I used to love Fenchurch Street St. as a kid. Firstly because it was the gateway to our going to Westcliff and secondly because it was on the Monopoly board!
During the 1960s I used to travel between Basildon and Slough during every school holiday (divorced parental homes). This meant I got to know Fenchurch Street and Paddington quite well. As a child I remember walking down a HUGE staircase at FenSt, then turning left down a few old steps and, seemingly, walking miles to find Tower Hill (not the more modern one but a much older entrance). I always felt hard done by becuase my little 11 year old legs had to walk so far and I spent years wondering why it wasn't connected like the fantastic Paddington - which had proper trains. So, thanks for the info - greatly enjoyed the tale - so excellently told!
Yes, Jago said about Fenchurch Street exit being fairly close to Tower Hill but it's not the main exit and I don't think even now that the signage clearly points you in that direction. Also you may well have been having to use the old Tower Hill station (previously Mark Lane) which was replaced in 1967 and was further south and west than the present station.
@@iankemp1131 Absolutely right on both counts. I seem to remember walking down what I now know to be Seething Lane and turning left into Byward Street in order to go into the older Tower Hill Entrance. I did look at Google Maps and I think I can see the old entrance in Byward St. Also, although there was another entrance to Fenchurch Station I never knew about it then - and it wasn't the one that Jago is referring to - I think that is relatively recent (80s/90s?). The alternative entrance used to be in Crutched Friars (I think). I only discovered it when I worked in that area (around 67/69). I didn't know that it was once called Mark Lane - changed to Tower Hill in 1946 apparently. So thanks for that info.
I took a few photos inside Fenchurch Street Station in the late ‘80s when they were still served by Class 302 EMUs. The grand staircase and the wood-panelled ticket office caught my eye. Even then, they were evocative of a long-past era. My photo of the staircase has bags of cement piled up near its bottom, so presumably it was just before building works were to begin.
@@dukeofaaghisle7324 You can probably imagine what that staircase looked like to an 11 year old. I always walked close to the railing along the edge (and the centre I believe). But being an 11 year old I didn't want others to see how intimidated I was so I never actually held on. It still felt like walking down the side of a mountain though. Later on, in the late 60s I used to commute between Basildon and FenSt since I worked in Mincing Lane. I was amazed at how the staircases were absolutely full! For a few hours each weekday, thousands of us robots used to walk down the stairs between 8 and 9 am - then walk/run back up them between 5 and 6pm. Do you know if they are still there, or have they been replaced by escalators, or something?
@@SolveEtCoagula93I’m almost certain the stairs were replaced by escalators. I vaguely remember seeing the inside of the modernised station, but can’t remember whether I was actually there or whether I had just seen photographs or video footage (possibly on this - excellent - UA-cam channel?). Farringdon and the LTSR line never really on my “patch”. I can imagine the terror for a young boy going down those stairs!
@charlestysonyerkes4322 Hmm, I am the real Yerkes for many reasons, I have capital letters in my name, have more hearts from Jago and have more overall comments and likes.
A minor side note; the Underground station across the road from the Paddington main line terminus was built by the Metropolitan Railway, although they haven't used it for a week or two.
And of course the original Underground station at Paddington was Bishop's Road, not Praed Street. Praed Street station is where it is because that was the route the Met extension to Kensington took (so it could go down the middle of the street using the Cut and Cover method). Nowadays TfL seem to be trying to make it as hard as possible to change from train to Tube at Paddington, by removing the direct walkway from Paddington footbridge to Bishop's Road station and closing the staircase from Paddington concourse (The Lawn) to the Bakerloo ticket hall.
“It seems unlikely there’ll ever be a direct tube link to Fenchurch Street any time soon”: *Not unless there were a JAGO HAZZARD LINE* , a line dedicated to the memory of Sir. Jago Hazzard, if you ask me.
To show how much people (OK, me) take things for granted, I'll mention that I many many times walked the passageway from the District and Circle line at Paddington, and up the steps to the main concourse. Never once did it occur to me that I walking under a road. The passage way was there, one walked along it, and that was that.
"East London was a fairly working class part of the city. The majority of people there were Cockneys, so respectable folk didn't want them anywhere near their fashionable neighbourhoods with their jellied eels and their Knees Up Mother Brown"
We (the locals)were always at the back of the queue when it came to the trains , most of the one's we see , were goods trains , my great aunt lived near homerton Station on the old north London line and we used to watch the nuclear fuel trains going past her garden in the 60s .
It never occurred to me that Fenchurch Street wasn't on the Underground. The handful of times I've needed to use this terminus, when visiting a schoolmate's home near Shoeburyness, it was easy to get from Westminster tube to Tower Hill, and walk 2 minutes to Fenchurch Street. Kids still walked back then! 😂
And we still do this day but thats because I moved to Denmark. The reason why you don't see kids out and about is because parents are scared to let there children out. My parents allowed me to go out when I was 11 as long I had my phone on me.
@@asdsdjfasdjxajiosdqw8791 Yeah I agree. Its not mainly because "they have their computers and phones" but because either: You simply don't have friends to be with that often or its too dangerous to go outside.
The comment that Jago made is a good one. I've never tested it but experience tells me that it's far quicker to get from the platform at Tower Hill to your desired platform at Fenchurch St than it it is from (say) the Victoria Line line Northbound, at Kings X/St Pancras to you preferred platform at either Kings X or St Pancras. No tourists know the route from Tower Hill which is a help :-)
"... to better serve the termini." Like the most recent improvements at Euston? Where you now have to go out of the main line station (while trying to avoid the rain, and other people trying to avoid the rain) to get into the Underground?
I found that very odd on my first visit to the Euston station the other day. I went in to the main building only to see the signs for the underground point outside. Rather inconvenient.
@@thomasburke2683 St. Pancras is lovely and I love the Betjeman statue but St P's is very big and loud, like a huge chorus in a Wagnerian opera. Fenchurch Street is more like a madrigal, heard through an open window.
Fenchurch Street is the one mainline terminus that I have never used or been to. Way back when I was 18 as a non-Londoner, I decided that I would have a weeks holiday on my own just getting to know London getting in all the sight-seeing etc. One day on a spur of the moment decision, I decided to go to Southend but as Fenchurch Street was not on the Underground map, I did not know how to get there so I took a train from Liverpool Street. Really must go there some day then if it does close it will be on my list of closed London Stations that I have actually used.
I worked in Grays for a number of years and our usual strategy when coming into Fenchurch St for business was a brisk walk in a fairly straight line down Fenchurch St to Bank Station, which gave pretty good access to the rest of London, Westminster, Law Courts and otherwise.
West Ham, Barking and Upminster are all on the line out of Fenchurch Street, and they all have direct Underground interchanges. The Jubilee Line extension also serves West Ham, but the original proposed routing of the Fleet Line proposed a station at Fenchurch Street; this plan was abandoned.
So in fact, the L,T&S LINE is well served - only those boarding a train west of West Ham (= Stepney East?) remain "unconnected" to the Underground. The issue I think is much more that the terminus doesn't appear by name on the Underground connections map.
This is what I do when going into London on the LT&S. Change at West Ham, usually for the H&C, then on to King's Cross. It's actually handier the few days they have services to either Stratford or straight to Liverpool Street. But ah well.
It's named after the street itself and the origin of the name of the street isn't particularly clear. However, it must be remembered that the area around Walbrook right the way through to Aldgate was marshy land with the Langborne (now Langbourn) River running approximately on the course of the street as it sits today - much like the Walbrook, long covered over. I wonder whether records of such names / history behind them will be better kept, or more easily destroyed, in the future.
@@simonwinter8839 People who will be very well-adapted to the swampy conditions as sea level rises and others are left floundering, like your old and facile "joke".
Wasn't there some talk about space being left on the DLR Bank extension for a station under Fenchurch Street, which might possibly be used when Tower Gateway is finally shut?
