For more in depth info on how to make those sweet, sweet gain, can check out my books: Book 1: SWEAT (beginners/intermediates) www.verityfit.com/product-page/sweat Book 2: Ring Training For Hypertrophy (ring enthusiasts) www.verityfit.com/product-page/ring-training-for-hypertrophy Book 3: Resurrecting Your Gains (intermediates/advanced lifters) www.verityfit.com/product-page/resurrecting-your-gains-finding-your-muscle-growth-formula Can check the site for full Tables Of Contents of each book. Appreciate the support!
@@TiagoSilva-ub8dv I can't set up a biz account unfortunately which is what is needed, if you want you can email me (it's in the description) and I can send you the email I use for paypal, some people who didn't want to use a credit card have paid for the books that way. The paypal email is a different one from the email in the description, to be doubly clear, so don't send it there!
I have a bit of a more controversial oppinion when it comes to lifting,putting on strength and muscle,just pick up a workout routine,eat healthy,sleep as much as your body requires and give every muscle 72-96h of rest,take a deload week every 4-5 weeks and you will grow(as much as your genetics allow you to😅not as much as you might want to),there's no big "secret" to this sht,like bros used to say,the way you look is mainly determined by genetics,and they were 100% f'cking right
The larger issue is that we overcomplicate training in general. If you lift the weight, eat, drink, and sleep, you've done about 95% of what you can do. It's just a matter of doing it consistently over a very long period of time. But people like to discuss things, watch videos about it, read articles, etc. So we focus on a bunch of more interesting things that barely move the needle. It's the exact same with every hobby. Lawncare: the grass needs sunlight, water, air (mostly CO2) , and tiny amounts of nutrients in the soil to grow. Most of that is provided by Mother Nature, and what isn't can be explained in a paragraph. That doesn't stop there being countless lawncare channels collectively getting millions of views a week talking about silly stuff like "biochar."
I agree but I also believe that after a certain level organizing a good roster of lifts will take you further into the gains, as long as you practice a little more than theorize what to practice you'll be good.
@@irfuel im on the cusp of intermediate after 3 years of training, 2 years at a gym, seen like 200 people in that time who come for like 2-4 months and leave eventually, mostly afternew years and during summer
Lol I can see it now another Frenchman who travels across the world to different gyms and tells people they don't understand proper programming for bodybuilding 😂
'ello Yootoob. Today I'm going around Malaysia to find the biggest ahms. What is ahms you say? I am talking about the limbs connected to the shoulders you eediot.
@@prins424 'Power Shrugs' .. Cheat form with a shit ton of weight. Or 'Rack Pulls Above the Knee' .. old-school 'Alpha Destiny' / Eric Bugenhagen style. My traps look roided asf because of this. I worked up to an 800lbs rack hold and my traps exploded over the years 💪🏼
@@razvanmate5886 yeah i use straps and a belt and by the last few reps im hitching it up using some leg drive. I try to get a full stretch at the bottom as well
in my experience you want to go heavy but still want to be able to contract and squeeze the weight at the top, the stretch does seem to be most important but the squeeze definitely adds some sauce on top.
The thing about science, is it's always behind (in regards to training). People figure stuff out on their own, get their circle to try it, and it grows out from there. By the time it's popular enough to get studied, it's already existed for a decade or 2.
Well science is usually just observing and studying and finding out what works, so what works will already be working, and ofc the things that dont, wont.
@@bradturner7678 This is a fair deal more true of exercise science because it is in its infancy as a field (not a dig at the field, it's objectively newer and is growing rapidly). Often in medicine, doctors are providing care which does work, but is often several years behind the best available evidence. Of course one major factor is "just winging it" is a fair deal more acceptable in the gym with one's own body than in medicinal practice/clinical exercise trials with other folks' bodies (in the modern era, historically it's a shit show). This leads a lot of (albeit not well controlled) experimentation from the bros, lots of things work, not everything works as well. That said, I think we would be wise to try and think of experienced lifters/coaches as field researchers if they are rigorous in the craft and curious. Some of what might be labeled as broscience might not be great general advice, but works amazing for some people and even in those cases it's worth trying to figure out not just "if" but "why".
