when it comes to referencing and mixing the key thing to understand is the difference in levels... one thing that I personally do is that when I use a "commercial" track that is out as a reference to any song or genre that I intend to mix is that with the "commercial track" I will lower the levels by around -10db that way I can at least reference at that level to try and work my gain stage in that respect.. as well as listen to the placement of instrumentation and vocals in the stereo field. You generally would not reference a mastered commercial song at full level to a mix that you are working on in a daw primarily due to the differences in gain stage and levels so again turning down the level of a mastered commercial track by -10db will give you probably the best reference to work with.
I use references all the time - as Dave said, not to copy a song, or even to clone the exact parameters of a mix, but as something to strive for in quality and overall sonics. It may be the way the bass is sitting, or the way it relates to the kick. It could be a certain reverb treatment of a vocal, or it could even be the sonics of a mix as a whole. It's also a good way to hear how mastered and commercially released mixes sound on your own monitoring, in your mixing environment. Choose something that is similar in style to what you are working on, and it will help to guide you - not only towards better mixing, but also to better arranging and recording, too. FWIW
If you're using references to compare your instrumentals whats the best method of doing so? Because if you listen to the song or even a commercialized instrumental, it's already mastered and when you're comparing your mix it wont hold or might misguide you..so is it best to master the instrumental and compare that? (might be a really dumb question lol)
No matter what kind of music I'm working on I always check it against some Steely Dan or Donald Fagen just to check I'm not going too over the top with the bass and drums lol....
This may seem silly, but how long is the duration between your A to B's typically? Do you obsessively A - B during mixing or is it more of an occasional reality check? Love the chan! Seriously you are spreading so much love by helping people make better sounding music. It literally makes the world a better place as it disseminates. Cheers
Using reference mixes with my DAW is something I'm trying for the first time today….for years I've avoided it for fear of copying something about the ref mix or that the ref mix would interrupt the creative flow when I'm really feeling the song that I'm working on. However, you've done a wonderful job of addressing those concerns and showing the advantages of a reference mix - not just for sonic comparisons but for building an arrangement as well. Thanks Dave, john
I *never* use Reference mixes! Why should I want to copy a mix or master of someone else? I mix and master like I want, it's my own sound. Don't mimick or copy others, do your own thing!
I hear what you're saying though, Dave. I'm starting to get into more vocal mixing, so hearing a reference, kinda clears my head on the same level, to compete as you say with the mainstream sound.
Does anyone else use look at their reference mix in a spectrogram? I've found that to be extremely useful, just to see what amazing balance between the frequencies looks like.
As always, thanks Dave!!! Your show is something we have always wished for!! Could you show us how u handle the muddy area between 200-300hz? Would be great! I find myself fighting this area, the mix becomes eather to thin and harsh or it won't cut through and doesnt sound god at a lower level.
Its usually the bass and vocals that can be quite a Challenge. Ok.... that heavy kick and snare too. I want that snare to punch through and that kick not to thump tooooo much
Cool video. The only problem I have with it is that all the music referenced is R&B/Hip-hop, which exhibit similar traits. Would have been more interesting had different genres been presented like modern Country, pop, alt-rock, etc. The mixes that Nigel Godrich does for Radiohead, for example, are completely out of this world. Some vintage stuff would have been cool too.
Dave... I’m new to your channel and just love your perfect “mix” of the technical and philosophical sides of this art & craft... and the relaxed delivery. Well done. I’m definitely a fan, much to learn. Thanks.
Going into the new year I really want to use reference tracks. And I know I'm making it more complex by just not doing it. I'm going to get a couple songs now and focus on referencing all december-Jan
Hey, I got a noob question...but.... What is the difference between cheap and expensive sound cards? How exactly the expensive one will improve my sound? You probbably will answer me - The converters are better on the $ one but what does that mean? Can you give me a demo or a example to hear? Thank you!
Hey Dave, you've mentioned before that modern tracks need more midrange to compete with larger amounts of limiting, but I thought we should typically cut low-mids to avoid muddiness in tracks. How do you deal with these somewhat conflicting scenarios?
You're awesome! brother. We love you Dave! Would you recommend to start a mix with faders all the way down or at "0" and just solo as you bring audio in?
Your videos are so insightful... unfortunately I am at the very basic here. A lot of your language is completely foreign to me. There's so much to learn...
Carlos Perdomo that feeling pretty much stays. I've been doing it for about 15 years and I still feel like a newbie, there's always so much to learn, it can get discouraging actually. Check out recording revolution, it brings you back to the basics
Very helpful. I am going to try this. One of the things I do is search wikipedia for grammy engineering records. Wiki has a whole list of 'em. The I go to iTunes and listen to them for reference. It's fun too!
Did he actually show anything in this though? Lmao a lot of random tips but, from someone as prestigious as him not much taken away from this other than his favorite reference tracks by choice at that time....lmao
My current reference songs: Celebration - Kool & the gang Beyonce - Naughty Girl Baauer - Fire like this Eptic/Carnage - The End Michael Jackson - Liberian Girl Missy Elliot - Pass That dutch Missy Elliot - Loose Control RIhanna - BBHMM Lil Wayne - A Milli Kanye West - Clique Brenda Russell - Piano in the dark Simple Minds - Dont you forget about me A flock of seagulls - I ran i'll stop now.
