Bro, come on. Don't. You know the facts. You've stated them. You know Dubas has been horrible as a GM and basically a freaking fraud (he knows people, that's it). The excuses after excuses people keep giving that guy, it's insane. This level of coping mechanism and confirmation bias, flying in the face of YEARS of horrible management (every facets of his job description he sucked at), against all facts, is cult behavior. Rob said it and demonstrated it more than a year ago, BEFORE most of his horrible moves in Pit : he's a fraud. Would ANYONE who has any kind of a freaking profession, hire this guy to negotiate anything? Like, oh, I don't know, employees' contracts in a business of any size? To MANAGE (yes the "M" in GM is about managing I believe) anything? Finally, again for those who work for a living and have any level of work ethic and integrity, WHEN should he take responsibility then? I get it Eck, you definitely do not want to deal with BS from fanatics arboring a cult of personality for a guy who turns everything he's involved in into a laughing stock. Especially not while the NHL is destroying your channel. It's understandable. But you SPECIFICALLY talked about horrible moves that DUBAS made. Was he forced to make an old team even older? Was he forced to pick the worst contract in the market to fill a position that was filled already? Was he forced to screw the cap EVEN MORE than it already was WHILE making the team worst? Was he forced to trade a superstar for NOTHING? Was he forced to accept the job if the situation was so hopeless to begin with? You never implied that the team had been well managed before he got there, you pointed out, specifically, what DUBAS did about it. If this is how people decline to take responsibility in their own life for their own failures, then maybe, just maybe, the comments that forced you to post this are PROJECTING like it's going out of style. I'm just going to end this with the following (since nobody who's currently debasing themselves against all logic and reason anyway) : IF Dubas had managed to turn the Pens around, would he be credited for that success or not? OF COURSE HE WOULD, even with his horrible previous job with the Leafs. I would applaud him. But if it's ALWAYS the fault of others according to his rabbid cult members, you CANNOT have it both ways; but let's be real, they still would applaud him, because poor Dubas is a tragic victim - fully responsible for anything good he does, never responsible for anything in the looooooooong list of horrible decisions he's made. It's like a religion I swear. I know life in Toronto is disgusting. Believe me, I KNOW. So then why make everything even worst by letting a proven incompetent douche put all of you in that sort of Stockholm Syndrome, that state of useless denial? LET. IT. GO. Thanks for the vid Eck, looking forward to your next SW vid. I just hope you don't let yourself be bullied by fallacies, by things you never mentioned or implied in this video. If you have a moment, go rewatch Rob's old vid on this subject. You don't deserve BS from stating facts. Take care.
No one's perfect and everyone is entitled to their opinions, but a guy who knows hockey like you should definitely know to look beyond the surface to truly understand what's happened with the Penguins and Dubas' role in that. Dubas is far from perfect as well but most hockey people know he is not the main reason, let alone the only one, for Pittsburg's problems. If you just wanted to hate on Dubas then just make a video about it and don't make it about running the Penguins into the ground.
@@hottuna2006 Thankfully Eck never said that Dubas was "the main reason" or that he's the "only one" at fault for "Pittsburg's problems." He specifically mentioned moves and trades that Dubas did, himself, like a big boy. And big boys, when they get hired to help fix a problem and only makes it worse in almost comical ways, they take responsibility. So, aside your own projection about stuff that was never said in his video, what the issue again? You cultists need to LET. IT. GO. Dubas has been hired by two vastly different teams to MANAGE, and he was, and has been, very bad at it. How many more years of being a bad GM, how many cities must he make a laughing stock off, before this freaking charade stops once and for all? This is so strange bro. So strange.
It's not (entirely) Dubas' fault. Hextall was legitimately one of the worst GMs of all time, and Dubas was given instructions that he had to keep the core together and attempt to remain competitive.
He was allegedly trying to break up the core in Toronto, allegedly, Shanahan said no then fired him. Why would he go to a team that wasn't going to allow him to break up an aging core?
@@richkamminga4283Hence why specified entirely. Bringing in Karlsson isn't looking like the savvyest move in retrospect, but I'd hardly call it disastrous considering that Granlund needed to get out of Pittsburgh.
@@LoganSaunders-n8c yep, also, for the toronto aspect, shanahan has been there alot longer then dubas, do you not put the blame a little on him as well. ultimately, do you ask who's decision it's been to keep there top 4 players, being paid mostly double digits?
Don't ignore how bad Hextall screwed them. Dubas was hired by FSG to basically rebuild the entire Pens organization & they gave him (at minimum) a 5 year guaranteed deal bc these things take time. Let him cook.
did hextall screw the organization? yes. did dubas make it worse by trading for karlsson and signing players like jarry and graves to exorbitant deals? also yes.
@@theniskycap8612 Jarry was a mistake, but the Karlsson move was not a mistake. He got a great player and also got rid of Granlund, Petry, Rutta, and Desmith, who nobody would actually trade for unless they were in a package deal. Yes, the cap hit is big but he got rid of so many bad Hextall contracts that he damn near saved money by bringing EK in
I'm sorry but this is just incorrect. Dubas walked into the absolute dumpster fire that was left by Hextall and had to try to pick up the pieces. Has Dubas made some questionable moves? Yes. Was he the one that protected Jeff goddamn Carter over Brandon Tanev in the Seattle Expansion draft? or took on Granlund's awful contract? or traded Jared McCann to Toronto? or Traded John Marino and Mike Matheson for nothing? This all comes back to Hextall, Dubas is just trying to pick up the pieces and build for the future
@parkerodonoghue6057 The EK65 trade was brilliant, what do you mean? He gave up 1 1st round pick and unloaded about 6 or 7 bad contracts to get a defenseman who had just won the Norris trophy. He got rid of Rutta, Petry, Granlund, and Desmith, all who were overpayed by Hextall
@@parkerodonoghue6057if Graves had played the way he was in NJ, it would have been worth it. He had no way of knowing he would regress, that's ridiculous to put that on him
The pieces that could have kept us competitive in Jared McCann, Teddy Blueger, John Marino, Mike Matheson were all traded away for nothing. Brandon Tanev was left unprotected in order to keep Jeff Carter along with letting Freddy Gaudreau and Evan Rodriguez walk. Jan Rutta, Jeff Petry, Mikael Grandlund, Brock McGinn being the big names landed during the Hextall era. These are the moves that have us as a struggling franchise. Yes Graves and Jarry have proven to be bad contracts but not really sure what Dubas was supposed to do when Hextall pissed away all our talent and value.
He traded away a lot of depth pieces that would’ve given the Pens a shot at the playoffs. He never intended to get the Pens back to contending, wait and see the 5 year rebuild where they miss the playoffs and Sid retires.
Lifelong Pens fan here. Hextall FUCKED the franchise horrifically. Dubas is doing what he can. Jarry was the only real option for goaltending at free agency, the signing of EK is still a net positive because it cleared the team of a lot of real slop from the Hextall era, and Guentzel was gone regardless so you gotta take what you can get. The team is fucked in the short term, but Dubas is doing what little is possible to keep the team okay for the end of the core's careers.
No Offense Eck, but pretty rough take here on both ends. The Penguins have been on a downwards trajectory for years - it's clear they're stuck in the not terrible and not great phase, just mediocre. And they don't want to move on to rebuilding yet because of Crosby's shining legacy. Waiting for him to retire. As for Dubas and the Toronto fiasco - it was mostly on the team and Sheldon Keefe. Soft players and softer coach. Year after year of getting run over in the first round of the playoffs - zero accountability by anyone on the ice or behind the bench. Incredibly strange video for you to post - blaming one man for the failures of two organizations that had issues on so many deeper levels.
I agree on some things. I don't blame him primarily for the Leafs failures. Jarry signing is bad, but hindsight is 20/20. I will say, I was a skeptic of the EK trade at the time edit: after reading up on it a bit more, EK trade wasn't even bad really. I don't think he's what they needed, but they got rid of bad contracts (which should at least even it out, even with EK not scoring at the same pace) and actually ended up with more cap space
I agree with you. Hot take: I think Dubas has done an incredible job in Pittsburgh. They have a few minor league and younger players people are actually paying attention to for the first time in almost a decade. They still have draft picks. Jarry's deal? He was literally the best goalie available in that offseason. There was talk about him being on Team Canada as their goalie if he could stay healthy. Was there questions about his injuries and consistency? Yes. Probably why his contract was only for $5.3mil/year. What GM wouldn't have made that deal? The Graves deal? He had 26 points and a +34 the previous year playing almost 20 minutes per game on the Devils, playing on one of the best defensive teams in the leagues that year. So Dubas signed a 6'5" 27 year old defenseman for $4.5mil/year. That was a bad deal? The Karlsson deal was literally all of our bad players and contracts for the reigning Norris trophy winner. And it SAVED the Pens cap space. That wasn't a bad deal... that was a miracle. When everyone was saying he was awful and not contributing, they clearly weren't going to the games and seeing him play. He led the NHL in defensive zone breakouts. He regularly leads in possession numbers. The biggest problem with this team? Mike Sullivan. His system is tired and non-dynamic. Most of the time, the Pens don't even look like they are trying to score. They have skill levels from Crosby down to guys like Nieto, but Sully insists everyone play the same style. It's ridiculous. The Pens last year were 28th in the league in points off the rush. They don't even try to score that way. Do they try to get Karlsson involved in the offense? Nope. Letang? Nope again... they've been having Matt Frickin Grzelcyk on the top power play unit. That is insane. He should be fired just for that!
Dubas signed Graves and Jarry and failed to re-sign Evan Rodrigues. Those were mistakes. He also signed Phil Tomasino and Alex Nedeljkovic, which were decidedly not mistakes. Dubas is doing the best he can with what he has left to work with after Hextall's gutting (Jared McCann and Brandon Tanev especially) of the organization. Edit: Maybe if Dubas hadn't signed Jarry and Graves there would have been cap space to re-sign Jake but he was due a big raise after the production he brought to the Pens. At least Michael Bunting has been a bright spot so far.
@@bradjones9784 Disagree. He had a short handed goal against the Rangers during the playoffs that season and I believe if they would have beat the Rangers in Game 7 he would have been huge in any subsequent series. He's proved in Florida that he's a playoff performer.
Rodrigues wasn't coming back because he was in Sullivan's doghouse. That's the real problem: the Penguins' absolute, unconditional loyalty to Sullivan.
@neithermanc1 Well, first of all, Dubas never had Rodriguez to re-sign because he left the Penguins the summer before Hextall was fire. There were reports that he turned down a 3 year deal from Hextall because his agent thought he could get better in FA. He was wrong. I also think you should go back and watch that Rangers series again. You forgot the turning point in game 6 when he took the absolutely stupid penalty with the game and series under the Pens control. It was the tipping point. The Rangers scored less than 10 seconds into the pp. If he doesnt retaliate, the Penguins likely win the series. He also had multiple defensive lapses in game 5 and looked terrible. Everyone is remembering him with rose colored glasses , ow but he skated almost that entire year on the first line with top pp minutes and only had 49 points and 19 goals. He was a below average player to the Penguins.
I don't agree with this take, Eck. Dubas put on a hazmat suit and a fireproof vest and was handed a dumpster fire of a team that was run into the ground by the previous regime. He was bound to get burned in this situation even with the amount of protection he put on.
Yeah, bad take here, Eck, apologies. Hextall and Burke screwed the Penguins beyond belief. Dubas was hired to basically rebuild the Penguins in a near-impossible situation, and they guaranteed him a minimum five year deal due to how disastrous it truly was over there. Penguins suck, sure, but no one can remedy the dumpster fire that was created before he arrived. Dubas surely has made some questionable decisions, but he was attempting to prolong the core three's careers in Pittsburgh as long as possible. I'm sure we'll see a fire sale come deadline time. The criticism for Dubas is ridiculous, he's working with what he's been given, which is essentially nothing. We'll have to wait a few more years to figure out if the Penguins can be fixed. Cheers.
He was hired to rebuild? Then why did he try to retool? Those are two completely different things. If it was so obvious to you they needed a rebuild why didn't Dubas see it?Dubas made the wrong decision immediately, Dubas poured water on a grease fire, it's definitely not all on Burke and Hextall,
Yeah no it's not a bad take. Dubas was the GM of the Leafs for 5 years or however long it was.....that team was STACKED and he did bad things with that team aswell. Hell he couldn't even build a team capable of getting out of the first round......yet you expect him to save your franchise?
