>Trial of the Crusader >Remembered for its music I don't remember this.. What music is he refer- >I AM JARAXXUS, EREDAR LORD OF THE BURNING LEGION Ohhhh... Right...
The Argent Tournament was my favourite part of the entire game. The ambient and battle music is of unbelievable quality, and though the jousting mechanics were a little wonky, it felt like an immersive Medieval faire. Just look up Tournament of Ages, the RP servers keep it going every year and really make the most of the area.
The MMO are dying because new gen wants fast games, short queue times, lots of loots. and MMO needs TIME, is a more slow gameplay, take time forming groups. Most of players dont want this, and the other players dont have the time.
I think most peoples have the time. They just choose to spend it on something else while complaining "they have no time" playing mmos so they want mmos to catter to their busy schedual like the little snowflakes they are. In the process they ruin the industry for everyone else. Sad really.
Over all World of Warcraft is the best game i've ever played. I started in WoTLK and yeah got called a wrath baby but I didn't care, had some real life long experiences in that expansion. Even to this day i'm still making tons of new experiences despite the lows and highs. Love this game.
the game is what we make of it. i too have been playing for a wile and wrath babys are season pros now lol been at it myself since BC. if u sit in org and just que all day yea the xpac sucks but if u go out talk with ppl you know actually enjoy the game for what it is then every xpac will be fun
@@johnnymoorejr4789 Exactly! The game is made these days where you CAN play lazy IF you chose to. For example, i've been going to Stormwind on my rogue every day for the past 3 weeks to gank people, now I have several new friends Horde AND Alliance, on top of that now the RP community on the Ally side knows my character by name and I talk to many of these people on the daily. I'm making fun where I can. LFG, LFR and just spamming BG's does get rather boring after a while, but there's fun to be had in other places if you have the will to look for it.
@@Aerophina see u get it me and my girl play every day and we make the most of if. just last night we decided to lv up some nightbornes right. well as we were questing a new player a actual new play from our server just happen to run into us. i checked out his gear saw that he had 0 boas, so i gave him 300 gold and decided to do dungs with him till he was done. we ended up running with him till like 5 this morning cts. lol it was awesome.
Johnny Moore Jr That's always the best feeling when you're able to help out other players. Especially the new ones. People like to say WoW doesn't bring in new players but that's such a load of shit. The ease of access makes it easier for people to give it a try. I had an Orc RPer come up to me in Org a couple days ago and tell me "I ORC. I WORK FOR COPPER. ORC KNOW COPPER." So I paid him gold to go a spit on people and get drunk lmao. Then just before that I gave a guy a few thousand gold just so he could get his profession upgrade or whatever and he was very thankful. Just yesterday my buddie teamed up with me and we took on Stormwind again for a while. All of these examples give me fun and enjoyment. None of it has to be mythic raids or anything, just fun with friends and randoms doing random things. Hell I still see server community too. Guilds know my guild, they know me, my guild knows them, they speak to Alliance guilds too. Many of the big names know the other big names on the server. I'm excited as hell for Classic but I'm definitely planning on continuing playing BFA even when that comes out.
Oh man, I remember doing 3 drake. Due to how pets worked at the time and how stats scaled with them, my guild had my pet (was a warlock) main tank the big dragon. My voidwalker had more HP then top main tanks at the time when I was in my stamina gear and also had a 95% chance of avoiding all AoE damage meaning it could cheese almost every mechanic in the raid while tanking. Goes to show, even back then Blizzard had no idea what they were doing when it came to class design and mechanics.
ExpletiveRedacted It didn't matter back then how classes were, it was an RPG and finding cool, interesting and fun ways to do things was what mattered. Now they have the same problems in class design as back then, but today they try to finely tune and strangle the game to be one specific way they want it to be, and the game cannot handle that with their shitty bfa class design.They did amazing class design in MoP but ruined it somehow, and now they have literal 10 ability classes that they can't manage to design or balance.
A few days ago I did a Siege of Boralus Mythic dungeon with a hunter tank pet.. Just sayin.. Apparently you can do "interesting things" in BFA as well..
it really didnt. but if you want to believe. it had more balancing than 8.0/8.1. wotlk. you do your dailies, you do your hero dungeons, you pvp and wait for a raid that hopefully didnt fall apart from burnout or some raid officer/leader having a mental breakdown because the dps replacement for 1 of the lead dps that burned out just step your entire raid progression back an entire encounter. lol no one remembers that crap.
@@DirtCheapFU thankfully, I've always been a part of a heroic raid guild so none of those issues you speak of were ever an issue. The only time I can remember anything like that happening was doing the timed chest in the Nexus.
I still remember the last moment when I felt that WoW was still on the rise. It was patch 3.1. After that patch, everything slowly started to get worse and worse. There were always little positives but the average trend from that moment onward was a slow downward spiral. I think people can say that Vanilla was best or TBC was best or early Wrath was best but they were all GREAT. The people that favorite one of those three can usually agree on stuff and find a lot of common ground. But the latter half of Wrath, starting with 8.2, is the point where most people collectively start complaining about the game going downhill.
There is a chance, I've been raiding with a Bliz employee since WoD, so we chat quite often. Depending on how Classic does for the 1st year or so, we might see a TBC and Wrath realm...but all depends on if enough players enjoy and stick with Classic. Here's to hoping it works out :)
You're experience in Wrath is completely 100% exactly how mine was. Awesome Video Bellular!! Oh and I have the Swift Horde Wolf you get for the old achieve. "A tribute to insanity"
I think overall Wrath was a fantastic expansion. Arguably the high point for WOW (although I prefer TBC), BUT, I also think it was the beginning of the end for wow and starting with the tail end of Wrath Blizzard started to prioritize convenience over everything that made the game great.
Their fatal misstep was getting caught in the accessibility trap and playing towards the wants of whingers too much. LFG / LFR / Sharding / Cross - Realm micro servers instead of just merging smaller realms together. They also used to care about pre-expansion events. The best event I ever experienced in WoW is still the undead plague, it was just fun and, yes, annoying as hell. The real truth is though, life is annoying, it's supposed to put obstacles in your way, and by overcoming these obstacles you find meaning and satisfaction. Blizzard just took all of the obstacles and turned them into tiny hurdles that you could walk around in most cases.
