Great video, very helpful! I didn't do my research before buying the bike used, I bought it because it was a Honda, not knowing of this wide-spread issue. It's unbelievable that Honda would not step up and 1. re-engineer the starter system, then 2. Do right by owners who invested in their product. When I finally get this starter all worked out this bike is gone!
This morning I have pulled out the gear number 6 and I have approved that it has failed as I was able to move the two gears by hand. Thank you very much for your excellent explain ☺️
I'm having the exact same problem with my 2021 450 rx . Glad I've watched your video, I've literally just paid £470 for it to be fixed and it's happened again but only the starter motor was changed the cog what runs with it . The bike is going back tomorrow and I've also sent him your video. Thanks again
Thank you for clarifying my issue. 22 450RX, the EXACT i mean to a T with what happened to yours. I wish Honda would solve this ill-engineered problem. You sir deserve 2 thumbs up and a pat on the back. Hats off to you my friend. Good luck with yours and happy riding.
@buffett1112 the one way clutch slipping damages the reduction gear . The reduction gear acts as a fuse. If it isn't able to slip in the event of undue stress the torque from the starter will Crack the case and damage of components in the starter system
Dealing with this now with my buddy’s 2019 CRF450L. Bike will turn over for a 3-5 seconds and then stop, hit the button again it does the same. Very loud bang noise as you explain. This bike has been a serious pain in the butt
@@ADVRally so I’m curious just because the starter reduction gear begins to spin independently does that mean that the one way clutch for sure is going bad?
@@keatonhillard8023 so if you are experiencing the starter just clicking quickly than your starter reduction gear is bad. If the one way clutch is failing you will experience abnormal engine cranking especially when starting the engine with the transmission in gear with the clutch pulled in. The sound of the starter will change and not be consistent especially right when the engine is about to start. The reduction gear is seemingly designed as a fuse and when the clutch slips for a second and re-engages it stresses the reduction gear and it eventually breaks free and spins independent from the crank side of the gear set.
@@ADVRally so I would have an 1/8 compression or a “yeeh” for lack of better terms when holding the ignition switch and I would not get another “yeeh” until I pressed the switch again. I had to actually roll my bike down a hill and clutch pop the bike to get it cranked so it could warm and I could then drain the oil a couple of days ago and about 10 min ago I broke down the case and found that reduction gear b was spinning. Everything else visibly looks great I only purchased a gasket and a new reduction gear b but am nervous to put it back before knowing if that one way clutch didn’t play into the problem.
@@ADVRally the last day I rode my bike I would have the “1/8 ignition “ maybe 3 times then it would turn over and when I would stop and start again it may “1/8 ignition “about 5 times then 7 times etc. until i luckily made it home and once it sat for a day it would no longer crank
mine is a 2022, gear started having issues in the first month, I didnt really know what it was until it actually quit starting altogether. Was a huge pain in my ass. Dealership had my bike for 2 months and did absolutely NOTHING. bike was down 6 months out of my first year of ownership. Also left me stranded several times. Honda has done nothing to remedy or satisfy me. I have been a lifelong honda lover. That is no longer the case. They agreed to settle on leaving me unsatisfied. I will be sure to tell people how I was treated when they ask. Very unfortunate, I am highly disappointed. This sucks.
Didn't know you could put the piece on the starter clutch backwards pretty sure that's my problem im tearing it down now I already welded my centrifugal gear and tested the starter i have 2 starter clutches on deck thanks for the detailed video i have a 2007 honda trx 450er by the way same set up
Dealing with the same issue on a 2021 450rl, broke down at 2100 km. Thanks a lot for your brilliant vid. A fxx kickstarter would help. My starter went down on the mountain in hard terrain ☠️☠️☠️
That's terrible, you are the first person I've heard having this issue in the past few months. Are you experiencing the click or total starter failure " gears grinding or gear mesh lock up"?
@@xrplt I cant imagine. mine was hard enough in the muddy dirt. Is the starter just clicking or is the starter jammed up? I am trying to get an idea of what most peoples failure point is. Thanks and good luck
@@ADVRally my starter failure sounded li,e the starter just free spinning.....and included a cracked case. All I can say right now is American Honda is aware of these issues and you need to take your bike back to the dealership where you bought it and start asking questions.
@@xrplt wow you are the second person I have heard about having the case Crack. The other guys bike was nearly new with around 500 miles. I had to replace the whole starting system. The intermediate gear on my bike has failed twice since the original failure which was due to the one-way clutch failing. Good luck . My bike wasn't under warranty.
i Have a 2023 with 1675 miles and just had this happen today, thankfully it’s under warranty will take it to the dealer….. but up till now bikes been great
This same thing happened to me with my 2024 450RL right under 4000 miles. Im one of the ones that cracked the engine case. Luckily, mine was still under warranty and my dealer, Southern Honda Powersports, is legit and they warrantied it.