My father was one of a team of architects that revamped Fenchurch Street station ... the remit was to update it without changing it ... ...you didn't notice, so they succeeded ...
Talking Epic Walks, (Not really) I always used to think that changing from one Northern line to the other at Euston was a fair ramble. Watching the multi layer sign slowly diminish as you walked through to the CX branch seemed exhausting - after my trip down from Derby. In the end, I used to come out of St Pancras and walk above ground to Euston, or on good days down to Charing Cross. Far more pleasant.
As I discovered a few years back, dragging heavy luggage from Euston to St Pancras (Kent Lines) on foot is not much fun on a hot day. It's a lot of hassle on the tube or the bus too, so get a taxi. A travelator between the two stations is clearly needed, especially if HS2 ever reaches Euston.
Fenchurch Street might not be an underground but man is it conveniently placed. I love being able step out of Fenchurch, walk a few yards and boom, there’s Tower Hill 🙌
Well the Fleet Line could of passed underneath Fenchurch Street station and would of had a Underground station below the main line station. That’s if the Fleet Line was built that would of been the Jubilee Line from Charing Cross to London City Airport and North Woolwich. With extensions to Thamesmead. I have been to Fenchurch Street station and it is quite a nice terminus station that is on the London Tilbury & Southend Railway. Also c2c is getting new Class 720/6 trains which should be in service later this year that will operate from Fenchurch Street to Barking, Shoeburyness, Southend Central, Basildon and Grays. But will not replace the Class 357 trains.
Ah! Fenchurch Street, such a delightfully rural sounding place. I can honestly say I have never been there except via the Monopoly Board.. Does it have the cathedral like hush of Marylebone?
Wired suggestion. After Leman St. send the trains which would serve Fenchurch At into a quad track tunnel. Demolish the old station (the station building too but save the bricks for reconstruction afterwards). At the current location of the terminus just underground in a cut and cover tunnel (as the old station is gone,this should be easy) put a four to six tracks through station. After the new underground Fenchurch street two tunnels attach, one connecting with the North London line at Moorgate and the other with the City widened lines also at Moorgate. Now you have through service to Themeslink and two ways to Finsburry Park and a lot of connection further west. Not cheap but probably also not that expensive considering that you only bore about 2km of Tunnel (you could than reuse the TBMS for Crossrail 2.
Being from Manchester, I've never really had much of an interest in tube trains and associated subjects. However, I'm subscribed to your channel just because I like to watch your superb videos.
Hi Jago from Spain. Thank you for a visit to my, at one time, second home - the only mainline station in the City of London. Of course the quicker way was to go out of the other station exit and just walk along Crosswall and into Tower Hill.
The train announcement at Barking always seemed to have a slightly poetical ring about it : "The train now standing at platform eight is for Stepney East and Fenchurch Street."
With a good connection you can get off at Waterloo East, use Southwark for the Jubilee Line and be leaving London Bridge just as the passengers who disembarked at London Bridge mainline before you arrive on the platform.
When I lived in Grays, I always used Tower Hill for Fenchurch Street on my way from central London. But that was in the mid-seventies. The distance is not great.
Poss of equal query is why was the Elizabeth Line not routed toward Fenchurch Street (or at least a Pedestrian Tunnel link to Liverpool Street like the Moorgate for Northern one )
It was much more useful from a connectivity point of view to serve Liverpool Street than Fenchurch Street and the geography doesn't let you do both. Equally interesting though is that no interchange was provided further east. The two lines cross near Limehouse (NR and DLR) which looks as if it would have worked well. Maybe the extra stop and/or the expense of providing an extra station in an already developed area (especially at typical Elizabeth Line build standard) put the planners off.
@@grahamrowntree5573 Too many years living/ working in London and generally having an oblique study of the transport systems of the C20th for many years. One day I might get round to writing a history of the 1950s as I feel the political and social thinking of that time as well as actions embedded the economic and political field ever since, but it is difficult to find unbiased sources in the right places to affirm or rebut that hunch
In your shot of the old Mark Lane station you can see a set of gates similar to those in Underground stations. That is an Underground entrance to the old station and is still used by the permenant way department. The eastbound platform area is still down there and is used by staff when there are engineering works in that area.......
So basically we're saying there was never quite enough demand to reroute an Underground line or move a station to serve FS. A cut-and-cover line would have been expensive while the deep tube lines didn't quite go in the right direction (Northern Line through Bank, Central already extended from Bank to Liv St). The LTS line connected to the Underground at Barking and, nowadays and more usefully, West Ham. Interesting though that even with the Elizabeth Line they have not bothered to provide a direct interchange with the LTS route although they cross close to Limehouse. So it's still not that easy for LTS passengers wanting to go beyond London or to other parts beyond the City. 0:05, what's wrong with "termini"? (cf. Alan Jackson).
The interchange with the Docklands at Fenchurch Street isn't all that relevant, because the Docklands goes back the way you came. If you were coming in on that line and wanted to get to the Docklands, every train stops at West Ham and most also stop at Limehouse. As for demolishing Fenchurch Street to increase capacity, this is unlikely now as Liverpool Street has extra capacity thanks to the Elizabeth Line, so if extra trains are laid on that can't be accommodated at Fenchurch Street, they could be diverted there (possibly an entire branch).
Whether or not they'd actually be able to regularly divert trains to Liv St during the week I'm not too sure, since the current connection involves running over the Goblin from Barking onto the Liz Line tracks by Manor Park, and I'm not sure if those tracks have the spare capacity (especially at peak times)
Why did the DLR not run into Fenchurch street but into the disconnected Tower Gateway? I used to commute from Barking into Fenchurch Street in the 1980's and the advent of the DLR took two of the lines from Limehouse to Fenchurch Street stretch, this meant that whenever there was a point failure at Fenchurch Street which was a fairly regular occurance in those days the whole station closed. This involved me having to walk back often in the rain to Tower Hill where I had just come from to catch the District line that I had just got off a few minutes before to continue to Barking on the much slower District line.
I understand it was to do with not enough platform space - that said, a walkway from Tower Gateway to platform level at Fenchurch Street should not be impossible
It appears from Google that the District and Circle Lines pass close to Tower Gateway station and pretty much under the end of the platforms at Fenchurch Street. I can't just remember where the platforms at Tower Hill are in relation to the entrance to Tower Hill station, but if they could be relocated eastwards, they could be directly accessivle from both Fenchurch Street and Tower Gateway stations as well as from the current TG entrance.
Here’s a video idea for me. (Btw I’m not from the uk so yeah). Why aren’t any new tube lines being planned or built? And I’m talking not like the Elizabeth line, but like the deep tube, so central, jubilee e.t.c. I’ve always been interested by this. Anyway, keep up the good work mate!
There are several in the pipeline right now. The Bakerloo Line extension plans from Elephant and Castle to Burgess Park, Old Kent Road, New Cross and Lewisham and possibly as far as Hayes seems to have stalled for now. A DLR extension has been mooted to Beckton Riverside,Thamesmead and possibly even Abbey Wood as well. A new Overground route in West London from Hounslow to Acton, Neasden and Hendon/West Hampstead is also being investigated.
Is there any chance of a video covering the history of the Fenchurch Street to Southend line, specifically its period as the Misery Line throughout much of the 80s and early 90s? The line was unreliable to an extent that houses closer to Liverpool Street line stations were more expensive, in part because it was a more reliable commuter service. I clearly remember the local newspaper stories about it (at least one a week), and it was even a thing that people were being turned down for jobs in London once it was discovered that they'd be relying on the Misery Line to get to work. I believe it was down to antiquated signalling more than anything else; following a complete resignalling, the line became acceptably reliable and by the time I was using it from 1994-2005, it really wasn't a significant problem.
When the railways were privatised in the 1990's, the Fenchurch Street line was the first, as it's relatively self-contained. Obviously to make it a good advertisement for privatisation, it would have to be in a mess beforehand. No state investment and then - hey presto! - things improve miraculously on privatisation.
