Steven Spielberg on Stanley Kubrick’s The Shining
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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Only Kubrick could tell Steven Spielberg “nah, you’re wrong actually, my movie is great” and genuinely change his mind.
Spielberg continued to work with Michael Bay on Transformers movies. Just saying..
Actually, what he said was, "People have different tastes and preferences. I didn't make the movie for you."
@@TC1TheOrginal
Which is major cope, because if that was true, it wouldn't have bothered him one bit that he didn't love it.
@@Wrenchmonkey1artists being defensive of their work is natural
@@MistaAnonymous
What's your point? That changes nothing about what I said. The fact that he's defensive and insecure may be 'natural' but it doesn't add any truth to that statement.
Kubrick movies definitely grow on you
This conversation most likely never happened
"Steven didn't care for my movie at first. He even took Jack's performance and tried to tear it down. But I... corrected him."
🤣
Great post.
WIN!
I got it
1,500 likes and only 4 comments? Let’s fix that.
What I love about that conversation is that Kubrick KNEW that Spielberg wouldn’t name Cagney, and that was central to his argument
Not really, if he did say cagney the argument would just turn into "Well if you like cagney so much why not jack who has a very similar over the top style?"
It's a question which all the answers lead to him still having a good point
Or he would have picked somebody different than Cagney who goes over the top. It was central for Kubrick to stop Spielberg from naming anyone of relevance so he could say something that wasn't even really an argument.
@@wetwilly01really cool how you're trying to armchair psychoanalyze a conversation from probably 40 years ago being recalled by only 1 party
@@wetwilly01What a stupid fucking response.
@lannyfce4786 remember it for when you also have a non argument. Just accept the humility God lays before you.
Cagney was bigger than life in every role he had. Massive talent. Body language, facial expressions, speech pattern he had it all. Truly one of the greatest of all time!
Also a fantastic song and dance man.
Have a great poster of him in a scene from Angels Dirty Faces on my wall! @@pappy374
Some of the bloopers from old Hollywood movies feature Jimmy Cagney, and you can see him burst out laughing on a few occasions! There's one where he closes the door on a waiter and smashes the door! The look on his face is priceless, and the crew bursts out laughing!! He was phenomenal!!
The king! Watch public enemy😮
Don Rickles had that Cagney vibe. I crack up imagining one playing the other or the same character.
Shining is one of those movies that even if you subjectively don’t care for it - it’s still a masterclass on film
On how not to make a movie, but a collection of great scenes that feel totally unrelated.
I swear I don't see mastery, just atomized obsession. Man wouldn't know a narrative if it bit him in the ass.
@@userJohnSmithThis is a valid take, but I would say the movie isn't really about the plot at all. It's a loose narrative made to evoke a building sense of tension and unease. The individual scenes, in this case, are ultimately more important that what they mean together.
@@TheJrod482x Yeah but it's a flaw in every single one of his movies. Once, fine? Every time?
He's just not as good as people think.
@@userJohnSmith I don't know, man. Like I said, you're entitled to your opinion. But 2001, Paths of Glory (which has a fantastic narrative), Clock Work. I suppose if you're comparing him to other great directors I can see this point, but he's better than 90% of anyone who ever did it. Haha. It's hard to deny his breathtaking visual mastery and talent framing shots. But, to each his own.
@@TheJrod482x To be fair I've yet to see Paths, but 2001... Just does not compare to the novel in quality or scope. The initial sequence should've have been 1/3rd as long and huge plot points just don't happen and it damages the end result. It could have been better.
I highly recommend White Heat (1949) starring James Cagney. One of his greatest performances and you can definitely see the influence his "over-the-top" acting style had on Jack Nicholson.
Also, James Cagney happens to be the favorite actor of Nicolas Cage and Malcolm McDowell as well, which actually explains a lot.
I'd also add "Angels With Dirty Faces". That end scene is pure Cagney over the top.
Kubrick and Spielberg never understood each other’s filmmaking styles, and that’s what makes them both so great
And that's what made A.I so not a great a movie...
Nah, they understood. That’s why Kubrick gave AI to Spielberg. And here Spielberg’s just talking about the first time he saw the movie. He understands Kubrick.
I prefer by far Kubrick, watched all his movies more thank once, with Spielberg... don't know but he's too much of a people pleaser
@@ludovicadelpiano3714 Ya, we don't want people to enjoy the film... People pleaser? Well, we can't have that...
