the same office jargon as your profession don't understand where you're coming from and when the messaging is obviously dumbed down for the public, the public can sense that and you loose the trust because people sense the messaging isn't quite right.
As a member of the public, I appreciate the nuanced message on vaccines. I hate when public health officials act like the public is stupid and can't handle the truth so they tell an untruth instead of explaining why this is their recommendation and how they expect that recommendation to work.
Hey did you notice how this video has no timestamps? It's almost like this faux "mea culpa" was rushed out at the behest of someone's lawyers 💀 It must be nice to pretend to larp as an authoritative source while simultaneously avoiding all legal accountability.
Offit is propagating nuanced propaganda. There is no comfort in that. What he is actually doing with his fake apology for nothing in particular is doubling down on the use of social psychology and propaganda tools to move the public, becasue in his view, the public are profoundly ignorant and stupid, and incapable of making rational informed decisions about their personal medical care. So, he is committed to stripping you of your right to bodily autonomy and informed consent. He really hates you, but he hates you in a nuanced way.
Yeah this is bothering me, everyone has memoryholed covid guidance as "they were wrong. But at the time didn't know better" when that is literally not the case. They knew better but lied to the public to try and convince everyone to do what they want.
That's a loaded accusation. Not saying you're wrong or right. But a wide margin act like they're pros in any field with just a quick internet search or listen to folks talk about any given subject. The only true fact is "we don't know." Saying anything else with such certainties is muddying the waters of an already silted up river and doesn't help. We need to remember to focus on what we know and go from there.
What is the logic of mandating a vaccine that did not significantly stop transmission? From the BMJ: Most studies show if you got an infection after vaccination, compared with someone who got an infection without a vaccine, you were pretty much shedding roughly the same amount of virus,” says Paul Hunter, professor in medicine at the University of East Anglia. One study, sponsored by CDC, found “no difference in infectious virus titer between groups” who had been vaccinated and had not. And why mandate a vaccine to everyone, when not everyone's risk/benefit analysis is the same. For example, an 20 yr old man has less to benefit (due to the high frequency of adverse effects compared to other vaccines), than a 70 yr old, were the vaccines provided huge benefits compared to the risks.
Almost no vaccine completely stops a disease. That is NOT the point. The point is that it DID absolutely massively reduce severe cases and deaths across people of all ages. THAT was the goal because Covid wrecked all great health care systems. And it worked
@@metalpuppet5798if you actually look at the low data pools they used to acquire this information - and if you look at all the unvaccinated - not infected they pulled from the pool for various reasons, and the vaccinated who got severe covid - that they didnt count and removed from the pool…. you would understand this topic more. im sure you havent actually read the data and full studies that were released…. but maybe you should instead of just believing propaganda
@@danarzechula3769 (4th attempt, my comments keep getting deleted) Yes, it was about X-mission, the cdc director and f@uci keep repeating that the j@xx stopped x-mission. The media an authorities kept repeating "nobody is safe until everybody is safe". Bad diet and no exercise are the leading causes of heart disease, which is the leading cause of hospitalization and death in the US even higher than co--v--id, yet they don't m@nd@te exercise and good diet because it's an individual's choice if they want to take care of themselves as it does not affect others, just like getting the cov j@xx since you can still spread it, it's about protecting oneself. So, forcing people to take it, had no scientific reason.
I looked that up thinking it might be Shakespeare, or similar. The French Abbot, Bernard of Clairvaux, said something that translates as "Hell is full of good wishes or desires" in the early 1100s. In 1670 "Hell is paved with good intentions" was a known proverb. The current version was listed in a book of proverbs in 1855.
@@EinsteinsHair interesting 🤔 I like people that actually seek out knowledge, just for the sake of knowing. That's right up my alley. It's funny how many popular sayings end up being a misquote of something else.
I don't think they had good intentions and that's the real problem. They are already getting ready to roll out a bird flu vaccine in they can get away with it.
The answer to your question of how you stop misinformation is not to censor it. We need to teach kids in schools to be critical thinkers. Not just to take what everyone tells you as fact. How to evaluate information and trace it back to sources. Don't take someone's regurgitation of the info as fact. Go as close to the source as possible. If you ban the conversation, it will cause mistrust of those causing the ban. If an organization wants to be trusted, they must tell the truth and over time they will build a trusted image.
There’s a fascinating report called “The Firehose of Falsehood” put out by RAND. Worth a read. Short version - if people are overloaded with options they will fall back on what their peers want to hear and stop caring about what’s true.
This is what I say all the time, but the issue is that it will never happen unless an incredible complete overhaul of how the internet works and the education system as a whole happens. And something needs to happen to give people the free time to pursue knowledge about this- people aren't gonna just stop having opinions about things they don't know about, so they need the time to research info if this ideal future were to come about realistically... so realistically it just won't happen.
How do you plan on doing that when kids are homeschooled or going to religions school? What's the plan until only kids who were taught critical thinking are left? Cuz right now, there are still a lot of people who arent kids, who do not possess critical thinking and have an effect on others. What about them?
17:45 I paid close attention to vaccine trials and research, am married to a doctor and have a biomed engineer for a sibling. Most of our extended family came to us for answers and clarification. When we told them the nuances, they looked to the public messaging, especiallythe contradiction of democrats who were questioning how well it was made like Kamela Harris under trump and them immediately switched up under biden. Because of the hard sell and politicization by the gov, they shifted to wondering if they went as far as lying about the data too, so people that were informed would be tricked too. The government failed us from top to bottom during the pandemic. Thats where the loss of trust comes from
Thank you for bringing this up as I remember clearly Ms. Harris, Hilary Clinton, AOC, Nancy Pelosi and many other democrats (the party I am affiliated with btw) denouncing the vaccines, the trails, saying it was rushed to market, explicitly not trusting Project Warp Speed all because it was associated with Trump. They were the original political anti-vaxxers and the left leaning media spread that message until Biden was in office and they flipped on a dime. It was reprehensible because they were busy playing politics, during a global pandemic, that many of them profited off of, instead of being there for the people.
In EU we were only considered vaccinated if we did one of the american/british vaccines. The chinese or russian one didn't count. Our friend worked in a hotel in UAE, and when he returned to EU he had to be vaccinated again to get a covid pass, otherwise he'd be jobless. There was no workaround (eg antibodies testing). How medical is it to impose two vaccinations to someone? if anyone tells me there was any data of the above being safe, I will laugh. Oh, and he signed a waiver. My belief to this day, is that most governments made decisions against public health. The most laughable is giving a "pass" to vaccinated people, although vaccines didn't sterilize you from the virus.
Nah, take your measles vaccine. Take the majority of vaccines. Don't go off shoring viral research and then try to cover it up with a technology that's been privatized.
The challenge with blocking misinformation/disinformation is who gets to decide. History has countless cases where the one decenting voice that got called false was true... hand washing during surgery, fat vs sugar, lead gasoline. I think you have to allow it all to be debated and proved/disproved.
Honestly it's really frustrating that "go back to work" is prioritized in a country that doesn't have free healthcare and where employers are predatory toward their employees. Go back to work when you're actually feeling better. It took me a month to get over COVID the second time. I'm still coughing. If I had to be driving to work it would have taken longer.
Actually... SO many people do NOT realize that healthcare is NEVER overall "FREE". Even where "healthcare ITSELF" seems "free", it is STILL COSTING those, even SAME, people, either money from their OTHER sources (like upfront out of their paychecks)... OR it's costing OTHER people money even if it's not costing money for certain people. SOME such people do realize that, BUT I always wish to clarify the semantics so they don't forget how things actually work.
@sathvamp1 I don't think you realize how misled you are. For instance, the US spends more TAXPAYER money per person on healthcare than any other country. People THEN spend more employer money on healthcare than any other country, and still in many cases have higher deductibles than any other country. While countries with heavily socialized healthcare result in people seeking treatment *earlier*, when it's *cheaper*, and negotiating better rates with pharmaceutical companies so they pay less total for the medication. So overall FREE doesn't mean completely free, but it does frequently result in substantially LESS money being spent, even by the taxpayer, and results in life expectancies nearly 10 years longer than the US where it costs more than any other country in the world, at all levels. It's not a case of just shifting the cost from the individual to the taxpayer, it's actually just cheaper (for literally EVERYONE) AND more effective. The lack of 'free' healthcare in the US for many people actually results in more of other people's money being spent on emergency care that need not have even been an emergency if those people had access to healthcare earlier. The private system also results in people paying more just in deductibles for the same medications vs other systems where the taxpayer pays it all at a much much lower rate..
Some of the doctors were crazy AND NOT following the science. Its why some nurses got fired as well as doctors. If your not going to pay attention to the updated science THEN WHY be in the medical field? ANYBODY in the medical field also have to have vaccines every year because they are around patients. ITS NOT new. Even going to college they make sure you are up to date before even getting in the program.
As someone who was part of the COVID-19 vaccine rollout and someone with a master's in public health, I was really frustrated by a lot of CDC's response to COVID-19 (not the actual employees and the amazing work that they did but the people leading CDC). The directors we had were a) not trained in communications and b) were telling people what they thought they wanted to hear.. that doesn't mean this information was unavailable though! everything is on CDC's site including the fact that the vaccine doesn't 100% prevent mild infection and things like that... HOWEVER because that wasn't frequently stated on tv and stuff, that left me and other public health people with the job of explaining to people we vaccinated that no the vaccine really did work even though you got a mild infection.. the vaccine protects you from hospitalization and death... of course these people then felt really surprised and sort of maybe misled... my team and even myself as a person all lost a lot of the trust and respect we had because of directors that made certain choices.. we are still working to get that trust back.
I think the media and the government need to stop treating the general public as though we cannot understand complex issues. Transparency and honesty are the best ways to help our public be informed and *participate* in the solution.
Except the general public does NOT understand complex medical information or this wouldn’t have turned political. It would have ONLY been a public health issue and people would have vaccinated themselves and their families. Instead we had every lay person acting like they understand immunology and pandemics. Thanks to politicians….
That was a phenomenal conversation to watch, especially as a medical student. Terrific display of understanding nuance in medicine and giving advice on conveying important health measures to the public despite ever-changing data. I loved every second of it!
Hi Dr. Mike, I am a recent graduate who wants to become a certified chemical engineer. I have been watching your videos since the COVID pandemic and I just want to say THANK YOU because have been a huge help to everyone who needs information on health, culture, medicine, myths, etc. I have learned plenty by watching your videos and I was also fact-checked by them on some things I thought I knew. I would like to, in the future, become a UA-camr who makes videos about industrial processes, more related to chemical production, refineries, oil transformation, and also on safety prevention (CHAZOP, HAZOP, FMEA, risk assessment, etc). Nowadays, with all the incidents occurring in chemical plants and other facilities, the need for medical information is important more than ever. I do not know if my comment will ever be seen, but I would like to know your comments on that (from a medical standpoint). Not only the risks but also the medical causes and effects of said accidents. Thank you!
Public health has always treated its audience as idiots. They never trusted their audience with the strict truth, and tried to suppress disagreements with their narrative rather than holding an open discussion. They never tried reporting real science, which amounts to as much information as possible. They only acted on behavior change, not education.
Public Health was CREATED at Johns Hopkins in 1917 by Rockefeller funding and then again in Jerusalem in 1918. Johns Hopkins is still a "Public Hospital" meaning you do NOT need insurance to be treated and they have financial assistance that ranges from free to low-cost health. ELIMINATING every NATURAL born bloodstream in the world.
26:14 I wish air quality had been pushed harder. Improved air quality in public spaces would have been a net good in a bunch of different ways and it wouldn’t have infringed on anyone’s bodily autonomy. If we’d put air purifiers in every classroom so schools would stay open that would probably have helped lower rates of all respiratory infections and would help with the (increasingly regular) wildfire smoke pollution. Heck if done right it could have even been great for the economy!
It was and is in Germany. My kid’s classroom has a monitor and they frequently open the windows. I’m at the university and windows were opened for 5-15 minutes every hour (yes even in the winter).
100% agree. We ran UV air cleaners around the clock at our house. Public spaces should have been REQUIRED to of had UV air purifiers every X amount of square feet.