@@matthewthomas1929 Dubas definitely stepped into a challenging situation, but so did Hextall and Burke. They inherited a mess from Rutherford (aging cap team with little in terms of prospects and picks). Yes, they did some things to make it worse, but so has Dubas. Likely just as many if not more. He didn't rebuild anything, he doubled down with that insane Karlsson trade that certainly wasn't needed (he wanted him in TOR as well, but was vetoed by Shanahan, which is why Dubas wanted more autonomy in his next role). There may also be some direction from ownership as well. I don't think they wanted to move on from anyone in the core group, which is what was needed if you are doing a rebuild.
The problem is that prolonging was not a wise course of action, if anything not committing to a rebuild is stalking the core 3’s career. He promised monorail, that being them getting back to contention, instead the team is wrecked again.
@ this. It was wrong to prolong. He should have just rebuilt instead of attempting to retool, it's not working and won't work. But, getting the situation in Pittsburgh remedied both now and when Dubas first came is not an easy task. Crosby, Malkin and Letang are the heart and soul of that organization, the players that drive fans. Getting rid of them is basically the sign that they'll be in a full-on rebuild. However, doing what he's doing isn't helping anymore, if it ever did. Need change. Cheers.
Boo. Dubas got handed a dumpster fire after hextall. The fact that we are even still a wildcard contender is crazy. Sure the Jarry deal is bad but at the time it made sense. A rising star goalie for $5m? Yes please!
Normally I agree with your commentary, but this is just wrong for the most part. They traded a third round pick for Reilly Smith, he was mediocre, then they flipped him for a second. That's a win any way you cut it. Serivalli's article is full of mistakes like that, using him as a source is questionable at best. The Karlsson trade got them out of multiple really bad contracts as well- they *gained* cap space from that trade. He hasn't been amazing, but looking at point totals alone is pretty lazy analysis. And entirely ignoring the disaster that was the Hextall era is also a strange decision to make, considering how many of these problems started before Dubas ever got here. Just overall I don't think you did a good job actually evaluating what's happening with the team. Seems like a thin excuse to dunk on Dubas, tbh.
Agreed lol, also Dubas has been accumulating picks like crazy and got lots of prospects from the Guentzel trade that have been working out pretty well in WBS so far. Everyone seems to forget that the Karlsson trade helped the team get rid of awful contracts and that the year he signed Jarry there were no better options on the market. Yeah, not all of his decisions have worked out but I've seen more people from the leafs media and fans criticize him than actual Pens fans. Don't agree with this take at all.
He also failed to mention the 3 prospects they got from the Guentzal trade which were the primary pieces. Incredibly lazy and Dubas actively wasn’t trying to win this year, it’s all about collecting future assets (ie the Hayes and Glass deal and signing UFAs to one-year deals to flip at the TDL). This offseason will be a critical one to show if they’re committed to tear everything down or aim for a soft landing and use their cap space to get better.
@@chillsavage everyone talking about dubas right now is failing to mention the prospects, the trade is still semi underwhelming as Lucius and ponomarev dont really do much for me, but Koivunen is playing well in the AHL as well as Brunicke seems to be a steal from the 2nd round pick. Pretty annoying seeing all these people just ignore things like the prospect pool and the mess he was left which.
@ their system has jumped 10 spots in the Athletics rankings since he took over. There is finally some NHL-caliber talent in the system. The roster he took over had two players under 25, fundamentally don’t understand what others expected him to do in the time he’s had thus far.
It’s good to see the fans defending Dubas against content creators like Eck, SDP and Spittin Chiclets for their horrible takes. Anyone can see that Hextall and Burke gutted the Pens Organization like a fish and Dubas was given a task by Fenway Sports to try and fix this team into a contender while Crosby is still around
@@SticksAndTapeI'm a canes fan who wants the pens to be dogshit, and this is just wrong. The EK trade let you guys dump a ton of horrible contracts in exchange for taking on one, it was absolutely a good move. I also don't think Jarry was that horrible of a deal, it's obviously not a good value for money contract right now but that's a risk you take when signing such an inconsistent position. There's no great way to evaluate goalies, as nobody's ever figured out any stable year-to-year stats for them. Signing goalies is always a risk but the important thing to note is that *not* signing a goalie carries the exact same risk. Graves is a the only bad deal he's made until you start adding enormous amounts of hindsight; he got plenty from Carolina considering he had literally no leverage in a rental move like that.
Very rare Eck L right here, good amount of incorrect info. A lot of the damage in this team was done by Hextall, signing multiple veterans to long deals with no trade clauses and trading for others with atrocious contracts that did not work well with the team whatsoever (like Jeff Petry and Mikael Granlund). Dubas traded Granlund, Petry and more for Karlsson, and actually gained cap space in doing so. I don’t think Karlsson has fit well in Pittsburgh, but I’d take him over how piss poor Granlund and Petry played. They also got three prospects on top of Bunting and the draft picks in exchange for Guentzel. One now has played a few NHL games, another other is on the verge, the third one is in the NCAA. Remember that Dubas is basically tasked to rebuild the team for the future, while trying to stay competitive while the core three are still playing. And this year, he’s acquired younger players for cheap (Tomasino and Glass), and they’ve both produced to some extent. Tomasino I’d argue has been a steal. And he was able to flip Reilly Smith for an even higher return than when he got him from Vegas. The only move I’ve disliked since day one is the Jarry deal, we all know how that’s gone. In the end, he inherited a dumpster fire and turned it into just a dumpster.
As a lifelong Penguins fan, this is all an act of recovery from the short lived Hextall era. I think that the Penguins are doing OKAY this season. Sure, our record doesn't show it but when we have good games, we have a tendency to shine bright. Our lowest point heading into this season was our defense and at the end of December (and especially us versus LA and Buffalo) we were able to be a lot more mindful on the defense and I think Pickering being called up has greatly impacted us for the better. Our main problem is the veteran defensemen and I hate saying it but Letang has just existed on the team. He's had some decent moments but I see Grzelcyk and Pettersson being surprisingly strong for the Pens. Our biggest downfalls on the team currently are us still overpaying for Ryan Graves, Matt Nieto existing on the team, and the whole Goalie fiasco. Nedeljkovic has been solid but it hasn't been like this the whole season as him and Jarry have quite similar stats. The main difference between Ned and Jarry is that one of them is expected to be far better than the other as a Starting goalie. Lizotte is one of my favorite players on the team, I think he just gets bad luck with the puck, Accari is willing to die for the team to ensure a puck doesn't get near the goalie (Hell I'd almost say that Accari should be a defenseman, only thing is that he likes shooting the puck too much), Rakell and Rust keep the team alive, and having Bunting is just a nice additional player for insurance. Dubas' young talents in Cody Glass and Tomasino show great promise in their play and I think that we can absolutely work with them for good depth of the team. We definitely probably won't make the playoffs but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, I'm not sure if that light is a train coming at us or a beautiful sunset but there's something there. Us Pens fans can only hope that his future prospect scouting is as good as it was in Toronto and that his trades coming up actually benefit the team coming down the stretch.
Absolutely not, the Guentzel trade might be one of his best moves. You didn’t list the three other major assets in that deal, the already developing prospects. They got that for 30 games of Guentzel. Also, the second looks like it could be a hit (Harrison Brunicke). Life isn’t always about getting the 25th overall pick back in a trade
Yeah I love how he's like "all the other trades got 1st picks" as if a 2nd, and then ALL the players and assets he got somehow doesn't add up to way more than just a 1st round pick lol. This video was brutal.
The Penguins are a disaster but I just don't see how anyone expected otherwise. Year after year without a first round pick, trading futures for their win now window from 2008-2018. They did pick up 3 cups and now they're bad. That's how the salary cap era works. See Chicago, Detroit, etc.
I really don't know if people outside of pittsburgh realize how handicapped Dubas has been by being forced to keep malkin and letang around to keep sid happy. This whole team is structured around SID being happy. The team literally pouted after the guentzel trade which was not working out because of the money he wanted AND the team was playing like crap so either you trade him for something or potentially watch him walk in the off season. The jarry signing was for sure too much and too long but there weren't any great options on the market that off season. Karlsson was suppose to come in after his norris season and fix the powerplay and it unfortunately didn't work out but they didn't lose a ton to get him other than the cap space and his contract expires around the same time as malkin and letang. Smith was a chance on someone who'd just won the cup and he got rid of him as soon as he realized it wasn't working. Maybe ill end up hating him but I don't feel like he's gotten a fair chance at rebuilding this team yet. I also think sullivan would have been out a while ago if he wasn't buddy buddy with fsg.
All this shitting on Dubas is so weird seeing as a pens fan. I'm really happy with Dubas so far. EK65 trade was awesome and love to have him on the team. Graves and Jarry were misses but at the time of those decisions it was nothing crazy to me. I don't understand this dogpiling at all and am excited to see what moves comes next.
Sure things look bleak right now but seeing how the prospect pool looks already has gotten me very hopeful for the near and distant future. As much as I rag on Karlsson he did get a lot of bad deals out the door with it. I would rather pay Karlsson 10m a year than all the other little bullshit contracts that we had for passengers.
I see a lot of people talking about how bad the system was that Dubas was hired to fix because of Hextall's time in Pittsburgh, but they neglect to mention how bad the system was that Hextall inherited. During his time as GM, Jim Rutherford had gutted the Pens minor league systems trying to stay in that "win now" mode. If you look at the deals that Dubas is given the most grief for, they're not really that bad. Reilly Smith was acquired for a third round pick, played an average career year (for him), and was traded for a 5th and a 2nd. The Jarry signing isn't aging well, but, at the time, he was the best available FA goaltender, Joonas Korpisalo was 2nd best. Jarry's team wanted a 6 by $6.5M deal, but only got him a 5 by $5.375M deal...which is currently buried in the AHL. Sadly, Jarry's play, over the last five seasons, went from ranking in the top 5-10 to being not even good enough for the NHL. Most likely, they'll buy him out this coming summer because the buyout numbers are better than keeping him, and it's not likely that they'll be able to trade him. According to team insiders, at the beginning of last season, in trying to resign Guentzel, he was offered an 8 by $8M deal and turned it down. Knowing that they couldn't afford to resign Jake, they traded him for a very solid deal, getting Bunting, Ponomarov and Koivunen, as well as a 1st and a 5th in 2024 draft and prospect Cruz Lucius who is playing college hockey for Arizona State.
Have to agree with the other comments I'm afraid. Dubas is doing as best as he can with what he was dealt. We all wish he would do EA Sports NHL types of trades, but this is real life where the other teams actually says no. 😅Definitely agree that the Jarry contract was not the best, but there were also no alternative goalies on the market back then. Just wish it was a shorter or cheaper contract. The EK deal freed up cap space, the Smith story gave us a 2nd round pick for a 3rd round pick, he has accumulated several prospects and our system has jumped 10 spots in the rankings. Considering the mess that was left when he arrived I would definitely give him some more time before dunking on him. The upcoming off-season will be very important. Let's hope it goes his way. Right now I consider him to do a pretty OK job, but we'll see if that turns into bad or great this summer.
I feel like Dubas was bound to get fed to the wolves no matter what. The Penguins were already in some decline since they traded away their entire future to win those back-to-back cups. The fact that they have to rebuild now is kind of just the natural order of things.
When Dubas got the pens job, he was told by their old stars that they want a team to compete for the cup. You cannot blame Dubas for trying to make that happen. They tried, it failed. But they are still in a good position if they want a true rebuild. Crosby, Letang, Malkin, Karlsson, etc.. can bring back a lot of prospects and picks.
Before Dubas became a GM, he was a Senator fan. It really showed in his Toronto days and it’s why he went hard after EK. Don’t be surprised if the Penguins make a pitch for Pageau either at the deadline or in the off season.
It’s amazing how Toronto media pins all the blame of Toronto’s issues on Dubas when Brendan Shanahan was/is in charge. Anything that Dubas did had to be approved by Shanahan so if Dubas did such a poor job, why did Shanahan approve what he was doing? That said, Dubas did make two humongous blunders upon entering the Pittsburgh market. The signing of Jarry and the trade for Karlsson.