Good video… I have a 2022 450 RL and was riding the Buffaloe 500 in Columbus, IN last weekend - 75 miles into first day I had this issue and it cracked my case. 1,400 miles on the bike. Haven’t torn anything apart yet - still evaluating options to fix. Sickening to see this being an issue with a Honda.
@@ADVRally so to your knowledge there has been no re-engineering of the failing parts yet and no recall it seems? I read a FB post of someone disconnecting clutch switch so they had to be in neutral to start so they weren’t increasing load starting in gear with clutch in. Still doesn’t solve the problem but do you have any opinion on that? Mine stalled out while I was rolling so I pulled in clutch (in gear) to restart and that’s when I had catastrophic failure.
@Hladish27 so , I have heard of this and practice it. Only starting in neutral. The quality issues are two fold. The intermediate gear is like a fuse , pressed together with enough friction to serve the starting system and incase of a siezed or locked up engine it is supposed to break apart and spin freely to prevent the engine case from fracturing. This gear is too tightly pressed together on some engines , so when the one way clutch slips it exerts an extreme amount of reverse pressure on the starting system. Causing the case to split .
I've got a 21rl, no starter issues. I've been riding it for about a year now, mine was a very early 21, within the first few hundred produced for that year. I have a different issue, I have a valve noise that presented itself around a hundred miles. Talked with Honda about that and the consistent flame outs, and they denied knowing anything about either issue. I bought the three-year extended Honda factory warranty, so hopefully if anything happens they will warranty it.
That's great! I don't think it's a large percentage of the market having these issues. A few hundred maybe . Mine has been a nightmare as far as the starting system. Great bike otherwise. I imagine you have had your valve clearance checked? The and the timing chain are the main issues causing ticking sounds. Good luck with the bike Man and thanks for the comment.
Mine went out last weekend. 2022 CRF450RL. Less than 500 miles on the bike. I am a huge Honda fan but this needs to be fixed by Honda. I’m waiting for shops to get back to me with a cost and time estimate to repair this.
22rl same exact problem. My reduction gear bolt was loose as well. Bought the extended warranty and what a rip-off ima have to fight them on it. Between the starter issue and the warranty I’m out $1700 and now the bike doesn’t run at all. Not a good week this dealer had to do something the bike ran fine the day the starter locked
It happen's to me also 1500km on the bike. I have had to call a couple of friends that help me come back to home I was into the wild alone and it was impossible to start the moto....
I’ve got a 2023 crf450r with 50hours on it. The starter has killed itself twice now, I’ve changed everything except the reduction gear and I’ve about had it with this starter design.
Yeah it's a terrible design. Honda has had issues with the barrels in the one-way clutch since 2006 when the TRX450er came out. It's probably the same part.
Hey buddy thanks for the video my starter fail today couple miles back in the woods in deep sand four-wheeler came along and pulled me back to the this bike has been very problematic. Worst Honda I've ever owned I know Honda doesn't care if you see this could you please make a list have everything needed to rebuild the starter and gears? Thanks so much
What symptoms are you having? Clicking starter, grinding starter? Skipping a stroke while cranking? Different parts for different problems. All of the part numbers are in the video too btw.
how do you remove the nut on the cam shaft gear? I assume it has to come off to remove the starting clutch right? Im having the same issue on a 2020 crf450.
I have a 22 450rx thats been having the same issue since i bought the bike. Honda needs to recall these parts, i hate to keep buying OE parts if its going to just happen again.
Seems like the timing is just too advanced while cranking. 'Kick back' is what you use to get back in the day with kick start bikes and this would happen. The spark is so advanced and piston going up so slowly that the piston get's driven down backwards 1/2 a stroke. On kick bikes that would hurt the hell out of your foot but on a new e start bike I think that could cause that exact sort of damage. Many things could cause it to be excessively advanced, mechanical or electrical. Is your TPS miss adjusted? Had the stator side of the motor been apart at all before the first failure and maybe something off a tooth? Maybe crank sensor off or reading off. Just being off 20deg would do it.
I thought the same thing, it ended up just being the one way clutch would slip on the combustion stroke. The sprag had flat spots on the drums. Once I replaced it all of the kick back went away.
@@ADVRally I'm trying to think very clearly though this and the sprag slipping would not cause gear damage. It could cause a no start but only the engine kicking backwards would cause all this gear damage. What is your theory on what actually causes the damage to the gears?
