Miele Steam Oven: Hands-On Cooking Demo

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  • Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
  • If you're in the market for a Miele steam oven but intimidated by tech talk, this video is just for you. We explored cooking possibilities with a hands-on demo at Miele's Princeton Experience Center. We brought to you everything from breakfast to dessert and more! Needless to say, we were impressed with the results when it came to menu cooking, their Master Chef program and sous vide drawer. Special thanks to Miele's Culinary Events Manager Mary Moulds for spending the day with us and showing us the tons of cooking possibilities with their steam oven!
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 131

  • @DesignerAppliances
    @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому

    Check out more steam oven options on our blog: www.designerappliances.com/blog/best-steam-ovens-miele-vs-wolf/

  • @deldridg
    @deldridg 2 роки тому +8

    My young kids and I cooked our very first meal this evening in our new 7860 XXL. We had pork medallions, basmati rice and broccoli/peas using the automatic Menu Cooking function. 3 minutes to prepare the ingredients, 2 mins for the kids to program the oven and around 25 minutes later (while they had a shower and I did some work) we were enjoying an extremely flavoursome and very fresh tasting meal (3 minute clean-up). Even mum was impressed, esp. as I'm not much of a cook! This is going to be a serious game changer for our over-busy lives! Thank you Miele and cheers from Sydney, Aust - Dave

  • @scottkemper2
    @scottkemper2 6 місяців тому +3

    I'm hunting for exact recipes and instructions. I have read thru around 180 pages of the manual for the oven we're about to install. Nowhere there is an exact recipe with buttons to push. A few of this video at least starts with turning on the oven. When I bought Dacor decades ago, they had classes we could attend. This would be a great help!

  • @4teacup
    @4teacup Рік тому +7

    I also bought a Miele combi steam oven. I have played with it but haven’t really worked out exactly how to get the best use out of it. Every time I use it I’m not sure which option is best. A small recipe book with the manual would have been helpful.

  • @tonyharvey9916
    @tonyharvey9916 4 роки тому +4

    One of the best Miele demo's I've seen.

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому

      Thank you, we hope it was helpful! Please subscribe to our channel for more videos like this :-)

  • @Dr_No
    @Dr_No 2 роки тому +9

    (1) coat ribs with marinade (2) steam ribs at 212F for 2 hours (3) transfer to universal tray & add 2nd coat of marinade (4) roast at 30min at 425F convection bake. Result, "Perfect Rack of Ribs"

  • @miketinling5603
    @miketinling5603 3 роки тому

    That steam oven is amazing. Kitchens and cooking have come a long way.

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  3 роки тому

      Thanks for watching! If you want to see more videos like this, please subscribe to our channel: ua-cam.com/channels/zfftWpll7ciXW62loeS5hQ.html

  • @janethowell5826
    @janethowell5826 4 роки тому +11

    Love my Steam Oven always in use, best thing I ever purchased

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому

      Glad to hear it Janet! We'd love to see what you're cooking and share recipes, join us on Instagram and Facebook! #DAinspired

    • @omarkhokhar5308
      @omarkhokhar5308 3 роки тому

      Do you roast meat? If so no easy to clean the inside of the oven?

    • @datsuntoyy
      @datsuntoyy 3 роки тому

      How has the oven held up?

  • @martinjallinder5081
    @martinjallinder5081 3 роки тому +1

    Great video! What is the max cook time om the Miele combi steam oven with water supply and drain? Can you cook far longer on steam without interruption on that model?

  • @OverdriveMusic
    @OverdriveMusic 4 роки тому

    great video!!!!!!

  • @linkharding
    @linkharding 4 роки тому

    Thanks for the video. Really helpful

  • @Gabeborder84
    @Gabeborder84 4 роки тому +3

    Great video. I just got the 30" induction range. Does it have some of the same steam features?

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому

      Hi Gabe, that's awesome! The induction range features 'Moisture Plus' which introduces a burst of steam to enhance roasts and breads, however it is not a full fledged steam oven and doesn't actually cook via steam.