As a Pens fan, I can agree with most of that. The Karlsson pick-up was a worse idea than metal underpants... like yeah, let's let our most consistent 30+ goal-scorer and milkshake provider in Jake Guentzel walk while we grab a the softest, most defensively delusional "defenseman" in the league (because Letang wasn't giving the other team enough chances as is, apparently). I love Kris Letang, don't get me wrong- one of the most decorated offensive defenseman in the game, and deadly in the o-zone like CO2 (sometimes for better, sometimes for worse), but he's like the Steve Urkel of the show- you can only afford to have one, or nothing works (and the blooper reel is insane.) Geno is still my man- still floating around a ppg through his late 30s, stacking records, hitting clips and taking names. It just pains me so much to see my righteous captain, Sid the Kid, fight with the might of a young, cupless captain, still aiming to prove himself at the ripe age of 37, while enemy forwards and d-men alike scissor their way past our porous blue-line, again, and again, and again. Amid all the sighs, boos, cheers, moans, and groans, I just hope we can figure this circus out, for Him. Amen /o\ #LGP
Everyone's in the comments talking about the Hextall/Burke duo. But nobody is talking about the butterfly effect of Rutherford's Draft Pick Giveaways? Draft Picks he gave up: (The parenthesis indicate the net change of that round of draft picks, he did get some of those back. A zero would indicate we got back the same amount he gave up.) [ His tenure spans from June 2014 to January 2021 ] - 1st Round Draft Picks : 6 (-6) - 2nd Round Draft Picks : 4 (+1) - 3rd Round Draft Picks : 7 (-2) - 4th Round Draft Picks : 10 (-6) - 5th Round Draft Picks : 3 (+1) - 6th Round Draft Picks : 2 (-2) - 7th Round Draft Picks : 6 (+0) Out of these picks, these were the notable players that COULD have been Penguins: - [F] Mathew Barzal (given up for David Perron.) - [G] Filip Gustavsson (given up for Derrick Brassard.) - [F] Klim Kostin (given up for Ryan Reaves.) - [F] K'Andre Miller (given up for Derick Brassard.) But we did get to keep: - [G] Joel Blomqvist (gave up Matt Murray for this pick.) - [F] Valtteri Puustinen (gave up the draft pick, that picked Jordan Kooy.)
Dubas went from winning cups playing nhl gm mode to somehow becoming an nhl gm. Just goes up to the plate and swings hard at every pitch lol. One day he’ll get it but these were the obvious learning curves lol
Every big swing Dubas took was a disaster. EK, Graves, Jarry. The 4th line is an embarrassment. I feel like Kyle's glasses make him look smarter than he is.
For the Leafs he's famous to buy old and/or expensive guys at the end of the season, so they couldn't really enter to the team and make an expected impact during the playoffs, just to leave to any other team after the first round: ROR, Shane, Foligno and others. Never tried to find a goalie, always stick to the same doubtful defense, lost few key players, was skeptical about new prospects.
I feel like Dubas was expected to make the Pens "win now" to tske advantage of Crosby's last few years while also preparing them for the post-Crosby era. Its pretty hard to do both. I think hes done a good job of improving their future and honestly without some magic and luck they weren't going to win another cup with Crosby anyway
On the one hand, you can't blame Dubas entirely for the situation since the prior management did a number on the Pens to where they barely had any hope. On the other hand, Dubas has made some incredibly baffling decisions in his early tenure with them, so it's possible he isn't suitable for this role regardless. I do wonder if ownership is forcing these moves too, especially since they seem way too attached to Sully.
As many have mentioned, Hextall broke this team. Dubas trading for Karlsson with shedding 3 or 4 bad contracts was a better move but in the end it still doesn’t look great. Everything stemming from the perfectly valid reason to choose Murray over Fleury and on has resulted in plenty of backfires sadly
The fact that Karlsson won the Norris just because of the points he put up on a terrible Sharks team is still a joke. The only reason he was able to put up so many points because San Jose had no expectations and his defensive game was nonexistent. Moved to Pittsburgh with expectations of playoffs and he's a negative factor.
My biggest issue with Dubas to this point is his unwillingness to fire Mike Sullivan. Sullivan coaches to a speed game and seemingly can't adjust to anything else. His team is slow now but still should be better than it is. As far Karlsson, I'm still divided. Pens had a bunch of trash contracts left over from Ron Hextall that Dubas was able to shed to in the process of getting Karlsson. No, it didn't seem to make the team better. But those players were so bad, it was maddening to watch them. At least Karlsson has produced some moments.
The Karlsson trade was a great move, they moved on from some players that were negatively impacting the team, I think if they could've gotten SJ to retain more of his cap hit then it wouldn't be seen as poorly. But the penguins did need some offensive help from defenseman seeing as other than Letang, the next best was putting up ~28 points which hurts more when the bottom 6 is absent.
It's hard to know how much of this is on Dubas without knowing the mandate from ownership. Maybe Dubas was told to go all in for another few seasons and wasn't allowed to tear it down and rebuild.
I’m sorry, Dubas is not the problem. It’s been ownership, coaching, age, and the disaster we’ve been recovering from that was Ron Hextall and the end stage of Jim Rutherford. You got the Guentzel deal wrong too btw, it was Jake for Bunting, Cruz Lucius, Ponomarev, Ville Koivinen, and the 2nd that became Brunicke who looks like he could make the team next year along with the 5th. It was supposed to be a 1st had the Canes made the Cul final. He went for quantity that could help and not solely a first round pick. Also The EK deal, despite the efforts of Karlsson, was a smart move because we dumped a lot of bad contracts. Only thing I would regret trading would be the 1st. And Jake forced that trade, he turned down four different contracts forcing the trade to happen. He’s fixed out prospect pool, started acquiring picks when we used to trade them all away, and he’s wanting to bring in young guys like Tomasino to help move forward with making the team younger. Mike Sullivan is key problem too that everyone seems to have forgotten. He doesn’t fit the Pens anymore but ownership loves him so Dubas can’t get rid of him. Has it been perfect, no, especially with the Graves and Jarry contracts. But again look at the goaltenders available that offseason. We were pretty limited.
(As everyone's pointing out) Dubas was thrown into the worst case scenario to fix hextals dumpster fire, Jarry and Graves signings only seem bad NOW, Karlsson and Smith trades weren't that bad, fired PP Coach Reirden -> Hired David Quinn -> (correct me if I'm wrong) PP now is top 5 in the league, Guentzel trade gave us 2 solid prospects (Ponomarev, Koivunen) and 2nd round pick, Signed a lot of one year deals during free agenzy (might get traded at TDL) Tomasino was fleeced from nashville, Glass, Lizotte really solid signings Pickering settling well Blomqvist fits excellently in the NHL And in general: Very Good Drafting -> the best prospect pool Pittsburgh has had in years, even though Dubas and Pens wants to succeed during regular season we're well on our way to a rebuild, as everyone's pointing out rebuilding may take years and we're on a very solid ground.
I think he probably said "sure, I'll keep your core and add to it" and he's letting it play out as badly as he knew it would. In an ideal world, Sid and Geno would be okay with starting the tank a couple years ago and taking younger players under their tutelage, but the instructions are to "win now"
Big Fan Eck. Keep the content coming. I cant expect you to know every detail in the Penguins universe. Getting out of Granlund and Petry for a 1st and getting Karlsson was great. Jarry deal has been awful but only other option really was Korpisalo. Graves has been a big turd. Definitely expectinf better from Dubas but Hextall really gave him nothing.
There is a world where you both have the same opinion and are just voicing it differently. Dubas really hasn’t lifted the Penguins to a level where they are anymore of a contender than they were the difference is you realize that this isn’t an overnight thing where as Eck knows how much power and autonomy he has and could drastically change things. Only thing that clears that up is how much overhead decisions are dictating Dubas and not letting him change the team to drastically
I get how fans have high expectations for a Stanley Cup, like when Dubas was in Toronto, but the chance of winning a Cup are really small: 1/32. Make the playoffs, 1/16. Terrible odds when parity is so high.
I mean, Dubas isn’t crushing it, but he was given a tough scope of work with the pieces he has been handed from Hextall and Burke. FSG, notably Kevin Acklin, wants the Penguins to have a competitive window while the core is there. They don’t believe that a full scale rebuild is necessary since the salary floor is so close to the cap (20% differential), and even if they did believe in a rebuild, dubas was left with almost no NHL Caliber prospects (Pickering, Blomqvist, St. Ivany is a stretch but he was acquired by hextall). We only had like 2 first round picks since our last cup before Dubas came in, and one of them is doomed to the AHL (poulin). Replenishing the prospect pool with the Guentzel trade was a good move, but we should have tried to resign him with the $3.1M we took in from Jeff Carter retiring, plus the extra $6M we had on July 1. At least Koivunen, Ponomarev, Brunicke, and Lucius all look semi-promising… Weeks into Dubas’s hiring, he had free agency… and I don’t think he fully thought the Jarry signing through, nor the graves signing… those are genuine errors on his part, but one thing we didn’t get from hextall was any accountability from mistakes, and dubas’s recent press conference (re: Jarry’s demotion), backs the idea that he’s not afraid to admit defeat and admit it early. The Karlsson trade really helped us get Jeff Petry, Jan Rutta, and Mikael Granlund off of our books, and we actually saved money on the deal. Good on granlund for killing it in San Jose, but his style did not mesh with Coach Sullivan’s system AT ALL. I think the Penguins will be on the playoff bubble again and might not make it, but at least with Dubas, we have more pieces to come up next year (our AHL team is 3rd in pts percentage and our goalies are seeing beach balls). He’s not doing an awesome job, and I can see how national media doesn’t have the best pulse on how Dubas has run the operation, but I think he’s got us in a better direction than Hextall and Burke. The trade deadline will give me a better chance to evaluate how well he is doing, especially with trying to move Jarry and Graves.
Friendly reminder: Dubas was hired as President of Hockey Ops, and is filling the GM role “until one is hired.” The AGM, Jason Spezza, has done a really good job with the baby pens. It wouldn’t shock me to see Spezza come up to the GM role in 1-2 years and manage the big club, with Dubas exclusively being in an advisory role.
Dubas is doing the best with what he has, which overall isn’t much in the wake of the Hextall/Burke situation. Dubas I think finds himself in this awkward place of having to continue to maintain a competitive team while the Big 3 (87, 71, & 58) are still around and preparing for the future with draft picks and prospects which were all but depleted by the previous management team.
In comparison to the absolute massacre Hextall did to the pens, Dubas is actually doing god's work. He was given a team of effectively ahl caliber players carried by Crosby and the boys and he's been told "figure it out". Guentzel was more than likely not staying so the return they got all things consider is fine. Karlsson's decline sucks but this was something that was largely expected, even so you can argue thats still an L, sure. So far thats it, tho. Hextall arguably doesnt even have a strictly positive move he did at pittsburgh. I say let him cook and then we can talk about it in 2 years After all, Toronto also gave him plenty of time to cook, arguably too much, but today they have an actually competent regular season team
Agree with most of the comments here, but I also think the Karlsson deal was amazing at the time. All of our bad players for one good (not amazing) player. The cap hit sucks, but getting rid of those other players to create space for younger guys with lower cap hits feels like a good move to me. It was as much a player dump as anything.
i'll give Dubas some credit for his salary cap manurers and making deals with other GMs that at the time seem odd but then down the road he makes moves that you didn't think were even possible. the Leafs roster was good on paper a couple seasons ago he just couldn't pull the trigger on a coaching change, as a GM in the OHL, for the Marlies and the Leafs he always had Kiefe or Keef? as a head coach.
Karlsson is a top offensive D when he's alone with the team... With Letang in the team, he's not the only option. When SJ moved Burns, his stats exploded... in OTT, he was alone too... Real bad move from Dubas...
It's true. It's lost to history now, I guess, but the Penguins cap hit actually went *down* after the Karlsson trade. That's how many bad contracts he moved out with it.
Funny to hear a Rangers fan try to trash Dubas who has done the best job out of the past few GMs from Hextall to everything Rutherford did after 2017, even Shero who sold the farm and never even got a cup out of it.
