There was a panel-worshop at a recent pedagogical day at my college on "decolozining stem courses." Apparently mathematics is racist. These characters won't settle for just a handful of disciplines- they want it all.
Listening to the Concordia statement gave me heartburn. If they really care about unlearning colonism they should give up all their modern ways of life, laptops, smartphones, modern housing, anything made from plastic, etc cause it all came from "western ways of knowing". They should also give up their property to indigenous people and move out of the country because they are on indigenous land according to them.
"[De-colonization is] a necessary and ongoing process..." Who decided it was necessary? Why is it necessary? It's quite a big assertion to make, and yet they don't even bother to explain it.
ARE YOU BLIND??? Look around, the world has gone to shit feeding this social BS. Now if you are a money guy things are great; sell your soul and take your grate...
There were at least two Canadian academics and one Union organizer who, right after the attack, said that the decolonization movement in Canada should take inspiration from the Oct 7 attack in Israel. Let that sink in. This would have been AFTER they saw the footage from that sadistic attack. And after they saw the wholesale destruction and desecration of churches and monuments in reaction to the Kamloops story which was blatant nonsense from the start. Meanwhile, in anti Israel protests across the country protestors were drawing a connection between the “struggles” of Hamas and decolonization efforts in Canada. Scary stuff. “Once their rage explodes, they recover their lost coherence, they experience self-knowledge through reconstruction of themselves; from afar we see their war as the triumph of barbarity; but it proceeds on its own to gradually emancipate the fighter and progressively eliminates the colonial darkness inside and out. As soon as it begins it is merciless. Either one must remain terrified or become terrifying-which means surrendering to the dissociations of a fabricated life or conquering the unity of one’s native soil. When the peasants lay hands on a gun, the old myths fade, and one by one the taboos are overturned: a fighter’s weapon is his humanity. For in the first phase of the revolt killing is a necessity: killing a European is killing two birds with one stone, eliminating in one go oppressor and oppressed: leaving one man dead and the other man free.” Frantz Fanon, granddaddy of the decolonization movement.
In terms of substance DeSantis is a horrible analogy. I am hoping it was meant strictly to showcase the difficulty of legislating education, but in terms of secularism FL's governor is himself waging a war on truth.
You should be working to decolonize systemic racism, wrong rights of the past and provide equal opportunities for people..that doesn't mean destroy the country for lack of better words.
I can remember when these trends began in the 90's. "Hey hey, ho ho: Western Civ has got to go." I though surely there was a via media, a way to be inclusive without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Apparently not. Depressing.
Just a comment about humanities vs social sciences: I once watched an interview with a Nobel laureate in physics, David Gross, who said that he respected the arts but not the social sciences very much, due to the latter being pretty bogus and permeated by political correctness. The arts are more about expressing individual human emotions without the pomposity and pretense of explaining all of society.
Looking at Concordia from a historical viewpoint, it was a Christian university--half Catholic (Loyola) and half non-Catholic (YMCA). But maybe the modern Concordia is rootless?
6; how is learning about the ways of the rest of the world and ourselves, some how subjugating us to a secular formation, when studying one of the multiple we study???
I guess it means they’ll stop reading books, Gutenberg being a Eurocentric technology and way of teaching and learning, and go back to the oral tradition which is, say, more ‘indigenous’ ?
Part 3; religion is about guilt sin and blame, dominance...Spiritual is about responsibility, we are not guilty we are responsible...{quote} This is the knowledge he does not want you to discover; he wants you to stay plastic, stay with the existing influence, AKA HYPNOTIZIM...
Decolonization? All of this is symbolic, the same as when we erected statues, it was symbolic. We must stop celebrating political figures. Politicians are well paid for their service. As a Canadian born and raised, I love my country and couldn’t care less if all the statues were removed.
You know, sometimes when you want to know stuff, its worth actually finding out what things mean. Recommended Action 2.1: Develop a plan to build the capacity of faculty members to decolonize and indigenize curriculum content across all academic departments. Recommended Action 2.2: Create teaching and learning opportunities for all Concordia students to gain awareness of Indigenous peoples, their histories, cultures and contemporary issues. Now, the second doens't even deserve discussion, its pretty straight forward. In the first place its training faculty members. HOW thats done is of course a big issue, that it SHOULD be done is almost without question. Pretty much all he said was just gibberish that had nothing at all to do with decolonization methods. If he thinks the 'western' way is to separate faith from knowledge then he really doesn't understand EITHER, and certainly doesn't understand western society where we are seeing massive evangelical and religious political movements to dogmatically categorize reality along with judeo christian beliefs. But I think people like Frum really don't like this kind of thing because of course he knows SQUAT about first nations and as that happens he will be less sought out as a guest.
