Yo amir, no apologies. Your job may have started as review, however you have become the one guy that can prove all this crap wrong. I have known this, but am in no position to do the testing as you. I thank you. The whole community loves your ass. We've needed you for years.
Let’s see if I have this right: Danny thinks that your ultra sensitive equipment is incapable of measuring the difference his cable can make but anybody who spends 300+ dollars on his crap cable and spends 200+ hours burning it in will then hear such an improvement that for many it will result in an eargasm. Amir, I appreciate you holding these charlatans feet to the fire!
It's really funny to think a power cable would make a difference when the speaker terminals or the spade connectors of the drivers inside a speaker cost a cent to make...
doesnt matter since the copper gets casted again and a new crystalstructure forms, also its not clear if the dialetric actually plays a role here as danny has stated
Classic. Look, even that's hard to sell to some people, though. Aren't there a group of believers in the earth being 6,000 years old. Maybe they need to burn in their copper cables because of the shorter history.
Uhh snake oil is the legitimate article and still in use today. Hilarious how people embarrass themselves commenting on this channel while claiming to know science. SMH
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Pretty ironic on your part. "legitimate snake oil" A little wikipedia primer on the subject. "Snake oil is a term used to describe deceptive marketing, health care fraud, or a scam. Similarly, snake oil salesman is a common label used to describe someone who sells, promotes, or is a general proponent of some valueless or fraudulent cure, remedy, or solution.[1] The term comes from the "snake oil" that used to be sold as a cure-all elixir for many kinds of physiological problems. Many 19th-century United States and 18th-century European entrepreneurs advertised and sold mineral oil (often mixed with various active and inactive household herbs, spices, drugs, and compounds, but containing no snake-derived substances whatsoever) as "snake oil liniment", making claims about its efficacy as a panacea. Patent medicines that claimed to be a panacea were extremely common from the 18th century until the 20th, particularly among vendors masking addictive drugs such as cocaine, amphetamine, alcohol, and opium-based concoctions or elixirs, to be sold at medicine shows as medication or products promoting health."
@@Jeremy-he3ch If they are real they will be heard in a DBT and yet the mere mention of DBTs is like holding a cross up to a vampire. It's pretty telling.
@Jeremy Let me guess ... you got that from some cable maker's website... didn't you? Seriously ... most real engineers are aware of these issues and their circuit designs will guard against them. Were it otherwise, there would be mass complaints from their customer base at large and THAT would be well reported.
It’s a shame that this sort of behaviour is so common in the audio world. Too many lies and shady practices equating to pay checks. Thank you as always for exposing the horse shit.
It wouldn't work if not so many so-called audiophiles would believe in things which don't exist. I am sure Danny will come up with a reason why the rope in that cable makes an electric difference. Yeah, sure...
I can imagine a scenario: A guy uses 1000 dollars to a new power cable. He invites his friend over and puts the music on with a big grin on the face, hiding the secret. Surely they'll be blown away by the huge improvement 🤣 Nobody notices...
@@dingdong2103 Thats why the placebo is always a personal effect. For the friend to notice they must first be menially converted with mysticism and gaslighting.
You are an honest man Amir. You do this as a hobby to expose the truth. You want nothing from anyone. You sir stopped me from going down the Audiophile rabbit hole. Just enjoy your music!!
the term audiophile has been hijacked; it means "A person having an ardent interest in stereo or high-fidelity sound reproduction.", what you're describing is an audiofool!
@Jeremy I earned my college degree by listening to instruction from educated, experienced teachers of that field. Does that not make me not smart enough. Your argument is not smart... You take the information, test it for yourself with the given data, and wow, his scientific measurements are a thing.
@@HeliBenj Subjectivity as in measurements; what is commonly known as proof and evidence? I'm pretty sure you've confused subjectivity for objectivity.
Yeah, have you noticed how his measurements always show a gigantic frequency dip in the crossover region of the speaker in question ? Of course, there is often such a dip but he uses an exagerated vertical scale to make all speakers (except his own , and his modded variants, no doubt) look much worse than they oftren are.
This is why most companies don’t respond when they have a product that isn’t as advertised. You just keep the bad press going. Thanks for the info Amir
@@Jeremy-he3ch most analog media has some amount of noise in the background, this is mostly part of the charm/signature of the media and not looked at as a negative but god forbid some undetectable amount of noise sneaks in via power cord.
@Jeremy True, tubes are objectively worse than solid state. But I have read about some engineers not being able to tell the master tape apart from the LP (I think Stereophile said exactly that in a review when using the Shure V-15 Type III or IV?) but the CD part sounds like bull
@@DasAntiNaziBroetchen Flat earther, it isn’t hard to test. I tried two different power cables on my Sony TV, and the difference in video quality was very obvious. One caused a grainy picture, and the other was much clearer. Nothing subjective about it. Any reason why power cables cause a difference in video but not audio? Let’s just start there.
Amir, you are the most important guy in the audio business. Thanks to you all, this snake oil producers will hopefully upgrade their products or disappear from the market.
Amir, you are a myth :-) . I'm an electronic engineer passionate for hi-fi and music and I LOVE when you debunk these crooks who sell equipment costing hundreds/thousands of dollars without giving any technical reasons or tangible results... the problem is that, even in hi-fi field (as in other hobbies like luxury watches or collecting art), there are too many people with lots of money to spend and few technical skills to be able to evaluate what is really good and what I smoke... keep it up, thanks for your work!
nope he is just horrible ! banning people from the ASR forum anyone who disagrees w/ him he calls a troll and ban them he is just a cancelling creep ! like a Nazi !
Of you think of it... Those rich people kind got their money on the back of some other people. Scolding them snake oil for good money is a way of redistributing it. I would not cry for those rich dumb people, but I would fight for a good and argumented scientific proof.
I challenged Danny to do a DBT of his power cables. He was quick to accept. But it became quite clear after some back and forth that he was not willing to do an actual DBT and was trying to set up a rigged test that would allow him to cheat. Danny isn't a true believer. He's a fraud.
@@MikeDawson1 sure. He was insisting that a DBT was impossible and that the cables HAD to be physically swapped out. I told him that it would be easy to design a test where the cables would not need to be swapped out. He insisted that ANY switching device would induce noise. So from there I asked him to tell me what system he was planning to use and where in the system he wanted to test the power cords. He refused to answer that. I suspect he refused to answer that to avoid me designing a test using his system that would avoid physical cable swaps. I asked him for evidence that every switching device would induce noise. He refused to respond to that. I asked him how a switching device would mask the benefits of his power cord? he refused to answer that. I asked him if he understood that every preamp was in effect a switching device and did he warn his customers that use preamps in their systems that the benefits of his power cords would be masked by their preamps. At this point he resorted to ad hominem retorts with no responses to any of my questions and points. It became quite clear that he was not willing to do any "blind" listening test that he did not fully control and did not have a physical cable swap.
I wonder if he’s truly being intentionally deceptive or whether it’s the sort of cognitive dissonance taking over when one asks an awkward questions to a religious person which point out the faults in their position. Not necessarily deliberate but faulty epistemology.
@@scottwheeler2679 Obviously, if Danny thinks all cables have a sound then he's going to think a switching device is going to have an enormous effect. I don't necessarily agree, but I believe Danny completely believes what he says, and I also think you're being obtuse about it.
@@bwiz6514 Then shouldn't he be warning all of his customers that a preamp will erase any benefits his power cords have? A preamp IS a switching device. Oooor do you think he is very quick to tell his customers just how much his power cords will help improve the sound of their systems when used on their preamps? The obvious solution to his demand to physically swap out power cables would be to use a preamp to do the switching. Of course he refused to disclose what the system would actually be which prevented me from offering any such solutions to what he claims was an unsolvable problem. I don't think he believes any of his B.S. If he did why would he refuse to even disclose the system he was planning to use?
I recently purchased one of these cables, used, om EBay for the bargain price of $299! I like buying used cables, saves me having to wait for them to ‘burn in’!!! I connected it between the wall mains outlet and my ‘ultra high end’, ‘world class’, ‘reference’, ‘class leading’, ‘statement’, ‘hybrid’ ‘benchmark’ power amp. Honestly??? The difference it made was phenomenal. Mot ‘night and day’, no, ‘summer and winter’. The soundstage did not extend beyond my speakers, it extended beyond the room. The bass gained heft, vut retained tight and textured. The mid range became detailed and full of body. The high frequency became so smooth and polite, I couldn’t here them. I was so impressed, I used it to power my washing machine . Again, the difference wads incredible. Spin speedincreased to 1800rpm but was incredibly smooth. The machine no longer danced around the utility room, but I tribute that to the cable’s tethering qualities, not it!s electrical properties. The caveat is that my teenage daughter used to enjoy sitting astride the machine when it reached full spin speed. That damned cable has denied her that basic, primal pleasure. So, I’ve reverted to more affordable Woolworth’s basic range of mains cables. $1.99 for a pack of 3!