Yeah, I remember that period in the late 1980s ! People applying for jobs in the City getting turned down because they lived on the London Tilbury Southend (LTS) line ! Fortunately I've lived most of my life closer to the Liverpool Street , Shenfield to Southend Victoria/Colchester lines ! I did use the C2C line a bit a few years ago, when an office I was working out was at St Katherine's dock (in about 2015 ). It seemed fine then , and fares were cheaper than the Liverpool Street / Southend Victoria line !
In my experience, the whole slightly disconnected DLR/Jubilee thing in Docklands works pretty well. It enables me to find reasonably priced hotel accommodation in parts not popular with tourists (Canning Town? Anyone?) yet in easy reach of the heart of London.
My favourite underground station is Bumble's End but it closed in 1897 due to a debacle with a horse and some barrels of jam. It was in the City and it only had three stops- Putney, Hampstead and Birmingham.
Fenchurch Street is easy to get to from Tower Hill. The only problem is you are not under ground for the short walk - and therefore at the mercy of the weather.
Here's a thought why is Fenchurch Street Station along with Marylebone, Euston and Kings Cross on the Monopoly board. It's a minor terminus like Marylebone, unlike Euston and Kings Cross? The Thatcher government chronically under invested in the existing Underground, which became one of the main causes of the Oxford Circus Station and the Kings Cross Station fires. They also gleefully knocked down poor old Broad Street, without a thought of incorporating its platforms into Liverpool Street Station.
The DLR / Tube thing to help regenerate Docklands is a classic case for Georgism. If the government - that is the taxpayer - had built the line to Docklands all that de -facto subsidy would have ended up in land prices. That is docklands land would have increased in value. So, far better to see what happens in Docklands and then tax it to pay for the line. (That's a very short comment on a complex subject.)
It's worth reiterating that, while the interchanges, say, between the Bakerloo line and National Rail at Waterloo or between the Piccadilly Line and National Rail at King's Cross, are intuitive for visitors, for those who know where they're going they're not easier than the interchange between the Circle or District line and National Rail at Fenchurch Street. In fact they're considerably more longwinded. And even for visitors, the connection is shown on the tube and rail map and the route is signposted (though I doubt you'd want to do it at rush hour if you were relying on the signs as you'd never see them through the crowds and you'd be in everybody's way). I also think, though it pains me to say so as a Londoner, priorities for infrastructure upgrades may have shifted, due to the pandemic, from increasing capacity to keep up with peak demand in central London, to improving the rail network's capacity, resilience and regional links across the whole country. The sector known in the BR days as Regional Rail is a shambles, quite frankly. It's in dire need of electrification, improvement of junctions and stations and, in many cases, construction of new east-west routes or link lines to enable such routes. Fenchurch Street is fine.
I thought I recognized that tube station (Aldgate). It's nearby to a hotel I stayed in when I went on holiday to London. Didn't realize Fenchurch was also nearby, I could have gone there to do some train spotting.
you also have to remember though the c2c lines have good connections at west ham to the distric and h and c and the jubile line, and also a useful connection at Limehouse for the dlr to canary wharf or poplar, i think if capicity becomes an issue, if your going to bond street or westimster for example it would make sence to change at west ham and if your going any where north london it would make sence to change for h and c and then go to the revelant connection, kings x, euston, etc
There was a plan which called for the railway running between the (old) Limehouse and Fenchurch street to be buried underground, and a 110 ft wide road built on top. Meanwhile, Fenchurch Street station would have been replaced with a terminus with a direct link to the London Underground. As part of a series of rebuilding works that included a massive Big Ben-sized clock-tower in Stepney prepared by Mr. Thomas H. Mawson. The new road was to be called the “Stepney Greeting” and would have seen huge numbers of workers housing and workshops demolished to further the goal of shifting more cars more rapidly.
As for Fenchurch Street itself, the original terminus was said to have been further west at Lime Street and had it also been buried underground would have likely opened up quite options as far as further extensions go. They would have been better relocating both Fenchurch Street and Tower Hill closer to each other roughly west of Minories had the mainline been pushed below ground.
The other main line stations may have Underground entrances within, but it is still a very long, seemingly never-ending walk to the trains. Especially at King's Cross, the last time that I went there. Perhaps Fenchurch Street's only difference is walking through the street to reach the tube trains.
The signposted pedestrian routes at Kings Cross have got longer since it was rebuilt - in a coupe of cases there are quicker ways. It does have the advantage of no roads to cross and not getting rained on (or other adverse weather conditions, even occasionally hot sun).
The most recent time I went there I followed the signs for "British Rail" to find I eventually came out on the Thameslink platforms, which were about half a mile from where I wanted
Surely the thing that will happen is building a new underground DLR station, on the Bank Branch of the DLR, having that connect by tunnels to both Tower Hill and Fenchurch Street stations, and then divert all the trains to Bank, so that Fenchurch Street station can expand onto the land that the existing Tower Gateway station uses.
Given the early underground lines were cut and cover, we have the District line following roads and so we have a dilemma as you approach the Tower of London from the direction of Mansion House. The most logical road to cut and cover would have been Fenchurch Street. Jewry Street to Crutched Friars to Hart Street is closer but ends at Mark Lane. Meaning a lot of demolition. Therefore Eastcheap was a better route and as you say the Metropolitan had already built to Tower Hill. So I would blame the engineering difficulties of getting onto the street called Fenchurch Street using Cut & Cover - this precluded any serious consideration of that route. It might have been different had the Circle been built as a Tube line.
The other reason there is no direct tube connection is that most of the City of London is within walking distance from FST. Passengers for the West End can use Jubilee from West Ham, District/Circle from Tower Hill, or Central from Bank - none are fantastically convenient but none are horrendously bad connections either. The cost of building on such a central site would be very high, so it's hard to see this ever happening.
short it may be, but the walk from tower hill to fenchurch street or vice versa is incredibly packed every morning between the tower bridge/tower of london tourists and the commuters, and the pavement is far too small to cope!
So close yet so far away! Been to Aldgate & Tower Hill many, many times yet never needed to go to or from Fenchurch St. so it remains as elusive as Brigadoon.
I have got on and off trains at both Aldgate and Tower Hill and walked and driven a little in the vicinity, but I am pretty sure I've yet to even see Fenchurch Street station in real life.
I worked on the office block immediately to the right of FS, as you look at the entrance, it was known as London House then, circa 1990, and on the basement plans, there was clearly marked two 'LPTB Lift Shafts'. They were constructed for future Tube extensions. The pub down the short flight of stairs, the name escapes me, was constructed as a booking hall and circulating area!
I grew up in London, and went to school about a mile from Fenchurch Street. And I saw it on monopoly boards and things. But because it doesn't have an underground station, as a teenager I literally wondered whether it actually existed: like, was it always fictional perhaps? Did it close down or something? It didn't occur to me that a major station in London could exist and not have a named tube station.
And that's the reason why the tube map shouldn't be limited to TfL services only. As a wee child I thought trains didn't exist in south London because there were barely any shown on the tube map...
They could rename Fenchurch Street to be Tower Hill, and it would be pretty accurate ! Job done, it has it's own London Underground interconnection ! maybe it could be "posh" and have a double barrelled name, "Fenchurch Street and Tower Hill"
Bearing in mind just how long it takes to get from many (most?) Underground stations to the terminUS bearing the same name, Fenchurch Street is probably best left as it is! It's one of the easiest connections on the system. And it's on the Monopoly board too! Bizarrely, given the context, along with Marylebone...
@@hb1338 no it doesn't. It simply tells you who owned them when monopoly was made. The people choosing decided the stations without visiting them (except Kings Cross) and well before they arrived in London to scout out places.
Having commuted from Thorpe Bay, the easiest way to get on the tube was to get off at Barking and cross the platform for a District tube train, you could do the manoeuvre at Mile End to get onto the Central line. It did take more time though, so to get to Holborn, where I worked, I would walk from Fenchurch Street to Bank station to get the Central Line there.
