i have a habit of listening to show tunes without having seen the show first...and i definitely thought it was a fun song sang possibly by some slightly drunk frat boys. i also definitely felt like shit when i finally saw the show and learned the context.
@@kandyappleview Honestly? Not too far off from my feel. I first heard the song in an youtube video featuring characters from a game called Sally Face. I wouldn't know the context or connection until I watched DEH and went "...oH... oh.... o h."
They screwed up the movie so bad :( They really needed to do the following: 1) Embrace the black comedy of it all 2) Have Ben Platt handoff the lead to someone else like how In The Heights did. 3) Don't cut any songs, especially Anybody have a map and Disappear 4) Don't setup the film's lighting so it looks like it was shot in a hospital operating room 5) Have it be a musical world, don't just have the lead singing where everyone else in the world is going about their business like nothing is happening. 6) And whatever you do, DON'T autotune professional broadway singers throughout the entire film. Oh crap.... they didn't listen :(
As someone who's written books about high schoolers WHILE still in high school (and being mentally ill while still in high school, and having many, many friends who were mentally ill while still in high school), I did...not like either the musical or the movie of Evan Hansen. While mental health issues are, indeed, prevalent to no end among teenagers, they're interpreted in the teenage world-just as it was in the adult world-as something private. (Meant for mostly Connor, but Evan as well.) Not necessarily stigmatized, and something teenagers can and do have, AND something that can reveal worrying symptoms/be detected by family and friends, but still...private. Bringing something of this frank of a topic to such a light not only turns a private topic into something that was brought WAY too far into the forestage (pardon the pun), but was portrayed in such a way that those who were/are mentally ill seem like that's all there is to them. Are there teens who act like that? Yes. Does the average teenager necessarily like, want to hang out with, or want to hear about the teen who acts like that? Let alone teenagers who utilize mental illness to commit atrocious acts, especially involving a recent suicide? Hell. No. *And, most importantly, it doesn't normalize mental illness so much as it does make it prevalent enough to now be mocked. Which is NOT what you want if and when you're suffering from a mental illness.* Not to mention it can create wholly unhealthy boundaries in personal relationships. I know some may be reading this and think this was the original intent, but if so, it may be relatable to certain teens, but certainly not your average one. And certainly not to me. Also, the decision to approach Connor's death as a FUCKING. PLOT. DEVICE. is absolutely horrific. Never would I ever consider doing this if I would continue to write about teenagers. For all the reasons above, they took a death by suicide and basically (metaphorically) flung Connor's corpse back and forth at their leisure. A more realistic portrait would be a 17-year-old named Evan Hansen who has a good friend, a crush, is now snagged into a suicide scandal, and *oh yeah he has social anxiety,* not a 17-year old kid named Evan Hansen who has social anxiety, and *oh yeah he has a good friend-* you know what I mean. Music is great tho 👌
bro you NEED more attention omg this video is literally so well made. i agree with these points 100%, and am honestly really scared for this movie, since i’ve been a fan since around 2018 or so. i really hope they make this movie work in some way. this story needs to be shared with more people, and if they can someone make it as good as i believed the book was, i think it can help a lot of people. i really hope it doesn’t go in the same way 13 reasons why did. i heard they’re giving alana a solo too?? how do you feel about that? i personally wasn’t too big of a fan of her character in the musical or the movie but i’m intrigued to see how they build her character. i really hope they give us more insight on jared’s character too, he’s always been the most relatable one to me specifically and i really hope they dig deeper into his character, especially with nik dodani playing him (i’m so excited to see how nik portrays jared, his character on atypical is very similar and he plays that role SO well) anyways as i said you had a ton of really good points in this video and it was super well made!!! let’s hope this movie doesn’t go as bad as it seems it will right now. (love the character themed outfits btw)
thank you so much!! i'm definitely curious to see where they take alana and jared. they're the two parts of the movie i'm actually kind of excited about!
Is it just me or does anybody have this idea that actually the Murphys knew that Evan was lying the whole time. They just really needed the lie. Maybe it’s a win win situation.
Interesting and Mr Murphy seemed to notice things like the Orchard being closed. I am thinking he was not buying the whole story and Zoey struggled with some of it but Evan seemed to be able to explain away things. But a lot of lines seemed to be more for laughs in the show. Even though there is a message in there it is important to remember people go to these shows for entertainment mostly. So the music and comedy was necessary for selling tickets. Perhaps this prouduced inconsistencies.
Maybe Evan is a creep who is seeing a classmates suicide as the perfect opening to creep on the dead kids sister. Cant wait to see Evan looking twice the age as his love interest in the movie and have the creep level shot up to new creepy heights. Maybe it’s a creep creep situation.
@@michaelb9537 In the Musical he never was portrayed like that. He tried to tell the Murphy's but they never seemed to let him or even believe him. Then at dinner he blurted out the line about remembering good things about Connor in an awkward moments when Zoey and her Mom were arguing about weather or not Connor was a good person. This is where he broke into For Forever and was obviously awkwardly making up the words until about half way through it. He started believing his story at that point. He started believing that Connor came to him when he "fell" out of the tree.
@@bobbywise2313 just gotta play devils advocate for those trying to portray him as a hero and applauding his actions as the right thing to do. “They just really needed the lie… Win-win situation”… huh
@@michaelb9537 Actually many people feel exactly like that. I don't think it was the writers attempt to portray him this way, but they could have done a better job. It is just a musical and maybe we all are reading too much into it. Most people go to musicals for the music. This is why they tend to sell more tickets than dramas.
You hit the nail on the head with this before the film even came out. I also think that a pro shot of most movie musicals is preferable to many movie musicals.
My thoughts about this are also very similar, especially with the last point. The fan base for DEH is full of so many different people and I’m really excited to see more people know about it and join the fandom but in my opinion as someone who was severely affected by 13 reasons why and the way it made suicide seem like a good thing I am so scared for what this movie could do. Like everything it will have bad effects and good effects but it being something that addresses such sensitive topics it’s likely it may do more harm than good. Btw I loved all your different outfits inspired by the characters and thank you for making a video about this.
The point about how the audience doesn't watch the Broadway show alone, versus watching the movie completely alone, is so good! It really makes a difference.
