when it comes to referencing and mixing the key thing to understand is the difference in levels... one thing that I personally do is that when I use a "commercial" track that is out as a reference to any song or genre that I intend to mix is that with the "commercial track" I will lower the levels by around -10db that way I can at least reference at that level to try and work my gain stage in that respect.. as well as listen to the placement of instrumentation and vocals in the stereo field. You generally would not reference a mastered commercial song at full level to a mix that you are working on in a daw primarily due to the differences in gain stage and levels so again turning down the level of a mastered commercial track by -10db will give you probably the best reference to work with.
I use references all the time - as Dave said, not to copy a song, or even to clone the exact parameters of a mix, but as something to strive for in quality and overall sonics. It may be the way the bass is sitting, or the way it relates to the kick. It could be a certain reverb treatment of a vocal, or it could even be the sonics of a mix as a whole. It's also a good way to hear how mastered and commercially released mixes sound on your own monitoring, in your mixing environment. Choose something that is similar in style to what you are working on, and it will help to guide you - not only towards better mixing, but also to better arranging and recording, too. FWIW
If you're using references to compare your instrumentals whats the best method of doing so? Because if you listen to the song or even a commercialized instrumental, it's already mastered and when you're comparing your mix it wont hold or might misguide you..so is it best to master the instrumental and compare that? (might be a really dumb question lol)
Using reference mixes with my DAW is something I'm trying for the first time today….for years I've avoided it for fear of copying something about the ref mix or that the ref mix would interrupt the creative flow when I'm really feeling the song that I'm working on. However, you've done a wonderful job of addressing those concerns and showing the advantages of a reference mix - not just for sonic comparisons but for building an arrangement as well. Thanks Dave, john
Dave... I’m new to your channel and just love your perfect “mix” of the technical and philosophical sides of this art & craft... and the relaxed delivery. Well done. I’m definitely a fan, much to learn. Thanks.
No matter what kind of music I'm working on I always check it against some Steely Dan or Donald Fagen just to check I'm not going too over the top with the bass and drums lol....
I hear what you're saying though, Dave. I'm starting to get into more vocal mixing, so hearing a reference, kinda clears my head on the same level, to compete as you say with the mainstream sound.
This may seem silly, but how long is the duration between your A to B's typically? Do you obsessively A - B during mixing or is it more of an occasional reality check? Love the chan! Seriously you are spreading so much love by helping people make better sounding music. It literally makes the world a better place as it disseminates. Cheers
You're awesome! brother. We love you Dave! Would you recommend to start a mix with faders all the way down or at "0" and just solo as you bring audio in?
Its usually the bass and vocals that can be quite a Challenge. Ok.... that heavy kick and snare too. I want that snare to punch through and that kick not to thump tooooo much
Going into the new year I really want to use reference tracks. And I know I'm making it more complex by just not doing it. I'm going to get a couple songs now and focus on referencing all december-Jan
Does anyone else use look at their reference mix in a spectrogram? I've found that to be extremely useful, just to see what amazing balance between the frequencies looks like.
As always, thanks Dave!!! Your show is something we have always wished for!! Could you show us how u handle the muddy area between 200-300hz? Would be great! I find myself fighting this area, the mix becomes eather to thin and harsh or it won't cut through and doesnt sound god at a lower level.
Cool video. The only problem I have with it is that all the music referenced is R&B/Hip-hop, which exhibit similar traits. Would have been more interesting had different genres been presented like modern Country, pop, alt-rock, etc. The mixes that Nigel Godrich does for Radiohead, for example, are completely out of this world. Some vintage stuff would have been cool too.
Hey Dave, you've mentioned before that modern tracks need more midrange to compete with larger amounts of limiting, but I thought we should typically cut low-mids to avoid muddiness in tracks. How do you deal with these somewhat conflicting scenarios?
Hey, I got a noob question...but.... What is the difference between cheap and expensive sound cards? How exactly the expensive one will improve my sound? You probbably will answer me - The converters are better on the $ one but what does that mean? Can you give me a demo or a example to hear? Thank you!
My current reference songs: Celebration - Kool & the gang Beyonce - Naughty Girl Baauer - Fire like this Eptic/Carnage - The End Michael Jackson - Liberian Girl Missy Elliot - Pass That dutch Missy Elliot - Loose Control RIhanna - BBHMM Lil Wayne - A Milli Kanye West - Clique Brenda Russell - Piano in the dark Simple Minds - Dont you forget about me A flock of seagulls - I ran i'll stop now.
Very helpful. I am going to try this. One of the things I do is search wikipedia for grammy engineering records. Wiki has a whole list of 'em. The I go to iTunes and listen to them for reference. It's fun too!
Your videos are so insightful... unfortunately I am at the very basic here. A lot of your language is completely foreign to me. There's so much to learn...
Carlos Perdomo that feeling pretty much stays. I've been doing it for about 15 years and I still feel like a newbie, there's always so much to learn, it can get discouraging actually. Check out recording revolution, it brings you back to the basics
Richard Cooper Do you know what programs are good for ripping the song (I hate the term ripping but I don't know the current professional term) to open it in a audio track for the daw?