@@C5turbo the abrupt stop of the gears while the stater motor is still turning. Honda has seen multiple broken cases from this issue. It's not a contested issue. The one way clutch slips momentarily just as combustion begins.. 10 or so degrees before TDC and the piston trys to go back down the cylinder at the same time the oneway clutch re-engages binding the starting gear drives. There are a few people on here who have had split cases on bikes with less than 500 miles.
@@ADVRally I'm not debating that it's happening, it certainly is. I'm just pretty sure it's a slightly different 'what is the cause' and 'what is the effect.' Knowing the cause is critical to addressing it. We are saying almost the exact same thing but I think cause is piston kicking back and the sprag damage is the effect. It would be interesting if like 20 people who have the no start issue, just swapped out sprags and all 20 the problem goes away, then I'd wrap my head around that. I have a 2019 L and 2022 R-S so rather invested in the platform.
I've ran the wheels off of 4 XR650Rs now and have NEVER pushed one home. In the last year I've pushed a crf250rx, and a KTM450SX-F factory edition ( man, that factory edition really pushes nice 👍) three times each. Give me a bike with a KICK STARTER.
Since you replaced all of the start system with genuine parts and this video is now 2 years old, have you had further issues with the start system, or did replacing everything solve the issues?
Initially I replaced everything but the sprag . It started tearing the teeth off of the starter after the first ride. That was when I realized what the root of the issue was.
@@ADVRally thanks mate, that's what I needed to hear to convince myself it was worth repairing and not giving up on it. I'm going to replace everything straight up. Really appreciate you taking the time to come back to me as well as the many others that I can see you've responded to. You're a champ!
@bradmullan you're welcome Brad , I hoped this wasn't going to be a huge problem but I just kept getting feedback on the video. My buddy Tom @ratherberiding5964 has a 2021 450RL and he had never had an issue. We did actually have to change his left side case though it was not for starter issues. I hope you get it all sorted out soon. Good luck.
That's what happened to me. First ride , the whole system grenades. Two weeks into the covid mess. Took 4 months to get a starter and I ended up needing way more parts. 6 months lateri got it going and the new reduction gear was slipping. It's like a fuse incase the engine siezes
If the engine is kicking back during start up the one-way clutch is going bad, damaging the reduction gear. Look for specs of crome plating in the viens of the oil filter. If you find any it is likely the plating from the barrels in the one-way clutch and drum
@@ADVRally I hit the starter button and it’ll barely turn the engine over at all. I checked the battery and it’s full charge. Is the gear just the first gear inside the case that the starter contacts? What do you think the issue is?
Just drain your coolant , take the side cover off .if I remember correctly, you can remove the pin drum that supports it, and it will come right out. Hold each side of the gear and turn them in opposite direction. If there is any movement the reduction gear is bad. Rocky mountain has them.
@@ADVRally Ok I’ll crack it open tomorrow. I really appreciate the advice. Curious why the coolant needs to be drained? Do I also need to drain the engine oil?
@ChrisB-xf2zg you have to drain the coolant because the water pump is on the clutch cover. If ypu.lay the bike over on its side, you won't have to drain the oil.
So when I got everything put the case back on I test cranked the engine and the starter would free wheel for a fraction of a second. When the ecu doesn't see a crank signal it immediately cuts the starter command.
I've had to replace the starter twice along with cog 8 twice, I used a hydraulic clutch when new - I thought it was the clutch not disengaging enough causing drag when starting. I now have a rekluse clutch, Honda with their shitty starter system and heavy cable clutch! Ebay starters are much cheaper - just as good ! My cog 8 bolt thread is internally bent/ damaged, so i am really careful when starting. I wonder if this is caused by the same issue you have. Honda using a shit old design that needs updating - Sadly Honda is not what it used to be in the late 90's.
@mindfulmunchkin1215 Did you inspect your sprag? "One-way clutch"? That is the part that stresses the system during start up. It slips during the compression stroke causing the starting system to have unusual load strain when the sprag re grips. If you see any wear on the cylindrical bearings it is slipping.
I have a 2021 Honda crf450rx and the starter is new and it starter making a grinding sound that same day I put it on and I opened it and my starter is all chewed up now what could have been the problem on mine
I would assume that the engine was cranking abnormally before the first starter failed. i.e engine speed slows or stops momentarily with harsh back spin sound? That would be a failure of the one-way clutch that intern chews up the teeth of the gear in contact with the starter.
@@ADVRally how can I contact you I was looking at all the gears and they seem fine also the one-way clutch seems fine too I have a video of the bike making the noise how can I show it to you?
Same issue here. Intermittent starter. Just clicks then starts. Can i please have the part number because I'm confused as to which starter reduction gear to look at.