@@v4v819 not saying that at all and I'm probably not explaining myself, sorry, of course he's a great director too, but his style is too "epic" for me, too blockbuster regardless of the subjects he treats. It's only my opinon anyway
Stanley Kubrick films get better every time you watch them, because you pick up on a lot of the little details you might not notice the first time.
Agreed, but I personally cannot watch The Shining ever again. It freaked me out so bad and I got so frightened to the core. So scary
@@pblw4276 There are a few scenes where I (still) have to close my eyes b/c they scare the crap out of me.
All his films are available on dvd and Blu-ray. It can be a bit shocking,and extremely rewarding, to watch them in chronological order. Don’t forget Spartacus!
@@craiganderson7986 you know I've watched that a million times and I forget every time that it's Stanley Kubrick that directed
I didn’t like shining fist time I rented it in high school. Now at age 40 it’s one of
Best movies I’ve ever seen. The acting is unbelievable too
You think MAYBE HE SHOULD BE TAKEN TO A DOCTOR .
and 2001 is Best movie ever made. Made years before I was born. With FX that still look good.
Dave, although you took great pains to avoid my hearing your conversation in the pod bay, I could see your lips moving…
Orson Welles said James Cagney was the greatest actor of his Generation, quite a compliment.
If you watch Jack's eyes in his performance, he is doing these.. micro stares... into the camera... breaking the 4th wall, but just for a tiny moment. He did that on purpose, because it makes you, the viewer, uncomfortable. THAT is how good Jack is.
Nobody is making that decision but Kubrick
@@pt8292yeah but he did manage to pull it off
That was Kubrick's direction
@@dragons_red and Jack's implementation. Just because you tell someone to do something doesn't mean they can... or that they could do it properly.
@@srhatfieldbut that’s beside the point. you said he did it on purpose, inferring it was on his initiative, commenter simply pointed out that only the director will take that initiative.
My grandfather was a constable in Ireland when Cagney was there filming a movie, he kept onlookers at bay, my granddad got to talking with him a bit during his time working and as the film was being made that he took James out to a pub by his request to have a pint ( Guinness )with him , my grandfather said he was a very small guy, very quiet, soft spoken as opposed to his tough guy character on screen, said he was an absolute gentleman
My "5" .... Cagney, Hackman, Nicholson, Pacino, Peck.
This is a very respectable list. But how do you leave off DDL? I’d drop Pacino for DDL
@@mrobbins2406 .... who's DDL?
@@edwardmcmanus7496 Daniel Day Lewis? 😱
@@mrobbins2406 .... I thought so. Thx.
The Shining would be boring without Jack going absolutely bat shit insane.
When you watch some of the greatest movies of all time for the first time, you ask yourself, _"What did I just watch? I'm not sure if I liked it."_ It's only after the second or multiple viewings that you finally understand the story-telling and appreciate it's genius, you say, _"I now get it. That was a fcuking masterpiece!"_
I didn’t like shining fist time I rented it in high school. Now at age 40 it’s one of
Best movies I’ve ever seen. The acting is unbelievable too
You think MAYBE HE SHOULD BE TAKEN TO A DOCTOR
Jimmy Cagney was great. Very versatile.
Interesting perspective on cultured minds differing on preference
I too did not like The Shining. I thought Shelly Duvall's acting was over-exaggerated and some parts did not come to me as natural. I might need to see the movie again.
The problem I have with the film the shining is Jack Nicholson seems mad from the very beginning. It’s not a gradual descent into insanity like the book. He’s pretty much “crazy Jack “ from the get go
He's pretty relaxed and normal when you meet him, like around the interview process.
@@Llamakazi45yeah he puts on an ok face in the interview, but immediately after talking to Wendy he's short with her, dismissive, you can tell he hates her already
@@Llamakazi45I think you may have a different definition of “relaxed and normal” than most lol
I’m glad that Stephen King told you what to say
@@higginswalsanget Kubrick's dick out your mouth, boy. The book is sooo much better than the movie and that's Kubrick's fault. Yes, Nicholson could pretty much carry any movie back then but Kubrick should've done better. Instead he just spent most of the time on set pleasuring himself to Shelly Duvall's tears. What a sad little man.