Bravo. Your commentary was a work of passion, and it was a rather massive amount of work. It's clear that your concerns come from a love of the the material -- the show. You had more costume changes than most -- more than Evan Hansen! 😀 The atonal singing faux-dub clips are not my thing, but that's OK. I was encouraged that Stephen Chbosky is on the creative team for this movie. He pulled off adapting "The Perks of Being a Wallflower", and that was populated with with several older "teens". I loved that movie; perhaps you didn't? Age aside, Ben Platt is clearly passionate about this material; that should help. If the team pulls off the movie, it should get excellent box office. I tend to think making the movie was going to be risky -- no matter what. Thanks for doing this project.
great video! i really love the musical and its really helped me as someone who can relate a little too much to evan but i had similar concerns when i heard about the movie adaptation especially because the production seems so rushed. while i definitely agree with the point that its gonna be harder for us to sympathize with evan, im still excited about seeing ben play him.
I love the stepdad angle. Like when I watched the original was like “fuckin hell, is this really his real father? I don’t know any parent that’s this detached and uncaring except for a step dad.”
Idk, Connor's dad cares and actually expresses emotion about his kid....that's more than my dad has ever done! 🤣😭 I'd argue that I'd bet a majority (51%+) humans have a dad that's more detached, if any dad at all (so I'm including people with no dad present - whether that means they're dead, jail, in military or somewhere else for work, etc.). But, I think the reason the dads you know are good, is because knowing a dad pre-selects for dads that are present and attached. Little statistical trick lol. That's the thing, my dad is so detached, that he isn't interested in getting to know you either. You can only meet (and so "know") the dads who are already alive, present and attached to begin with. I think that's (partly) why I know so many step dads who are way better than the biological dad. Step dads go into the relationship knowing a kid is there. They can't say they're surprised by it, almost 0% chance it's (potentially) hoisted upon them by a pregnancy another woman chose to have. (I say this as a woman w/a womb.) Not that that should somehow lift their responsibility, and that it's the mom's fault my dad sucked, I'm just trying to communicate that mom's don't have a chance to test their kid's relationship with the kid's biological dad, because the biological dad came first, then the kid. Versus step dads, which come after, if that makes sense?_ I bet if my mom left my dad, I'd get a step dad more attached than my biological dad. However, my "dad" has set the bar so low, that it's basically like I never had one. 🤣 /End rant sorry! (Quick Edit: I mean no offense with this ramble btw. ✌️)
@@sorryifoldcomment8596 women chose to have?? That’s a SUPER clunky comment.pretty sure that if you FOIST(not hoist) your Semen into a woman--you’ve got some responsibility for creating a life.
Thanks for this video. I didn't know anything about the show and have been watching the responses to the movie. To hear that it originally was structured around social media and that many of the conversations were had over distances blew my mind a bit, because that was not the case in the movie. It explains a lot. That "Waving Through a Window" song makes a lot more sense and is actually a good metaphor in that context. Window is phone. Tapping on a touchscreen. I would have never gotten that from the film.
Omg im so happy this popped up in my recommended, btw from one media lover to another, you have a real knack for videos essays like this I was surprised to see you’re such a small creator!
hey! i really liked your analysis, i hadn't thought about the things you were talking about. i'll still watch the movie because i'm a big fan and i want the movie to do well, but i think all your points are very accurate. i feel the same way about In the Heights. Based off the trailer it looks WAY too over the top and I have a feeling Jon Chu's direction is going lose some of that i-can-picture-myself-in-their-shoes vibe that the original show had.
the original musical is definitely better than whatever the movie was I mean even the musical has it's flaws but this movie was definitely too much on the mistakes counter
As a senior (citizen), I had heard of the Broadway version, but didn’t know much about it. The movie DVD was on display at the library, so I watched it. I thought it was good, very moving, gut-wrenching. Platt’s age didn’t bother me. My big complaint is that Colton Ryan (as Connor Murphy) is so good that he almost steals the movie. Despite the starry cast, the movie fell flat after Colton scenes were over. I think he himself would’ve delivered a better Evan, a role he played on Broadway.
I'm using this comments section as a dumping ground for all my ideas on this topic as I watch, but I hope this is clear enough to understand. I also just want to say this isn't to disregard or discount any of your own ideas, nor am I saying the DEH movie is going to be great and fantastic and there's no chance it'll be bad. Just my own response. And thank you for the work you put into this video! I think your criticisms are valid, but I would also like to say that I don't really think the source material has an amazing amount of nuance or covers the topics it throws out perfectly. The best thing about DEH is the teenagers, they are realistically written as standalone characters (at least, most of them are most of the time. I've never been a fan of Zoe and I can't tell if it's her writing or Laura Dreyfuss, or both, but she's never resonated with me as much... and all the other characters are imperfect). However, I think the plot and the music are messy. The social media messaging seemingly has no nuance and is so ironic considering all the #YouWillBeFound merch. I do completely agree with the R/PG-13 dilemma. It's going to be rated PG-13 (UNLESS they're going for full Oscar bait, because this movie is slated to be nominated for some Oscars) and it sucks, but it's just what's gotta happen. My only wish is that the one F word goes to "fuck you, Evan" (LOL). Stephen Chobsky isn't perfect with movie musicals, but I will say his work on Perks of Being a Wallflower was fantastic and I trust him with teen films. I have absolutely no issue with Ben Platt as Evan. I do think it's funny his dad is producing it, he is a nepotism baby, but the criticisms seem so blown out of the water. Teens are played by adults all the time, and to me Ben Platt doesn't look any different than the early to mid 20s casting every teen movie has (and he's gonna be in makeup and potentially airbrushed). Movies have suspension of disbelief as well, and honestly people will hate Evan and his actions no matter what (and yea the black and white thinking on the internet hurts DEH so bad). I really don't care what anyone else says too, Ben is the best Evan by a longshot. His acting will sell it if nothing else. Really don't see any issue with stepfather Larry. Not every stepfather is a "Brad" and they can have just as nuanced of relationships with children as biological parents. Many of my friends and my own nephews were raised exclusively by their stepfathers. I really don't see how it is perpetrating the idea that stepfathers can't fill fatherly roles at all. And let's be honest with ourselves. It's not like Larry or Larry and Connor's relationship has a whole lot going for it in canon. The issue with race and Broadway is absolutely serious and needs to be addressed. Also I completely agree that Julianne Moore and Amy Adams should have switched. Wow, somehow this part of my notes got deleted so I'll summarize The social media stuff will be fine if the movie