@@Trainwheel_Time You need to check again. Subs peaked in wotlk right before cataclysm launched and then they started a steady decline one it did finally launch.
"Used to care about pre-expanion events"? Did you just forget the burning of teldrassil AND the battle for lordaeron?The BfA pre-patch was by far the biggest we've seen. And truth be told, WoW has only managed to keep staying relevant because it adopted a more casual focus. Most people either can't or don't want to spend such a huge amount of time on grinding when the gaming market has so much to offer. You just dislike the fact that the game has changed, which is fine, but that doesn't mean the game objectively sucks or isn't fun just because you dislike it.
@@Hugo-mh1pe well thats true, but BfA is indeed bad bad story, bad gameplay, and most of things that they bring to the game arent fun at all, and i dont think its true that it managed to keep it relevant because it adopted a more casual focus rather because the game had such a huge fanbase that they rather stick to the game even when the game was not of their liking, it seems to me more that its a illusion that people have that the game stayed relevant because it become more casual content when wow started to go down with the introduction of more and more casual content, its not entirely bad to have some casual content tho... well at least thats how it seems to me.
@@EnuoAkatsuki No, the story and gameplay being bad is your own damn opinion. And while that's at least subjective, I really don't think WoW could've survived as the game it used to be. Most old time wow players have grown up and don't have as much time to spend on the game and younger people aren't really intro the grinding aspect of it, because newflash, it was never all that fun. The game has moved away from grinds and build-ups and is more about the actual experiences themselves and getting decent rewards within a reasonable timeframe. Spending MONTHS to aquire a set of raiding gear is just not realistic anymore. I'm sure a great deal of players would still enjoy that gameplay but it's not sustainable and was really flawed. It worked then and people enjoyed it, that's great, but no way it'd work now. The funny thing is that WoW has always been more accessible than it's competition, that's why it was so successful. It's just staying on top of it's own ideals, weird how no one can see that.
Shout out to the players that were playing as soon as vanilla launched, its just time to let go no hate whatsoever, wow was a beautiful experience for my childhood. R. I. P
The one thing I hated about Wrath was the raid progression. One raid per tier began here. Also, I didn't like that the heroic dungeon in the Coliseum totally killed Ulduar. Back in Burning Crusade, raiders were still running Karazhan right up until the night before Wrath started... but in Wrath, nobody ran Ulduar after the Trial of the Crusader raid debuted. I thought that sucked.
The same week Icecrown Citadel was introduced I came to the troubling realization that *WoW was eating my life* and even negatively impacting my RL job. I suddenly quit raiding, dropped out of my guild and vowed to only play casually a couple times a week. Completely missed Icecrown Citadel. Never even saw the inside of the place until spring 2018. So, looking forward to learning about it in your next video =)
In the previous video, you precisely -- and I think, uniquely -- contrasted Wrath's popular and effective progression pacing with modern WoW. This video, you totally resist conventional wisdom about Argent Tournament and recognize it for the triumph of setting and theatrics that it was. Bravo.
Algalon didn't unlock from beating Yogg btw. It was a quest dropped by the harder Hard Mode of the Assembly of Iron that required you to beat the Hard Mode of all 4 Keeper bosses.
Which could actually work as a different type of game - raid based competetive team based gameplay, but it's 100% rng and mythic isn't worth it.. so they ruined that aswell. Thats why people enjoyed Legion, it was good for raiding
why won't they address these concerns from the community? Its like they just ignore us when we tell them this, they should make another game for their casual playerbase full of microtransactions
It's because you are the minority.. Personally, the moment WoW devs start listening to people like you, I will stop playing WoW... The reason I play WoW now is because the game adapts to my free time, which is not consistent.. And no I am no casual.. I am hardcore.. I am just not consistently hardcore.. That would punish me hard in the WoW version you long for.. But right now? It's no big deal.. People who just invest more time are no better than me.. And that's how it should be.. Skill should determine your position in the game.. Not just time.. Last but not least, the reason I get new people into WoW is because I explain to them there are catch up mechanics.. It's not like you will never able to reach the power of the old players (which is not the case for other MMOs) P.S. Yes you are the minority, the majority of the playerbase does not bother at all with forums, reddit and youtube videos.. That's a fact either you like it or not..
@@wallhackergotdammit um...it's still the biggest MMORPG, boasting more active users than any other by a very wide margin, and for that very reason, it isn't going anywhere.
Trial of the Crusader was where all went to shit, they introduced gear that made the best Raid ever ignorable and a lackluster mini raid/instance. For me this was the beginning of the end for wow
20:35 this is what I said in my tweet today to watcher and the dev team. I said "how I long for the days when you actually had to work for your ilvl (vanilla, BC). before you could step into naxxramas: dungeons < MC < BWL < AQ40 < naxx. same in BC. But now in BFA: Heroic dungeon < Battle For Dazar.. There is no progression anymore." 23:55 ywah, it blew my mind so much, I instantly quit the game after hearing about what cataclysm was going to be, I didn't play WoW again until patch 5.3 or 5.4. I instead waiting almost a year for the long anticipated Star Wars the Old Republic and it after almost a year of waiting, it did not disappoint, it was so much fun, I didn't miss WoW at all. after about 2 years of playing it, finally had enough for a while after bioware nerfed all the classes I likled playing, the game wasn't as fun anymore. long story short. Cayaclysm was the beginning of the end for WoW, 12.5 million subs at the end of Wrath and they have never reached that number since, I think they got 10 million in Legion, but now we must be below WoD numbers for sure.
In this vid I noticed the amp/recorded in the back left of the vid. And for most the vid I have been staring at the green ring as it lights up when Bel talks and fades when he breathes.
In Wrath, Blizzard should have added an item called "Magical Earplugs" that gave you a perma-buff that lasted through death and prevented you from hearing the boss kill callouts.
@@samtemdo8 I get where you're coming from. But a game doesn't need to be fast pace to be enjoyable. Back in the day wow almost felt like a turn-based RPG which is fine for a lot of people and not so much for others. You can never satisfy 100% of the people. Pick your poison and stick with it lol.
I remember playing a hunter in Classic with a whopping 17 APM. I could literally go 8 seconds without pushing a button while doing optimal DPS. That's not engaging. I'd rather play something GCD-capped with a good decision tree than "I'm gonna push 1, now I'm gonna push 2, now I'm gonna sit for 6 seconds and watch paint dry." Then again, I came into WoW from Diablo 2 and City Of Heroes, both of which were a lot more "push more buttons to kill shit faster!" than WoW was until Wrath. I also don't miss 15 minute boss fights.