  • @VolantesAdHollander
    @VolantesAdHollander 3 роки тому +9

    Steam oven is next level cooking. I got one from another brand it's totally worth the extra cost!

    • @sp4292
      @sp4292 9 місяців тому

      Care to share which one you got?

  • @BarrickmanDesign
    @BarrickmanDesign 4 роки тому +1

    This is an awesome video, thanks! Is it possible to buy/have an induction range built with a steam oven?

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  3 роки тому

      Thanks amybarrickman! You can get a Miele induction range but it only has steam assist, it's not a true steam oven. If you had your heart set on a full functioning steam oven we recommend getting a cooktop or a rangetop and opt for a built-in steam oven. Hope that helps!

  • @elizabethblackwell6242
    @elizabethblackwell6242 4 роки тому +2

    I cook faultless risotto in my steam oven. No one knows and I haven't developed wrist seizure from all the gentle stirring risotto demands. Some fantastic tips here. Thanks so much.

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому

      Wow, risotto! That is great to hear, thanks for sharing!

    • @datsuntoyy
      @datsuntoyy 3 роки тому +1

      I try not to blame things on my food so everything I cook is faultless. Except for Tri Tip, that I blame everything on.

    • @elizabethblackwell6242
      @elizabethblackwell6242 3 роки тому +1

      @@datsuntoyy TriTip: Nothing ut trouble!

    • @civon9287
      @civon9287 25 днів тому

      @@DesignerApplianceshow do you cook risotto ?

  • @luke9822
    @luke9822 3 роки тому +5

    4:00 How was she able to put the salmon above the broccoli, and no drip tray under the fish? I've prepared this meal, And it always says use a perforated pan for the fish with a drip tray underneath it. It says use a non-perforated pan for the broccoli, which means that broccoli tray would fill up with all of the water and juices coming from the fish.

  • @viviancastellano1061
    @viviancastellano1061 3 роки тому

    I would like to know which model combi steam oven Mary Moulds used in this video

  • @step4560
    @step4560 2 роки тому +1

    I know that steam ovens are used in certain bread/rolls/buns etc. baking operations to get a fantastic result. I'm surprised that you didn't include or at lest show an example of this... Cool vid nontheless, that Vuccuum drawer though! I need one...

  • @pattyho8476
    @pattyho8476 2 роки тому

    HI, How many minutes does a DGC7640 (24") take to preheat to 100C (220F) from start?

  • @feffarox247
    @feffarox247 2 роки тому

    I have a nickel allergy so I can't cook with stainless unless it is lined with parchment. Do they offer ceramic pans, particularly the perforated pan?

  • @kierscotons5427
    @kierscotons5427 4 роки тому +1

    can you compare the thermador versus the miele steam oven please? Love your videos.

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому +3

      Thanks for watching and great question! Both Thermador and Miele make great steam ovens however Miele integrates more technology with their guided cooking modes. The menu driven cooking feature we showcased in the video is one such example. Since steam cooking is a new concept for most people we think the added technology is a huge plus and makes the Miele far easier to get good results out of. Also Miele's combi-steam oven has auto programs that intelligently combine steam and convection for better end results. Hope that helps

  • @jimmypchacko
    @jimmypchacko 3 роки тому +1

    Fantastic demo we are remodeling our kitchen in the fall and I'm strongly considering adding a steam oven instead of a microwave. The only negative I can think of is reheating a cup of coffee

    • @luke9822
      @luke9822 3 роки тому +1

      I can tell you I was in the same boat and chose the steam oven, and it is my favorite decision I made of the entire whole house remodel. I can't believe how versatile this steam oven is. We have been moved back in for 3 months and I haven't even used the regular oven but one time, and I only did it because I feel weird about using the combi steam oven all of the time with this other large oven sitting there unused.
      I would just get a thermal insulated coffee mug so your coffee stays warm long enough. And we both know reheating that coffee is rarely satisfying because of how acrid it gets over time.

    • @fashionvibe101
      @fashionvibe101 2 роки тому

      also no microwavable popcorn :(

    • @jimmypchacko
      @jimmypchacko 2 роки тому +1

      @@fashionvibe101 I use an air popper so I'm all good there!

