3:11 After detaching blades and scraping grass gum off the blades, as an experiment I squirted WD-40 on the disk where the blade sits. After a big mow, the blades seemed better off than before the lube. Not gummy and not frozen.
I just Purchased one and made the mistake of moving the RTK a few feet and Luba started to head towards the outside of the property. I was thinking that it was a defective Unit. But after Digging Down Deeper I have found the reason for the initial inaccuracy an Failure. This thanks to you Guys! Its a Hefty investment so it better do a good job or we are going so see a lot of in the Near Future Dissolution of Marriages… Hope mine Works fine Tomorrow with securing of the RTK and the Updated Map… Luck to me, by Me…
Yeah you may have to redo the map now, Yes it is very important that RTK does not move at all! Otherwise the lubas whole world will tilt along with it 😂
Well, you certainly got my 'like' and 'subscribe'! Thanks for sacrificing all that mapping work for what was a very useful demo. It answered a lot of my questions about whether a Luba and its RTK could handle my 1.5 acres with trees - not unlike yours, but smaller and much steeper. Now I know I won't have to climb up on the roof, which I was NOT looking forward to! It was also really handy to get a preview of the UI on the app. I think I'm getting very close to getting myself the Luba 2 AWD 5000 😎😎 Many thanks indeed!
Thanks for watching! The RTK seems to be one of the number one questions I get. People think that it needs to see the lawn mower to be able to work and that's not true It just needs a good clear view of the sky and not too close to any structure. The connection between the luba and the RTK is 900 MHz and it's pretty robust. Now about the UI there has been a significant update a few weeks ago and it looks almost completely different now. The general functions are the same.
More often than not if you have satellite connectivity issues it's from Luba itself going next to buildings or under thick trees and not the fault of the RTK
It's come up a bunch in the comment section of previous videos. I just wanted people to know the link between the RTK and the mower is more robust than people think it is capable of penetrating some walls and traveling quite a distance. You're more likely to have problems with GPS reception on the mowers side when it's underneath trees or next to walls then you are to have problems with the RTK link
Great job, probably the biggest question about RTK mowers right now: "Will I have to hire a roofer to place the reference station at the peak to mow all sides of the house?"
Thanks very much for you efforts in creating this video. As I have just purchased a Luba 2 / 5000, your presentation will be very helpful as I setup my equipment. I have subscribed to your channel - THANKS FOR YOUR EFFORT!! All the best!
It's the same with the robot vacuums if you move the base station it needs to remap the entire house. Thanks for showing off the luba in all these videos, I really want a robot mower but in my opinion they won't be good enough for my yard until maybe next generation. I knew when irobot made the terra robot mower and then scrapped the entire project instead of shipping product, we aren't quite "there" yet.
Your video may just have been what I needed to make a decision to get me a 3000 - like anything you get, there will always be flaws or shortcomings - you just have to way the positives against the negatives, or vice versa, & make your decision by that.
You have no idea how the rtk station works I think. At 10:21 the rtk doesn't need line of sight to the robot, it only needs to see the gps satellites. Rtk measures the influence of the weather on the gps signal and sends those deviations (through wifi) to the robot and the robot will use it to adjust it's location
This video was from over a year ago when I was just learning how RTK worked. The main point of this video is line of sight is not required between the rover and the reference point
My understanding is that the rtk reference station has a pretty good GPS receiver and a low power 916 MHz radio transmitter. It compares the signals from GPS satellites in its field of view with its known lat/long coordinates and calculates GPS correction data for those satellites to account for atmospheric distortion. This correction data is transmitted to the mower via its radio transmitter. The mower receives the GPS correction data sent by the reference station. It then applies the correction data to GPS signals for at least four of the same satellites it can "see" and calculates the mower's location to within a couple of centimeters. The reason line of sight to the RTK reference station is not needed is because the microwave radio signals transmitted from the rtk reference station go around solid objects to an extent due to diffraction. If not for the diffraction, the radio signal would be greatly attenuated passing through the solid brick walls of your house. I don't know the output power of Mammotion's RTK reference station radio, but I suspect it's only a couple of watts (it must be less than 4 watts by law to be used without an FCC license). The strength of an RF (radio frequency) signal diminishes by the square of the distance from the signal source which is why the Luba has a relatively short operational range. Having line of sight to the RTK reference station will maximize the range. The fact that your house is one story makes it a lot easier for the radio signal to be received by the mower than if it was a two story house because diffraction would be less effective in maintaining a strong RF signal. BTW, GPS signals are also in the microwave band. The strength of GPS signals (L1 and L2) are quite low, however, so that solid objects effectively block the signals despite diffraction. The GPS antenna in the Luba is not capable of picking up weakened GPS signals from 4 satellites when it's beneath a dense canopy of tree leaves. One solution to minimize this problem is to install a more sensitive GPS antenna placed above the plastic cover of the mower.
So confused.. I thought the RTK is like the safety net for when the luba cant see the GPS.... so in other words when the trees above block the GPS from the sky,, shouldn't the RTK supply the information from the rtk to the luba .. like sending the info under the trees to the luba... what good is an RTK if the LUBA has to still see GPS fully ?
The RTK reference station merely helps Luba. Luba still has to have a good GPS connection. That's why it will have trouble under trees and especially next to buildings. A basic way of explaining RTK is, An RTK reference station is a fixed GPS receiver that is used to generate real-time corrections for other GPS receivers. Luba still has to have a decent GPS signal to even use to compare. corrections are used to remove errors in the GPS This allows the other GPS receivers to achieve centimeter-level accuracy.
I think the general goal for the RTK base station location is for it to see as many satellites as possible (unobstructed 360 view of the sky) because when Luba drops below 20 satellites it relies on the RTK base station for error correction, the more satellites the base station can see the more robust the mower will be.