@@ADVRally Thank you. I have to do some research now. Does the clutch assembly need to come out? I see I need to pull the water pump also. Does the water pump and the case have reusable gaskets?
@@socalgix if you are careful you can reuse the gasket. Waterpump has o rings. I think you can replace it with the basket on. I can't remember. I'd have to watch the video again. If you can slide the roller pin out you should be able to replace it. It's not hard by any means.
You are not alone, trust me! Honda needs to put out a recall for this. Bike cost $11,000. This is Bullshit! They got rid of my fuckin ATC'S for safety, Wtf is this???
@@serrano1558 so the little pin broke or fell out and the #8 gear came off? That's crazy there have been so many problems with the starting systems. Has it been resolved yet?
I remember the screw that hold that in on mine was barely tight. I could have loosened it with a pocket screw driver. I put lock tight on it when I reassembled everything
Dealership had my bike for 2 months and claimed nothing wrong with it. I told them the problem when I dropped it off, Piece of shit would not start for me on the way there or the way home... 22 crf450rl lemon
That's terrible man, are you having the clicking starter? It's around $100 and it's not to bad to replace. I'd take it to a different dealership if that's possible. Get a hold of Honda directly and explain the situation. They have helped a few people deal with the dealership in their area. Mine was out of warranty by time. Had 450 miles.
@@ADVRally Yes I'd not heard of it either. I posed on the FB page and 6 other guys came fwd with the same crack in the same place :-( I'm still considering a new '23 as I like the bike so much !.
@haket2000 That sucks . I don't belong to any groups so I only hear from people commenting on my videos. I like the bike as well although I have heard of people with 21 and 22 models having starter reduction gear issues but no cracked cases. My buddy has a 21 and it had been solid.
@haket2000 Thanks. I just make the video's so me and my riding buddies can watch and laugh at each other. I get annoyed at all the video's on UA-cam trashing the 450L. I ride with lots of euro bike guys and don't have alot of trouble keeping up with them.
Great video, very helpful! I didn't do my research before buying the bike used, I bought it because it was a Honda, not knowing of this wide-spread issue. It's unbelievable that Honda would not step up and 1. re-engineer the starter system, then 2. Do right by owners who invested in their product. When I finally get this starter all worked out this bike is gone!
This morning I have pulled out the gear number 6 and I have approved that it has failed as I was able to move the two gears by hand.
Thank you very much for your excellent explain ☺️
You are welcome
I'm having the exact same problem with my 2021 450 rx . Glad I've watched your video, I've literally just paid £470 for it to be fixed and it's happened again but only the starter motor was changed the cog what runs with it . The bike is going back tomorrow and I've also sent him your video. Thanks again
Hey I had a few questions regarding this problem, did you end up solving
Thank you for clarifying my issue. 22 450RX, the EXACT i mean to a T with what happened to yours. I wish Honda would solve this ill-engineered problem. You sir deserve 2 thumbs up and a pat on the back. Hats off to you my friend. Good luck with yours and happy riding.
So hey I had a few questions because I have the exact same bike and I just come across this video
Hey got a question
@buffett1112 what's up?
Did you end up fixing your issue and was it the one way clutch or the starter reduction gear b
@buffett1112 the one way clutch slipping damages the reduction gear . The reduction gear acts as a fuse. If it isn't able to slip in the event of undue stress the torque from the starter will Crack the case and damage of components in the starter system
Dealing with this now with my buddy’s 2019 CRF450L. Bike will turn over for a 3-5 seconds and then stop, hit the button again it does the same. Very loud bang noise as you explain. This bike has been a serious pain in the butt
Yeah that's the one way clutch slipping and then catching on the compression stroke.
This has been the most helpful video Ive seen so far Im currently dealing with this issue on my 2019 450l and only has 650 miles
If you have any questions feel free to ask
@@ADVRally so I’m curious just because the starter reduction gear begins to spin independently does that mean that the one way clutch for sure is going bad?
@@keatonhillard8023 so if you are experiencing the starter just clicking quickly than your starter reduction gear is bad. If the one way clutch is failing you will experience abnormal engine cranking especially when starting the engine with the transmission in gear with the clutch pulled in. The sound of the starter will change and not be consistent especially right when the engine is about to start. The reduction gear is seemingly designed as a fuse and when the clutch slips for a second and re-engages it stresses the reduction gear and it eventually breaks free and spins independent from the crank side of the gear set.
@@ADVRally so I would have an 1/8 compression or a “yeeh” for lack of better terms when holding the ignition switch and I would not get another “yeeh” until I pressed the switch again. I had to actually roll my bike down a hill and clutch pop the bike to get it cranked so it could warm and I could then drain the oil a couple of days ago and about 10 min ago I broke down the case and found that reduction gear b was spinning. Everything else visibly looks great I only purchased a gasket and a new reduction gear b but am nervous to put it back before knowing if that one way clutch didn’t play into the problem.