The same exercises and methods that worked in the 40s and 50s still work today, those fellas spent the time in the gym and experience taught them how to train successfully , ignore the science geeks , do the basics , progressively overload , eat properly and there you have 90% of everything you need for positive training results.
When you can’t explain something even using the most basic anatomy and logic then you have accept that your bro science is still wrong. ‘Oh but I observed it’ - yeah ok, bro…
im 65 yrs,training since 1982. everything ‘science’has come up with and put a name on we been doing for decades. Only time guy’s did BRO splits was for maintenance. We did deadlifts for mass,we pushed our sets to almost failure,we used ‘ooomph’on heavy compounds. No one moves a REFRIGERATOR in slow motion🏋🏽
I used to be averse to cheat reps, but I’ve changed my mind on them over time. Definitely can be helpful to eek out an extra very hard rep or two as a way of adding further overload to drive muscle growth. I don’t recommend it on every exercise (definitely not compounds like squats or deadlifts), but most isolation exercises are safe for a couple cheat reps here or there.
Agreed. I think it got a bad rap from people ego lifting and cheating on every rep. It like anything else is a tool that can be useful in certain circumstances.
I agree. I used to be vehemently against them, but they really help on exercises where you fail most in the bottom portion of a rep due to the resistance curve. I feel like true failure is best at the mid range of an exercises resistance curve, most machines are set up to make this the case. In a DB bench I might fail a rep, but I feel like there is still more left in my chest by about another 1-3 reps.
Even Mr. Nipples himself has introduced Nerd Jeff to complement (though probably not compliment) Bro Jeff. Good addition and a sign of the new times. Incidentally Bro Jeff is a genius device from the OG production values king. When scrolling through videos it is really helpful to have an instant visual indication that the "wrong" form is being modeled in that part. I'm surprised it hasn't been copied.
@@TypicallyUniqueOfficial It was always suspicious that so many exercises use "internal momentum" to help get past a sticking point but "external momentum" was the devil itself, a completely illegitimate way to finesse the difficulty curve, out of the question, and would cause your gains to melt away and put you in the hospital with injury. It even came with moral scolding--a lot of it. Weird stuff. People drag Coach Greg for taking slogans and baby instructions that are probably good messaging for most noobs (like "train harder than last time") and abusing their applicability and sticking to his guns about that no matter what until it is clearly counterproductive in a context and he looks like an idiot. But it's really just an exaggerated version of what people have always been doing when they popularize science.
The regional hypertrophy has been the most interesting one imo. Solid take. Definitely something I’ve changed my mind on quite a bit, especially after learning more about muscle anatomy, it’s weird to think a lot of us kinda blindly brushed off the concept of regional hypertrophy/biasing
@Keskokesko21 Andy Galpin has a great explanation of fiber lengthening. Best part about it too is that lengthed muscles simply look thicker because they're still connected to the same origin points.
This is super evident in the armwrestling world. Armwrestlers do very specific ranges of motion that best mimic armwrestling itself. You go on their channels, and you'll invariably see people telling them they're idiots and not doing the exercises right. Then, you see them absolutely destroying people literally 100# more than them on the armwrestling table. This is more of a strength thing than a hypertrophy thing, but same concept.
@@GVSI've noticed lengthening and thickening of my non dominant bicep, particularly the short head, from switching most of my curls to stretch-biased curls (incline curls and bayesian cable curls, mostly). The pec regional hypertrophy thing was always really irritating, meaning when the minimalist crowd was saying all pec movements were equal. It was so easily proven wrong.