I think they were talking specifically about the Covid vaccine when they said all the other countries except Canada target high-risk groups, but as a Canadian I just wanted to mention: Our annual flu vaccines used to be targetted to high risk groups, I think partly because we didnt have the volume of vaccines, or the capacity to administer them, to the full population. With Covid, in BC at least, our vaccines were rolled out to high-risk people _first_ as a priority, but were ultimately made available to everyone.
@@kdn142 People could choose not to get them, but they were not permitted to be in businesses where other people would be exposed to them, even if the business was their workplace. I think it could reasonably be argued that it was effectively mandatory, but if I recall correctly it was never _technically_ mandatory.
@@sydneyyoung7352 at least most authoritarian regimes like Russia have the balls to be overt with their heavy-handed policies. I knew a PHD student who was failed in retaliation for refusing to get the vaccine. One of his professors threatened to punch out anyone who watched jordan peterson in his classroom. Your effete government's constant victimhood cudgel is pathetic. Trudeau belongs in prison.
@@beneficent2557 first: I don't have that kind of power. The Canadian federal government froze the back accounts of 57 individuals and organizations, some of whom were truckers, to end blockades at Canadian border crossings and the gridlock of parked commercial trucks and trailers shutting down part of Ottawa (for I think over two weeks?) That sounds like a very non-violent way to pressure the convoy to disperse, to me. The protesting truckers did not have to get vaccinated, but there were very disruptive public safety measures they had to comply with if they refused, which would have made it impossible to do the exact same job in the exact same way they had pre-pandemic. While Canadians had some privileges taken away during the pandemic in the interest of public health, adults do have bodily autonomy and may refuse vaccines.
If you want people to trust the medical profession, then maybe don't act like you know more than you do. Also, don't deceive, bribe, coerce, or otherwise manipulate people into doing something that they really do not want to do. Just a thought.
@jordanwhite352 they certainly didn't seem to actually know more than me when they told me initially that a medical product would guarantee that I cannot become infected with a certain infectious disease only for them to have to walk that back a few months later. In fact, that was a pattern I discovered time and time again. Information that I was being given by ostensible professionals and experts turned out to be less than accurate months later. It wouldn't be such a big deal, except for the fact that people's livelihoods, careers, and reputations were destroyed over all of this horrendous advice as government officials ceded their authority to unelected bureaucrats. Also, similarly qualified experts with different advice from that being offered by the "approved" experts were ignored, suppressed, and smeared. There's no excuse for any of this.
@@jordanwhite352 mate, you want everyone to lay down their rights just because the governmental agencies coercing them might "know more than they do?" Why have any rights at all?
@@pata-tata557 and again, this is exactly what the right wing did during age hell before they knew how age was transmitted every conservative Christian promoted and war masks because they're only interested in a disease when it's an interest to their bullshit and not when it actually matters.
@@pata-tata557 I'm fine with people having their own rights as long as they're not impacting others. That ends when your rights impact my rights. It's the same thing when untrained individuals who *think* they know more than the professionals want everyone else to lay down their rights because of their *rights* which are based on nonsense.
I disagree with many of the points that were made here, but I am grateful to see them being discussed in a logical manner and with an appreciation for why the pushback happened which isn't laced with hysterics and insults. This is a major step towards understanding and mending the rift that abuses of power like the pandemic created.
100%. If the CDC came out and said, "We thought this would work... we now believe this..." would have worked much better on most of the population. Me included. Most humans were intelligent enough to know this was something NEW to our population, so a level of error is expected.
@@E_Don the people who made the rules in the state of New York that said I couldn't enter the hospital as my father was dying and threatened to arrest me had I tried.
I hope your pain goes away. Everyone is gonna die some we will die and nevee get to tell by to our loved ones and some will die with their loved ones right beside them. Regardless of whar your faith was, do good at regards of ur dad. Donate in regards of ur dad, pray if u believe. Thats gonna benefit him more.
This is coming from a completely scientific point of view. I’m a long term nurse that works with a worldwide population. I’m not sure if the breakdown of our medical system or what part of covid has impacted my patient population but I have seen accelerated cancers, accelerated Parkinson’s, and other rare autoimmune diseases. I honestly have no idea why I have been seeing this trend but I hope our medical community has the opportunity to heal so we can work together to improve our medical system and the way we disseminate information. The pandemic has challenged my love of medicine. I really enjoyed the content of this interview I will be interested to read the research in the next ten years.
I felt deeply for the medical staff, doctors, nurses, during COVID. My heart broke repeatedly for all of you. I worked with special needs kids in the school system and that is a story of it's own. It certainly showed the worst and best of humanity. 💜
You are not the only medical professional who questioned the science and the health institutions during and after the pandemic. Reusing masks! Wearing garbage bags! Replacing well-tested vaccine technologies with the novel mRNA technology!
You had a ~2 year period where people were avoiding hospital visits like the plague (forgive my choice of words). Of course you're going to suddenly see people coming in with more advanced disease when they've been given ample reason to avoid preventive screenings or in-person visits to manage/investigate symptoms of chronic diseases.
@@judymills2362 I am honestly open to any research but have noted things over these last few years in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals that I hadn’t seen previously. I would love to see more research into the virus I just wish it wasn’t such a political position because most healthcare workers just want healthy patients and to provide good guidance. The mistrust and division this has caused just makes me so sad to see. Being over a facility when this hit I keep hoping the ripple effects to stop which I understand is naive and simplistic.
At least here in Brazil (a country which copied the US very closely, like a child imitating a cartoon), the distrust began when the government started mandating things. Brazilians love vaccines, we're one of the most vaccinated countries out there. However, people were fleeing the covid19 vaccine because it was forced upon them, which reinforces the idea that "Good ideas don't require force".
98% of the comments under this video are saying things that would have been censored and/or harshly criticized during the pandemic by the government, media, and social media platforms. That right there is a huge reason why trust was lost.
What are they supposed to do? Sit at their computers miserable and overworked? Do you have any idea what they had to go through? Everyone needs a way to cope with things so it doesn’t destroy their mental emotional and physical health. It isn’t just about you. No one could visit family members. A lot of healthcare workers couldn’t even be around healthy family members. You were not the only one affected. Quit playing the victim.
@@maddilong135 How do you learn a dance routine while overworked? If I had a bad shift at work and you came up to me to ask me to join a tik tok dance I'd kick you through a door.
@@maddilong135for example, in England, they shut NHS medical system for anything apart from Covid in 2020-21, so many other illnesses were not treated and people dare still struggling and are dying from this undiagnosed conditions.
The point is, all those medical services should not have been cancelled, and the public shouldnt’ have been scared away from hospitals. Mental and emotional and physical health were destroyed for too many people. It wasn’t worth it.@@maddilong135
Public Health knows really well that to reduce STDs you don't just tell the public "don't have sex", but when it came to covid they used that strategy. So strange
People with health issues and over 60 years of age should be vaccinated if they wish so. Don’t push it on young people with good immune systems. I had Covid and must say I have had colds hit me more. If you are sick stay home and recover.
not how it works. immune systems arent an end all be all, some systems are good against covid some arent doesn't mean that these systems were bad, just imperfect. which is why vaccinating everyone is important. also not vaccinating young people will increase the chance of transmitting it to older people, even if the old people were vaccinated, and allows the virus to mutate further causing the vaccines to be less effective over time. if you know how the flu vaccine works then you would know that the flu mutates every year. causing doctors and researchers to make vaccines for the new mutant.
What infuriates me is doctors and healthcare professionals and those with common sense and the ability to think critically would say something "they" didn't like, they would be punished and ostracized and silenced and then a few months later "they" would come out saying the same thing...
@@jordanwhite352are you serious? Here’s some examples; non at risk populations probably don’t need to vaccinate. Exercise and sunlight combined with a healthy diet is probably the best way to prevent severe cases in non at risk populations, social distancing doesn’t make any sense(that ones now been admitted), not allowing people to be with their dying loved ones is cruel and unhelpful, I’m doubtful of the effectiveness of this new vaccine technology, I’m doubtful that I need to vaccinate, I’m doubtful that masks are effective. There are alternative, cheap, readily available treatment regimens that may be very effective for many people.
@@jordanwhite352 I've also been waiting for an example but I guess after a week, none is forthcoming. It infuriated ME during Covid that far too many nurses were giving bad advice to people to not get vaccinated and were being listened to due to their title of "healthcare professional". Yes, most lost their jobs but not soon enough and they had far too many supporters. "Healthcare professionals" can be just as stupid as the general public by not following the science to where it leads.
@@flortho2440That's because generally those examples tend to be flagged and deleted by UA-cam algo. Take it from me. I know about it very well. UA-cam won't let me share. Oh well
What is also severely messed up is telling people " get vaccinated or lose your job" that is super messed up. There was no choice for letting people decide what they wanted for themselves
the government doesn't do anything to cut the junk food in the market. This leads to people having a very poor immune system. That should be the priority instead of forcing people to get a jab of a new vaccin untested in the long term.
The trust was already on the block and they will never get it back. How do you communicate it? Stop trying to complicate it! Be direct be honest be transparent
They are! But doctors and scientists are surrounded by a bubble of politicians and reporters who communicate the doctor's message, and that is where things go wrong.
Except your Americans are known to go hog wild when a medical institution says “ i dont know” because your general population has sooo many misconceptions about science
I dont think he really understands what bodily autonomy means to some people. He argued neatly, but not in a way that will really hit and change the mind of people with that understanding. By not addressing it adequately it will mainly just polarize further.
It took long enough for this realization to appear. It will probably take 20 years for trust to be regained. And yet, public health doubles down on compliance (NOT consent) through fear and coercion.
public health was doing that because people weren't masking and staying home etc, what do they do when half the country was still out and about and getting infected every day, the virus doesn't care about your consent
People have been arguing against vaccines for well over a hundred years now. Those groups now have an example of the ENTIRE medical establishment enforcing arbitrary and completely made up on the spot rules and standards to throw into the face of anyone arguing with them. What makes you think this distrust is ever going to be fixed. The people whose lives were ruined or otherwise disrupted will likely never forget. If ever, it will take the ENTIRE current living population being replaced for trust to go back to normal. Though I'd hesitate to define "forgetting" as regaining trust. Many people couldn't even say goodbye to their DYING FAMILY. Expect more to be unearthed. It's a looong history.
:) I appreciate Paul Offit and didn't know about him before this video. I really appreciate how scientifically minded he seems to be and how he tries to note his & others mistakes, and looks to improve himself through those mistakes. Thank you for the mature conversation Mike :)
When people who were living with HIV/AIDS died, it was reported as ‘died from complications due to HIV/AIDS.’ A distinction without a difference. If the person wasn’t living with HIV, the subsequent illnesses would likely not have come about. Same thing with COVID. I remember my patients being afraid to go to the hospital because the number of cases had been inflated. In some, or most, cases people didn’t die from COVID (or complications due to); they just happened to have COVID when dying. I believe the disinformation was meant to scare people into staying home or getting the vaccine.
If they would have likely survived without COVID, then it's fair to say they died of COVID. The reason reports say "died from complications due to HIV/AIDS" is because HIV doesn't kill people directly - it weakens their immune system and makes them far more likely to die from other diseases. But it's fair to say "died of HIV/AIDS" in that case.
Imagine a scenario where a young, healthy individual who has already recovered from Covid is mandated by the state and government-funded institutions to receive two to three vaccines to attend college. This is profoundly unjust, irrespective of one's stance on vaccination. Such a policy is not justifiable and evokes strong feelings of anger. Consider how you would feel if professionals in a different field, such as mechanics advising on car brakes, were to dictate government policy with the same level of chaos and uncertainty as seen with Covid. Would you accept being mandated to drive with your children in a car equipped with new brake technology, despite doubts about its safety and efficacy? The mishandling of the Covid situation, coupled with experts gaslighting the public and shifting blame for their failures, is utterly infuriating.
There was a significant amount of politicization of COVID during the pandemic. This is what made people mistrusting of the government and of medical institutions.
I stopped watching him during covid because he was pushing nothing but propaganda. Not a doctor I would go to. But, I have recently made my way back to his videos. The guy he's interviewing is a quack too.
I agree to disagree on some points of this talk, but this civil, earnest conversation is what is so desperately needed in medicine!! Thank you, Dr. Mike. Please have a similar conversation with Dr. John Campbell.
Yes please. At the beginning of the pandemic, I was following Dr. Campbell. Then, when he started going down the “Ivermectin is safe and effective for COVID” path…my eyes were opened! I no longer follow him.