@@MarcoFerrari179 Unfortunately for you. WOW playing like Turn-based strategy game was not gonna make last into the future because it was slow and boring. There was reason why RPGs have moved away from antiquated game design because naturally real time combat is more accessible then whatever WOW's gameplay was back in Vanilla.
gmee123 feel free to correct me but all Wrath dailies gave you was gold and reputation for the beginning of the expansion until the argent tournament dailies. But even with better rewards (Mark of the Champion), the dailies were very much the same and a lot more repetitive.
Funny to watch this video and see you talking about the tournament dailies. I've been doing them every day for the past week or so trying to champion all factions. They're still a lot of fun today and that says something.
Thank you very much for these videos. As someone who wasn't allowed to play WoW during that time, being able to see and experience this through someone else's eyes is greatly appreciated!
Early Wrath was what you get when you throw a little spice in to your favorite dish, 3.2 and especially Cata was what you get when you dump the whole bottle of spice on your dish.
Watching this makes me think of what could have been - if Azjol Nerub had been a zone and 8+ boss raid, between Ulduar and Icecrown (perhaps instead of Trial of the Crusader, despite my personal love for that raid). It would have been epic, like the adventurous maze of BrD in raid form!
@@R0ssMacPherson True. But LFG was only added at the end of the expansion (3.3), and it's a smaller mistake than LFR since Raids are supposed to be the longest and hardcore content which require lots of coordination and teamwork. But I get your point.
Just my opinion, but I don't think they cut the life of ULDUAR short by releasing trial of the crusader. I think many guilds found ulduar intimidating due to it's size/scale/time involved, and also much more difficult compared to NAXX. Big change from Naxx easy mode to Ulduar being hard even on regular mode. If anything, I think TOC extended Ulduar playability at the time before the release of ICC. Reason being people could knock out TOC early in the week, and then work on ULDUAR the rest of the week. TOC got many people back into raiding that ULDUAR was just a bit too overwhelming for them. Ulduar still had so many cool things to do, achievements to earn, etc... that TOC gear helped people progress on it that perhaps struggled before. I think it paired quite well together before ICC came out.
Raiding should never have had a Heroic mode imo, but if there is a way to make it harder to get access to more loot Raids should have continued with the Ulduar “hard mode trigger.” Why they didn’t follow that model greatly confuses me.
A bit more digging, Bellular, and you will see that it started in TBC actually. Wrath was actually a CONTINUATION of QoLs and massive re-design implemented in TBC. Flying was introduced in TBC, and with it, the "need" for "speed" led to LFD in Wrath. Arena was introduced in TBC, and with it, the "need" for "less people" led to 10 men raids in Wrath. Heroic modes were introduced in TBC, and with it, the community was even more split. And so on.
still a little surprising how many design decisions they got right in Wrath but didn't try again. GDC just posted an interesting lecture by Travis Day discussing how the reward system of WoW/D3 evolved and some of the mistakes they made over the years. It adds a bit more behind the scenes context to gear of this era.
I loved soo much those days... Even being casual, it allowed me to do raids and heroics which where fun and entertaining. By the way, I play wow since patch 1.10 LOL
I think that instead of being a full tier, it would've made sense for the Trial of the Crusader to be used narratively to grant a special weapon from the Kirin Tor for the player to use in Icecrown. You know, like Legion but it would've made more sense. It also wouldn't have made Ulduar irrelevant and literally skippable.
ah the memories hit me now...and yes, onyxia was such fun...super epic...u gather a group of people from the server( bring server community back and quit guilds) and go have fun basicly
Wrath brought overall a lot of good features from my memory, it did make the game more casual (which probably catered to me being a kid in school and never that good/hardcore), I think what did start to kill the game was too much lfg, it killed immersion and wows outside world that you could just sit in dalaran queue and be teleported to a dungeon without ever having go there on your mount
Quality of Life=Erosion of sense of world, immersion, and sense of gratifying progression. This video made me realize that WoW was truly an immersive, epic and meaningful MMO experience from launch until the release of Wrath.
Why? Becuse we had problem with ppl leaving so we constantly needed new ppl and better guilds took our top players. So had to gear up alot of ppl. 2 of The raids was not mandatory but i was raid leader so lead all raids.
Ugh I hated gear score so much... I had taken a break from the game and when I came back everyone was talking about gear scores and then no one would let me raid which really pissed me off because they were raids I was used to being top dps in and now I was being told I wasn't geared enough to join and I was just so dumbfounded and angry...
decentradical It’s almost like there’s a difference between the promised changes, the effects of the changes that these people were optimistic for, and the actual execution of those changes. But let’s not bring things like integrity and nuance into your shitpost.
@@Brat2513 This will not happen. In BFA we are saying the game was better in WOD but we still know WOD was a dumpsterfire of an expansion.... WoW will not survive to 2025 at this rate and I cannot see how they could make something worse than BFA
I loved wotlk i remember the discussion at the time coming out of bc it was clear that a large chunk of content was only ever seen by highend raiding guild which was a waste. It opened up the game so everyone could enjoy the content. Ulduar is still an awesome place and raid. I still love my starcaller title, but when my mount dropped off the LK on 25 man that was a great moment. Also the community and guild was strong and meaningful, very little hate social media content but more positive mmo champion discussions. The player base was at its peek it was the golden era for warcraft. Cataclysm killed many things including many guilds and communities. Warcraft will always be about people and not content.
as a oceanic server hick, i must say ulduar did have a couple at least 3 more months in her for me at least, we'd progressed through server firsts up until yogg, which just brick walled us.. it ended up that trial of the crusader was so poorly fucking optimized it killed half our raids connections and we could only just barely make it past boss two on heroic.. blizzard said "we wont do nothing" and we were forced to xfer servers to keep progress and never went back to yogg.
So far i have watched countless videos but no one ever mentioned thr actual part content people enjoyed... Spirit beasts... Was a big thing to do Exlusive items like BMAH And TCG market blizzard droped these things long time now and its sad
I know its a tiny thing, but theres' a green flashing light in the bottom left of the studio shot that's REALLY distracting. Can you cover it next time?