Excellent video! Lots of nuanced wisdom here. I 100% agree with your points here, especially regarding shorter rep ranges, intensity, time under tension etc. I’ve seen it time and again and for hypertrophy, these techniques work! To use more “bro science” I think this is good for “sarcoplasmic” hypertrophy. In other words, by creating a kind of occlusion I think you encourage metabolic stress and trigger hypertrophy that way. For aesthetics, this is desirable. But for performance it always gets a bad rap unfairly - this is building strength endurance which is a really useful trait. I also think this helps with angiogenesis and increasing blood flow for more recovery and a host of other useful adaptations. I grew my pecs with super high rep push ups performed with a really short range of motion. I built biceps with huge mechanical drop sets of curls, hammer curls, and “cheat” hammer curls. Bodybuilders train the way they do for a reason. And, sure, they use steroids. But they’re not aliens - it’s still somewhat relevant to us! If you’re feeling really masochistic try burns - complete the set to failure. Do your drop sets or whatever. Then just continue to put out reps using whatever range of motion is left. If that means you barely move, that’s what you do. It’s killer! That said, for well rounded performance and health I think you do still need controlled range of motion and that stuff, too. But there are ways to combine both!
I think one of the biggest pitfalls with not-bro science is that there is a temptation to stop when form begins to breakdown. Even if you have to cheat a little bit or catch your breath, pushing yourself to do those extra reps will help you achieve more volume than the previous week with the selected muscle. The bros aren’t afraid to look dumb if it means pushing harder
Bro science relies on survivorship bias. For every gymbro getting big without knowledge or technique, there a couple others dropping out from burnout or even injury cause they're making uninformed mistakes. Weightlifting science is making sure everyone has a shot at developing muscles in a relatively predictable and safe manner.
I started my lifting career with bro science lifting and man I wished I stayed with that. I didnt have injuries, I looked good and I actually grew muscles. what changed was thinking it was dumb after reading all the other supposed "science" explaining why it was wrong. Ive been back on the bro sauce since the beginning of the year after wondering off for almost a decade and it feels good to be there again. Ive also picked up more muscle mass in the pas 6months than I have in the past 6 years. and def add running or some endurance element. you wont loose gains at all
After a couple years of lifting I focused more on just muscling up weight over perfect technique since perfect technique isn't universal and the body usually knows the best way to move weight. This helped me get much stronger. Ofc there are exceptions like dont let your technique fully breakdown
Yes, "perfect" technique is not needed, and perhaps not even possible. However, often the body wants to take the easiest way from a to b, i.e. excessive cheat reps in all the wrong, unstimulatory ways. You should make lifts harder, not easier (like the body wants to).
@@FriedZime And that's how body creates the maximal force. May be, just may be you want to actually up the load instead making the movement inefficient...
@@roderickclerk5904 What did you do for that? I'm currently doing zenith rotations, the one-sided rotation thing by the wall, I-Y-T (on bench), and shoulder rolls in quadrupled position (ala Tom Morrison). It seems to help over time (started a month ago). But just wondering. I was out Jan - May, but returned to lifting June (fortunately no back/shoulder tears), but even pull-ups and push-ups aren't doable rn. (Context: I did too much volume later in the day Jan 12 ? - Pull-ups/db bench, dips/db row, lateral raise, barbell row, pulldown, pullovers. Pullovers got me, but was with 2 dbs [only 10 lb each] - they were fine on days without that much volume or lack of rest (which was a dumb thing to do, I know). If there was a tear, it healed cuz nothing showed up on MRI months later. I did use hot and cold (heat on elbows). I can tell I got my elbows (distal triceps tendon) even though they weren't scanned. But light pushdowns are helping that. I don't doubt I might start back lifting next month or longer if I have to (I stopped to work on these things first), but my scapula mobility and such needs more work. My back, chest, and forearms are weak. I worked out (espec. back) a bit over a year total , but I know keeping it simple with cable rows, bench dips (when I get to multi-joint triceps stuff after tendon load tolerance improves), ntr. pulldown, pushdowns, cable military press, and bench wrist extensions & curls will help (forearms are done on lower day). I should've started cable rows (it's on the Ultimate Bowflex) much sooner (my dumbbells at home are limited). I know this is a massive wall of text (hopefully that's alright), but brevity's not my strong suit.