Platforms 15 to 18 at Liverpool Street are now pretty empty since the Shenfield to Liverpool Street "Lizzie Line" trains now go through their new shiny Liverpool Street station platform on towards Paddington. I think the track is probably already there, and at times this is done, the "C2C" London Tilbury Southend trains could be redirected into the now pretty empty 4 platforms that used to be used for the Liverpool Street to Shenfield "Greater Anglia Metro" service, and thus Fenchurch Street could be closed. and on the subject of the Liverpool Street Lizzie line platforms, they're MILES away, okay a fair walk from the main bit of Liverpool Street. They could almost be called "Liverpool Street / Moorgate" platforms. Yet another long sub terranean walk between train lines in London ! It's Monument / Bank all over again !
During the week, Fenchurch Street is the archetypal City commuter station, indeed for City workers it's perfect as you can basically walk anywhere in the City from there, thus saving the additional cost. Any anyone needing to go further west, can always change to the Underground at West Ham. At weekends, some C2C trains go to Liverpool Street via Stratford instead, giving better connections for leisure travellers.
I spent years living on 'the loop' line running from Fenchurch Street and I hated it. Took me an hour to get home. The services are twice as fast on Greater Anglia and the clientele are much less chavvy.
Given that Tower Gateway's platforms needed to be jiggled to allow better access to Fenchurch St, it feels like something like a bridge could link the two for better connectivity. Not a Tube line, sure, but it'd be something.
Thanks for the video. For me the key to Understanding FST is to think of the District Railway not as part of "the tube" - a term which it comfortably predates. In a way the District is more of a 'Crossrail'. As you point out the central London section of the District was joined to the LT&SR by a branch line, so to speak. Think of the District and LTSR more as rival railway companies who were sharing tracks and not as part of different networks ("The Tube" and "National Rail" in modern terms). The idea of the District running trains to Southend sounds remarkable to us if we think of the District as part of the tube, but if we think of it as a suburban railway running through central London (a la Crossrail) it makes much more sense. The parting of ways came, I think, with the decision of the District to go with the 4-rail DC electric system in use on the Underground. This rendered the junction at Bow where District trains could access the LTS&R tracks rather useless, although pre-EMUs the district carriages could be (and were) hauled by LTS&R steam locos east of where the electric traction supply stopped. Of course LTS&R got electrified much later than the Underground, and by a different system. Things may have been very different if both lines had the same traction power system.
Relating to the debacle at the beginning of the video of how there are many stations that serve as a terminus to main and how to say that, here is a neat plural form loaned from the Italian language: termini
Fenchurch Street could become a gateway station by providing a concourse under the station with payment machines and escalator link to the surface, then connecting foot tunnels to the respective platforms at Aldgate and Tower Hill. Any commuters needing to get between these two Underground lines can get off at Aldgate and walk to Tower Hill or go to Fenchurch Street. The escalator link between Bank and Monument already exists and serves the same purpose.
On the rare occasions that I have travelled into Fenchurch Street, generally out of rush hour, it is relatively easy to exit the station and walk the short distance to Tower Hill, as mentioned, but I doubt I would be so keen on this if I had to do it as a regular commute in the winter months.
My mother met my father at Fenchurch Street in the late 1940s so I have very happy memories of the station . It is a rather lovely station which I do not really think will be relocated under is it really worth it school of thought.....I do hope that I am right ......SMO
Quite why some kind of escalater link to the DLR platforms at Bank is not consider IDK. The above ground walk to Bank from Fenchurch Street is not too tedious eiether
I like how the majority of the railway termini in London are these relatively big stations that everyone sort of knows (and not just from the Monopoly board). All except Cannon Street. It seems to be this tiny terminus that never really got developed further, and these days really only ends up being used when other stations are closed. Also, there are quite a few Out of Station Interchanges (OSIs) in London now. What I find interesting are the ones where the OSI is so close, you have to wonder why they don't just stick a roof over the street, and call it a station! Some of those OSIs are pretty funky though...
Fenchurch Street may not have an Underground station, but is unironically easier to get to from the Underground than changing at Bank 😅
I would advise AGAINST changing at Bank if you can avoid it. It's a horrible interchange.
Yes, I discovered the joys of changing at Bank this week while on a mooch around London. Never again.
Yeah the only relatively simple interchange there is District/Circle to Northern… everything else is a deep maze
District and Northern line are Monument lol
that kind of thing is why we have channels like this
I used to love Fenchurch Street St. as a kid. Firstly because it was the gateway to our going to Westcliff and secondly because it was on the Monopoly board!
During the 1960s I used to travel between Basildon and Slough during every school holiday (divorced parental homes). This meant I got to know Fenchurch Street and Paddington quite well. As a child I remember walking down a HUGE staircase at FenSt, then turning left down a few old steps and, seemingly, walking miles to find Tower Hill (not the more modern one but a much older entrance). I always felt hard done by becuase my little 11 year old legs had to walk so far and I spent years wondering why it wasn't connected like the fantastic Paddington - which had proper trains. So, thanks for the info - greatly enjoyed the tale - so excellently told!
Yes, Jago said about Fenchurch Street exit being fairly close to Tower Hill but it's not the main exit and I don't think even now that the signage clearly points you in that direction. Also you may well have been having to use the old Tower Hill station (previously Mark Lane) which was replaced in 1967 and was further south and west than the present station.
@@iankemp1131 Absolutely right on both counts. I seem to remember walking down what I now know to be Seething Lane and turning left into Byward Street in order to go into the older Tower Hill Entrance. I did look at Google Maps and I think I can see the old entrance in Byward St.
Also, although there was another entrance to Fenchurch Station I never knew about it then - and it wasn't the one that Jago is referring to - I think that is relatively recent (80s/90s?). The alternative entrance used to be in Crutched Friars (I think). I only discovered it when I worked in that area (around 67/69).
I didn't know that it was once called Mark Lane - changed to Tower Hill in 1946 apparently. So thanks for that info.
I took a few photos inside Fenchurch Street Station in the late ‘80s when they were still served by Class 302 EMUs. The grand staircase and the wood-panelled ticket office caught my eye. Even then, they were evocative of a long-past era. My photo of the staircase has bags of cement piled up near its bottom, so presumably it was just before building works were to begin.
@@dukeofaaghisle7324 You can probably imagine what that staircase looked like to an 11 year old. I always walked close to the railing along the edge (and the centre I believe). But being an 11 year old I didn't want others to see how intimidated I was so I never actually held on. It still felt like walking down the side of a mountain though.
Later on, in the late 60s I used to commute between Basildon and FenSt since I worked in Mincing Lane. I was amazed at how the staircases were absolutely full! For a few hours each weekday, thousands of us robots used to walk down the stairs between 8 and 9 am - then walk/run back up them between 5 and 6pm.
Do you know if they are still there, or have they been replaced by escalators, or something?
@@SolveEtCoagula93I’m almost certain the stairs were replaced by escalators. I vaguely remember seeing the inside of the modernised station, but can’t remember whether I was actually there or whether I had just seen photographs or video footage (possibly on this - excellent - UA-cam channel?). Farringdon and the LTSR line never really on my “patch”. I can imagine the terror for a young boy going down those stairs!
If only I could have built a station at Fenchurch Street, then it would be easier for all these tourists.
Well, one of us should have. For we are many, we are the clan of Yerkes
@charlestysonyerkes4322 Hmm, I am the real Yerkes for many reasons, I have capital letters in my name, have more hearts from Jago and have more overall comments and likes.
@CharlesTysonYerkes147 fair enough *and promptly disappears in a cloud of logic
@@charlestysonyerkes4322 If only there were a Yerkes in the present day...
@@CharlesTysonYerkesOfficialthere is - you two. Come along, get going!