I *never* use Reference mixes! Why should I want to copy a mix or master of someone else? I mix and master like I want, it's my own sound. Don't mimick or copy others, do your own thing!
Did he actually show anything in this though? Lmao a lot of random tips but, from someone as prestigious as him not much taken away from this other than his favorite reference tracks by choice at that time....lmao
when it comes to referencing and mixing the key thing to understand is the difference in levels... one thing that I personally do is that when I use a "commercial" track that is out as a reference to any song or genre that I intend to mix is that with the "commercial track" I will lower the levels by around -10db that way I can at least reference at that level to try and work my gain stage in that respect.. as well as listen to the placement of instrumentation and vocals in the stereo field. You generally would not reference a mastered commercial song at full level to a mix that you are working on in a daw primarily due to the differences in gain stage and levels so again turning down the level of a mastered commercial track by -10db will give you probably the best reference to work with.
I use references all the time - as Dave said, not to copy a song, or even to clone the exact parameters of a mix, but as something to strive for in quality and overall sonics. It may be the way the bass is sitting, or the way it relates to the kick. It could be a certain reverb treatment of a vocal, or it could even be the sonics of a mix as a whole. It's also a good way to hear how mastered and commercially released mixes sound on your own monitoring, in your mixing environment. Choose something that is similar in style to what you are working on, and it will help to guide you - not only towards better mixing, but also to better arranging and recording, too.
FWIW
If you're using references to compare your instrumentals whats the best method of doing so? Because if you listen to the song or even a commercialized instrumental, it's already mastered and when you're comparing your mix it wont hold or might misguide you..so is it best to master the instrumental and compare that? (might be a really dumb question lol)
Using reference mixes with my DAW is something I'm trying for the first time today….for years I've avoided it for fear of copying something about the ref mix or that the ref mix would interrupt the creative flow when I'm really feeling the song that I'm working on. However, you've done a wonderful job of addressing those concerns and showing the advantages of a reference mix - not just for sonic comparisons but for building an arrangement as well. Thanks Dave, john
Man I wish I could love this joint. Almost anything Dave says is golden for all engineers!
Mr. Pensado
I thank you very much for all your teachings. It´s very generous of you and they are all very helpful.
"Metaphoric Competition", Pensado you are the man
appreciate you using dope contemporary tracks. it helps a lot!
Dave is the shit.
Instablaster
Dave... I’m new to your channel and just love your perfect “mix” of the technical and philosophical sides of this art & craft... and the relaxed delivery. Well done. I’m definitely a fan, much to learn. Thanks.
Always great stuff. Thanks man.
"Ebb and flow." It refers to the flow in and out of water, and is used in this context to refer to the dynamics of the song, louder or softer.
A treasure trove of advice, this is great!
Thanks for the awesome Channel ! You passion and input into our daily work is so valuable !
No matter what kind of music I'm working on I always check it against some Steely Dan or Donald Fagen just to check I'm not going too over the top with the bass and drums lol....
Thank you for all your great advice. I have been learning so much from you for the last few years. You are a generous gentleman......😆
Dear Dave, Thank you so much for your great teaching and being master. I am learning a lot of skill but also learn philosophy of mixing.
Where has this channel been all my life?
I hear what you're saying though, Dave. I'm starting to get into more vocal mixing, so hearing a reference, kinda clears my head on the same level, to compete as you say with the mainstream sound.
Amazing thinking. I'm absolutely synced up to it. Thanks for the great video. Best, Enrico
Priceless video my friend.
This may the most honest man in all of music lol
Awesome video Dave!
This may seem silly, but how long is the duration between your A to B's typically? Do you obsessively A - B during mixing or is it more of an occasional reality check? Love the chan! Seriously you are spreading so much love by helping people make better sounding music. It literally makes the world a better place as it disseminates. Cheers
You're awesome! brother. We love you Dave! Would you recommend to start a mix with faders all the way down or at "0" and just solo as you bring audio in?
Its usually the bass and vocals that can be quite a
Challenge.
Ok.... that heavy kick and snare too. I want that snare to punch through and that kick not to thump tooooo much
i like how you are friends with all genres
Dave ... Your my hero man . . .
Going into the new year I really want to use reference tracks. And I know I'm making it more complex by just not doing it.
I'm going to get a couple songs now and focus on referencing all december-Jan
Does anyone else use look at their reference mix in a spectrogram? I've found that to be extremely useful, just to see what amazing balance between the frequencies looks like.
really enjoy watching your vids! lots of knowledge and encouraged experimentation!
THanks
WOW !! What an experienced guy !! Gonna be checkin' out tons more of these vid's.
Good stuff Dave. Thanks
I can't wait til King Dave puts out some Waves products.... It'll be game over!
As always, thanks Dave!!! Your show is something we have always wished for!! Could you show us how u handle the muddy area between 200-300hz? Would be great! I find myself fighting this area, the mix becomes eather to thin and harsh or it won't cut through and doesnt sound god at a lower level.