@@tanler7953 I didn't say anyting about choosing one system over another, neither do colleges, neither does even western science. All kinds of science now is done WITH first nations. And frankly a lot of it in biology is done with women leading the way. For example, first nations always talked about trees communicating. When I was in school decades ago such notions were laughed at. Today forest biologists have found that forests do actually communicate through fungi in temperate forests. Of coures 'communication' doesn't mean "hi bob, hows the kids", but trees lacking in nourishment will send out alarms which are answered by other trees. In fact its been found that trees are as xenophobic as people-trees of the same mother, the same family, tend to send nourishment through root systems to one another moreso than trees which are unrelated. Thats western science catching up to first nations knowledge of centuries ago. Scientists in Australia are working with aboriginals on astrology because it turns out they have records FAR earlier than anything we've had in the west, which only even ACCEPTED science as a study about three centuries ago. So this isn't a matter of picking one over another. The example of Concordia is likely mostly PR bs, same as more college regulations. But its just about redressing past biases.
@@mikearchibald744 It’s not surprising that indigenous people who’ve spent millennia living in a certain environment would pick up on hidden interactions among plant or animal life or have astrological records that were previously indecipherable. But, with all due respect, these are examples of reconciliation indigenization, not decolonization. I agree that some items of indigenous knowledge can be incorporated into a Eurocentric scientific framework. Decolonization, on the other hand, is a complete rejection of Enlightenment values. The Enlightenment was primarily a movement against the Catholic Church that replaced dogma with knowledge derived from rationalism and empiricism. The indigenous approach to knowledge is completely different. It is based on lived experience and indigenous values. Indigenous peoples have traditionally rejected hierarchical political structures, economic competition and the desire to exercise control over nature. If the goal is to live in harmony with nature and not dominate it, then there’s no need to develop systems that test and verify hypothesis. Once Europeans arrived they imposed their own reality on indigenous peoples. There wasn’t a collective, united response. Different First Nations responded differently. So, I think one of the goals of the decolonization movement is to get all indigenous peoples to respond as a single united collective. This desire for unity has encouraged some people to take a radical position. When Frum says that the difference between western and indigenous ways of knowing is a conflict between science and religion what he really means is that faculty is gradually being replaced by the most radical elements.
@@tanler7953 I have no idea what your comment on Frum means, but it sounds like YOU have more knowledge of this than Frum so I'm perfectly happy to ignore his gibberish and look at your comments. You bring up many important points but dismiss them too quickly, which I think is too simplistic-or at least I don't understand what you mean. First, first nation knowledge most certainly is aligned with the scientific method. A CHILDS learning is aligned with the 'hypothesis-test-evaluate' formulaiton of the scientific method. EVERY society is based on that....up to the point of POLITICAL realities. Where it stops, and HAS to stop is when a King or government says "this is what you do". Then any normal society would say "ok, what if we do this as a test to evaluate..." "NO, I'm king, I'm government, we do what I say". There ends science AND religion. It becomes imperialism. Its not even POLITICAL science, it is simply imperialism. You are right that WE shouldn't get to decide what decolonization means. Same reason I dont 'really' listen, but will debate, when any white canadian tries to lecture about colonial issues. I have useful 'read' knowledge, I'd never pretent to know the experience. Which is ironic and partly propagandistic. I'm mainly scottish. Which means MY ancestors suffered the same fate except they were turfed to another country, thats how colonization has ALWAYS worked. But when people say others should 'talk english', I say that i SHOULD be speaking gaelic. Thats my 'native' tongue, it was 'beaten' out of 'my people'. However, people like Frum WILL try to control how decolonization works. This isn't even political, its a college,a 'private' enterprise. In my society a first nations made a modest request of changing the name of a river. It has a stupid name anyway, but the response was "no way, no discussion". So there isn't even an ATTEMPT yet at reconciliation by government, let alone decolonization. You said it perfectly of where the difference lies. Not in science or leaning but POLITICS. We are imperialistic and hierarchical. They are democratic and egalitarian. Ironically we SUPPOSEDLY claim we are a democracy and a BETTER democracy but we INSIST on hierarchy, which is the opposite of democracy. I would argue WE are subject to that imperialism as much as they are, and why there is this IMPERIAL objection to first nations is the simple fact that likely MOST canadians would prefer their system. And as I say about immigration, WE are learning the government sees US no different than first nations. So so much for 'democracy'.
