Wow! Impressive analysis. I hope the bill goes far (I'm too cynical to expect it to actually pass, at least the first couple times, but I hope it gains traction and starts a mainstream discussion at least.)
Playing devils advocate; If leaders see the economy as a money making machine, why would you give poor old people the dignity of a retirement? Isn't it better to keep them at work, producing tax dollars? If they die off a little quicker, then again, it should reduce maintenance costs, adding to the GDP. Perhaps the young will see these poor wretches and work a little harder in case this becomes their fate? I like your idea of financial respect for over 65 year olds. But who pays for it and how? WRT: Jobs for old people; It's brutal. At that age, you are looking for "tick over" money. After all your needs are few. This market is extremely limited. Try finding a local job that offers 20 hours a week, at a reasonable wage. It seems to be all or nothing. Either its full time employment, with reasonable overtime (read 55 hours a week) or the dregs.
The young will opt out like they are doing as we speak due to seeing its a game of extracting labor from them. 9 million men (very likely more) are refusing to take part in the economy. Young people are also refusing to have children due to our economy.
Keeping older people in the workforce increases the labor supply which in turn depresses wages for everyone including the young. Many people are forced to retire because of layoffs or sickness. Many corporate employers prefer hiring or keeping a younger person than an older one. That's just the reality.
In China, blue collar working women receive a full pension at age 50 while white collar working women receive theirs at age 55. Chinese men received their pension at age 60.
I found her comments on dignity to be interesting. As an intrinsic value, how can anyone put an extrinsic value upon it, especially in fiscal terms (i.e., denying someone their dignity)? If dignity is an intrinsic value, then what about personal responsibility for living in a free society (as in freedom)? Does this not carry a heavy burden on the individual? It's easy to talk about spending other peoples' money, but at what cost? Our debt levels are so high, I worry about our current and future generations.
The government employees are the only ones with pensions now a days and they also have 403b plan to boot! ERISA (1974) was supposed to oversee pensions plans, but my plan was terminated in 1994 and given to the PBGC due to underfunding. The 401k plan has been my retirement for 30 years and will always be mine, my wife's and my kids. It is not a "benefit" as the government says of SSA. How did the government go from a surplus in SSA years ago to an incredible deficit other than miss management?
Answer: 1) Congress borrowing for the Social Security Fund; 2) Also, demographics play a part - people, on average, live much longer than when SS was created by FDR & Congress way back in 1935.
Redistribution should not be a bad word, but we have been brain washed to think it is. And its mostly the ones who have nothing who are the biggest supporters of the rich getting more. Make it make sense
Capitalism can be a better system in countries where people are better educated and can vote for competent politicians who care about their people and want to put the work to make the system work for all, not just for a small percentage of the population who keeps getting richer while the rest keeps getting poorer. On the other hand, Communism doesn't work simply because there is no private property and free market, and it's a heaven for dictators who see an opportunity to exploit the poor and uneducated sectors of a society. Socialism is a bad blend of both systems, focused on the collective good, and it's been proved to be a failed system as well, a utopia of an ideal society. How do I know? Well, 25 years living in Cuba, a total nightmare! I also lived a few years in Guatemala, which is the definition of a Banana Republic under a "wild capitalism" system (high indexes of violence, almost no rule of law, corruption at all levels, and extreme poverty.) And last, 20 years living in USA, which in my opinion is a country with a system in decay in large part due to greed by corporations and abysmal inequality between the top and bottom of the income distribution, and also in the last few years I've witnessed a serious attempt to destroy the American values and democracy as a form of government by political and religious organizations, both domestic and foreign. America is literally following the path of the Roman Republic, and communist China knows it. What a shame. Self-imploded destruction unless politicians stop playing absurd games of power and greed.
Responsibility: the ability to respond. Should we be responsible for our own lives? What if I party everyday and never save a dime? Yep . . . Its society's fault!
It's also American culture. You see other cultures like people from India, Mexico, Africa, etc. They take care of their elders and treat them like heroes. Their elders are taken care and then the knowledge is passed onto the grandchildren. In the States with the help of social media it's glorified to only think about yourselves and you could be content not having children. It's more so a family thing.
The core of this problem is lack of financial literacy in our education system. We need to educate our young people now so that they can make better financial decisions later.