Great video Amir, I consider myself a HiFi enthusiast and made my living in the late 80's and 90's as high end audio bench technician. I then worked in high end custom residential AV integration till present. I have tested, repaired,installed and heard everything. The audio review journalist have such a way with words, it's almost like pornography for the ear. The way they describe sound is an art form, I think people can get caught up especially people who are not experienced listeners and long to hear what's being described.These people become vulnerable and began to chase ghost with money buying all the snake oil.
I recently got into the audio hobby and coming from more technical hobbies, I was amazed by how subjective and poetic the descriptions and comparisons in a lot of reviews were. Almost nobody seems to do actual measurements, with some at best adding a frequency response chart
Amir, you are a treasure to the music community. I mean the whole community, because the less people spend on ridiculous junk like power cords (power cords!), the more they can spend on buying music. As a recording engineer and musician, I salute you.
Love it! I recently purchased a set of Magnepan .7 speakers and have been starting to do battle, on the user groups, with advocates, swearing “A HUGE IMPROVEMENT” by simply replacing the fuse with a large gauge silver wire. ~7AWG. “Like lifting a blanket off of the speakers” “I don’t care if I blow the tweeters and have to replace them every year”.
There is this guy going by the name "Jay" who is beginning to kiss Danny's arse. A bunch of clowns we have these days who just want to go with the flow. Thanks for clearing this up Amir.
Thanks for the response, your points are very well laid out and the way they were presented easy to understand. Love that you take a good hard look at these products. I find it interesting that GR Research customers are very quick to defend Danny and his products. So, I think there is something to what he is doing. Therefore, I do not think Danny is actually the issue. To me he is somebody that is trying to make a buck some of what he offers is legit other stuff not so much. What concerns me, is a wider issue of healthy skepticism and critical thinking in our culture/hobby is not readily practiced. In my interaction with fans of GR Research they all swear up and down, how satisfied they are and enjoy the sounds of the speaker mods they purchased. If that is the case no beef here, enjoy. Yet no one could give me a reason to believe that their glowing experience was nothing but confirmation bias. No one reported an experience where a stock unit and modified unit was compared/contrasted side by side. Not looking for a customer to conduct an irrefutable statistically verifiable double-blind test with a control group here, but at least try and confirm for yourself that the changes you are making to your investment actually has an audible impact for the better, over just blind faith in the mods alone.
Well done Amir. Personally I find it very difficult to engage with the sort of bad-faith arguments that plague 'high-end' audio. Snake-oil salesmen like this are a disease that's been fostered by magical thinking.
That GR guy tried to be "relevant" on youtube, but alienated pretty much everybody in short order. His criteria for being a "legitimate" reviewer is someone who can hear differences in cables! So he values all opinions as long as they are his!
I agree. He really had something good going for a while explaining crossovers, speakers in general, etc. But then got into selling useless tweaks with a straight face, losing some of the very people who liked him originally. Just lacks common sense on that front.
@@AudioScienceReview True. He seems to have legitimate knowledge and skill. I don't doubt that. But then there's the speaker cable thing, and his famous attempt at gatekeeping the audio review hobby!
Amir should hold an Awards Show for Audio Snake Oil Slimeball Salesperson of the year and Audio Snake Oil products of the year...you would have plenty to choose from...😊
YES BEST PROPOSITION EVER, A SNAKE Oil TROPHY CLUB, with music and on stage announcements, followed by a audioechnomeasurement award given out by the snake guys.
I was considering them last year when I was looking at his speaker kits. After looking at several companies I ended up with going with a pair of CSS that I believe you tested and recommended. Once you go the snake oil route, all your other products become suspect. Once again, thank you for this work.
Danny : "Amir's super sensitive equipment can't measure the improvment of my audio cable !" Also Danny "My 300$ cable will audibly change your audio experience trust me bro !"
Perhaps I missed it, but it's likely that had you tested the "ultra-cryogenically treated" power cable, you would have been blown away by the sonic bliss and the incredible measurements...
interesting.. what does the nrd guy have to do w gr guy? just curious; i can’t tell how to feel about the nrd guy, seems he’s trying to placate both science minded ppl and flat earf ppl maybe lol not sure.
The placebo effect, in my opinion, is a force that we often underestimate but should not overlook. The reason I find the placebo effect so fascinating is that it is deeply rooted in the fundamental workings of our brains. Think about how many times we have complimented friends or family simply to uplift their spirits. Surprisingly, even if we know that the compliments are not entirely true, they can still have a positive impact. This demonstrates the immense power of the placebo effect. In the realm of audio, we encounter similar situations. For instance, if someone asserts that cable A is superior to cable B, our initial skepticism may arise. However, our brains tend to bias us towards confirming that statement as true, even if we harbor doubts. This cognitive bias is a product of the placebo effect at play. To counteract the influence of the placebo effect, measurements are the only way to remove this bias . While measurements may not always be perfect and can occasionally miss certain nuances, they remain the most reliable method to confirm facts. By relying on measurements, we a introduce a high level of objectivity into our evaluations and ensure that our judgments are grounded in tangible evidence. without measurements , anything anyone tells you at any time will have an affect on your thoughts and ideas, without proof the effect on you mind is in effect a placebo until proven.
having paid several hundred or thousands of dollars for something really really helps with this effect. You are "totally invested" at that point. You need it to be better!
Excellent video Amir! You have shown conclusively that, like so many people in the hi-fi industry, Danny regularly engages in bad faith arguments. I have no patience for these people anymore.
its about time, people need this! Take for an example in motorsport engineering there are many high performance components well engineered. They are still rigorously tested for safety and performance without all the "claims" from manufactures. But at the end of the day when all is accounted for there is a simple stop watch and lap times. You are the stop watch here and I thank you.
Thanks Amir. Love the work that you do. I admire that you have the patience and dedication to accurately measure and test something that is clearly nonsense.
Good job! In my opinion, ALL the "audiophile" power cables fall in the same mysterious magical world of performance. GR is just trying to get a chunk of the cable pie. I have the Nuprime Evolution DAC 2/Preamp, and the Evolution STA power amplifier, THD+ N .0005%, SNR over 110db, do you think it needs a $500 or $10,000 power cord to net any improvement? or sound better? The Evolution is very well designed, with high quality components, circuitry, internal power supply, and is dead silent. Stock power cord, no hocus pocus power conditioner! Spend your $$ on quality components, sit back and let the music flow! 👍👍
Amir, in a recent video Danny said they are now freezing their power cables and it makes a big difference in the sound quality. Maybe the reason you didn't hear any difference is because you used an unfrozen cable? Also, maybe your headphones should be frozen so you will finally be able to hear differences in power cables. For that matter, maybe your spectrum analyzer should be frozen as well so it will be able to detect signal differences that it is currenly missing?
If Danny can hear a difference, then the difference must be real - even if nobody else can hear or measure a difference. You guys just don't have the highly trained ears that Danny has. 😂😂😂😂😂 @@AudioScienceReview
Hi Amir, just discovered your channel and being a believer in the impact of cables (and all components in the chain) your null-test really was an eyeopener! As you say, there is no disputing the results of such a test. One thing that would be really educational to see: a scenario where the null-tests actually gives an audible result. That is, if you change a cable, a component etc. and the null tests actually shows a difference. Maybe not so much related to this video but as really good input on how to show what actually improves/changes the sound and what does not. Just an idea 😊 Anyway, thank you for bringing more logic and science to the audiophile domain.
Very well stated. It is so difficult to convince someone of a fact when their response is “but I know”. In this instance it is “but I can hear”, but the point is the same. And yes, the “flat earthers” are those that “believe” or “know” or “hear” but offer no proof, not those that use scientifically obtained data as proof.
@Jeremy Jeremy. I really don’t want to get into with someone who wants to believe as oppose to measure. But as to my dealing with circuits, I’m a retired EE with experience in everything from controls to 132k volts. I’ve worked in many industrial plants and seen the sun come up in everyone helping electricians troubleshoot a problem. My now expired PE license didn’t make me an expert in anything but it did give an indication of my willingness to search for an answer be it from literature are experts in the field. My natural tendency is too strongly question people’s arguments when they use the phrase “it’s common knowledge” as proofs of their argument. After all, like the mechanic at one repair shop said, “it’s common knowledge” that GM developed a carburetor that could get 100 miles to the gallon but the oil companies purchased the patent to keep it off the market. Everyone knows it’s common knowledge.