I wonder how/if the future course of the game would have been changed if they'd kept their finger on the pulse and delayed Call of the Crusade until Ulduar had been more thoroughly cleared.
As Wrath lived it life, it also brought in player toxicity and elitism. It was the begining of the end for alot of things. Gearscore was the worst invention ever, a players skill was attributed to their GS, which was basically free to obtain.
Gear score was much more worse then people understood. People could be geared by their friends to get into runs that they had no idea how to deal with because they lacked the skill. I could out damage and out live other people in blues because I had far better player skills and yet I would sometimes be turned out just because my gear score. The worse part was when I had to posted meters for fights just to prove that even thought I had a low gear score I sure as fuck wasn't the weak link as I was always at the top of the meters. It was annoying for like 3-4 weeks after that I was pretty much geared in the best, but it does change how shitty of an experience it was.
I think you missed out on something with the approach of Cataclysm. The player base despised a lot of the proposed class changes. The forums were on fire about many of them. Which is one contributing reason subs fell so sharply. I'm sure there were many others. Hunter changes and the addition of focus + casted shots is a good example. We all absolutely abhorred some of the class changes and pleaded, threatened, cried, complained, posted and screamed about them to no avail. You might have been too young at the time to pay attention? However the vibe from the Cata prepatch was that. Dread, not hype. We begged and pleaded for a lot of changes to be reverted. Didn't take too long after it launched for the numbers to dive. The game for many of us just wasn't fun anymore. I don't recall hype, I recall a lot of very loud "this isn't fun" complaints. Let's not forget the last dance of the trees in Dalaran. Some changes just didn't make sense. Still don't. The game was and still is somewhat less fun than it was in WotLK thanks to those class changes. That's the vibe as I felt it. It's obvious other people saw different vibes at that time.
Played since Vanilla, loved TBC, absolutely adored WotLK. Pretty much hated everything cataclysm onward. _especially_ pandaland. Lich King was also the last time I can say that I actually enjoyed playing my classes. I mean, by then I had max level everything, except maybe a priest...but my lock was fantastic. My hunter was a dream. My paladin was a tanking monster. And every expansion and every patch since then has just widdled down and normalized everything that made the game fun. It removed all the flavor from the game. Where once I had full hotbars and a whole slew of hotkeys and macros and had to think about how I wanted to weave my abilities for a given fight, now I have to pick a cookie cutter spec and have the same rotation in just about every situation -- and it's generally 3-4 buttons depending on the class. You could play modern WoW with a SNES controller. There's just no variety anymore. There's no engagement. The game is now just a single player game full of NPCs with a chatroom.
![World of Warcraft Cataclysm... 8 Years Later: The Beginning Of WoW's Decline [1/2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vz1AS8r1VAs/mqdefault.jpg)
13:50 "The best game the raid has ever seen" hahaha. I love you Bel.
Thug Muffin haha had to replay that to make sure he said one of the best games the raid has seen 😂
that freudian slip
>Trial of the Crusader
>Remembered for its music
I don't remember this.. What music is he refer-
>I AM JARAXXUS, EREDAR LORD OF THE BURNING LEGION
Ohhhh... Right...
That moment when you realize that 3.1 brought more to the table than the whole of BfA so far. #WishForWotLKServer
They do have private servers. Someone I know that's definitely not me is playing on one that has updated models and textures atm. =P
@@naejimba warmane?
The Argent Tournament was my favourite part of the entire game. The ambient and battle music is of unbelievable quality, and though the jousting mechanics were a little wonky, it felt like an immersive Medieval faire. Just look up Tournament of Ages, the RP servers keep it going every year and really make the most of the area.
The MMO are dying because new gen wants fast games, short queue times, lots of loots. and MMO needs TIME, is a more slow gameplay, take time forming groups. Most of players dont want this, and the other players dont have the time.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head.
I think most peoples have the time. They just choose to spend it on something else while complaining "they have no time" playing mmos so they want mmos to catter to their busy schedual like the little snowflakes they are. In the process they ruin the industry for everyone else. Sad really.
No king rules forever, its been a long fun ride.. goodbye wow
F PepeHands
Just know, you definitely aren’t alone
Overused comment
@Brendan Frieders u over rate curent wow too much
Classic is not far away.
F
Over all World of Warcraft is the best game i've ever played. I started in WoTLK and yeah got called a wrath baby but I didn't care, had some real life long experiences in that expansion. Even to this day i'm still making tons of new experiences despite the lows and highs. Love this game.
the game is what we make of it. i too have been playing for a wile and wrath babys are season pros now lol been at it myself since BC. if u sit in org and just que all day yea the xpac sucks but if u go out talk with ppl you know actually enjoy the game for what it is then every xpac will be fun
@@johnnymoorejr4789 Exactly! The game is made these days where you CAN play lazy IF you chose to. For example, i've been going to Stormwind on my rogue every day for the past 3 weeks to gank people, now I have several new friends Horde AND Alliance, on top of that now the RP community on the Ally side knows my character by name and I talk to many of these people on the daily.
I'm making fun where I can. LFG, LFR and just spamming BG's does get rather boring after a while, but there's fun to be had in other places if you have the will to look for it.
@@Aerophina see u get it me and my girl play every day and we make the most of if. just last night we decided to lv up some nightbornes right. well as we were questing a new player a actual new play from our server just happen to run into us. i checked out his gear saw that he had 0 boas, so i gave him 300 gold and decided to do dungs with him till he was done. we ended up running with him till like 5 this morning cts. lol it was awesome.
Johnny Moore Jr That's always the best feeling when you're able to help out other players. Especially the new ones. People like to say WoW doesn't bring in new players but that's such a load of shit. The ease of access makes it easier for people to give it a try.
I had an Orc RPer come up to me in Org a couple days ago and tell me "I ORC. I WORK FOR COPPER. ORC KNOW COPPER." So I paid him gold to go a spit on people and get drunk lmao.
Then just before that I gave a guy a few thousand gold just so he could get his profession upgrade or whatever and he was very thankful.
Just yesterday my buddie teamed up with me and we took on Stormwind again for a while.
All of these examples give me fun and enjoyment. None of it has to be mythic raids or anything, just fun with friends and randoms doing random things.
Hell I still see server community too. Guilds know my guild, they know me, my guild knows them, they speak to Alliance guilds too. Many of the big names know the other big names on the server.
