Make your own Simple Theremin

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  • Опубліковано 3 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 518

  • @Koshka42
    @Koshka42 3 роки тому +29

    Wow. Can't believe how much circuitry I've forgotten since I last had to build a circuit! 33 years ago this would have seemed so simple to me, now...

  • @TheRealThisIsAlex
    @TheRealThisIsAlex 7 років тому +298

    That sounds like I'm at the dentist's office.

  • @m_k_akash
    @m_k_akash 7 років тому +19

    I was searching for a easy circuit of theremin for my whole life finally I got it. thank you very much great scott. I am building the prototype now and its working perfectly

  • @luca.holanda
    @luca.holanda 7 років тому +245

    1:30 Will you teach us how to draw such realistic hands?

    • @greatscottlab
      @greatscottlab  7 років тому +101

      It is easy. Never listen during art class in school. That is at least how I draw them.

    • @cirithor
      @cirithor 7 років тому +19

      I actually prefer the one at 1:27
      This. is. art! :D

    • @havesomecoffeeand6085
      @havesomecoffeeand6085 4 роки тому +2

      As realistic are his hands, is realistic is theremin.

    • @tafsirnahian669
      @tafsirnahian669 3 роки тому +1

      @@greatscottlab LMAO

  • @zephalon
    @zephalon 7 років тому +87

    Those drawn hands alone are worth an upvote.

  • @steveoddlers9696
    @steveoddlers9696 7 років тому +4

    Theremins are fun. Years ago I built one after a schematic from the net that utilised a CD4069 hex inverter and a CD4046 phase-locked loop. I had no clue how, but actually worked, although somewhat unstable. The frequency always drifted higher and it became unusable after a couple of minutes.

  • @mennims
    @mennims 7 років тому +3

    These videos are what keep me from falling off the edge.

  • @lf2371
    @lf2371 7 років тому +12

    as a professional theremin player you just changed the way that i look to theremin not because of the complicated structure .no no no no. because of your professional playing :)

    • @Alan-pz9gf
      @Alan-pz9gf 2 роки тому +2

      Can you play I just wasn't made for these times? I just love how they made the theremin sound like a voice

  • @LuxBacelo
    @LuxBacelo 7 років тому +7

    You will get better sound if the output wave is a sine wave (with minimal noise) and you calibrate the max and min distance to 18khz to 50hz. In that way you can get a better sound response. Try it, really play theremin isn't hard. All you need is practice the distance.

  • @Sx107music
    @Sx107music 7 років тому +28

    I think that the problem is mainly with the schematics, not with your playing skills.
    Such circuits REALLY have to be well-shielded, elsewise they output too much noise. I think, that is the reason why your theremin sounds like squeaking.
    Second, how does the differential opamp even work in such configurations? Subtracting two frequencies never gives a frequency difference unless some distortion occur, is it connected in a comparator mode? If not, try increasing the amplification.
    I've made a project that was about hearing inaudible ultrasonic frequencies - basically, a frequency mixer of a heterodyne and a mic, which is very similar to this situation. During my experiments I've found that the cheapest and simplest, yet good-sounding solution is to use an analog switch like 4053 to switch between the first signal and the first signal inverted at a frequency equal to the second signal frequency. Maybe you should try this configuration and replace on of your oscillators with a real colpitts oscillator. I can give you the schematics for my ultrasonic sound project if you want to.

  • @Ghozer
    @Ghozer 7 років тому +203

    Doesn't sound anything like a theramin, you need an even sine wave for a theramin, tuned to a set frequency (such as A, 440Hz) - then when you move your hand, that frequency changes, creating the notes
    a square wave just sequeels...

    • @samiant5199
      @samiant5199 7 років тому +12

      "simple" was his main goal

    • @Eo_Tunun
      @Eo_Tunun 7 років тому +59

      Yes, but it was "Simple Theremin". Maybe he built something simple, but that is *not* a theremin. Sorry for farting in the bath, but that's a fail.

    • @Auriflamme
      @Auriflamme 7 років тому +17

      Exactly, this is a simple noise creator, not a simple Theremin.

    • @LuxBacelo
      @LuxBacelo 7 років тому +6

      Totally agree. As a "distance" detector maybe it work but isn't a theremin. Too much noise and high freq.

