Open Circuit vs Rebreather - what is more dangerous?
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- I have been asked numerous times and when the question came up today again I decided to share my thought on it with you.
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Totally agree...we've been saying this all along, rebreathers are safer than Open Circuit!
Never had a full co2 hit, but I have overworked/overbreathed a rebreather fighting heavy flow in a cave. Recognized what was happening, stopped working. Gave it a second to see if the rebreather could scrub it or if I was going to have to bail out. Sorb did its job, and was able to continue the dive.
For years I was afraid of rebreathers. Seemed very complicated and I would hear about deaths etc… last year I purchased a prism 2, I am getting certified on it. I feel like it offers more options, less deco, and longer dives. I’m really just learning it so I can’t speak to hypercapnia and such. Thanks for the video and I’m eating cement every day. Lol
been diving the P2 for 3 years now and just loving it. Gone all the way to Tec 100 in that time
@@richardbyrom that’s awesome
Thank you for the Video! Bought my KiSS Classic just because of the training with you. mCCR all the way and Dräger LAR VII for the fun.
Thank you Achim for the continued great content.
Makes absolute sense, Achim. Great video!
The point was very well explained Achim... Thank you for you content, always crystal clear...!
I try to explain myself that question (i.e. what is more dangerous, OC vs CCR) as comparing riding a bicycle vs driving a car...
I think OC and CCR fit a purpose, like most of the gear. For diving on a reef in 20m of water(recrational), I would say OC can have less hazards and therefore it is sort of safer. For all technical diving when it comes to decompression, not able to surface with the breath you have in your lungs, I would say rebreather diving is more safe, because you have more options to solve a situation before it cause a real hazard, which you descriped very well. (Plugin offboard gas, Semiclosed rebreathing, bailing out on OC, or way before that you can shut off your O2 bottle if there is a stuck solonoid, and manually crank it open, or switch to backup electronics,...).
What I would say, rebreather diving has much more to think of and need deeper and extended knowlege of whats happening and understanding of the equipment. Sure as an OC diver you should know how a regulator works, how a first stage works, but I guess if you ask 10 persons how it works, you will not get a full explanation. If you ask 10 rebreather guys, they will answer you how OC and CCR works in every detail.(Not all of them, I know but in German we say: Die Ausnahme bestätigt die Regel)
When you think about safty, you should also count in reliablity. As a rebreather diver you will face hazards underwater and above the water. None functional O2 cells, flooded loop,...as a OC diver, its less likly that equipment will fail. Is it therefore safer? Hard to tell from this point of view.
I am also asuming it goes in the question should I start OC or CCR technical diving. In my opinion, you should start OC, because all the skills and all the habbits you learn there will nearly also apply for a CCR dive, therefore its less taskloading in my opinion.
Thanks Achim for your great Videos! (Immer eine freude deine Videos bei einem feierabend Bierchen zu schaun :) )
Best regards,
Lukas from Vienna
Could not agree more. Thanks!
This was really interesting. I did not know about the caustic chemical change. It seems like the most valuable thing you could bring either a rebreather would be time. Given the duration they seem to run you have more time to solve your problems.
It depends on the person. A rebreather is more complex, has more points of failure and requires more awareness than OC. I wouldn't recommend the average recreational diver to get a rebreather.
I am a recent CCR diver after previously doing OC tech and recreational. I look back and think that in many ways OC recreational is the more dangerous. The level of redundancy, ability to self rescue and the options available to solve a problem are huge benefits in my opinion.
I think it's safe to say that diving compressed air open circuit within recreational limits is safer for those who occasionally dive. I just done see the average recreational diver keeping up with the demands of non rebreathers . For those who really get involved in technicals and enjoy the physics of diving and are very organized, then it's safer. It's like private pilots, most likely if your taking up private piloting aircraft especially IFR then it's highly likely your doing checklists and very organized so I really think as long as the price stays elevated it's only going to draw the dive elites anyway but if the price comes down to that of open circuit then I think there will be problems.
I was a public safety diver doing rescue and recovery diving for 16 years. I have always dove OC but have been fascinated with CCR. I may have to certify in CCR now that I’m strictly recreational diving
I’ve had a CO2 hit from ccr got water in the scrubber from guessing not closing the loop all the way. Had a headache after
Hi Achim,
thanks for your videos.
I'm a tech diver but no rebreather experience. This is the second time I saw a video from you mentioning the possibility of an O2 rebreather going hypoxic and for the life of me I can't figure how that could happen. Even if accounting for the nitrogen ending up in the loop from the tissue off gassing, it sounds like it should reach an equilibrium and not exceed 50% in the loop.
I know how a normal CCR or even something like an RB80 can go hypoxic but I can't figure out what the deal is with the O2 CCR. Could you explain it? Thanks!
It can most definetely go hypoxic, for example if you dont open the oxygen bottle and dive in and ignore all the computer warnings.
ua-cam.com/video/LO024cqlAxQ/v-deo.html
Safety or risk are not absolutes. Neither do they apply solely to the equipment; the diver is part of the system too. In both OC and CCR there are equipment redundancies and reversionary modes to mitigate the risks, but the training, ability and experience of the user are also major factors. So if CCR equipment is more complex, you could argue that across the spectrum of users the CCR diver will perhaps have deeper training, higher skills and greater experience than the 'average' OC diver.
IMHO. If you dive up to 40m go open circut. its cheaper, if you ding more serious stuff go rebreather. Both can fail if you have not enough training. I think scuba gear is safer these days than ever before. I am not rich enough tobuy rebreather. But I dive mk25evo + a700 twinset, also use sidemont when solo. Every diver has to plan to keep onself safe
Do you recommend carrying bailout gas even when diving open circuit ?
The dangerous thing is not knowing one or the other and using it.
Good skill will benefit you if you're on oc or cc.
Is it that CCR requires OC bailout because CCR is more failure prone? Therefore is it that logically an OC with a bailout Pony OC unit is safer than a CCR + OC bailout?
Great video, I’m interested in rebreathers. I’m in the Northeastern US. Can you recommend an instructor for the Kiss Classic please. Thanks! Frank
Hi Frank - I would recommend myself :-) (unfortunately not exactly in your area) contact Woody Alpern - he is great.
@@CoastalDevelopment bit of Dive Talk love right there! :)
@@CoastalDevelopment to be trained by you would be a privilege and honor. Curious, room and board and cost of training? If you could, what would your best guess? The flight cost is the easiest to figure out. :)
@@francisbevacqua8014 you can send me a PM at achim@is-expl.com and we can discuss it. Thanks.
Went to bail out
what? No DEATH METAL music in the intro, your getting old lol...
Thank you Achim for the continued great content.