is fine. It'll be clear, they'll use some editing tricks, it'll convey the same ideas. Honestly the idea that no movie ever does use of technology correctly is silly to me and seems to be some internet groupthink. The idea that you can't do internal Connor in film is just wrong, that idea is done all the time in films and TV; look at Ben Platt and Laura Dreyfuss's show The Politician. There are a thousand movies and TV shows that portray loneliness better than DEH. If the movie is any good, it'll portray it well. Also, the issue with "a bunch of it is just characters standing and singing" is an issue with the source material, not an adaptation. One of the biggest criticisms lobbied against DEH I see is that the staging during musical numbers is bad. It's not just a thing that's prevalent in stage, it's that DEH way overdoes it. (End of summary, now we're moving onto my as I watch notes again, LOL). The idea that this will cause a 13 Reasons Why reaction (which by the way is a bit of a myth as it actually had mixed results of the work it did regarding suicide -- some was positive, some negative; obviously not defending the negative here) because "now you're alone in a movie theater or at home where as before you were hugging and holding your family at a play" is just silly to me, and seems to come from a privileged place. Most people who have seen DEH, especially most teens, watched bootlegs. They listened to the cast album and read the libretto and found recordings on UA-cam and Google Drive. I was LUCKY to get nosebleed tickets for the national tour, and it was all my mom could afford as a present for me that year. These kids didn't have anyone there to deconstruct it with them and yet there were no DEH-caused suicides. In fact, I think the film adaptation is going to make this MORE accessible for teens and their families. Most teenagers, especially younger ones, go to the movies with their family. Many of them will watch it at home with their family. DEH being adapted into a movie is fantastic because if nothing else it brings another inaccessible Broadway musical, formally gatekept for the rich, to the average person. People can see DEH for $20 now. Honestly, the idea that "movie bad, play good" that pervade this video essay (like seriously, what about a movie means that suicide or toxic behavior is likely to make glamorized?) seem to tie back to that privileged perspective. What DEH was for you is what many films (for example, Perks of Being a Wallflower) are for kids who can't afford to see Broadway productions or collect Playbills, and this could easily hold that same spot for them. A proshot is obviously ideal and the gatekeeping of musicals by refusing to release proshots is terrible, but you even contradict yourself by saying this. What happened to those shared emotions of the theater? Those don't exist when you're watching a professional recording by yourself, as many people will, considering these proshots also typically release online. And the DEH movie is releasing in theaters, so why won't it have that shared experience? Overall, even though I didn't agree with you, I appreciate the work you put into this. I just hope that you'll have an open mind going into the film and not come with an expectation that it will be bad.
Thank you for your feedback! You made some very good points and I can't respond to them all, but I do want to address what you said about accessibility, because it's definitely something I should have discussed in the video. My own first experience with DEH was actually through a bootleg on UA-cam, and I was lucky enough to still live at home and close enough to the city that I could work part-time and save up to go see it in-person later on, but that is an opportunity that many, many people don't have available to them, and for a lot of the people who love DEH, bootlegs are their only option, so far. That's kinda what I was hinting at when I said that I wish they would just release the proshot of the show, because I think seeing it in its original form, whether it be in-person or on a screen, is likely going to be better and more closely linked to some sort of community (whether it be the in-person audience or the comments sections and well-established online fandom for the show) than a movie that introduces all these new things that will probably flood the internet with more discourse than actual support. The show is definitely flawed and it's not going to be helpful to everyone, but especially judging by the trailer released today, the movie feels more interested in milking drama and glamorizing the events of the show than acknowledging its shortcomings. I hope that I'm proven wrong; I want this thing to be good! But my concerns definitely still stand. Rushing out something with the potential to be as important and impactful as a more accessible version of Dear Evan Hansen could be has just always rubbed me the wrong way, and I hope that it goes well, but right now, it still seems very up-in-the-air.
great video! i came across this on tumblr while scrolling through the "deh movie" tag for... obvious reasons. also turns out you're one of my mutual in-laws (as in a mutual of my mutual) so that's fun lmao small world!! but anyways yes i super agree with everything you talked about in this video ESPECIALLY your solution being just releasing a proshot. proshots >>> movie adaptations come on you guys how many times do we have to learn this lesson. great video, excited to see more from you!! you got yourself a new sub
This video is unlike any other such one I've seen for this subject, and it was refreshing to see your take before having seen the film, because of course you were limited by not having any direct reference to the film to work with. I'm glad that your focus was on the logistical and adaptational weaknesses of the film to be, rather than some of its creative choices, which I think were oversaid, and your angle made the review more balanced. I don't know if you saw the film since - I watched it in an empty cinema screen on a Wednesday afternoon, and the experience really kacked the sense of audience community like you said. This was probably an effect of being able to watch the show early in the day. Was I worried about the film? No. I'd just seen the West End 2021 show that same month and read the book, and I wanted to see the songs performed again. However, it was a little too dry to really capture my interest again. It's a shame that's what will likely form the permanent record of the show for the future, rather than letting it die with the last stageshow.
I don't like the implication the film/show seems to make that people commit suicide because they're lonely/misunderstood, and that if you have friends/a girlfriend, you don't need your medication anymore.
Watching this in 2022, wow where you so right in all your concerns! I call witchcraft, no other explanation on how accurate you were about everything!!
I want to see the video of the Broadway musical with Ben Platt. I’ve seen others play Evan live but I want to see the original. I couldn’t get through the movie.
There are quite a few problems with the movie that you very accurately pointed out. I think the biggest problem that most people are overlooking is #4 with the visual representation. After seeing the trailer it looks like they’re really going for a “realistic teen drama” visual approach which for a musical is booooring. While the stage show has the interesting screens and lighting it looks like the movie is just going for someone standing there in a realistic setting. It doesn’t add anything- it removes the visual style existing in the stage show, and hilghts the point you made that this movie was unusually rushed. It just seems like what we’re seeing and visual creativity was completely shoved to the side. I’m also worried that this is going to leave a bad, boring impression that doesn’t represent what the show is.