Thanks for your efforts. Could you try to let the luba cut the grass under the trees where it looses the GPS signal? I'm thinking of buying a Luba but I'm worried that it isn't usable if there is an area where it looses the GPS connection. I would love to see if it continues with the odometer and the memory of the map or just stops mowing.
Yeah sure I can try that, but what I've observed happening when Luba loses GPS it stops It does not continue until it reestablishes GPS. But that's usually not permanently because GPS satellites are constantly moving so if it waits long enough more will come around from different angles and give it signal again.
@@Crazypostman Thank you so much for your response and your willingness to try that out for me. By the way, the allen key might not perfectly fit because some screws on the mower might be imperial size and some metric. Would be a weird decision from Mammotion but if they use parts from different manufacturers it might be. If the screws are screwed into metal they also might have used Loctite. It would then help heating up the screw with a soldering iron.
Thanks for this. I've been concerned about getting one is these because of all the tree coverage in my yard, but it looks like it's not such a big problem.
Not really, It may pause occasionally but it recovers automatically. The hardest part is going to be mapping under the trees because you got to just stand there and wait while it reacquires normally it's mowing autonomously and it doesn't matter to you.
I have the hisqvarna version of this. I can say it is working flawlessly on my residential property. And yes the rtk works through my house. Everything I’ve seen about the Luba is that it sucks compared to the automower. I’ve never had any of my auto mowers blades gum up. Also since you are using this for a property you don’t live at you need cellular connection and some of the features of an automower. Hopefully they improve the Luba over time as it looks like a promising product. That sucks you can’t just use a Philips to change the blades.
I get it, You're loyal to Husqvarna but don't poop on Luba 😂 Husqvarna has many years Head start and experience They are very good You're correct but Luba is getting better by the week with each update. You really don't need cellular most houses have Wi-Fi nowadays so Luba is going to have a network connection on your property. I can control luba remotely from my house in another town even though there's no cellular connection.
Also, the 4wd on this thing seem pretty awsome. I have gopher mounds and holes dug by dogs. I THINK this could handle those. My main concern is parts, battery replacement etc. Don't see anything about battery on the web site. Hate to spend 3k only to have to throw it away if something breaks. Also wish the cut height were a littl greater... like 4 inches.
@@jadams2013 If the OEM battery replacement ends up being crazy, A battery is a battery just make sure the voltage is the same reuse whatever proprietary cable they're using and just put in your own battery or add more batteries for longer run time just make sure the voltage stays the same.
I was not able to map around my house or anywhere behind the house without loosing pos if station is on the ground on the other side of the house. will try to put antenna on the roof.
The RTK unit just needs a clear view of the sky. The height will not help you have a better GPS signal unless putting it up higher gives you a better view of the sky. Your problem is likely Luba being too close to the wall of the house or trees being above Luba. reception issues are rarely the RTK is felt It's almost always on Luba's side.
I put it on the roof and got a new update so i don't know what made a difference but it is noticeable. pos loss is only wery close to the house wall. @@Crazypostman
I’m not sure I understand why moving the reference station requires the map to be remade. If the map was made in WGS-84 coordinates, those locations are independent of where things are located. So maybe that implies that for some reason it’s building the map using a relative coordinate frame. Perhaps it’s less data to transmit as deltas from a fixed point or less error in small scale measurements, since its use case is on the small (relative to geodetic coordinates) end of the world positioning scale.
Because the position of the luba responds to the initial position of the rtk unit when the initial mapping is made. It takes a very accurate GPS location coords of the rtk unit then measures everything off of that set point for the unit. It is how they stay so accurate and mow perfect lines because that set point.
Probably not going to have problems on a normal sized lot. Now if you have acreage on the opposite side of the house it could be more iffy but it should be able to make it through.
I had a ton of issues with mine. It was horrible and already sent it back. The RTK would not connect to the mower. Then the RTK just stopped working altogether. Good luck with it
I see that you have also had a robomow (630?). I was an early robomow 630 adopter as far back as 2011 and am now on my 3rd rs630 mower and 2nd yard/house. I'm curious how you compare the luba to the robomow other than simply no wire. I'm thinking of buying a Luba 2 10000 for my 2.5 acres. I'm hoping since the robomow rs630 hasn't really changed much in a decade that he tech in the Luba 2 will blow me away. I have a lidar roborock vaccum which would be amazing for similar tech in a mower.
I don't remember for sure I think it was a 625. To be honest I didn't like it that much had lots of technical problems. It was broke down for probably half the summer both years I used it. Luba is nothing like it, much smarter but a lot more complicated and it cuts in nice straight rows
usually, you want to mow after 11 when the dew is gone, and it is dryer and not at night when the dew starts. that helps keep it cleaner. also do not mow within 4 hours of it raining. one of the things i have noticed is you have to remap the whole yard if there is a small change. i have been looking at the segway one that lets you just modify the current map and not remap the whole yard. but yes i see in this one you moved one of it's points of reference so it had you remap with a new fixed point for the rtk station.
You can adjust the zones without remapping now, That ability came with one of the later updates. I don't have any solid opinions about the Segway yet. I have seen it having some trouble but I'm so has Luba haha
Great video, question when the mover is idle in the charging station is the RTK broadcasting a signal ? That would be a waste of power given the mover is idle most of the time. Hello from Ireland !
The RTK is always on and transmitting It's a one-way transmission. Your luba mower will receive that transmission and then compare it with its own GPS to get the very fine location
@@Crazypostman thanks?, would be cool if it went into some kind of low power standby mode. It would need some trigger from the charging station. Then again if the power consumption is low to begin with it’s not a big issue.