It all began when gmjr traded away 8 years worth of firsts leaving pens with no future prospects. Hextall just put the finishing touches on it. Who trades for and then re-signs old man carter? Not much dubas can do after the mess.
Pens fan here. Has Dubas been perfect? No, but he's one of the few members of the organization myself and most Pens fans I've seen aren't mad at. Dubas inherited and absolute nightmare from Ron Hextall (When you have fans chanting for the GM to be fired you know he's really bad). No prospect pool, no draft capital, a roster whose average age was I believe 31 at the time, and a HC coach who is clearly past his prime with the team but ownership won't let him go (I love Sully but you can tell he's been in the same room too long). To top it all of, Dubas was left with really only two bad options for how he wanted to direct the team. Either tank and waste Crosby, Malkin, and Letang's last years or sell of the team's future for what probably would have been a second round exit at best. Do I wish the team would have been a bit more committed to one of the two options, either an all out tank or final push? Of course, but given the Pens have missed the playoffs by a combined 4 points the last two seasons, it seems like Dubas' middle of the road approach was a worthwhile experiment. It's clear now the team is going to sell at the deadline, which is the right call. Trading off Guentzel last year, waiving Jarry, and probably trading Karlsson. He's was given an impossible situation. He didn't handle it perfectly, but he at least kept them respectable. Give him some time and see what he can do with a rebuild.
It's another one of those stories of a team trying to hold onto the glory days for way too long. They never went into a rebuild, barely retooled. Shed their prospects and prime players for older veterans with little return for the rentals. Now the real mystery is Buffalose. How is that worthless team still around?
Not a good take here. Dubas 1st year was questionable with some of the signings, but I don’t even blame him the position they’re in. He came in when Hextall butchered this team to the bare bone and with no prospects in their system Dubas had 0 farm and can’t even give up draft picks for big trades and the point for the EK trade was to limit Letangs ice time given his past health complications plus they took off bad contracts and made more money off that trade. For the Guentzel trade you aren’t getting much out of a rental, and Tbf we got Brunkie with Carolina’s who was elite for us in the pre season, plus Vile has been lighting it up in the AHL. Dubas rebuilt our entire A team into contenders in 1 season and as a Penguins fan, their window perished the moment Hextall got rid of McCann, Tanev, signed Kapanen over Rodriguez, and traded Marino and Matheson.
Significant miss for an otherwise good channel: citing the Guentzel, Jarry, and Karlsson moves as bad decisions while not highlighting the Graves deal as actually an error shows a lack of understanding. Hopefully next video is back up to par
im ngl... dubas is not a miracle worker , i think people talk about him as if he was supposed to magically fix EVERYTHING , yes he made mistakes but he gets a LOT of hate when i dont really know how he was supposed to fix it on his own - again , i dont agree with everything hes done but he kinda came in to the biggest nightmare that was probably a little too much for him to actually address all at once
I'm a Leafs fan who's neutral on Dubas. I don't hate him but I was ok with him leaving Toronto because of the lack of results. My frustration with the organization was (is) still directed at Shanahan, the only guy during the Leafs failures who's never been held accountable. Anyway, blaming Dubas for the Penguins situation is ridiculous. He was basically told told by owners and management NOT to start the rebuild and keep a team that's "fairly respectable" while Crosby was still there. Sure, he's made some bad trades working from a position of weakness but name one GM who hasn't even when they've held all the cards. Again, I'm not a Dubas supporter but I don't get all the hate for him. I suppose people want scapegoats but they're looking at the wrong guy. You have to go one GM prior for that.
Gosh all these people blaming the previous management. Honestly, has anybody accomplished so little while continuing to be praised and promoted as dubas?
Dubas inherited a mess but some of his moves haven’t been great either…. But he’s got time, see what happens. As a TO fan I can tell you one thing about Dubas: he loves his “guys”, just a bit too much that it can limit other players opportunities and doesn’t help with trades.
love you eck but this is a bad take. dubas has been cooking, but makes mistake. every gm does, it's just high lighted because it's dubas. also, as a pens fan, i'm happy with the guentzel trade, guentzel wanted out, and everyone knew. for the little leverage dubas had, he got decent return. particularly, the second turned into tanner howe, who's lighting up the whl and almost made the roster this year as an 18 y.o. also, the reilly smith trade was fantastic, getting him for a third. for what he was, that was a finesse. sure, he didn't pan out, but how is that on dubas? overall, he's been a good gm, struggling with the difficulty of an aging group with poor contracts signed by the previous gm
You have to be a disaster to rebuild, which is what they should have done when Dubas got to Pittsburgh, but they couldn’t, because Crosby is Crosby, it’s hard to admit you need to rebuild when Crosby always seems to give you a chance. I think that Toronto is a disaster no matter who is in charge. It’s an absolutely toxic work environment, the culture of Toronto will prevent it success because if a GM doesn’t come in there and win 6 Stanley Cups in 3 years they’re seen as a failure. So anyone who was ever in Toronto is often seen as a failure. That said, Pittsburgh will show what Dubas is really capable of. He’s made some questionable deals and some bad ones, but so did Jim Rutherford when he started with the Penguins as GM, but it was what he did with those mistakes to correct them that won 2 Cups. I’m not ready to say Dubas is awful, but the trajectory isn’t looking good, but I’m waiting to see what he does at this year’s trade deadline and into free agency this summer
Dogsh!t take.Firstly, the Penguins missed the playoffs _with_ Guentzel on a favorable contract. Giving him what Tampa did would've been a big mistake. Secondly, Dubas didn't *sign* Karlsson, he traded for him. Traded mostly trash, too. He hasn't been what he was for the Sharks, but that's leads to the real problem: Mike Sullivan. The Graves deal seemed good at the time, but he's been terrible. It sucks, but things like that happen sometimes. The Jarry deal... Sullivan lobbied to keep Jarry in Pittsburgh. Sure, Dubas didn't have to listen. But he trusted Sullivan's judgement, and that turned out to be a terrible thing to do. And that's the biggest problem to me: the Penguins as an organization have unconditional and total faith in Sullivan. There's a lot of speculation about why that is. But in my opinion, just like Bylsma, he was the right guy at the right time, in '16 & '17. But the wheels fell off a long time ago, but people are still behaving like he's the best coach in the league. He's not. Not even close.
Rage bait for clicks from your Toronto audience, clearly from they response in the comments anyone that knows anything about hockey knows the penguins being where they are now is not because of Dubas
I get why people defend Dubas's firing from the Leafs, but from what I've seen he's just not a good coach. He did nothing with the Leafs, and he's been absolutely miserable with the Pens
1. It was stated multiple times Dubas was looking for nearly NHL ready prospects for Guentzel instead of draft capital (of which the Pens got three) 2. As many mention below, Dubas inherited probably the muddiest situation in the NHL from Hextall. 3. Karlsson probably isn't a fantastic trade, but Letang is over the hill at this point, so I'm almost fine with it tbh 4. Dubas did fuck up free agency with Smith, Graves, Jarry, etc.
just gonna leave out the 3 prospects in the Guentzel trade of which 2 are doing great in the AHL rn as well as the fact that Reilly Smith was successfully flipped for better picks then he paid for him.
Regardless of the obvious BS he inherited, there is some merit to questioning what he's done so far. But I actually think his moves have more to do with what he perceived his mistakes to be in Toronto, and the fact that he basically was put into the same spot that he left: an overhyped and immovable "core four" that he needed to work around. Karlsson had just come off a 100 point season, so even if he dipped a bit, you'd expect more from him. But having Letang and Karlsson just makes no sense. Dynas can make some impressive moves with very little space, but he can't float a sinking ship.
Penguins should have had the fire sale 5yrs ago and had they done this, they wouldn't be wasting the twilight of sid/malkin/letang...so goofy. all they had to do for 3yrs was sign free agents to 1yr contracts, play them on sid or gino's line to pump em up and then dump them at the deadline for picks. while doing this, you trade picks or whatever to snipe early mid 20s players who have put teams in a bind/ cap casualties and just let the machine work. like christ, its not rocket science.
I have to disagree. Things are trending in the right direction. The Jarry contract was the only option at the time. Graves was definitely a miss. But this running rebuild is going well. Cupboards aren't bare anymore. I predict now they bounced Jarry they'll make the playoffs.
These guys repeat things like parrots in these repeat fake lazy hockey videos. Who cares if the Pens didn't get a 1st round pick because they drafted Harrison Brunicke in the 2nd round with the pick they got from the Canes which was the Flyers. You and Frank Hairavalli need to emphasize the player Harrison Brunicke and de-emphasize the "1st round pick" as if they lost out on a player not attained. Rakell has 23 goals on Crosby's left wing and make $5AAV. Guentzel has 23 goals and makes $9AAV. Last season Bunting had 19 points in 21 games and rejuvenated Geno. Bunting leads the team this season with 8 power play goals and is 3rd on the team with 13 goals. This season the Pens have the 5th best power play at 27.1%. Last season the Pens had the 30th power play at 15.3%. Dubas traded for Bunting and hired coach Quinn. Now you randomly diss Erik Karlsson and his contract and call him a poor defender when he is know for offense. EK65 is 9th in the league among dmen with 28 assists and 10th in points with 32 points. Erik Karlsson is 1st on the Pens among dmen with 32 points. Grzelcyk is 2nd with 25 points including 24 assists. Letang has fallen off a cliff and only has 18 points. Maybe you should mention EK65's importance and compare him to Letang and his peers before disrespecting him.
Not intending to imply that Dubas is solely responsible for the penguins, just highlighting some of his moves. Feedback noted re prior management.
Basically Eck, taking a crap in a library book and returning it is better than whatever Ron Hextall was.
The pens have been a dumpster fire for a while, hes not hte problem. Aging team is aging.
Bro, come on. Don't.
You know the facts.
You've stated them.
You know Dubas has been horrible as a GM and basically a freaking fraud (he knows people, that's it).
The excuses after excuses people keep giving that guy, it's insane.
This level of coping mechanism and confirmation bias, flying in the face of YEARS of horrible management (every facets of his job description he sucked at), against all facts, is cult behavior.
Rob said it and demonstrated it more than a year ago, BEFORE most of his horrible moves in Pit : he's a fraud.
Would ANYONE who has any kind of a freaking profession, hire this guy to negotiate anything? Like, oh, I don't know, employees' contracts in a business of any size? To MANAGE (yes the "M" in GM is about managing I believe) anything?
Finally, again for those who work for a living and have any level of work ethic and integrity, WHEN should he take responsibility then?
I get it Eck, you definitely do not want to deal with BS from fanatics arboring a cult of personality for a guy who turns everything he's involved in into a laughing stock. Especially not while the NHL is destroying your channel.
It's understandable. But you SPECIFICALLY talked about horrible moves that DUBAS made. Was he forced to make an old team even older? Was he forced to pick the worst contract in the market to fill a position that was filled already? Was he forced to screw the cap EVEN MORE than it already was WHILE making the team worst? Was he forced to trade a superstar for NOTHING? Was he forced to accept the job if the situation was so hopeless to begin with?
You never implied that the team had been well managed before he got there, you pointed out, specifically, what DUBAS did about it.
If this is how people decline to take responsibility in their own life for their own failures, then maybe, just maybe, the comments that forced you to post this are PROJECTING like it's going out of style.
I'm just going to end this with the following (since nobody who's currently debasing themselves against all logic and reason anyway) :
IF Dubas had managed to turn the Pens around, would he be credited for that success or not?
OF COURSE HE WOULD, even with his horrible previous job with the Leafs. I would applaud him. But if it's ALWAYS the fault of others according to his rabbid cult members, you CANNOT have it both ways; but let's be real, they still would applaud him, because poor Dubas is a tragic victim - fully responsible for anything good he does, never responsible for anything in the looooooooong list of horrible decisions he's made.
It's like a religion I swear. I know life in Toronto is disgusting. Believe me, I KNOW. So then why make everything even worst by letting a proven incompetent douche put all of you in that sort of Stockholm Syndrome, that state of useless denial?
LET. IT. GO.
Thanks for the vid Eck, looking forward to your next SW vid.