This was such a good analysis! Especially for being your first video on the platform. I am actually looking forward to this film because I never got the opportunity to see Ben platt in the role. I was a busy and poor college student at the time. But it would be awesome if me and others like me could see the show, as you mentioned, as a professionally shot version of the live show. Watching it as a Hollywood movie will never produce the same atmosphere as the original. Some stories are just meant to be told on stage. Anyways, keep up the good work! I hope to see more from you in the future.
your last point about the differences between live theater and film is SO important. my family thinks i'm a snob when i talk about it, but they are two different mediums and things done on stage don't always translate to film, and vice versa. sometimes, especially with remakes, small changes are ok, but some changes mess with what the original work was supposed to provoke in the audience. and if a remake is the goal (as opposed to just a new interpretation of some source material), i think it should honor the spirit of the original work, and represent it well. that being said, i know DEH is based on a book (and therefore already has some changes), but it seems that the movie is based on the musical, not the book or a mixture of both. i think what hamilton did was amazing for exposing more people to the world of musical theater. but it seems that while it brought musicals into pop culture again, people forget that that was a pro shot, not a movie. (well more like a well done hybrid, but i digress). i love a good film adaptation, but i also want more pro shots. DEH is a good example of that. also sidebar, your point about loneliness is so great! i agree - there's nothing like the emptiness on a stage to convey profound loneliness.
I’m so glad I was recommended this video! You’re excellent at what you do! I’ve watched so so many videos about the movie since I saw it and, as somebody who went into it with zero context, I value the perspective of somebody who knows and loves it. I’m about 5 minutes in so I can’t comment further but I can tell, as other comments have said, that this has aged well, which I think speaKs to your enthusiasm
VERY WELL SAID, ESPECIALLY AS A MIXEDRACE PERSON HAVING WATCHED DEAR EVAN HANSEN AT WESTEND MUSICAL, IT’S A SHAME TO KNOW THAT THEY ACTUALLY MAKE RACE AN ISSUE BY HAVING TO RE-WRITE THE PLOT.
I've watched a lot of reviews about the dear evan hansen and yes they all hit hard but you've genuinely made me cry with that last point about the danger of glamourising suicide. This video is amazing, thank you.
Thank you for this great breakdown and concerns about the movie. Did you see the movie yet ? Did it let you down? What did you think of the new songs? I did like the movie, but I’m not the target audience.
28:48 I think you seriously underestimate what film could be capable of achieving with musicals. Yeah, you can't capture the feeling of loneliness the same way the stage can, but that's because they're 2 very different mediums, and very different rules apply for each. I think that a lot of why stage-to-film adaptations of musicals suck has less to do with the medium itself & so much more to do with the filmmakers not being comfortable enough with both mediums. You need a great understanding of both to be able to effectively translate one to another. With that being said tho, I still don't have much faith in the DEH movie either 😂
Honestly I don't really like dear Evan Hansen because I feel like connera derah is just used a prop and as someone who struggles with suicidal thoughts and tendencies it hurts me.
I agree with you on some of the points but I do think the movie will do well especially with Ben platt as Evan … he puts his whole heart into the role and that will really bump the movie up where it needs to be. Also I’d love to know what you thought of the trailer for the movie
I got a feeling maybe this is not the movie you want to go see because if you like the theater so much you may not like it. Me I would love to see both I just saw rent live I saw cats in theaters and I thought the movie and I still love her phone cuz it still had the songs and it still have the dance. Just know that the movie adapt is going to be so much different than the theaters and they have more room to do the musical in films and they do on stage your limited on stage
Well, Meg, you didn't want to end on that note, but you doubled down on it, didn't you? I respect that you have opinions--that's what this platform is for--but I'm guessing your video will probably do more harm than good, as rational as your points are. Ben Platt has one of the most beautifully expressive voices around, and I'm guessing that people will appreciate that and be moved, just as we all were on stage. The play as a movie will be what it is, and I hope that it's a hit, as many very successful films with actors older than the roles they play have been. Ben did his last performance only three years before filming--how much older do you think he looked in three years from the time he won the Tony? He looks fine in the trailer. Maybe the best thing for all of us really loyal fans of this amazing play is to speak optimistically of its chances. The naysayers will have plenty of time once the film is actually viewed and not simply speculation, to speak disparagingly of it. Of course, the reason film people hold their breath when a film premiers is that no one knows how the public will react. No worry that it will reach and bolster the people you and all of us are concerned about, though. As a mental health professional, I think this film will ultimately go a long way to help millions. And, yes, everyone should go see the play in a theater! I saw Ben do it (three times) and was blown away each time. I'm looking forward to being blown away again.I hope you finally love the film, Meg. It's hard to love something so much and worry that it's in jeopardy. Keep your fingers crossed!
The video aged like a fine wine
“In a song that is so fun you almost forgot how fucked up it is” Best line ever
I'm pretty sure that was the point of the song.
@@peter_pansexual6243 he never said it wasn’t
i have a habit of listening to show tunes without having seen the show first...and i definitely thought it was a fun song sang possibly by some slightly drunk frat boys. i also definitely felt like shit when i finally saw the show and learned the context.
@@kandyappleview Honestly? Not too far off from my feel. I first heard the song in an youtube video featuring characters from a game called Sally Face. I wouldn't know the context or connection until I watched DEH and went "...oH... oh.... o h."
They screwed up the movie so bad :( They really needed to do the following:
1) Embrace the black comedy of it all
2) Have Ben Platt handoff the lead to someone else like how In The Heights did.
3) Don't cut any songs, especially Anybody have a map and Disappear
4) Don't setup the film's lighting so it looks like it was shot in a hospital operating room
5) Have it be a musical world, don't just have the lead singing where everyone else in the world is going about their business like nothing is happening.
6) And whatever you do, DON'T autotune professional broadway singers throughout the entire film.
Oh crap.... they didn't listen :(
We need a follow up video.
I think you’re exactly right in all of your points. You said it so incredibly well. I really wish we could’ve just gotten a Hamilton-style recording.
As someone who's written books about high schoolers WHILE still in high school (and being mentally ill while still in high school, and having many, many friends who were mentally ill while still in high school), I did...not like either the musical or the movie of Evan Hansen.
While mental health issues are, indeed, prevalent to no end among teenagers, they're interpreted in the teenage world-just as it was in the adult world-as something private. (Meant for mostly Connor, but Evan as well.)