Thanks, Amir! Keep holding his feet to the fire. I've also had a "discussion" in the past with Danny resulting in a very similar outcome. "His words" against my copied reviews of his new, expensive, small single driver speakers versus copied reviews of the following: Anthony Gallo A'Diva SE's, which are better, (audiophile) small single driver speakers for much less money.
It would be very entertaining as well to measure some $10,000+ speaker cables from established cable companies. If someone who bought them would have the guts and honesty to send them to ASR for measurements:).
What would come out of a visit??? He can move the needled by conducting a controlled test on half a dozen local audiophiles and show us the video. What he has done is a PR stunt. Don't fall for it. Ask for evidence that doesn't require me to flying to his place for no reason.
@@AudioScienceReview but wouldn’t be as powerful as you visiting. Just do it. That video would garner a million views. Plus, would be good to see people with opposing views come together, even if to agree to disagree.
@@MiloPrager I get it more than most. But I’m an electrical engineer who actually designs circuits for a living as my day job. I’m not here to debate science, as I don’t think many are equipped to do that. I would simply like to see if Amir can hear what Danny states, maybe while having a cold one. Then they can agree to disagree and move on with life. Sounds like you took my point somewhere completely different.
The only reason I buy some power cord is just to have a bit nicer cord. I really like to have nice and tidy speaker connections and nice power cord is just aesthetic addition. Second reason is that I can choose lenght, and use just 0,5m long instead of long default power cord. But to say that I hear any difference would be wrong. It is there just to satisfy my ocd need and have a nice power cord. Edit: I usually spend some 20-30$ on that and it looks and works great.
Yep as nice gear jewelry that's why I have some. Same for replacing the jumper plates on the speakers. I like the looks but I won't pay a lot for looks. Just a little money for decent looks and quality
I knew I was on to something, when as a child I made an audio device by stretching a rope between two tin cans. It's shocking to learn I could have sold my invention to some audiophiles for hundreds of dollars!
Danny shot himself in the foot. Some years ago, I was thinking about buying some of his speakers. At that time, I thought what he explained about the speakers made sense. And then he published some crazy videos about testing speaker cables on an antenna input. That was the moment that I realized the guy is crazy and there is no point buying anything from such a guy. Thank you, Danny, for exposing yourself. And thank you Amir for making us laugh.
I too liked his early videos talking about crossovers and such. As you, it did not take long to see his other side which run completely counter to his measurement focused speaker/crossover work.
Interesting - can someone be really good at doing something, say like being the President of the US, and then, be completely useless and broken in his personal life? I’ve seen that happen multiple times. Danny is an excellent DIY speaker designer who puts a good product out for a budget price. Is he out there on some of this other stuff? Yep. But to throw the baby out with the bath water is ignorance and intolerance at its finest.
@@jon1810 Crossovers and cables are based on the same science. You can't be good in crossovers (and wires between parts and wires to the drivers) and at the same time an idiot about cables. Danny shows measurements for his work on his crossovers. But for cables no measurements. That makes no sense at all!
@@edgar9651 You are not correct there. Designing a crossover is all about science through measurement. Now - if you’re saying that the parts and wires being used after the science is conducted make no difference, ok then (cheap parts or “cheese” as Danny calls it vs. Premium parts). He still does design the crossover the correct way with measurements (unlike the guys who do it “all by ear”)
Very, very well said! Danny is getting so much attention, like Paul from Ps Audio, that EVERYTHING they say, so many people take that for granted! Not even asking...he has good stuff, but it doesnt mean he knows everything. But as many in social media, as soon you get to the point of many YT-groupies/followers, they get the usual star-effect/arrogance !!
I find it hilarious how he starts the video saying "A company called GR Research ( AKA Danny Richie) and the Company (AKA Danny Richie) made a video responding to that...." 🤣🤣
This has caused me not to want to listen to GR research. I thought of taking my speakers to him for measurement. I restored them myself and would love see what the outcome was. They sound good to me. Thank You
Our species lived for over 150,000 years in explicit ignorance, but we changed behavior rather suddenly some 15,000 years ago. From the written word, about 6,000 years ago, came several thousand years of limited advancement, more in mathematics than most anything else. 2,300 years ago, in an ancient Greek classroom, there was a demonstration (probably not the first) of a "sealed teapot" device that gently spun when turning heat into mechanical energy, and at that moment everything required to understand the simple engineering of steam engine power was demonstrated. Yet, zero advancement on that science is documented for at least 1800 years. Then, the scientific method was formalized and practiced. After 1800 years of relative stagnation, following the use of the scientific method, it took only 300 years to reach steam engine technology. That method can be comically said, "If you can't prove what you claim, your probably made it up." Here we see an example of that concept.
I built and ran professional recording studios, after starting out in hifi when it was objective. My degree is in psychology. It has been clear to me for over 30 years of dealing with subjective hifi people that the key to this sort of delusion lies in the psychology of hearing - and/or sales!
Some things cannot B explained by scientific measuring devices.. This is a truism... Freud's classic "The Uncanny" proves this... I have suggested Amir read this... He hasn't..
Thank you for another amusing episode of "Danny Says" 😁. And cheers for the remark on the burnin. Already forgot about it. Adam burns in all their higher end monitor speakers infactory (think with speakers it actually makes sense). With such high prices Im not gonna to do it myself, waste energy for 200+ hours lol.
The most astounding thing about audiophile community is - that they buy amps,dacs,headphones etc that are engineered, designed and made in factories by the help of audio engineering in other word, “science” and then refute science by saying things can’t be measured and they somehow know better than the engineers/scientists that made them. 😅
The only important thing is what comes out the audio XLRs (or rca). I 'upgraded' some equipments PSU and I could clearly measure less noise on the power rails, but guess what? No difference in noise at the XLR outputs! My hard work was pointless, so I never sold it to anybody. 😢 PSRR?
I really appreciate the content. You picked up a lot of things that I would have missed, like "wait a minute, that's how ANC headphones work". Danny uses a lot of pseudoscience that non-engineers struggle to refute.
Thanks AMIR, I just subscribed, to many golden ears on UA-cam , I’ve been seriously listening to music since 1976 I also borrowed a lot of expensive amps & cables from a friend with money to burn. Whenever he got tired of a cable I would buy it for a quarter of its original price, I spent hours comparing my inexpensive cables with his & never heard any difference. Moving a listening seat 5 or 6” forward or aft creates more of a difference than any cable, playing pink noise proves the same point.
I'm new to this hobby and I'm finding out that cables don't tweak the sound quality of your system. So, what would be the best tweaks to improve sound quality?
I would also like to see any test data backing up claims that ferrous metal fastening a binding post effects the sound. In New Record Day's test, they used a speaker with both binding posts and tube connectors. This was to enable easy swapping and comparison. This also means the two binding post nuts were still in the circuit. I guess one may surmise the ferrous nut mattered AND didn't matter, all at the same time. Less than an inch from the tube connector path, supposedly made everything OK but going through the wire from the back of the terminal post fastened by the nut was not OK. I get so tired of RF theory being improperly applied to the audio spectrum at frequencies so low that even skin effect is never a problem.
Yep. But the burden of proof is on Danny. I'm pretty certain they do not make any audible difference. If they did, it would be measurable, and he'd have posted the measurements. The issue with scammers and charlatans is that not everything they say is false. For instance, the crossover upgrades often seem like genuine improvements; measurements based, FR apparently improved. BUT. Ultra expensive components used, which all may or may not be beneficial, so redesign likely beneficial, but I'm certain you could replace components with normal ones and it wouldn't be pass a DBT.
My understanding was that a zobel network is to compensate for the reactive load presented when connecting a speaker to the output of an amplifier and therefore prevent the amplifier from oscillating and destroying itself. While it may also filter RF that is not really the purpose nor a concern .
I have a couple of garden hose size cables. I bought them for looks 😅Knowing how thin the wiring is behind the wall, speaker internal wiring, and the IEC of any individual component, it’s silly to think power cables are critical.
@@Jeremy-he3ch All hobbies are a kind of lunacy to a point. It’s actually needed. Audio is a side hobby of mine… the others are boats and cars. There’s even more lunacy there.