I just hope you don't let yourself be bullied by fallacies, by things you never mentioned or implied in this video. If you have a moment, go rewatch Rob's old vid on this subject. You don't deserve BS from stating facts.
Take care.
No one's perfect and everyone is entitled to their opinions, but a guy who knows hockey like you should definitely know to look beyond the surface to truly understand what's happened with the Penguins and Dubas' role in that. Dubas is far from perfect as well but most hockey people know he is not the main reason, let alone the only one, for Pittsburg's problems. If you just wanted to hate on Dubas then just make a video about it and don't make it about running the Penguins into the ground.
@@hottuna2006 Thankfully Eck never said that Dubas was "the main reason" or that he's the "only one" at fault for "Pittsburg's problems."
He specifically mentioned moves and trades that Dubas did, himself, like a big boy. And big boys, when they get hired to help fix a problem and only makes it worse in almost comical ways, they take responsibility.
So, aside your own projection about stuff that was never said in his video, what the issue again?
You cultists need to LET. IT. GO. Dubas has been hired by two vastly different teams to MANAGE, and he was, and has been, very bad at it. How many more years of being a bad GM, how many cities must he make a laughing stock off, before this freaking charade stops once and for all?
This is so strange bro. So strange.
It's not (entirely) Dubas' fault. Hextall was legitimately one of the worst GMs of all time, and Dubas was given instructions that he had to keep the core together and attempt to remain competitive.
Sure, but he found a way to make it worse...
He was allegedly trying to break up the core in Toronto, allegedly, Shanahan said no then fired him. Why would he go to a team that wasn't going to allow him to break up an aging core?
@@matthewthomas1929money, job title, 5 year contract. Damn what reason could he have had?
@@richkamminga4283Hence why specified entirely. Bringing in Karlsson isn't looking like the savvyest move in retrospect, but I'd hardly call it disastrous considering that Granlund needed to get out of Pittsburgh.
Dubas walked into a disaster created by Hextall and Burke. There is nothing he could do to make a contender out of what they left him.
Yes there is to rebuild and then make a contender out of it
No one made him take on Karlsson.
I mean he helped construct a team that went past the first round in...what, 15 years?
It’s still fair to say he’s done nothing to help that disaster.
He walked into a house fire and made a grease fire.
@@LoganSaunders-n8c yep, also, for the toronto aspect, shanahan has been there alot longer then dubas, do you not put the blame a little on him as well. ultimately, do you ask who's decision it's been to keep there top 4 players, being paid mostly double digits?
Don't ignore how bad Hextall screwed them. Dubas was hired by FSG to basically rebuild the entire Pens organization & they gave him (at minimum) a 5 year guaranteed deal bc these things take time. Let him cook.
Let him cook? Lmao. Look at the moves in Toronto. Yes, some were stellar, many were horrible.
We’ll probably just miss the playoffs and in return not get near a decent pick in this draft. Ya he’s going to have to “cook”.
did hextall screw the organization? yes. did dubas make it worse by trading for karlsson and signing players like jarry and graves to exorbitant deals? also yes.
@@theniskycap8612 Jarry was a mistake, but the Karlsson move was not a mistake. He got a great player and also got rid of Granlund, Petry, Rutta, and Desmith, who nobody would actually trade for unless they were in a package deal. Yes, the cap hit is big but he got rid of so many bad Hextall contracts that he damn near saved money by bringing EK in
Yeah he had that in Toronto too..... Trading for Karlson great start to a rebuild....
I'm sorry but this is just incorrect. Dubas walked into the absolute dumpster fire that was left by Hextall and had to try to pick up the pieces. Has Dubas made some questionable moves? Yes. Was he the one that protected Jeff goddamn Carter over Brandon Tanev in the Seattle Expansion draft? or took on Granlund's awful contract? or traded Jared McCann to Toronto? or Traded John Marino and Mike Matheson for nothing? This all comes back to Hextall, Dubas is just trying to pick up the pieces and build for the future
He had 30 mil of cap space in his first offseason (2023) and every move he made has been objectively awful. Jarry on waivers, Graves, EK65 trade, etc
@parkerodonoghue6057 The EK65 trade was brilliant, what do you mean? He gave up 1 1st round pick and unloaded about 6 or 7 bad contracts to get a defenseman who had just won the Norris trophy. He got rid of Rutta, Petry, Granlund, and Desmith, all who were overpayed by Hextall
@@parkerodonoghue6057if Graves had played the way he was in NJ, it would have been worth it. He had no way of knowing he would regress, that's ridiculous to put that on him
It’s not ridiculous; he made the move, not Graves.
Build by extending Jarry and trading for Karllson.
The pieces that could have kept us competitive in Jared McCann, Teddy Blueger, John Marino, Mike Matheson were all traded away for nothing. Brandon Tanev was left unprotected in order to keep Jeff Carter along with letting Freddy Gaudreau and Evan Rodriguez walk. Jan Rutta, Jeff Petry, Mikael Grandlund, Brock McGinn being the big names landed during the Hextall era. These are the moves that have us as a struggling franchise. Yes Graves and Jarry have proven to be bad contracts but not really sure what Dubas was supposed to do when Hextall pissed away all our talent and value.
He traded away a lot of depth pieces that would’ve given the Pens a shot at the playoffs. He never intended to get the Pens back to contending, wait and see the 5 year rebuild where they miss the playoffs and Sid retires.
Lifelong Pens fan here. Hextall FUCKED the franchise horrifically. Dubas is doing what he can. Jarry was the only real option for goaltending at free agency, the signing of EK is still a net positive because it cleared the team of a lot of real slop from the Hextall era, and Guentzel was gone regardless so you gotta take what you can get. The team is fucked in the short term, but Dubas is doing what little is possible to keep the team okay for the end of the core's careers.
No Offense Eck, but pretty rough take here on both ends. The Penguins have been on a downwards trajectory for years - it's clear they're stuck in the not terrible and not great phase, just mediocre. And they don't want to move on to rebuilding yet because of Crosby's shining legacy. Waiting for him to retire. As for Dubas and the Toronto fiasco - it was mostly on the team and Sheldon Keefe. Soft players and softer coach. Year after year of getting run over in the first round of the playoffs - zero accountability by anyone on the ice or behind the bench. Incredibly strange video for you to post - blaming one man for the failures of two organizations that had issues on so many deeper levels.
I agree on some things. I don't blame him primarily for the Leafs failures. Jarry signing is bad, but hindsight is 20/20. I will say, I was a skeptic of the EK trade at the time
edit: after reading up on it a bit more, EK trade wasn't even bad really. I don't think he's what they needed, but they got rid of bad contracts (which should at least even it out, even with EK not scoring at the same pace) and actually ended up with more cap space
I agree with you. Hot take: I think Dubas has done an incredible job in Pittsburgh. They have a few minor league and younger players people are actually paying attention to for the first time in almost a decade. They still have draft picks. Jarry's deal? He was literally the best goalie available in that offseason. There was talk about him being on Team Canada as their goalie if he could stay healthy. Was there questions about his injuries and consistency? Yes. Probably why his contract was only for $5.3mil/year. What GM wouldn't have made that deal? The Graves deal? He had 26 points and a +34 the previous year playing almost 20 minutes per game on the Devils, playing on one of the best defensive teams in the leagues that year. So Dubas signed a 6'5" 27 year old defenseman for $4.5mil/year. That was a bad deal? The Karlsson deal was literally all of our bad players and contracts for the reigning Norris trophy winner. And it SAVED the Pens cap space. That wasn't a bad deal... that was a miracle. When everyone was saying he was awful and not contributing, they clearly weren't going to the games and seeing him play. He led the NHL in defensive zone breakouts. He regularly leads in possession numbers.
The biggest problem with this team? Mike Sullivan. His system is tired and non-dynamic. Most of the time, the Pens don't even look like they are trying to score. They have skill levels from Crosby down to guys like Nieto, but Sully insists everyone play the same style. It's ridiculous. The Pens last year were 28th in the league in points off the rush. They don't even try to score that way. Do they try to get Karlsson involved in the offense? Nope. Letang? Nope again... they've been having Matt Frickin Grzelcyk on the top power play unit. That is insane. He should be fired just for that!
Dubas signed Graves and Jarry and failed to re-sign Evan Rodrigues. Those were mistakes. He also signed Phil Tomasino and Alex Nedeljkovic, which were decidedly not mistakes. Dubas is doing the best he can with what he has left to work with after Hextall's gutting (Jared McCann and Brandon Tanev especially) of the organization.
Edit: Maybe if Dubas hadn't signed Jarry and Graves there would have been cap space to re-sign Jake but he was due a big raise after the production he brought to the Pens. At least Michael Bunting has been a bright spot so far.
Evan Rodriguez was a disaster his last season in Pittsburgh.
@@bradjones9784 Disagree. He had a short handed goal against the Rangers during the playoffs that season and I believe if they would have beat the Rangers in Game 7 he would have been huge in any subsequent series. He's proved in Florida that he's a playoff performer.
Rodrigues wasn't coming back because he was in Sullivan's doghouse. That's the real problem: the Penguins' absolute, unconditional loyalty to Sullivan.
@@MorphBallMedia I hate that you're right. If the team was composed of clones of Bryan Rust I think it would be Sully's perfect lineup.
@neithermanc1
Well, first of all, Dubas never had Rodriguez to re-sign because he left the Penguins the summer before Hextall was fire. There were reports that he turned down a 3 year deal from Hextall because his agent thought he could get better in FA. He was wrong.
I also think you should go back and watch that Rangers series again. You forgot the turning point in game 6 when he took the absolutely stupid penalty with the game and series under the Pens control. It was the tipping point. The Rangers scored less than 10 seconds into the pp. If he doesnt retaliate, the Penguins likely win the series. He also had multiple defensive lapses in game 5 and looked terrible.
Everyone is remembering him with rose colored glasses , ow but he skated almost that entire year on the first line with top pp minutes and only had 49 points and 19 goals. He was a below average player to the Penguins.
I don't agree with this take, Eck. Dubas put on a hazmat suit and a fireproof vest and was handed a dumpster fire of a team that was run into the ground by the previous regime. He was bound to get burned in this situation even with the amount of protection he put on.
Yeah, bad take here, Eck, apologies. Hextall and Burke screwed the Penguins beyond belief. Dubas was hired to basically rebuild the Penguins in a near-impossible situation, and they guaranteed him a minimum five year deal due to how disastrous it truly was over there. Penguins suck, sure, but no one can remedy the dumpster fire that was created before he arrived. Dubas surely has made some questionable decisions, but he was attempting to prolong the core three's careers in Pittsburgh as long as possible. I'm sure we'll see a fire sale come deadline time. The criticism for Dubas is ridiculous, he's working with what he's been given, which is essentially nothing. We'll have to wait a few more years to figure out if the Penguins can be fixed. Cheers.
He was hired to rebuild? Then why did he try to retool? Those are two completely different things. If it was so obvious to you they needed a rebuild why didn't Dubas see it?Dubas made the wrong decision immediately, Dubas poured water on a grease fire, it's definitely not all on Burke and Hextall,
Yeah no it's not a bad take. Dubas was the GM of the Leafs for 5 years or however long it was.....that team was STACKED and he did bad things with that team aswell.
Hell he couldn't even build a team capable of getting out of the first round......yet you expect him to save your franchise?
@@matthewthomas1929 Dubas definitely stepped into a challenging situation, but so did Hextall and Burke. They inherited a mess from Rutherford (aging cap team with little in terms of prospects and picks). Yes, they did some things to make it worse, but so has Dubas. Likely just as many if not more. He didn't rebuild anything, he doubled down with that insane Karlsson trade that certainly wasn't needed (he wanted him in TOR as well, but was vetoed by Shanahan, which is why Dubas wanted more autonomy in his next role). There may also be some direction from ownership as well. I don't think they wanted to move on from anyone in the core group, which is what was needed if you are doing a rebuild.
The problem is that prolonging was not a wise course of action, if anything not committing to a rebuild is stalking the core 3’s career. He promised monorail, that being them getting back to contention, instead the team is wrecked again.