@@ADVRally the last day I rode my bike I would have the “1/8 ignition “ maybe 3 times then it would turn over and when I would stop and start again it may “1/8 ignition “about 5 times then 7 times etc. until i luckily made it home and once it sat for a day it would no longer crank
Man, you have some deep understanding of this bike (and probably most mechanical things). Cool. I have the 21RL--so far, so good..
Unfortunately , I've had this thing apart 3 times. I've had plenty of down time to figure it out.
mine is a 2022, gear started having issues in the first month, I didnt really know what it was until it actually quit starting altogether. Was a huge pain in my ass. Dealership had my bike for 2 months and did absolutely NOTHING. bike was down 6 months out of my first year of ownership. Also left me stranded several times. Honda has done nothing to remedy or satisfy me. I have been a lifelong honda lover. That is no longer the case. They agreed to settle on leaving me unsatisfied. I will be sure to tell people how I was treated when they ask. Very unfortunate, I am highly disappointed. This sucks.
That sucks man , I assume you were getting the click when hitting the starter button? "Intermediate gear Slip"
Didn't know you could put the piece on the starter clutch backwards pretty sure that's my problem im tearing it down now I already welded my centrifugal gear and tested the starter i have 2 starter clutches on deck thanks for the detailed video i have a 2007 honda trx 450er by the way same set up
Yeah I put mine on backwards the first time.
Honda must do a recall end off.
Dealing with the same issue on a 2021 450rl, broke down at 2100 km. Thanks a lot for your brilliant vid. A fxx kickstarter would help. My starter went down on the mountain in hard terrain ☠️☠️☠️
That's terrible, you are the first person I've heard having this issue in the past few months. Are you experiencing the click or total starter failure " gears grinding or gear mesh lock up"?
Mine died in the middle of Baja....you know how hard it is bump start a bike in the sand 🤬..
@@xrplt I cant imagine. mine was hard enough in the muddy dirt. Is the starter just clicking or is the starter jammed up? I am trying to get an idea of what most peoples failure point is. Thanks and good luck
@@ADVRally my starter failure sounded li,e the starter just free spinning.....and included a cracked case. All I can say right now is American Honda is aware of these issues and you need to take your bike back to the dealership where you bought it and start asking questions.
@@xrplt wow you are the second person I have heard about having the case Crack. The other guys bike was nearly new with around 500 miles. I had to replace the whole starting system. The intermediate gear on my bike has failed twice since the original failure which was due to the one-way clutch failing. Good luck . My bike wasn't under warranty.
i Have a 2023 with 1675 miles and just had this happen today, thankfully it’s under warranty will take it to the dealer….. but up till now bikes been great
This same thing happened to me with my 2024 450RL right under 4000 miles. Im one of the ones that cracked the engine case. Luckily, mine was still under warranty and my dealer, Southern Honda Powersports, is legit and they warrantied it.
Good video… I have a 2022 450 RL and was riding the Buffaloe 500 in Columbus, IN last weekend - 75 miles into first day I had this issue and it cracked my case. 1,400 miles on the bike. Haven’t torn anything apart yet - still evaluating options to fix. Sickening to see this being an issue with a Honda.
Yes , Honda has known about this issue since the production launch of this model and it seems quality control on parts is not good.
@@ADVRally so to your knowledge there has been no re-engineering of the failing parts yet and no recall it seems? I read a FB post of someone disconnecting clutch switch so they had to be in neutral to start so they weren’t increasing load starting in gear with clutch in. Still doesn’t solve the problem but do you have any opinion on that? Mine stalled out while I was rolling so I pulled in clutch (in gear) to restart and that’s when I had catastrophic failure.
@Hladish27 so , I have heard of this and practice it. Only starting in neutral. The quality issues are two fold. The intermediate gear is like a fuse , pressed together with enough friction to serve the starting system and incase of a siezed or locked up engine it is supposed to break apart and spin freely to prevent the engine case from fracturing. This gear is too tightly pressed together on some engines , so when the one way clutch slips it exerts an extreme amount of reverse pressure on the starting system. Causing the case to split .
I'm having the issue where the starter gear keeps getting chewed up.. so I'm going to replace everything like you did
Perfect video 🤝💪
Sorry everyone , UA-cam doesn't notify me of new comments anymore on videos. I hope everyone finds this useful
I've got a 21rl, no starter issues. I've been riding it for about a year now, mine was a very early 21, within the first few hundred produced for that year. I have a different issue, I have a valve noise that presented itself around a hundred miles. Talked with Honda about that and the consistent flame outs, and they denied knowing anything about either issue. I bought the three-year extended Honda factory warranty, so hopefully if anything happens they will warranty it.
