Thank you for sharing and compiling! It’s a great general guideline! I know people are fickle but the 3.0-3.5 is such a gray area. The 3.5-4.0 jump is the most noticeable. I think at the 4.0 level, most players can sustain a short dink rally and be able to handle resets and better shot selection.
I feel this is a fair representation. And I agree that 4.0+ play is where the really noticeable gap begins. Similar to tennis, the level of consistency, developed weapons and strategy really begin to show. Thanks for the vid!
I'm no expert but the 3.0 and 3.5 examples seem like 2.5 and 3.0 respectively...I'd expect much better control, finesse and shot making from a 3.5 player.
But the jump to 4.0 is valid where dinking is a big step and the players were doing a lot more dinking. I find the 3.5 players I play with (or self-proclaimed 3.5 players) don't dink at all and are just bangers and do nothing but banging. But I agree that their 3.5 examples are more like 3.0
@@lkiing I'm addictive to banging (always bang the 3rd ball for example) and would be offended when you call these shots banging. A shot must have pace, direction, and some accuracy (Jack Sock's forehand for example) to be categorized as banging. Shots with little pace, no direction/intention are not banging but rather long dinks.
I was wondering about that. I’m a noob so I don’t know the ratings. I’ve played one game in my life and felt like I’d fit right in with the 3.5s in the video.
A lot of the pro players are high 5’s under 6, but this one looked like it includes at least two players in the 6.0 rating, but hard to tell. There are videos of pros trying to peg where amateur players are and were completely off…
looks fine for me, most recreational 3 & 4 players play like that. Young and competition players subtract .5 or 1. However, there is a big skill gap after 4.0.
From the video, there is a HUGE difference between the 3.5 and 4.0. Agree with @davidheathmiller that the 3.0 and 3.5 looked like 2.5 and 3.0. 4.0 and above is appropriate.
I don't need to film myself to know the 3's in my area could easily hang with these 3.5's. Our 3.5's would all be 4's in these locations. Ratings are going to be relative in every community.
Great comment, I noticed something very similar, 3.5’s in my community are like 3.0’s in one my friends city’s, and like 4.0’s in my other friends city. Obviously, there is a proper way to get a players true rating, going through the checklist, but that’s not something I feel qualified to do, not to mention, it’s super time consuming.
@@flyhighone I believe this also. If the player base in an area is coming into pickleball from different demographics then the average skill rating could be much higher or lower, but historically, and arguably still, DUPA can't really allow for that. With DUPA you get a spread of players around an average score even if the average standard in a region is actually higher or lower. The mixing between different regions/countries is not nearly high enough for sufficient rating points to move between those areas to equalise the ratings yet it seems. I think in the US the much more abundant facilities to play pickleball means a much wider range of players are getting into it. In other countries it is still a much more niche sport and more likely to be played by existing racket sports players looking for something different, potentially meaning the best players are not as far above the average rating/standard as they would be in the US.
@@fruitsnacks155 yeah, it's completely backwards though. There are people I know who think they're 3.0 but are 3.5+ compared to this video. They're gonna enter a 2.5-3.0 tournament. That's gonna suck for everyone in that tournament then lol
This looks accurate to me but large tournaments do have quite a few people play down about a half point (winners maybe even a full point). I don't think the majority of players in a 3.0/3.5/4.0 bracket are playing down however, just a decent number. Regardless games are still decently fun when mixed with a 0.5 point gap. A 4.0 team playing a 3.0 team isn't much fun, but you do see that at least in the early matches of tournaments sometimes.
Same here. Those 3.5 players were way below the skill level of my friends group on just our second day playing. That said, I have watched the 3.5 tournament matches in our area and they would stomp us.
@lobstercrostini I'm honestly worried about that now because I signed up for a tournament this Saturday and put myself in the 3.0 category, because it's my first tournament and I've only been playing a couple of months, but I do have a tennis background and per this video, I'd be playing with the 4.0s. It's a charity tournament but I don't want someone else to have a shitty time because I come off looking like I'm cheating or sandbagging.
I'm not sure if the teams in these videos are trying to rally or compete. When someone is playing competitively they aren't trying to sustain a rally, they are trying to score a point. The "sustaining a rally" criteria applies to situations when you are trying to rally.