"Dr" John is not a doctor. He has already been debunked numerous times. But I'm sure he appreciates the continuing viewership of millions of suckers like you.
I actually got myocarditis after I got the second vaccine(against my will). Im glad this was brought up. I think it's way more common than he thinks it is or was tho
The virus didn’t bring the country to its knees. Governmental policies did. I worked in a lab that tested for influenza, RSV and COVID. In September 2020, we stopped testing for influenza and RSV because all resources went to COVID. OF COURSE influenza/RSV numbers are going to go down when we’ve stopped testing for it,
Okay now apply this same logic to COVID now. Everyone is so close to understanding. COVID mitigations are ultimately nonexistent now because no one is testing for it, yet here we are five years later in a pandemic with an average of 24% of Americans suffering from long COVID (post viral illness) and about 1000 Americans still dying. Testing isn’t encouraged, so people remain under the impression that COVID is not something to be concerned about
We didn't stop testing for those in Australia, and we also eradicated Covid for most of the pandemic period despite enormous amounts of testing (including wastewater testing that will pick up if even one person in the treatment catchment has Covid). All viruses went down, which shouldn't be a surprise, international travel is a huge source of things like influenza. And a few week 'break' in the chain of transmission of many other viruses stops them dead. So your anecdotal evidence is kind of worthless when there's provable large scale evidence to the contrary. Perhaps the biggest reason Covid was able to be eradicated in Australia was government support for people that had to stay at home, they were not forced to work or starve if sick.
Interesting. Our labs not only kept testing for it, but expanded to a panel of over a dozen viruses that were normally not tested for pre-pandemic, ranging from RSV, rhino-entero, and non-covid coronaviruses.
"How do you debate someone like that?" You don't because you can't. You can't debate with willful ignorance anymore than you can reason with crazy. Good call to walk away from that one.
As someone who watches lots of debates, the best way I've seen to deal with people jumping from wrong statement to wrong statement ("Gish Galloping") is to simply ask a question that you know the answer to, that you know they know the answer to, that disproves something they said. And don't progress the conversation until they answer it. i.e. "the sky is red, the sea is purple, the grass is blue" "Ok so then why is it that in all of human history it's been depicted as blue, blue, and green?" edit: i'm a new grad RN who uses this and Motivational Interviewing when trying to get people to slow down and discuss one thing at a time
Colors categorization is just that and the human eye receptors and brain work differently from human to human. We only can give a general light wavelength of each nouns mentioned to say what they are, what they are is different than how people perceive it. One is objective to the subject, one is perception of the subject.
Having already had two very mild cases of Covid, I felt that the risk to me was minimal and therefore the only true reason I would be getting the vaccine was for political or economic (my job) reasons. I refused on principle to inject anything into my bloodstream for any reason other than medical. It had everything to do with government overreach. Though in general, I think the vaccine is good and those who need it should get it.
You compare eating dna and nanograms of dna in traditional vaccines to that from injections from mrna vaccines with nanolipid particles with aluminum adjuvants that easily cross the blood brain barrier. There are many studies proving the exact point that he tries to refute with false analogies
Man. Dr. Mike talking about not getting together for thanksgiving reminds me of CDC and safe sleep recommendations WHICH I WAS ACTIVELY A PART OF. When I had my first child he would not sleep on his own, in any way shape or form. I knew what the safest sleep environment for him was, but WTF do you do when your child doesn’t sleep in that environment? I had to research the deep corners of the internet to figure out what the heck to do, because what we were doing was waaay less safe than “safe” cosleeping.
Remember when they tried getting people to get vaccinated by offering free cheeseburgers? Exercise would have been a good recommendation before they even rolled out the vaccines. "It was observed that physical exercise could be a protection factor against the disease in the majority of studies. This protective factor was related to cases of death, improved lung function, and reduced symptoms of the disease." But no. We banned people from even going outside even though it was nearly impossible to spread outdoors. We instead offered them greasy cheeseburgers.
But they closed gyms, playgrounds, parks and beaches. Where I live, they put caution tape around playgrounds equipment and boarded up the basketball hoops.
You’ve met Americans, haven't you? With the rampant, morbid obesity, do you think they were going to exercise? Further, with all of the comorbidities, beginning to even just walk at that point would have done nothing.
The biggest issue in my opinion was the fact that they decided to give a one-size-fits-all recommendation for the vaccines. People didn't consult their own personal medical professionals and neither did they need to in order to get vaccinated. Instead people went to TV personalities, Late night show hosts, and politicians for their medical health information, not their personal health care providers. I would never have gotten vaccinated from covid if I knew more about these "vaccines". After my second dose of Moderna I was hospitalized for a week because of myocarditis. I would have preferred if they either spread out the doses or lowered the second dose for me (or at least gave different recommendations for different cohorts). I was also required by my university to get vaccinated if I wanted to teach there, so it was either starve, move back in with my parents, or get vaccinated.
I said from the beginning that politicizing it was the problem. The virus doesn't care about anything but surviving, and it does what it does, regardless of your political leanings.
I didn’t have covid, or anything for that matter, nor anyone in my family, yet 24 hours postpartum my husband couldn’t be with me. I was being taken care of my a med surge male nurse. I had a CSF leak and was taking care of a 24 hour old while getting a needle of my own blood in my spine. The government can never repair the trauma the birth had on my family. Pushing out a baby with a mask on is inhumane.
Agreed, while pregnant the mask would make me start passing out thankfully my doctors and nurses cared and I took it off. I was super sick so wearing it wasn’t easy. Pregnant women shouldn’t be wearing masks.
Doctor are supposed to be trained in nurturing patients “autonomy” and not have a “paternalistic approach” approach to patient care. I think transparency by doctors (especially from a government agaency) is king. Great talk y’all
In the 80’s, my parents forgot to get me vaccinated against the measles because we were moving to another country. A year later, I caught it and almost died. I went legally blind in one eye as a result and lost half my body weight. So, measles is no joke and it boils my blood when people say “I’d rather have my kids get the measles than have the jab.”
That's fine for you but that doesn't mean I have to be vaccinated. It's your personal decision. If you feel so strongly about it, be upset with your parents for being so forgetful.
@@user-vh3sb4mg3s She's not talking about your personal choice. She's talking about people who are willing to let their kids possibly die because of their political beliefs. I was never a fan of the COVID vaccine nonsense, but I still agree with her on the measles vaccine.
If repeat infections increase our chances of getting post viral conditions, immune supression, or cardiovascular disease, then "healthy, young people" need boosters. Hospitalization and death shouldn't be the sole focus of public health. Ignoring the role of covid in long term health conditions is also irresponsible and leads to mistrust in science, medicine, and public health.
I teach communication classes and this is what I teach it:
Disinformation- information you know to be untrue but you share anyway to support your goal.
Misinformation- information you think is true but is not.
Misleading information- information that is technically true but is taken out of context thus can lead to incomplete/inaccurate conclusions.
This was very helpful 🙏🏼 Thank you
Ye this seems like the most useful definition of these words. What Mike talked about here was a bit vague
huh.. my own personal definition of dis and misinformation is, truths that are inconvenient to the administration.
Thank you for this clear distinction.
Misleading Disinformation: FOXNews.
When you need medical information, stay away from politicians.
That's the truth 😌....
Or from big pharma. They just want to suck the money out of you.
this is also why politicians shouldn't tell women what they can do with their bodies...especially based on religious beliefs that not everyone even follows
Can we please talk about the fact that the mRNA ‘vaccine’ is a RNA modulator and NOTHING at all like the normal vaccines. That’s where the conversation needs to start.
What is absolutely infuriating about the whole situation is that a lot of people are lumping in FDA/CDC/NIAID with "politicians", when those agencies are run by career professional scientists and doctors.
"Stay home if you are sick" means "get suspended without pay, and lose your health care plan" for a lot of people
america 💯
Depends on the company, some companies offer paid sick leave and where I live (which is not a state but a territory) paid sick leave is mandated by law
@@johnnyc0882depends on the society you live in, whether it's fully AnCap or whether it has some humanity to itself
that is why he said it has to be done in cooperation with companies 🤷♀️ so they also understand they are putting all their staff at risk (and maybe face repercussions)
I think the modified version of this is. If you are sick, wear a mask and wash your hands. This is what Japan has been doing pre pandemic
This is such a bittersweet conversation for me to hear.
On one hand, this video is confirming a lot of my personal opinions from the pandemic. Things like: shutdowns not needing to be so severe and long lasting, that we only needed to target the very young/very old/at risk from underlying illnesses, that the death toll was ridiculously over inflated, etc.
On the other hand.... do you have any idea how enraged I am right now? To hear medical professionals have this conversation so casually now, but in 2020 anyone even daring to question (not protest or be anti-vax) what we were being told about shut downs and vaccines. To have friends, family and coworkers treat you like a Nazi sympathizer for thinking for myself and simply having questions about what is necessary vs fear-mongering-overkill?
You aren’t alone. Never forget.
Do you know how enraged it makes me, to associate with the ignorant conservatives and liberals? I'm talking about the ones that draw conclusions without proof. If their conclusions turn out to be correct, they conclude that they have more knowledge and authority than peer reviewed, carefully executed studies! They often fail to understand that research, by nature, is evolving as they discover new facts. That is not a conspiracy or a plot - it's the nature of doing medical research. The validity of the studies also depends upon the number who participate and that proper procedures are followed. Hence the reason for peer reviews. It has never claimed to be an exact science as new things are constantly being discovered. Finding a quicker path of treatment - ie., the vaccine - in the face of a rare debilitating disease, or a pandemic, is not sloppy medicine. It has always been considered an option when the initial investigation through the FDA, shows that the treatment has more promise for good, rather than losing lives to the disease.
If you make the worst of a bad situation that's your fault. I got to tell people to bleep off and leave me alone so I can better myself in peace and just chill out.
@@SherlockkHolmes What are you talking about? No one said anything about making the worst of a situation.
The swiss ministry of health earned a lot of trust by just answering we don’t know because it’s a new thing. Honest and clear. People mostly listened to the advice. Later turned out that some information was wrong which they admitted. The health minister is retired now but got a standing ovation on his way out. Communication was crucial
Switzerland is not America. Their people, like most of Europe, are mostly well-educated and mentally healthy. US government agencies did say "we don't know" nearly every time they made an announcement or "with what we know now". That is what I, an American, heard. If that one third plus of the US population that only wanted to hear what they wanted to hear by only listening to politicians and others wanting to control that segment, then that is on them. They trusted the wrong sources.
Then the question becomes: How did America end up with such a large population of sheep? It had to do with the original people who left their homes in Europe to colonize America. Why did they leave? Many did so because they were forced out; they were unwanted in their communities, even criminals. Australia began with Britain emptying out their prisons, shipping them to that new world. Then, like with America, better people came later, but genetics do get passed on.
@@virginiamoss7045 no, it was cultural the ones who left were fundamentalist Christians
@@virginiamoss7045 Even IF they said 'we don't know' they didn't act like it. They were too quick to mock/attack people who questioned them... They acted too certain many times. About whether to wear masks or not, about how the virus started and where, about how many people were dying. About when regions opened up vs didn't open up, about when schools should open up and how to run them. About what age groups needed boosters and when, about how effective the vaccines and boosters were, about what should be mandated and how, etc etc. They allowed political theatre to enter what should have been purely scientific/medical reasoning...
@@iamtobler That simply was not my experience as I followed the development of the pandemic over time. The only political theater came from Trump and some Republicans. If you can't tell the difference, that's on you.
@@augustuslunasol10thapostle Some were; maybe they were ousted by British culture as undesireables so they left.
"I was wrong." Three words that every leader, expert and communicator needs to be humble and brave enough to admit. Sure, admitting weakness makes you vulnerable politically but lying will erode your credibility to your allies and to the people you are trying to help. Without trust, you are nothing.
During the pandemic, I followed those who readily admitted when/where they where incorrect, and completely lost respect for anyone who acted infalible in the name of what they called 'science'. Anyone who outright ignores/vilifies dissenting voices is not worth listening to.
Well stated!
This is exactly why we are in this position. Excellent comment!