First of all great video, very useful information, thank you! 🙏 One information I can't find anywhere: does the RTK station need to be under Wi-Fi signal? I mean, Wi-Fi from the house, in way to have access via smartphone App. Or other way, house Wi-Fi is not needed at all? Thank you for help 👍
Maby must the cutting blades not have the optie to turn. I know little stones... Much mowers have one plate with fixed blades. Is a good practical video! And yes the trees with leaves are the thing thats can gives trubbles ....But is for much (farm) yards a isseu I think...
I "m confused as to why the Luba can't have the station close to the house. I have a house sitting in the center of a half-acre lot, no trees, no obstacles other than the house. On the eve The transmitting gadget will have open access to the sky while the black antenna should point down past the house eve giving it line of sight to the charging station located under a porch where I have electrical outlets. Having to store the Luba in the open with electric cables seems to be a weak point for the Luba. Under what circumstances could one set up the system where the Luba used covered shelter ( I don't count that little plastic top currently sold as an accessory.
Luba needs satellite reception just like the RTK antenna. If you put Luba inside a dog house or right up against your house It could very well not work properly.
Luba needs to be five or six ft away from your house to work the best. I'm not saying it won't work but I certainly had issues and it was frustrating enough to just move Luba out now I don't have GPS issues.
The RTK does not need to see the mower. It's a 900 MHz link between the two It can penetrate walls. It's most important to put the RTK with the most clear view of the sky as you can get Don't worry so much about line of sight to the mower
The luba has more cutting blades than the blade 🤣 jokes aside It does come from a more established company. You would need to compare the blade to the two wheel drive luba air. The lawn sweeper is cool and all but it's kind of gimmicky. How autonomous could it be if you would have to be around empty the bag over and over for it. It looks pretty cool though. I would have to try it out for myself before I could give a real opinion.
Hi. Can RTK be mounted remotely from the charging station, for example on the roof with a power cable or the cable from RTK must connect to charging station? You mentioned "remote kit" in the video, whats that? In other words, can I put up RTK on the roof and plug it into the socket for power, and put the charging station somewhere in the yard far away and they dont connect with each other with cable?
Absolutely, both of my permanent luba setups the RTK is on the roof. You just have to power the RTK antenna separately. Most kits came with a extra power supply for the RTK are you sure you don't already have one? It should look like this us.mammotion.com/products/rtk-reference-station-power-supply-adapter
@@Crazypostman thanks. I dont have luba, yet. Exploring options. Could you do another experiment and mount or RTK under the roof, inside the house somewhere. I saw a video of a guy mounting it in his attick and he said it worked great
@@Gragon I don't recommend that, it would get too hot in the attic Plus you would have a lower signal level from satellites. I'm sure it could work. But I wouldn't.
I am almost sold but I really need Luba to cut a little lower. Is there a way to get it cutting just under an inch and how do you think it will do with hybrid Bermudas?
@@trplay1 haha My Bermuda does not look good enough to compare it to anything, It's just all natural not maintained and it hasn't rained that much yet. I probably don't really have a close-up anywhere because I'm not that proud of it 😂
It's not so much that the signal between the base antenna and Luba might get blocked but whether the house blocks either from seeing the same satellites.
Correct. So you want your RTK placed in a location to see every possible satellite the distance between Luba and the RTK is not going to be an issue...
Crazy, thank you very much for all your testing!! My condolences on losing your map. :^( I'm now leaning on "NOT" buying the Luba now after seeing those blades freeze up. Yikes! However I noticed it's got two sets of spinning blades. Most all other robo-mowers I've researched only have one.
Yeah lube is cutting ability is beast mode compared to others! Most other robots have one disc with three blades Luba has two disc with eight blades! But sadly a software update isn't going to help me loosen those screws 😂 I guess we'll figure that out in a few months when those blades wear out. Another video coming in a few minutes It's processing now.
I like the fact that I don’t have to deal with dealers for installation with this one. Having had a husqvarna, I would rather deal with the lawn mowing service than the automower dealers. How does it compare with husqvarna or Landroid? Are you able to make a video comparing with either. I have a husqvarna but it it is Neanderthal. Perimeter wire, random mowing pattern, inconsistent mowing. It often goes outside the perimeter especially when there is a bit of slope at the boundary (well within their states limit).
I have a Husqvarna and a Robomow also both are perimeter wire random cut pattern type. I would NOT recommend the Robomower to my worst enemy! It's that bad. I haven't had many problems with the Husqvarna, It's 5 years old I've had to replace the main board on the charging station and a whole bunch of blades and that's it. I can't really compare them to the luba because they're very different machines. These GPS mowers like the luba are so much better than the random cut perimeter wire ones. Husqvarna has EPOS of course Luba and The EcoFlow blade. There's several other brands that are hit in the market soon. Yes there will be no reason to deal with a dealer because setup is so easy now.
@Crazypostman so it's a software limitation. That kinda sucks. I need to mow closer to 2 acres. I understand not overworking the little mower but as the owner I should be able to mow as much as I want. The huscavarna will cover what I need but I really like the luba.
Yes it's a software limitation luba could probably mow 8 acres per week if it was unlimited. Mammotion is going to release a commercial version that will cut more and I'm sure they limited Luba to not compete with the much more expensive commercial version, The Husqvarna is also about double the price. Mammotion says It's limited memory not a software limit but they chose to only put in a limited amount of memory during production so I say it's still probably a conscious decision not to compete with their bigger planned mower
Oh hey a robomow. I use to have one of those and loved the cutting system as it could mulch leaves really well everything else about the robomow sucked.
That's about the only thing I liked about it as well 😂 the blades were expensive but it actually did chop things up. The luba does A surprising job at chopping things up for a razor blade type cutting system I guess having eight blades helps.
@@Crazypostman yeah my automower dealer told me that husqvarna os coming out with a 5 blade system that can mulch leaves and that I will be able to upgrade my 450xh basically swap the old cutting system for the new one.