@@mikearchibald744 That was an interesting and thoughtful response. However, it seems we are living in different realities. Your government doesn’t care about reconciliation. My government’s paid out over five billion in residential school compensation and other claims. If they want to change the name of a river, they can pay for it. In your “society”, the government is not listening to FN people. Okay. In my society, there’s no white people. I live in Toronto. I went to my bank last week. I’m the only white guy there. All the staff is South Asian. The bank manager’s from Pakistan. Don’t get me wrong, the guy is brilliant. He worked all over the Middle East, Kuwait, UAE, but he chose Canada. We’re lucky to have him. You say you were forced to speak English. I’m sorry that happened. All my neighbors here speak English as a second language. Most speak it better than I do. And I’m glad I can communicate with them. You say we’re being oppressed by the government. Okay. But what government? My city councilor is Shri Lankan. My MPP Bangladeshi. My MP is white, I give you that. But he’ll be the last one. Democracy and egalitarianism. I’m not much for egalitarianism. Looks good on paper but is usually a disaster when people try to implement it as a political or economic system. When India got its independence, they asked Nehru why are you giving the vote to the masses? (At the time, 90% of the people were illiterate.) So Nehru goes, “You don’t have to have a college education to know if the government is a good one or a bad one.” People hate him now because he was a socialist. But I liked him. In my view, democracy is just a thumbs up or a thumbs down on how the government’s doing. That’s all. In your reality white people are still the dominant group. That’s probably true for Canada as a whole. But the latest stats show that South Asians and East Asians have the highest wages and the best education. That’s the future.
4; "none western ways" appear satanic; "knowledge can be separated from faith(GOD!!!). That is as arrogant a phrase as I have heard in a while...spirit is knowledge; wisdom its human consumption; translation is based on intelligence; here we have an example of none.
All non Western ways of knowledge are religious? Maybe that is "not true." Perhaps, it is a good thing to recognize the cultural and literal genocide of Indigenous peoples...? Recognizing how Canadians benefit from that genocide is added knowledge, new knowledge. "Unlearning" the conventional views of history is changing perspectives....learning history from the Indigenous point of view...Like the Indigenous scholar Thomas King.....Plagiarism is a separate issue. It is taken seriously by many universities and scholars....? I guess things in the past were "arranged differently" when we heard about the "axis of evil" from David From writing for George W Bush. That was his truth I suppose. But was it The truth? He has taken a hit for saying that, but I would never want to cancel him for that. It is a part of his history. All that justifying the Iraq War, etc. Kinda embarrassing to say the least. Dogma intellectual precision.
There was a panel-worshop at a recent pedagogical day at my college on "decolozining stem courses." Apparently mathematics is racist. These characters won't settle for just a handful of disciplines- they want it all.
Listening to the Concordia statement gave me heartburn. If they really care about unlearning colonism they should give up all their modern ways of life, laptops, smartphones, modern housing, anything made from plastic, etc cause it all came from "western ways of knowing". They should also give up their property to indigenous people and move out of the country because they are on indigenous land according to them.
I’m glad my history department wasn’t infected by these trends when I was going to University.
LOL, dude, your history wasn't just infected, it was the disease.
I graduated from SGWU, pre Concordia. Sometimes it pays to be older.
Moi aussi!
"[De-colonization is] a necessary and ongoing process..."
Who decided it was necessary? Why is it necessary? It's quite a big assertion to make, and yet they don't even bother to explain it.
ARE YOU BLIND??? Look around, the world has gone to shit feeding this social BS. Now if you are a money guy things are great; sell your soul and take your grate...
Their Dark lord commands it, and they obey.
I graduated from Concordia (Sir George Williams) University in 1971. I’m glad I cancelled my financial contribution.
really enjoy your show. This is a very small complaint. The movement in your back ground is very distracting.