Richard Cooper Do you know what programs are good for ripping the song (I hate the term ripping but I don't know the current professional term) to open it in a audio track for the daw?
Dave is the shit.
Instablaster
when it comes to referencing and mixing the key thing to understand is the difference in levels... one thing that I personally do is that when I use a "commercial" track that is out as a reference to any song or genre that I intend to mix is that with the "commercial track" I will lower the levels by around -10db that way I can at least reference at that level to try and work my gain stage in that respect.. as well as listen to the placement of instrumentation and vocals in the stereo field. You generally would not reference a mastered commercial song at full level to a mix that you are working on in a daw primarily due to the differences in gain stage and levels so again turning down the level of a mastered commercial track by -10db will give you probably the best reference to work with.
I use references all the time - as Dave said, not to copy a song, or even to clone the exact parameters of a mix, but as something to strive for in quality and overall sonics. It may be the way the bass is sitting, or the way it relates to the kick. It could be a certain reverb treatment of a vocal, or it could even be the sonics of a mix as a whole. It's also a good way to hear how mastered and commercially released mixes sound on your own monitoring, in your mixing environment. Choose something that is similar in style to what you are working on, and it will help to guide you - not only towards better mixing, but also to better arranging and recording, too.
FWIW
If you're using references to compare your instrumentals whats the best method of doing so? Because if you listen to the song or even a commercialized instrumental, it's already mastered and when you're comparing your mix it wont hold or might misguide you..so is it best to master the instrumental and compare that? (might be a really dumb question lol)
appreciate you using dope contemporary tracks. it helps a lot!
Mr. Pensado
I thank you very much for all your teachings. It´s very generous of you and they are all very helpful.
No matter what kind of music I'm working on I always check it against some Steely Dan or Donald Fagen just to check I'm not going too over the top with the bass and drums lol....
This may seem silly, but how long is the duration between your A to B's typically? Do you obsessively A - B during mixing or is it more of an occasional reality check? Love the chan! Seriously you are spreading so much love by helping people make better sounding music. It literally makes the world a better place as it disseminates. Cheers
Always great stuff. Thanks man.
Using reference mixes with my DAW is something I'm trying for the first time today….for years I've avoided it for fear of copying something about the ref mix or that the ref mix would interrupt the creative flow when I'm really feeling the song that I'm working on. However, you've done a wonderful job of addressing those concerns and showing the advantages of a reference mix - not just for sonic comparisons but for building an arrangement as well. Thanks Dave, john
I *never* use Reference mixes! Why should I want to copy a mix or master of someone else? I mix and master like I want, it's my own sound. Don't mimick or copy others, do your own thing!
I hear what you're saying though, Dave. I'm starting to get into more vocal mixing, so hearing a reference, kinda clears my head on the same level, to compete as you say with the mainstream sound.
Does anyone else use look at their reference mix in a spectrogram? I've found that to be extremely useful, just to see what amazing balance between the frequencies looks like.
Man I wish I could love this joint. Almost anything Dave says is golden for all engineers!
As always, thanks Dave!!! Your show is something we have always wished for!! Could you show us how u handle the muddy area between 200-300hz? Would be great! I find myself fighting this area, the mix becomes eather to thin and harsh or it won't cut through and doesnt sound god at a lower level.
Yall listening 2021?
Dave ... Your my hero man . . .
really enjoy watching your vids! lots of knowledge and encouraged experimentation!
THanks
Its usually the bass and vocals that can be quite a
Challenge.
Ok.... that heavy kick and snare too. I want that snare to punch through and that kick not to thump tooooo much
"Metaphoric Competition", Pensado you are the man
Where is a good place to download songs for reference?
"Ebb and flow." It refers to the flow in and out of water, and is used in this context to refer to the dynamics of the song, louder or softer.
All that overly compressed shit o_O
You, Sir, are great!
Thank You, so much, for everything!
“Feelings n emotions are function of basic things”
I find it hilarious how I couldn't tell what deadmau5 song that was lol
Maths maybe?
Animal Rights
You mentioned a mix engineer who does great work with delays...
Jason who?
Jaycen Joshua
Amazing thinking. I'm absolutely synced up to it. Thanks for the great video. Best, Enrico
Thank you for all your great advice. I have been learning so much from you for the last few years. You are a generous gentleman......😆
This may the most honest man in all of music lol
Cool video. The only problem I have with it is that all the music referenced is R&B/Hip-hop, which exhibit similar traits. Would have been more interesting had different genres been presented like modern Country, pop, alt-rock, etc. The mixes that Nigel Godrich does for Radiohead, for example, are completely out of this world. Some vintage stuff would have been cool too.
Dave... I’m new to your channel and just love your perfect “mix” of the technical and philosophical sides of this art & craft... and the relaxed delivery. Well done. I’m definitely a fan, much to learn. Thanks.