    • @StephenTack
      @StephenTack 7 років тому +5

      The LP filter needs set much lower, like 1-2KHz max to be musical, and subtract the unwanted harmonics of the square waves.

  • @mpilosov
    @mpilosov 7 років тому +6

    I'm a recent subscriber (some of your arduino videos helped me a ton), and just realized this is the same GreatScott as the one on the flier I have hung on my wall for your HackRF One. It's been a goal of mine to own one ever since seeing it at Denver Maker Faire last month. Thank you for being amazing!

  • @jemand771
    @jemand771 7 років тому +92

    so if you're interested in music, creating your own midi instrument/controller may be a project for another video

    • @greatscottlab
      @greatscottlab  7 років тому +15

      I put it on my to do list

    • @vladtomoiaga4721
      @vladtomoiaga4721 7 років тому

      +GreatScott! You could make a 3D printed piano keyboard, or make a capacitive touch keyboard =)

    • @deltaray3
      @deltaray3 7 років тому +1

      I made a capacitive touch midi controller a while back that I hook up to bananas, cucumbers and apples and a Roland synth. Its pretty popular at our local maker fest.

    • @mathieuclement8011
      @mathieuclement8011 7 років тому +1

      It's also fun to make those with conductive ink on a piece of paper :)

    • @vladtomoiaga4721
      @vladtomoiaga4721 7 років тому

      Mathieu Clement Or pencil marks

  • @boukhelkhalyoucef
    @boukhelkhalyoucef 7 років тому +1

    I graduated the last year so now I m electronic engineer, and I m in the same age as you but I m still learning from you and wait for your videos every week , keep going my friend (y)

    • @greatscottlab
      @greatscottlab  7 років тому

      Thanks for the feedback. I try my best.

  • @Chuffin_ell
    @Chuffin_ell 7 років тому +1

    The nicest hand drawn schematics and blueprints on UA-cam. But that drawing of a hand......

  • @confusionprice1422
    @confusionprice1422 2 місяці тому

    I’ve learned about making oscillators with inductors and capacitors, but never heard of a way to constantly provide it with power in a way to keep it going, thanks for the lesson

  • @edgeeffect
    @edgeeffect 7 років тому

    I'm glad to see that I'm not the only genius who plays the guitar in my style. ;)

  • @andrewoverheid3883
    @andrewoverheid3883 7 років тому +4

    Really loving this! Been looking around for small sized theremins in order to build one into my electric guitar, and this might do the trick!

  • @revimfadli4666
    @revimfadli4666 6 років тому +5

    What if you use the triangle-ish waves from the capacitors instead(they have lower harmonics), by subtracting them with an in-amp? Maybe it'll sound nicer since it's easier to filter the harmonics

  • @MrButternutsprinkles
    @MrButternutsprinkles 6 років тому

    *notices person is a fellow southpaw and spends the entire video in a fervor of happiness about this.*

  • @Apple.Repair
    @Apple.Repair 7 років тому

    I just realized you're left-handed like me, double thumbs up!!

  • @BruhM0ment_
    @BruhM0ment_ 7 років тому +182

    send it to rob scallion, he can make it sound good... right?

    • @josephnevin
      @josephnevin 7 років тому

      CJLOLZ I second that 😂😂😂

    • @amirs5512
      @amirs5512 7 років тому +1

      he can play anything, so......

    • @unqualifiedMacbeth
      @unqualifiedMacbeth 7 років тому +6

      I would go for andrew huang

    • @DylanSaliba
      @DylanSaliba 7 років тому

      I would check out Angelo Moore from the band fishbone

  • @gabibonza
    @gabibonza 3 роки тому

    Everything is so well written and drawn, damn

  • @seanivrymusic
    @seanivrymusic 2 роки тому

    it sounds too high. is there a change that would lower the pitch an octave or two. it sounds mostly abover 10khz... it might sound nicer in the 500hz to 8khz range... could a different component somewhere change that?

  • @Chris-ZL
    @Chris-ZL 7 років тому +4

    I think you might find it worth revisiting the XOR gate which will mix the frequencies, unlike the op-amp which is mixing the voltages.

    • @joergfoerster8043
      @joergfoerster8043 2 роки тому

      I agree. In therory you need an korrelation circuit between fixed and variable frequencies. XOR is an simple "digital" approximation to this. Linear adding voltages does this not. But if the amplitudes are to high and nonlinear effects occur, it seems to work.