I listen and never watch for exactly that reason!
@@adteachings Thanks for your reply. I will give just listening a try next time.
Could not agree more….
If there is more measured, insightful, and thought-provoking conversation on the internet, then this viewer is not aware of it. Well done, Hub Canada.
wow, dont get out much...try the web
@@sameasis.knownreligion IKR
PS How is learning about our history, decolonizing us, unless you feel what we will learn will drive us away?
Well said David.
There were at least two Canadian academics and one Union organizer who, right after the attack, said that the decolonization movement in Canada should take inspiration from the Oct 7 attack in Israel. Let that sink in.
This would have been AFTER they saw the footage from that sadistic attack.
And after they saw the wholesale destruction and desecration of churches and monuments in reaction to the Kamloops story which was blatant nonsense from the start.
Meanwhile, in anti Israel protests across the country protestors were drawing a connection between the “struggles” of Hamas and decolonization efforts in Canada. Scary stuff.
“Once their rage explodes, they recover their lost coherence, they experience self-knowledge through reconstruction of themselves; from afar we see their war as the triumph of barbarity; but it proceeds on its own to gradually emancipate the fighter and progressively eliminates the colonial darkness inside and out. As soon as it begins it is merciless. Either one must remain terrified or become terrifying-which means surrendering to the dissociations of a fabricated life or conquering the unity of one’s native soil. When the peasants lay hands on a gun, the old myths fade, and one by one the taboos are overturned: a fighter’s weapon is his humanity. For in the first phase of the revolt killing is a necessity: killing a European is killing two birds with one stone, eliminating in one go oppressor and oppressed: leaving one man dead and the other man free.”
Frantz Fanon, granddaddy of the decolonization movement.
These young people don’t know what they are doing, like the previous generations
In terms of substance DeSantis is a horrible analogy. I am hoping it was meant strictly to showcase the difficulty of legislating education, but in terms of secularism FL's governor is himself waging a war on truth.
Lord help Concordia as it sinks into irrelevance. I Cannot believe the quote was written by an actual person. Every cliché in the book!
You should be working to decolonize systemic racism, wrong rights of the past and provide equal opportunities for people..that doesn't mean destroy the country for lack of better words.
David would do well to install a close-up mic, as the room sound is somewhat distracting.
Here is a great quote BY 5:20: UNLEARN... IS UNPROGRAM...NOT DUMB DOWN BUT ENLIGHTEN...
I am so glad I am not a student at Concordia.
I can remember when these trends began in the 90's. "Hey hey, ho ho: Western Civ has got to go." I though surely there was a via media, a way to be inclusive without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Apparently not. Depressing.
Frum is priceless and scathing.
Just a comment about humanities vs social sciences: I once watched an interview with a Nobel laureate in physics, David Gross, who said that he respected the arts but not the social sciences very much, due to the latter being pretty bogus and permeated by political correctness. The arts are more about expressing individual human emotions without the pomposity and pretense of explaining all of society.
Looking at Concordia from a historical viewpoint, it was a Christian university--half Catholic (Loyola) and half non-Catholic (YMCA). But maybe the modern Concordia is rootless?
IF YOU NEED ME TO GO FURTHER LET ME KNOW...
It took until the protests on campus around Hamas to see that this stuff wasnt just "harmless? Wow
6; how is learning about the ways of the rest of the world and ourselves, some how subjugating us to a secular formation, when studying one of the multiple we study???
I guess it means they’ll stop reading books, Gutenberg being a Eurocentric technology and way of teaching and learning, and go back to the oral tradition which is, say, more ‘indigenous’ ?
That was indeed a very insightful conversation. Thank you.
where???
5; ignorance when cornered truly has no balls; natural health is a lie??? And some how only associated with aboriginals???
Excellent insights, thank you.
what insights???
Well said, thank you.
what was???
Part 3; religion is about guilt sin and blame, dominance...Spiritual is about responsibility, we are not guilty we are responsible...{quote} This is the knowledge he does not want you to discover; he wants you to stay plastic, stay with the existing influence, AKA HYPNOTIZIM...
Depends what Blackrock and Vanguard are up to?.
Spin!