Not necessarily stigmatized, and something teenagers can and do have, AND something that can reveal worrying symptoms/be detected by family and friends, but still...private. Bringing something of this frank of a topic to such a light not only turns a private topic into something that was brought WAY too far into the forestage (pardon the pun), but was portrayed in such a way that those who were/are mentally ill seem like that's all there is to them. Are there teens who act like that? Yes. Does the average teenager necessarily like, want to hang out with, or want to hear about the teen who acts like that? Let alone teenagers who utilize mental illness to commit atrocious acts, especially involving a recent suicide?
Hell. No.
*And, most importantly, it doesn't normalize mental illness so much as it does make it prevalent enough to now be mocked. Which is NOT what you want if and when you're suffering from a mental illness.*
Not to mention it can create wholly unhealthy boundaries in personal relationships.
I know some may be reading this and think this was the original intent, but if so, it may be relatable to certain teens, but certainly not your average one. And certainly not to me.
Also, the decision to approach Connor's death as a FUCKING. PLOT. DEVICE. is absolutely horrific. Never would I ever consider doing this if I would continue to write about teenagers. For all the reasons above, they took a death by suicide and basically (metaphorically) flung Connor's corpse back and forth at their leisure.
A more realistic portrait would be a 17-year-old named Evan Hansen who has a good friend, a crush, is now snagged into a suicide scandal, and *oh yeah he has social anxiety,* not a 17-year old kid named Evan Hansen who has social anxiety, and *oh yeah he has a good friend-* you know what I mean.
Music is great tho 👌
bro you NEED more attention omg this video is literally so well made. i agree with these points 100%, and am honestly really scared for this movie, since i’ve been a fan since around 2018 or so. i really hope they make this movie work in some way. this story needs to be shared with more people, and if they can someone make it as good as i believed the book was, i think it can help a lot of people. i really hope it doesn’t go in the same way 13 reasons why did. i heard they’re giving alana a solo too?? how do you feel about that? i personally wasn’t too big of a fan of her character in the musical or the movie but i’m intrigued to see how they build her character. i really hope they give us more insight on jared’s character too, he’s always been the most relatable one to me specifically and i really hope they dig deeper into his character, especially with nik dodani playing him (i’m so excited to see how nik portrays jared, his character on atypical is very similar and he plays that role SO well) anyways as i said you had a ton of really good points in this video and it was super well made!!! let’s hope this movie doesn’t go as bad as it seems it will right now.
(love the character themed outfits btw)
thank you so much!! i'm definitely curious to see where they take alana and jared. they're the two parts of the movie i'm actually kind of excited about!
I thought Alana's character was very funny. I think Jarred and Alana were the comedy duo of the show.
Girl, you were so damn right. Watching this after the movie came out is 10 times more interesting. Hope you get a lot of views
I hate to tell you that all of your fears surrounding the film adaptation have been realized. And what a shame.
FOLLOW UP! Pls! You pretty much nailed it, but I’d like to hear your postmortem assessment.
Is it just me or does anybody have this idea that actually the Murphys knew that Evan was lying the whole time. They just really needed the lie. Maybe it’s a win win situation.
Interesting and Mr Murphy seemed to notice things like the Orchard being closed. I am thinking he was not buying the whole story and Zoey struggled with some of it but Evan seemed to be able to explain away things.
But a lot of lines seemed to be more for laughs in the show. Even though there is a message in there it is important to remember people go to these shows for entertainment mostly. So the music and comedy was necessary for selling tickets. Perhaps this prouduced inconsistencies.
Maybe Evan is a creep who is seeing a classmates suicide as the perfect opening to creep on the dead kids sister. Cant wait to see Evan looking twice the age as his love interest in the movie and have the creep level shot up to new creepy heights. Maybe it’s a creep creep situation.
@@michaelb9537 In the Musical he never was portrayed like that. He tried to tell the Murphy's but they never seemed to let him or even believe him. Then at dinner he blurted out the line about remembering good things about Connor in an awkward moments when Zoey and her Mom were arguing about weather or not Connor was a good person.
This is where he broke into For Forever and was obviously awkwardly making up the words until about half way through it. He started believing his story at that point. He started believing that Connor came to him when he "fell" out of the tree.
@@bobbywise2313 just gotta play devils advocate for those trying to portray him as a hero and applauding his actions as the right thing to do. “They just really needed the lie… Win-win situation”… huh
@@michaelb9537 Actually many people feel exactly like that. I don't think it was the writers attempt to portray him this way, but they could have done a better job.
It is just a musical and maybe we all are reading too much into it. Most people go to musicals for the music. This is why they tend to sell more tickets than dramas.
You hit the nail on the head with this before the film even came out. I also think that a pro shot of most movie musicals is preferable to many movie musicals.
My thoughts about this are also very similar, especially with the last point. The fan base for DEH is full of so many different people and I’m really excited to see more people know about it and join the fandom but in my opinion as someone who was severely affected by 13 reasons why and the way it made suicide seem like a good thing I am so scared for what this movie could do. Like everything it will have bad effects and good effects but it being something that addresses such sensitive topics it’s likely it may do more harm than good. Btw I loved all your different outfits inspired by the characters and thank you for making a video about this.
The point about how the audience doesn't watch the Broadway show alone, versus watching the movie completely alone, is so good! It really makes a difference.
hey unrelated but i loved your collection of dear evan hansen products
thank you so much! i've had a lot of fun collecting them, over the years sdfghjklk
@@megandcheese7546 did you just see the trailer
Dear god the prophet seem to be true
Bravo. Your commentary was a work of passion, and it was a rather massive amount of work. It's clear that your concerns come from a love of the the material -- the show. You had more costume changes than most -- more than Evan Hansen! 😀 The atonal singing faux-dub clips are not my thing, but that's OK.
I was encouraged that Stephen Chbosky is on the creative team for this movie. He pulled off adapting "The Perks of Being a Wallflower", and that was populated with with several older "teens". I loved that movie; perhaps you didn't?
Age aside, Ben Platt is clearly passionate about this material; that should help. If the team pulls off the movie, it should get excellent box office. I tend to think making the movie was going to be risky -- no matter what. Thanks for doing this project.
You absolutely NAILED it, wow! Four months before the trailer even came out.
Nice video!!! Now that trailer is out, will you do a video talking about it??
great video! i really love the musical and its really helped me as someone who can relate a little too much to evan but i had similar concerns when i heard about the movie adaptation especially because the production seems so rushed. while i definitely agree with the point that its gonna be harder for us to sympathize with evan, im still excited about seeing ben play him.