@@Crazypostman yeah but the blades on the robomow could be flipped over to extend their life and lasted way longer than the tiny racer blades. So it all comes out in the end.
I didn't see a comparison on how many satellites the RTK station could see down on the ground vs. the roof. If that number is reduced, significantly or just a bit, it will affect the number of co-viewing satellites, and make driving under trees worse, even if the RTK to mower signal is sufficient.
I'm sure it was reduced a bit, I wasn't paying attention to that aspect during this test, Just the radio link between the RTK and the mower was what I was watching. But I would assume there's probably a few less satellites received.
Not at your wifi/extensions behind barns/ guesthouse?? I thought the transmitter didnt go through brickhouses. I have 5000 sqm and of course some is behind!! Connect to your wifi/extensions you mov behind barns/guesthouses. Husqvarna only goes on open air.... not behind house?
Yes that is the case evidently. Now I knew moving the reference station would require some recalibration but I didn't think it would actually delete all my maps. Oh well, It probably only took me 20 or 30 minutes to redo everything it goes quickly
Moral of story…if you let the mower do all your yard work for 6 days a week but won’t clean it for 30 mins once a week, you’re gonna have a bad time. Also if you reference an Allen key as a “special tool” for taking off a blade, you probably shouldn’t be buying these. When I saw the trashed other robot mower sitting outside, I knew this was not an equipment issue.
Not everybody has hex keys laying around It would be much more user friendly to use a Phillips head much more households have a flathead and a Phillips head screwdriver in their house then a full set of hex keys.
Yes Luba will run over most of those things. Need to make sure the yard is clear before mowing. If it's a large obstacle it can avoid it, But a waterhose it will run over.
The rtk is not an new System. But for mover it is not the best option, if it used alone. I would fix this easy with 2 rtk stations that cooperate with the mover in Addition so you can make a triangle and you have an exact Position of the mover every time. If the gps Signal lost you can say triangle help me. Simple technology. With one rtk and a mover it will be not optimal. Tree and forgot. Cloudly weather and forgot. Next way would be cam and AI. Again as additional. The problem of luba and I like it, but it has problems is they count on one system. And this system is very good but not for mover. So we will see what luba make with this. For me we bought a Experimental stuff it is cool, it has the best moving wheel system, everything fine, but the position stuff is realy bad. So maybe they will do an Upgrade I mean Hardware Upgrade with cam and we will have to send to Service and pay a little or they bring out new Version. The second would be sad cause we are theire Sponsors now. It is not like with a vaccum cleaner in past. Zhe first gen was stupid, the second was nice and worked in most case, the third with cam was nearly perfect and now it is perfect without cöimbing stairs. But the Differenzen was the frist gen 100 Euro, the second 200 Euro and the 4th gen is 800 Euro. Here we already started with 2000 Euro and up. And sp for me we are Sponsors, but the product have a big Potential.but nobody will but gen after gen. It has to be that a company try to make it modular for future Updates. And you pay 300 Euro and has again new gen. So long as we have a system that works super and not fall in water, not stoke under trees or near house on so on. So for the first 5 years I wish they think at us that bought it 2023. Cause we build up this company and have a big hope in them.
Well, I clean it every time I'm at the property. Which is normally Sundays unless I have to make a special trip because it got stuck somewhere in the yard. I did go to harbor freight and bought some bits that will hopefully fit my screwdriver and make it to where I can remove these blades
Finally a "real" yard, with trees and all the things we "weird" people have in their yards. Thank you :)
Haha yeah! Silly us.
Finally a real person with a real demo. You've convinced me that I don't need to cancel my order for a luba 2
I like how you say "ruuff". 😊 And I like how you show and test realistic scenarios, it's immensely helpful.
3:11 After detaching blades and scraping grass gum off the blades, as an experiment I squirted WD-40 on the disk where the blade sits. After a big mow, the blades seemed better off than before the lube. Not gummy and not frozen.
Just the test I were looking for, thanks!
thank you for keeping us updated.
greetings from Germany
Hi! It's crazy to me that someone in Germany sees my video from the middle of nowhere Oklahoma 🤣
Hi!
I am really grateful for your videos and advice. I always enjoy watching them.
Best wishes from a German living in the Swedish wilderness.
Watching from Ireland
Watching from Sweden
Great episode! This is the tie breaker for me. I'm getting my Luba.
The RTK connection is definitely not the weak point It's very robust. Luba's on board GPS is what gets blocked if there's a problem
Thanks for the review! I’m on the hunt for a new robot mower.
I just Purchased one and made the mistake of moving the RTK a few feet and Luba started to head towards the outside of the property. I was thinking that it was a defective Unit.
But after Digging Down Deeper I have found the reason for the initial inaccuracy an Failure.
This thanks to you Guys!
Its a Hefty investment so it better do a good job or we are going so see a lot of in the Near Future Dissolution of Marriages…
Hope mine Works fine Tomorrow with securing of the RTK and the Updated Map…
Luck to me, by Me…
Yeah you may have to redo the map now, Yes it is very important that RTK does not move at all! Otherwise the lubas whole world will tilt along with it 😂
Well, you certainly got my 'like' and 'subscribe'!
Thanks for sacrificing all that mapping work for what was a very useful demo.
It answered a lot of my questions about whether a Luba and its RTK could handle my 1.5 acres with trees - not unlike yours, but smaller and much steeper.
Now I know I won't have to climb up on the roof, which I was NOT looking forward to!
It was also really handy to get a preview of the UI on the app.
I think I'm getting very close to getting myself the Luba 2 AWD 5000 😎😎
Many thanks indeed!
Thanks for watching! The RTK seems to be one of the number one questions I get. People think that it needs to see the lawn mower to be able to work and that's not true It just needs a good clear view of the sky and not too close to any structure. The connection between the luba and the RTK is 900 MHz and it's pretty robust. Now about the UI there has been a significant update a few weeks ago and it looks almost completely different now. The general functions are the same.