I'm excited as hell for Classic but I'm definitely planning on continuing playing BFA even when that comes out.
Oh man, I remember doing 3 drake. Due to how pets worked at the time and how stats scaled with them, my guild had my pet (was a warlock) main tank the big dragon. My voidwalker had more HP then top main tanks at the time when I was in my stamina gear and also had a 95% chance of avoiding all AoE damage meaning it could cheese almost every mechanic in the raid while tanking.
Goes to show, even back then Blizzard had no idea what they were doing when it came to class design and mechanics.
Pets just had 90% reduction to aoe damage taken rather than a chance to avoid.
ExpletiveRedacted It didn't matter back then how classes were, it was an RPG and finding cool, interesting and fun ways to do things was what mattered. Now they have the same problems in class design as back then, but today they try to finely tune and strangle the game to be one specific way they want it to be, and the game cannot handle that with their shitty bfa class design.They did amazing class design in MoP but ruined it somehow, and now they have literal 10 ability classes that they can't manage to design or balance.
I tanked the boss with my pet as well. Had to farm PVP gear to get more stamina so my pet would be big and fat :D
A few days ago I did a Siege of Boralus Mythic dungeon with a hunter tank pet.. Just sayin..
Apparently you can do "interesting things" in BFA as well..
@@alexey6288 was it 90% reduction? man it's been a while!
Damn 3.1 had more content than 8.0 and 8.1 together...
it really didnt. but if you want to believe. it had more balancing than 8.0/8.1. wotlk. you do your dailies, you do your hero dungeons, you pvp and wait for a raid that hopefully didnt fall apart from burnout or some raid officer/leader having a mental breakdown because the dps replacement for 1 of the lead dps that burned out just step your entire raid progression back an entire encounter. lol no one remembers that crap.
Ian-Devon Lewis still was drastically more to do within the world than BFA so far
sclSolitarium No. It did not. Now you’re just digging a hole to no where. Might want to bring out that drawing board and do some better comparisons.
Hold your horses a bit, the real 8.1 comes out next tuesday/wednesday.
@@DirtCheapFU thankfully, I've always been a part of a heroic raid guild so none of those issues you speak of were ever an issue. The only time I can remember anything like that happening was doing the timed chest in the Nexus.
God how I miss Old World of Warcraft.... Take me back to 3.1 please.
Plenty of 3.3.5 servers
The Lich King was my favorite antagonist/character in WoW I just luv the whole scourge theme and I miss WotLK.
WoW Classic coming out in summer
GunPoint summer... so August knowing blizzard... half the community is over bfa.
@@StereotypeLucas i think we might see a june/july release considering the state of BfA...
I still remember the last moment when I felt that WoW was still on the rise. It was patch 3.1. After that patch, everything slowly started to get worse and worse. There were always little positives but the average trend from that moment onward was a slow downward spiral.
I think people can say that Vanilla was best or TBC was best or early Wrath was best but they were all GREAT. The people that favorite one of those three can usually agree on stuff and find a lot of common ground. But the latter half of Wrath, starting with 8.2, is the point where most people collectively start complaining about the game going downhill.
Big ups to the green audio light in the background lulling me to sleep!
TBC still my favourite era of WoW. Hope se can have a tbc server in a year or two after classic
There is a chance, I've been raiding with a Bliz employee since WoD, so we chat quite often. Depending on how Classic does for the 1st year or so, we might see a TBC and Wrath realm...but all depends on if enough players enjoy and stick with Classic. Here's to hoping it works out :)
if that ever happens, i´ll forget blizzard for the betray with activision
You're experience in Wrath is completely 100% exactly how mine was. Awesome Video Bellular!! Oh and I have the Swift Horde Wolf you get for the old achieve. "A tribute to insanity"
"Algalon was rock hard." Are we not doing phrasing now Bells?
I think overall Wrath was a fantastic expansion. Arguably the high point for WOW (although I prefer TBC), BUT, I also think it was the beginning of the end for wow and starting with the tail end of Wrath Blizzard started to prioritize convenience over everything that made the game great.
With the mention of Citizens of Dalaran, I was yelling.
With the play of that audio, I was *screaming*
*sigh* this was my rookie time. I started playing this summer. Yes I know I'm a Wrath baby.
Their fatal misstep was getting caught in the accessibility trap and playing towards the wants of whingers too much. LFG / LFR / Sharding / Cross - Realm micro servers instead of just merging smaller realms together. They also used to care about pre-expansion events. The best event I ever experienced in WoW is still the undead plague, it was just fun and, yes, annoying as hell. The real truth is though, life is annoying, it's supposed to put obstacles in your way, and by overcoming these obstacles you find meaning and satisfaction. Blizzard just took all of the obstacles and turned them into tiny hurdles that you could walk around in most cases.
It was? Pretty sure the subs peaked AFTER they did that. Funny that.
@@Trainwheel_Time You need to check again. Subs peaked in wotlk right before cataclysm launched and then they started a steady decline one it did finally launch.
"Used to care about pre-expanion events"? Did you just forget the burning of teldrassil AND the battle for lordaeron?The BfA pre-patch was by far the biggest we've seen. And truth be told, WoW has only managed to keep staying relevant because it adopted a more casual focus. Most people either can't or don't want to spend such a huge amount of time on grinding when the gaming market has so much to offer. You just dislike the fact that the game has changed, which is fine, but that doesn't mean the game objectively sucks or isn't fun just because you dislike it.
@@Hugo-mh1pe well thats true, but BfA is indeed bad bad story, bad gameplay, and most of things that they bring to the game arent fun at all, and i dont think its true that it managed to keep it relevant because it adopted a more casual focus rather because the game had such a huge fanbase that they rather stick to the game even when the game was not of their liking, it seems to me more that its a illusion that people have that the game stayed relevant because it become more casual content when wow started to go down with the introduction of more and more casual content, its not entirely bad to have some casual content tho... well at least thats how it seems to me.