I love the stepdad angle. Like when I watched the original was like “fuckin hell, is this really his real father? I don’t know any parent that’s this detached and uncaring except for a step dad.”
Idk, Connor's dad cares and actually expresses emotion about his kid....that's more than my dad has ever done! 🤣😭
I'd argue that I'd bet a majority (51%+) humans have a dad that's more detached, if any dad at all (so I'm including people with no dad present - whether that means they're dead, jail, in military or somewhere else for work, etc.).
But, I think the reason the dads you know are good, is because knowing a dad pre-selects for dads that are present and attached. Little statistical trick lol.
That's the thing, my dad is so detached, that he isn't interested in getting to know you either. You can only meet (and so "know") the dads who are already alive, present and attached to begin with.
I think that's (partly) why I know so many step dads who are way better than the biological dad. Step dads go into the relationship knowing a kid is there. They can't say they're surprised by it, almost 0% chance it's (potentially) hoisted upon them by a pregnancy another woman chose to have. (I say this as a woman w/a womb.) Not that that should somehow lift their responsibility, and that it's the mom's fault my dad sucked, I'm just trying to communicate that mom's don't have a chance to test their kid's relationship with the kid's biological dad, because the biological dad came first, then the kid. Versus step dads, which come after, if that makes sense?_
I bet if my mom left my dad, I'd get a step dad more attached than my biological dad. However, my "dad" has set the bar so low, that it's basically like I never had one. 🤣
/End rant sorry!
(Quick Edit: I mean no offense with this ramble btw. ✌️)
@@sorryifoldcomment8596 women chose to have?? That’s a SUPER clunky comment.pretty sure that if you FOIST(not hoist) your Semen into a woman--you’ve got some responsibility for creating a life.
@@sorryifoldcomment8596 Hoisted? Wtf have you ever heard it takes two to tango
are you trying too hard to prove you are old enough to drink coffee?
sdfghjk okay I know this was meant as a joke at my expense but it's maybe the funniest thing I've ever been asked thank you for that
Would LOVE a follow-up!
Thanks for this video. I didn't know anything about the show and have been watching the responses to the movie. To hear that it originally was structured around social media and that many of the conversations were had over distances blew my mind a bit, because that was not the case in the movie. It explains a lot. That "Waving Through a Window" song makes a lot more sense and is actually a good metaphor in that context. Window is phone. Tapping on a touchscreen. I would have never gotten that from the film.
I noticed your polo doesn’t have the DEH logo on it, is that the official one? Or did you just find one that looked like it?
Omg im so happy this popped up in my recommended, btw from one media lover to another, you have a real knack for videos essays like this I was surprised to see you’re such a small creator!
hey! i really liked your analysis, i hadn't thought about the things you were talking about. i'll still watch the movie because i'm a big fan and i want the movie to do well, but i think all your points are very accurate. i feel the same way about In the Heights. Based off the trailer it looks WAY too over the top and I have a feeling Jon Chu's direction is going lose some of that i-can-picture-myself-in-their-shoes vibe that the original show had.
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you should record a follow up video since the movie is released and the critical bomb it was and how you're predictions matched up
Nice video you should keep doing more
If they can make general audiences notice the og musical and take in the many messages than I'm ok.
the original musical is definitely better than whatever the movie was
I mean even the musical has it's flaws but this movie was definitely too much on the mistakes counter
As a senior (citizen), I had heard of the Broadway version, but didn’t know much about it. The movie DVD was on display at the library, so I watched it. I thought it was good, very moving, gut-wrenching. Platt’s age didn’t bother me. My big complaint is that Colton Ryan (as Connor Murphy) is so good that he almost steals the movie. Despite the starry cast, the movie fell flat after Colton scenes were over. I think he himself would’ve delivered a better Evan, a role he played on Broadway.
I'm using this comments section as a dumping ground for all my ideas on this topic as I watch, but I hope this is clear enough to understand. I also just want to say this isn't to disregard or discount any of your own ideas, nor am I saying the DEH movie is going to be great and fantastic and there's no chance it'll be bad. Just my own response. And thank you for the work you put into this video!
I think your criticisms are valid, but I would also like to say that I don't really think the source material has an amazing amount of nuance or covers the topics it throws out perfectly. The best thing about DEH is the teenagers, they are realistically written as standalone characters (at least, most of them are most of the time. I've never been a fan of Zoe and I can't tell if it's her writing or Laura Dreyfuss, or both, but she's never resonated with me as much... and all the other characters are imperfect). However, I think the plot and the music are messy. The social media messaging seemingly has no nuance and is so ironic considering all the #YouWillBeFound merch.
I do completely agree with the R/PG-13 dilemma. It's going to be rated PG-13 (UNLESS they're going for full Oscar bait, because this movie is slated to be nominated for some Oscars) and it sucks, but it's just what's gotta happen. My only wish is that the one F word goes to "fuck you, Evan" (LOL).
Stephen Chobsky isn't perfect with movie musicals, but I will say his work on Perks of Being a Wallflower was fantastic and I trust him with teen films.
I have absolutely no issue with Ben Platt as Evan. I do think it's funny his dad is producing it, he is a nepotism baby, but the criticisms seem so blown out of the water. Teens are played by adults all the time, and to me Ben Platt doesn't look any different than the early to mid 20s casting every teen movie has (and he's gonna be in makeup and potentially airbrushed). Movies have suspension of disbelief as well, and honestly people will hate Evan and his actions no matter what (and yea the black and white thinking on the internet hurts DEH so bad). I really don't care what anyone else says too, Ben is the best Evan by a longshot. His acting will sell it if nothing else.
Really don't see any issue with stepfather Larry. Not every stepfather is a "Brad" and they can have just as nuanced of relationships with children as biological parents. Many of my friends and my own nephews were raised exclusively by their stepfathers. I really don't see how it is perpetrating the idea that stepfathers can't fill fatherly roles at all. And let's be honest with ourselves. It's not like Larry or Larry and Connor's relationship has a whole lot going for it in canon.
The issue with race and Broadway is absolutely serious and needs to be addressed.
Also I completely agree that Julianne Moore and Amy Adams should have switched.