Often most people have no nuance in their opinions so “I was wrong” can mean they think he’s untrustworthy because they have their own bias to their personal abilities. I have been told by people they will trust those who say the same thing through any evidence to the contrary more than those who change their minds with evidence because they perceived it as constantly choosing an incorrect opinion that will always be corrected when more information comes out, and they preferred a static ideology that claimed to already know the answer. It was heavily motivated by religion but that translates that mode of thought to other l aspects of their life like science and politics.
Perhaps more importantly, "I may currently be wrong"
I am a huge fan of vaccination, but I will not abide public officials lying to me "for my own good" or the public good. You must tell the truth or you lose the right to tell me anything at all.
Can we please talk about the fact that the mRNA ‘vaccine’ is a RNA modulator and NOTHING at all like the normal vaccines. That’s where the conversation needs to start.
Well, they can still tell you whatever they want. You just don't have to listen.
@@Kriddle1229some people would have lost their livelihoods if they didn’t listen, not to mention the social ramifications of being unvaccinated. People were forced in many ways.
The only public officials I saw lying were those trying to downplay the pandemic and cancel the lockdowns.
I agree. There will always be those who don't listen to reason. Don't bend to them by making up stories. There are (hopefully) far more people who understand at least a bit about how science works and just want to know the data. This whole situation was a mess.
How can we sue politicians when they practice medicine without a license?
Serious question.
The same way we sue insurance companies for deciding what test they will not pay for until you’ve tried XY and Z .
AKA practicing medicine without a license. You just can’t.
How is it that an insurance person can tell a doctor what they have prescribe, and what tests to run? It’s all about the $$$$$
Vote vote vote
The issue is both sides would be able to sue
the problem is they are getting their information from the CDC.
If I knew, I would sue them for making reproductive healthcare decisions for women.
I lost trust when the CDC bowed to political pressure to change their recommendations.
I lost trust when my mother was overly radiated and died at Johns Hopkins in 1987. When my father was paralyzed during a back operation and then died of a bowel obstruction while under the care of Johns Hopkins in 1994. HOWVER, the biggest loss was my son in 1989, two days after a DPT vaccine.
They don't educate parents today about the DPT vaccine, but they will recommend a D=tap vax.
@@RandomUserYTisFailing the social distancing recommendations as well as mask recommendations when we still were in a peak.
@@RandomUserYTisFailingSpecifically, the recommendations were nerfed at the behest of the Iowa governor and others close to the meat packing industry. Language was softened from "You must do this" to "We recommend that you try for this..." Rachel Maddow was about the only one on TV who covered this.
@@oliviawolcott8351 and now they are saying that quarantine times should now be seen as the common flu, instead of some world wide deadly disease.
@@oliviawolcott8351+ the efficacy percentage + the safe and effective narrative + ” the once and done ” theme + the data regarding masks effectiveness + stance on natural immunity + goal post moving on herd immunity. We can go on and on
I’m a doctor here in Brazil and it was really hard working in the pandemic, in the middle of the “battle field” and seeing so much fake news and unbelievable political decisions that were being taken.
Hey you better mask up in your profile pic, or my 98 year old abuelita might croak!
Hey did you know Dr. Offit's buddy "Tony" had his wife as his Ethics Chair?
Thank God we had the guy from the 1980s AIDS panic to see us through this crisis. 🙄
You know what I love about these jokers, they can defend a mandate on US citizens while glossing over the vax status of THOUSANDS of people crossing over the border....
BTW the Measles outbreak was in a Sanctuary city...but they still think US citizens aren't taking enough 💉 🙄
Maybe the medical industry would have more credibility if we didn't see "Tony's" stock portfolio.
Public Health = Money Laundering.
@@beneficent2557 Perfectly proved their point I guess... Yikes.
Next, on Notícias da Raposa: Vaccines are bad, and so is education!
Remember, folks: people matter more than opinions. We’re going to agree and disagree - and that’s okay! Things are going to be said that aren’t perfect - that’s okay too! It’s okay to be human and take something different from this message than someone else.
Thanks Dr. Mike for tackling a very sensitive and volatile topic with professionalism and integrity.
It is not okay to agree to disagree when one side is captured by a cult like adherence to government/pharma propaganda.
One side is straight lying.
If one side is saying "poison your children for no tangible benefit" and the other is saying "no," you don't agree to disagree.
Hello, I'm writing here in hope to reach people and Doctor Mike: the comments are being censored and I'm not able to respectfully share my experience. This is really concerning, I trust that Doctor Mike is not aware of this because I know it goes against everything he believes in
@@immafox1496he will stay the propaganda line because he doesnt want to lose his careeer, i warned him about these so called vaccinations years ago and he blew me off. IF you want real information, i suggest you check out Dr. John Campbell, and Brett Weinstein for actual non big government controlled information.
what do you mean "agree to disagree"? -- UA-camIsKillingComments, no disagreement allowed
@@immafox1496 Yep, mine were taken down, so I noticed that as well!
There were highly knowledgeable experts in their fields who were muzzled and maliciously, viscously attacked because they didn’t march in lockstep. That’s the antithesis of a scientific approach. Everyone lost their minds and the damage to trust in government and medical institutions is both deserved and profound.
Maybe because they were giving personal opinions unsupported by scientific evidence. Is that how you believe science works?
@@gribbler1695 they weren’t giving personal opinions and they were from institutions like Stanford, Yale, and Harvard who we know now for certain had it right. They relied on data from studies conducted in Australia, Japan, Korea, etc.
You’re watching a video about things we got wrong. We could have had them correct and done far less damage to children, the economy, and society if we had listened to actual experts who had the data and evidence on their side.
Former NBA player John Stockton is currently suing the state of Washington over this exact issue I'm curious what will come out of it.
@@gribbler1695 No the interference has been swift, calculated and intentionally to cover up or profit.
@@gribbler1695 let's say that this is the case, they are still licensed doctors or other professionals who should at least be considered. Why are they saying the things they are? Where is that coming from?
The inability for government and health organizations to simple say “we don’t know but this is the best options we have based on what we know at this time” has done irreparable damage to science as a whole. We may have won the battle, but we are losing the war. 😢
The next pandemic will be far, far worse.
Not if, but when.
That's on you for conflating Science and Politics. Stop doing that, and learn how to evaluate research. Simple.
Screeching 'trust the science' then asking politicians to ban science they disagreed with tends to form a lot of distrust
@@duncanchestnut5583 mass formation psychosis
I think you are right but I’ve seen the public act poorly when they admit to not knowing and I think this is a reaction to that. People seem to have a lot of misconceptions regarding the certainty of science and the general public often struggle with nuance, even when explained very simply. I think people don’t pay close attention, don’t think deeply, and messages get distorted by the news media.
Take for example when the vaccines first came out there were studies that showed the vaccine prevented symptoms. But because they didn’t perform constant tests for viral antigen they weren’t able to say with certainty that they prevented infection. So the scientists said the vaccines are great at preventing symptoms but we do not know yet if it prevents infection. A lot of people took that to mean they don’t prevent infection. So were they wrong to communicate it this way? Should they instead said it prevents infection even though they didn’t know that for version? I wouldn’t suggest that because it’s important to be honest and I think the reason for the messaging was what it was because they wanted people to continue social distancing. Note this was early on when testing was more difficult and the vaccines were more effective and actually dud a decent job preventing infection as they found out with follow up studies of people regularly resting after vaccination to confirm absence of antigen.
combining politics and science/medicine doesn't clean up politics, it corrupts science/medicine
It's ALWAYS been corrupt. For hundreds of years.
Yep
Taking a larger perspective, I think there are too many people who don’t understand that there’s no such thing as a perfect solution. Everything is risk of harm vs probability of benefit.
If there's no such thing as perfect solution, you can't sell something as undeniable truth and treat anyone who has critical thinking and pose some question as a lunatic deserving to be cancelled and stripped of own social sphere.
It's called fascism and was made this time by the supposed progressives always caring about freedoms and rights.
They showed their true colours. You are free and you have rights only if you act like they want.
The key element is Voluntary Informed Consent, all the mea culpas in the world will NOT make up for Being Complicit in Economic Coercion.
Exactly! This is because of poor science education.
Well sure, if your goal is profit, then you don’t want to kill the virus, and you just let it mutate and be more contagious yet less deadly. That is what happened yes. Then they turned around and said “speed of science” when they supposedly tested it fully and spent billions of tax dollars funding this circle jerk..not perfect but definitely killing the virus will help stop the spread lol and that’s not what they wanted
@@beneficent2557 AGAIN it is consent and there are choices. You not liking the choices or not understanding the choices doesn't mean its not consenting.
As a nurse educator, I drill my students on medications they are administering before we even walk into the patient's room. It's intense but they often appreciate it because they're more confident when answering patient questions. Thank you for mentioning that confidence from the practitioner plays a key role in the patient's trust.
I was bothered by the fact that the Moderna MRNA vaccine didn’t even come with a package insert. I’ve never seen that.
All the nurses were horrible to just about everyone, when covid was going on. Now they see how stupid it was.
Please teach them about their ingredients and how much toxic they are. There is still not a doctor that would answer why childhood vaccines have formaldehyde? Polysorbate 80? Plus the amount of aluminum which is 10x more than what the CDC recommends.
@@editname3145Formaldehyde is used in a lot of processes and is present in our own bodies naturally. We synthesize it and eliminate it without any harm.
Polysorbate 80 is used to help deliver and stabilize some vaccines and medications. It’s also used in a lot of foods and cosmetics, so the tiny amount present in a vaccine should be the least of your worries if you consume any processed foods, wear makeup, or use commercially available soaps.
Finally, aluminum is present to help enhance the body’s response to certain vaccines. The amount present is insignificant considering the amount of aluminum you are exposed to and ingest on a daily basis. I’m not sure what the concern here is
@@editname3145I’m confused by your comment. Aluminum salts are used in vaccines to stimulate a stronger immune response. And I have more in my breastmilk each time I feed my baby than in one vaccine. The “10x” is referring to the recommendation for things like parental nutrition (into the stomach) because intestinal mucosa doesn’t absorb aluminum the same way. Polysorbate 80 is in a lot of the food we eat. And formaldehyde makes vaccines effective without causing disease. It’s heavily diluted and already present in your body naturally.
The COVID-19 era was just... _messed. up._ 😵💫
Trump suppressing things to stay in power, everything is fine! Don’t look behind the curtain!!
And Biden group awfulizing everything and shutting down commerce and human interaction.
John Oliver said the history books should just say "it was a crazy time, had to be there, we tried our best"
@@rsalbreiterProbably the best way to say it. The issue is that this came out of nowhere (well, there was a slight period where it was in China before it went everywhere), and everyone just didn't know what to do.
Can we please talk about the fact that the mRNA ‘vaccine’ is a RNA modulator and NOTHING at all like the normal vaccines. That’s where the conversation needs to start.
It's still not over. Those of us that are immunocompromised are still fucked. I haven't been to a restaurant, a concert, a venue, the movies, a friends house....since January 2020.
So much of the distrust for me could have been avoided if the CDC simply said “I don’t know” instead of saying that masks 100% do not work at the start of covid then did a complete 180 and told everyone they HAVE to wear a mask then later said, “well they’re not really effective”. By the way take this vaccine we developed and has less than a year worth of testing done and you only need to take it once. Then a year a later “by the way take this seasonally like a flu vaccine”.
You could not have said that any better.
CDC never said you only need it once. Flu vaccines are annual. Most vaccines require more than one dose.
Yeah the flip flopping on telling you what to do can be hard for people to trust. But at the same time I think they were trying to give the best info they had at the time. You don’t know what you don’t know….but they could’ve done a happy medium like “hey we think at this time masks don’t help, BUT we aren’t sure. You could still wear one if you want, we’re just not sure how well it helps”
I think overall at the start of the pandemic, we weren’t sure of anything because with anything new, we don’t have all the facts or answers so everyone was going off what we thought we knew at the time, but then we learn we’re wrong or were misunderstanding things.
I think the authorities did say it with appropriate uncertainty. The problem is once it gets repeated through the media and on social media and turns into policies at the local level, what was a "recommendation" becomes "Fauci is forcing us to..."
That's science buddy. Science changes it's mind, based on the available evidence and understanding.
This podcast is why we need scientists and doctors and other people (hello, media!) who actually have people's best interest at heart. The question is how does one find those professionals? Ideally, it would be social media...