@ this. It was wrong to prolong. He should have just rebuilt instead of attempting to retool, it's not working and won't work. But, getting the situation in Pittsburgh remedied both now and when Dubas first came is not an easy task. Crosby, Malkin and Letang are the heart and soul of that organization, the players that drive fans. Getting rid of them is basically the sign that they'll be in a full-on rebuild. However, doing what he's doing isn't helping anymore, if it ever did. Need change. Cheers.
Boo. Dubas got handed a dumpster fire after hextall. The fact that we are even still a wildcard contender is crazy. Sure the Jarry deal is bad but at the time it made sense. A rising star goalie for $5m? Yes please!
TJ numbers were not good when this was signed.
I love how Dubas gets sympathy now, yet you same people hated on him in Toronto.
Normally I agree with your commentary, but this is just wrong for the most part. They traded a third round pick for Reilly Smith, he was mediocre, then they flipped him for a second. That's a win any way you cut it. Serivalli's article is full of mistakes like that, using him as a source is questionable at best. The Karlsson trade got them out of multiple really bad contracts as well- they *gained* cap space from that trade. He hasn't been amazing, but looking at point totals alone is pretty lazy analysis. And entirely ignoring the disaster that was the Hextall era is also a strange decision to make, considering how many of these problems started before Dubas ever got here. Just overall I don't think you did a good job actually evaluating what's happening with the team. Seems like a thin excuse to dunk on Dubas, tbh.
Agreed lol, also Dubas has been accumulating picks like crazy and got lots of prospects from the Guentzel trade that have been working out pretty well in WBS so far. Everyone seems to forget that the Karlsson trade helped the team get rid of awful contracts and that the year he signed Jarry there were no better options on the market. Yeah, not all of his decisions have worked out but I've seen more people from the leafs media and fans criticize him than actual Pens fans. Don't agree with this take at all.
He also failed to mention the 3 prospects they got from the Guentzal trade which were the primary pieces. Incredibly lazy and Dubas actively wasn’t trying to win this year, it’s all about collecting future assets (ie the Hayes and Glass deal and signing UFAs to one-year deals to flip at the TDL). This offseason will be a critical one to show if they’re committed to tear everything down or aim for a soft landing and use their cap space to get better.
@@aislingry I do know some pens fans, and they do seem ok with Dubas. As a Leafs fan myself, I actually liked Dubas, and still do
@@chillsavage everyone talking about dubas right now is failing to mention the prospects, the trade is still semi underwhelming as Lucius and ponomarev dont really do much for me, but Koivunen is playing well in the AHL as well as Brunicke seems to be a steal from the 2nd round pick. Pretty annoying seeing all these people just ignore things like the prospect pool and the mess he was left which.
@ their system has jumped 10 spots in the Athletics rankings since he took over. There is finally some NHL-caliber talent in the system. The roster he took over had two players under 25, fundamentally don’t understand what others expected him to do in the time he’s had thus far.
It’s good to see the fans defending Dubas against content creators like Eck, SDP and Spittin Chiclets for their horrible takes. Anyone can see that Hextall and Burke gutted the Pens Organization like a fish and Dubas was given a task by Fenway Sports to try and fix this team into a contender while Crosby is still around
Dubas is a fraud. He never intended to win with Crosby and he won’t. Penguins won’t make the playoffs as long as Dubas is there.
Dubas fucked up with the Graves and Jarry signings, but other than that has been pretty good.
And the Jarry contract, Sullivan deserves a good deal of the blame on that. Sullivan campaigned to keep Jarry around when Dubas walked in the door.
Overpaid Karlsson.
@@SticksAndTape Dubas didn't sign Karlsson to any deal. What are you talking about?
@@SticksAndTapeI'm a canes fan who wants the pens to be dogshit, and this is just wrong. The EK trade let you guys dump a ton of horrible contracts in exchange for taking on one, it was absolutely a good move. I also don't think Jarry was that horrible of a deal, it's obviously not a good value for money contract right now but that's a risk you take when signing such an inconsistent position. There's no great way to evaluate goalies, as nobody's ever figured out any stable year-to-year stats for them. Signing goalies is always a risk but the important thing to note is that *not* signing a goalie carries the exact same risk. Graves is a the only bad deal he's made until you start adding enormous amounts of hindsight; he got plenty from Carolina considering he had literally no leverage in a rental move like that.
Very rare Eck L right here, good amount of incorrect info.
A lot of the damage in this team was done by Hextall, signing multiple veterans to long deals with no trade clauses and trading for others with atrocious contracts that did not work well with the team whatsoever (like Jeff Petry and Mikael Granlund).
Dubas traded Granlund, Petry and more for Karlsson, and actually gained cap space in doing so. I don’t think Karlsson has fit well in Pittsburgh, but I’d take him over how piss poor Granlund and Petry played.
They also got three prospects on top of Bunting and the draft picks in exchange for Guentzel. One now has played a few NHL games, another other is on the verge, the third one is in the NCAA.
Remember that Dubas is basically tasked to rebuild the team for the future, while trying to stay competitive while the core three are still playing. And this year, he’s acquired younger players for cheap (Tomasino and Glass), and they’ve both produced to some extent. Tomasino I’d argue has been a steal. And he was able to flip Reilly Smith for an even higher return than when he got him from Vegas.
The only move I’ve disliked since day one is the Jarry deal, we all know how that’s gone. In the end, he inherited a dumpster fire and turned it into just a dumpster.
Dont forget that rakell is basically Guentzel now. They both have the same goals
How did Dubas even get a job? What's his hockey experience? This guy literally just showed up out of nowhere a while back.
As a lifelong Penguins fan, this is all an act of recovery from the short lived Hextall era. I think that the Penguins are doing OKAY this season. Sure, our record doesn't show it but when we have good games, we have a tendency to shine bright. Our lowest point heading into this season was our defense and at the end of December (and especially us versus LA and Buffalo) we were able to be a lot more mindful on the defense and I think Pickering being called up has greatly impacted us for the better. Our main problem is the veteran defensemen and I hate saying it but Letang has just existed on the team. He's had some decent moments but I see Grzelcyk and Pettersson being surprisingly strong for the Pens. Our biggest downfalls on the team currently are us still overpaying for Ryan Graves, Matt Nieto existing on the team, and the whole Goalie fiasco. Nedeljkovic has been solid but it hasn't been like this the whole season as him and Jarry have quite similar stats. The main difference between Ned and Jarry is that one of them is expected to be far better than the other as a Starting goalie. Lizotte is one of my favorite players on the team, I think he just gets bad luck with the puck, Accari is willing to die for the team to ensure a puck doesn't get near the goalie (Hell I'd almost say that Accari should be a defenseman, only thing is that he likes shooting the puck too much), Rakell and Rust keep the team alive, and having Bunting is just a nice additional player for insurance. Dubas' young talents in Cody Glass and Tomasino show great promise in their play and I think that we can absolutely work with them for good depth of the team. We definitely probably won't make the playoffs but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, I'm not sure if that light is a train coming at us or a beautiful sunset but there's something there. Us Pens fans can only hope that his future prospect scouting is as good as it was in Toronto and that his trades coming up actually benefit the team coming down the stretch.
Absolutely not, the Guentzel trade might be one of his best moves. You didn’t list the three other major assets in that deal, the already developing prospects. They got that for 30 games of Guentzel. Also, the second looks like it could be a hit (Harrison Brunicke). Life isn’t always about getting the 25th overall pick back in a trade
Yeah I love how he's like "all the other trades got 1st picks" as if a 2nd, and then ALL the players and assets he got somehow doesn't add up to way more than just a 1st round pick lol. This video was brutal.
As a Pens fan, it’s hard to see the Pens fall apart
The Penguins are a disaster but I just don't see how anyone expected otherwise. Year after year without a first round pick, trading futures for their win now window from 2008-2018. They did pick up 3 cups and now they're bad. That's how the salary cap era works. See Chicago, Detroit, etc.
I think you were talking about the Ryan Graves deal. Everyone besides Crosby, Malkin, Rust, Tomasino, and Pickering are open for the right price
I really don't know if people outside of pittsburgh realize how handicapped Dubas has been by being forced to keep malkin and letang around to keep sid happy. This whole team is structured around SID being happy. The team literally pouted after the guentzel trade which was not working out because of the money he wanted AND the team was playing like crap so either you trade him for something or potentially watch him walk in the off season. The jarry signing was for sure too much and too long but there weren't any great options on the market that off season. Karlsson was suppose to come in after his norris season and fix the powerplay and it unfortunately didn't work out but they didn't lose a ton to get him other than the cap space and his contract expires around the same time as malkin and letang. Smith was a chance on someone who'd just won the cup and he got rid of him as soon as he realized it wasn't working. Maybe ill end up hating him but I don't feel like he's gotten a fair chance at rebuilding this team yet. I also think sullivan would have been out a while ago if he wasn't buddy buddy with fsg.
People who know hockey know. People who hate Dubas for whatever unknown reasons, don't care.
Dubas also known as dufas I wanted him gone sooner he only played hockey till 13 years old 😂
All this shitting on Dubas is so weird seeing as a pens fan. I'm really happy with Dubas so far. EK65 trade was awesome and love to have him on the team. Graves and Jarry were misses but at the time of those decisions it was nothing crazy to me. I don't understand this dogpiling at all and am excited to see what moves comes next.
Sure things look bleak right now but seeing how the prospect pool looks already has gotten me very hopeful for the near and distant future. As much as I rag on Karlsson he did get a lot of bad deals out the door with it. I would rather pay Karlsson 10m a year than all the other little bullshit contracts that we had for passengers.
I think the 4 nations is gonna be a nice reset for a lot of players. After that tourney things will be different
as a tampa fan i miss stammer but guentzal is amazing
I see a lot of people talking about how bad the system was that Dubas was hired to fix because of Hextall's time in Pittsburgh, but they neglect to mention how bad the system was that Hextall inherited. During his time as GM, Jim Rutherford had gutted the Pens minor league systems trying to stay in that "win now" mode.
If you look at the deals that Dubas is given the most grief for, they're not really that bad. Reilly Smith was acquired for a third round pick, played an average career year (for him), and was traded for a 5th and a 2nd.
The Jarry signing isn't aging well, but, at the time, he was the best available FA goaltender, Joonas Korpisalo was 2nd best. Jarry's team wanted a 6 by $6.5M deal, but only got him a 5 by $5.375M deal...which is currently buried in the AHL. Sadly, Jarry's play, over the last five seasons, went from ranking in the top 5-10 to being not even good enough for the NHL. Most likely, they'll buy him out this coming summer because the buyout numbers are better than keeping him, and it's not likely that they'll be able to trade him.
According to team insiders, at the beginning of last season, in trying to resign Guentzel, he was offered an 8 by $8M deal and turned it down. Knowing that they couldn't afford to resign Jake, they traded him for a very solid deal, getting Bunting, Ponomarov and Koivunen, as well as a 1st and a 5th in 2024 draft and prospect Cruz Lucius who is playing college hockey for Arizona State.
Have to agree with the other comments I'm afraid. Dubas is doing as best as he can with what he was dealt. We all wish he would do EA Sports NHL types of trades, but this is real life where the other teams actually says no. 😅Definitely agree that the Jarry contract was not the best, but there were also no alternative goalies on the market back then. Just wish it was a shorter or cheaper contract. The EK deal freed up cap space, the Smith story gave us a 2nd round pick for a 3rd round pick, he has accumulated several prospects and our system has jumped 10 spots in the rankings. Considering the mess that was left when he arrived I would definitely give him some more time before dunking on him. The upcoming off-season will be very important. Let's hope it goes his way. Right now I consider him to do a pretty OK job, but we'll see if that turns into bad or great this summer.
I feel like Dubas was bound to get fed to the wolves no matter what. The Penguins were already in some decline since they traded away their entire future to win those back-to-back cups. The fact that they have to rebuild now is kind of just the natural order of things.
We really dont. Dubas was hired for the penguins future without Crosby.
When Dubas got the pens job, he was told by their old stars that they want a team to compete for the cup. You cannot blame Dubas for trying to make that happen. They tried, it failed. But they are still in a good position if they want a true rebuild. Crosby, Letang, Malkin, Karlsson, etc.. can bring back a lot of prospects and picks.
Before Dubas became a GM, he was a Senator fan. It really showed in his Toronto days and it’s why he went hard after EK.