A minor side note; the Underground station across the road from the Paddington main line terminus was built by the Metropolitan Railway, although they haven't used it for a week or two.
And of course the original Underground station at Paddington was Bishop's Road, not Praed Street. Praed Street station is where it is because that was the route the Met extension to Kensington took (so it could go down the middle of the street using the Cut and Cover method).
Nowadays TfL seem to be trying to make it as hard as possible to change from train to Tube at Paddington, by removing the direct walkway from Paddington footbridge to Bishop's Road station and closing the staircase from Paddington concourse (The Lawn) to the Bakerloo ticket hall.
“It seems unlikely there’ll ever be a direct tube link to Fenchurch Street any time soon”: *Not unless there were a JAGO HAZZARD LINE* , a line dedicated to the memory of Sir. Jago Hazzard, if you ask me.
How about a Yerkes Line,dedicated to cash strapped TFL
@@simonwinter8839 now that’s a BRILLIANT IDEA 💡.
It may not have an underground, but at least it’s been immortalised by Monopoly.
Not many can say they’ve been preserved by a board game.
That and the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy......
To show how much people (OK, me) take things for granted, I'll mention that I many many times walked the passageway from the District and Circle line at Paddington, and up the steps to the main concourse. Never once did it occur to me that I walking under a road. The passage way was there, one walked along it, and that was that.
"East London was a fairly working class part of the city. The majority of people there were Cockneys, so respectable folk didn't want them anywhere near their fashionable neighbourhoods with their jellied eels and their Knees Up Mother Brown"
Quite. The etymology of Cockney is literally “a bad egg.”
@@michaeljames4904 I have always believed it to be from "a Cock's egg", ie not something you can trust.
We (the locals)were always at the back of the queue when it came to the trains , most of the one's we see , were goods trains , my great aunt lived near homerton Station on the old north London line and we used to watch the nuclear fuel trains going past her garden in the 60s .
@@terrycostin7259 Maybe it was those spaces before your commas.
I hope someone has correctly added pie, mash and liquor.
It never occurred to me that Fenchurch Street wasn't on the Underground. The handful of times I've needed to use this terminus, when visiting a schoolmate's home near Shoeburyness, it was easy to get from Westminster tube to Tower Hill, and walk 2 minutes to Fenchurch Street. Kids still walked back then! 😂
And we still do this day but thats because I moved to Denmark. The reason why you don't see kids out and about is because parents are scared to let there children out. My parents allowed me to go out when I was 11 as long I had my phone on me.
The commodification of the public space as well as car-centric infra is why kids no longer can go outside in much of the world.
@@asdsdjfasdjxajiosdqw8791 Yeah I agree. Its not mainly because "they have their computers and phones" but because either: You simply don't have friends to be with that often or its too dangerous to go outside.
@@asdsdjfasdjxajiosdqw8791 right and yet most people are always out here blaming the kids when its our cities' fault
The comment that Jago made is a good one. I've never tested it but experience tells me that it's far quicker to get from the platform at Tower Hill to your desired platform at Fenchurch St than it it is from (say) the Victoria Line line Northbound, at Kings X/St Pancras to you preferred platform at either Kings X or St Pancras. No tourists know the route from Tower Hill which is a help :-)
"... to better serve the termini."
Like the most recent improvements at Euston? Where you now have to go out of the main line station (while trying to avoid the rain, and other people trying to avoid the rain) to get into the Underground?
I found that very odd on my first visit to the Euston station the other day. I went in to the main building only to see the signs for the underground point outside. Rather inconvenient.
I've always thought Fenchurch Street is the most visually pleasing of all the London termini.
Second only to Saint Pancras.
@@thomasburke2683 St. Pancras is lovely and I love the Betjeman statue but St P's is very big and loud, like a huge chorus in a Wagnerian opera. Fenchurch Street is more like a madrigal, heard through an open window.
I am fond of Marylebone
Fenchurch Street is the one mainline terminus that I have never used or been to. Way back when I was 18 as a non-Londoner, I decided that I would have a weeks holiday on my own just getting to know London getting in all the sight-seeing etc. One day on a spur of the moment decision, I decided to go to Southend but as Fenchurch Street was not on the Underground map, I did not know how to get there so I took a train from Liverpool Street. Really must go there some day then if it does close it will be on my list of closed London Stations that I have actually used.
I worked in Grays for a number of years and our usual strategy when coming into Fenchurch St for business was a brisk walk in a fairly straight line down Fenchurch St to Bank Station, which gave pretty good access to the rest of London, Westminster, Law Courts and otherwise.
West Ham, Barking and Upminster are all on the line out of Fenchurch Street, and they all have direct Underground interchanges. The Jubilee Line extension also serves West Ham, but the original proposed routing of the Fleet Line proposed a station at Fenchurch Street; this plan was abandoned.
So in fact, the L,T&S LINE is well served - only those boarding a train west of West Ham (= Stepney East?) remain "unconnected" to the Underground. The issue I think is much more that the terminus doesn't appear by name on the Underground connections map.
@@1258-Eckhart Blimey, you're going back a bit. Stepney East became Limehouse in 1987.
@@jackmartinleith Is it still a station on the L,T&S? I lived in Hackney in the early 1980's.
@@1258-Eckhart Yes: same station, just renamed, and interchange with DLR.
This is what I do when going into London on the LT&S. Change at West Ham, usually for the H&C, then on to King's Cross. It's actually handier the few days they have services to either Stratford or straight to Liverpool Street. But ah well.
I assumed for many years that Fenchurch somehow serviced East Anglia communities, hence the name. It appears I was confusing Fens with Fen.
I shouldn't worry too much as most of the people that lived there confused their sisters with their wives.
It's named after the street itself and the origin of the name of the street isn't particularly clear. However, it must be remembered that the area around Walbrook right the way through to Aldgate was marshy land with the Langborne (now Langbourn) River running approximately on the course of the street as it sits today - much like the Walbrook, long covered over. I wonder whether records of such names / history behind them will be better kept, or more easily destroyed, in the future.
@@simonwinter8839 People who will be very well-adapted to the swampy conditions as sea level rises and others are left floundering, like your old and facile "joke".
@@mikeuk4130 They ought to be okay in the conditions you described as they have webbed feet.
Not quite a disconnected tale, because you always connect the history with the present, Jago. Makes things clearer for us non Londoners 😊
Yes 🙌, I agree ☝️.
I usually use the exit halfway down the platform and exit Fenchurch Street alot closer to either Tower Hill or Aldgate.
Wasn't there some talk about space being left on the DLR Bank extension for a station under Fenchurch Street, which might possibly be used when Tower Gateway is finally shut?
My father was one of a team of architects that revamped Fenchurch Street station ... the remit was to update it without changing it ...
...you didn't notice, so they succeeded ...
I'm old enough to remember another mainline terminus (Holborn Viaduct) that had no matching Underground station.
I to remember Holborn Viaduct. It was a small station but useful.
Now City Thameslink!
Talking Epic Walks, (Not really) I always used to think that changing from one Northern line to the other at Euston was a fair ramble. Watching the multi layer sign slowly diminish as you walked through to the CX branch seemed exhausting - after my trip down from Derby. In the end, I used to come out of St Pancras and walk above ground to Euston, or on good days down to Charing Cross. Far more pleasant.
As I discovered a few years back, dragging heavy luggage from Euston to St Pancras (Kent Lines) on foot is not much fun on a hot day. It's a lot of hassle on the tube or the bus too, so get a taxi. A travelator between the two stations is clearly needed, especially if HS2 ever reaches Euston.
@frglee if Crossrail 2 is built then the stains will be merged with Euston St. Pancras.
Fenchurch Street might not be an underground but man is it conveniently placed. I love being able step out of Fenchurch, walk a few yards and boom, there’s Tower Hill 🙌
Well the Fleet Line could of passed underneath Fenchurch Street station and would of had a Underground station below the main line station. That’s if the Fleet Line was built that would of been the Jubilee Line from Charing Cross to London City Airport and North Woolwich. With extensions to Thamesmead.