As a pharmacist, working through the height of COVID was an utterly embarrassing time to be a healthcare worker. The fall out from our government's mishandling of the COVID response ruined more lives than the virus itself.
Typical american. Blame the government. I blame the american jndividualism and selfishness, but go ahead, i guess
Stop it with the fear mongering.
Not fear mongering, truth@@IntelligentProbe
Just think about it, how many lives would have been saved if they just did nothing?
@@USGrant21st so you didn't watch the video, just more nonsense.
I wish people stopped using the terms "my, your" truth. Truth just simply is (or should be), if you need to add adjectives to it it's NOT TRUTH, it's an opinion, point of view!!!
True...truth is always subjective
what is truth? - Pontius Pilate
@@fennyellis3366 truth is not subjective, truth is an abstract notion (abstract logic), and we live in real world, where any abstraction is at best an approximation of reality. Now, which abstraction better approximates reality -- that can be a big argument.
Subjective "truth" is not truth.
@@tamsolo1584
In science, it is.
To be fair, the Tuskegee experiment still has a lot of impact on trusting government agencies.
as it should be lol
I think about it every single time I'm at a doctor's office or my children.
Unreasonably. Equating a clandestine government operation during a fundamentally racist era of our history to a once-in-a-generation virus with every single pair of eyes in the world on it is objectively wrong.
Doing things in the dark is far different than doing it with literally every single researcher, scientist, doctor, and medical organization in the world collaborating and sharing information.
The government mandated a whole new set of then unprecedented ethics rules and committees that never existed until then after Tuskegee.
@@WMDistractionClearly that did no good.
I live in Washington state and at the time of writing this former NBA star John Stockton is suing the state Of Washington for silencing any doctor who tried to publish an opinion that the state disagreed with. Not silencing people who were pushing crazy stuff out of a basement I mean silencing practicing doctor's and expert's in the field.
Imma pass on this body I'm John Stockton
Um lots of crazy people with MD after their name
I'm from Washington state too.
I am glad you are allowing comments.
Oh, so you don't know then...
That this platform ls
Automatically
Comments
Too many hot topic words together
100% if they had been transparent and not assume we were too dumb to notice some things, I think the state of our country would be very different aside from the COVID related repercussions.
Frankly, the more you censor information, the more fearful it will make people. Teach people to think critically and how to combat untrue information.
Well as a critical thinker why do you think they not reporting all the access deaths world wide of all ages of 10 to 40% not of covid?
Also in the USA, the censoring of any information is a VIOLATION of the law known as the Freedom of Speech.
At least we all got the completely true message that the vaccine is safe and effective, and if you take ivermectin you're a horse.
I wish it was this easy but it isn’t. People can’t be scared of something censorship prevents them from seeing. Fear of the unknown, yes, sure, but if the unknown is a scholarly article then nobody will care. It is also universally agreeable that people should combat untrue information, but who decides what is true? Ironically, it is easy to be uncritical about critical thinking. Things that seem universally good quickly become complicated.
but then how are you going to control them and make money? lambos won't pay for themselves
I know someone who works for home and hasn’t left her house since 2020 due to the panic of Covid. This whole thing has damaged people psychologically.
Covid (SARS) literally causes brain damage. And it's not gone - look at wastewater data. Sorry you've been fooled by your leaders.
While I've left my house and have done public errands, grocery shopping etc (when I WANT to) since Covid... I haven't WORKED in person since 2020 since for my field personally, most employers discovered in-person work of that type is TOTALLY NOT NECESSARY (for my field... it CAN be all mostly remote / online and still be effective). So... saves a LOT on gas, car repairs, AND unnecessary risk of viruses (including common cold viruses and flu viruses that were around WAY before Covid). So such realization, used in a healthy manner at least... could be considered an improvement).
Given that it’s a threat and many immunocompromised people have virtually been locked out of society since others won’t mask or actually disclose their illness, do you blame this person?
By stating that this is a psychological issue, you’re implying that their fear is disproportionate to the actual threat at hand
@@TWForeeever "Immunocompromised people have been locked out of society since others won't mask"... you do realize [I've heard of] studies showing masks only work about 70% (?). I know that's not any excuse for not taking advantage of that 70% effectiveness, but my my point is: If I was an immunocompromised person who had a low risk tolerance... I would NOT trust that 30% mask INeffectiveness... so even IF EVERYONE "masked up" (and even disclosed their illness IF they knew... this virus VERY often spreads BEFORE symptoms appear FYI)... I would STILL be hiding. In fact, I am not even officially "immunocompromised" and I STILL choose to hide! Well not to an "extreme" but I have gotten out of even long lines at the bank try try again another day if I hear anyone cough in the building. And I've modified my breathing habits when I get near people such that if anyone DOES cough while near me, I'll likely be holding my breath at the moment, and will have time to get away from them.
That’s what they want.
“You will eat the bugs and live in the pod, have nothing, and be happy”.
One thing I noticed where I had lived and online was that the political discourse made it extremely hard to have civil conversations and ask questions of peers around you. Almost any hesitancy to take the vaccine or questions about it's safety in children was treated met with social pressure, pushback, and no answers on where to get more information. Of course meeting peoples worries with vitriol only pushed those with questions away and made them more distrusting.
Though I did get vaccinated, I was one of those individuals who had a lot of skeptism, and I can greatly empathize with those who were fearful.
I did not take the vaccine. I'm so glad I stood my ground. But you're right.. even asking a simple question was met with so much hate from armchair doctors
I think the biggest problem with that is that there's a big difference between legit questions about a vaccine and being an antivaxor. The more bigger problem this country which is there is no nuance for discussion. There's only extremes. One of the reasons why most people don't know anything about science because everyone treats all data as absolutes because we learned that from dealing with US law and religious books. So science it does not deal in absolutes but we live in the society that only thinks an absolutes. You either are pro science or anti-vax. You can't be a scientist that has some legitimate concerns about a vaccine then thus wants to see more trials or more clarification. It just doesn't happen.
@@jordanwhite352 -- "legit questions" who is/was the judge on that? mob rule is the answer to that.
So no, I don't you understand. People got threat's by the question "Why, explan that to me" and not just following along. And yes, that was what has happening, I happen to me.
One thing that should be mentioned is that these were NOT traditional vaccines. They are mRNA drugs that generate an immune response. This was a big experiment practiced on billions of people with little public discussion. People were fired and ostracized for simply asking questions. Now we are hearing of possible bad outcomes of exposure to the spike protein (Pfizer) and these people still cannot admit a possible mistake. They only admit to miscommunication. P.S. The rotavirus vaccine IS a traditional vaccine. It is not in the same class as Pfizer’s “vaccine”.
@@jordanwhite352 Your statement that, "there's a big difference between legit questions about a vaccine and being an antivaxor", destroys the possibility of any meaningful, or even civil dialogue with those who disagree with you. Without that you can't have any real nuances, because you don't accept that people who disagree with you may be honest, well-meaning, intelligent and well informed. Try it for a thought experiment.
I learned all I needed to know when politicians and celebrities violated the very decrees they publicly shouted from the rooftops.
"C'mon man" sayeth pedo Joe.
so, even celebrities cant escape anti-intellectual bias. interesting choice of words, dude
That stupid people exist in every cohort? Or that people make stupid mistakes? There's nothing definitive that anyone does that makes a sweeping generalization anything other than a logical fallacy.
I know what you are saying and agree. “Just look around and you can’t deny” yet I saw no such thing here in the inland empire of California….
That’s stupid. That’s like saying if someone smokes while saying smoking is bad it means smoking isn’t bad. Learn some critical thinking skills
Could the lack of trust in the medical community have anything to do with the fact that pharmaceutical companies are publicly traded on the stock market and raises the concern that their priority is to their shareholders and not the patients. Raising cost of insulin and epi-pen for example.
That’s definitely part of it
That's part of it. I think distrust also comes from people's individual experiences with the medical system and the experiences of people they know. There are people who get sick and go to a doctor only to be told it's all in their heads and are dismissed.
They later find out they actually do have a health problem and they were let down by their doctor.
That’s just an America issue.
@@deanmcdougall5331 well yeah, we're talking about America's reaction to the pandemic. It makes sense we're talking about American pharmacology.
Also the fact that since 1986, vaccine manufacturers have been immuine to prosecution. They all decided together and told the govt they would stop making vaccines, unless they passed the law to protect them. Since the US Govt didn't want to risk them following thru on their threat and having to purchase vaccines outside the US, they gave them everything they wanted. Now, why would vaccine manufacturers do that, if they didn't know that their products were dangerous? No other type of medication is protected from prosecution like that. Also, look at how many vaccines were CDC Recommended before 1986 and after 1986, they doubled the amount of shots. Yes, there is a fund set aside for children who are vaccine injured- but it is nearly impossible to actually win that court battle. They only gave into that caveat of the law, since they knew the cost of lawyers was cheaper than paying out lawsuits. It is heartbreaking to read the stories of the families who's children have been severely vaccine injured and continually get denied in court, even tho their children have been diagnosed (sometimes by multiple doctors) as vaccine injured.
These manufacturers value money over people, which is why there are meds that cost tens of thousands of dollars a month. An inhaler w/o prescription coverage is $300-$600, even w/insurance people have co-pays in the 100s.
So it seems that there's an admission here that the public was lied to to make them comply and then derision and confusion because a faction of the public doesn't trust what is being told to them. That doesn't seem too insightful. The fear mongering was absolutely politically motivated to force compliance.
I really appreciate Dr. Mike's pragmatism and general ability to understand this topic from multiple angles, he's great
I agree. As a family general medicine doctor, he interacts with the public. The CDC as well as government don't really interact with the average person. The communication is different when you are only among a limited group. Your colleagues have a different exposure to the messaging and knowledge set.... so communication with people who don't speak the same office jargon as your profession don't understand where you're coming from and when the messaging is obviously dumbed down for the public, the public can sense that and you loose the trust because people sense the messaging isn't quite right.
As a member of the public, I appreciate the nuanced message on vaccines. I hate when public health officials act like the public is stupid and can't handle the truth so they tell an untruth instead of explaining why this is their recommendation and how they expect that recommendation to work.
You Mean Mandate....
Also opinions are reserved for the Fully-Boosted.
I for one love Dr. "Tony" and his Ethics Chair Wife. We should give him the Nobel Peace Prize and a fresh litter of beagles.
Hey did you notice how this video has no timestamps? It's almost like this faux "mea culpa" was rushed out at the behest of someone's lawyers 💀
It must be nice to pretend to larp as an authoritative source while simultaneously avoiding all legal accountability.
@@beneficent2557 You have a mental issue. You should get that checked out.
Offit is propagating nuanced propaganda. There is no comfort in that. What he is actually doing with his fake apology for nothing in particular is doubling down on the use of social psychology and propaganda tools to move the public, becasue in his view, the public are profoundly ignorant and stupid, and incapable of making rational informed decisions about their personal medical care. So, he is committed to stripping you of your right to bodily autonomy and informed consent. He really hates you, but he hates you in a nuanced way.
They weren't 'wrong.' They lied.
Yeah this is bothering me, everyone has memoryholed covid guidance as "they were wrong. But at the time didn't know better" when that is literally not the case. They knew better but lied to the public to try and convince everyone to do what they want.
That's a loaded accusation. Not saying you're wrong or right. But a wide margin act like they're pros in any field with just a quick internet search or listen to folks talk about any given subject. The only true fact is "we don't know." Saying anything else with such certainties is muddying the waters of an already silted up river and doesn't help. We need to remember to focus on what we know and go from there.
🐂💩 they lied to make money anybody who denies that now must be on their payroll@@joshuameeks3689
@@joshuameeks3689 they only made billions
@nelsontragura1441 No, they didn't 😊
What is the logic of mandating a vaccine that did not significantly stop transmission?
From the BMJ: Most studies show if you got an infection after vaccination, compared with someone who got an infection without a vaccine, you were pretty much shedding roughly the same amount of virus,” says Paul Hunter, professor in medicine at the University of East Anglia. One study, sponsored by CDC, found “no difference in infectious virus titer between groups” who had been vaccinated and had not.
And why mandate a vaccine to everyone, when not everyone's risk/benefit analysis is the same. For example, an 20 yr old man has less to benefit (due to the high frequency of adverse effects compared to other vaccines), than a 70 yr old, were the vaccines provided huge benefits compared to the risks.