That's great! I don't think it's a large percentage of the market having these issues. A few hundred maybe . Mine has been a nightmare as far as the starting system. Great bike otherwise. I imagine you have had your valve clearance checked? The and the timing chain are the main issues causing ticking sounds. Good luck with the bike Man and thanks for the comment.
Mine went out last weekend. 2022 CRF450RL. Less than 500 miles on the bike. I am a huge Honda fan but this needs to be fixed by Honda. I’m waiting for shops to get back to me with a cost and time estimate to repair this.
22rl same exact problem. My reduction gear bolt was loose as well. Bought the extended warranty and what a rip-off ima have to fight them on it. Between the starter issue and the warranty I’m out $1700 and now the bike doesn’t run at all. Not a good week this dealer had to do something the bike ran fine the day the starter locked
Talk to xrplt in the comments. He knows how to deal with Honda.
It happen's to me also 1500km on the bike. I have had to call a couple of friends that help me come back to home I was into the wild alone and it was impossible to start the moto....
I’ve got a 2023 crf450r with 50hours on it. The starter has killed itself twice now, I’ve changed everything except the reduction gear and I’ve about had it with this starter design.
Yeah it's a terrible design. Honda has had issues with the barrels in the one-way clutch since 2006 when the TRX450er came out. It's probably the same part.
I have a 21. Went to get it ready for the season and my starter is doing precisely that 😒
Super Helpful video man,I have 19 450l with 3,038 miles and I’m experiencing the same problem with the starter turning on for a second and stopping.
Sorry to hear that man , glad I could help you some what.
Hey buddy thanks for the video my starter fail today couple miles back in the woods in deep sand four-wheeler came along and pulled me back to the this bike has been very problematic. Worst Honda I've ever owned I know Honda doesn't care if you see this could you please make a list have everything needed to rebuild the starter and gears? Thanks so much
What symptoms are you having? Clicking starter, grinding starter? Skipping a stroke while cranking? Different parts for different problems. All of the part numbers are in the video too btw.
how do you remove the nut on the cam shaft gear? I assume it has to come off to remove the starting clutch right? Im having the same issue on a 2020 crf450.
Sorry , I didn't get a new comment notification. I use an impact gun to remove it and a gear jamming tool when torquing it
I have a 22 450rx thats been having the same issue since i bought the bike. Honda needs to recall these parts, i hate to keep buying OE parts if its going to just happen again.
I had a similar problem, driving a brand new crf450RL 2022 of the lot, the dealership had to take it back and replace the part.
Honestly I haven't had any messages lately about people having these issues. I started to think Honda finally did something about it.
@@ADVRally. Have a 2022 with less than 500 miles and mine went out this past weekend.
@bhart89 yeah that's about the same mileage mine destroyed its self
Seems like the timing is just too advanced while cranking. 'Kick back' is what you use to get back in the day with kick start bikes and this would happen. The spark is so advanced and piston going up so slowly that the piston get's driven down backwards 1/2 a stroke. On kick bikes that would hurt the hell out of your foot but on a new e start bike I think that could cause that exact sort of damage. Many things could cause it to be excessively advanced, mechanical or electrical. Is your TPS miss adjusted? Had the stator side of the motor been apart at all before the first failure and maybe something off a tooth? Maybe crank sensor off or reading off. Just being off 20deg would do it.
I thought the same thing, it ended up just being the one way clutch would slip on the combustion stroke. The sprag had flat spots on the drums. Once I replaced it all of the kick back went away.
@@ADVRally All 3 times were on the same sprag? Then once you replaced it all the problems went away?
@@ADVRally I'm trying to think very clearly though this and the sprag slipping would not cause gear damage. It could cause a no start but only the engine kicking backwards would cause all this gear damage. What is your theory on what actually causes the damage to the gears?
@@C5turbo the abrupt stop of the gears while the stater motor is still turning. Honda has seen multiple broken cases from this issue. It's not a contested issue. The one way clutch slips momentarily just as combustion begins.. 10 or so degrees before TDC and the piston trys to go back down the cylinder at the same time the oneway clutch re-engages binding the starting gear drives. There are a few people on here who have had split cases on bikes with less than 500 miles.
@@ADVRally I'm not debating that it's happening, it certainly is. I'm just pretty sure it's a slightly different 'what is the cause' and 'what is the effect.' Knowing the cause is critical to addressing it. We are saying almost the exact same thing but I think cause is piston kicking back and the sprag damage is the effect. It would be interesting if like 20 people who have the no start issue, just swapped out sprags and all 20 the problem goes away, then I'd wrap my head around that. I have a 2019 L and 2022 R-S so rather invested in the platform.