I have been to Fenchurch Street station and it is quite a nice terminus station that is on the London Tilbury & Southend Railway. Also c2c is getting new Class 720/6 trains which should be in service later this year that will operate from Fenchurch Street to Barking, Shoeburyness, Southend Central, Basildon and Grays. But will not replace the Class 357 trains.
Been having a ‘bit of a morning’ clearing up wind wreckage in the garden so this was a nice little interlude. Cheers.
Ah! Fenchurch Street, such a delightfully rural sounding place. I can honestly say I have never been there except via the Monopoly Board.. Does it have the cathedral like hush of Marylebone?
More the silence of the dead
More 1980s shopping centre vibe in the 2020s. Dated and dark.
It's like an ill-used large parish church, according to Tim Traveller.
Broad Street may have had a lift shaft up from the Central Line, as I looked up the disused shaft when I worked in the cabin 1990.
Wired suggestion. After Leman St. send the trains which would serve Fenchurch At into a quad track tunnel.
Demolish the old station (the station building too but save the bricks for reconstruction afterwards). At the current location of the terminus just underground in a cut and cover tunnel (as the old station is gone,this should be easy) put a four to six tracks through station.
After the new underground Fenchurch street two tunnels attach, one connecting with the North London line at Moorgate and the other with the City widened lines also at Moorgate. Now you have through service to Themeslink and two ways to Finsburry Park and a lot of connection further west.
Not cheap but probably also not that expensive considering that you only bore about 2km of Tunnel (you could than reuse the TBMS for Crossrail 2.
I used Fenchurch Street ( From Laindon ) or neigh in 40 years - and always seemed a pain getting the Tube - but it's not really
Being from Manchester, I've never really had much of an interest in tube trains and associated subjects. However, I'm subscribed to your channel just because I like to watch your superb videos.
Hi Jago from Spain. Thank you for a visit to my, at one time, second home - the only mainline station in the City of London. Of course the quicker way was to go out of the other station exit and just walk along Crosswall and into Tower Hill.
Take care in the heat
@@simonwinter8839 Thank you. Fans and a/c are on, powered by the solar panels.
@@alejandrayalanbowman367 Is the sun shining then ? !!!!!!!!!!!
@@simonwinter8839 You bet!
@@simonwinter8839 The sun always shines, 24/7/365, though its rays do not always reach us, what with clouds and things.
The train announcement at Barking always seemed to have a slightly poetical ring about it : "The train now standing at platform eight is for Stepney East and Fenchurch Street."
It rhymes if you say it in a Mrs Doubtfire accent
With a good connection you can get off at Waterloo East, use Southwark for the Jubilee Line and be leaving London Bridge just as the passengers who disembarked at London Bridge mainline before you arrive on the platform.
When I lived in Grays, I always used Tower Hill for Fenchurch Street on my way from central London. But that was in the mid-seventies. The distance is not great.
Poss of equal query is why was the Elizabeth Line not routed toward Fenchurch Street (or at least a Pedestrian Tunnel link to Liverpool Street like the Moorgate for Northern one )
It was much more useful from a connectivity point of view to serve Liverpool Street than Fenchurch Street and the geography doesn't let you do both. Equally interesting though is that no interchange was provided further east. The two lines cross near Limehouse (NR and DLR) which looks as if it would have worked well. Maybe the extra stop and/or the expense of providing an extra station in an already developed area (especially at typical Elizabeth Line build standard) put the planners off.
I always know your comments, as well as those of Ian Kemp, are going to be knowledgeable and informative and I enjoy reading them.
@@grahamrowntree5573 Too many years living/ working in London and generally having an oblique study of the transport systems of the C20th for many years. One day I might get round to writing a history of the 1950s as I feel the political and social thinking of that time as well as actions embedded the economic and political field ever since, but it is difficult to find unbiased sources in the right places to affirm or rebut that hunch
I have always wondered this! Thank you for quelling my thought
In your shot of the old Mark Lane station you can see a set of gates similar to those in Underground stations. That is an Underground entrance to the old station and is still used by the permenant way department. The eastbound platform area is still down there and is used by staff when there are engineering works in that area.......
I normally just walk to Liverpool Street if I've gone in to Fenchurch Street, not a long walk but quite a nice one in my opinion
That could be the subject of a video - nice short walks from mainline stations - I like London Bridge and going along the South Bank
@@skyblazeeterno That is also a nice walk
As a train driver we had a walking route from FenSt to LivSt and vice versa.
So basically we're saying there was never quite enough demand to reroute an Underground line or move a station to serve FS. A cut-and-cover line would have been expensive while the deep tube lines didn't quite go in the right direction (Northern Line through Bank, Central already extended from Bank to Liv St). The LTS line connected to the Underground at Barking and, nowadays and more usefully, West Ham. Interesting though that even with the Elizabeth Line they have not bothered to provide a direct interchange with the LTS route although they cross close to Limehouse. So it's still not that easy for LTS passengers wanting to go beyond London or to other parts beyond the City. 0:05, what's wrong with "termini"? (cf. Alan Jackson).
The interchange with the Docklands at Fenchurch Street isn't all that relevant, because the Docklands goes back the way you came. If you were coming in on that line and wanted to get to the Docklands, every train stops at West Ham and most also stop at Limehouse.
As for demolishing Fenchurch Street to increase capacity, this is unlikely now as Liverpool Street has extra capacity thanks to the Elizabeth Line, so if extra trains are laid on that can't be accommodated at Fenchurch Street, they could be diverted there (possibly an entire branch).
Whether or not they'd actually be able to regularly divert trains to Liv St during the week I'm not too sure, since the current connection involves running over the Goblin from Barking onto the Liz Line tracks by Manor Park, and I'm not sure if those tracks have the spare capacity (especially at peak times)
Its on the Monopoly board though. Result!
The stations in the British game are all LNER connected stations.
I believe the suggested rebuild was on goodman’s yard, so actually about the same distance to Tower Hill
London does indeed have many main line railway termini. At least Old Oak Common is already on the Elizabeth Line.
Why did the DLR not run into Fenchurch street but into the disconnected Tower Gateway? I used to commute from Barking into Fenchurch Street in the 1980's and the advent of the DLR took two of the lines from Limehouse to Fenchurch Street stretch, this meant that whenever there was a point failure at Fenchurch Street which was a fairly regular occurance in those days the whole station closed. This involved me having to walk back often in the rain to Tower Hill where I had just come from to catch the District line that I had just got off a few minutes before to continue to Barking on the much slower District line.
I understand it was to do with not enough platform space - that said, a walkway from Tower Gateway to platform level at Fenchurch Street should not be impossible
It appears from Google that the District and Circle Lines pass close to Tower Gateway station and pretty much under the end of the platforms at Fenchurch Street. I can't just remember where the platforms at Tower Hill are in relation to the entrance to Tower Hill station, but if they could be relocated eastwards, they could be directly accessivle from both Fenchurch Street and Tower Gateway stations as well as from the current TG entrance.
Here’s a video idea for me. (Btw I’m not from the uk so yeah). Why aren’t any new tube lines being planned or built? And I’m talking not like the Elizabeth line, but like the deep tube, so central, jubilee e.t.c. I’ve always been interested by this. Anyway, keep up the good work mate!
because theyre broke!
There's no room left on the map!
Ah, fair enough
Mostly the problem is money, alas.
There are several in the pipeline right now. The Bakerloo Line extension plans from Elephant and Castle to Burgess Park, Old Kent Road, New Cross and Lewisham and possibly as far as Hayes seems to have stalled for now. A DLR extension has been mooted to Beckton Riverside,Thamesmead and possibly even Abbey Wood as well. A new Overground route in West London from Hounslow to Acton, Neasden and Hendon/West Hampstead is also being investigated.