@@roderickclerk5904 I use to do the Tom Merrick "15 min shoulder follow along" or whatever it's called, but now it's the aforementioned stuff. I can tell on the Zenith rotations my left shoulder blade rotation is worse. But neither are good.
Definitely agree on deadlifts being good for building your back. I cannot overstate how much I feel my back when I do my absolute best to maintain perfect form even when I'm shaking on the last 2 or 3 reps .
@@irfuelYou've just explained why it isn't one of the best back builders right there. It hits too much and nothing is isolated. You can obviously make good gains but it takes a lot of effort to get to that point and there are better less fatiguing options that you can also hit with higher frequency. Just my opinion and my gains skyrocketed when I followed that approach and I could pull 5 plates for 10 reps. Just didn't really see much in the way of gains(at least at the level I expected)
@@irfuelExactly. Do your compounds and then isolate the muscles you care most about. I don't want to do trap isolation, hamstring isolation, spinal erector isolation and so on.
A lot of the strongest and biggest guys in my gym are complete bros and they arent all juiced. Theres a dude who can rep 5 plates whos an absolute bench bro with a 225 squat. Hes just got abnormally short arms lmao. He literally just benches and does pullups. I talked to him and he didnt even know what periodisation was. Im convinced you can just unga bunga the weights and get strong if you eat well and are consistent
this type of refreshing honesty about what you may have been wrong about in the past is genuinely impressive, my friend.. and speaks to your character. appreciated.
"You're welcome" - The bros We were really just going off of feeling. Things other people were suggesting, I just wasn't feeling it where I felt like I should be feeling it. It's hard to explain until you experience it for yourself. Also, the mirror never lies, the mirror is your judge.
This just begs one question for me: have we really gained a significant amount of knowledge compared to the guys back in the day? Has "science" really brought anything new to the table? The popular narrative in bodybuilding these days is that we know so much more now, but is that actually true? Personally, I think it's just that knowledge is easier to access (but so is a load of nonsense), and when I hear, for instance, Arnold talking about bodybuilding during his prime, it seems like he pretty much knew everything that we're talking about today.
Remember: “periodization,” “proper programming,” “RIR,” “Myo-reps,” “lengthened partials,” “feeder sets,” “back-off sets (these are ok),” etc,… So, don’t you dare pick up that dumbbell without having learned all this first!
I can't believe that you are saying these things. Im impressed. You are crapping on a lot of your own research. That takes balls. I never thought you would do it.
The partial reps in the hardest position is definitely valid. “Constant tension” is a very real thing many lifters have thrown to the way side. I agree that it should be called time under effort. You can actually grow muscle not even moving. By using yielding isometrics in the hardest position of the exercises and doing it until your muscles reach failure. To simplify it, as long as you’re tiring out the muscle fibers and reaching failure it doesn’t matter what you do. You could do isometrics, partials, slow reps fast reps, and as long as you reach failure you will grow.
This video was really interesting as it seems we've come full circle. You've really thickened up bro. I'm gonna get my overweight ass off the couch today and get to the gym. Thanks.
Great video man! Having spent a bunch of years attending fitness conferences, it was always fascinating to see how the actual exercise science researchers I've met were far more nuanced and less dogmatic about their findings compared to the average person who spends their days consuming "backed by science" fitness content.
Oh I always used the pec deck for the inner chest and I had to do incline for the upper chest, flat or a slight decline for the mid chest and a dip to hit the lower chest.
I always thought it was obvious. If one part of the muscle can get sore and the other part not sore at all, then surely the part that got sore was stressed more and if the same movement that caused that is repeated over time, will grow more. My "outer" chest is a bit sore right now, and inner not at all.