I've ran the wheels off of 4 XR650Rs now and have NEVER pushed one home. In the last year I've pushed a crf250rx, and a KTM450SX-F factory edition ( man, that factory edition really pushes nice 👍) three times each. Give me a bike with a KICK STARTER.
Lmao. My KTM 300 pushes easy too. Hasn't left me stranded yet
I'd like to share this video to the CRF450 groups on Facebook, if you don't mind sir. There's a bunch of us in there that have delt with this.
Your more than welcome to
2020 450x with 368 miles...just started doing the non starting this last weekend.
Is it clicking or grinding?
Since you replaced all of the start system with genuine parts and this video is now 2 years old, have you had further issues with the start system, or did replacing everything solve the issues?
Initially I replaced everything but the sprag . It started tearing the teeth off of the starter after the first ride. That was when I realized what the root of the issue was.
@@ADVRally and then after replacing everything including the sprag, has the issue reoccured?
@@mcsenderson14 no , I've put 3,000 miles on
@@ADVRally thanks mate, that's what I needed to hear to convince myself it was worth repairing and not giving up on it. I'm going to replace everything straight up. Really appreciate you taking the time to come back to me as well as the many others that I can see you've responded to. You're a champ!
@bradmullan you're welcome Brad , I hoped this wasn't going to be a huge problem but I just kept getting feedback on the video. My buddy Tom @ratherberiding5964 has a 2021 450RL and he had never had an issue. We did actually have to change his left side case though it was not for starter issues. I hope you get it all sorted out soon. Good luck.
Fixed thanks to you. Unfortunately need a new starter too now. Do you have an extra one? lol
No I wish I did, what all was wrong with your bike?
@@ADVRally idk but found the only used one for sale on eBay
I bought a 8k bike used and it went out on the way home now I'm stuck with it
That's what happened to me. First ride , the whole system grenades. Two weeks into the covid mess. Took 4 months to get a starter and I ended up needing way more parts. 6 months lateri got it going and the new reduction gear was slipping. It's like a fuse incase the engine siezes
Im just now having this problem 21 450 rl 1300 miles Should i just start with the reduction gear ?
If the engine is kicking back during start up the one-way clutch is going bad, damaging the reduction gear. Look for specs of crome plating in the viens of the oil filter. If you find any it is likely the plating from the barrels in the one-way clutch and drum
You might have any idea why my starter keeps going out? I have a 21 rl and its my second time having to replace it
Does your engine struggle to start , sometimes back kicking during cranking? If so the one-way clutch is slipping
I’m having the same issue Right now as we speak they should do a recal and fix it for free 🤦🏽♂️
Me too . What year is it?
Man I’m very worried about my bike I just bought today now. It now won’t start. I think it’s the reduction gear. 2020 3k miles
What's it doing? Clicking? It's an easy repair
@@ADVRally I hit the starter button and it’ll barely turn the engine over at all. I checked the battery and it’s full charge. Is the gear just the first gear inside the case that the starter contacts? What do you think the issue is?
Just drain your coolant , take the side cover off .if I remember correctly, you can remove the pin drum that supports it, and it will come right out. Hold each side of the gear and turn them in opposite direction. If there is any movement the reduction gear is bad. Rocky mountain has them.
@@ADVRally Ok I’ll crack it open tomorrow. I really appreciate the advice. Curious why the coolant needs to be drained? Do I also need to drain the engine oil?
@ChrisB-xf2zg you have to drain the coolant because the water pump is on the clutch cover. If ypu.lay the bike over on its side, you won't have to drain the oil.
This happened to mine also but replaced everything, how did u know u put the one way clutch in backwards?
Gear number 1 spins anti clockwise when on the bike
So when I got everything put the case back on I test cranked the engine and the starter would free wheel for a fraction of a second. When the ecu doesn't see a crank signal it immediately cuts the starter command.
I think it should freewheel counter clockwise and lock on to the crankshaft when trying to turn closewise
@@ADVRally mines just makes a clicking noise when trying to start
@@ADVRally did u also need a new bearing after putting it in the wrong way?
I've had to replace the starter twice along with cog 8 twice, I used a hydraulic clutch when new - I thought it was the clutch not disengaging enough causing drag when starting. I now have a rekluse clutch, Honda with their shitty starter system and heavy cable clutch! Ebay starters are much cheaper - just as good ! My cog 8 bolt thread is internally bent/ damaged, so i am really careful when starting. I wonder if this is caused by the same issue you have. Honda using a shit old design that needs updating - Sadly Honda is not what it used to be in the late 90's.