Danny will claim that his paint job on your Honda Civic will increase fuel efficiency by 1000 percent and make the turn radius sharper than a Clydesdale
Brilliant, so sick of the tedious snake oil nonsense. Who in hell would do a null test with microphones in a room? There is no way ambient noise would ever be nulled out. The way you did it is the proper way and clearly shows there is no difference between the two cables.
what really sickens me is always the claim of "threshold of audibility" .... why show a -94db CD noisefloor? why not actually show the noisefloor of the device? i guess because there would be differences which are masked by the CD noisefloor... imo amir more often then not rigs his tests like that for many things where people claim there are differences there are actually measurements showing difference... but then comes the claim of audibility again into play... what we should really questioning is if the whole concept of audibility threshold is actually true... maybe we cant hear the noise itself... but what if this noise is actually shaping the "audible" stuff we are hearing in a way where it could explain differences heard?
@@dornauge1995 "The noise floor?" That will be present in the audio signal. Why doesn't Danny show the effects on the noise floor of the actual audio signal of a component using one of his power cords?
Amir, I am so happy to have found your channel. I am an EE, and I have faced these questions from audio-fools in the past. They do not accept explanations. They enjoy spending money on crap - just for the 'look what I have', my system is better than yours kind of BS. So now I can send them to you - excellent work. Thanks. Unfortunately in this specific case I am embarrassed since my name is Dan, mom called me Danny,.... LOL
Actually, he's apparently pretty competent at passive speaker system design and room treatment -- beyond that, he's as ignorant as the average audiophool and/or a snake oil monger.
Going to give a story it was years ago but a guy made a video talking about HDMI cables. I think this person actually worked at Best Buy at the time and monster the company monster cables came and showed them a $70 HDMI cable and a $700 HDMI cable, he asked around I think 25 employees that were at the meeting. What do you think? The difference between these two cables actually is guess what the monster cable representative admitted there was zero actual difference between both sets of cables. He then looked at everyone and said, so why do you think we have a $700 cable he said it is simply the market people who spend 56 $7000 on a TV. Don't believe that a $70 cable can give them a proper signal so they will spend $700 on a cable thinking it gives them a better picture all this to point out that even a monster cable representative admitted zero difference between the two cables other than the aesthetic looks of the cable, but because people simply believe in their own minds, that's why the expensive product existed
Love this channel. If what you find is what you find then that is it. If what you find is not good then , to me the manufacturer of what ever product you tested should then want to address the issues you have found . Been into music , playing , recording ,building , installing rigs, and trying all things to make them better over the years .Unfortunately, in every price point, there are a lot of BS claims about everything. Please , he doesn't listen to his end products did I hear that correct.
Psycho-acoustics is rampant in High-End audio. Vendors use it to legitimize manufacturing and pushing ridiculous products on to (hopefully rich...) unsuspecting audio lovers, many of which have been made to believe they can hear "a difference" while in fact it is all inside their gullible heads. To me it is fraud, plain and simple. Please PLEASE keep doing these kinds of video's Amir
"Your system's not resolving enough" (come buy my shitty, 25 year old capacitors), to "wow! It made a difference on my $299 budget streamer " . Yeah, you nailed that dichotomy perfectly. Danny is full of shit, and I discovered this as an early audiophile, via experience with GR. My first speaker was a GR Mod, still have it, several speaker and wire tours, and realizing none of the claims made any sense and his speakers weren't even that great.
Yep, much more comfortable to think others can't hear the difference because of their bad system or hearing, than realizing that the cables make zero difference and not only did you waste your time, money and energy, but you made a complete fool of yourself.. I couldn't do it myself, but amazing how so many prefer to live in delusion rather than reality. Many parallels to be drawn.
@@literalghost929 you are just as stuborn as you say these "audiophiles" are, kinda funny but i understand that its easier to rely on what can actually be measured, we shouldnt question the audibility of differences but actually of measurements showing differences with the claim of "audible threshold" to get maybe one step closer to the truth
@@dornauge1995 How am I stubborn? Show me reliable evidence or give me reasonable information about how power cables can make a difference and I'll change my beliefs. It's been proven that the cable has no effect on the audio signal. What more do you want? The content of the CD is reproduced with 100% accuracy. Perfect. Identical with both cables.
@@dornauge1995 You are basically arguing that non-scientific views should be given the exact same credibility as scientific views. Do you even know a single thing about human history?
this has become the new cancer of our lives, people (barely) making unsubstantiated claims with little to no technical training. The second we got the internet which provided a stage for idiots with a voice, they all began spouting their ignorant views albeit with the arrogance of a narcissist Thank you Amir
Danny should stick to what he does best, flattening out the response of a speaker. And he even screws some of that up by not taking what the off axis does to compensate for the on axis one (i.e Focal Aria 906), but he mainly does a good job out of it.
Great work! The industry needs you to keep dubious salesmen honest. Or at least expose their lies as they still seem to have no qualms about lying even in the face of evidence.
Yo amir, no apologies. Your job may have started as review, however you have become the one guy that can prove all this crap wrong. I have known this, but am in no position to do the testing as you. I thank you. The whole community loves your ass. We've needed you for years.
@Jeremy
So that others won't waste their money on expensive stuff that does nothing.
yes fantastic life improvement.
Let’s see if I have this right: Danny thinks that your ultra sensitive equipment is incapable of measuring the difference his cable can make but anybody who spends 300+ dollars on his crap cable and spends 200+ hours burning it in will then hear such an improvement that for many it will result in an eargasm.
Amir, I appreciate you holding these charlatans feet to the fire!
It's really funny to think a power cable would make a difference when the speaker terminals or the spade connectors of the drivers inside a speaker cost a cent to make...
The copper in my AC cables was burned in 4.5 billion years ago as the earth was forming.
:)
Ah, that's beautiful.
doesnt matter since the copper gets casted again and a new crystalstructure forms, also its not clear if the dialetric actually plays a role here as danny has stated
Classic. Look, even that's hard to sell to some people, though. Aren't there a group of believers in the earth being 6,000 years old. Maybe they need to burn in their copper cables because of the shorter history.
😂😂🤣🤣
Hilarious how people who don't fall for snake oil cables are called "flat earthers" because they believe in science, and not magical cables.
lucky for Danny irony does not cause physical harm
Uhh snake oil is the legitimate article and still in use today. Hilarious how people embarrass themselves commenting on this channel while claiming to know science. SMH
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Pretty ironic on your part. "legitimate snake oil" A little wikipedia primer on the subject. "Snake oil is a term used to describe deceptive marketing, health care fraud, or a scam. Similarly, snake oil salesman is a common label used to describe someone who sells, promotes, or is a general proponent of some valueless or fraudulent cure, remedy, or solution.[1] The term comes from the "snake oil" that used to be sold as a cure-all elixir for many kinds of physiological problems. Many 19th-century United States and 18th-century European entrepreneurs advertised and sold mineral oil (often mixed with various active and inactive household herbs, spices, drugs, and compounds, but containing no snake-derived substances whatsoever) as "snake oil liniment", making claims about its efficacy as a panacea. Patent medicines that claimed to be a panacea were extremely common from the 18th century until the 20th, particularly among vendors masking addictive drugs such as cocaine, amphetamine, alcohol, and opium-based concoctions or elixirs, to be sold at medicine shows as medication or products promoting health."
@@Jeremy-he3ch If they are real they will be heard in a DBT and yet the mere mention of DBTs is like holding a cross up to a vampire. It's pretty telling.
@Jeremy
Let me guess ... you got that from some cable maker's website... didn't you?
Seriously ... most real engineers are aware of these issues and their circuit designs will guard against them. Were it otherwise, there would be mass complaints from their customer base at large and THAT would be well reported.
It’s a shame that this sort of behaviour is so common in the audio world.
Too many lies and shady practices equating to pay checks. Thank you as always for exposing the horse shit.
It wouldn't work if not so many so-called audiophiles would believe in things which don't exist. I am sure Danny will come up with a reason why the rope in that cable makes an electric difference. Yeah, sure...
horse shit can be good fertiliser
its the same behavior in churches
I can imagine a scenario: A guy uses 1000 dollars to a new power cable. He invites his friend over and puts the music on with a big grin on the face, hiding the secret. Surely they'll be blown away by the huge improvement 🤣 Nobody notices...
@@dingdong2103 Thats why the placebo is always a personal effect. For the friend to notice they must first be menially converted with mysticism and gaslighting.
You are an honest man Amir. You do this as a hobby to expose the truth. You want nothing from anyone. You sir stopped me from going down the Audiophile rabbit hole. Just enjoy your music!!
the term audiophile has been hijacked; it means "A person having an ardent interest in stereo or high-fidelity sound reproduction.", what you're describing is an audiofool!
@Jeremy I earned my college degree by listening to instruction from educated, experienced teachers of that field. Does that not make me not smart enough. Your argument is not smart... You take the information, test it for yourself with the given data, and wow, his scientific measurements are a thing.