More often than not if you have satellite connectivity issues it's from Luba itself going next to buildings or under thick trees and not the fault of the RTK
I think you're the only one on youtube with this topic for ANY boundary wire-free mower. THANKS!
It's come up a bunch in the comment section of previous videos. I just wanted people to know the link between the RTK and the mower is more robust than people think it is capable of penetrating some walls and traveling quite a distance. You're more likely to have problems with GPS reception on the mowers side when it's underneath trees or next to walls then you are to have problems with the RTK link
Great job, probably the biggest question about RTK mowers right now: "Will I have to hire a roofer to place the reference station at the peak to mow all sides of the house?"
Thanks very much for you efforts in creating this video. As I have just purchased a Luba 2 / 5000, your presentation will be very helpful as I setup my equipment. I have subscribed to your channel - THANKS FOR YOUR EFFORT!! All the best!
Thanks for the nice comment! I hope you enjoy your Luba as much as I have
It's the same with the robot vacuums if you move the base station it needs to remap the entire house.
Thanks for showing off the luba in all these videos, I really want a robot mower but in my opinion they won't be good enough for my yard until maybe next generation. I knew when irobot made the terra robot mower and then scrapped the entire project instead of shipping product, we aren't quite "there" yet.
thanks for sharing, sorry you lost the boundary!
It wasn't that hard to remap it but hopefully my screw up will keep other people from doing the same thing 😂
Very informative. Questions answered I been wondering about. I think you sold me on Luba 2 AWD. Thanks
Great job i appreciate this video very much the only thing preventing me from buying this product is the HOUSE blocking etc
You can spray pam under the mower, will keep from build up but the oil wont hurt the grass, will make it easier to clean in the future
I need to try this!
Or WD40
@@GianniNotaristefano I already tried the Pam I'll try WD-40 next
Your video may just have been what I needed to make a decision to get me a 3000 - like anything you get, there will always be flaws or shortcomings - you just have to way the positives against the negatives, or vice versa, & make your decision by that.
You have no idea how the rtk station works I think. At 10:21 the rtk doesn't need line of sight to the robot, it only needs to see the gps satellites.
Rtk measures the influence of the weather on the gps signal and sends those deviations (through wifi) to the robot and the robot will use it to adjust it's location
This video was from over a year ago when I was just learning how RTK worked. The main point of this video is line of sight is not required between the rover and the reference point
Thanks. I was worried about this too
My understanding is that the rtk reference station has a pretty good GPS receiver and a low power 916 MHz radio transmitter. It compares the signals from GPS satellites in its field of view with its known lat/long coordinates and calculates GPS correction data for those satellites to account for atmospheric distortion. This correction data is transmitted to the mower via its radio transmitter. The mower receives the GPS correction data sent by the reference station. It then applies the correction data to GPS signals for at least four of the same satellites it can "see" and calculates the mower's location to within a couple of centimeters.
The reason line of sight to the RTK reference station is not needed is because the microwave radio signals transmitted from the rtk reference station go around solid objects to an extent due to diffraction. If not for the diffraction, the radio signal would be greatly attenuated passing through the solid brick walls of your house. I don't know the output power of Mammotion's RTK reference station radio, but I suspect it's only a couple of watts (it must be less than 4 watts by law to be used without an FCC license). The strength of an RF (radio frequency) signal diminishes by the square of the distance from the signal source which is why the Luba has a relatively short operational range. Having line of sight to the RTK reference station will maximize the range. The fact that your house is one story makes it a lot easier for the radio signal to be received by the mower than if it was a two story house because diffraction would be less effective in maintaining a strong RF signal.
BTW, GPS signals are also in the microwave band. The strength of GPS signals (L1 and L2) are quite low, however, so that solid objects effectively block the signals despite diffraction. The GPS antenna in the Luba is not capable of picking up weakened GPS signals from 4 satellites when it's beneath a dense canopy of tree leaves. One solution to minimize this problem is to install a more sensitive GPS antenna placed above the plastic cover of the mower.
Thanks for your efforts. I appreciate that!
So confused.. I thought the RTK is like the safety net for when the luba cant see the GPS.... so in other words when the trees above block the GPS from the sky,, shouldn't the RTK supply the information from the rtk to the luba .. like sending the info under the trees to the luba... what good is an RTK if the LUBA has to still see GPS fully ?
The RTK reference station merely helps Luba. Luba still has to have a good GPS connection. That's why it will have trouble under trees and especially next to buildings. A basic way of explaining RTK is, An RTK reference station is a fixed GPS receiver that is used to generate real-time corrections for other GPS receivers. Luba still has to have a decent GPS signal to even use to compare. corrections are used to remove errors in the GPS This allows the other GPS receivers to achieve centimeter-level accuracy.
I think the general goal for the RTK base station location is for it to see as many satellites as possible (unobstructed 360 view of the sky) because when Luba drops below 20 satellites it relies on the RTK base station for error correction, the more satellites the base station can see the more robust the mower will be.
Nice review! Are there any budget-friendly options you know of?
Thanks for your efforts. Could you try to let the luba cut the grass under the trees where it looses the GPS signal? I'm thinking of buying a Luba but I'm worried that it isn't usable if there is an area where it looses the GPS connection. I would love to see if it continues with the odometer and the memory of the map or just stops mowing.
Yeah sure I can try that, but what I've observed happening when Luba loses GPS it stops It does not continue until it reestablishes GPS. But that's usually not permanently because GPS satellites are constantly moving so if it waits long enough more will come around from different angles and give it signal again.
@@Crazypostman Thank you so much for your response and your willingness to try that out for me.