Decolonization? All of this is symbolic, the same as when we erected statues, it was symbolic. We must stop celebrating political figures. Politicians are well paid for their service. As a Canadian born and raised, I love my country and couldn’t care less if all the statues were removed.
The statues are not the problem. When people go and tear them down it's because they've accepted a certain narrative. Do you care about the narrative?
Time to let go of NATO. Europe free! Make up your mind: if you’re not western, bye bye. I’ll keep reading Thucydides in Europe.
You know, sometimes when you want to know stuff, its worth actually finding out what things mean.
Recommended Action 2.1: Develop a plan to build the capacity of faculty members to decolonize and indigenize curriculum content across all academic departments.
Recommended Action 2.2: Create teaching and learning opportunities for all Concordia students to gain awareness of Indigenous peoples, their histories, cultures and contemporary issues.
Now, the second doens't even deserve discussion, its pretty straight forward. In the first place its training faculty members. HOW thats done is of course a big issue, that it SHOULD be done is almost without question.
Pretty much all he said was just gibberish that had nothing at all to do with decolonization methods. If he thinks the 'western' way is to separate faith from knowledge then he really doesn't understand EITHER, and certainly doesn't understand western society where we are seeing massive evangelical and religious political movements to dogmatically categorize reality along with judeo christian beliefs.
But I think people like Frum really don't like this kind of thing because of course he knows SQUAT about first nations and as that happens he will be less sought out as a guest.
I agree. But indigenous way of knowing is just as biased. What's your reason for supporting one system over the other?
@@tanler7953 I didn't say anyting about choosing one system over another, neither do colleges, neither does even western science.
All kinds of science now is done WITH first nations. And frankly a lot of it in biology is done with women leading the way.
For example, first nations always talked about trees communicating. When I was in school decades ago such notions were laughed at.
Today forest biologists have found that forests do actually communicate through fungi in temperate forests. Of coures 'communication' doesn't mean "hi bob, hows the kids", but trees lacking in nourishment will send out alarms which are answered by other trees. In fact its been found that trees are as xenophobic as people-trees of the same mother, the same family, tend to send nourishment through root systems to one another moreso than trees which are unrelated.
Thats western science catching up to first nations knowledge of centuries ago. Scientists in Australia are working with aboriginals on astrology because it turns out they have records FAR earlier than anything we've had in the west, which only even ACCEPTED science as a study about three centuries ago.
So this isn't a matter of picking one over another. The example of Concordia is likely mostly PR bs, same as more college regulations. But its just about redressing past biases.
@@mikearchibald744 It’s not surprising that indigenous people who’ve spent millennia living in a certain environment would pick up on hidden interactions among plant or animal life or have astrological records that were previously indecipherable. But, with all due respect, these are examples of reconciliation indigenization, not decolonization. I agree that some items of indigenous knowledge can be incorporated into a Eurocentric scientific framework. Decolonization, on the other hand, is a complete rejection of Enlightenment values. The Enlightenment was primarily a movement against the Catholic Church that replaced dogma with knowledge derived from rationalism and empiricism. The indigenous approach to knowledge is completely different. It is based on lived experience and indigenous values. Indigenous peoples have traditionally rejected hierarchical political structures, economic competition and the desire to exercise control over nature. If the goal is to live in harmony with nature and not dominate it, then there’s no need to develop systems that test and verify hypothesis. Once Europeans arrived they imposed their own reality on indigenous peoples. There wasn’t a collective, united response. Different First Nations responded differently. So, I think one of the goals of the decolonization movement is to get all indigenous peoples to respond as a single united collective. This desire for unity has encouraged some people to take a radical position. When Frum says that the difference between western and indigenous ways of knowing is a conflict between science and religion what he really means is that faculty is gradually being replaced by the most radical elements.
@@tanler7953 I have no idea what your comment on Frum means, but it sounds like YOU have more knowledge of this than Frum so I'm perfectly happy to ignore his gibberish and look at your comments.
You bring up many important points but dismiss them too quickly, which I think is too simplistic-or at least I don't understand what you mean.
First, first nation knowledge most certainly is aligned with the scientific method. A CHILDS learning is aligned with the 'hypothesis-test-evaluate' formulaiton of the scientific method. EVERY society is based on that....up to the point of POLITICAL realities.