Having a required "financial literacy" class at, perhaps, the high school level would be ideal - but that can already happen if School Districts were compelled to do so by their voters. Unlike in other wealthy countries, public ed. is mostly controlled at the local level. Why couldn't these core lessons be taught by the parents, first and foremost? As a senior (who retired very comfortably at 55), my own parents were exceedingly careful with their money as they both had vivid memories of the Great Depression. They were practically "allergic" to debt. My Dad never even agreed to get a credit card until I was a freshman in college. The " national retirement crisis" here that she accurately describes simply doesnt exist in most of western Europe. Her proposal really deserves serious consideration. Our present dilemma is dreadful and only going to get more extreme in coming decades.
Oh Professor I'd argue the 401k is incredibly successful. Successful if you're Vanguard, Fidelity, Black Rock,.... $8 Trillion under 401k management throws off Titanic sized fees to suits.
Why is it that to my knowledge Alaska is the only State where residents receive petroleum dividend payments? Shouldn't all citizens receive dividends from the resources extracted from the land and sea the government owns to fund a pension system or sovereign wealth fund?
Why was my comment about Chinese worker retirement age being 50 for women in blue collar jobs, 55 for women in white collar jobs and 60 for all men deleted? Maybe we can learn a thing or two from their system too.
Ghilladucci has a lot of pithy comments about the current state of retirement and Social Security, inter alia. I was curious and looked her up on wiki. She is going to turn 67 in 2024...it appears to me she is still working! I am not criticizing her but I wonder if that is slightly ironic and what her response might be.
Since she's working as an academic (rather than "breaking her back" in the sevice sector, or something similar), have you considered that she may still be working at 67 because she finds this topic intellectually rewarding and important for American society? Apparently not.
Capitalism has raised more people out of poverty than any other economic system thus far. It is perfect ?? ... NO. Rather than abolishing capitalism, let's have a rational conversation about how to improve it. History shows that socialism, democratic socialism, and communism doesn't work at scale and have all resulted in the death of 100's of millions of people in the last century. It's undisputed.
Not abolished but evolved. Capitalism can be a better system in countries where people are better educated and can vote for competent politicians who care about their people and want to put the work to make the system work for all, not just for a small percentage of the population who keeps getting richer while the rest keeps getting poorer. On the other hand, Communism doesn't work simply because there is no private property and free market, and it's a heaven for dictators who see an opportunity to exploit the poor and uneducated sectors of a society. Socialism is a variation of both system, focused on the collective good, but it's a failed system as well, a utopia of an ideal society. How do I know? Well, 25 years living in Cuba, a total nightmare! Then a few years living in Guatemala, which is the definition of a banana republic under a wild capitalism system (almost no rule of law, corruption at all levels, and extreme poverty.) And last, 20 years living in USA, which in my opinion is a country with a system in decay in large part due to greed by corporations and abysmal inequality between the top and bottom of the income distribution, and in the last few years a serious attempt to destroy the American values and democracy as a form of government by political and religious organizations, both domestic and foreign. America is literally following the path of the Roman Republic. What a shame.
Moving in coming years from a purely (dog-eat-dog) Free Market system to a Social Market system (aka, Germany) would be ideal. I've lived in Germany and travel there often. This "retirement crisis phenomenon" simply doesnt exist there, nor in most western European nations. Their taxes are a bit high (and dramatically higher for the wealthy, as it used to be here), but Europeans get a whole lot more for their money than US taxpayers. To say that the overall "quality of life" is better in Europe would be an enormous understatement !
The 401K. When this came out how many people knew what to invest their money in? Hard working Americans who have full time jobs, families, when do they have time to do their homework on financial literacy? Those who praise this confusing investment plan don’t know what’s in their Growth Fund, their Value Fund or their Foreign Investment Fund. I asked my broker about this? Could never get an answer. Nice. But they love pulling that monthly fee from my account.
Thanks for the work you are doing for us older Americans.
Agree 100%
Wow! Impressive analysis. I hope the bill goes far (I'm too cynical to expect it to actually pass, at least the first couple times, but I hope it gains traction and starts a mainstream discussion at least.)