@Jeremy so you’re saying only trusting your subjectivity makes you a smart guy?
@@HeliBenj Subjectivity as in measurements; what is commonly known as proof and evidence? I'm pretty sure you've confused subjectivity for objectivity.
@Ben You probably own a power conditioner, dac antivibration feet, and cable risers, huh? Lol
For what it's worth at least Danny provides great comedy.
Thank you for the laughs Danny.
Yeah, have you noticed how his measurements always show a gigantic frequency dip in the crossover region of the speaker in question ? Of course, there is often such a dip but he uses an exagerated vertical scale to make all speakers (except his own , and his modded variants, no doubt) look much worse than they oftren are.
This is why most companies don’t respond when they have a product that isn’t as advertised. You just keep the bad press going. Thanks for the info Amir
Same people claim that tubes and vinyl records have character but pay $400 to reduce some unmeasurable noise.
Haha your comment is so on point
Exactly lol
@@Jeremy-he3ch most analog media has some amount of noise in the background, this is mostly part of the charm/signature of the media and not looked at as a negative but god forbid some undetectable amount of noise sneaks in via power cord.
@Jeremy True, tubes are objectively worse than solid state. But I have read about some engineers not being able to tell the master tape apart from the LP (I think Stereophile said exactly that in a review when using the Shure V-15 Type III or IV?) but the CD part sounds like bull
I'm actually impressed by the audiophile community ... so much highly detailed science that only exists in their group. It's straight up amazing!
Danny is such a snake oil salesman. Amir absolutely destroyed him in this.
Danny is not alone in this. As much as I like him, Paul McGowan at PS Audio is guilty of the same nonsense. Power cables do not carry audio signals!
Power cables can make a difference. Why don’t you test it for yourself instead of relying on these UA-camrs. I have.
@@Simplyveej lol
@@Simplyveej Guys! We got one!
@@DasAntiNaziBroetchen Flat earther, it isn’t hard to test. I tried two different power cables on my Sony TV, and the difference in video quality was very obvious. One caused a grainy picture, and the other was much clearer. Nothing subjective about it. Any reason why power cables cause a difference in video but not audio? Let’s just start there.
Amir, you are the most important guy in the audio business. Thanks to you all, this snake oil producers will hopefully upgrade their products or disappear from the market.
yes, absolutely, the most important man in the audioworld!
Amir, you are a myth :-) . I'm an electronic engineer passionate for hi-fi and music and I LOVE when you debunk these crooks who sell equipment costing hundreds/thousands of dollars without giving any technical reasons or tangible results... the problem is that, even in hi-fi field (as in other hobbies like luxury watches or collecting art), there are too many people with lots of money to spend and few technical skills to be able to evaluate what is really good and what I smoke... keep it up, thanks for your work!
They literally ARE crooks.
great discovery @@fwabble
‘Myth’, no. ‘Marvel’, YES 🤗
nope he is just horrible ! banning people from the ASR forum anyone who disagrees w/ him he calls a troll and ban them he is just a cancelling creep ! like a Nazi !
Of you think of it... Those rich people kind got their money on the back of some other people. Scolding them snake oil for good money is a way of redistributing it. I would not cry for those rich dumb people, but I would fight for a good and argumented scientific proof.
I challenged Danny to do a DBT of his power cables. He was quick to accept. But it became quite clear after some back and forth that he was not willing to do an actual DBT and was trying to set up a rigged test that would allow him to cheat. Danny isn't a true believer. He's a fraud.
can you elaborate on what you think he was trying to do?
@@MikeDawson1 sure. He was insisting that a DBT was impossible and that the cables HAD to be physically swapped out. I told him that it would be easy to design a test where the cables would not need to be swapped out. He insisted that ANY switching device would induce noise. So from there I asked him to tell me what system he was planning to use and where in the system he wanted to test the power cords. He refused to answer that. I suspect he refused to answer that to avoid me designing a test using his system that would avoid physical cable swaps. I asked him for evidence that every switching device would induce noise. He refused to respond to that. I asked him how a switching device would mask the benefits of his power cord? he refused to answer that. I asked him if he understood that every preamp was in effect a switching device and did he warn his customers that use preamps in their systems that the benefits of his power cords would be masked by their preamps. At this point he resorted to ad hominem retorts with no responses to any of my questions and points. It became quite clear that he was not willing to do any "blind" listening test that he did not fully control and did not have a physical cable swap.
I wonder if he’s truly being intentionally deceptive or whether it’s the sort of cognitive dissonance taking over when one asks an awkward questions to a religious person which point out the faults in their position. Not necessarily deliberate but faulty epistemology.
@@scottwheeler2679 Obviously, if Danny thinks all cables have a sound then he's going to think a switching device is going to have an enormous effect. I don't necessarily agree, but I believe Danny completely believes what he says, and I also think you're being obtuse about it.
@@bwiz6514 Then shouldn't he be warning all of his customers that a preamp will erase any benefits his power cords have? A preamp IS a switching device. Oooor do you think he is very quick to tell his customers just how much his power cords will help improve the sound of their systems when used on their preamps?
The obvious solution to his demand to physically swap out power cables would be to use a preamp to do the switching. Of course he refused to disclose what the system would actually be which prevented me from offering any such solutions to what he claims was an unsolvable problem.
I don't think he believes any of his B.S. If he did why would he refuse to even disclose the system he was planning to use?
First rate, objective analysis. Thank you, Amir.
Thanks for the follow up. I am very glad you are around to speak real scientific process!
I recently purchased one of these cables, used, om EBay for the bargain price of $299! I like buying used cables, saves me having to wait for them to ‘burn in’!!! I connected it between the wall mains outlet and my ‘ultra high end’, ‘world class’, ‘reference’, ‘class leading’, ‘statement’, ‘hybrid’ ‘benchmark’ power amp. Honestly??? The difference it made was phenomenal. Mot ‘night and day’, no, ‘summer and winter’. The soundstage did not extend beyond my speakers, it extended beyond the room. The bass gained heft, vut retained tight and textured. The mid range became detailed and full of body. The high frequency became so smooth and polite, I couldn’t here them. I was so impressed, I used it to power my washing machine . Again, the difference wads incredible. Spin speedincreased to 1800rpm but was incredibly smooth. The machine no longer danced around the utility room, but I tribute that to the cable’s tethering qualities, not it!s electrical properties. The caveat is that my teenage daughter used to enjoy sitting astride the machine when it reached full spin speed. That damned cable has denied her that basic, primal pleasure. So, I’ve reverted to more affordable Woolworth’s basic range of mains cables. $1.99 for a pack of 3!
I really like the argument that the company should do the "burn in" if they are going to sell a cable for a lot of money.
Before I encountered ASR, I was clueless.
Good job Amir exposing those charlatans. We need more people like you fighting the spread of BS on YT
Great video Amir, I consider myself a HiFi enthusiast and made my living in the late 80's and 90's as high end audio bench technician. I then worked in high end custom residential AV integration till present. I have tested, repaired,installed and heard everything. The audio review journalist have such a way with words, it's almost like pornography for the ear. The way they describe sound is an art form, I think people can get caught up especially people who are not experienced listeners and long to hear what's being described.These people become vulnerable and began to chase ghost with money buying all the snake oil.
GR is a proficent snake oil chemist.
I recently got into the audio hobby and coming from more technical hobbies, I was amazed by how subjective and poetic the descriptions and comparisons in a lot of reviews were. Almost nobody seems to do actual measurements, with some at best adding a frequency response chart
Amir, you are a treasure to the music community. I mean the whole community, because the less people spend on ridiculous junk like power cords (power cords!), the more they can spend on buying music. As a recording engineer and musician, I salute you.
Amir you have given GR invaluable advice freely to help GR grow and add integrity to their company. Thank you.
GR Research? Integrity? 😂
that would likely mean bankruptcy for them.. lol
@Jeremy Yes, that one.
Alex Jones too sells snake oil, genius club!
Love it! I recently purchased a set of Magnepan .7 speakers and have been starting to do battle, on the user groups, with advocates, swearing “A HUGE IMPROVEMENT” by simply replacing the fuse with a large gauge silver wire. ~7AWG. “Like lifting a blanket off of the speakers” “I don’t care if I blow the tweeters and have to replace them every year”.
Danny needs to watch this movie for 200 hours to understand it😂
There is this guy going by the name "Jay" who is beginning to kiss Danny's arse. A bunch of clowns we have these days who just want to go with the flow. Thanks for clearing this up Amir.