Fenchurch Street station was why I couldn't go to sleep last night (no I am not going crazy). I wake up and now I'm haunted by it on the day.
Is there any chance of a video covering the history of the Fenchurch Street to Southend line, specifically its period as the Misery Line throughout much of the 80s and early 90s? The line was unreliable to an extent that houses closer to Liverpool Street line stations were more expensive, in part because it was a more reliable commuter service. I clearly remember the local newspaper stories about it (at least one a week), and it was even a thing that people were being turned down for jobs in London once it was discovered that they'd be relying on the Misery Line to get to work. I believe it was down to antiquated signalling more than anything else; following a complete resignalling, the line became acceptably reliable and by the time I was using it from 1994-2005, it really wasn't a significant problem.
I wonder when the c2c added Chafford Hundred (Lakeside) station.
@@clairejones7878 Wikipedia will tell you.
When the railways were privatised in the 1990's, the Fenchurch Street line was the first, as it's relatively self-contained. Obviously to make it a good advertisement for privatisation, it would have to be in a mess beforehand. No state investment and then - hey presto! - things improve miraculously on privatisation.
Yeah, I remember that period in the late 1980s ! People applying for jobs in the City getting turned down because they lived on the London Tilbury Southend (LTS) line !
Fortunately I've lived most of my life closer to the Liverpool Street , Shenfield to Southend Victoria/Colchester lines !
I did use the C2C line a bit a few years ago, when an office I was working out was at St Katherine's dock (in about 2015 ). It seemed fine then , and fares were cheaper than the Liverpool Street / Southend Victoria line !
In my experience, the whole slightly disconnected DLR/Jubilee thing in Docklands works pretty well. It enables me to find reasonably priced hotel accommodation in parts not popular with tourists (Canning Town? Anyone?) yet in easy reach of the heart of London.
The distance from the Crosswall entrance at Fenchurch St to Tower Hill is probably less than the length of an Elizabeth Line platform!!
My favourite underground station is Bumble's End but it closed in 1897 due to a debacle with a horse and some barrels of jam. It was in the City and it only had three stops- Putney, Hampstead and Birmingham.
One of the stations charms is compared to other main line stations its quiet during the weekend
Another Interesting FACT! - The Fenchurch Street train station building is shaped like a locomotive train! (See on Google Earth) 🤓
Fenchurch Street is easy to get to from Tower Hill. The only problem is you are not under ground for the short walk - and therefore at the mercy of the weather.
Here's a thought why is Fenchurch Street Station along with Marylebone, Euston and Kings Cross on the Monopoly board. It's a minor terminus like Marylebone, unlike Euston and Kings Cross?
The Thatcher government chronically under invested in the existing Underground, which became one of the main causes of the Oxford Circus Station and the Kings Cross Station fires. They also gleefully knocked down poor old Broad Street, without a thought of incorporating its platforms into Liverpool Street Station.
The DLR / Tube thing to help regenerate Docklands is a classic case for Georgism. If the government - that is the taxpayer - had built the line to Docklands all that de -facto subsidy would have ended up in land prices. That is docklands land would have increased in value. So, far better to see what happens in Docklands and then tax it to pay for the line. (That's a very short comment on a complex subject.)
It's worth reiterating that, while the interchanges, say, between the Bakerloo line and National Rail at Waterloo or between the Piccadilly Line and National Rail at King's Cross, are intuitive for visitors, for those who know where they're going they're not easier than the interchange between the Circle or District line and National Rail at Fenchurch Street. In fact they're considerably more longwinded. And even for visitors, the connection is shown on the tube and rail map and the route is signposted (though I doubt you'd want to do it at rush hour if you were relying on the signs as you'd never see them through the crowds and you'd be in everybody's way).
I also think, though it pains me to say so as a Londoner, priorities for infrastructure upgrades may have shifted, due to the pandemic, from increasing capacity to keep up with peak demand in central London, to improving the rail network's capacity, resilience and regional links across the whole country. The sector known in the BR days as Regional Rail is a shambles, quite frankly. It's in dire need of electrification, improvement of junctions and stations and, in many cases, construction of new east-west routes or link lines to enable such routes. Fenchurch Street is fine.
I thought I recognized that tube station (Aldgate). It's nearby to a hotel I stayed in when I went on holiday to London. Didn't realize Fenchurch was also nearby, I could have gone there to do some train spotting.
you also have to remember though the c2c lines have good connections at west ham to the distric and h and c and the jubile line, and also a useful connection at Limehouse for the dlr to canary wharf or poplar, i think if capicity becomes an issue, if your going to bond street or westimster for example it would make sence to change at west ham and if your going any where north london it would make sence to change for h and c and then go to the revelant connection, kings x, euston, etc
Another London station for me to visit in September! I must admit that I only knew of Fenchurch Street through a certain board game....
5:10Looks like a former Ton class minesweeper there
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Wilton_(M1116)
It is certainly a minesweeper. Afraid I know nothing about navy ships unfortunately.
Before the Wilton there was a ship called the Bembridge there, all part of a driver’s route knowledge 🙂
As part of my journey to my fiancé, I’ve asked myself this question many times lol
There was a plan which called for the railway running between the (old) Limehouse and Fenchurch street to be buried underground, and a 110 ft wide road built on top. Meanwhile, Fenchurch Street station would have been replaced with a terminus with a direct link to the London Underground. As part of a series of rebuilding works that included a massive Big Ben-sized clock-tower in Stepney prepared by Mr. Thomas H. Mawson. The new road was to be called the “Stepney Greeting” and would have seen huge numbers of workers housing and workshops demolished to further the goal of shifting more cars more rapidly.
As for Fenchurch Street itself, the original terminus was said to have been further west at Lime Street and had it also been buried underground would have likely opened up quite options as far as further extensions go. They would have been better relocating both Fenchurch Street and Tower Hill closer to each other roughly west of Minories had the mainline been pushed below ground.
The other main line stations may have Underground entrances within, but it is still a very long, seemingly never-ending walk to the trains. Especially at King's Cross, the last time that I went there. Perhaps Fenchurch Street's only difference is walking through the street to reach the tube trains.
The signposted pedestrian routes at Kings Cross have got longer since it was rebuilt - in a coupe of cases there are quicker ways. It does have the advantage of no roads to cross and not getting rained on (or other adverse weather conditions, even occasionally hot sun).
The most recent time I went there I followed the signs for "British Rail" to find I eventually came out on the Thameslink platforms, which were about half a mile from where I wanted
…and you, Sir. Jago Hazzard, are the ‘out-of-station interchange’ to my UA-cam channel !!
They could possibly extend the Waterloo and City line trough the Fenchurch street station.
Used the have a lovely interior but that was destoyed in the eighties.
Surely the thing that will happen is building a new underground DLR station, on the Bank Branch of the DLR, having that connect by tunnels to both Tower Hill and Fenchurch Street stations, and then divert all the trains to Bank, so that Fenchurch Street station can expand onto the land that the existing Tower Gateway station uses.
Yes, I think that's the plan. Fenchurch Street will move to the site of Tower Gateway.
@@RJSRdg So my suggestion (see elsewhere) to rename the station to Tower Hill is not quite so facetious.
Honestly you make the best vids Jago. Can you do a video about how the 4 london monopoly stations were chosen?
ua-cam.com/video/AbDwQILOdNE/v-deo.html
I have!
Given the early underground lines were cut and cover, we have the District line following roads and so we have a dilemma as you approach the Tower of London from the direction of Mansion House.
The most logical road to cut and cover would have been Fenchurch Street. Jewry Street to Crutched Friars to Hart Street is closer but ends at Mark Lane. Meaning a lot of demolition. Therefore Eastcheap was a better route and as you say the Metropolitan had already built to Tower Hill.
So I would blame the engineering difficulties of getting onto the street called Fenchurch Street using Cut & Cover - this precluded any serious consideration of that route. It might have been different had the Circle been built as a Tube line.