I feel like this rating system could benefit greatly from being blown up to a 300-500 scale to make it easier to understand, or at least normalizing the use of the second decimal. There’s so much debate as to what a player at each major rating interval is. Maybe it just has to do with the fact that rounding is commonplace and it’s up for recreational and down for competitive, and so people view the rating in different lenses… but I think that makes the nature of the system unreliable
The 2.5 example in this video is inaccurate, compared to my experience. In the video, those players dont look like they could keep a rally going, even as a warm up. If a 0.5 gap should mean "the higher rated players should easily beat the lower rated players", you could make those 2.5's in the video significantly better and still lose to the 3.0's in the video. Both groups could say they're "pretty good" at pickleball.
Here in Hawaii, compared to what was shown in the video, the ratings would be seen 0.5 lower. EX) the 3.5s and 4.0s shown in the video would be rated 3.0 and 3.5 respectively. Come down to Oahu and Maui (two islands in Hawaii that are prominent for Pickleball) and you'll see what I mean. The 4.0/4.5/5.0 players here play at a very high level almost as if the matches are pro-level.
@clearsight655 The difference between 4.0s/4.5s/5.0s here in Hawaii is consistency in accuracy, reduced amount of unforced errors, and reaction speed + precision counterattacking when it comes to fast-hand battles. We just like to underrate ourselves compared to what the USAP and other states have for Pickleball rating standards. 4 months ago, when I originally posted my comment, I was at best a 4.0 (players from other states would say that I'm a 4.5) At this point in time, I've been told by visitors that I play between a 4.5/5.0 level, but at best, I consider myself 4.5
videos like this are why everyone thinks they're rated .5-1 point higher than they actually are. I could easily keep up with the "4.0" guys in this video, and I'm a 3.25 on DUPR. Don't just read a description and identify with a rating. Get a DUPR rating by playing in leagues and ranked sessions
Good idea. I made this video to present to our local City officials in an attempt to help them understand the ratings, in order to create a new schedule at our local park. Originally, I was going to add a 4.5, but felt like it was getting too long, and I was going to lose their attention.
@@flyhighone nooooooo, it’s the progression that’s interesting. This is so insanely short already, when majority of people make 10min videos by default. I think you could even edit/post this same thing and include 4.5 footage and people wouldn’t feel left out
You go to all the effort to make a video covering skill rating examples, but skip from "new advanced" (4.0) - to "literally professionals with spectators" (5.0). I wouldn't nitpick normally, but the 4.0s were really looking more like 3.75ish - which is basically the people who have decent natural athleticism and recently started taking pickleball seriously enough to try to play the game properly. And the 5.0s were definitely over 5.0s as they were legit pros. That 4.5 level giant gap is the most relevant to the majority of amateurs who are really passionate about pickleball...so it's kinda mind boggling that you just skipped it without even a note (as you did for the 1.0 - 2.0 level). EXPLAIN YOURSELF...DAMNIT!
5.0 was definitely off you arent making the open draw of a ppa or app as a 5.0. Those players were in line with or better than a lot of the 5.5 open players I know. Other than that fairly accurate
I find your match (level of play) is also very dependant on your partner. It's nice to play with 4 people of near abilities. Playing singles I can beat players who are more skilled then I am based on my Athleticism however, those same Players beat me in a Doubles match. Can you have a different Rating based on Singles or Doubles Play?
Singles and doubles might as well be different sports. Singles is basically mini-tennis, and somebody in great shape with mediocre skills can beat somebody whose pickleball skills are excellent but is too fat, too old, or too injured to cover distances. It's not useful to use your singles skills as a barometer for your overall skills in pickleball, especially if you aren't playing people who are good at singles. That being said, all the real OGs are good at both 😎
Based on this video, there are a ton of sandbaggers calling themselves 3.5s where I play (including me). Last weekend at the tournament held at my courts the winner of the 3.5s were easily 5.0s based on your video. It's a shame how subjective the rating system is. Especially when people are competing in tournament play where they pay to play, and there's a chance to win money as well.
Thanks for your comment, a few points that I would like to mention: 1. I really should create a more detailed, this one was just for a local presentation, I never imagined that it would get all of these views! 2. From what I have learned, players can have different ratings on different aspects of their game, culminating in a final score. For example, someone can be a rated 4.5 on their serve, and 3.5 on their kitchen game. To do a proper rating is time-consuming and complicated, so most people I see are assuming their ratings, or taking it from their tournament play. 3. Sandbagging is a legit issue, especially in Tournament play, I’ve experienced it more than once. Furthermore, the rating system seems to be geographic, for example, a 3.5 in Boca Raton, FL, is like a 4.5 in Columbus, OH.
I’m a tennis player and I find pickleball extremely easy. I’m definitely a 4.5-5. I think pickleball as an activity rather than a sport. You could also called it American tennis because it’s so lazy.