Playing devils advocate; If leaders see the economy as a money making machine, why would you give poor old people the dignity of a retirement? Isn't it better to keep them at work, producing tax dollars? If they die off a little quicker, then again, it should reduce maintenance costs, adding to the GDP. Perhaps the young will see these poor wretches and work a little harder in case this becomes their fate? I like your idea of financial respect for over 65 year olds. But who pays for it and how?
WRT: Jobs for old people; It's brutal. At that age, you are looking for "tick over" money. After all your needs are few. This market is extremely limited. Try finding a local job that offers 20 hours a week, at a reasonable wage. It seems to be all or nothing. Either its full time employment, with reasonable overtime (read 55 hours a week) or the dregs.
The young will opt out like they are doing as we speak due to seeing its a game of extracting labor from them. 9 million men (very likely more) are refusing to take part in the economy. Young people are also refusing to have children due to our economy.
Keeping older people in the workforce increases the labor supply which in turn depresses wages for everyone including the young. Many people are forced to retire because of layoffs or sickness. Many corporate employers prefer hiring or keeping a younger person than an older one. That's just the reality.
The Economic Man
💯
In China, blue collar working women receive a full pension at age 50 while white collar working women receive theirs at age 55. Chinese men received their pension at age 60.
I found her comments on dignity to be interesting. As an intrinsic value, how can anyone put an extrinsic value upon it, especially in fiscal terms (i.e., denying someone their dignity)? If dignity is an intrinsic value, then what about personal responsibility for living in a free society (as in freedom)? Does this not carry a heavy burden on the individual?
It's easy to talk about spending other peoples' money, but at what cost? Our debt levels are so high, I worry about our current and future generations.
The government employees are the only ones with pensions now a days and they also have 403b plan to boot! ERISA (1974) was supposed to oversee pensions plans, but my plan was terminated in 1994 and given to the PBGC due to underfunding. The 401k plan has been my retirement for 30 years and will always be mine, my wife's and my kids. It is not a "benefit" as the government says of SSA. How did the government go from a surplus in SSA years ago to an incredible deficit other than miss management?
Answer: 1) Congress borrowing for the Social Security Fund; 2) Also, demographics play a part - people, on average, live much longer than when SS was created by FDR & Congress way back in 1935.
@@raymondmiller5098 Covid shortens life expectancy.
All the presidents from Ronald Regan to GW Bush dipped into the social security system to fund their own programs. Thank them for the deficit.
Redistribution should not be a bad word, but we have been brain washed to think it is. And its mostly the ones who have nothing who are the biggest supporters of the rich getting more. Make it make sense
Freedom = No seat belts.
Mmmm. Freedom = Choice .
Capitalism can be a better system in countries where people are better educated and can vote for competent politicians who care about their people and want to put the work to make the system work for all, not just for a small percentage of the population who keeps getting richer while the rest keeps getting poorer. On the other hand, Communism doesn't work simply because there is no private property and free market, and it's a heaven for dictators who see an opportunity to exploit the poor and uneducated sectors of a society. Socialism is a bad blend of both systems, focused on the collective good, and it's been proved to be a failed system as well, a utopia of an ideal society. How do I know? Well, 25 years living in Cuba, a total nightmare! I also lived a few years in Guatemala, which is the definition of a Banana Republic under a "wild capitalism" system (high indexes of violence, almost no rule of law, corruption at all levels, and extreme poverty.) And last, 20 years living in USA, which in my opinion is a country with a system in decay in large part due to greed by corporations and abysmal inequality between the top and bottom of the income distribution, and also in the last few years I've witnessed a serious attempt to destroy the American values and democracy as a form of government by political and religious organizations, both domestic and foreign. America is literally following the path of the Roman Republic, and communist China knows it. What a shame. Self-imploded destruction unless politicians stop playing absurd games of power and greed.
Have to ever been to China and see what has happened? Clearly not
Responsibility: the ability to respond. Should we be responsible for our own lives? What if I party everyday and never save a dime? Yep . . . Its society's fault!
You think that’s the real and only line of demarcation between poverty and well-being? 😄
It's also American culture. You see other cultures like people from India, Mexico, Africa, etc. They take care of their elders and treat them like heroes. Their elders are taken care and then the knowledge is passed onto the grandchildren. In the States with the help of social media it's glorified to only think about yourselves and you could be content not having children. It's more so a family thing.