The other reason there is no direct tube connection is that most of the City of London is within walking distance from FST. Passengers for the West End can use Jubilee from West Ham, District/Circle from Tower Hill, or Central from Bank - none are fantastically convenient but none are horrendously bad connections either. The cost of building on such a central site would be very high, so it's hard to see this ever happening.
short it may be, but the walk from tower hill to fenchurch street or vice versa is incredibly packed every morning between the tower bridge/tower of london tourists and the commuters, and the pavement is far too small to cope!
I had no idea that Fenchurch Street was so close to Tower Hill and Tower Gateway, but I have had reason to use the station.
So close yet so far away! Been to Aldgate & Tower Hill many, many times yet never needed to go to or from Fenchurch St. so it remains as elusive as Brigadoon.
I have got on and off trains at both Aldgate and Tower Hill and walked and driven a little in the vicinity, but I am pretty sure I've yet to even see Fenchurch Street station in real life.
Your knowledge of this subject matter is awesome.
Yes 🙌, I agree ☝️.
I worked on the office block immediately to the right of FS, as you look at the entrance, it was known as London House then, circa 1990, and on the basement plans, there was clearly marked two 'LPTB Lift Shafts'. They were constructed for future Tube extensions. The pub down the short flight of stairs, the name escapes me, was constructed as a booking hall and circulating area!
I grew up in London, and went to school about a mile from Fenchurch Street. And I saw it on monopoly boards and things. But because it doesn't have an underground station, as a teenager I literally wondered whether it actually existed: like, was it always fictional perhaps? Did it close down or something?
It didn't occur to me that a major station in London could exist and not have a named tube station.
And that's the reason why the tube map shouldn't be limited to TfL services only. As a wee child I thought trains didn't exist in south London because there were barely any shown on the tube map...
They could rename Fenchurch Street to be Tower Hill, and it would be pretty accurate ! Job done, it has it's own London Underground interconnection !
maybe it could be "posh" and have a double barrelled name, "Fenchurch Street and Tower Hill"
Bearing in mind just how long it takes to get from many (most?) Underground stations to the terminUS bearing the same name, Fenchurch Street is probably best left as it is! It's one of the easiest connections on the system.
And it's on the Monopoly board too! Bizarrely, given the context, along with Marylebone...
Pretty sure Jago has done a video on why those stations for Monopoly. They are the 4 LNER terminal stations.
TerminUS? This is motion toward! You need the.... accusative! TerminUM.... Now write that out 500 times...
Nice flag btw
Not bizarre. It tells you the relative importance of the various stations at the time when Monopoly was designed (1930s).
@@hb1338 no it doesn't. It simply tells you who owned them when monopoly was made. The people choosing decided the stations without visiting them (except Kings Cross) and well before they arrived in London to scout out places.
Having commuted from Thorpe Bay, the easiest way to get on the tube was to get off at Barking and cross the platform for a District tube train, you could do the manoeuvre at Mile End to get onto the Central line. It did take more time though, so to get to Holborn, where I worked, I would walk from Fenchurch Street to Bank station to get the Central Line there.
I was one of the people who asked this question! Thanks Jago!
Platforms 15 to 18 at Liverpool Street are now pretty empty since the Shenfield to Liverpool Street "Lizzie Line" trains now go through their new shiny Liverpool Street station platform on towards Paddington.
I think the track is probably already there, and at times this is done, the "C2C" London Tilbury Southend trains could be redirected into the now pretty empty 4 platforms that used to be used for the Liverpool Street to Shenfield "Greater Anglia Metro" service, and thus Fenchurch Street could be closed.
and on the subject of the Liverpool Street Lizzie line platforms, they're MILES away, okay a fair walk from the main bit of Liverpool Street.
They could almost be called "Liverpool Street / Moorgate" platforms. Yet another long sub terranean walk between train lines in London ! It's Monument / Bank all over again !
Had to check the "here at Paddington" bit because I was thinking you meant at Hammersmith where there is a similar situation.
This is probably the only terminus in London that I haven't visited.
Same here and Marylebone
@@skyblazeeterno I've been to Marylebone when coming from Birmingham. Loved the Monopoly themed toilets!
During the week, Fenchurch Street is the archetypal City commuter station, indeed for City workers it's perfect as you can basically walk anywhere in the City from there, thus saving the additional cost. Any anyone needing to go further west, can always change to the Underground at West Ham.
At weekends, some C2C trains go to Liverpool Street via Stratford instead, giving better connections for leisure travellers.
I spent years living on 'the loop' line running from Fenchurch Street and I hated it. Took me an hour to get home. The services are twice as fast on Greater Anglia and the clientele are much less chavvy.
Was intrigued by the blanked out "World Trade Centre " on the old sign with the DLR logo and stopped video to read about it's unfortunate history .
Given that Tower Gateway's platforms needed to be jiggled to allow better access to Fenchurch St, it feels like something like a bridge could link the two for better connectivity. Not a Tube line, sure, but it'd be something.
Thanks for the video. For me the key to Understanding FST is to think of the District Railway not as part of "the tube" - a term which it comfortably predates. In a way the District is more of a 'Crossrail'. As you point out the central London section of the District was joined to the LT&SR by a branch line, so to speak. Think of the District and LTSR more as rival railway companies who were sharing tracks and not as part of different networks ("The Tube" and "National Rail" in modern terms). The idea of the District running trains to Southend sounds remarkable to us if we think of the District as part of the tube, but if we think of it as a suburban railway running through central London (a la Crossrail) it makes much more sense.
The parting of ways came, I think, with the decision of the District to go with the 4-rail DC electric system in use on the Underground. This rendered the junction at Bow where District trains could access the LTS&R tracks rather useless, although pre-EMUs the district carriages could be (and were) hauled by LTS&R steam locos east of where the electric traction supply stopped. Of course LTS&R got electrified much later than the Underground, and by a different system. Things may have been very different if both lines had the same traction power system.
Fenchurch Street is the quietest terminus station in London, there is only one rail route, the south Essex line from here to Southend.
Relating to the debacle at the beginning of the video of how there are many stations that serve as a terminus to main and how to say that, here is a neat plural form loaned from the Italian language: termini
I know what the future holds: More excellent videos from Jago Hazzard, that's what it holds! 😊
Fenchurch Street could become a gateway station by providing a concourse under the station with payment machines and escalator link to the surface, then connecting foot tunnels to the respective platforms at Aldgate and Tower Hill. Any commuters needing to get between these two Underground lines can get off at Aldgate and walk to Tower Hill or go to Fenchurch Street. The escalator link between Bank and Monument already exists and serves the same purpose.
Another great video
Thank you!
Jago you need to write a book that I can buy. It would be an awesome stocking filler
On the rare occasions that I have travelled into Fenchurch Street, generally out of rush hour, it is relatively easy to exit the station and walk the short distance to Tower Hill, as mentioned, but I doubt I would be so keen on this if I had to do it as a regular commute in the winter months.
My mother met my father at Fenchurch Street in the late 1940s so I have very happy memories of the station . It is a rather lovely station which I do not really think will be relocated under is it really worth it school of thought.....I do hope that I am right ......SMO
What a pretty station. A jewel in The City.
Quite why some kind of escalater link to the DLR platforms at Bank is not consider IDK. The above ground walk to Bank from Fenchurch Street is not too tedious eiether
I like how the majority of the railway termini in London are these relatively big stations that everyone sort of knows (and not just from the Monopoly board). All except Cannon Street. It seems to be this tiny terminus that never really got developed further, and these days really only ends up being used when other stations are closed.
Also, there are quite a few Out of Station Interchanges (OSIs) in London now. What I find interesting are the ones where the OSI is so close, you have to wonder why they don't just stick a roof over the street, and call it a station! Some of those OSIs are pretty funky though...
Thanks. It’s easier changing trains down the road there, than it is changing the weather 🌧☀️ As for your mention of Mark Lane, who is he 😂