If the engine kicks back when cranking or sounds uneven when cranking, the one way clutch is bad "slipping"
@@ADVRally It's gone again, did you ever get to the answer to why this actually happens? cheers :)
@mindfulmunchkin1215 Did you inspect your sprag? "One-way clutch"? That is the part that stresses the system during start up. It slips during the compression stroke causing the starting system to have unusual load strain when the sprag re grips. If you see any wear on the cylindrical bearings it is slipping.
@@ADVRally I have 2 coming next week - Got the sprag off - seems ok but will replace all bits -did you replace cog 1 also?
@@mindfulmunchkin1215 yes I did
I have a 2021 Honda crf450rx and the starter is new and it starter making a grinding sound that same day I put it on and I opened it and my starter is all chewed up now what could have been the problem on mine
I would assume that the engine was cranking abnormally before the first starter failed. i.e engine speed slows or stops momentarily with harsh back spin sound? That would be a failure of the one-way clutch that intern chews up the teeth of the gear in contact with the starter.
@@ADVRally how can I contact you I was looking at all the gears and they seem fine also the one-way clutch seems fine too I have a video of the bike making the noise how can I show it to you?
@@xxjsgamer2778 you can post it to your channel and send me the link and I can watch it.
@@ADVRally ua-cam.com/video/uXvPhq0irJs/v-deo.html
There u go
@@ADVRally please let me know what u think it can be thanks
Same issue here. Intermittent starter. Just clicks then starts. Can i please have the part number because I'm confused as to which starter reduction gear to look at.
28130-MKE-A10
Rocky mountain has a bunch of them in stock
@@ADVRally Thank you. I have to do some research now. Does the clutch assembly need to come out? I see I need to pull the water pump also. Does the water pump and the case have reusable gaskets?
@@socalgix if you are careful you can reuse the gasket. Waterpump has o rings. I think you can replace it with the basket on. I can't remember. I'd have to watch the video again. If you can slide the roller pin out you should be able to replace it. It's not hard by any means.
@@ADVRally you have a disassembly video?
2022 just hit 3000 just happened to me tonight. Bought it brand new…
It's crazy I have a friend with a 2019 and another with a 2021 and they both have been lucky.
Did you fix your problem as mine as done the same
You are not alone, trust me! Honda needs to put out a recall for this. Bike cost $11,000. This is Bullshit! They got rid of my fuckin ATC'S for safety, Wtf is this???
I can't see your other comment for some reason. It comes into my notifications but it brings me to this comment when I click on it
Dealing with the same thing on a 2019 450l
If you have any questions feel free to ask. Good luck
Ive got a 2020 crf450x with similar issues
I had #7 fail causing gear #8 fall out of place.
@@serrano1558 so the little pin broke or fell out and the #8 gear came off? That's crazy there have been so many problems with the starting systems. Has it been resolved yet?
I remember the screw that hold that in on mine was barely tight. I could have loosened it with a pocket screw driver. I put lock tight on it when I reassembled everything
@@ADVRally no, #7 actually broke. You know how it has that little flare or flat edge, that’s the part that broke off allowing the #8 gear to come out.
WOW , I would not have guessed that it would fail that way.
Dealership had my bike for 2 months and claimed nothing wrong with it. I told them the problem when I dropped it off, Piece of shit would not start for me on the way there or the way home... 22 crf450rl lemon
That's terrible man, are you having the clicking starter? It's around $100 and it's not to bad to replace. I'd take it to a different dealership if that's possible. Get a hold of Honda directly and explain the situation. They have helped a few people deal with the dealership in their area. Mine was out of warranty by time. Had 450 miles.
my 2019 just failed. Bad news for me is it cracked my crankcase :-( my gears look exactly like yours
Man that sucks. I haven't heard of many problems lately. You are the 2nd person to tell me their case cracked.
@@ADVRally Yes I'd not heard of it either. I posed on the FB page and 6 other guys came fwd with the same crack in the same place :-( I'm still considering a new '23 as I like the bike so much !.
@haket2000 That sucks . I don't belong to any groups so I only hear from people commenting on my videos. I like the bike as well although I have heard of people with 21 and 22 models having starter reduction gear issues but no cracked cases. My buddy has a 21 and it had been solid.
@@ADVRally Your vid does give me some confidence in the model. So thanks for the good work !.
@haket2000 Thanks. I just make the video's so me and my riding buddies can watch and laugh at each other. I get annoyed at all the video's on UA-cam trashing the 450L. I ride with lots of euro bike guys and don't have alot of trouble keeping up with them.