Going into the new year I really want to use reference tracks. And I know I'm making it more complex by just not doing it.
I'm going to get a couple songs now and focus on referencing all december-Jan
Hey, I got a noob question...but.... What is the difference between cheap and expensive sound cards? How exactly the expensive one will improve my sound? You probbably will answer me - The converters are better on the $ one but what does that mean? Can you give me a demo or a example to hear? Thank you!
Good stuff Dave. Thanks
Priceless video my friend.
How do you get around the fact that the reference mixes are mostly mastered tracks? Because I find it misleading to reference mastered songs.
Where has this channel been all my life?
oh my god i have so much to learn.
Hey Dave, you've mentioned before that modern tracks need more midrange to compete with larger amounts of limiting, but I thought we should typically cut low-mids to avoid muddiness in tracks. How do you deal with these somewhat conflicting scenarios?
Where do we start from? Spectrum analyzer?
Awesome man. Thank you!
You're awesome! brother. We love you Dave! Would you recommend to start a mix with faders all the way down or at "0" and just solo as you bring audio in?
Awesome video Dave!
Chris brown 2012
+GUTTA HITZ I was about 2 say it... lol
Great info! Thanks Dave! I would like to know the brand name of those reference (Auratone looking) speakers you're using.
5:35 - Lmao thats not Usher man, thats Chris Brown - 2012, produced by Adonis!
That’s exactly what i said lol
Dear Dave, Thank you so much for your great teaching and being master. I am learning a lot of skill but also learn philosophy of mixing.
Dave,,, it would be great to know wich of the mixes you've done are your favourite.. Greetings from Spain!
I can't wait til King Dave puts out some Waves products.... It'll be game over!
WOW !! What an experienced guy !! Gonna be checkin' out tons more of these vid's.
A treasure trove of advice, this is great!
Thanks for the awesome Channel ! You passion and input into our daily work is so valuable !
Your videos are so insightful... unfortunately I am at the very basic here. A lot of your language is completely foreign to me. There's so much to learn...
Carlos Perdomo that feeling pretty much stays. I've been doing it for about 15 years and I still feel like a newbie, there's always so much to learn, it can get discouraging actually. Check out recording revolution, it brings you back to the basics
deffo check out the recording revolution its life changing
Try Metric Halo ULN-8 and yes ouchto the pocket But so worth it
Are all those tracks extracted from CD or downloaded from iTunes?
What is that peace of equipment on the right side of his desk it always catches my eye.
You're probably talking about the bricasti reverb?
No It looks like an EQ with LEDS on it Chris M
Homegrown Productions MD that's just a meter i think
You should put a few of your mixes in there as well!
Very helpful. I am going to try this. One of the things I do is search wikipedia for grammy engineering records. Wiki has a whole list of 'em. The I go to iTunes and listen to them for reference. It's fun too!
Your voice is almost a direct match with Warren Haynes.
Thanks Dave!
Dave thanks for the great info I have learned so much from you videos.
Did he actually show anything in this though? Lmao a lot of random tips but, from someone as prestigious as him not much taken away from this other than his favorite reference tracks by choice at that time....lmao
Thats why he said the "best mix i have here" ?
i like how you are friends with all genres
My current reference songs:
Celebration - Kool & the gang
Beyonce - Naughty Girl
Baauer - Fire like this
Eptic/Carnage - The End
Michael Jackson - Liberian Girl
Missy Elliot - Pass That dutch
Missy Elliot - Loose Control
RIhanna - BBHMM
Lil Wayne - A Milli
Kanye West - Clique
Brenda Russell - Piano in the dark
Simple Minds - Dont you forget about me
A flock of seagulls - I ran
i'll stop now.
Dirty Needlez Get out of my mind! Lol.
Great taste in music....👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Great stuff
Dave I heard your dog bark at 0:45!
Dave mixed that Keyshia song at the end. ;)
I have that exact same phone
Awesome info.. you rule!!!!
This channel... meeeeen!!!! thank you!
You're inspiring Dave
what is an eban flow?
no... it's "ebb and flow."
what deadmau5 song is it?
dude ty...
ebb and flow.
Evenflo? Lol.
"album flow"
Where do you get stems to practice with?
cambridge-mt.com/ms-mtk.htm#HipHop
Thanks
em... you mean how to plug your IPHONE into protools to access your REFERENCE TRACK library.......???????
where do you get most of your reference mixes from ? from the artist cd ?
That was chris brown Dave lol
SupernovaSun77 “that’s usher 2012”
Don’t think much of your choices.
I never download music, so where is a good place to download reference tracks for Mastering hip hop?
Buy a CD
Checking out Grammy winners for engineering or songs that you think sound great is a good place to start.
Richard Cooper Are you saying listen to the CD along side your track, or first ripping the song and converting to wav to open it in the daw?
either but importing into your daw as a wav is better as you can use your spectrum analyzers, vu meters, etc and switch back and forth.
Richard Cooper Do you know what programs are good for ripping the song (I hate the term ripping but I don't know the current professional term) to open it in a audio track for the daw?
You are the man Dave! Thank you = )