First up, well done, you Mark. Jim never goes down easily. This is the Forest of Hurt and Hurt it did. With both sides giving it and both sides received the same back. Same unit with 2 or more pins in the same turn regardless of the rule set. You know it's not going to end well. OK, the end result may not have been a historical result, but I think the character of the battle was historically captured. Both sides have been bled white and exhausted, and no matter what happens next, the meat grinder has begun. So, for me, this is an anniversary game, so showing us the character of the battle was more important. What I would not want to see is something like a late 90s US documentary on the Battle of the Bulge. Yeah, they scared us at first, but we picked ourselves up and kicked butt. Completely robbing us of the human desperation, sacrifice, and the miracle that the green troops somehow didn't panic and followed their training. This game delivered and stole nothing from the men. Your Germans did a spectacular comeback until someone asked Hans where's the jerry cans were, and he answered what jerry cans. Great game, guys, very suspenseful. Thank you.
Indeed, this was a helluva fight, James. Part of it was the players, of course ... part of it was also all those special counters drawn early in the game on both sides. This meant we had high losses with no one approaching their break point, i.e., both sides were "standing tall" for Iron Crosses and Silver Stars. By the end not only had the game run 4 hours, but neither of us had practically anything left. ALL tanks and tanks destroyers were killed or immobilized. All on borad artillert was out except light mortars (his 60mm and my 5.0 cm). We both had some halftracks and 25% of our shot up infantry. And yeah, between the "Ammo Low" counter in Part One and the "Immobilized" in Part Two, looks like my commander will be having a word with our supply ordinance and POL officer. Meanwhile, Mark will be having a brisk word with his FAO, after Turn One I don't think he got successful off-board artillery rolls once. Thanks for watching, hope you enjoyed it!
@JamesJohnson-wq6bs Yes, it was one of those games where both players got sucked in, chewed up, and spat out by the game. It is just a nasty corner of Europe. Hurtgen Forest, Battle of Aachen, Battle of the Bulge and Operation Nordwind, but not in that order. A lot of gamers sort of miss that it basically happens in the same geographic region. Too many just do the Battle of the Bulge and then off to do the Rhine. So it is a partly forgotten front as the Battle of the Bulge steals the lime light. This is a shame as the other battles deserve to be remembered, and they offer some great and different gaming opportunities. I'll admit vehicle wise we don't have any better luck at Hurtgen either. In FoW, aircraft don't do well here either. It's hard to hit with the cover the trees offer or its danger close to your troops. We normally play later, so you're deeper in the forest, and the hill lines and ridges are steeper. So, the ranged line of sight is much harder to find. The other guys must have had the same trouble as we both opted for 2 reinforced companies. To make it more spicy, we rolled MG fire as normal but added a red dice which you ignore unless it rolled a 1, which caused a jam and needed a skill check to clear. It did cause some interesting moments. Things like the red dice are not so much a house rule, but you could call it a house event that players can elect to choose if games have been too similar recently. Another is snow increasing with possibly a blizzard later. We do use weather and time of day a fare bit. Anyway, it was a very interesting game to watch and you could feel the exhaustion settling in. I'm looking forward to your next game.
@@jamesevans886 Completely agree about how the BUlge steals the spotlight. Kind of ironic when it comes to Nordwind. Since some of the units the Germans wanted to use in Wacht am Rhein ... never made it into the battle, and were instead used in Nordwind ... but many people still insist (and incorrectly use in wargames) those units in the Bulge, when the should be used in Nordwind. Yeah, aircraft had a tough time in the Hurtgen forest, not only with the tree cover but the bad weather with autumn rains. Indeed, both our armies were worn down to the nub, the backhand side-effect of all those special counters drawn earlier in the game.
@JamesJohnson-wq6bs For history stealing I think of it as the Stalingrad-Kursk of the West. Panzer Lehr is another misused division on the gaming table. It was about to withdraw from the Lorraine for the Bulge when US launched another offensive. Panzer Lehr is brought back to check it at the cost of most of its Pz-4 and Panther tanks. Yes it did make the Battle of the Bulge but as basically a PG division and not as a full strength Panzer Division as I too often see. I am looking forward to the inspired gaming when you return from the Ardennes. Have you been there before?
Hard battle to make on a mini table. The trees were so thick at Hurtgen. Like when I drew the map for Sylva Blitz, I had to cut down on the actual trees or every hex on the map would have 6 green sides
Indeed. I brought every single tree I had (except palm trees), and asked Mark to bring a bunch of his trees as well. Also, I cut the table from 8x6 to 6x6 to increase tree density. I still don't think we had enough. There were too many long lines of sight on the table for the real reel of the Hurtgen Forest.
The 88 I kind of expected. Those Mark IVs hurt though, they were definitelyt my MVPs in this game. Mark's FIVE special counters didn't help either. If even half of those had been normal counters I almost certainly would have won (an extra 5-8 points against his Battlegroup breakpoint). Thanks very much once again! Glad you liked the new content!
Very close one. The way you guys were drawing special counters, at least one of the ones for the airstrike would have been one, so the difference between US/Germans wouldn't have been as big as you think.
Another great watch! Thank you.
Thanks very much! Glad you liked it!