@@EnuoAkatsuki No, the story and gameplay being bad is your own damn opinion. And while that's at least subjective, I really don't think WoW could've survived as the game it used to be. Most old time wow players have grown up and don't have as much time to spend on the game and younger people aren't really intro the grinding aspect of it, because newflash, it was never all that fun. The game has moved away from grinds and build-ups and is more about the actual experiences themselves and getting decent rewards within a reasonable timeframe. Spending MONTHS to aquire a set of raiding gear is just not realistic anymore. I'm sure a great deal of players would still enjoy that gameplay but it's not sustainable and was really flawed. It worked then and people enjoyed it, that's great, but no way it'd work now. The funny thing is that WoW has always been more accessible than it's competition, that's why it was so successful. It's just staying on top of it's own ideals, weird how no one can see that.
Shout out to the players that were playing as soon as vanilla launched, its just time to let go no hate whatsoever, wow was a beautiful experience for my childhood. R. I. P
2005-2019 RIP it went so fast :(
There was something so satisfying about finding 4 or 24 other person and traveling to instance entrance.
OMG that back ground music just gave me chills. So many hours of my life spent listening to that. I miss those days.
The one thing I hated about Wrath was the raid progression. One raid per tier began here. Also, I didn't like that the heroic dungeon in the Coliseum totally killed Ulduar. Back in Burning Crusade, raiders were still running Karazhan right up until the night before Wrath started... but in Wrath, nobody ran Ulduar after the Trial of the Crusader raid debuted. I thought that sucked.
The same week Icecrown Citadel was introduced I came to the troubling realization that *WoW was eating my life* and even negatively impacting my RL job. I suddenly quit raiding, dropped out of my guild and vowed to only play casually a couple times a week. Completely missed Icecrown Citadel. Never even saw the inside of the place until spring 2018.
So, looking forward to learning about it in your next video =)
I was a progression raider from Vanilla up until Ulduar. I HATED Ulduar. So much so that I haven't been a progression raider since.
:O Really. Please elaborate
What? Why?! I think it is safe to say most people consider this one of the best raids ever made. What was it that you didn't like?
Then you sir, have terrible taste.
I too would like to hear why you didn't like it. Ulduar seemed very creative and interesting even to someone like me who doesn't like raiding.
In the previous video, you precisely -- and I think, uniquely -- contrasted Wrath's popular and effective progression pacing with modern WoW. This video, you totally resist conventional wisdom about Argent Tournament and recognize it for the triumph of setting and theatrics that it was. Bravo.
Algalon didn't unlock from beating Yogg btw. It was a quest dropped by the harder Hard Mode of the Assembly of Iron that required you to beat the Hard Mode of all 4 Keeper bosses.
They removed all the RPG elements of the game and dumbed it down to this piece of crap we have today.
Which could actually work as a different type of game - raid based competetive team based gameplay, but it's 100% rng and mythic isn't worth it.. so they ruined that aswell. Thats why people enjoyed Legion, it was good for raiding
why won't they address these concerns from the community? Its like they just ignore us when we tell them this, they should make another game for their casual playerbase full of microtransactions
It's because you are the minority.. Personally, the moment WoW devs start listening to people like you, I will stop playing WoW...
The reason I play WoW now is because the game adapts to my free time, which is not consistent..
And no I am no casual.. I am hardcore.. I am just not consistently hardcore.. That would punish me hard in the WoW version you long for.. But right now? It's no big deal.. People who just invest more time are no better than me.. And that's how it should be.. Skill should determine your position in the game.. Not just time..
Last but not least, the reason I get new people into WoW is because I explain to them there are catch up mechanics.. It's not like you will never able to reach the power of the old players (which is not the case for other MMOs)
P.S. Yes you are the minority, the majority of the playerbase does not bother at all with forums, reddit and youtube videos.. That's a fact either you like it or not..
@@NickStrife ... and this is why WoW died.
@@wallhackergotdammit um...it's still the biggest MMORPG, boasting more active users than any other by a very wide margin, and for that very reason, it isn't going anywhere.
Trial of the Crusader was where all went to shit, they introduced gear that made the best Raid ever ignorable and a lackluster mini raid/instance. For me this was the beginning of the end for wow
Dat sneaky commercial insertion! You’re a commercial ninja. Love it! 😆👍🏻
Fantastic work with this documentary series, it’s informative and compelling, I’ve loved all the ones I’ve watched
20:35 this is what I said in my tweet today to watcher and the dev team. I said "how I long for the days when you actually had to work for your ilvl (vanilla, BC). before you could step into naxxramas: dungeons < MC < BWL < AQ40 < naxx. same in BC. But now in BFA: Heroic dungeon < Battle For Dazar.. There is no progression anymore."
23:55 ywah, it blew my mind so much, I instantly quit the game after hearing about what cataclysm was going to be, I didn't play WoW again until patch 5.3 or 5.4. I instead waiting almost a year for the long anticipated Star Wars the Old Republic and it after almost a year of waiting, it did not disappoint, it was so much fun, I didn't miss WoW at all. after about 2 years of playing it, finally had enough for a while after bioware nerfed all the classes I likled playing, the game wasn't as fun anymore. long story short. Cayaclysm was the beginning of the end for WoW, 12.5 million subs at the end of Wrath and they have never reached that number since, I think they got 10 million in Legion, but now we must be below WoD numbers for sure.
In this vid I noticed the amp/recorded in the back left of the vid. And for most the vid I have been staring at the green ring as it lights up when Bel talks and fades when he breathes.
In Wrath, Blizzard should have added an item called "Magical Earplugs" that gave you a perma-buff that lasted through death and prevented you from hearing the boss kill callouts.
Blizzard removed the RPG aspects of the game and made it more Action RPG
I agree! I haven't seen anybody mention this, I felt like I was the only one thinking that...
Implying Auto Attacking was fun.
@@samtemdo8 I get where you're coming from. But a game doesn't need to be fast pace to be enjoyable. Back in the day wow almost felt like a turn-based RPG which is fine for a lot of people and not so much for others. You can never satisfy 100% of the people. Pick your poison and stick with it lol.
I remember playing a hunter in Classic with a whopping 17 APM. I could literally go 8 seconds without pushing a button while doing optimal DPS. That's not engaging. I'd rather play something GCD-capped with a good decision tree than "I'm gonna push 1, now I'm gonna push 2, now I'm gonna sit for 6 seconds and watch paint dry." Then again, I came into WoW from Diablo 2 and City Of Heroes, both of which were a lot more "push more buttons to kill shit faster!" than WoW was until Wrath.
I also don't miss 15 minute boss fights.