Thanks for making this video. While there's always room for science, I started training in the early 90s, where everything was bro science, and I've never abandoned it. I've always argued, "How can you tell me I'm wrong if I'm growing?"
@@madams989 Treating exercise science like it's gospel is honestly laughable, I could find a paper to support any claim I want. I'm not going to take a field that suffers from the replication crisis and contains extremely contradicting studies seriously. There's a reason that it's not considered a "hard science". Once you start actually lifting according to what feels good and stop relying on flawed EMG studies, you're going to stop being a DYEL.
@@madams989 In the future maybe but bodybuilding science is still in it's infancy. Most of the studies are on small groups of often untrained people, the results are often contradictory with other studies. Some of the apparatus used has since been discredited (EMG for example). Some of the methods used are questionable and it is impossible to control factors which affect the results outside of the experiment itself. Imagine Galileo trying to work out the size of the Universe with his telescope - that's where we are with bodybuilding science today.
@@madams989you know what means when a lot of ppl do different things but obtain results in the end? That means the subject is more simple than you think. Move weights, or you own body weight enought and you will create muscle. Simple as.
@@Ahrone1586 silly comment. if we can improve our training towards optimal and be more efficient with things, starting with cutting out bro science, then we’d all do even better.
hey man, I found your content through Alex Leonids and im so thankful i found you. you share lots of REAL WORLD weightlighting knowledge that i can apply to my training. keep up the amazing work.
rep ranges was easily the biggest thing bros got right. The 8-12 rep range for hyperthrophy and 1-5 for strength is exactly what bros were preaching 20 years ago and it's comproved by science.
Depends on the exercise. I think most would agree they can do a set of 30 with weighted push ups but you can’t do 30 reps of an OHP. For me I think dumbbell benching has to be on the lower side unless do down sets. I can’t reach muscular failure on it without going heavy because holding dumbbells requires more grip strength. If I go too high I’m always failing because my grip is loosening. You might say just increase grip strength but that’s just gonna increase the weight the same way grip has you failing prematurely on RDLs but at least with that you can either use straps or better yet do good mornings
@@KurokamiNajimirdls, rows, and shrugs… yeah you need straps but loose grip during db bench? Thats a new one you grip shouldnt be that weak that you cant “balance” dbs youre not even holding them lol. Also what does rep range matter here if grip was an actual factor it should fail before chest failure no matter the rep range. The only thing that makes high rep sets harder is stamina and that can br brought up to speed fairly quickly. I dont recommend doing high reps always becomes they can accumulate unnecessary fatigue but using them from time to time is a great way for training in a diffrent way and that could make your muscles adapt differently in a positive way
@@omarosama155Usually the higher the rep count, the harder it is to grip, for me anyways. When my grip was weaker, I failed bodyweight pull ups because of grip strength, but I didn't fail weighted pull ups because of grip strength.
I know one such bro at my gym, he’s very big and very strong but doesn’t really articulate programming or training philosophy the way I do at all. He has an odd type of training intelligence, I always learn something when I train with him. (When everyone was bashing the v bar he said “I feel my lats” and showed me how to use it right and the v bar pulldown is now my absolute favorite pulldown variation)
you are a bro yourself too because there is no such thing as science for strength training. IT is nothing more than a shallow empty belief system for people who dont know stuff and lack experience. That training buddy learning you stuff obviously is less bro than you; that is why he teaches you because being less bro he has experience and knowledge about the body. Also genetics and range of motion are different for people, many races and mixes nowadays so nothing is the same starting from dieets. You can only learn your body while working it... only using your ego reading some bro-science on the internet shouting about full rom only keeps you low iq.