    • @vanselmi6587
      @vanselmi6587 Рік тому +1

      Throw that cold coffee out and make another fresh!

  • @michaelladyzhensky6703
    @michaelladyzhensky6703 2 роки тому

    Can I use it instead of microwave? Thank you

  • @mhk5272
    @mhk5272 2 роки тому

    where is the steam coming from, does it need extra piping work for water connection

  • @quixotique
    @quixotique 2 роки тому +1

    How does the steam oven work? Is plumbing required to provide water to a steam oven?

  • @daveireland9169
    @daveireland9169 4 роки тому +4

    I just bought a new Miele Combi oven for my new house. We have not moved in yet so I have not had a chance to use it but I do like to cook Sous Vide . Your video did not really show the process of how to sous vide, just the wonderful result. Do you just put the vacuum bag on a rack or submerge it in a container with water?

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому +1

      Hi Dave - congrats on your new home! Yes we just vacuum sealed the bag and placed on the oven rack. There is a preset for sous vide you can select. No need to submerge in water, etc. The oven does all the work for you.

    • @omarkhokhar5308
      @omarkhokhar5308 3 роки тому

      How easy is the oven to clean particularly after roasting and do you have to use a oven cleaner?

  • @michaelacquesta3742
    @michaelacquesta3742 2 роки тому

    How does one preheat a Miele combi steam oven?

  • @LilBear652
    @LilBear652 3 роки тому

    Hi, I would like to bake a panettone bread and butter pudding. How would I do this to get a banmarrie effect and a crispy top? Thanks

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  3 роки тому

      Great question! If it's not too much trouble, can you share these recipes so we can give you the correct guidance? We'd need to see suggested cooking times and temperatures to get the results you want in the steam oven. Thank you!

  • @hxvideo
    @hxvideo Рік тому

    It’s a dream, thanks!

  • @Datamining101
    @Datamining101 Рік тому

    Any idea what the inside dimensions of the 24" version of this is?

  • @marthagoss1050
    @marthagoss1050 4 роки тому +1

    Do you have instructions for roasting a whole chicken in the Combi-Steam? Do I need to use the roast probe? Thanks.

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому

      Hi Martha Gross - we recommend using convection bake at 375 degrees and set the probe to 165 degrees. This will give the chicken a nice crispy skin! You don't have to use the probe for a roasted chicken, but it's the best way to cook any large cuts of meat (even tenderloin, prime rib, turkey, pork loin, etc.) without worrying about doneness. Hope that helps!

    • @omarkhokhar5308
      @omarkhokhar5308 3 роки тому

      How easy to clean?

  • @omarkhokhar5308
    @omarkhokhar5308 3 роки тому

    How easy to clean the inside?

  • @barbarajanney7611
    @barbarajanney7611 4 роки тому

    I want to cook hard boiled eggs in my Combi steam. I do not have an egg setting in master chest. What do I do? Thank you

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому

      Hi Barbara Janney, can you confirm which Combi steam oven you have and when you got it? It may only be available in the newer updated models.

  • @annaemilaire9587
    @annaemilaire9587 3 роки тому +1

    I need one

  • @1westhickey
    @1westhickey 3 місяці тому

    Do the pans for menu cooking come with the oven? What about traditional racks?

  • @heidemeredith120
    @heidemeredith120 3 роки тому

    i have a Miele steam oven but it does not have a sous vide option. is it possible to still cook with this method in my steam oven? I am thinking of buying the vacuum drawer if it would help get round part of the problem

    • @kensnyder4200
      @kensnyder4200 2 роки тому

      Yes you can just use steam cooking mode and set the temperature to whatever the sous-vide recipe calls for and the time it calls for. The vacuum drawer is very cool but very expensive. You can use a zip-top bag or look at some of the counter top vacuum sealers as well (I have a Food Saver model)

  • @user-hb5rr1tp4o
    @user-hb5rr1tp4o Рік тому

    Hello, can anyone advise me. The steamer completely stopped working, that is, the desired heating temperature does not turn on, I tried everything according to the instructions, but it still does not raise the heating temperature. What could be the reason?
    If there are contacts of the manufacturer, please help to contact them, I will be very grateful for your assistance!