Wow, somehow this part of my notes got deleted so I'll summarize
The social media stuff will be fine if the movie is fine. It'll be clear, they'll use some editing tricks, it'll convey the same ideas. Honestly the idea that no movie ever does use of technology correctly is silly to me and seems to be some internet groupthink.
The idea that you can't do internal Connor in film is just wrong, that idea is done all the time in films and TV; look at Ben Platt and Laura Dreyfuss's show The Politician.
There are a thousand movies and TV shows that portray loneliness better than DEH. If the movie is any good, it'll portray it well. Also, the issue with "a bunch of it is just characters standing and singing" is an issue with the source material, not an adaptation. One of the biggest criticisms lobbied against DEH I see is that the staging during musical numbers is bad. It's not just a thing that's prevalent in stage, it's that DEH way overdoes it.
(End of summary, now we're moving onto my as I watch notes again, LOL).
The idea that this will cause a 13 Reasons Why reaction (which by the way is a bit of a myth as it actually had mixed results of the work it did regarding suicide -- some was positive, some negative; obviously not defending the negative here) because "now you're alone in a movie theater or at home where as before you were hugging and holding your family at a play" is just silly to me, and seems to come from a privileged place. Most people who have seen DEH, especially most teens, watched bootlegs. They listened to the cast album and read the libretto and found recordings on UA-cam and Google Drive. I was LUCKY to get nosebleed tickets for the national tour, and it was all my mom could afford as a present for me that year. These kids didn't have anyone there to deconstruct it with them and yet there were no DEH-caused suicides. In fact, I think the film adaptation is going to make this MORE accessible for teens and their families. Most teenagers, especially younger ones, go to the movies with their family. Many of them will watch it at home with their family. DEH being adapted into a movie is fantastic because if nothing else it brings another inaccessible Broadway musical, formally gatekept for the rich, to the average person. People can see DEH for $20 now. Honestly, the idea that "movie bad, play good" that pervade this video essay (like seriously, what about a movie means that suicide or toxic behavior is likely to make glamorized?) seem to tie back to that privileged perspective. What DEH was for you is what many films (for example, Perks of Being a Wallflower) are for kids who can't afford to see Broadway productions or collect Playbills, and this could easily hold that same spot for them.
A proshot is obviously ideal and the gatekeeping of musicals by refusing to release proshots is terrible, but you even contradict yourself by saying this. What happened to those shared emotions of the theater? Those don't exist when you're watching a professional recording by yourself, as many people will, considering these proshots also typically release online. And the DEH movie is releasing in theaters, so why won't it have that shared experience?
Overall, even though I didn't agree with you, I appreciate the work you put into this. I just hope that you'll have an open mind going into the film and not come with an expectation that it will be bad.
Thank you for your feedback! You made some very good points and I can't respond to them all, but I do want to address what you said about accessibility, because it's definitely something I should have discussed in the video. My own first experience with DEH was actually through a bootleg on UA-cam, and I was lucky enough to still live at home and close enough to the city that I could work part-time and save up to go see it in-person later on, but that is an opportunity that many, many people don't have available to them, and for a lot of the people who love DEH, bootlegs are their only option, so far. That's kinda what I was hinting at when I said that I wish they would just release the proshot of the show, because I think seeing it in its original form, whether it be in-person or on a screen, is likely going to be better and more closely linked to some sort of community (whether it be the in-person audience or the comments sections and well-established online fandom for the show) than a movie that introduces all these new things that will probably flood the internet with more discourse than actual support. The show is definitely flawed and it's not going to be helpful to everyone, but especially judging by the trailer released today, the movie feels more interested in milking drama and glamorizing the events of the show than acknowledging its shortcomings. I hope that I'm proven wrong; I want this thing to be good! But my concerns definitely still stand. Rushing out something with the potential to be as important and impactful as a more accessible version of Dear Evan Hansen could be has just always rubbed me the wrong way, and I hope that it goes well, but right now, it still seems very up-in-the-air.
Y’all writing a book in the comments section?
Are you planning to make a movie review of the dear evan hansen the movie?
Foreshadowing videos are fun...😂
why does this only have 500 likes. you were right
And you were right lol
I still wish they went the Hamilton route:/ Especially since the OG mum carried the show!!
great video! i came across this on tumblr while scrolling through the "deh movie" tag for... obvious reasons. also turns out you're one of my mutual in-laws (as in a mutual of my mutual) so that's fun lmao small world!!
but anyways yes i super agree with everything you talked about in this video ESPECIALLY your solution being just releasing a proshot. proshots >>> movie adaptations come on you guys how many times do we have to learn this lesson.
great video, excited to see more from you!! you got yourself a new sub
I agree with all your points! I’m really nervous that the movie is going to send the wrong message.
This video is unlike any other such one I've seen for this subject, and it was refreshing to see your take before having seen the film, because of course you were limited by not having any direct reference to the film to work with. I'm glad that your focus was on the logistical and adaptational weaknesses of the film to be, rather than some of its creative choices, which I think were oversaid, and your angle made the review more balanced.
I don't know if you saw the film since - I watched it in an empty cinema screen on a Wednesday afternoon, and the experience really kacked the sense of audience community like you said. This was probably an effect of being able to watch the show early in the day.
Was I worried about the film? No. I'd just seen the West End 2021 show that same month and read the book, and I wanted to see the songs performed again. However, it was a little too dry to really capture my interest again. It's a shame that's what will likely form the permanent record of the show for the future, rather than letting it die with the last stageshow.
I don't like the implication the film/show seems to make that people commit suicide because they're lonely/misunderstood, and that if you have friends/a girlfriend, you don't need your medication anymore.
Watching this in 2022, wow where you so right in all your concerns! I call witchcraft, no other explanation on how accurate you were about everything!!
I want to see the video of the Broadway musical with Ben Platt. I’ve seen others play Evan live but I want to see the original. I couldn’t get through the movie.
36:50 OMG how did you get the audio of me singing while home alone!!!!!!
Teens can get into R rated films. I don’t see why people think we can’t. Some theaters will let them in by themselves
You called it.
To be fair, the character had no one to go to. He made a lot of mistakes because he was alone. He had no family.
There are quite a few problems with the movie that you very accurately pointed out. I think the biggest problem that most people are overlooking is #4 with the visual representation. After seeing the trailer it looks like they’re really going for a “realistic teen drama” visual approach which for a musical is booooring. While the stage show has the interesting screens and lighting it looks like the movie is just going for someone standing there in a realistic setting. It doesn’t add anything- it removes the visual style existing in the stage show, and hilghts the point you made that this movie was unusually rushed. It just seems like what we’re seeing and visual creativity was completely shoved to the side.