Don’t be surprised if the Penguins make a pitch for Pageau either at the deadline or in the off season.
It’s amazing how Toronto media pins all the blame of Toronto’s issues on Dubas when Brendan Shanahan was/is in charge. Anything that Dubas did had to be approved by Shanahan so if Dubas did such a poor job, why did Shanahan approve what he was doing?
That said, Dubas did make two humongous blunders upon entering the Pittsburgh market. The signing of Jarry and the trade for Karlsson.
As a Pens fan, I can agree with most of that. The Karlsson pick-up was a worse idea than metal underpants... like yeah, let's let our most consistent 30+ goal-scorer and milkshake provider in Jake Guentzel walk while we grab a the softest, most defensively delusional "defenseman" in the league (because Letang wasn't giving the other team enough chances as is, apparently). I love Kris Letang, don't get me wrong- one of the most decorated offensive defenseman in the game, and deadly in the o-zone like CO2 (sometimes for better, sometimes for worse), but he's like the Steve Urkel of the show- you can only afford to have one, or nothing works (and the blooper reel is insane.) Geno is still my man- still floating around a ppg through his late 30s, stacking records, hitting clips and taking names. It just pains me so much to see my righteous captain, Sid the Kid, fight with the might of a young, cupless captain, still aiming to prove himself at the ripe age of 37, while enemy forwards and d-men alike scissor their way past our porous blue-line, again, and again, and again. Amid all the sighs, boos, cheers, moans, and groans, I just hope we can figure this circus out, for Him. Amen /o\ #LGP
I mean this with respect
Few notes here,
Penguins didn't 'sign' ek65, they acquired him, with salary retention
Everyone's in the comments talking about the Hextall/Burke duo. But nobody is talking about the butterfly effect of Rutherford's Draft Pick Giveaways?
Draft Picks he gave up:
(The parenthesis indicate the net change of that round of draft picks, he did get some of those back. A zero would indicate we got back the same amount he gave up.)
[ His tenure spans from June 2014 to January 2021 ]
- 1st Round Draft Picks : 6 (-6)
- 2nd Round Draft Picks : 4 (+1)
- 3rd Round Draft Picks : 7 (-2)
- 4th Round Draft Picks : 10 (-6)
- 5th Round Draft Picks : 3 (+1)
- 6th Round Draft Picks : 2 (-2)
- 7th Round Draft Picks : 6 (+0)
Out of these picks, these were the notable players that COULD have been Penguins:
- [F] Mathew Barzal (given up for David Perron.)
- [G] Filip Gustavsson (given up for Derrick Brassard.)
- [F] Klim Kostin (given up for Ryan Reaves.)
- [F] K'Andre Miller (given up for Derick Brassard.)
But we did get to keep:
- [G] Joel Blomqvist (gave up Matt Murray for this pick.)
- [F] Valtteri Puustinen (gave up the draft pick, that picked Jordan Kooy.)
Dubas went from winning cups playing nhl gm mode to somehow becoming an nhl gm.
Just goes up to the plate and swings hard at every pitch lol. One day he’ll get it but these were the obvious learning curves lol
Every big swing Dubas took was a disaster. EK, Graves, Jarry. The 4th line is an embarrassment. I feel like Kyle's glasses make him look smarter than he is.
For the Leafs he's famous to buy old and/or expensive guys at the end of the season, so they couldn't really enter to the team and make an expected impact during the playoffs, just to leave to any other team after the first round: ROR, Shane, Foligno and others. Never tried to find a goalie, always stick to the same doubtful defense, lost few key players, was skeptical about new prospects.
Too bad the Leafs were poorly coached in the playoffs.
Dubas hired that coach. A guy who had never coached in the NHL. Dubas is trash.
@@tsak912 Then The Shanaplan decided to keep Keefe for longer than Dubas!
I feel like Dubas was expected to make the Pens "win now" to tske advantage of Crosby's last few years while also preparing them for the post-Crosby era. Its pretty hard to do both.
I think hes done a good job of improving their future and honestly without some magic and luck they weren't going to win another cup with Crosby anyway
On the one hand, you can't blame Dubas entirely for the situation since the prior management did a number on the Pens to where they barely had any hope. On the other hand, Dubas has made some incredibly baffling decisions in his early tenure with them, so it's possible he isn't suitable for this role regardless. I do wonder if ownership is forcing these moves too, especially since they seem way too attached to Sully.
As many have mentioned, Hextall broke this team. Dubas trading for Karlsson with shedding 3 or 4 bad contracts was a better move but in the end it still doesn’t look great. Everything stemming from the perfectly valid reason to choose Murray over Fleury and on has resulted in plenty of backfires sadly
He was hired to rebuild the team but he wasnt allowed to do anything to rebuild the team
Terrible take, for so many reasons. He was left a total disaster, give the guy a chance to rebuild/retool at least.
The fact that Karlsson won the Norris just because of the points he put up on a terrible Sharks team is still a joke.
The only reason he was able to put up so many points because San Jose had no expectations and his defensive game was nonexistent. Moved to Pittsburgh with expectations of playoffs and he's a negative factor.
My biggest issue with Dubas to this point is his unwillingness to fire Mike Sullivan. Sullivan coaches to a speed game and seemingly can't adjust to anything else. His team is slow now but still should be better than it is. As far Karlsson, I'm still divided. Pens had a bunch of trash contracts left over from Ron Hextall that Dubas was able to shed to in the process of getting Karlsson. No, it didn't seem to make the team better. But those players were so bad, it was maddening to watch them. At least Karlsson has produced some moments.
The Karlsson trade was a great move, they moved on from some players that were negatively impacting the team, I think if they could've gotten SJ to retain more of his cap hit then it wouldn't be seen as poorly. But the penguins did need some offensive help from defenseman seeing as other than Letang, the next best was putting up ~28 points which hurts more when the bottom 6 is absent.
All of Dubas moves were high risk high reward, we (as pens fans) were hoping at least ONE or them would pan out but none are.
It's hard to know how much of this is on Dubas without knowing the mandate from ownership. Maybe Dubas was told to go all in for another few seasons and wasn't allowed to tear it down and rebuild.
I was wrong. I thought Dubas was a pretty good GM for Toronto and would prove that in Pitts.
The reason philly got a first for walker was largely due to them taking on Ryan Johansson's contract
When talking about a GM, or a NFL football coach, you need to ask. "How much owner interference?" Think Jerry Jones.
People have such a double standard for how much leash they give Duba vs other GMs
I’m sorry, Dubas is not the problem. It’s been ownership, coaching, age, and the disaster we’ve been recovering from that was Ron Hextall and the end stage of Jim Rutherford. You got the Guentzel deal wrong too btw, it was Jake for Bunting, Cruz Lucius, Ponomarev, Ville Koivinen, and the 2nd that became Brunicke who looks like he could make the team next year along with the 5th. It was supposed to be a 1st had the Canes made the Cul final. He went for quantity that could help and not solely a first round pick. Also The EK deal, despite the efforts of Karlsson, was a smart move because we dumped a lot of bad contracts. Only thing I would regret trading would be the 1st. And Jake forced that trade, he turned down four different contracts forcing the trade to happen. He’s fixed out prospect pool, started acquiring picks when we used to trade them all away, and he’s wanting to bring in young guys like Tomasino to help move forward with making the team younger. Mike Sullivan is key problem too that everyone seems to have forgotten. He doesn’t fit the Pens anymore but ownership loves him so Dubas can’t get rid of him. Has it been perfect, no, especially with the Graves and Jarry contracts. But again look at the goaltenders available that offseason. We were pretty limited.
(As everyone's pointing out) Dubas was thrown into the worst case scenario to fix hextals dumpster fire,
Jarry and Graves signings only seem bad NOW,
Karlsson and Smith trades weren't that bad,
fired PP Coach Reirden -> Hired David Quinn -> (correct me if I'm wrong) PP now is top 5 in the league,
Guentzel trade gave us 2 solid prospects (Ponomarev, Koivunen) and 2nd round pick,
Signed a lot of one year deals during free agenzy (might get traded at TDL)
Tomasino was fleeced from nashville,
Glass, Lizotte really solid signings
Pickering settling well
Blomqvist fits excellently in the NHL
And in general:
Very Good Drafting -> the best prospect pool Pittsburgh has had in years,
even though Dubas and Pens wants to succeed during regular season we're well on our way to a rebuild,
as everyone's pointing out rebuilding may take years and we're on a very solid ground.
Doofus is terrible, signing an aged Karl and re-signing useless Jarry put the nail in his coffin as soon as he started in Pitt.
I mean has he had enough time to do anything with the penguins. They’ve been a disaster for a while now.
you can say that about a burning car, but its whole other thing to pour gas on it thinking that all liquid acts like water
I think he probably said "sure, I'll keep your core and add to it" and he's letting it play out as badly as he knew it would. In an ideal world, Sid and Geno would be okay with starting the tank a couple years ago and taking younger players under their tutelage, but the instructions are to "win now"
Big Fan Eck. Keep the content coming.
I cant expect you to know every detail in the Penguins universe.
Getting out of Granlund and Petry for a 1st and getting Karlsson was great.
Jarry deal has been awful but only other option really was Korpisalo.
Graves has been a big turd.
Definitely expectinf better from Dubas but Hextall really gave him nothing.
There is a world where you both have the same opinion and are just voicing it differently. Dubas really hasn’t lifted the Penguins to a level where they are anymore of a contender than they were the difference is you realize that this isn’t an overnight thing where as Eck knows how much power and autonomy he has and could drastically change things. Only thing that clears that up is how much overhead decisions are dictating Dubas and not letting him change the team to drastically
I get how fans have high expectations for a Stanley Cup, like when Dubas was in Toronto, but the chance of winning a Cup are really small: 1/32. Make the playoffs, 1/16. Terrible odds when parity is so high.
You don’t know wtf you’re talking about bud
I mean, Dubas isn’t crushing it, but he was given a tough scope of work with the pieces he has been handed from Hextall and Burke.
FSG, notably Kevin Acklin, wants the Penguins to have a competitive window while the core is there. They don’t believe that a full scale rebuild is necessary since the salary floor is so close to the cap (20% differential), and even if they did believe in a rebuild, dubas was left with almost no NHL Caliber prospects (Pickering, Blomqvist, St. Ivany is a stretch but he was acquired by hextall).
We only had like 2 first round picks since our last cup before Dubas came in, and one of them is doomed to the AHL (poulin). Replenishing the prospect pool with the Guentzel trade was a good move, but we should have tried to resign him with the $3.1M we took in from Jeff Carter retiring, plus the extra $6M we had on July 1.
At least Koivunen, Ponomarev, Brunicke, and Lucius all look semi-promising…
Weeks into Dubas’s hiring, he had free agency… and I don’t think he fully thought the Jarry signing through, nor the graves signing… those are genuine errors on his part, but one thing we didn’t get from hextall was any accountability from mistakes, and dubas’s recent press conference (re: Jarry’s demotion), backs the idea that he’s not afraid to admit defeat and admit it early.
The Karlsson trade really helped us get Jeff Petry, Jan Rutta, and Mikael Granlund off of our books, and we actually saved money on the deal.
Good on granlund for killing it in San Jose, but his style did not mesh with Coach Sullivan’s system AT ALL.
I think the Penguins will be on the playoff bubble again and might not make it, but at least with Dubas, we have more pieces to come up next year (our AHL team is 3rd in pts percentage and our goalies are seeing beach balls).
He’s not doing an awesome job, and I can see how national media doesn’t have the best pulse on how Dubas has run the operation, but I think he’s got us in a better direction than Hextall and Burke.
The trade deadline will give me a better chance to evaluate how well he is doing, especially with trying to move Jarry and Graves.
Friendly reminder: Dubas was hired as President of Hockey Ops, and is filling the GM role “until one is hired.” The AGM, Jason Spezza, has done a really good job with the baby pens. It wouldn’t shock me to see Spezza come up to the GM role in 1-2 years and manage the big club, with Dubas exclusively being in an advisory role.
Rutherford emptied the cupboards. Same thing the Canucks should worried about.