When I think of Jack Nicholson in The Shining I think of George C.Scott in Dr Strangelove. Only the greatest actors can give performance that goes to the top w/o going over. As demanding a director as Kubrick was you know that he got what he wanted in both Nicholson's & Scott's performances & they're both iconic. The Shining was highly criticized when it came out especially for the acting but now its all considered a classic & rightfully so.
Kubrick’s films grow on you, even if you love them the first time around. thats some terrific filmmaking right there
The great thing about Kubrick films is the cinematography!
I agree that the acting was over the top. And some of the dialogue was pretty poor.
It could have been much better.
But like I say, the cinematography was fascinating, it sticks in your mind and it's always interesting to watch it again.
And people take offense when you ask them that in an argument... I can't even imagine their reasoning.
I just imagine in any debate no matter the topic, you're like "so james cagney is not in your top five?", and then you get offended when people call it bad form. Thats the funniest mental image ive ever heard
I think Jack Nicholson was the wrong choice only because he’d already done Cuckoo’s Nest so the audience knew him as an established crazy guy.
Having said that, I can’t even hazard a guess as to who could have surpassed his performance in that film.
Which he was in the shining as well so i don't see your point...
If someone is being tactful and polite, and you beat the truth out of them, and then go on the defensive... you might be an asshole. Or maybe a great filmmaker, i don't know how this works.
It’s funny bc the second time you see Spielberg movie you realize they are complete shit
The Shining is flat and overly dramatic.
Berry Lyndon is a Masterpiece
James Cagney is my favorite of those golden age Hollywood actors. His versatility was staggering.
So... it's not just me. Validation after all these years.
And i like Jack.
Funny, cagney was at the top of my list not thinking about it just rattling off actors.
'The Shining' came out in 1980, Spielberg's '1941' came out in 1979. At that point in time, I think Kubrick had you beat. Although you did do the first 'Raiders' in 1981 and your greatness was in high gear!
Jimmy Stewart is the G.O.A.T 🐐
Lol, true
Can someone explain Kubriks argument here? I don't understand, Cagney is of the greatest. That is why Nicholson did a great performance?
How do these other actors being good relate to Nicholson?
Kubrick thinks Cagney is one of the greats and that Nicholson is like him so Spielberg could just never get it if he doesn’t like Cagney
Spielberg makes films for families, Kubrick makes films for a single mind. Both their movies leave you sitting there for hours thinking about what you just saw.
Sooooo filmmakers being the deep thoughtful artists they are, view pictures through different lenses at different times. A film can be viewed at face value for entertainment impact - which for a lot of consumers is the pretty much as far as it will go. The Shining , like other book adaptations can be appreciated more deeply after reading the book. That said both the movie and the book are actually stand alone masterpieces, but they are psychologically extremely deep, digging into alot of hidden themes. So depending on your consiousness, you may have to indulge each a number of times to get all the nuances and enjoy the whole spectrum of understanding that the works can provide.
All great actors for sure, but weren’t they all like elderly when this was filmed? Not saying Clark gable couldn’t of hypothetically banged out a kid with Shelly Duvall when he was in his 60’s, but would of been a bit… off, right?
Honestly I’m with Spielberg!
I’m not all about the Shining hype. It’s got great moments and scary scenes but overall just doesn’t scare me.
Duval is a little much
I’ve seen it many times and I still don’t get the hype. Love the book and when I separate it from the book, I kinda enjoy it on its own but yeah, I just don’t think it’s great. Definitely beautiful with a terrific score but Jack is barely even acting. In my opinion.
However I F’in love me some Full Metal Jacket and Barry Lyndon .
Stanley used a TRICK QUESTION:
5 actors?
You’ll always leave one out...
Cagney was fantastic. Need to watch white heat and angels with dirty faces again. If you're not familiar with them, check em out.
Movies are subjective..one person may love it one may hate it. But i think the shinning captivating some how.. i like the hidden meanings in it..
I honestly can say when I first watched the Shining I didn’t love it. Of course it’s a masterclass in filmmaking, acting, directing, etc. but over time it really grew on me, I think it just took some time to digest it and think about it.
Loved the film the first time and after over 40 times watching it.
Alternative and substance vs big Hollywood, sometimes cheesy
Very true. Took me three viewings of A Clockwork Orange to really appreciate it
full metal jacket is the one that has kept growing on me the most, just seeing the many ways that the insanity of war is practically a guaranteed outcome of human nature
I wouldn't change a thing about the shining, perfect
I’m just going to say it, I think Kubrick is overrated.