  • @DH-hz6de
    @DH-hz6de 3 роки тому

    Does one have to add water manually to a drawer or is it plumbed?

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  3 роки тому +1

      The Miele steam oven is available plumbed or with water tank. The plumbed version is our best seller because it's always ready to use and takes one more thing off your to-do list.

  • @YoungevitySanLuisObi
    @YoungevitySanLuisObi 3 роки тому

    I'm totally off grid, I ordered the oven. 30 amps is my entire solar system. Hope it works at my place. Will it? PS. I also need lights. :)

    • @deldridg
      @deldridg 2 роки тому

      We have the 7860 XXL and it draws 3500W, which in Australia at 240V is just under 15A. Depends on your voltage. At 120V, that will be closer to 30A.

  • @conniemc1710
    @conniemc1710 4 роки тому +2

    I have this oven, and I am interested in the Sous Vide function as I haven't used it yet. Could you please tell me what temperature and for how long you sous vide the steak?

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому +2

      Hi Connie McKibbon! Great question, we asked Chef Mary and she suggested 2 hours at 130 degrees. Once the vacuum seal bag comes out of the oven, you throw the filet in a pan for about 60 - 90 seconds on each side to get the perfect sear and lock in the juices. This will give an amazing result! Her tip for seasoning in the vacuum sealed bag: Soy Sauce, Garlic Powder and Black Pepper. Hope that helps!

    • @omarkhokhar5308
      @omarkhokhar5308 3 роки тому

      If you roast meat, how easy to clean inside the oven?

  • @GingerBearFtl
    @GingerBearFtl 4 роки тому +2

    Can you make dulce de leche in the steam oven instead of on the cooktop?

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому +2

      Hi Nick Sparandeo - You can absolutely do Dulce de Leche in the Combi Stream Oven. Anything that can be prepared at low temperatures or in a water bath is perfectly suited for this oven….custards, cheesecake, pudding and dulce de leche as well.

    • @billogori9362
      @billogori9362 4 роки тому

      Awesome

  • @asizzle10
    @asizzle10 2 роки тому

    Do I wait till preheating is done? It looks like the videos they put the food in first. But preheating takes like 15 minutes on mine.

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  2 роки тому

      For steam, you can put your food in at any time, before or after preheating.

  • @user-mz8gc8ps2p
    @user-mz8gc8ps2p 8 місяців тому

    If your oven is plumbed and you don’t use it for a long time, isn’t the water that has been sitting in the pipes possibly contaminated. Can one bring fresh water in?

  • @ferdose1
    @ferdose1 5 місяців тому

    Please send me a video how to warm up food and boil a cup of water reheat my coffee thx

  • @cszulu2000
    @cszulu2000 Рік тому

    Can you do a video with Miele steam oven used as an air fryer?

  • @mattgertz4419
    @mattgertz4419 4 роки тому +2

    Steaming rice in my combi steam has not been successful. Sticky and feeling like we need to rinse it before serving. How can I improve my white rice cooking?

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому +1

      Hi Matt Gertz! How have you been cooking your rice? Normally the steam oven makes great rice and it tends to be a little sticky but not enough that it needs to be rinsed. We asked Chef Mary and her rule of thumb is to use a one to one ratio of liquid to rice (also try using broth instead of water) and steam the rice for about 25 minutes. Some people get away with 15 minutes if they use a higher liquid content but 1:1 and 25 minutes usually works perfectly. Brown rice would be a 2:1 liquid to rice ratio and cook for about 45 minutes. Let us know if that helps any!

    • @MaZEEZaM
      @MaZEEZaM 3 роки тому

      @@DesignerAppliances And to make sure you rinse the rice before cooking it to remove excess starch which will cause it to become gluggy but generally I would suggest using a standard rice cooker which tend to do the best job or even just cook it with the right amount of liquid in the microwave. As long as you wash the rice first it works well, assuming you get the ratio of water to rice and the cooking time right, 15 minutes for basmati rice.