"odd type of training intelligence" well this is a state being more intelligent; so how is this odd? Being able to feel your muscles is the base key in this kind of training; you cant read about this. Only low iq folk think reading is better than feeling. just by feeling my muscles using "broscience"I gained 25kg lean free mass in 1 year naturally.... simple biology. I never follow anyone, I beat them
excellent video Geoffrey! I feel ike we're at a point where the fitness community is learning how to combine the science and practical aspect of everything together to improve training quality
I agree about thing #11. Effort is mainly what I see sets apart the bros in my gym vs the technique sticklers or optimal program guys. And that's something that can be hard to teach to some people.
On the part for pump: as you said, if you incorporate a exercise and you feel a pump in the area you want to work its a indication that its working. Some with getting sore, did AD Press for the first time with full ROM and my front/side delts were never this sore. Pump/Soreness istn an indicator for muscle growth per se, but it can be useful to determine if it works the muscles/area you want to work. Appreciate the good content Geoff, looking absolutely huge💪
After near a decade in the gym, obsessing over this thing, I've given up on exercise science... Consistency, progressive overload and intensity are all that's required, everything else in BS nuance that does little but confusing people into paralysis by analysis. Just do whatever is fun man, as long as theres potential for progressive overload, you do it consiatently and it's hard, thats it.
Just do what classic bodybuilders did, they had all the tenets, and they trained a lot before juicing, today ppl rely more on their juice than the technique
It is the onnly way in using your own senses isnt it? I mean school is for the low iq followers who dont have capabilities in finding out anture themselves; its called the new church for religious beta nerds who are born weak
Building muscle has many paths. There is no optimal way. Everyone is gonna build muscle. There is no point in fighting over which path is better. If u r a natural then try every path. Only a sith deals in Absolutes.
I’ve always believed in keeping the tension and not locking out or dropping at the bottom of the rep. Like stretching a rubber band, don’t let it loose or completely tight. Also targeting different parts of the body’s definitely real too, you can literally sculpt your body and pick which parts to grow. Not into deadlifts though, seated rows are the way forward
The most jacked guy in the gym is a full bro and trains with "bad form" as he does not do full contraction. Basically he uses very heavy weights and does lengthed partials lol But his consistency and diet also sets him apart.
regional hypertophy is one thing i myself observed on my biceps. i swear i had this small doubt in my mind, "soreness is more at the end, is my lower bicep is bigger & stronger "
Bro that Lateral Raises Set that you did 😮💨😁 I was thinking okay he will do another one another one …another one another one another one another one another one another one another one DJ Goeff with another one Fun aside this was very cool to see how you pushed through ❤
I've been watching fitnes youtube videos (and training myself for almost 30 years) and i have come to the conclusion that experience almost always trumps the newest study. tl:dr getting big is not rocket science, even though fitness "science" youtubers want you to believe otherwise. It has taken me almost 20 years to allow myself to listen to the bros, because i had the firm belief that without a high frequency workout (every muscle at least 2x per week) i will loose muscle mass. BUT a couple of years ago i had to pause due to a injury. After a month of no training at all, i was stronger than i was ever before, to my own surprise. The constant fatigue i felt for years was gone and after i switched from my Full Body (3x per week) to a 4split (every Muscle once per week), i had much (MUCH!) more energy even after 2 months of constantly working out without a deload week. The thing about our sport is, the most important source of information is your own body. YOUR experience tops every obscure study. Every f ing time, guaranteed! The thing about "science" youtubers is, they think they can do a an infinite amount of videos about every new study and people will jump on it every time.
I just finished listening to the Iron Culture Podcast ep. 229 with Zourdos on failure. The take away is that the science bros are so confused they can’t tell us much if anything. Effective Reps (Beardsley model) with progressive overload seems to be the only thing that 99% of people need to worry about.