    • @Chris-ZL
      @Chris-ZL 2 роки тому

      @@joergfoerster8043 someone probably told him he should use an SA602 Double-balanced mixer, but he substituted the OpAmp 🙂

    • @joergfoerster8043
      @joergfoerster8043 2 роки тому

      @@Chris-ZL Yes, in HF-technik an mixer is in my option an multiplier - in audio-technik a mixer is an adder. Or, shoud i say: Even in an audio-technik-mixer each input-signal is multiplied with their volume-control and then the signals are added.

  • @JD_Mortal
    @JD_Mortal 4 роки тому

    That would actually make a great mini proximity detector. Make an electronic controlled mouse-trap or a snack-snatching alarm. If anyone tries to grab a snack, it triggers a siren horn. Attach it to a door handle and you have an anti-tamper alarm detector. Put it in your wall, where the doorbell should be, and you have a 100% waterproof, touchless door chime. Add it to a robot and the robot can sense when you are about to grab it. Add three and the robot can detect you and run the other direction, where is doesn't sense you. :)

  • @chi221
    @chi221 7 років тому

    I love your handwriting.

  • @TheYouTubeCuber888
    @TheYouTubeCuber888 7 років тому +54

    7:49 Why not Hot glue?

    • @greatscottlab
      @greatscottlab  7 років тому +27

      I had to use two component adhesive for the antenna anyway. So I just used it for all the parts.

    • @greatscottlab
      @greatscottlab  7 років тому +27

      Because hot glue does not sick well to metal.

    • @videolabguy
      @videolabguy 7 років тому +27

      A tip for hot gluers. Use a heat gun to pre-warm all the surfaces. Then the hot glue is less prone to making spider webs and the glue will flow onto the surfaces. The reason it does not stick to metal easily is the rapid cooling caused by the cold metal.

    • @ozifromearth
      @ozifromearth 6 років тому

      What is that material to glue?

  • @tobywenman4769
    @tobywenman4769 7 років тому +1

    4:29 could you use the nand logic symbol there instead of the triangle so it doesn't look like an op amp or buffer?

  • @bestestinventions7032
    @bestestinventions7032 6 років тому

    i love your handwriting!

  • @Lory98
    @Lory98 7 років тому +7

    Nice!
    Just a question: why are you using NAND gates with an input pulled to HI instead of simple NOT? Wouldn't you get the same result?

    • @Lory98
      @Lory98 4 роки тому

      @@__MINT_ The easiest way would be to use a ring oscillator.

    • @Lory98
      @Lory98 4 роки тому

      @@__MINT_ You could, you just need an uneven number of gates.

  • @SnoozeTheRecluse
    @SnoozeTheRecluse 6 років тому +7

    What do I need to learn in order to know what he's talking about?

  • @dwaynewladyka577
    @dwaynewladyka577 7 років тому +18

    Like Jimmy Page. He played it in Led Zeppelin.

    • @ElGuayo
      @ElGuayo 6 років тому

      Dwayne Wladyka Page fucking sucked playing the theremin

  •  7 років тому +221

    Just idea, plug output into ATmega32u4 a make cool MIDI instrument

    • @greatscottlab
      @greatscottlab  7 років тому +85

      Never worked with MIDI before. Might have to do a little research.

    • @dronemansk2121
      @dronemansk2121 7 років тому +4

      CZ/SK?

    • @romanemul1
      @romanemul1 7 років тому +4

      greatscott asi nemec

    • @dronemansk2121
      @dronemansk2121 7 років тому +2

      ja nemyslím greatscotta ale teba xD

    • @LuxBacelo
      @LuxBacelo 7 років тому +5

      Or just use an Arduino with Atmega16u2 built-in and flash de LUFA midi firmware. Cheap and simple.

  • @anonym7500
    @anonym7500 7 років тому +22

    Wait a minute, Great Scott! is promoting the simple schematic???

  • @PreludeSon
    @PreludeSon 7 років тому

    Very good tutorial.....I won't need a mixer, just going to feed it directly to the power amp and play some music for my dog.

  • @sanchohacker
    @sanchohacker 7 років тому

    As an electrical engineering: This is fascinating, remarkable and inspiring.
    As a musician: This is an excellent instrument for annoying people!!!!
    I believe you got this idea from Sheldon Cooper right?