@@Jeremy-he3ch He's been going behind Jay's system and sorting out the jumble of his cables etc...
Thanks for the response, your points are very well laid out and the way they were presented easy to understand. Love that you take a good hard look at these products. I find it interesting that GR Research customers are very quick to defend Danny and his products. So, I think there is something to what he is doing. Therefore, I do not think Danny is actually the issue. To me he is somebody that is trying to make a buck some of what he offers is legit other stuff not so much. What concerns me, is a wider issue of healthy skepticism and critical thinking in our culture/hobby is not readily practiced. In my interaction with fans of GR Research they all swear up and down, how satisfied they are and enjoy the sounds of the speaker mods they purchased. If that is the case no beef here, enjoy.
Yet no one could give me a reason to believe that their glowing experience was nothing but confirmation bias. No one reported an experience where a stock unit and modified unit was compared/contrasted side by side. Not looking for a customer to conduct an irrefutable statistically verifiable double-blind test with a control group here, but at least try and confirm for yourself that the changes you are making to your investment actually has an audible impact for the better, over just blind faith in the mods alone.
yes would be useful to learn to use our own ears
Well done Amir. Personally I find it very difficult to engage with the sort of bad-faith arguments that plague 'high-end' audio. Snake-oil salesmen like this are a disease that's been fostered by magical thinking.
That GR guy tried to be "relevant" on youtube, but alienated pretty much everybody in short order. His criteria for being a "legitimate" reviewer is someone who can hear differences in cables! So he values all opinions as long as they are his!
I agree. He really had something good going for a while explaining crossovers, speakers in general, etc. But then got into selling useless tweaks with a straight face, losing some of the very people who liked him originally. Just lacks common sense on that front.
@@AudioScienceReview True. He seems to have legitimate knowledge and skill. I don't doubt that. But then there's the speaker cable thing, and his famous attempt at gatekeeping the audio review hobby!
Amir should hold an Awards Show for Audio Snake Oil Slimeball Salesperson of the year and Audio Snake Oil products of the year...you would have plenty to choose from...😊
YES BEST PROPOSITION EVER, A SNAKE Oil TROPHY CLUB, with music and on stage announcements, followed by a audioechnomeasurement award given out by the snake guys.
i believe scientific audiophile guy would or has essentially done this lol
I was considering them last year when I was looking at his speaker kits. After looking at several companies I ended up with going with a pair of CSS that I believe you tested and recommended. Once you go the snake oil route, all your other products become suspect. Once again, thank you for this work.
I discovered your channel today, watched multiple videos and you saved me tons of money... Thank you so much for what you do.
Best thing you can do is learn to listen, it takes practice . Im thinking of posting a series of videos on the subject.
Danny : "Amir's super sensitive equipment can't measure the improvment of my audio cable !"
Also Danny "My 300$ cable will audibly change your audio experience trust me bro !"
You and Ethan Winer are both a breath of fresh air. Thanks.
Perhaps I missed it, but it's likely that had you tested the "ultra-cryogenically treated" power cable, you would have been blown away by the sonic bliss and the incredible measurements...
I recently ultra-cryogenically treated my mattress bed springs, I feel to sleep better now, although it's only a slight difference.
Ever since Danny called out the community saying we dont know what sounds good i stopped watching him and NRD.
interesting.. what does the nrd guy have to do w gr guy? just curious; i can’t tell how to feel about the nrd guy, seems he’s trying to placate both science minded ppl and flat earf ppl maybe lol not sure.
The placebo effect, in my opinion, is a force that we often underestimate but should not overlook.
The reason I find the placebo effect so fascinating is that it is deeply rooted in the fundamental workings of our brains. Think about how many times we have complimented friends or family simply to uplift their spirits. Surprisingly, even if we know that the compliments are not entirely true, they can still have a positive impact. This demonstrates the immense power of the placebo effect.
In the realm of audio, we encounter similar situations. For instance, if someone asserts that cable A is superior to cable B, our initial skepticism may arise. However, our brains tend to bias us towards confirming that statement as true, even if we harbor doubts. This cognitive bias is a product of the placebo effect at play.
To counteract the influence of the placebo effect, measurements are the only way to remove this bias . While measurements may not always be perfect and can occasionally miss certain nuances, they remain the most reliable method to confirm facts. By relying on measurements, we a introduce a high level of objectivity into our evaluations and ensure that our judgments are grounded in tangible evidence.
without measurements , anything anyone tells you at any time will have an affect on your thoughts and ideas, without proof the effect on you mind is in effect a placebo until proven.
having paid several hundred or thousands of dollars for something really really helps with this effect. You are "totally invested" at that point. You need it to be better!
@Jeremy It's called "it better sound better cos if the wife finds out how much I spent on a bit of wire, I'm a dead man!"
Good quality cables are all you need. The difference is negligible going up the chain, and a rip-off.
Excellent video Amir! You have shown conclusively that, like so many people in the hi-fi industry, Danny regularly engages in bad faith arguments. I have no patience for these people anymore.
My patience run out as well, now I am on my own and shop and listen with my own ears.
its about time, people need this! Take for an example in motorsport engineering there are many high performance components well engineered. They are still rigorously tested for safety and performance without all the "claims" from manufactures. But at the end of the day when all is accounted for there is a simple stop watch and lap times. You are the stop watch here and I thank you.
“ A fool and his money are soon parted “ that’s the mantra of high end cable gurus ,magic isolating pucks , shakti stones and cable jacket peddlers
Thanks Amir. Love the work that you do. I admire that you have the patience and dedication to accurately measure and test something that is clearly nonsense.
Good job! In my opinion, ALL the "audiophile" power cables fall in the same mysterious magical world of performance. GR is just trying to get a chunk of the cable pie. I have the Nuprime Evolution DAC 2/Preamp, and the Evolution STA power amplifier, THD+ N .0005%, SNR over 110db, do you think it needs a $500 or $10,000 power cord to net any improvement? or sound better? The Evolution is very well designed, with high quality components, circuitry, internal power supply, and is dead silent. Stock power cord, no hocus pocus power conditioner! Spend your $$ on quality components, sit back and let the music flow! 👍👍
Common Audio Myths
I thought cables didn’t matter, so I tried running my system without them. Huge
difference!
-Posted in a hi-fi audio forum
Amir, in a recent video Danny said they are now freezing their power cables and it makes a big difference in the sound quality. Maybe the reason you didn't hear any difference is because you used an unfrozen cable? Also, maybe your headphones should be frozen so you will finally be able to hear differences in power cables. For that matter, maybe your spectrum analyzer should be frozen as well so it will be able to detect signal differences that it is currenly missing?
Well and their cables cost probably 200$ more 😂
:) You are on to something. Maybe all the people who hear the differences live in very cold places and keep their audio gear outdoors!!!
If Danny can hear a difference, then the difference must be real - even if nobody else can hear or measure a difference. You guys just don't have the highly trained ears that Danny has. 😂😂😂😂😂 @@AudioScienceReview
If you haven't heard a frozen cable you haven't lived.
So should we let them defrost first or are they better sounding when kept frozen?
Hi Amir, just discovered your channel and being a believer in the impact of cables (and all components in the chain) your null-test really was an eyeopener! As you say, there is no disputing the results of such a test.
One thing that would be really educational to see: a scenario where the null-tests actually gives an audible result. That is, if you change a cable, a component etc. and the null tests actually shows a difference. Maybe not so much related to this video but as really good input on how to show what actually improves/changes the sound and what does not. Just an idea 😊
Anyway, thank you for bringing more logic and science to the audiophile domain.
Hi there. Good suggestion. It is always good to have a positive control. Will consider it next time I do a cable review.
Russ Andrews were taken to court many years ago because they couldn't prove their cables worked. but go away with it by saying prove they don't work .
Danny is one of audio's entertainers. That's what he really gets paid for. It's not his fault that some folks take him seriously.
Perfect!
Making potentially dangerous mains leads is serious, there's a reason why electrical stuff have a UL listing!
Thank you for all you do. If these people were selling a $25 nice looking cable, who would care. There are so many con-men.
Unfortunately, science is powerless compared to the lies of greed!
Huge respect for sharing your knowledge!
Very well stated. It is so difficult to convince someone of a fact when their response is “but I know”. In this instance it is “but I can hear”, but the point is the same. And yes, the “flat earthers” are those that “believe” or “know” or “hear” but offer no proof, not those that use scientifically obtained data as proof.