Dubas is doing the best with what he has, which overall isn’t much in the wake of the Hextall/Burke situation. Dubas I think finds himself in this awkward place of having to continue to maintain a competitive team while the Big 3 (87, 71, & 58) are still around and preparing for the future with draft picks and prospects which were all but depleted by the previous management team.
In comparison to the absolute massacre Hextall did to the pens, Dubas is actually doing god's work. He was given a team of effectively ahl caliber players carried by Crosby and the boys and he's been told "figure it out". Guentzel was more than likely not staying so the return they got all things consider is fine. Karlsson's decline sucks but this was something that was largely expected, even so you can argue thats still an L, sure. So far thats it, tho. Hextall arguably doesnt even have a strictly positive move he did at pittsburgh. I say let him cook and then we can talk about it in 2 years
After all, Toronto also gave him plenty of time to cook, arguably too much, but today they have an actually competent regular season team
Agree with most of the comments here, but I also think the Karlsson deal was amazing at the time. All of our bad players for one good (not amazing) player. The cap hit sucks, but getting rid of those other players to create space for younger guys with lower cap hits feels like a good move to me. It was as much a player dump as anything.
i'll give Dubas some credit for his salary cap manurers and making deals with other GMs that at the time seem odd but then down the road he makes moves that you didn't think were even possible. the Leafs roster was good on paper a couple seasons ago he just couldn't pull the trigger on a coaching change, as a GM in the OHL, for the Marlies and the Leafs he always had Kiefe or Keef? as a head coach.
Karlsson is a top offensive D when he's alone with the team... With Letang in the team, he's not the only option. When SJ moved Burns, his stats exploded... in OTT, he was alone too... Real bad move from Dubas...
look at the contracts that went the other way in the karlsson move lol we were in a worse cap situation before the deal
It's true. It's lost to history now, I guess, but the Penguins cap hit actually went *down* after the Karlsson trade. That's how many bad contracts he moved out with it.
Can’t blame dubas at all. The pens won their chips they should’ve rebuilt but didn’t tried to make something outta nothing. Traded away all our picks.
Did the NHL stop their predatory demonetization???
Funny to hear a Rangers fan try to trash Dubas who has done the best job out of the past few GMs from Hextall to everything Rutherford did after 2017, even Shero who sold the farm and never even got a cup out of it.
your anti-Leafs bias is a bit passive agressive
Karlsson wasn’t a signing. He was a trade.
It all began when gmjr traded away 8 years worth of firsts leaving pens with no future prospects. Hextall just put the finishing touches on it. Who trades for and then re-signs old man carter? Not much dubas can do after the mess.
He’s a total joke. I agree with you, wasting Crosby’s final years under this 🤡
I'm shocked that a Rags fan would literally copy and paste their opinion from a Flyers fan regarding another metro team. Shocked I tell ya.
Pens fan here. Has Dubas been perfect? No, but he's one of the few members of the organization myself and most Pens fans I've seen aren't mad at.
Dubas inherited and absolute nightmare from Ron Hextall (When you have fans chanting for the GM to be fired you know he's really bad). No prospect pool, no draft capital, a roster whose average age was I believe 31 at the time, and a HC coach who is clearly past his prime with the team but ownership won't let him go (I love Sully but you can tell he's been in the same room too long). To top it all of, Dubas was left with really only two bad options for how he wanted to direct the team. Either tank and waste Crosby, Malkin, and Letang's last years or sell of the team's future for what probably would have been a second round exit at best. Do I wish the team would have been a bit more committed to one of the two options, either an all out tank or final push? Of course, but given the Pens have missed the playoffs by a combined 4 points the last two seasons, it seems like Dubas' middle of the road approach was a worthwhile experiment.
It's clear now the team is going to sell at the deadline, which is the right call. Trading off Guentzel last year, waiving Jarry, and probably trading Karlsson.
He's was given an impossible situation. He didn't handle it perfectly, but he at least kept them respectable. Give him some time and see what he can do with a rebuild.
It's another one of those stories of a team trying to hold onto the glory days for way too long. They never went into a rebuild, barely retooled. Shed their prospects and prime players for older veterans with little return for the rentals. Now the real mystery is Buffalose. How is that worthless team still around?
Not a good take here. Dubas 1st year was questionable with some of the signings, but I don’t even blame him the position they’re in. He came in when Hextall butchered this team to the bare bone and with no prospects in their system Dubas had 0 farm and can’t even give up draft picks for big trades and the point for the EK trade was to limit Letangs ice time given his past health complications plus they took off bad contracts and made more money off that trade. For the Guentzel trade you aren’t getting much out of a rental, and Tbf we got Brunkie with Carolina’s who was elite for us in the pre season, plus Vile has been lighting it up in the AHL. Dubas rebuilt our entire A team into contenders in 1 season and as a Penguins fan, their window perished the moment Hextall got rid of McCann, Tanev, signed Kapanen over Rodriguez, and traded Marino and Matheson.
Significant miss for an otherwise good channel: citing the Guentzel, Jarry, and Karlsson moves as bad decisions while not highlighting the Graves deal as actually an error shows a lack of understanding. Hopefully next video is back up to par
im ngl... dubas is not a miracle worker , i think people talk about him as if he was supposed to magically fix EVERYTHING , yes he made mistakes but he gets a LOT of hate when i dont really know how he was supposed to fix it on his own - again , i dont agree with everything hes done but he kinda came in to the biggest nightmare that was probably a little too much for him to actually address all at once
I'm a Leafs fan who's neutral on Dubas. I don't hate him but I was ok with him leaving Toronto because of the lack of results. My frustration with the organization was (is) still directed at Shanahan, the only guy during the Leafs failures who's never been held accountable. Anyway, blaming Dubas for the Penguins situation is ridiculous. He was basically told told by owners and management NOT to start the rebuild and keep a team that's "fairly respectable" while Crosby was still there. Sure, he's made some bad trades working from a position of weakness but name one GM who hasn't even when they've held all the cards. Again, I'm not a Dubas supporter but I don't get all the hate for him. I suppose people want scapegoats but they're looking at the wrong guy. You have to go one GM prior for that.
Did you forget Reilly Smith? And.....
Gosh all these people blaming the previous management. Honestly, has anybody accomplished so little while continuing to be praised and promoted as dubas?
Dubas inherited a mess but some of his moves haven’t been great either…. But he’s got time, see what happens. As a TO fan I can tell you one thing about Dubas: he loves his “guys”, just a bit too much that it can limit other players opportunities and doesn’t help with trades.
love you eck but this is a bad take. dubas has been cooking, but makes mistake. every gm does, it's just high lighted because it's dubas. also, as a pens fan, i'm happy with the guentzel trade, guentzel wanted out, and everyone knew. for the little leverage dubas had, he got decent return. particularly, the second turned into tanner howe, who's lighting up the whl and almost made the roster this year as an 18 y.o. also, the reilly smith trade was fantastic, getting him for a third. for what he was, that was a finesse. sure, he didn't pan out, but how is that on dubas?
overall, he's been a good gm, struggling with the difficulty of an aging group with poor contracts signed by the previous gm
You have to be a disaster to rebuild, which is what they should have done when Dubas got to Pittsburgh, but they couldn’t, because Crosby is Crosby, it’s hard to admit you need to rebuild when Crosby always seems to give you a chance. I think that Toronto is a disaster no matter who is in charge. It’s an absolutely toxic work environment, the culture of Toronto will prevent it success because if a GM doesn’t come in there and win 6 Stanley Cups in 3 years they’re seen as a failure. So anyone who was ever in Toronto is often seen as a failure. That said, Pittsburgh will show what Dubas is really capable of. He’s made some questionable deals and some bad ones, but so did Jim Rutherford when he started with the Penguins as GM, but it was what he did with those mistakes to correct them that won 2 Cups. I’m not ready to say Dubas is awful, but the trajectory isn’t looking good, but I’m waiting to see what he does at this year’s trade deadline and into free agency this summer
Dogsh!t take.Firstly, the Penguins missed the playoffs _with_ Guentzel on a favorable contract. Giving him what Tampa did would've been a big mistake. Secondly, Dubas didn't *sign* Karlsson, he traded for him. Traded mostly trash, too. He hasn't been what he was for the Sharks, but that's leads to the real problem: Mike Sullivan.
The Graves deal seemed good at the time, but he's been terrible. It sucks, but things like that happen sometimes. The Jarry deal... Sullivan lobbied to keep Jarry in Pittsburgh. Sure, Dubas didn't have to listen. But he trusted Sullivan's judgement, and that turned out to be a terrible thing to do. And that's the biggest problem to me: the Penguins as an organization have unconditional and total faith in Sullivan. There's a lot of speculation about why that is. But in my opinion, just like Bylsma, he was the right guy at the right time, in '16 & '17. But the wheels fell off a long time ago, but people are still behaving like he's the best coach in the league. He's not. Not even close.
Rage bait for clicks from your Toronto audience, clearly from they response in the comments anyone that knows anything about hockey knows the penguins being where they are now is not because of Dubas
most Leafs fans I know didn't hate Dubas. I for sure didn't. Our playoff failures I don't put on Dubas
The Penguins should’ve started thinking about the post Crosby era at the end of Rutherford’s time as GM.
I get why people defend Dubas's firing from the Leafs, but from what I've seen he's just not a good coach. He did nothing with the Leafs, and he's been absolutely miserable with the Pens
He's not a coach
1. It was stated multiple times Dubas was looking for nearly NHL ready prospects for Guentzel instead of draft capital (of which the Pens got three)
2. As many mention below, Dubas inherited probably the muddiest situation in the NHL from Hextall.
3. Karlsson probably isn't a fantastic trade, but Letang is over the hill at this point, so I'm almost fine with it tbh
4. Dubas did fuck up free agency with Smith, Graves, Jarry, etc.
just gonna leave out the 3 prospects in the Guentzel trade of which 2 are doing great in the AHL rn as well as the fact that Reilly Smith was successfully flipped for better picks then he paid for him.
Regardless of the obvious BS he inherited, there is some merit to questioning what he's done so far. But I actually think his moves have more to do with what he perceived his mistakes to be in Toronto, and the fact that he basically was put into the same spot that he left: an overhyped and immovable "core four" that he needed to work around. Karlsson had just come off a 100 point season, so even if he dipped a bit, you'd expect more from him. But having Letang and Karlsson just makes no sense.
Dynas can make some impressive moves with very little space, but he can't float a sinking ship.
Penguins should have had the fire sale 5yrs ago and had they done this, they wouldn't be wasting the twilight of sid/malkin/letang...so goofy. all they had to do for 3yrs was sign free agents to 1yr contracts, play them on sid or gino's line to pump em up and then dump them at the deadline for picks. while doing this, you trade picks or whatever to snipe early mid 20s players who have put teams in a bind/ cap casualties and just let the machine work. like christ, its not rocket science.
I have to disagree. Things are trending in the right direction. The Jarry contract was the only option at the time. Graves was definitely a miss. But this running rebuild is going well. Cupboards aren't bare anymore. I predict now they bounced Jarry they'll make the playoffs.
These guys repeat things like parrots in these repeat fake lazy hockey videos. Who cares if the Pens didn't get a 1st round pick because they drafted Harrison Brunicke in the 2nd round with the pick they got from the Canes which was the Flyers. You and Frank Hairavalli need to emphasize the player Harrison Brunicke and de-emphasize the "1st round pick" as if they lost out on a player not attained. Rakell has 23 goals on Crosby's left wing and make $5AAV. Guentzel has 23 goals and makes $9AAV. Last season Bunting had 19 points in 21 games and rejuvenated Geno. Bunting leads the team this season with 8 power play goals and is 3rd on the team with 13 goals. This season the Pens have the 5th best power play at 27.1%. Last season the Pens had the 30th power play at 15.3%. Dubas traded for Bunting and hired coach Quinn. Now you randomly diss Erik Karlsson and his contract and call him a poor defender when he is know for offense. EK65 is 9th in the league among dmen with 28 assists and 10th in points with 32 points. Erik Karlsson is 1st on the Pens among dmen with 32 points. Grzelcyk is 2nd with 25 points including 24 assists. Letang has fallen off a cliff and only has 18 points. Maybe you should mention EK65's importance and compare him to Letang and his peers before disrespecting him.