    • @greatscottlab
      @greatscottlab  7 років тому

      Well, he can definitely play it better than me.

  • @joaovitorlacerda4124
    @joaovitorlacerda4124 4 роки тому

    Wow, perfect😍😍 brasilian here

  • @annemariemiguel2541
    @annemariemiguel2541 7 років тому +8

    Hi greats Scott could you make a synthesizer using some oscillater like the 556? That would be awesome!

    • @greatscottlab
      @greatscottlab  7 років тому +6

      It is on my to do list

    • @annemariemiguel2541
      @annemariemiguel2541 7 років тому +1

      GreatScott! Or you could make a quad oscillater circuit using the 4093

    • @KeeganCrankshaw
      @KeeganCrankshaw 7 років тому +1

      There's a great 3 part UA-cam tutorial on how to do a full on synth starting here
      ua-cam.com/video/FaoJaLmZaL4/v-deo.html
      I didn't make these videos I just think it's a great tutorial

    • @EricHallahan
      @EricHallahan 7 років тому +1

      GreatScott! Atari Punk Console? So classic.

  • @xDR1TeK
    @xDR1TeK 7 років тому

    In my amazement that they built a Low Frequency mixer in the circuit, so i went in the theremin site and found out what it was, just a capacitor. Obviously, for a crude experiment no one wanted to design a mixer with high specs.

  • @Junior-rz7ol
    @Junior-rz7ol 7 років тому

    I don't get why this guy haven't reach 1m

  • @rarbiart
    @rarbiart 6 років тому +1

    this is more "how not to build a theremin".
    I understand the concept of "keeping it simple". But if the functionally is reduced to beeing totally useless, then it's simply futile to spend any components (or time) on it. Apart from the soldering practise.

  • @shleed
    @shleed 7 років тому +3

    3 minutes ago, but 32 comments! Wow! Great job!

  • @exploitzero
    @exploitzero 7 років тому

    really nice work man!

  • @rodstartube
    @rodstartube 7 років тому

    OMG those hands symbol made my day !!

  • @derchesten
    @derchesten 7 років тому +4

    I LOVE THE HANDS YOU DREW! MAKE A DRAWING FULL OF HANDS

  • @thewiredmaniac3889
    @thewiredmaniac3889 7 років тому

    Can you please try and build an FM transmitter and an FM reciever for your DIY or Buy series?

  • @harryball3093
    @harryball3093 7 років тому +1

    This is a very nice circuit tutorial, but the net result makes this theremin hardly worth the trouble. If you want to make a simple pitch theremin using CMOS ICs, then I suggest the "101 Minimum Theremin" or the "102 Minimum Theremin," which you can Google.

  • @alexanderoneill6160
    @alexanderoneill6160 7 років тому +3

    Why did you use ex nor gate for the oscillator when you have one input connected to vcc you could have just used a not gate.

  • @howardjones543
    @howardjones543 7 років тому +1

    It's been a long time since high-school physics, but couldn't you take the final audible square wave and make a sine wave from it, with an RC circuit? Maybe be a bit more musical... (yes, I will be trying this myself)

  • @PL-pn9iu
    @PL-pn9iu 6 років тому +1

    What about electric kalimba with set frequencies for each note? using the same principals as the theremin.

  • @tctrainconstruct2592
    @tctrainconstruct2592 5 років тому

    2:07 Your diagram is wrong, because the frequency remains constant while the oscillation dies off.

  • @vidusenanayake5605
    @vidusenanayake5605 7 років тому +3

    can you make something like a led suit like a costume using led strips

  • @MCsCreations
    @MCsCreations 7 років тому

    Wow, that's really nice! :D Fantastic work, man!

  • @spacemini24
    @spacemini24 7 років тому +1

    The best would be to do 2 levels for this kind of projects, an easy circuit and a more advance one, but it will take a lot longer to make.
    Btw nice video, as always

    • @greatscottlab
      @greatscottlab  7 років тому +2

      +Frost Might be a good idea. I put a more complicated, better sounding theremin on my to do list.

  • @antonfelix1
    @antonfelix1 7 років тому

    At 6:09 the truth table is for an XNOR gate not a NOR gate.