Almost no vaccine completely stops a disease. That is NOT the point. The point is that it DID absolutely massively reduce severe cases and deaths across people of all ages. THAT was the goal because Covid wrecked all great health care systems. And it worked
@@metalpuppet5798if you actually look at the low data pools they used to acquire this information - and if you look at all the unvaccinated - not infected they pulled from the pool for various reasons, and the vaccinated who got severe covid - that they didnt count and removed from the pool…. you would understand this topic more.
im sure you havent actually read the data and full studies that were released….
but maybe you should instead of just believing propaganda
It has nothing to do with virus shed they were trying to prevent hospitalization and death
@@danarzechula3769 (4th attempt, my comments keep getting deleted) Yes, it was about X-mission, the cdc director and f@uci keep repeating that the j@xx stopped x-mission. The media an authorities kept repeating "nobody is safe until everybody is safe". Bad diet and no exercise are the leading causes of heart disease, which is the leading cause of hospitalization and death in the US even higher than co--v--id, yet they don't m@nd@te exercise and good diet because it's an individual's choice if they want to take care of themselves as it does not affect others, just like getting the cov j@xx since you can still spread it, it's about protecting oneself. So, forcing people to take it, had no scientific reason.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
Idk who said it, but I agree.
I looked that up thinking it might be Shakespeare, or similar. The French Abbot, Bernard of Clairvaux, said something that translates as "Hell is full of good wishes or desires" in the early 1100s. In 1670 "Hell is paved with good intentions" was a known proverb. The current version was listed in a book of proverbs in 1855.
@@EinsteinsHair interesting 🤔 I like people that actually seek out knowledge, just for the sake of knowing. That's right up my alley. It's funny how many popular sayings end up being a misquote of something else.
I don't think they had good intentions and that's the real problem. They are already getting ready to roll out a bird flu vaccine in they can get away with it.
The answer to your question of how you stop misinformation is not to censor it. We need to teach kids in schools to be critical thinkers. Not just to take what everyone tells you as fact. How to evaluate information and trace it back to sources. Don't take someone's regurgitation of the info as fact. Go as close to the source as possible. If you ban the conversation, it will cause mistrust of those causing the ban. If an organization wants to be trusted, they must tell the truth and over time they will build a trusted image.
There’s a fascinating report called “The Firehose of Falsehood” put out by RAND.
Worth a read.
Short version - if people are overloaded with options they will fall back on what their peers want to hear and stop caring about what’s true.
Problem is conspiracy theorists, especially anti-vaxers don’t have the capacity for critical thinking or source assessment.
This is what I say all the time, but the issue is that it will never happen unless an incredible complete overhaul of how the internet works and the education system as a whole happens. And something needs to happen to give people the free time to pursue knowledge about this- people aren't gonna just stop having opinions about things they don't know about, so they need the time to research info if this ideal future were to come about realistically... so realistically it just won't happen.
It’s a slippery slope. Like his RFK example where 84 kids died and 5500 people got sick with measles.
How do you plan on doing that when kids are homeschooled or going to religions school?
What's the plan until only kids who were taught critical thinking are left? Cuz right now, there are still a lot of people who arent kids, who do not possess critical thinking and have an effect on others. What about them?
17:45 I paid close attention to vaccine trials and research, am married to a doctor and have a biomed engineer for a sibling. Most of our extended family came to us for answers and clarification. When we told them the nuances, they looked to the public messaging, especiallythe contradiction of democrats who were questioning how well it was made like Kamela Harris under trump and them immediately switched up under biden. Because of the hard sell and politicization by the gov, they shifted to wondering if they went as far as lying about the data too, so people that were informed would be tricked too. The government failed us from top to bottom during the pandemic. Thats where the loss of trust comes from
Thank you for bringing this up as I remember clearly Ms. Harris, Hilary Clinton, AOC, Nancy Pelosi and many other democrats (the party I am affiliated with btw) denouncing the vaccines, the trails, saying it was rushed to market, explicitly not trusting Project Warp Speed all because it was associated with Trump. They were the original political anti-vaxxers and the left leaning media spread that message until Biden was in office and they flipped on a dime. It was reprehensible because they were busy playing politics, during a global pandemic, that many of them profited off of, instead of being there for the people.
So since you know about this what are the effects of the shot that has spread? Good or bad?
Well said, when you are second guessing the 'data', where does that leave you?
In EU we were only considered vaccinated if we did one of the american/british vaccines. The chinese or russian one didn't count. Our friend worked in a hotel in UAE, and when he returned to EU he had to be vaccinated again to get a covid pass, otherwise he'd be jobless. There was no workaround (eg antibodies testing). How medical is it to impose two vaccinations to someone? if anyone tells me there was any data of the above being safe, I will laugh. Oh, and he signed a waiver. My belief to this day, is that most governments made decisions against public health. The most laughable is giving a "pass" to vaccinated people, although vaccines didn't sterilize you from the virus.
Nah, take your measles vaccine. Take the majority of vaccines. Don't go off shoring viral research and then try to cover it up with a technology that's been privatized.
The challenge with blocking misinformation/disinformation is who gets to decide. History has countless cases where the one decenting voice that got called false was true... hand washing during surgery, fat vs sugar, lead gasoline.
I think you have to allow it all to be debated and proved/disproved.
True and that's what they didn't do. The history was right and everyone else was wrong
Thank you fellow rational human. There are so very few of us. The way to correct misinformation is with correct information, not censorship.
"In order to get people to get it, we had to...we made statements that just weren't true"
Doctor Mike supports medically lying to the public?
Honestly it's really frustrating that "go back to work" is prioritized in a country that doesn't have free healthcare and where employers are predatory toward their employees. Go back to work when you're actually feeling better. It took me a month to get over COVID the second time. I'm still coughing. If I had to be driving to work it would have taken longer.
Actually... SO many people do NOT realize that healthcare is NEVER overall "FREE". Even where "healthcare ITSELF" seems "free", it is STILL COSTING those, even SAME, people, either money from their OTHER sources (like upfront out of their paychecks)... OR it's costing OTHER people money even if it's not costing money for certain people. SOME such people do realize that, BUT I always wish to clarify the semantics so they don't forget how things actually work.
Were you 'vaccinated'?
@sathvamp1 I don't think you realize how misled you are. For instance, the US spends more TAXPAYER money per person on healthcare than any other country. People THEN spend more employer money on healthcare than any other country, and still in many cases have higher deductibles than any other country. While countries with heavily socialized healthcare result in people seeking treatment *earlier*, when it's *cheaper*, and negotiating better rates with pharmaceutical companies so they pay less total for the medication. So overall FREE doesn't mean completely free, but it does frequently result in substantially LESS money being spent, even by the taxpayer, and results in life expectancies nearly 10 years longer than the US where it costs more than any other country in the world, at all levels. It's not a case of just shifting the cost from the individual to the taxpayer, it's actually just cheaper (for literally EVERYONE) AND more effective.
The lack of 'free' healthcare in the US for many people actually results in more of other people's money being spent on emergency care that need not have even been an emergency if those people had access to healthcare earlier. The private system also results in people paying more just in deductibles for the same medications vs other systems where the taxpayer pays it all at a much much lower rate..
Le me guess you are living in an third world country? Like what did u expect?
@@Nicogs Uuuhhhh actually I assumed he was talking about the USA (I live there).
Maybe you should have some of the Dr's who spoke up and out on the responses and risked their careers by following data over pharma/gov orders.
Some of the doctors were crazy AND NOT following the science. Its why some nurses got fired as well as doctors. If your not going to pay attention to the updated science THEN WHY be in the medical field? ANYBODY in the medical field also have to have vaccines every year because they are around patients. ITS NOT new. Even going to college they make sure you are up to date before even getting in the program.
As someone who was part of the COVID-19 vaccine rollout and someone with a master's in public health, I was really frustrated by a lot of CDC's response to COVID-19 (not the actual employees and the amazing work that they did but the people leading CDC). The directors we had were a) not trained in communications and b) were telling people what they thought they wanted to hear.. that doesn't mean this information was unavailable though! everything is on CDC's site including the fact that the vaccine doesn't 100% prevent mild infection and things like that... HOWEVER because that wasn't frequently stated on tv and stuff, that left me and other public health people with the job of explaining to people we vaccinated that no the vaccine really did work even though you got a mild infection.. the vaccine protects you from hospitalization and death... of course these people then felt really surprised and sort of maybe misled... my team and even myself as a person all lost a lot of the trust and respect we had because of directors that made certain choices.. we are still working to get that trust back.
I think the media and the government need to stop treating the general public as though we cannot understand complex issues. Transparency and honesty are the best ways to help our public be informed and *participate* in the solution.
exactly, who are them to tell us what we should be doing when we know how to take care of ourselves
The public genuinely doesn't understand complex things that's why they don't say thing as they are.
Yes and I will still make the best personal decision for me thank you very much
Except the general public does NOT understand complex medical information or this wouldn’t have turned political. It would have ONLY been a public health issue and people would have vaccinated themselves and their families. Instead we had every lay person acting like they understand immunology and pandemics. Thanks to politicians….
@@BygoneT so you are saying you are stupid in Northern America since my government told us everything
That was a phenomenal conversation to watch, especially as a medical student. Terrific display of understanding nuance in medicine and giving advice on conveying important health measures to the public despite ever-changing data. I loved every second of it!
This is probably my favorite episode yet. Two really compassionate, educated, and honest individuals. Thanks so much!
Hi Dr. Mike, I am a recent graduate who wants to become a certified chemical engineer. I have been watching your videos since the COVID pandemic and I just want to say THANK YOU because have been a huge help to everyone who needs information on health, culture, medicine, myths, etc. I have learned plenty by watching your videos and I was also fact-checked by them on some things I thought I knew. I would like to, in the future, become a UA-camr who makes videos about industrial processes, more related to chemical production, refineries, oil transformation, and also on safety prevention (CHAZOP, HAZOP, FMEA, risk assessment, etc).
Nowadays, with all the incidents occurring in chemical plants and other facilities, the need for medical information is important more than ever. I do not know if my comment will ever be seen, but I would like to know your comments on that (from a medical standpoint). Not only the risks but also the medical causes and effects of said accidents. Thank you!
Public health has always treated its audience as idiots. They never trusted their audience with the strict truth, and tried to suppress disagreements with their narrative rather than holding an open discussion. They never tried reporting real science, which amounts to as much information as possible. They only acted on behavior change, not education.
💯
Public Health was CREATED at Johns Hopkins in 1917 by Rockefeller funding and then again in Jerusalem in 1918. Johns Hopkins is still a "Public Hospital" meaning you do NOT need insurance to be treated and they have financial assistance that ranges from free to low-cost health.
ELIMINATING every NATURAL born bloodstream in the world.
"Public health has always treated its audience as idiots"
Well? Were they proven wrong? 😂
@@labtechtechexactly.
Same point my point exactly
26:14 I wish air quality had been pushed harder. Improved air quality in public spaces would have been a net good in a bunch of different ways and it wouldn’t have infringed on anyone’s bodily autonomy. If we’d put air purifiers in every classroom so schools would stay open that would probably have helped lower rates of all respiratory infections and would help with the (increasingly regular) wildfire smoke pollution. Heck if done right it could have even been great for the economy!
It was and is in Germany. My kid’s classroom has a monitor and they frequently open the windows. I’m at the university and windows were opened for 5-15 minutes every hour (yes even in the winter).
100% agree. We ran UV air cleaners around the clock at our house. Public spaces should have been REQUIRED to of had UV air purifiers every X amount of square feet.
My kids are in private school and put air purifier every where they reopened school in fall 2020 to get students back to school
@@rl42382 My law school also redid the entire air filtration system before fall 2020
So true
I think they were talking specifically about the Covid vaccine when they said all the other countries except Canada target high-risk groups, but as a Canadian I just wanted to mention:
Our annual flu vaccines used to be targetted to high risk groups, I think partly because we didnt have the volume of vaccines, or the capacity to administer them, to the full population. With Covid, in BC at least, our vaccines were rolled out to high-risk people _first_ as a priority, but were ultimately made available to everyone.
I think you spelled ‘mandated’ wrong.