Here's my take is a tennis player and now avid pickleballer. Yes, hitting a PB is easy, however, the strategy is entirely different than tennis and even the pro tennis players such as Jack Sock will not progress to the top of the game until they've mastered the nuances of the game. Also, I see lazy tennis dubs every day on the courts.
What do you know? My skill rating just increased by a half point and I didn't even leave my chair!
Thank you for sharing and compiling! It’s a great general guideline! I know people are fickle but the 3.0-3.5 is such a gray area. The 3.5-4.0 jump is the most noticeable. I think at the 4.0 level, most players can sustain a short dink rally and be able to handle resets and better shot selection.
I feel this is a fair representation. And I agree that 4.0+ play is where the really noticeable gap begins. Similar to tennis, the level of consistency, developed weapons and strategy really begin to show. Thanks for the vid!
I'm no expert but the 3.0 and 3.5 examples seem like 2.5 and 3.0 respectively...I'd expect much better control, finesse and shot making from a 3.5 player.
But the jump to 4.0 is valid where dinking is a big step and the players were doing a lot more dinking. I find the 3.5 players I play with (or self-proclaimed 3.5 players) don't dink at all and are just bangers and do nothing but banging. But I agree that their 3.5 examples are more like 3.0
I also thought 2.5 example was not 2.5. None of them sustained a short rally
@@lkiing I'm addictive to banging (always bang the 3rd ball for example) and would be offended when you call these shots banging. A shot must have pace, direction, and some accuracy (Jack Sock's forehand for example) to be categorized as banging. Shots with little pace, no direction/intention are not banging but rather long dinks.
I was wondering about that. I’m a noob so I don’t know the ratings. I’ve played one game in my life and felt like I’d fit right in with the 3.5s in the video.
I think the same about their 2.5 example.
Your 5.0 example is literally a pro match, big difference😂
A lot of the pro players are high 5’s under 6, but this one looked like it includes at least two players in the 6.0 rating, but hard to tell. There are videos of pros trying to peg where amateur players are and were completely off…
Callan Dawson in the foreground is around a mid 6.
Spencer Smith on the far side is a 6.48 so…
This is a video about USAPA rating/guidelines. This isn't about DUPR.
@@wulymammoth 6.48? Wow. Now that is a precision rating system.
Very useful video! Based on your thumbnail, I guess 3.5 is the level where you learn how to become a ghost. Haha.
Hahaha, awesome comment! This video was created for a presentation, not much attention paid to the thumbnail, but based on your comment, I nailed it!
looks fine for me, most recreational 3 & 4 players play like that. Young and competition players subtract .5 or 1. However, there is a big skill gap after 4.0.
The 3.0 is a 2.5 in our league. One upsetting thing about pickleball is the lack of standards as far as rating.
From the video, there is a HUGE difference between the 3.5 and 4.0. Agree with @davidheathmiller that the 3.0 and 3.5 looked like 2.5 and 3.0. 4.0 and above is appropriate.
I don't need to film myself to know the 3's in my area could easily hang with these 3.5's. Our 3.5's would all be 4's in these locations. Ratings are going to be relative in every community.
Great comment, I noticed something very similar, 3.5’s in my community are like 3.0’s in one my friends city’s, and like 4.0’s in my other friends city. Obviously, there is a proper way to get a players true rating, going through the checklist, but that’s not something I feel qualified to do, not to mention, it’s super time consuming.
@@flyhighone I believe this also. If the player base in an area is coming into pickleball from different demographics then the average skill rating could be much higher or lower, but historically, and arguably still, DUPA can't really allow for that. With DUPA you get a spread of players around an average score even if the average standard in a region is actually higher or lower. The mixing between different regions/countries is not nearly high enough for sufficient rating points to move between those areas to equalise the ratings yet it seems.
I think in the US the much more abundant facilities to play pickleball means a much wider range of players are getting into it. In other countries it is still a much more niche sport and more likely to be played by existing racket sports players looking for something different, potentially meaning the best players are not as far above the average rating/standard as they would be in the US.
The stumps at the 2.5 level were spot on 😂😂
Thanks for this guide. It gives me an idea of my rating.
Where are these clips from? The 3.0, 3.5, and 4.0 shown here appear worse than what I've experienced.
the difference is that people don’t know how to rate themselves. people always put themselves in the wrong category
@@fruitsnacks155 yeah, it's completely backwards though.
There are people I know who think they're 3.0 but are 3.5+ compared to this video. They're gonna enter a 2.5-3.0 tournament. That's gonna suck for everyone in that tournament then lol
This looks accurate to me but large tournaments do have quite a few people play down about a half point (winners maybe even a full point). I don't think the majority of players in a 3.0/3.5/4.0 bracket are playing down however, just a decent number.