@@MarcoFerrari179 Unfortunately for you. WOW playing like Turn-based strategy game was not gonna make last into the future because it was slow and boring. There was reason why RPGs have moved away from antiquated game design because naturally real time combat is more accessible then whatever WOW's gameplay was back in Vanilla.
This is when dailies didn't feel like a chore. To me anyways.
They were always a chore to me, but the rewards felt more worth it and necessary. Now it just feels annoying and not worth the time.
gmee123 feel free to correct me but all Wrath dailies gave you was gold and reputation for the beginning of the expansion until the argent tournament dailies. But even with better rewards (Mark of the Champion), the dailies were very much the same and a lot more repetitive.
Funny to watch this video and see you talking about the tournament dailies. I've been doing them every day for the past week or so trying to champion all factions. They're still a lot of fun today and that says something.
Thank you very much for these videos. As someone who wasn't allowed to play WoW during that time, being able to see and experience this through someone else's eyes is greatly appreciated!
I really enjoy these. I'm no longer playing but still really enjoy you content, and take on things old and new.
Early Wrath was what you get when you throw a little spice in to your favorite dish, 3.2 and especially Cata was what you get when you dump the whole bottle of spice on your dish.
Watching this makes me think of what could have been - if Azjol Nerub had been a zone and 8+ boss raid, between Ulduar and Icecrown (perhaps instead of Trial of the Crusader, despite my personal love for that raid). It would have been epic, like the adventurous maze of BrD in raid form!
green light in the background ques when he speaks. you cant unsee it
That was the most seamless transition into a sponor message I’ve ever seen 😂 well done
I always thought that Cataclysm was the begginning of the end for World of Warcraft, not Wrath of the Lich King.
Wrath introduced LFG. LFG brought LFR. LFG was a mistake and so was LFR.
@@R0ssMacPherson True. But LFG was only added at the end of the expansion (3.3), and it's a smaller mistake than LFR since Raids are supposed to be the longest and hardcore content which require lots of coordination and teamwork. But I get your point.
@@pedroalbuquerquebs yeah plus dungeons in Wrath were effortless but I liked wrath for the storyline to be honest
Just my opinion, but I don't think they cut the life of ULDUAR short by releasing trial of the crusader. I think many guilds found ulduar intimidating due to it's size/scale/time involved, and also much more difficult compared to NAXX. Big change from Naxx easy mode to Ulduar being hard even on regular mode. If anything, I think TOC extended Ulduar playability at the time before the release of ICC. Reason being people could knock out TOC early in the week, and then work on ULDUAR the rest of the week. TOC got many people back into raiding that ULDUAR was just a bit too overwhelming for them. Ulduar still had so many cool things to do, achievements to earn, etc... that TOC gear helped people progress on it that perhaps struggled before. I think it paired quite well together before ICC came out.
Raiding should never have had a Heroic mode imo, but if there is a way to make it harder to get access to more loot Raids should have continued with the Ulduar “hard mode trigger.” Why they didn’t follow that model greatly confuses me.
you forgot to mention that they originally remade the previously level 40 mount of 60% to level 30, before changing it again to level 20.
A bit more digging, Bellular, and you will see that it started in TBC actually. Wrath was actually a CONTINUATION of QoLs and massive re-design implemented in TBC. Flying was introduced in TBC, and with it, the "need" for "speed" led to LFD in Wrath. Arena was introduced in TBC, and with it, the "need" for "less people" led to 10 men raids in Wrath. Heroic modes were introduced in TBC, and with it, the community was even more split. And so on.
If you are going down that road it started in Vanilla with 20 man raids, reworked talent trees etc all big QoL
still a little surprising how many design decisions they got right in Wrath but didn't try again. GDC just posted an interesting lecture by Travis Day discussing how the reward system of WoW/D3 evolved and some of the mistakes they made over the years. It adds a bit more behind the scenes context to gear of this era.
i remember getting the gear score breaker addon and running around in dalaran messing everyones gear score addon haha
I loved soo much those days... Even being casual, it allowed me to do raids and heroics which where fun and entertaining. By the way, I play wow since patch 1.10 LOL
I think that instead of being a full tier, it would've made sense for the Trial of the Crusader to be used narratively to grant a special weapon from the Kirin Tor for the player to use in Icecrown. You know, like Legion but it would've made more sense. It also wouldn't have made Ulduar irrelevant and literally skippable.
ah the memories hit me now...and yes, onyxia was such fun...super epic...u gather a group of people from the server( bring server community back and quit guilds) and go have fun basicly
Wrath brought overall a lot of good features from my memory, it did make the game more casual (which probably catered to me being a kid in school and never that good/hardcore), I think what did start to kill the game was too much lfg, it killed immersion and wows outside world that you could just sit in dalaran queue and be teleported to a dungeon without ever having go there on your mount
Stars is the same end game guild from Everquest on the Tunare server.
That Skill Share Segway was epic lol, in all seriousness keep up the good work.
Quality of Life=Erosion of sense of world, immersion, and sense of gratifying progression. This video made me realize that WoW was truly an immersive, epic and meaningful MMO experience from launch until the release of Wrath.
13:53 "One of the best games that the raid had ever seen." ???
Lol I heard that too. Poor Bell
In trial of The crusader you coud do 10 and 25 same week aswell as hc and normal for both. My guild did all 4 versions evry week for some months.
Why? Becuse we had problem with ppl leaving so we constantly needed new ppl and better guilds took our top players. So had to gear up alot of ppl. 2 of The raids was not mandatory but i was raid leader so lead all raids.
You forgot about the tabards reputation system on WOTLK. I think it was the best way blizzard created to work on reputations ever.
Loved this video!! This was about the time I started playing, and man the nostalgia hit me hard
Can you do a series like this for vanilla and tbc?
April - August is not 5 months, it is 4. Time between 3.1 and 3.2 was just under FOUR months
Ugh I hated gear score so much... I had taken a break from the game and when I came back everyone was talking about gear scores and then no one would let me raid which really pissed me off because they were raids I was used to being top dps in and now I was being told I wasn't geared enough to join and I was just so dumbfounded and angry...
Who's here before Asmongold reacts to this?
Hi dad!
Who is amsgold?
Pepega 📣ASMAAAN PLAY GETTING OVER IT!!
where is McCuck?
Baldsmangold
"Algalon was rock hard" oh my...
Please don't miss talking about Dungeon Finder in 3.3.0
2018 wow UA-camrs: "How BFA will change the game!!"