Where it stops, and HAS to stop is when a King or government says "this is what you do". Then any normal society would say "ok, what if we do this as a test to evaluate..." "NO, I'm king, I'm government, we do what I say". There ends science AND religion. It becomes imperialism. Its not even POLITICAL science, it is simply imperialism.
You are right that WE shouldn't get to decide what decolonization means. Same reason I dont 'really' listen, but will debate, when any white canadian tries to lecture about colonial issues. I have useful 'read' knowledge, I'd never pretent to know the experience.
Which is ironic and partly propagandistic. I'm mainly scottish. Which means MY ancestors suffered the same fate except they were turfed to another country, thats how colonization has ALWAYS worked.
But when people say others should 'talk english', I say that i SHOULD be speaking gaelic. Thats my 'native' tongue, it was 'beaten' out of 'my people'.
However, people like Frum WILL try to control how decolonization works. This isn't even political, its a college,a 'private' enterprise. In my society a first nations made a modest request of changing the name of a river. It has a stupid name anyway, but the response was "no way, no discussion". So there isn't even an ATTEMPT yet at reconciliation by government, let alone decolonization.
You said it perfectly of where the difference lies. Not in science or leaning but POLITICS. We are imperialistic and hierarchical. They are democratic and egalitarian.
Ironically we SUPPOSEDLY claim we are a democracy and a BETTER democracy but we INSIST on hierarchy, which is the opposite of democracy.
I would argue WE are subject to that imperialism as much as they are, and why there is this IMPERIAL objection to first nations is the simple fact that likely MOST canadians would prefer their system.
And as I say about immigration, WE are learning the government sees US no different than first nations. So so much for 'democracy'.
@@mikearchibald744 That was an interesting and thoughtful response. However, it seems we are living in different realities. Your government doesn’t care about reconciliation. My government’s paid out over five billion in residential school compensation and other claims. If they want to change the name of a river, they can pay for it. In your “society”, the government is not listening to FN people. Okay. In my society, there’s no white people. I live in Toronto. I went to my bank last week. I’m the only white guy there. All the staff is South Asian. The bank manager’s from Pakistan. Don’t get me wrong, the guy is brilliant. He worked all over the Middle East, Kuwait, UAE, but he chose Canada. We’re lucky to have him. You say you were forced to speak English. I’m sorry that happened. All my neighbors here speak English as a second language. Most speak it better than I do. And I’m glad I can communicate with them. You say we’re being oppressed by the government. Okay. But what government? My city councilor is Shri Lankan. My MPP Bangladeshi. My MP is white, I give you that. But he’ll be the last one. Democracy and egalitarianism. I’m not much for egalitarianism. Looks good on paper but is usually a disaster when people try to implement it as a political or economic system. When India got its independence, they asked Nehru why are you giving the vote to the masses? (At the time, 90% of the people were illiterate.) So Nehru goes, “You don’t have to have a college education to know if the government is a good one or a bad one.” People hate him now because he was a socialist. But I liked him. In my view, democracy is just a thumbs up or a thumbs down on how the government’s doing. That’s all. In your reality white people are still the dominant group. That’s probably true for Canada as a whole. But the latest stats show that South Asians and East Asians have the highest wages and the best education. That’s the future.
4; "none western ways" appear satanic; "knowledge can be separated from faith(GOD!!!). That is as arrogant a phrase as I have heard in a while...spirit is knowledge; wisdom its human consumption; translation is based on intelligence; here we have an example of none.
If u want to know what is Not going on in conservative politics, this ur guy ,he can strike out 9 out 10 time's on American politics
All non Western ways of knowledge are religious? Maybe that is "not true." Perhaps, it is a good thing to recognize the cultural and literal genocide of Indigenous peoples...? Recognizing how Canadians benefit from that genocide is added knowledge, new knowledge. "Unlearning" the conventional views of history is changing perspectives....learning history from the Indigenous point of view...Like the Indigenous scholar Thomas King.....Plagiarism is a separate issue. It is taken seriously by many universities and scholars....? I guess things in the past were "arranged differently" when we heard about the "axis of evil" from David From writing for George W Bush. That was his truth I suppose. But was it The truth? He has taken a hit for saying that, but I would never want to cancel him for that. It is a part of his history. All that justifying the Iraq War, etc. Kinda embarrassing to say the least. Dogma intellectual precision.
Holy shite! Word salad.