Regardless games are still decently fun when mixed with a 0.5 point gap. A 4.0 team playing a 3.0 team isn't much fun, but you do see that at least in the early matches of tournaments sometimes.
Same here. Those 3.5 players were way below the skill level of my friends group on just our second day playing. That said, I have watched the 3.5 tournament matches in our area and they would stomp us.
@lobstercrostini I'm honestly worried about that now because I signed up for a tournament this Saturday and put myself in the 3.0 category, because it's my first tournament and I've only been playing a couple of months, but I do have a tennis background and per this video, I'd be playing with the 4.0s. It's a charity tournament but I don't want someone else to have a shitty time because I come off looking like I'm cheating or sandbagging.
This is way off in reality. 3.0 players are much better than described/shown and so are 3.5 players
Not true on the whole, but definitely true if you are watching medal rounds of "nationals" play and the like.
Na not really no
I'm not sure if the teams in these videos are trying to rally or compete. When someone is playing competitively they aren't trying to sustain a rally, they are trying to score a point. The "sustaining a rally" criteria applies to situations when you are trying to rally.
I feel like this rating system could benefit greatly from being blown up to a 300-500 scale to make it easier to understand, or at least normalizing the use of the second decimal. There’s so much debate as to what a player at each major rating interval is. Maybe it just has to do with the fact that rounding is commonplace and it’s up for recreational and down for competitive, and so people view the rating in different lenses… but I think that makes the nature of the system unreliable
The 2.5 example in this video is inaccurate, compared to my experience. In the video, those players dont look like they could keep a rally going, even as a warm up.
If a 0.5 gap should mean "the higher rated players should easily beat the lower rated players", you could make those 2.5's in the video significantly better and still lose to the 3.0's in the video. Both groups could say they're "pretty good" at pickleball.
Here in Hawaii, compared to what was shown in the video, the ratings would be seen 0.5 lower.
EX) the 3.5s and 4.0s shown in the video would be rated 3.0 and 3.5 respectively.
Come down to Oahu and Maui (two islands in Hawaii that are prominent for Pickleball) and you'll see what I mean. The 4.0/4.5/5.0 players here play at a very high level almost as if the matches are pro-level.
So 4.0 and 5.0 play the same level there?
@clearsight655 The difference between 4.0s/4.5s/5.0s here in Hawaii is consistency in accuracy, reduced amount of unforced errors, and reaction speed + precision counterattacking when it comes to fast-hand battles.
We just like to underrate ourselves compared to what the USAP and other states have for Pickleball rating standards.
4 months ago, when I originally posted my comment, I was at best a 4.0 (players from other states would say that I'm a 4.5)
At this point in time, I've been told by visitors that I play between a 4.5/5.0 level, but at best, I consider myself 4.5
Here in Northern California, those 3.0s would be 2.5s, the 3.5s would be 3.0s, and the 4.0s would be 3.5s.
exactly what I was thinking.
pretty standard for areas with a higher population
Okay, good. I thought I was going crazy for a second. The so-called 3.5s in this video would get hammered by most of the players on my local court.
This was a great idea! amazing video. Big sub from me. It's crazy how fast the difference can be
No 4.5? Why not?
Is there a dupr of some days I’m a 0.5 and others I’m a 3.0? Cause that’s me.
videos like this are why everyone thinks they're rated .5-1 point higher than they actually are. I could easily keep up with the "4.0" guys in this video, and I'm a 3.25 on DUPR. Don't just read a description and identify with a rating. Get a DUPR rating by playing in leagues and ranked sessions
Dang, was hoping there’d be a 4.5 section
Good idea. I made this video to present to our local City officials in an attempt to help them understand the ratings, in order to create a new schedule at our local park. Originally, I was going to add a 4.5, but felt like it was getting too long, and I was going to lose their attention.
@@flyhighone nooooooo, it’s the progression that’s interesting. This is so insanely short already, when majority of people make 10min videos by default. I think you could even edit/post this same thing and include 4.5 footage and people wouldn’t feel left out
@@flyhighone I think 4.5 is a really important distinction. Maybe next video :)
Thank you! I needed this! 😂
Nice video. Im no expert but I found the ratings half a point higher than what I have seen.
The 3.5 in this video is a 3.0 in Oklahoma. Lots of tough players.
You go to all the effort to make a video covering skill rating examples, but skip from "new advanced" (4.0) - to "literally professionals with spectators" (5.0).