First up, well done, you Mark. Jim never goes down easily. This is the Forest of Hurt and Hurt it did. With both sides giving it and both sides received the same back. Same unit with 2 or more pins in the same turn regardless of the rule set. You know it's not going to end well. OK, the end result may not have been a historical result, but I think the character of the battle was historically captured. Both sides have been bled white and exhausted, and no matter what happens next, the meat grinder has begun. So, for me, this is an anniversary game, so showing us the character of the battle was more important. What I would not want to see is something like a late 90s US documentary on the Battle of the Bulge. Yeah, they scared us at first, but we picked ourselves up and kicked butt. Completely robbing us of the human desperation, sacrifice, and the miracle that the green troops somehow didn't panic and followed their training. This game delivered and stole nothing from the men. Your Germans did a spectacular comeback until someone asked Hans where's the jerry cans were, and he answered what jerry cans. Great game, guys, very suspenseful. Thank you.
Indeed, this was a helluva fight, James. Part of it was the players, of course ... part of it was also all those special counters drawn early in the game on both sides. This meant we had high losses with no one approaching their break point, i.e., both sides were "standing tall" for Iron Crosses and Silver Stars. By the end not only had the game run 4 hours, but neither of us had practically anything left. ALL tanks and tanks destroyers were killed or immobilized. All on borad artillert was out except light mortars (his 60mm and my 5.0 cm). We both had some halftracks and 25% of our shot up infantry. And yeah, between the "Ammo Low" counter in Part One and the "Immobilized" in Part Two, looks like my commander will be having a word with our supply ordinance and POL officer. Meanwhile, Mark will be having a brisk word with his FAO, after Turn One I don't think he got successful off-board artillery rolls once. Thanks for watching, hope you enjoyed it!
@JamesJohnson-wq6bs Yes, it was one of those games where both players got sucked in, chewed up, and spat out by the game. It is just a nasty corner of Europe. Hurtgen Forest, Battle of Aachen, Battle of the Bulge and Operation Nordwind, but not in that order. A lot of gamers sort of miss that it basically happens in the same geographic region. Too many just do the Battle of the Bulge and then off to do the Rhine. So it is a partly forgotten front as the Battle of the Bulge steals the lime light. This is a shame as the other battles deserve to be remembered, and they offer some great and different gaming opportunities.
I'll admit vehicle wise we don't have any better luck at Hurtgen either. In FoW, aircraft don't do well here either. It's hard to hit with the cover the trees offer or its danger close to your troops. We normally play later, so you're deeper in the forest, and the hill lines and ridges are steeper. So, the ranged line of sight is much harder to find. The other guys must have had the same trouble as we both opted for 2 reinforced companies. To make it more spicy, we rolled MG fire as normal but added a red dice which you ignore unless it rolled a 1, which caused a jam and needed a skill check to clear. It did cause some interesting moments. Things like the red dice are not so much a house rule, but you could call it a house event that players can elect to choose if games have been too similar recently. Another is snow increasing with possibly a blizzard later. We do use weather and time of day a fare bit. Anyway, it was a very interesting game to watch and you could feel the exhaustion settling in. I'm looking forward to your next game.
@@jamesevans886 Completely agree about how the BUlge steals the spotlight. Kind of ironic when it comes to Nordwind. Since some of the units the Germans wanted to use in Wacht am Rhein ... never made it into the battle, and were instead used in Nordwind ... but many people still insist (and incorrectly use in wargames) those units in the Bulge, when the should be used in Nordwind.
Yeah, aircraft had a tough time in the Hurtgen forest, not only with the tree cover but the bad weather with autumn rains.
Indeed, both our armies were worn down to the nub, the backhand side-effect of all those special counters drawn earlier in the game.
@JamesJohnson-wq6bs For history stealing I think of it as the Stalingrad-Kursk of the West. Panzer Lehr is another misused division on the gaming table. It was about to withdraw from the Lorraine for the Bulge when US launched another offensive. Panzer Lehr is brought back to check it at the cost of most of its Pz-4 and Panther tanks. Yes it did make the Battle of the Bulge but as basically a PG division and not as a full strength Panzer Division as I too often see. I am looking forward to the inspired gaming when you return from the Ardennes. Have you been there before?
Hard battle to make on a mini table. The trees were so thick at Hurtgen. Like when I drew the map for Sylva Blitz, I had to cut down on the actual trees or every hex on the map would have 6 green sides
Indeed. I brought every single tree I had (except palm trees), and asked Mark to bring a bunch of his trees as well. Also, I cut the table from 8x6 to 6x6 to increase tree density. I still don't think we had enough. There were too many long lines of sight on the table for the real reel of the Hurtgen Forest.
Losing the 88 and the two Mk IVs was a big hit. That's a lot of firepower on the German side. Great scenario, table, playthrough and AAR!
The 88 I kind of expected. Those Mark IVs hurt though, they were definitelyt my MVPs in this game. Mark's FIVE special counters didn't help either. If even half of those had been normal counters I almost certainly would have won (an extra 5-8 points against his Battlegroup breakpoint). Thanks very much once again! Glad you liked the new content!
Very close one. The way you guys were drawing special counters, at least one of the ones for the airstrike would have been one, so the difference between US/Germans wouldn't have been as big as you think.
Well, I'll say this much for certain. If we didn't draw so many special counters, the game certainly would have ended SOONER!
Thanks for making this!
No worries! Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching and for the friendly comment!
How many special counters THIS time?
Quite a few again, but not as many as part one.