Cool video. The only problem I have with it is that all the music referenced is R&B/Hip-hop, which exhibit similar traits. Would have been more interesting had different genres been presented like modern Country, pop, alt-rock, etc. The mixes that Nigel Godrich does for Radiohead, for example, are completely out of this world. Some vintage stuff would have been cool too.
Hey Dave, you've mentioned before that modern tracks need more midrange to compete with larger amounts of limiting, but I thought we should typically cut low-mids to avoid muddiness in tracks. How do you deal with these somewhat conflicting scenarios?
Hey, I got a noob question...but.... What is the difference between cheap and expensive sound cards? How exactly the expensive one will improve my sound? You probbably will answer me - The converters are better on the $ one but what does that mean? Can you give me a demo or a example to hear? Thank you!
Dave thanks for the great info I have learned so much from you videos.
My current reference songs:
Celebration - Kool & the gang
Beyonce - Naughty Girl
Baauer - Fire like this
Eptic/Carnage - The End
Michael Jackson - Liberian Girl
Missy Elliot - Pass That dutch
Missy Elliot - Loose Control
RIhanna - BBHMM
Lil Wayne - A Milli
Kanye West - Clique
Brenda Russell - Piano in the dark
Simple Minds - Dont you forget about me
A flock of seagulls - I ran
i'll stop now.
Dirty Needlez Get out of my mind! Lol.
Great taste in music....👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Great info! Thanks Dave! I would like to know the brand name of those reference (Auratone looking) speakers you're using.
“Feelings n emotions are function of basic things”
Where is a good place to download songs for reference?
Dave,,, it would be great to know wich of the mixes you've done are your favourite.. Greetings from Spain!
What is that peace of equipment on the right side of his desk it always catches my eye.
You're probably talking about the bricasti reverb?
No It looks like an EQ with LEDS on it Chris M
Homegrown Productions MD that's just a meter i think
Where do we start from? Spectrum analyzer?
oh my god i have so much to learn.
Yall listening 2021?
You, Sir, are great!
Thank You, so much, for everything!
Very helpful. I am going to try this. One of the things I do is search wikipedia for grammy engineering records. Wiki has a whole list of 'em. The I go to iTunes and listen to them for reference. It's fun too!
Are all those tracks extracted from CD or downloaded from iTunes?
You're inspiring Dave
Thanks Dave!
Awesome man. Thank you!
Dave mixed that Keyshia song at the end. ;)
You should put a few of your mixes in there as well!
Your videos are so insightful... unfortunately I am at the very basic here. A lot of your language is completely foreign to me. There's so much to learn...
Carlos Perdomo that feeling pretty much stays. I've been doing it for about 15 years and I still feel like a newbie, there's always so much to learn, it can get discouraging actually. Check out recording revolution, it brings you back to the basics
deffo check out the recording revolution its life changing
Awesome info.. you rule!!!!
Chris brown 2012
+GUTTA HITZ I was about 2 say it... lol
Great stuff
This channel... meeeeen!!!! thank you!
Your voice is almost a direct match with Warren Haynes.
How do you get around the fact that the reference mixes are mostly mastered tracks? Because I find it misleading to reference mastered songs.
Where do you get stems to practice with?
cambridge-mt.com/ms-mtk.htm#HipHop
Thats why he said the "best mix i have here" ?
what deadmau5 song is it?
what is an eban flow?
Dave I heard your dog bark at 0:45!
Try Metric Halo ULN-8 and yes ouchto the pocket But so worth it
dude ty...
You mentioned a mix engineer who does great work with delays...
Jason who?
Jaycen Joshua
Thanks
I have that exact same phone
5:35 - Lmao thats not Usher man, thats Chris Brown - 2012, produced by Adonis!
That’s exactly what i said lol
where do you get most of your reference mixes from ? from the artist cd ?
I never download music, so where is a good place to download reference tracks for Mastering hip hop?
Buy a CD
Checking out Grammy winners for engineering or songs that you think sound great is a good place to start.
Richard Cooper Are you saying listen to the CD along side your track, or first ripping the song and converting to wav to open it in the daw?
either but importing into your daw as a wav is better as you can use your spectrum analyzers, vu meters, etc and switch back and forth.
Richard Cooper Do you know what programs are good for ripping the song (I hate the term ripping but I don't know the current professional term) to open it in a audio track for the daw?
I find it hilarious how I couldn't tell what deadmau5 song that was lol
Maths maybe?
Animal Rights
All that overly compressed shit o_O
em... you mean how to plug your IPHONE into protools to access your REFERENCE TRACK library.......???????
I *never* use Reference mixes! Why should I want to copy a mix or master of someone else? I mix and master like I want, it's my own sound. Don't mimick or copy others, do your own thing!
Did he actually show anything in this though? Lmao a lot of random tips but, from someone as prestigious as him not much taken away from this other than his favorite reference tracks by choice at that time....lmao
ebb and flow.
"album flow"
no... it's "ebb and flow."
Don’t think much of your choices.
Evenflo? Lol.
That was chris brown Dave lol
SupernovaSun77 “that’s usher 2012”