By the way, the allen key might not perfectly fit because some screws on the mower might be imperial size and some metric. Would be a weird decision from Mammotion but if they use parts from different manufacturers it might be.
If the screws are screwed into metal they also might have used Loctite. It would then help heating up the screw with a soldering iron.
I moved my RTK upwards.. i used a bigg pole and now picks up more satalites..
Thanks for this. I've been concerned about getting one is these because of all the tree coverage in my yard, but it looks like it's not such a big problem.
Not really, It may pause occasionally but it recovers automatically. The hardest part is going to be mapping under the trees because you got to just stand there and wait while it reacquires normally it's mowing autonomously and it doesn't matter to you.
I have the hisqvarna version of this. I can say it is working flawlessly on my residential property. And yes the rtk works through my house. Everything I’ve seen about the Luba is that it sucks compared to the automower. I’ve never had any of my auto mowers blades gum up. Also since you are using this for a property you don’t live at you need cellular connection and some of the features of an automower. Hopefully they improve the Luba over time as it looks like a promising product. That sucks you can’t just use a Philips to change the blades.
I get it, You're loyal to Husqvarna but don't poop on Luba 😂 Husqvarna has many years Head start and experience They are very good You're correct but Luba is getting better by the week with each update. You really don't need cellular most houses have Wi-Fi nowadays so Luba is going to have a network connection on your property. I can control luba remotely from my house in another town even though there's no cellular connection.
Automower still requires boundary wire doesn't it?
Also, the 4wd on this thing seem pretty awsome. I have gopher mounds and holes dug by dogs. I THINK this could handle those. My main concern is parts, battery replacement etc. Don't see anything about battery on the web site. Hate to spend 3k only to have to throw it away if something breaks. Also wish the cut height were a littl greater... like 4 inches.
@@jadams2013 If the OEM battery replacement ends up being crazy, A battery is a battery just make sure the voltage is the same reuse whatever proprietary cable they're using and just put in your own battery or add more batteries for longer run time just make sure the voltage stays the same.
@@Crazypostman so, its not lithium ion?
I was not able to map around my house or anywhere behind the house without loosing pos if station is on the ground on the other side of the house. will try to put antenna on the roof.
The RTK unit just needs a clear view of the sky. The height will not help you have a better GPS signal unless putting it up higher gives you a better view of the sky. Your problem is likely Luba being too close to the wall of the house or trees being above Luba. reception issues are rarely the RTK is felt It's almost always on Luba's side.
I put it on the roof and got a new update so i don't know what made a difference but it is noticeable. pos loss is only wery close to the house wall. @@Crazypostman
I’m not sure I understand why moving the reference station requires the map to be remade. If the map was made in WGS-84 coordinates, those locations are independent of where things are located.
So maybe that implies that for some reason it’s building the map using a relative coordinate frame. Perhaps it’s less data to transmit as deltas from a fixed point or less error in small scale measurements, since its use case is on the small (relative to geodetic coordinates) end of the world positioning scale.
Because the position of the luba responds to the initial position of the rtk unit when the initial mapping is made. It takes a very accurate GPS location coords of the rtk unit then measures everything off of that set point for the unit. It is how they stay so accurate and mow perfect lines because that set point.
Will the RTK signal get affected if positioned on the ground stick next to a 3 levels high wall of my home?
Great review by the way.
Probably not going to have problems on a normal sized lot. Now if you have acreage on the opposite side of the house it could be more iffy but it should be able to make it through.
I had a ton of issues with mine. It was horrible and already sent it back. The RTK would not connect to the mower. Then the RTK just stopped working altogether. Good luck with it
Was it a 3000 model? I heard there may be some issues with those.
Great video! Just saw a $599 wireless robot mower on Kickstarter. If it’s real, that’s amazing! Could you do a review on it?
Nice to see the underside. Is the case where the mowing happens made of metal or plastic?
Seems to be a good idea to grease the screws of the blades…
pressure wash the blades might get the dirt loose?
I see that you have also had a robomow (630?). I was an early robomow 630 adopter as far back as 2011 and am now on my 3rd rs630 mower and 2nd yard/house. I'm curious how you compare the luba to the robomow other than simply no wire. I'm thinking of buying a Luba 2 10000 for my 2.5 acres. I'm hoping since the robomow rs630 hasn't really changed much in a decade that he tech in the Luba 2 will blow me away. I have a lidar roborock vaccum which would be amazing for similar tech in a mower.
I don't remember for sure I think it was a 625. To be honest I didn't like it that much had lots of technical problems. It was broke down for probably half the summer both years I used it. Luba is nothing like it, much smarter but a lot more complicated and it cuts in nice straight rows
usually, you want to mow after 11 when the dew is gone, and it is dryer and not at night when the dew starts. that helps keep it cleaner. also do not mow within 4 hours of it raining.
one of the things i have noticed is you have to remap the whole yard if there is a small change. i have been looking at the segway one that lets you just modify the current map and not remap the whole yard. but yes i see in this one you moved one of it's points of reference so it had you remap with a new fixed point for the rtk station.
You can adjust the zones without remapping now, That ability came with one of the later updates. I don't have any solid opinions about the Segway yet. I have seen it having some trouble but I'm so has Luba haha
@@Crazypostman ah, that is good. I wish that there were more videos of the 3000, I want to see how the different front tires work
@@aaronbutler5969 hopefully I'll have one soon to make videos with
Great video, question when the mover is idle in the charging station is the RTK broadcasting a signal ? That would be a waste of power given the mover is idle most of the time. Hello from Ireland !
The RTK is always on and transmitting It's a one-way transmission. Your luba mower will receive that transmission and then compare it with its own GPS to get the very fine location
@@Crazypostman thanks?, would be cool if it went into some kind of low power standby mode. It would need some trigger from the charging station. Then again if the power consumption is low to begin with it’s not a big issue.