I wouldn't nitpick normally, but the 4.0s were really looking more like 3.75ish - which is basically the people who have decent natural athleticism and recently started taking pickleball seriously enough to try to play the game properly. And the 5.0s were definitely over 5.0s as they were legit pros.
That 4.5 level giant gap is the most relevant to the majority of amateurs who are really passionate about pickleball...so it's kinda mind boggling that you just skipped it without even a note (as you did for the 1.0 - 2.0 level).
EXPLAIN YOURSELF...DAMNIT!
5.0 was definitely off you arent making the open draw of a ppa or app as a 5.0. Those players were in line with or better than a lot of the 5.5 open players I know. Other than that fairly accurate
I find your match (level of play) is also very dependant on your partner. It's nice to play with 4 people of near abilities. Playing singles I can beat players who are more skilled then I am based on my Athleticism however, those same Players beat me in a Doubles match. Can you have a different Rating based on Singles or Doubles Play?
Yes. If you use DUPR, you get separate ratings for singles and doubles play.
There are pro players with a near 2 point gap between their singles and doubles play
Singles and doubles might as well be different sports. Singles is basically mini-tennis, and somebody in great shape with mediocre skills can beat somebody whose pickleball skills are excellent but is too fat, too old, or too injured to cover distances. It's not useful to use your singles skills as a barometer for your overall skills in pickleball, especially if you aren't playing people who are good at singles. That being said, all the real OGs are good at both 😎
Is there an individual ranking for doubles play and singles play?
Based on the video I am a 4, but that video is way too generous. I am in reality under 3.5.
move all the ratings .5 down and that's your rating if your using this vid.
True 3.5 is WAY better than what you showed!
Shooot if thats what 3.0 looks like, im a 5 fr fr. Joking aside i think 3.0 looks more like 2.5 tbh
Basically the age just gets younger haha
New advanced looks to be 3.75. No way a 4.0. Also u skipped over 4.5
Is 5 the top?
I would consider myself a 3.5 but pretty sure I would destroy the 3.5’s in this video
Those 3.5 were painful to watch too…
There is at least level (or two) in between 4.0 and professional pickleball lol
But people 4.0 play in 3.5 for medals 😅
Those 3.0 were painful to watch…
4.0 example is not 4.0
I love 2.5 pickleball, its the best & most entertaining level to watch
Haha best comment!
Here in AL you'd subtract a full point from those players...video's 4.0 would be 3.0-3.25
Based on this video, there are a ton of sandbaggers calling themselves 3.5s where I play (including me). Last weekend at the tournament held at my courts the winner of the 3.5s were easily 5.0s based on your video. It's a shame how subjective the rating system is. Especially when people are competing in tournament play where they pay to play, and there's a chance to win money as well.
Thanks for your comment, a few points that I would like to mention:
1. I really should create a more detailed, this one was just for a local presentation, I never imagined that it would get all of these views!
2. From what I have learned, players can have different ratings on different aspects of their game, culminating in a final score. For example, someone can be a rated 4.5 on their serve, and 3.5 on their kitchen game. To do a proper rating is time-consuming and complicated, so most people I see are assuming their ratings, or taking it from their tournament play.
3. Sandbagging is a legit issue, especially in Tournament play, I’ve experienced it more than once. Furthermore, the rating system seems to be geographic, for example, a 3.5 in Boca Raton, FL, is like a 4.5 in Columbus, OH.
Wait.
They have professional pickleball players?!🤣🤣🤣🤣
These seem all to high, except for pro level at 5.0
USA pickleball rating is much lower than Dupre
I consider myself a 3.25 but im way better than the 3.5 examples. Just my opinion
so IMO each level you state is a certain level is down a half. ex 5.0 was 4.5 and the 4.0's were 3.5's and so on.... as i stated this is IMO!!
These player examples should all be down a level. There’s no way that 3.5 example is correct.
Its correct. Most 3.5s think they better than they are. Put yourself on video on you'll see
Some of those 4.0 are like 3.0… painful to watch…
I must be a 6.0
I’m a tennis player and I find pickleball extremely easy. I’m definitely a 4.5-5. I think pickleball as an activity rather than a sport. You could also called it American tennis because it’s so lazy.
Its a sport. Dont be a snob.
All sports are activities..
it's more reflexes than tennis, less running. If flag footballs in the olympics, then PB is a sport.
Here's my take is a tennis player and now avid pickleballer. Yes, hitting a PB is easy, however, the strategy is entirely different than tennis and even the pro tennis players such as Jack Sock will not progress to the top of the game until they've mastered the nuances of the game. Also, I see lazy tennis dubs every day on the courts.
dupr is a money making joke.