  • @albericlajarte6849
    @albericlajarte6849 7 років тому

    you could easily get a better timbre for your theremin by lowering the cutoff frequency to get rid of those high harmonics created by the square wave. Maybe put a variable resistor instead of a simple resistor in your low pass filter ?

  • @tyronenelson9124
    @tyronenelson9124 7 років тому +1

    Do you know exactly what a attenuator is? because ive heard so many different versions and uses abd its getting abit confusing to me

  • @johnfaraway4666
    @johnfaraway4666 7 років тому

    You know the ZOOM H1 also has an input audio port? This way you can directly record the audio signal. Afterwards you can always amplify the recording with Audacity.

  • @yashdhandale
    @yashdhandale 7 років тому

    I was waiting for it

  • @testohtoby
    @testohtoby 7 років тому

    That's exactly what I was looking for. A bit complicated though but still awesome

  • @vk2zay
    @vk2zay 7 років тому

    XOR would be a better choice for the mixer, you need to multiply the signals to get heterodyne products, not just subtract them. Unfortunately you can't throw out too much complexity from the Theremin and keep it sounding like an instrument; square waves sound very harsh because of all the harmonics. The lack of a volume control is less important, but makes it much less useful musically. Narrowing the pass-band on the post mixer filter would help make it sound better, but the timbre will change a great deal over its range.

    • @joergfoerster8043
      @joergfoerster8043 2 роки тому

      I agree. In therory you need an korrelation circuit between fixed and variable frequencies. XOR is an simple "digital" approximation to this. Linear adding voltages does this not. But if the amplitudes are to high and nonlinear effects occur, it seems to work.

  • @dryrotdryrot9908
    @dryrotdryrot9908 3 місяці тому

    If I wanted to build a Theremin with a 10 foot pitch antenna, what changes would I need to make?

  • @YeHlWeE
    @YeHlWeE 7 років тому +3

    Could you make a RF audio transmitter

  • @HabibullahNahid
    @HabibullahNahid 7 років тому

    Great video indeed. Can you make a video of FM transmitter with very detail explanation with BJTs?

  • @jonathannagel7427
    @jonathannagel7427 4 роки тому

    Using a Stabilo pen right now, I have trust in you!

  • @leozendo3500
    @leozendo3500 7 років тому

    Great video! Using Schmitt trigger as an oscillator is much better than the ne555 circuit and should be the future of hobbyist electronics. s4:30 One outputs. Yeah! I 've even got a gramma warning here.

  • @vedantkanawade4364
    @vedantkanawade4364 7 років тому +1

    Awesome video as always😉

  • @bfilldelrei
    @bfilldelrei 7 років тому

    Could you do a buy or diy about High Power RGB LEDs ? It could be interesting!

  • @CriusDigital
    @CriusDigital 7 місяців тому

    Great Scott! You maybe could add an lm386 amp to increase the output volume! 📡🎶

  • @tunahankaratay1523
    @tunahankaratay1523 5 років тому +3

    6:13 This truth table showcases an XNOR IC. The real NOR IC would have a 0 output with both inputs 1.

  • @ninodiscox
    @ninodiscox 6 років тому

    For this setup, could I use a battery instead of a power supply??? I think you are using 5V, what would happen if I put a battery with less voltage or a battery with a higher voltage??? Would still work? Please help

  • @JoJoModding
    @JoJoModding 7 років тому

    Isn't that 4077 "NOR" ( 6:08 ) IC an XNOR IC?

  • @mathieuclement8011
    @mathieuclement8011 7 років тому

    how does it sound with a much lower tone (e.g. 200-1000 Hz)?
    How difficult would it be to replace the pitch potentiometer with another antenna as found on a regular theremin?

  • @Yens.1337
    @Yens.1337 7 років тому

    Hello GreatScott can you make a video to explain why we can’t use capacitor as batteries? Or if we can how to archive this ? Thanks for considering

  • @lvb1b463
    @lvb1b463 7 років тому +31

    never clicked so fast in my life

    • @blackturbine
      @blackturbine 7 років тому

      do u also play N-game that is how i got quick reflex

    • @lvb1b463
      @lvb1b463 7 років тому

      Black turbine nope

  • @arafatal-gharabi7066
    @arafatal-gharabi7066 7 років тому

    Good work man
    Keep going 😘😙😙

  • @sciencedogsandallkindsofcr9104
    @sciencedogsandallkindsofcr9104 3 роки тому +2

    it's not a Moog theremin but it will do

  • @simonlinser8286
    @simonlinser8286 Рік тому +2

    build in an hour, that means it'll only take me 1 or 2 weeks!