FluidFilm, Give that a shot.
Thanks for the suggestion!
First of all great video, very useful information, thank you! 🙏
One information I can't find anywhere: does the RTK station need to be under Wi-Fi signal? I mean, Wi-Fi from the house, in way to have access via smartphone App.
Or other way, house Wi-Fi is not needed at all?
Thank you for help 👍
Luba 1 RTK does not need Wi-Fi. I think the new Luba 2 RTK will connect to Wi-Fi.
@@Crazypostman ok, thank you 👍
Maby must the cutting blades not have the optie to turn. I know little stones... Much mowers have one plate with fixed blades. Is a good practical video! And yes the trees with leaves are the thing thats can gives trubbles ....But is for much (farm) yards a isseu I think...
I "m confused as to why the Luba can't have the station close to the house. I have a house sitting in the center of a half-acre lot, no trees, no obstacles other than the house. On the eve The transmitting gadget will have open access to the sky while the black antenna should point down past the house eve giving it line of sight to the charging station located under a porch where I have electrical outlets. Having to store the Luba in the open with electric cables seems to be a weak point for the Luba. Under what circumstances could one set up the system where the Luba used covered shelter ( I don't count that little plastic top currently sold as an accessory.
Luba needs satellite reception just like the RTK antenna. If you put Luba inside a dog house or right up against your house It could very well not work properly.
Luba needs to be five or six ft away from your house to work the best. I'm not saying it won't work but I certainly had issues and it was frustrating enough to just move Luba out now I don't have GPS issues.
Does Mammotion provide a way to save the map?
@@MsAjax409 Not currently. It's a highly requested feature.
I appreciate the review, but I’m still a bit skeptical about the price.
Do you need line of sight connection between the RTK and the base station to function properly or can you set them so they cannot ‘see’ each other?
The RTK does not need to see the mower. It's a 900 MHz link between the two It can penetrate walls. It's most important to put the RTK with the most clear view of the sky as you can get Don't worry so much about line of sight to the mower
@@Crazypostman thank you very much! One fear less!
what do you think about the EcoFlow Blade and how it would compare to this?
The luba has more cutting blades than the blade 🤣 jokes aside It does come from a more established company. You would need to compare the blade to the two wheel drive luba air. The lawn sweeper is cool and all but it's kind of gimmicky. How autonomous could it be if you would have to be around empty the bag over and over for it. It looks pretty cool though. I would have to try it out for myself before I could give a real opinion.
The problem is the Luba GPS not the one from the RTK
Correct
Hi. Can RTK be mounted remotely from the charging station, for example on the roof with a power cable or the cable from RTK must connect to charging station? You mentioned "remote kit" in the video, whats that?
In other words, can I put up RTK on the roof and plug it into the socket for power, and put the charging station somewhere in the yard far away and they dont connect with each other with cable?
Absolutely, both of my permanent luba setups the RTK is on the roof. You just have to power the RTK antenna separately. Most kits came with a extra power supply for the RTK are you sure you don't already have one? It should look like this us.mammotion.com/products/rtk-reference-station-power-supply-adapter
@@Crazypostman thanks. I dont have luba, yet. Exploring options.
Could you do another experiment and mount or RTK under the roof, inside the house somewhere. I saw a video of a guy mounting it in his attick and he said it worked great
@@Gragon I don't recommend that, it would get too hot in the attic Plus you would have a lower signal level from satellites. I'm sure it could work. But I wouldn't.
I am almost sold but I really need Luba to cut a little lower. Is there a way to get it cutting just under an inch and how do you think it will do with hybrid Bermudas?
Nope, 1.2 is the bottom. I have Bermuda on parts of the lawn and people start crying when I cut it so short... Bermuda likes to be short!
@@Crazypostman Do you have some close up photos of the cut Bermuda? This would be much appreciated.
@@trplay1 haha My Bermuda does not look good enough to compare it to anything, It's just all natural not maintained and it hasn't rained that much yet. I probably don't really have a close-up anywhere because I'm not that proud of it 😂
You have one Alan wrench in your entire house? Amazing.
It's not so much that the signal between the base antenna and Luba might get blocked but whether the house blocks either from seeing the same satellites.
Correct. So you want your RTK placed in a location to see every possible satellite the distance between Luba and the RTK is not going to be an issue...
Crazy, thank you very much for all your testing!! My condolences on losing your map. :^( I'm now leaning on "NOT" buying the Luba now after seeing those blades freeze up. Yikes! However I noticed it's got two sets of spinning blades. Most all other robo-mowers I've researched only have one.
Yeah lube is cutting ability is beast mode compared to others! Most other robots have one disc with three blades Luba has two disc with eight blades! But sadly a software update isn't going to help me loosen those screws 😂 I guess we'll figure that out in a few months when those blades wear out. Another video coming in a few minutes It's processing now.
My Luba doesn’t function. Mammotion is not responding to queries.
Terrible product, terrible customer support.
@@red32303I'd be interested in hearing more about your experience so far.
I like the fact that I don’t have to deal with dealers for installation with this one. Having had a husqvarna, I would rather deal with the lawn mowing service than the automower dealers.
How does it compare with husqvarna or Landroid? Are you able to make a video comparing with either.
I have a husqvarna but it it is Neanderthal. Perimeter wire, random mowing pattern, inconsistent mowing. It often goes outside the perimeter especially when there is a bit of slope at the boundary (well within their states limit).
I have a Husqvarna and a Robomow also both are perimeter wire random cut pattern type. I would NOT recommend the Robomower to my worst enemy! It's that bad. I haven't had many problems with the Husqvarna, It's 5 years old I've had to replace the main board on the charging station and a whole bunch of blades and that's it. I can't really compare them to the luba because they're very different machines. These GPS mowers like the luba are so much better than the random cut perimeter wire ones. Husqvarna has EPOS of course Luba and The EcoFlow blade. There's several other brands that are hit in the market soon. Yes there will be no reason to deal with a dealer because setup is so easy now.