@Jeremy Jeremy. I really don’t want to get into with someone who wants to believe as oppose to measure. But as to my dealing with circuits, I’m a retired EE with experience in everything from controls to 132k volts. I’ve worked in many industrial plants and seen the sun come up in everyone helping electricians troubleshoot a problem. My now expired PE license didn’t make me an expert in anything but it did give an indication of my willingness to search for an answer be it from literature are experts in the field. My natural tendency is too strongly question people’s arguments when they use the phrase “it’s common knowledge” as proofs of their argument. After all, like the mechanic at one repair shop said, “it’s common knowledge” that GM developed a carburetor that could get 100 miles to the gallon but the oil companies purchased the patent to keep it off the market. Everyone knows it’s common knowledge.
Thanks, Amir!
Keep holding his feet to the fire.
I've also had a "discussion" in the past with Danny resulting in a very similar outcome. "His words" against my copied reviews of his new, expensive, small single driver speakers versus copied reviews of the following: Anthony Gallo A'Diva SE's, which are better, (audiophile) small single driver speakers for much less money.
HA I also use the Gallo A Dive SE. Great sound
It would be very entertaining as well to measure some $10,000+ speaker cables from established cable companies. If someone who bought them would have the guts and honesty to send them to ASR for measurements:).
It is the Emperor’s new clothes: Only the anointed audiophiles can hear the difference!
Don’t think the two camps will ever see eye to eye. Why not go visit GR like Danny’s always offering? Then you two can agree to what you hear.
What would come out of a visit??? He can move the needled by conducting a controlled test on half a dozen local audiophiles and show us the video. What he has done is a PR stunt. Don't fall for it. Ask for evidence that doesn't require me to flying to his place for no reason.
@@AudioScienceReview but wouldn’t be as powerful as you visiting. Just do it. That video would garner a million views. Plus, would be good to see people with opposing views come together, even if to agree to disagree.
@@MiloPrager I get it more than most. But I’m an electrical engineer who actually designs circuits for a living as my day job. I’m not here to debate science, as I don’t think many are equipped to do that. I would simply like to see if Amir can hear what Danny states, maybe while having a cold one. Then they can agree to disagree and move on with life. Sounds like you took my point somewhere completely different.
The only reason I buy some power cord is just to have a bit nicer cord. I really like to have nice and tidy speaker connections and nice power cord is just aesthetic addition. Second reason is that I can choose lenght, and use just 0,5m long instead of long default power cord.
But to say that I hear any difference would be wrong. It is there just to satisfy my ocd need and have a nice power cord.
Edit: I usually spend some 20-30$ on that and it looks and works great.
Yep as nice gear jewelry that's why I have some. Same for replacing the jumper plates on the speakers. I like the looks but I won't pay a lot for looks. Just a little money for decent looks and quality
I knew I was on to something, when as a child I made an audio device by stretching a rope between two tin cans. It's shocking to learn I could have sold my invention to some audiophiles for hundreds of dollars!
True and false. You could sell it to an audiophile but only for thousands. Two zeros does not inspire blind belief. Three or more and kaboom!
Danny shot himself in the foot. Some years ago, I was thinking about buying some of his speakers. At that time, I thought what he explained about the speakers made sense. And then he published some crazy videos about testing speaker cables on an antenna input. That was the moment that I realized the guy is crazy and there is no point buying anything from such a guy.
Thank you, Danny, for exposing yourself.
And thank you Amir for making us laugh.
I too liked his early videos talking about crossovers and such. As you, it did not take long to see his other side which run completely counter to his measurement focused speaker/crossover work.
Interesting - can someone be really good at doing something, say like being the President of the US, and then, be completely useless and broken in his personal life? I’ve seen that happen multiple times. Danny is an excellent DIY speaker designer who puts a good product out for a budget price. Is he out there on some of this other stuff? Yep. But to throw the baby out with the bath water is ignorance and intolerance at its finest.
@@jon1810 Crossovers and cables are based on the same science. You can't be good in crossovers (and wires between parts and wires to the drivers) and at the same time an idiot about cables. Danny shows measurements for his work on his crossovers. But for cables no measurements. That makes no sense at all!
@@edgar9651 You are not correct there. Designing a crossover is all about science through measurement. Now - if you’re saying that the parts and wires being used after the science is conducted make no difference, ok then (cheap parts or “cheese” as Danny calls it vs. Premium parts). He still does design the crossover the correct way with measurements (unlike the guys who do it “all by ear”)
Very, very well said! Danny is getting so much attention, like Paul from Ps Audio, that EVERYTHING they say, so many people take that for granted! Not even asking...he has good stuff, but it doesnt mean he knows everything. But as many in social media, as soon you get to the point of many YT-groupies/followers, they get the usual star-effect/arrogance !!
I find it hilarious how he starts the video saying "A company called GR Research ( AKA Danny Richie) and the Company (AKA Danny Richie) made a video responding to that...." 🤣🤣
This has caused me not to want to listen to GR research. I thought of taking my speakers to him for measurement. I restored them myself and would love see what the outcome was. They sound good to me. Thank You
This clown Danny is the guy who also said that using tinker toys as cable risers improved the sound.
because it does... tho you can easly DIY something, no need for 3000€ cable raisers
Obviously Danny is a religious guy.
It's a matter of faith! 😂😂😂
@@dornauge1995
@@dornauge1995Because IT DOES
@@dilbyjones fools... ua-cam.com/video/6HZ1C_9o3gU/v-deo.html
Our species lived for over 150,000 years in explicit ignorance, but we changed behavior rather suddenly some 15,000 years ago. From the written word, about 6,000 years ago, came several thousand years of limited advancement, more in mathematics than most anything else. 2,300 years ago, in an ancient Greek classroom, there was a demonstration (probably not the first) of a "sealed teapot" device that gently spun when turning heat into mechanical energy, and at that moment everything required to understand the simple engineering of steam engine power was demonstrated. Yet, zero advancement on that science is documented for at least 1800 years.
Then, the scientific method was formalized and practiced. After 1800 years of relative stagnation, following the use of the scientific method, it took only 300 years to reach steam engine technology.
That method can be comically said, "If you can't prove what you claim, your probably made it up."
Here we see an example of that concept.
I built and ran professional recording studios, after starting out in hifi when it was objective. My degree is in psychology. It has been clear to me for over 30 years of dealing with subjective hifi people that the key to this sort of delusion lies in the psychology of hearing - and/or sales!
Some things cannot B explained by scientific measuring devices.. This is a truism... Freud's classic "The Uncanny" proves this... I have suggested Amir read this... He hasn't..
@@matthewtaylor7355 I agree with Amir but to be fair you can hear things that can not be measured.
Thank you for another amusing episode of "Danny Says" 😁. And cheers for the remark on the burnin. Already forgot about it. Adam burns in all their higher end monitor speakers infactory (think with speakers it actually makes sense). With such high prices Im not gonna to do it myself, waste energy for 200+ hours lol.
The most astounding thing about audiophile community is - that they buy amps,dacs,headphones etc that are engineered, designed and made in factories by the help of audio engineering in other word, “science” and then refute science by saying things can’t be measured and they somehow know better than the engineers/scientists that made them. 😅
Danny is in the business of selling expensive power cords, caveat emptor.
The only important thing is what comes out the audio XLRs (or rca). I 'upgraded' some equipments PSU and I could clearly measure less noise on the power rails, but guess what? No difference in noise at the XLR outputs! My hard work was pointless, so I never sold it to anybody. 😢 PSRR?
@@Jeremy-he3ch What a stupid comment.
Amir, respect for such a calm and Professional response!
I really appreciate the content. You picked up a lot of things that I would have missed, like "wait a minute, that's how ANC headphones work". Danny uses a lot of pseudoscience that non-engineers struggle to refute.
Now you have done this I hope you can spend the time you do your videos with new reviews of audio components!
Yeh I need to get back to that....
Thanks AMIR, I just subscribed, to many golden ears on UA-cam , I’ve been seriously listening to music since 1976
I also borrowed a lot of expensive amps & cables from a friend with money to burn. Whenever he got tired of a cable I would buy it for a quarter of its original price, I spent hours comparing my inexpensive cables with his & never heard any difference. Moving a listening seat 5 or 6” forward or aft creates more of a difference than any cable, playing pink noise proves the same point.
Speaking of trusting Amir. I just spent all my money on the Matrix Audio X-sabre Pro dac you recommended and I love it. Thanks!
This analysis is a breath of fresh air. Thanks for these "real" tests and measurements.
Thank you Amir for this follow up. It is important to set the record straight. What DR opens here is just embarrassing.
Thanks Amir! Hopefully if you keep pointing out reality more folks will get it and stop buying these ridiculous products!