The core of this problem is lack of financial literacy in our education system. We need to educate our young people now so that they can make better financial decisions later.
I agree but it is way deeper than that.
yes a complete rolocation of responsibility from society, comunity and family to the individual's educational knowledge. Smashing capitalist-pg.
Having a required "financial literacy" class at, perhaps, the high school level would be ideal - but that can already happen if School Districts were compelled to do so by their voters. Unlike in other wealthy countries, public ed. is mostly controlled at the local level. Why couldn't these core lessons be taught by the parents, first and foremost? As a senior (who retired very comfortably at 55), my own parents were exceedingly careful with their money as they both had vivid memories of the Great Depression. They were practically "allergic" to debt. My Dad never even agreed to get a credit card until I was a freshman in college. The " national retirement crisis" here that she accurately describes simply doesnt exist in most of western Europe. Her proposal really deserves serious consideration. Our present dilemma is dreadful and only going to get more extreme in coming decades.
Oh Professor I'd argue the 401k is incredibly successful. Successful if you're Vanguard, Fidelity, Black Rock,.... $8 Trillion under 401k management throws off Titanic sized fees to suits.
Why is it that to my knowledge Alaska is the only State where residents receive petroleum dividend payments? Shouldn't all citizens receive dividends from the resources extracted from the land and sea the government owns to fund a pension system or sovereign wealth fund?
Why was my comment about Chinese worker retirement age being 50 for women in blue collar jobs, 55 for women in white collar jobs and 60 for all men deleted? Maybe we can learn a thing or two from their system too.
Ghilladucci has a lot of pithy comments about the current state of retirement and Social Security, inter alia. I was curious and looked her up on wiki. She is going to turn 67 in 2024...it appears to me she is still working! I am not criticizing her but I wonder if that is slightly ironic and what her response might be.
Since she's working as an academic (rather than "breaking her back" in the sevice sector, or something similar), have you considered that she may still be working at 67 because she finds this topic intellectually rewarding and important for American society? Apparently not.
That's just a band aid. Capitalism needs to be abolished.
Capitalism has raised more people out of poverty than any other economic system thus far. It is perfect ?? ... NO. Rather than abolishing capitalism, let's have a rational conversation about how to improve it. History shows that socialism, democratic socialism, and communism doesn't work at scale and have all resulted in the death of 100's of millions of people in the last century. It's undisputed.
Not abolished but evolved. Capitalism can be a better system in countries where people are better educated and can vote for competent politicians who care about their people and want to put the work to make the system work for all, not just for a small percentage of the population who keeps getting richer while the rest keeps getting poorer. On the other hand, Communism doesn't work simply because there is no private property and free market, and it's a heaven for dictators who see an opportunity to exploit the poor and uneducated sectors of a society. Socialism is a variation of both system, focused on the collective good, but it's a failed system as well, a utopia of an ideal society. How do I know? Well, 25 years living in Cuba, a total nightmare! Then a few years living in Guatemala, which is the definition of a banana republic under a wild capitalism system (almost no rule of law, corruption at all levels, and extreme poverty.) And last, 20 years living in USA, which in my opinion is a country with a system in decay in large part due to greed by corporations and abysmal inequality between the top and bottom of the income distribution, and in the last few years a serious attempt to destroy the American values and democracy as a form of government by political and religious organizations, both domestic and foreign. America is literally following the path of the Roman Republic. What a shame.
@timmy-wj2hc Move to North Korea, my friend, and enjoy equality . . .
Moving in coming years from a purely (dog-eat-dog) Free Market system to a Social Market system (aka, Germany) would be ideal. I've lived in Germany and travel there often. This "retirement crisis phenomenon" simply doesnt exist there, nor in most western European nations. Their taxes are a bit high (and dramatically higher for the wealthy, as it used to be here), but Europeans get a whole lot more for their money than US taxpayers. To say that the overall "quality of life" is better in Europe would be an enormous understatement !
The 401K. When this came out how many people knew what to invest their money in? Hard working Americans who have full time jobs, families, when do they have time to do their homework on financial literacy? Those who praise this confusing investment plan don’t know what’s in their Growth Fund, their Value Fund or their Foreign Investment Fund. I asked my broker about this? Could never get an answer. Nice. But they love pulling that monthly fee from my account.