  • @thekookaburr4
    @thekookaburr4 7 років тому

    Is there a simple circuit for making oscillation. just like those found in toy fish? thanks

  • @syedsardarali2652
    @syedsardarali2652 7 років тому

    great scoot please will u make a video on how to make a 50 watt amplifier

  • @scienceteam9254
    @scienceteam9254 7 років тому +6

    "Not complicated enough yet?"
    me: pls. stop

  • @clarkllarena
    @clarkllarena 7 років тому +4

    send this to andew huang. please, Im sure he'll make an awesome music out of this

    •  3 роки тому

      lol, true, the only problem is that shipping this to space is probably going to be kinda expensive

  • @SkyTechElectronics
    @SkyTechElectronics 7 років тому

    This is cool and all but I'm worried people are going to look up Theremin and find this and assume they all sound annoying.
    Any chance we could get a more.... realistic Theremin build?

  • @gotmilk91
    @gotmilk91 7 років тому

    It's missing lower frequencies - should have the tone and range of that theremin sound as you'd hear on the Beach Boys "Good Vibrations" recording

  • @brian_hood
    @brian_hood 2 роки тому

    Is it possible to have two antennas perpendicular to each other tracking x and y position of one hand?

  • @Xyz-77
    @Xyz-77 7 років тому

    You should make a video about a 555 timer flyback converter or about wifi or bluetooth jammer.

  • @Socks3657
    @Socks3657 7 років тому

    How can I smooth out a square signal to get a smooth sound, also, how can I lower the tone so It ca be a bass theremin???

  • @syndora1516
    @syndora1516 7 років тому

    Tolle Idee, aber so etwas könnte ich niemals umsetzen 😂👌👍

  • @emmanueljaramillo1967
    @emmanueljaramillo1967 6 років тому

    Hi, I need to replace the MCP602 with other Amplifier. I have a LM324 and LM358.

  • @sokauo
    @sokauo 7 років тому

    what i would make is a vco with an external theremin circuit which produces a dc voltage proportional to the distance of your hand so you can modulate the vco.

  • @keithnikolaevich7530
    @keithnikolaevich7530 7 років тому

    I have commented on your videos before asking about this, i want to make a vintage sounding 30 watt guitar tube amp with a clean and dirty channel, ive seen people make videos before where they assemble the pre amp and the power amp but they dont go into detail like you do, they just give you the schematic and schematics with vacuum tubes are too hard for me to understand, can you make a video on it?

  • @WildfoxFabrication
    @WildfoxFabrication 7 років тому +1

    go check out Keystone Science's version of this. I'm sure you can find the improvements you are looking for.

  • @ekaansh
    @ekaansh 7 років тому

    Is there a simple way to change the square wave to a sine wave without the LC Tank circuit? I'm guessing that'll make the sound much nicer.

  • @Markus__B
    @Markus__B 7 років тому

    Useless Fact:
    The Main Theme of "Midsomer Murders" ("Inspector Barnaby" for the German Audience) is played on a Theremin.

  • @tctrainconstruct2592
    @tctrainconstruct2592 5 років тому +1

    I would use a Frequency Divider and a lower capacitance (

  • @AndersJackson
    @AndersJackson 7 років тому

    A Thermin also adjust the volume with an antenna. So one for the pitch and one for the volume. And as might be good to have a separate LP filter which can be tuned.
    Don't bother with a midi convertion. It would be like trying to make a midi interface to a violin or bandless base guitar. A Thermin like a violin doesn't have fixed band and notes.
    Interesting projekt, with potentials. :-)

  • @egoist4902
    @egoist4902 7 років тому

    In one of your videos you showed how to make. A light screen from Laptop screen so can you tell us how to make a portable display without using any other display driver and making driver from laptop

  • @klab3929
    @klab3929 7 років тому

    Hey scott! I was wondering what electronic component shelf you were using to store you'r small components in.

  • @merdogan-ee-engineer
    @merdogan-ee-engineer 7 років тому

    I wonder if you can make a video to build a cnc plotter using old dvd writers. Can you?