The Shining is the movie you don't like and you can't stop rewatching and thinking about it.
thats why that was stanley kubrick and he is steven spielberg.
Torturing poor female actresses too
If you go after Kubrick for that, then you'll have to say the same about Hitchcock.
@@econojonmaybe he doesn’t like Hitchcock either. We don’t know because you’re the one who brought him up.
The shining is a masterpiece
For those are wondering, what he said was, "People have different tastes and preferences. I didn't make the movie for you."
Ok. Thank you. This was what I needed. Totally didn’t get what he was saying. And I guess that’s why I don’t like the shining, and I should just accept it.
I don’t care. I like the movie and that’s enough for me
Steven, just like your movies tell great stories, you told a great story here! Much respect!
Jesus Steven…it’s ok not to like something 😂
yeah but for professionals and artists like them it's good to be able to communicate why you like or dislike something
Not to Kubrick apparently lol
@@jamess.7811I agree with you, for a profession or artistic expression like directing, there are only so many people (other excellent, mass-appeal, large scale movie directors) from whom a true pro could get peer feedback.
Up the Chooks
PANTHERS PANTHERS PANTHERS
All great work's or art take a few times through before it hits you..or maybe it never does.
Nicholson was great the first time I saw it and the next 10 times I saw it. That movie is so creepy I can only watch it in the daytime.
This is facts. Like all entertainment outlets, when you like something, you like it. When you don’t, you don’t and that’s OK!
I wish Kubrick did something w Nic Cage. Would have been mad.
I don’t know what Stanley was trying to say.
That they have different tastes in actors. Although they are both masters at what they do, their differences in taste and preferences directly reflect their style and methods of telling a story.
Wtf does James Cagney have to do with the shining
When you make something you believe in, you can look Steven Spielberg in the eye and say “nah give it another watch and come back” 😂
Kubrick : Steven get me some coffee...
Yes sir!!!
The shining was received with mixed reviews, and It's crazy to me to think this movie wasn't immediately loved and praised by all! Then again, I saw it for the first time as a young child in the 90s.
Cagney’s acting abilities gets short shrift these days but the consensus among directors of his era and up to the present day, is that he was among the greatest actors ever to appear on the screen.
Orson Welles considered Cagney to be the best film actor he ever saw.
The Shining is Epic. I also love Indiana Jones ❤
One of those is a movie, one is a character.
That explains nothing
yea..even I didn't get what's the point here.
Yea, but what about James Cagney?
Jack Nicholson was excellent in the shining!! Kubrick was lucky to have him.
Cagney killed his role in White Heat
Spielberg's initial reaction was on the money.
James Cagney was an incredible actor.
What does that last sentence even mean
Dang guess I’m just a genius because I loved the shining the first time I saw it
Cagney’s performance in “White Heat” really sticks with me and partly because the ending is so over the top.
Well, I’ve seen THE SHINING a number of times, and while I think there’s much to admire about it I still don’t rank it anywhere near Kubrick’s best, and definitely consider Nicholson’s performance to be over-the-top. Spielberg was entitled to feel likewise, and it doesn’t exactly raise my estimate of Kubrick’s character that he felt the need to bludgeon a younger director who clearly idolized him into changing his opinion.
I didn't get what he means
Kubrick was telling Spielberg they have different taste without saying his is better. Kubrick made films he wanted to see, others not liking them didn’t matter as much.
@@cokebottles6919if he didn't care..then why he asked speilberg again and again why he didn't like the movie
@@rameshrolla1574because he respects Stephens opinion and wanted to understand why Stephen didn’t like it.
Once he understood it was a matter of taste rather than some technical issue the conversation was over. He asked his favorite actors to better understand Stephens taste. It is a very smart and class discussion from two great directors.
@@cokebottles6919 then why he released in cinemas..if he don't care abt audience... He should have made films and play them in his home.. arrogant director and overrated too
@@rameshrolla1574 I think you’re missing the point. When they said that he makes movies for himself, they probably meant that he’s not directing how the movie should go to please the masses, but instead to accomplish his vision (which is something all directors do)
Cagney delivered like it was a bomb explosion, so did Jack… Perfect analogy… i never would’ve thought comparing those two…
I don’t understand how not naming Cagney means Jackson performance was good.