@@kdn142 People could choose not to get them, but they were not permitted to be in businesses where other people would be exposed to them, even if the business was their workplace. I think it could reasonably be argued that it was effectively mandatory, but if I recall correctly it was never _technically_ mandatory.
I love how you froze the bank accounts of truck drivers. Your Fidelito PM is an inspiration to the world.
@@sydneyyoung7352 at least most authoritarian regimes like Russia have the balls to be overt with their heavy-handed policies.
I knew a PHD student who was failed in retaliation for refusing to get the vaccine. One of his professors threatened to punch out anyone who watched jordan peterson in his classroom.
Your effete government's constant victimhood cudgel is pathetic. Trudeau belongs in prison.
@@beneficent2557 first: I don't have that kind of power.
The Canadian federal government froze the back accounts of 57 individuals and organizations, some of whom were truckers, to end blockades at Canadian border crossings and the gridlock of parked commercial trucks and trailers shutting down part of Ottawa (for I think over two weeks?) That sounds like a very non-violent way to pressure the convoy to disperse, to me.
The protesting truckers did not have to get vaccinated, but there were very disruptive public safety measures they had to comply with if they refused, which would have made it impossible to do the exact same job in the exact same way they had pre-pandemic.
While Canadians had some privileges taken away during the pandemic in the interest of public health, adults do have bodily autonomy and may refuse vaccines.
If you want people to trust the medical profession, then maybe don't act like you know more than you do. Also, don't deceive, bribe, coerce, or otherwise manipulate people into doing something that they really do not want to do. Just a thought.
But there are a lot of people who know more than you do. It might just be you have an ego problem?
@jordanwhite352 they certainly didn't seem to actually know more than me when they told me initially that a medical product would guarantee that I cannot become infected with a certain infectious disease only for them to have to walk that back a few months later. In fact, that was a pattern I discovered time and time again. Information that I was being given by ostensible professionals and experts turned out to be less than accurate months later. It wouldn't be such a big deal, except for the fact that people's livelihoods, careers, and reputations were destroyed over all of this horrendous advice as government officials ceded their authority to unelected bureaucrats. Also, similarly qualified experts with different advice from that being offered by the "approved" experts were ignored, suppressed, and smeared. There's no excuse for any of this.
@@jordanwhite352 mate, you want everyone to lay down their rights just because the governmental agencies coercing them might "know more than they do?" Why have any rights at all?
@@pata-tata557 and again, this is exactly what the right wing did during age hell before they knew how age was transmitted every conservative Christian promoted and war masks because they're only interested in a disease when it's an interest to their bullshit and not when it actually matters.
@@pata-tata557 I'm fine with people having their own rights as long as they're not impacting others. That ends when your rights impact my rights. It's the same thing when untrained individuals who *think* they know more than the professionals want everyone else to lay down their rights because of their *rights* which are based on nonsense.
Oh these comments gonna get spicy. Grab the popcorn 🍿
First and Fr
True. 🍿
Not me actually eating popcorn rn
Real tho
I’m SO ready !🍿🍿I’m also hungry.
All you need to know about the pandemic is who made out with the most money. That will give you almost all the answers you need to understand it.
Dr. mike never mentions Event 201. He never mentions the WBAN. He never mentions Covid symptoms are the same as radiation sickness.
Exactly 💯
For a novel virus you need a novel way to launder taxpayer $$.
Yes. Follow the money and find the truth.
You mean the people who told you vitamin C or other ”natural” bs would cure it? they made a f-ton of money scamming and spreading disinformation
I swear, the Covid-19 era was just felt like a multi-year long fever dream….or acid trip.
"was"? a third of the country just got it in Dec-Feb.
Felt like I was living in Nazi Germany
I shook Covid off after a long weekend. (Assuming the stupid PSA test was accurate).
@@schex9 at least the trains ran on time. These jokers can't do anything.
@@schex9 I must have missed the part when people were rounded up and executed?
Lack of transparency, lack of humility, calling out when youry wrong, all reasons many people pushed back.
that and "many people" are morons looking looking for any flimsy excuse not to be inconvenienced in any way whatsoever.
I almost died from COVID in 2021, so this was a very interesting video. Glad to see Dr. Mike having a real conversation about it.
Two of my colleagues had their parents die as soon as they caught it. They could have retired and lived a few more decades.
bahahahaha no you didn't
@@vampiric4realSo COVID is not real to you but *vampires* are?
@@danusdragonfly6640 they're a troll, ignore them
Curious if you received any vaccines?
Trust takes forever to build, and it's gone in an instant
It was gone at the moment our patience is running thin.
I disagree with many of the points that were made here, but I am grateful to see them being discussed in a logical manner and with an appreciation for why the pushback happened which isn't laced with hysterics and insults. This is a major step towards understanding and mending the rift that abuses of power like the pandemic created.
What is it you disagree with
@@sepehrheidari8352 That's bait.
@@TanyaSapienVintage only if you want it to be. Looks like an honest question to me
100%. If the CDC came out and said, "We thought this would work... we now believe this..." would have worked much better on most of the population. Me included. Most humans were intelligent enough to know this was something NEW to our population, so a level of error is expected.
Nope. Whenever they admitted mistakes, they would get even bigger backlash from conspiracy theorists.
I didnt get to say goodbye to my father while he was dying from cancer during the height of covid. They government can never give me that back.
Sorry to hear brother. That certainly could not have been easy.. hope you are well.
@@SternalJet I've been doing but I don't think I'll ever not feel incomplete due to them taking that away from me.
@@TexasChoadHouse69who is "them?" Define.
@@E_Don the people who made the rules in the state of New York that said I couldn't enter the hospital as my father was dying and threatened to arrest me had I tried.
I hope your pain goes away. Everyone is gonna die some we will die and nevee get to tell by to our loved ones and some will die with their loved ones right beside them. Regardless of whar your faith was, do good at regards of ur dad. Donate in regards of ur dad, pray if u believe. Thats gonna benefit him more.
This is coming from a completely scientific point of view. I’m a long term nurse that works with a worldwide population. I’m not sure if the breakdown of our medical system or what part of covid has impacted my patient population but I have seen accelerated cancers, accelerated Parkinson’s, and other rare autoimmune diseases. I honestly have no idea why I have been seeing this trend but I hope our medical community has the opportunity to heal so we can work together to improve our medical system and the way we disseminate information. The pandemic has challenged my love of medicine. I really enjoyed the content of this interview I will be interested to read the research in the next ten years.
I felt deeply for the medical staff, doctors, nurses, during COVID. My heart broke repeatedly for all of you. I worked with special needs kids in the school system and that is a story of it's own. It certainly showed the worst and best of humanity. 💜
The Trend? Its the jabs 😮
You are not the only medical professional who questioned the science and the health institutions during and after the pandemic. Reusing masks! Wearing garbage bags! Replacing well-tested vaccine technologies with the novel mRNA technology!
You had a ~2 year period where people were avoiding hospital visits like the plague (forgive my choice of words). Of course you're going to suddenly see people coming in with more advanced disease when they've been given ample reason to avoid preventive screenings or in-person visits to manage/investigate symptoms of chronic diseases.
@@judymills2362 I am honestly open to any research but have noted things over these last few years in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals that I hadn’t seen previously. I would love to see more research into the virus I just wish it wasn’t such a political position because most healthcare workers just want healthy patients and to provide good guidance. The mistrust and division this has caused just makes me so sad to see. Being over a facility when this hit I keep hoping the ripple effects to stop which I understand is naive and simplistic.
At least here in Brazil (a country which copied the US very closely, like a child imitating a cartoon), the distrust began when the government started mandating things. Brazilians love vaccines, we're one of the most vaccinated countries out there. However, people were fleeing the covid19 vaccine because it was forced upon them, which reinforces the idea that "Good ideas don't require force".
98% of the comments under this video are saying things that would have been censored and/or harshly criticized during the pandemic by the government, media, and social media platforms. That right there is a huge reason why trust was lost.
YES
Never forget, it was becoming totalitarian
no amnesty
no quarter
"we made a mistake" and destroyed lives... businesses and economies.
I learned more in the first 20 minutes of this video than in the last 4 years. I can't believe this is 2 hours. Fantastic interview!
That’s the beauty of looking back.
go back to cia basement troll
@@hackerkiller2131Facts
Don’t believe everything said in this interview.
@@triciacofman4716 Care to elaborate?
I certainly felt reassured watching nurses dance on tik tok after being told i couldnt visit my grandfather
What are they supposed to do? Sit at their computers miserable and overworked? Do you have any idea what they had to go through? Everyone needs a way to cope with things so it doesn’t destroy their mental emotional and physical health. It isn’t just about you. No one could visit family members. A lot of healthcare workers couldn’t even be around healthy family members. You were not the only one affected. Quit playing the victim.
@@maddilong135 How do you learn a dance routine while overworked?
If I had a bad shift at work and you came up to me to ask me to join a tik tok dance I'd kick you through a door.
@@maddilong135for example, in England, they shut NHS medical system for anything apart from Covid in 2020-21, so many other illnesses were not treated and people dare still struggling and are dying from this undiagnosed conditions.
@@maddilong135 You are completely missing the point.
The point is, all those medical services should not have been cancelled, and the public shouldnt’ have been scared away from hospitals. Mental and emotional and physical health were destroyed for too many people. It wasn’t worth it.@@maddilong135
Public Health knows really well that to reduce STDs you don't just tell the public "don't have sex", but when it came to covid they used that strategy. So strange
I believe it was the fear for older people and they were over cautious on their part.
Only have sex outdoors
People with health issues and over 60 years of age should be vaccinated if they wish so. Don’t push it on young people with good immune systems.
I had Covid and must say I have had colds hit me more.
If you are sick stay home and recover.
not how it works. immune systems arent an end all be all, some systems are good against covid some arent doesn't mean that these systems were bad, just imperfect. which is why vaccinating everyone is important. also not vaccinating young people will increase the chance of transmitting it to older people, even if the old people were vaccinated, and allows the virus to mutate further causing the vaccines to be less effective over time.
if you know how the flu vaccine works then you would know that the flu mutates every year. causing doctors and researchers to make vaccines for the new mutant.
What infuriates me is doctors and healthcare professionals and those with common sense and the ability to think critically would say something "they" didn't like, they would be punished and ostracized and silenced and then a few months later "they" would come out saying the same thing...
Such as?
@@jordanwhite352are you serious? Here’s some examples; non at risk populations probably don’t need to vaccinate. Exercise and sunlight combined with a healthy diet is probably the best way to prevent severe cases in non at risk populations, social distancing doesn’t make any sense(that ones now been admitted), not allowing people to be with their dying loved ones is cruel and unhelpful, I’m doubtful of the effectiveness of this new vaccine technology, I’m doubtful that I need to vaccinate, I’m doubtful that masks are effective. There are alternative, cheap, readily available treatment regimens that may be very effective for many people.
@@jordanwhite352 I've also been waiting for an example but I guess after a week, none is forthcoming. It infuriated ME during Covid that far too many nurses were giving bad advice to people to not get vaccinated and were being listened to due to their title of "healthcare professional". Yes, most lost their jobs but not soon enough and they had far too many supporters. "Healthcare professionals" can be just as stupid as the general public by not following the science to where it leads.
The classic moment when you scroll down far enough in the comments section of a covid UA-cam video to start getting the antisemitic dogwhistles
@@flortho2440That's because generally those examples tend to be flagged and deleted by UA-cam algo.
Take it from me. I know about it very well. UA-cam won't let me share. Oh well
Seems to me someone is lying here!
Yeah
What is also severely messed up is telling people " get vaccinated or lose your job" that is super messed up. There was no choice for letting people decide what they wanted for themselves
the government doesn't do anything to cut the junk food in the market. This leads to people having a very poor immune system. That should be the priority instead of forcing people to get a jab of a new vaccin untested in the long term.
The trust was already on the block and they will never get it back. How do you communicate it? Stop trying to complicate it! Be direct be honest be transparent
They are! But doctors and scientists are surrounded by a bubble of politicians and reporters who communicate the doctor's message, and that is where things go wrong.
Except your Americans are known to go hog wild when a medical institution says “ i dont know” because your general population has sooo many misconceptions about science
I dont think he really understands what bodily autonomy means to some people. He argued neatly, but not in a way that will really hit and change the mind of people with that understanding. By not addressing it adequately it will mainly just polarize further.