I'm new to this hobby and I'm finding out that cables don't tweak the sound quality of your system. So, what would be the best tweaks to improve sound quality?
I would also like to see any test data backing up claims that ferrous metal fastening a binding post effects the sound. In New Record Day's test, they used a speaker with both binding posts and tube connectors. This was to enable easy swapping and comparison.
This also means the two binding post nuts were still in the circuit.
I guess one may surmise the ferrous nut mattered AND didn't matter, all at the same time.
Less than an inch from the tube connector path, supposedly made everything OK but going through the wire from the back of the terminal post fastened by the nut was not OK.
I get so tired of RF theory being improperly applied to the audio spectrum at frequencies so low that even skin effect is never a problem.
Yep. But the burden of proof is on Danny. I'm pretty certain they do not make any audible difference. If they did, it would be measurable, and he'd have posted the measurements.
The issue with scammers and charlatans is that not everything they say is false. For instance, the crossover upgrades often seem like genuine improvements; measurements based, FR apparently improved. BUT. Ultra expensive components used, which all may or may not be beneficial, so redesign likely beneficial, but I'm certain you could replace components with normal ones and it wouldn't be pass a DBT.
@@literalghost929 Tube connectors: The most expensive bullet connectors on the planet.
@@Jeremy-he3ch RF is not a consideration in the fastening nut on the back of a speaker's binding terminal.
@@Jeremy-he3ch RF from where ?
My understanding was that a zobel network is to compensate for the reactive load presented when connecting a speaker to the output of an amplifier and therefore prevent the amplifier from oscillating and destroying itself. While it may also filter RF that is not really the purpose nor a concern .
I have a couple of garden hose size cables. I bought them for looks 😅Knowing how thin the wiring is behind the wall, speaker internal wiring, and the IEC of any individual component, it’s silly to think power cables are critical.
@@Jeremy-he3ch All hobbies are a kind of lunacy to a point. It’s actually needed. Audio is a side hobby of mine… the others are boats and cars. There’s even more lunacy there.
I bought some knock-off power cables from Ali Express. Same issue with the pins. Too thick to comfortably plug in. Learned my lesson.
Least they r cheap
Where would we be without Danny. If you ever happen to engage him the guy is a real trip to talk to, that's for sure...
Yeah....he's tripping,he's just a snake oil salesman,looking for any scam to make money
$400 for a 6' power cable when the 100ft behind the outlet is just 12ga Romex 😂😂🤣🤣
I am no expert, but what can cables do to the quality of the signal coming through the line?
Danny will claim that his paint job on your Honda Civic will increase fuel efficiency by 1000 percent and make the turn radius sharper than a Clydesdale
Brilliant, so sick of the tedious snake oil nonsense. Who in hell would do a null test with microphones in a room? There is no way ambient noise would ever be nulled out. The way you did it is the proper way and clearly shows there is no difference between the two cables.
It was moronic quite frankly
what really sickens me is always the claim of "threshold of audibility" .... why show a -94db CD noisefloor? why not actually show the noisefloor of the device? i guess because there would be differences which are masked by the CD noisefloor...
imo amir more often then not rigs his tests like that
for many things where people claim there are differences there are actually measurements showing difference... but then comes the claim of audibility again into play... what we should really questioning is if the whole concept of audibility threshold is actually true... maybe we cant hear the noise itself... but what if this noise is actually shaping the "audible" stuff we are hearing in a way where it could explain differences heard?
@@dornauge1995 "The noise floor?" That will be present in the audio signal. Why doesn't Danny show the effects on the noise floor of the actual audio signal of a component using one of his power cords?
@@dornauge1995 IIRC Amir even showed that this noise floor doesn't shape jack shit. My god you people.
If radio interference is a problem for an audio component how is it going to handle the 120V sine wave?
If you raise it on a power cable lifter “wood tinker toys” it sounds even better
Indeed. Next they will say that red tinker toys sound warmer than blue ones when used that way!
Thank you for the work that you do Amir! It's a shame because Danny is a talented speaker designer, so sad that he hawks these bogus cables....
How do we know he is a talented speaker designer? We can say he apparently is a successful speaker designer in terms of sales and marketing. Thanks!
Amir, I am so happy to have found your channel. I am an EE, and I have faced these questions from audio-fools in the past. They do not accept explanations. They enjoy spending money on crap - just for the 'look what I have', my system is better than yours kind of BS. So now I can send them to you - excellent work. Thanks.
Unfortunately in this specific case I am embarrassed since my name is Dan,
mom called me Danny,.... LOL
Amir, Loved the presentation. Thank you!
This Danny person is not properly educated neither in electrical engineering nor acoustics. Why does he have ANY credence.
Actually, he's apparently pretty competent at passive speaker system design and room treatment -- beyond that, he's as ignorant as the average audiophool and/or a snake oil monger.
I don't see how any power cable can change anything in an audio signal unless it has insufficient wire size.
Going to give a story it was years ago but a guy made a video talking about HDMI cables. I think this person actually worked at Best Buy at the time and monster the company monster cables came and showed them a $70 HDMI cable and a $700 HDMI cable, he asked around I think 25 employees that were at the meeting. What do you think? The difference between these two cables actually is guess what the monster cable representative admitted there was zero actual difference between both sets of cables. He then looked at everyone and said, so why do you think we have a $700 cable he said it is simply the market people who spend 56 $7000 on a TV. Don't believe that a $70 cable can give them a proper signal so they will spend $700 on a cable thinking it gives them a better picture all this to point out that even a monster cable representative admitted zero difference between the two cables other than the aesthetic looks of the cable, but because people simply believe in their own minds, that's why the expensive product existed
Love this channel.
If what you find is what you find then that is it. If what you find is not good then , to me the manufacturer of what ever product you tested should then want to address the issues you have found .
Been into music , playing , recording ,building , installing rigs, and trying all things to make them better over the years .Unfortunately, in every price point, there are a lot of BS claims about everything.
Please , he doesn't listen to his end products did I hear that correct.
yes you heard that correctly. He doesn't need to cause he already knows what it will sound like. His words not mine.
Psycho-acoustics is rampant in High-End audio. Vendors use it to legitimize manufacturing and pushing ridiculous products on to (hopefully rich...) unsuspecting audio lovers, many of which have been made to believe they can hear "a difference" while in fact it is all inside their gullible heads.
To me it is fraud, plain and simple.
Please PLEASE keep doing these kinds of video's Amir
"Your system's not resolving enough" (come buy my shitty, 25 year old capacitors), to "wow! It made a difference on my $299 budget streamer " . Yeah, you nailed that dichotomy perfectly. Danny is full of shit, and I discovered this as an early audiophile, via experience with GR. My first speaker was a GR Mod, still have it, several speaker and wire tours, and realizing none of the claims made any sense and his speakers weren't even that great.
What about his speaker connectors? I was suspect
A very expensive cable HAS to sound better, otherwise you would have to admit to yourself that you were ripped off.
Yep, much more comfortable to think others can't hear the difference because of their bad system or hearing, than realizing that the cables make zero difference and not only did you waste your time, money and energy, but you made a complete fool of yourself.. I couldn't do it myself, but amazing how so many prefer to live in delusion rather than reality. Many parallels to be drawn.
@@literalghost929 you are just as stuborn as you say these "audiophiles" are, kinda funny but i understand that its easier to rely on what can actually be measured, we shouldnt question the audibility of differences but actually of measurements showing differences with the claim of "audible threshold" to get maybe one step closer to the truth
@@dornauge1995 How am I stubborn? Show me reliable evidence or give me reasonable information about how power cables can make a difference and I'll change my beliefs.
It's been proven that the cable has no effect on the audio signal. What more do you want? The content of the CD is reproduced with 100% accuracy. Perfect. Identical with both cables.
@@dornauge1995 You are basically arguing that non-scientific views should be given the exact same credibility as scientific views. Do you even know a single thing about human history?
High voltage? No UL/UR/ETL checks to make sure it's safe? Sounds like equipment for the pool!
this has become the new cancer of our lives, people (barely) making unsubstantiated claims with little to no technical training.
The second we got the internet which provided a stage for idiots with a voice, they all began spouting their ignorant views albeit with the arrogance of a narcissist
Thank you Amir
Danny should stick to what he does best, flattening out the response of a speaker. And he even screws some of that up by not taking what the off axis does to compensate for the on axis one (i.e Focal Aria 906), but he mainly does a good job out of it.
Funny how Danny relies strictly on measurements for speaker mods but for cables you have to take his word for it!
Great work! The industry needs you to keep dubious salesmen honest. Or at least expose their lies as they still seem to have no qualms about lying even in the face of evidence.