    • @omarkhokhar5308
      @omarkhokhar5308 3 роки тому

      Is yours a Miele steam combination? If so how how easy to clean ?

    • @yuyo1947
      @yuyo1947 3 роки тому

      @@omarkhokhar5308 very easy, it can clean itself. (While buying the oven, make sure it has this option)

  • @sreekrishna3741
    @sreekrishna3741 3 місяці тому

    Hello,
    I am Sree Krishna from India. The Miele steam oven is very interesting and the usage of the stove is reduced.

  • @looseylunchesnyc6163
    @looseylunchesnyc6163 3 роки тому +2

    What about bread ?

  • @cynthialudgin1867
    @cynthialudgin1867 3 роки тому

    How can I learn to adapt my recipes to my Miele Steam Oven?

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  3 роки тому

      Good question! It takes a bit of trial and error, but the main tips we have are leaving the food uncovered so the steam can penetrate the food. This makes for faster cooking times so reduce your total cooking time by 1/4. For example, if it takes you an hour to make a small turkey, try 45 minutes instead. This may be a good time to use your temperature probe to monitor the internal doneness and see if these adjustments work for you. Hope that helps!

  • @nutsandbolts432
    @nutsandbolts432 9 місяців тому

    Can it air fry?

  • @bethharris9005
    @bethharris9005 3 роки тому +1

    What is the model # of the steam oven featured in this video please?

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  3 роки тому

      The model number is dgc68001x. Here's a direct link for more info about this model: www.designerappliances.com/miele-dgc68001xl.html

    • @MaZEEZaM
      @MaZEEZaM 3 роки тому

      That was my question too, I thought I would check the comments first before writing my own potentially repeat question :)

  • @sumthings1372
    @sumthings1372 4 роки тому +2

    if I cook three dishes, everytime I put in a dish the temp drops and take few mins back to 212F, these minutes doesn’t count toward the cooking time. Perhaps I cook salmon, it can easily over cooked. How do I avoid?

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому

      The temperature drop you are referring to is completely normal in Menu Cooking. It is just like opening a regular oven door… you always lose some heat before the oven gets back up to temperature. There is no way to avoid this but we reached out to Mary, Miele's in-house Chef and she tells clients to add approximately 5-10 minutes onto the total cooking time to give some wiggle room for opening and closing door. Hope that helps!

  • @f.o.4537
    @f.o.4537 2 роки тому +1

    What's the difference between just having water in a saucepan in the oven and put it to 100 °C and having a steam oven?

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  2 роки тому

      Mainly the convenience but if you're looking for best results when cooking with steam, Miele has pre-programmed recipe settings.

  • @sashas3362
    @sashas3362 4 роки тому

    Can the steam burn you when opening the oven?

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому

      Good question, the short answer is no but we recommend the same precaution as when you'd open a regular oven - keep your face at a safe distance when opening.

    • @sashas3362
      @sashas3362 4 роки тому

      @@DesignerAppliances Thanks!

  • @kerrilove4617
    @kerrilove4617 Рік тому

    Can you steam tamales in the this steam oven?

  • @teresafriedman4712
    @teresafriedman4712 4 роки тому +1

    WHEN STEAM COOKING, DO I NEED TO COVER THE FOOD TO KEEP WATER FROM DRIPPING ON THE FOOD

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому +1

      Great question - no you do not need to cover the food. Also, if you are using a Miele steam oven it will tell you about the ideal rack position, choice of a rack, and other requirements to take the guesswork out.

  • @Charles-gw2tv
    @Charles-gw2tv 3 роки тому

    Can I cook like Mussels on convection mode?

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  3 роки тому

      Good question! You can cook mussels in convection bake mode if a recipe calls for that but we recommend the pure steam cooking mode to cook things like mussels, shrimp, and other seafood. In steam, the shells will open up slowly and once they have, the mussels will be perfectly cooked! Hope that helps.