It took long enough for this realization to appear. It will probably take 20 years for trust to be regained. And yet, public health doubles down on compliance (NOT consent) through fear and coercion.
public health was doing that because people weren't masking and staying home etc, what do they do when half the country was still out and about and getting infected every day, the virus doesn't care about your consent
People have been arguing against vaccines for well over a hundred years now. Those groups now have an example of the ENTIRE medical establishment enforcing arbitrary and completely made up on the spot rules and standards to throw into the face of anyone arguing with them.
What makes you think this distrust is ever going to be fixed. The people whose lives were ruined or otherwise disrupted will likely never forget. If ever, it will take the ENTIRE current living population being replaced for trust to go back to normal. Though I'd hesitate to define "forgetting" as regaining trust.
Many people couldn't even say goodbye to their DYING FAMILY.
Expect more to be unearthed. It's a looong history.
Meanwhile, kids die. Their parents are vaccinated. The kids can't choose for themselves.
When the executive branch overreaches 😢
@@Sighing-xo7yt It will never be regained. The system will collapse before long
:) I appreciate Paul Offit and didn't know about him before this video. I really appreciate how scientifically minded he seems to be and how he tries to note his & others mistakes, and looks to improve himself through those mistakes. Thank you for the mature conversation Mike :)
When people who were living with HIV/AIDS died, it was reported as ‘died from complications due to HIV/AIDS.’ A distinction without a difference. If the person wasn’t living with HIV, the subsequent illnesses would likely not have come about.
Same thing with COVID. I remember my patients being afraid to go to the hospital because the number of cases had been inflated. In some, or most, cases people didn’t die from COVID (or complications due to); they just happened to have COVID when dying. I believe the disinformation was meant to scare people into staying home or getting the vaccine.
If they would have likely survived without COVID, then it's fair to say they died of COVID. The reason reports say "died from complications due to HIV/AIDS" is because HIV doesn't kill people directly - it weakens their immune system and makes them far more likely to die from other diseases. But it's fair to say "died of HIV/AIDS" in that case.
Imagine a scenario where a young, healthy individual who has already recovered from Covid is mandated by the state and government-funded institutions to receive two to three vaccines to attend college. This is profoundly unjust, irrespective of one's stance on vaccination. Such a policy is not justifiable and evokes strong feelings of anger. Consider how you would feel if professionals in a different field, such as mechanics advising on car brakes, were to dictate government policy with the same level of chaos and uncertainty as seen with Covid. Would you accept being mandated to drive with your children in a car equipped with new brake technology, despite doubts about its safety and efficacy? The mishandling of the Covid situation, coupled with experts gaslighting the public and shifting blame for their failures, is utterly infuriating.
Well said 👏 👏 👏 👏
Are you now getting mad over a imaginary situation?
Your analogy is bullshit edit it out
@@augustuslunasol10thapostle No 😊
I got fired from my job . Still not vaccined.
There was a significant amount of politicization of COVID during the pandemic. This is what made people mistrusting of the government and of medical institutions.
It wasn't doctors who made it political.
It was politicians who made it political
You suddenly forgot how big of a part you played in that broken medical system. Dont act like the hero now.
I stopped watching him during covid because he was pushing nothing but propaganda. Not a doctor I would go to. But, I have recently made my way back to his videos. The guy he's interviewing is a quack too.
I agree to disagree on some points of this talk, but this civil, earnest conversation is what is so desperately needed in medicine!! Thank you, Dr. Mike. Please have a similar conversation with Dr. John Campbell.
Why? He's a misinformation specialist.
Yes please. At the beginning of the pandemic, I was following Dr. Campbell. Then, when he started going down the “Ivermectin is safe and effective for COVID” path…my eyes were opened! I no longer follow him.
Campbell went with the money @@rongracilla6164
He's a doctor of nursing with expertise in education, not a medical doctor or researcher. He's been brainwashed by conspiracy theorists.
"Dr" John is not a doctor.
He has already been debunked numerous times.
But I'm sure he appreciates the continuing viewership of millions of suckers like you.
I actually got myocarditis after I got the second vaccine(against my will). Im glad this was brought up. I think it's way more common than he thinks it is or was tho
You can't get myocarditis.
You develop it. It's not a disease, it's a disorder.
Is that permanent?
you are unfortunately not the only one.
The virus didn’t bring the country to its knees. Governmental policies did. I worked in a lab that tested for influenza, RSV and COVID. In September 2020, we stopped testing for influenza and RSV because all resources went to COVID. OF COURSE influenza/RSV numbers are going to go down when we’ve stopped testing for it,
Okay now apply this same logic to COVID now. Everyone is so close to understanding.
COVID mitigations are ultimately nonexistent now because no one is testing for it, yet here we are five years later in a pandemic with an average of 24% of Americans suffering from long COVID (post viral illness) and about 1000 Americans still dying. Testing isn’t encouraged, so people remain under the impression that COVID is not something to be concerned about
We didn't stop testing for those in Australia, and we also eradicated Covid for most of the pandemic period despite enormous amounts of testing (including wastewater testing that will pick up if even one person in the treatment catchment has Covid). All viruses went down, which shouldn't be a surprise, international travel is a huge source of things like influenza. And a few week 'break' in the chain of transmission of many other viruses stops them dead. So your anecdotal evidence is kind of worthless when there's provable large scale evidence to the contrary. Perhaps the biggest reason Covid was able to be eradicated in Australia was government support for people that had to stay at home, they were not forced to work or starve if sick.
Turns out covid was the cure for everything else. What wonderful people we have lording over the little people. Good thing they are paid so well.
Interesting. Our labs not only kept testing for it, but expanded to a panel of over a dozen viruses that were normally not tested for pre-pandemic, ranging from RSV, rhino-entero, and non-covid coronaviruses.
Vaccine should have never been mandated. If you are healthy your immune system is your best asset.
Not true. If everyone got vaccinated far less would be sick and it wouldn’t spread like wildfire.
"How do you debate someone like that?" You don't because you can't. You can't debate with willful ignorance anymore than you can reason with crazy. Good call to walk away from that one.
Just cowardice.
You bring the studies in hand and show it during the debate. Really not difficult.
As someone who watches lots of debates, the best way I've seen to deal with people jumping from wrong statement to wrong statement ("Gish Galloping") is to simply ask a question that you know the answer to, that you know they know the answer to, that disproves something they said. And don't progress the conversation until they answer it.
i.e. "the sky is red, the sea is purple, the grass is blue" "Ok so then why is it that in all of human history it's been depicted as blue, blue, and green?"
edit: i'm a new grad RN who uses this and Motivational Interviewing when trying to get people to slow down and discuss one thing at a time
This is very interesting, where did you learn this. I’d love to read a book on this kind of thing
You say simply but that would be incredibly challenging for me. But then, there's a reason I hate debating.
@@BeeWhistler simple doesn’t always mean easy.
Colors categorization is just that and the human eye receptors and brain work differently from human to human. We only can give a general light wavelength of each nouns mentioned to say what they are, what they are is different than how people perceive it. One is objective to the subject, one is perception of the subject.
Yeah the iconic example of this in public discourse these days is the question “What is a woman?”
Having already had two very mild cases of Covid, I felt that the risk to me was minimal and therefore the only true reason I would be getting the vaccine was for political or economic (my job) reasons. I refused on principle to inject anything into my bloodstream for any reason other than medical. It had everything to do with government overreach. Though in general, I think the vaccine is good and those who need it should get it.
You compare eating dna and nanograms of dna in traditional vaccines to that from injections from mrna vaccines with nanolipid particles with aluminum adjuvants that easily cross the blood brain barrier. There are many studies proving the exact point that he tries to refute with false analogies
Man. Dr. Mike talking about not getting together for thanksgiving reminds me of CDC and safe sleep recommendations WHICH I WAS ACTIVELY A PART OF. When I had my first child he would not sleep on his own, in any way shape or form. I knew what the safest sleep environment for him was, but WTF do you do when your child doesn’t sleep in that environment? I had to research the deep corners of the internet to figure out what the heck to do, because what we were doing was waaay less safe than “safe” cosleeping.
Children don't want to.sleep on their own...it creates anxiety issues most carry into adulthood...
At some point I figured I was more likely to kill us falling asleep behind the wheel than my baby was to die during cosleeping with precautions.
The US is the only country that pushes the narrative that cosleeping id inherently dangerous.
Dr Offit is a rare voice of balance, reason and equanimity on this. I wish he could have been heard more during the midst of the pandemic.
Remember when they tried getting people to get vaccinated by offering free cheeseburgers? Exercise would have been a good recommendation before they even rolled out the vaccines.
"It was observed that physical exercise could be a protection factor against the disease in the majority of studies. This protective factor was related to cases of death, improved lung function, and reduced symptoms of the disease."
But no. We banned people from even going outside even though it was nearly impossible to spread outdoors. We instead offered them greasy cheeseburgers.
But they closed gyms, playgrounds, parks and beaches. Where I live, they put caution tape around playgrounds equipment and boarded up the basketball hoops.
In my area, they gave out COVID testing kits at liquor stores! As if depression and addiction wasn’t bad enough during the pandemic…
What are you even quoting or referencing?
@@TWForeeever What is unclear in these examples?
You’ve met Americans, haven't you? With the rampant, morbid obesity, do you think they were going to exercise? Further, with all of the comorbidities, beginning to even just walk at that point would have done nothing.
This man is so unbiased and I really appreciate that
The biggest issue in my opinion was the fact that they decided to give a one-size-fits-all recommendation for the vaccines. People didn't consult their own personal medical professionals and neither did they need to in order to get vaccinated. Instead people went to TV personalities, Late night show hosts, and politicians for their medical health information, not their personal health care providers.
I would never have gotten vaccinated from covid if I knew more about these "vaccines". After my second dose of Moderna I was hospitalized for a week because of myocarditis. I would have preferred if they either spread out the doses or lowered the second dose for me (or at least gave different recommendations for different cohorts). I was also required by my university to get vaccinated if I wanted to teach there, so it was either starve, move back in with my parents, or get vaccinated.
I said from the beginning that politicizing it was the problem. The virus doesn't care about anything but surviving, and it does what it does, regardless of your political leanings.
I didn’t have covid, or anything for that matter, nor anyone in my family, yet 24 hours postpartum my husband couldn’t be with me. I was being taken care of my a med surge male nurse. I had a CSF leak and was taking care of a 24 hour old while getting a needle of my own blood in my spine. The government can never repair the trauma the birth had on my family. Pushing out a baby with a mask on is inhumane.
Agreed, while pregnant the mask would make me start passing out thankfully my doctors and nurses cared and I took it off. I was super sick so wearing it wasn’t easy. Pregnant women shouldn’t be wearing masks.
I love an intelligent, honest, and logical conversation. Thank you both.
Doctor are supposed to be trained in nurturing patients “autonomy” and not have a “paternalistic approach” approach to patient care.
I think transparency by doctors (especially from a government agaency) is king.
Great talk y’all
I’m sure calling names and threatening people who were on the fence about getting vaccinated or not was a winning strategy too.
To be fair, people who didn't want to get vaccinated made fun of people wearing masks and getting vaccinated. My family included.
In the 80’s, my parents forgot to get me vaccinated against the measles because we were moving to another country. A year later, I caught it and almost died. I went legally blind in one eye as a result and lost half my body weight. So, measles is no joke and it boils my blood when people say “I’d rather have my kids get the measles than have the jab.”
That's fine for you but that doesn't mean I have to be vaccinated. It's your personal decision. If you feel so strongly about it, be upset with your parents for being so forgetful.
I'd rather have my kids get measles.
N=1 or something dismissive like that.
@@user-vh3sb4mg3s She's not talking about your personal choice. She's talking about people who are willing to let their kids possibly die because of their political beliefs.
I was never a fan of the COVID vaccine nonsense, but I still agree with her on the measles vaccine.
If repeat infections increase our chances of getting post viral conditions, immune supression, or cardiovascular disease, then "healthy, young people" need boosters. Hospitalization and death shouldn't be the sole focus of public health. Ignoring the role of covid in long term health conditions is also irresponsible and leads to mistrust in science, medicine, and public health.
Read online this brilliant eye opening Scientific Article by Dr. Robert O. Young titled: DISMANTLING THE VIRAL THEORY