My lawn isn’t big enough to justify spending 9000 aud on EPOS. It’s about 300 sqm only.
Are you able to mow all 3 acres with the luba or is it limited to only 1.25 by the software?
The maximum the luba 5000 can mow is 1.25 acres It will not allow you to map more than that.
There's quite a bit of the middle section of my lawn that Luba cannot do
@Crazypostman so it's a software limitation. That kinda sucks. I need to mow closer to 2 acres. I understand not overworking the little mower but as the owner I should be able to mow as much as I want. The huscavarna will cover what I need but I really like the luba.
Yes it's a software limitation luba could probably mow 8 acres per week if it was unlimited. Mammotion is going to release a commercial version that will cut more and I'm sure they limited Luba to not compete with the much more expensive commercial version, The Husqvarna is also about double the price. Mammotion says It's limited memory not a software limit but they chose to only put in a limited amount of memory during production so I say it's still probably a conscious decision not to compete with their bigger planned mower
Oh hey a robomow. I use to have one of those and loved the cutting system as it could mulch leaves really well everything else about the robomow sucked.
That's about the only thing I liked about it as well 😂 the blades were expensive but it actually did chop things up. The luba does A surprising job at chopping things up for a razor blade type cutting system I guess having eight blades helps.
@@Crazypostman yeah my automower dealer told me that husqvarna os coming out with a 5 blade system that can mulch leaves and that I will be able to upgrade my 450xh basically swap the old cutting system for the new one.
@@Crazypostman yeah but the blades on the robomow could be flipped over to extend their life and lasted way longer than the tiny racer blades. So it all comes out in the end.
I didn't see a comparison on how many satellites the RTK station could see down on the ground vs. the roof. If that number is reduced, significantly or just a bit, it will affect the number of co-viewing satellites, and make driving under trees worse, even if the RTK to mower signal is sufficient.
I'm sure it was reduced a bit, I wasn't paying attention to that aspect during this test, Just the radio link between the RTK and the mower was what I was watching. But I would assume there's probably a few less satellites received.
cutting wet grass are we?
Yes we are 🤣
Not at your wifi/extensions behind barns/ guesthouse?? I thought the transmitter didnt go through brickhouses. I have 5000 sqm and of course some is behind!! Connect to your wifi/extensions you mov behind barns/guesthouses. Husqvarna only goes on open air.... not behind house?
The RTK reference station signal will penetrate walls.
Yes If you move that then need new map
Apparently if you wanna move the RTK you have no choice but to re map the property as it all works from that one fixed point.
Yes that is the case evidently. Now I knew moving the reference station would require some recalibration but I didn't think it would actually delete all my maps. Oh well, It probably only took me 20 or 30 minutes to redo everything it goes quickly
Moral of story…if you let the mower do all your yard work for 6 days a week but won’t clean it for 30 mins once a week, you’re gonna have a bad time. Also if you reference an Allen key as a “special tool” for taking off a blade, you probably shouldn’t be buying these. When I saw the trashed other robot mower sitting outside, I knew this was not an equipment issue.
Not everybody has hex keys laying around It would be much more user friendly to use a Phillips head much more households have a flathead and a Phillips head screwdriver in their house then a full set of hex keys.
The hex key they supplied did not fit I had to go purchase another set
OK Next dogtail, whaterhoser, babyarm!STOPPs?.. toys, branches.....We have seen a bit
Yes Luba will run over most of those things. Need to make sure the yard is clear before mowing. If it's a large obstacle it can avoid it, But a waterhose it will run over.
The rtk is not an new System. But for mover it is not the best option, if it used alone. I would fix this easy with 2 rtk stations that cooperate with the mover in Addition so you can make a triangle and you have an exact Position of the mover every time. If the gps Signal lost you can say triangle help me. Simple technology. With one rtk and a mover it will be not optimal. Tree and forgot. Cloudly weather and forgot. Next way would be cam and AI. Again as additional. The problem of luba and I like it, but it has problems is they count on one system. And this system is very good but not for mover. So we will see what luba make with this. For me we bought a Experimental stuff it is cool, it has the best moving wheel system, everything fine, but the position stuff is realy bad. So maybe they will do an Upgrade I mean Hardware Upgrade with cam and we will have to send to Service and pay a little or they bring out new Version. The second would be sad cause we are theire Sponsors now. It is not like with a vaccum cleaner in past. Zhe first gen was stupid, the second was nice and worked in most case, the third with cam was nearly perfect and now it is perfect without cöimbing stairs. But the Differenzen was the frist gen 100 Euro, the second 200 Euro and the 4th gen is 800 Euro. Here we already started with 2000 Euro and up. And sp for me we are Sponsors, but the product have a big Potential.but nobody will but gen after gen. It has to be that a company try to make it modular for future Updates. And you pay 300 Euro and has again new gen. So long as we have a system that works super and not fall in water, not stoke under trees or near house on so on. So for the first 5 years I wish they think at us that bought it 2023. Cause we build up this company and have a big hope in them.
Lol I was sitting here like does he not know he has to completely remap if the rtk unit is moved at all. Even an inch. 🤦♂️
That's quite normal, if you don't clean the lawnmower regularly, it looks like this! Buy some decent tools!
Well, I clean it every time I'm at the property. Which is normally Sundays unless I have to make a special trip because it got stuck somewhere in the yard. I did go to harbor freight and bought some bits that will hopefully fit my screwdriver and make it to where I can remove these blades
LoooooooooooL
My Luba will not charge and Mammotion doesn’t reply to queries. They also lied about the ship date.
Terrible experience.
Do not buy!!