  • @KevinKochatt
    @KevinKochatt 3 роки тому

    I have a midterm soon what am I doing

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  3 роки тому +1

      Good luck on your midterm and thanks for watching! If you want to see more videos like this, please subscribe to our channel: ua-cam.com/channels/zfftWpll7ciXW62loeS5hQ.html

    • @KevinKochatt
      @KevinKochatt 3 роки тому

      @@DesignerAppliances thank you! 😭

  • @tatespecson5574
    @tatespecson5574 4 роки тому +1

    Can I bake sourdough bread using combi steam oven

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому

      Hi Tates Pecson, yes you can. We recommend using the 'Farmhouse Bread' program under Masterchef since it is a rustic loaf and the closest consistency to a sourdough. Let us know how it comes out! Share your pictures with us on social media @designerappliances!

  • @teresafriedman4712
    @teresafriedman4712 4 роки тому +1

    HOW CAN I DEFROST A FROZEN WHOLE CHICKEN WITHOUT COOKING ANY OF THE MEAT

    • @DesignerAppliances
      @DesignerAppliances  4 роки тому +1

      Excellent question. The steam oven offers the safest way to defrost and "not cook" all meat types. As an example, microwaves tend to cook outer edges in defrost settings. Not the case with the steam oven. In the Miele steam oven just select the Defrost Mode which is under Special Modes. Hope this helps. Stay safe!!

  • @moelo5930
    @moelo5930 2 роки тому

    Can you cook a turkey?

  • @jabig1
    @jabig1 3 роки тому

    Does this video count when you watched it while hungry??

  • @sufrihadi
    @sufrihadi 2 роки тому

    the searing seems like a problem.... it doesnt look seared

  • @patrickhollister7068
    @patrickhollister7068 3 роки тому

    further , the sliding tray function move ability is WAY to heavy and awkward

  • @dinooo1788
    @dinooo1788 2 роки тому

    Not one ounce of seasoning on those ribs😔

  • @SA_81
    @SA_81 2 роки тому

    @نجلاء القمر

  • @joefabbri6453
    @joefabbri6453 9 місяців тому

    This oven is great but needs practice like everything else - too bad there is no cookbook or apps like Anova does

  • @patrickhollister7068
    @patrickhollister7068 3 роки тому

    I am an owner of a Combi oven. It does NOT accommodate standard size oven baking sheets and pans. THis is a HUGE negative to me.

    • @omarkhokhar5308
      @omarkhokhar5308 3 роки тому

      How easy to clean the oven after roasting meat?

    • @Notturnoir
      @Notturnoir 9 місяців тому

      What size? 1/2 sheet? Smaller? Or only the trays it comes with?

  • @footsmakenzyhellothr
    @footsmakenzyhellothr 2 роки тому

    Edit

  • @NilsPatel
    @NilsPatel Рік тому

    I feel sorry for all the animals that were harmed! RIP!

  • @datsuntoyy
    @datsuntoyy 3 роки тому

    When I smoke my ribs I always put a pan of water in the Big Green Egg and it knocks a couple of hours off the cook time. I steam a lot of veggies in the pan method so this cooking method makes sense. Now the real issue, how reliable is the oven. Some of the reviews I've deen don't give Miele such a good rating.

  • @CW-wy2sk
    @CW-wy2sk 2 роки тому +1

    I loved my miele steam oven until it stopped working less than 2 years old. It cost me 490 to fix the fan. The company did nothing to stand behind it.

  • @afandou1966
    @afandou1966 2 роки тому

    3:13 "Restaurant quality". 99% of restaurant food is way below what one cooks at home, in ingredient quality, safety, hygiene etc.

  • @_-_-_-_9407
    @_-_-_-_9407 4 роки тому

    It’s mee-leh not mee-lah

  • @svideos5754
    @svideos5754 2 роки тому

    She did not wash that rice

  • @mielewasher218
    @mielewasher218 2 роки тому +1

    Miele makes horrible products! And even worse customer service! Just don't... I know from bad experience!