2019 wow UA-camrs: "How BFA has changed the game..."
2020 wow UA-camrs: "How BFA killed the game..."
decentradical
It’s almost like there’s a difference between the promised changes, the effects of the changes that these people were optimistic for, and the actual execution of those changes.
But let’s not bring things like integrity and nuance into your shitpost.
2025 game was way Better in BFA
@@Brat2513 This will not happen. In BFA we are saying the game was better in WOD but we still know WOD was a dumpsterfire of an expansion.... WoW will not survive to 2025 at this rate and I cannot see how they could make something worse than BFA
DIRT4649 Don’t say that man they always have a way to make things worst let’s hope the next raid and the awaited 8,2 patch makes things a bit better.
Lol that was the most seamless sponsor I’ve ever seen
I loved wotlk i remember the discussion at the time coming out of bc it was clear that a large chunk of content was only ever seen by highend raiding guild which was a waste.
It opened up the game so everyone could enjoy the content. Ulduar is still an awesome place and raid. I still love my starcaller title, but when my mount dropped off the LK on 25 man that was a great moment.
Also the community and guild was strong and meaningful, very little hate social media content but more positive mmo champion discussions.
The player base was at its peek it was the golden era for warcraft. Cataclysm killed many things including many guilds and communities.
Warcraft will always be about people and not content.
as a oceanic server hick, i must say ulduar did have a couple at least 3 more months in her for me at least, we'd progressed through server firsts up until yogg, which just brick walled us.. it ended up that trial of the crusader was so poorly fucking optimized it killed half our raids connections and we could only just barely make it past boss two on heroic.. blizzard said "we wont do nothing" and we were forced to xfer servers to keep progress and never went back to yogg.
the cut it early because people/entire guilds were burning out.
Hmm, April 14 to August 4 is just under 4 calendar months, not 5. So even quicker than you said in the video.
So far i have watched countless videos but no one ever mentioned thr actual part content people enjoyed...
Spirit beasts... Was a big thing to do
Exlusive items like BMAH
And TCG market blizzard droped these things long time now and its sad
I miss the badges that you used to get from doing raids and dungeons. But now we have the gods of RNG to rule us. lol
Wrath was my favorite for ease of asses with hardcore modes. PvP was a fun time to what I remember.
I know its a tiny thing, but theres' a green flashing light in the bottom left of the studio shot that's REALLY distracting. Can you cover it next time?
Damn that skillshare segue was smooth
You forgot to mention developers like Eyonix leaving at the end of Ulduar and the subsequent drop in raid content quality.
I wonder how/if the future course of the game would have been changed if they'd kept their finger on the pulse and delayed Call of the Crusade until Ulduar had been more thoroughly cleared.
As Wrath lived it life, it also brought in player toxicity and elitism. It was the begining of the end for alot of things. Gearscore was the worst invention ever, a players skill was attributed to their GS, which was basically free to obtain.
Gear score was much more worse then people understood. People could be geared by their friends to get into runs that they had no idea how to deal with because they lacked the skill. I could out damage and out live other people in blues because I had far better player skills and yet I would sometimes be turned out just because my gear score. The worse part was when I had to posted meters for fights just to prove that even thought I had a low gear score I sure as fuck wasn't the weak link as I was always at the top of the meters. It was annoying for like 3-4 weeks after that I was pretty much geared in the best, but it does change how shitty of an experience it was.
Activism would be proud of that shameless plug at 1:40 lol
I can't believe you talked about trial of valor without mentioning the most important feature to change wow in the future: Looking for group.
he forgot because he was looking at wotlk with some heavy tinted ruby lenses. also, that 3.3. And it kinda fixated on 3.1. Ulduar.
> kill boss quicker.
> press a red button.
Really heroic!
He was rock hard? really?? .. lol
I think you missed out on something with the approach of Cataclysm. The player base despised a lot of the proposed class changes. The forums were on fire about many of them. Which is one contributing reason subs fell so sharply. I'm sure there were many others. Hunter changes and the addition of focus + casted shots is a good example. We all absolutely abhorred some of the class changes and pleaded, threatened, cried, complained, posted and screamed about them to no avail. You might have been too young at the time to pay attention? However the vibe from the Cata prepatch was that. Dread, not hype. We begged and pleaded for a lot of changes to be reverted. Didn't take too long after it launched for the numbers to dive. The game for many of us just wasn't fun anymore. I don't recall hype, I recall a lot of very loud "this isn't fun" complaints. Let's not forget the last dance of the trees in Dalaran. Some changes just didn't make sense. Still don't. The game was and still is somewhat less fun than it was in WotLK thanks to those class changes. That's the vibe as I felt it. It's obvious other people saw different vibes at that time.
My thoughts when watching this?
Jealousy, depression, wishing I hadn't been so late to WoW...
Wrath had the best damn soundtrack, RNGod bless
blizzard could remove all other expansions and roll back to wotlk
really good video, thank you bellular
Played since Vanilla, loved TBC, absolutely adored WotLK. Pretty much hated everything cataclysm onward. _especially_ pandaland. Lich King was also the last time I can say that I actually enjoyed playing my classes. I mean, by then I had max level everything, except maybe a priest...but my lock was fantastic. My hunter was a dream. My paladin was a tanking monster. And every expansion and every patch since then has just widdled down and normalized everything that made the game fun. It removed all the flavor from the game. Where once I had full hotbars and a whole slew of hotkeys and macros and had to think about how I wanted to weave my abilities for a given fight, now I have to pick a cookie cutter spec and have the same rotation in just about every situation -- and it's generally 3-4 buttons depending on the class. You could play modern WoW with a SNES controller. There's just no variety anymore. There's no engagement. The game is now just a single player game full of NPCs with a chatroom.
I guess I quit wrath before Argent Tournament because I had no clue that even existed.
Love the video, keep up the good work!
I personally think ToC was the worse raid instance ever made.
WoW is just a history lesson at this point.
does someone else also register a high amount of mini sound lags in every of Bel´s new bideos ?? or do i have to check my i -netXD
After warcraft 3 i waited years to fight arthas. Loooooved Wrath.
all i can see if that green light flickering in the corner when you talk.
Isle of Conquest: The team that gets (and defends) the glaives, wins the match. :D
I cant wait for a Wrath server.