I love Cagney and Nicholson and The Shinig but I don’t get this argument. Unless the point is everything is subjective…..but then Kubrick argues objectively.
What am I missing?
Ethan hawke plays the boy in The shining all the way grown up in doctor sleep. it's an absolutely great movie that, everybody, if you love The shining, you should see.....
There is not one second of one single Kubrick movie that doesn’t bore the sht out of me. Space OddToMe? Trash. Clockwork OrangeYouGladits-Over? Trash. Full Metal Snooze-fest? Trash. Eyes Wide Shit? Shtty trash. The Shining? Booooooorrrring. I do not understand why people call him a genius when not a single film is watchable. Like not a single film.
No one quotes Kubrick, except for ‘Here’s Johnny’, which was improved. That’s all you need to know.
I didn't like it the first time, only because I didn't get it. I had to watch it twice. I also couldn't stand Shelly Duvall. I found her screams annoying.
This incredible and pristine audio quality was achieved for this video clip by recording it with a Speak & Spell from 1983.
Spielberg got the films and series for the general public. Kubrick got pictures for those who have distinctive taste, either you love'em or you hate'em.
Honestly I just watched it 6 hours ago. I enjoyed it, but I found a decent bit too drawn out/not believable. Maybe it will grow on me. Definitely open to giving it a second viewing.
"What are your top 5 songs?" "Thriller, Macarena, Barbie Girl, Gangam Style, Baby Shark"...."Now Tell me what do you think about Baba O'Riley by The Who?"
Kubrick would have just named another actor that Spielberg hadnt mentioned.
It is called "playing him" and control.... over a much better and more succesful director.
The shining sucks! He butchered the book, which is interesting for. A man goes crazy for no reason, then gets beat up by his 85lbs wife, kills an old man that's not paying attention, then out smarted by a 5 year old, then sits down to die in the snow. It's dumb
Man, you gotta have balls to show Kubrick these opinions. Spielberg, don't get me wrong, don't shine a left shoe of Kubrick worst picture. Any Kubrick is better than any Spielberg film. Love both,but that's the truth.
qh hes not in your top 5.... therefore the riddle is ....because you dont count him.... top five.. you can't... tell what ...see..what I ...did. erm number 42, see i'm right you are wrong.
what kind of a backwards riddle is that shit, art is subjective. lets put it another way the power of the shining is as useful as raiders of the lost ark's Indiana role, if both were missing nothing would really change.
I get what he's saying about Kubrick films growing on you. I also didn't like The Shining or Full Metal Jacket or Eyes Wide shut the first time I saw them. Clockwork Orange as well. I love them all now but have also watched each of them a minimum of 10x a film.
Steven didn't like how the Mom and her boy were treated by the husband and Dad of the boy. Akthiugh in the bookthe boy is mentallyandphysicallyabusedby his Dad, if Steven had directed, he wouldn't have shown the rage the Dad shows on his boy or the terror he inflicts on his wife. In that sense, Steven hated violence against women and kids.
Stanley was right
dumb explanation
I agree with Stanley Kubrick about Cagney. My favorite James Cagney movie is The Roaring Twenties (1939).
Steve I didn't like it much either, but many aspects were great. Favorite movie 2001 A Space Odessey. The Right Stuff #2.
We get used to a certain tone in films that resonates with popular culture. So that is what directors give us. Something that works. Then a director comes along and offers a whole new style and sometimes we dont get it or dont like it. But then... We realize we just need fresh eyes and ears... And a movie we originally didn't like becomes our favorite! This is how I felt with The Big Lebowski and There Will be Blood...
Imagine saying The Shining isn't a movie that you enjoyed watching and then going on to make slop like Ready Player One, Spielberg will not beat the fraud allegations
All the whinging about how Kubrick really wasn't good (despite the reputation otherwise) reminds me of the Yogi Berra quote, "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."
At some point you have to accept your contrarian take doesn't make you cool.
Both Kubrick and Spielberg place in cinema history is set by concensus opinion. Personal opinions and tastes may disagree and all are entitled. But some of these complaints smack of sour grapes.
Crazy that those are Spielberg’s top actors because none of them are great actors lmao. They’re good for their time. But once Brando and Newman come into film, and DeNiro and Pacino after that, the quality of acting and actors increases tremendously.