I’m also worried that this is going to leave a bad, boring impression that doesn’t represent what the show is.
This was such a good analysis! Especially for being your first video on the platform. I am actually looking forward to this film because I never got the opportunity to see Ben platt in the role. I was a busy and poor college student at the time. But it would be awesome if me and others like me could see the show, as you mentioned, as a professionally shot version of the live show. Watching it as a Hollywood movie will never produce the same atmosphere as the original. Some stories are just meant to be told on stage. Anyways, keep up the good work! I hope to see more from you in the future.
Ouuu im the 50th subscriber xD
This move just aged like fine red wine
36:57 When you stub your toe:
This is an excellent video, I subscribed!
You were right to be worried. The movie was a piece of shhiiit.
PS: You are the best movie critic.
are you clairvoyant
your last point about the differences between live theater and film is SO important. my family thinks i'm a snob when i talk about it, but they are two different mediums and things done on stage don't always translate to film, and vice versa. sometimes, especially with remakes, small changes are ok, but some changes mess with what the original work was supposed to provoke in the audience. and if a remake is the goal (as opposed to just a new interpretation of some source material), i think it should honor the spirit of the original work, and represent it well.
that being said, i know DEH is based on a book (and therefore already has some changes), but it seems that the movie is based on the musical, not the book or a mixture of both.
i think what hamilton did was amazing for exposing more people to the world of musical theater. but it seems that while it brought musicals into pop culture again, people forget that that was a pro shot, not a movie. (well more like a well done hybrid, but i digress).
i love a good film adaptation, but i also want more pro shots. DEH is a good example of that.
also sidebar, your point about loneliness is so great! i agree - there's nothing like the emptiness on a stage to convey profound loneliness.
I’m so glad I was recommended this video! You’re excellent at what you do! I’ve watched so so many videos about the movie since I saw it and, as somebody who went into it with zero context, I value the perspective of somebody who knows and loves it. I’m about 5 minutes in so I can’t comment further but I can tell, as other comments have said, that this has aged well, which I think speaKs to your enthusiasm
VERY WELL SAID, ESPECIALLY AS A MIXEDRACE PERSON HAVING WATCHED DEAR EVAN HANSEN AT WESTEND MUSICAL, IT’S A SHAME TO KNOW THAT THEY ACTUALLY MAKE RACE AN ISSUE BY HAVING TO RE-WRITE THE PLOT.
I've watched a lot of reviews about the dear evan hansen and yes they all hit hard but you've genuinely made me cry with that last point about the danger of glamourising suicide. This video is amazing, thank you.
this is my new favorite channel on all of youtube this video is so well done !!!!!!
You...love the musical? Dear God, how awful.
You are wonderful x
she tried to warn us
Thank you for this great breakdown and concerns about the movie. Did you see the movie yet ? Did it let you down? What did you think of the new songs? I did like the movie, but I’m not the target audience.
28:48 I think you seriously underestimate what film could be capable of achieving with musicals. Yeah, you can't capture the feeling of loneliness the same way the stage can, but that's because they're 2 very different mediums, and very different rules apply for each. I think that a lot of why stage-to-film adaptations of musicals suck has less to do with the medium itself & so much more to do with the filmmakers not being comfortable enough with both mediums. You need a great understanding of both to be able to effectively translate one to another. With that being said tho, I still don't have much faith in the DEH movie either 😂
Also bestie look into non reflective lenses for glasses they’re amazing and not too pricey depending where you get them
15:07 :)
Honestly I don't really like dear Evan Hansen because I feel like connera derah is just used a prop and as someone who struggles with suicidal thoughts and tendencies it hurts me.
Great work, your channel is under rated
Hi, can I ask where you got the bootleg footage for this video?
Search up ‘Dear Evan Hansen slime tutorial’
@@selectedshipper8282 I prefer to use Google drive links as opposed to watching them on UA-cam
you’re adorable
The memes are the best ! 👌👍
I agree with you on some of the points but I do think the movie will do well especially with Ben platt as Evan … he puts his whole heart into the role and that will really bump the movie up where it needs to be. Also I’d love to know what you thought of the trailer for the movie
Lovely👏
Have you seen the movie already???
Welp
I got a feeling maybe this is not the movie you want to go see because if you like the theater so much you may not like it. Me I would love to see both I just saw rent live I saw cats in theaters and I thought the movie and I still love her phone cuz it still had the songs and it still have the dance. Just know that the movie adapt is going to be so much different than the theaters and they have more room to do the musical in films and they do on stage your limited on stage
Wowwwww! Don’t over think it girl friend, it’s only make believe just enjoy the ride. If you like the music you’ll love the movie.
Well, Meg, you didn't want to end on that note, but you doubled down on it, didn't you? I respect that you have opinions--that's what this platform is for--but I'm guessing your video will probably do more harm than good, as rational as your points are. Ben Platt has one of the most beautifully expressive voices around, and I'm guessing that people will appreciate that and be moved, just as we all were on stage. The play as a movie will be what it is, and I hope that it's a hit, as many very successful films with actors older than the roles they play have been. Ben did his last performance only three years before filming--how much older do you think he looked in three years from the time he won the Tony? He looks fine in the trailer. Maybe the best thing for all of us really loyal fans of this amazing play is to speak optimistically of its chances. The naysayers will have plenty of time once the film is actually viewed and not simply speculation, to speak disparagingly of it. Of course, the reason film people hold their breath when a film premiers is that no one knows how the public will react. No worry that it will reach and bolster the people you and all of us are concerned about, though. As a mental health professional, I think this film will ultimately go a long way to help millions. And, yes, everyone should go see the play in a theater! I saw Ben do it (three times) and was blown away each time. I'm looking forward to being blown away again.I hope you finally love the film, Meg. It's hard to love something so much and worry that it's in jeopardy. Keep your fingers crossed!
I would have loved to see the characters be played by actual teenagers. Just imagine Finn Wolfhard playing Connor.
That would at least make it seem less... unnatural
WHERE DID U GET THE POLO I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR THAT FOR SO LONG
I know!!
They sell them on the website!