Bro split works because you ARE training your muscles 1x per week. When you’re deadlifting on your back days, close grip bench and chin ups on arm days, & sprinkling in some calves on shoulder day, then you’ll see that you ARE training each muscle multiple times a week
when you hit the shoulders, it also hits the chest, back and traps. When doing arm, also, if you use dips, close grip bench and chin ups. The only thing bro really only trains once is his legs, but this can easily be fixed with deadlifts or stiffs on back day, or even doing leg presses after a chest workout
The official name for a partial done through the mid range of a lift is a “Lenny rep” - invented by and named after Big Lenny from the Delray misfits, the one and only 700 lbs ripped freak of all freaks. He figured out decades ago full range is stupid and keeping heavy tension on the muscle is what counts. What do you think about that Dr. Mike Israetel?
He's very reasonable. All of the "science guys" I follow and respect (Helms, Biolayne, Nippard, Menno, etc) all actually lift and have good takes overall. They combine the science with experience which really is essential. It's the guys who maybe haven't really put in a lot of time under the iron and are leveraging science as the biggest part of their brand, often by over extrapolating studies, that I have issue with.
always follows the sciences guys they been through research papers studies and actual reality experiences they really skip the bullshit and spit out the harsh brutal truth to build muscles and strength 🔱🔱
@@GVS 100% agree. Btw good video geoff, I've been watching your channel from some months now and really binging it and enjoying. I would also recommend everyone watching mountaindog1 (John Meadows) R.I.P. Since I do believe, he was the best knowledge of "bro science" in a good way ofcourse and even Nippard used several exercises and strategies advocted by john in his latest programs.
one thing I've learned as a 30 y/o on this spinning rock, is that practitioners tend to be smarter and better at their craft than intellectuals want to give them credit for. even if they don't sound educated. in fact I tend to veer away from people who talk in a overly - complicated manner.
I think is kind of a bad take. Good scientists always acknowledge the limitations of the literature, and a good practitioner should think like a scientist. The problem is, a lot of the science communicators on UA-cam are far too pedantic or don't actually understand the science. Jeff Nippard is a good example, he's just a bro bodybuilder who has other people tell him the research which he presents on his channel, he's not a scientist. He's not like Dr. Mike, who is an actual PhD and also a bodybuilder who can look at the research as a whole, the limitations, and applicability. It's the same in any scientific field. The scientific method is still valid, it's the lack of being able to critically appraise research that leads to the problems. There are so many limitations to exercise science research when compared to something like, say, medical research. Poor funding leading to short term studies with small sample sizes based on volunteer college males who have less than 2 years serious lifting experience. And there are so many confounding variables that can't be controlled, not to mention they often examine single joint movements because it's easier to measure an effect. A lot of the lengthened partials research was done on the calves!
@@DCJayhawk57 what I was referring to was in my own life people who always have a lot to say are often times not qualified to do so. i've successfully competed in a lot of stuff and people love to preach about things being "objectively bad" because of some incomplete theory they have about a topic. i don't think you're wrong but you really didn't get the gist of my statement. although for clarity i couldve used said pseudo intellectuals instead
Hi Geoffrey I’ve been following your channel for a while now and it’s good to see your physique really starting to fill out and come into it’s own, and also 25kg seated dumbbell curls is just crazy strong! Keep at it brother you’re an inspiration to me and a lot of other lifters.
Are you saying that the people whose job it is to grow muscle know more about growing muscle than nerds who can’t bicep curl a dumbbell with their age on it? Man who would’ve guessed
I think that at least with the current development of science, it is impossible to have a "lifting science" as in the most part, we can't control the variables that occur with each individual, and most current theories don't conduce to predictable outcomes. What I believe is that we can have a "scientific attitude" towards the gym, as many other disciplines like psychoanalysis do, were we can use some elements of science to help us understand what we are doing, but at the same time recognizing the limitations that we have and the value of empiric knowledge passed by almost like tradition.
Weighted stretch, yo. It's been the weighted stretch all along on most exercises, and movements that make the bottom portion the hardest. This is why cheat rows and shrugs are valuable, they fix the strength curve which is usually harder at the top and make it so it's harder at the bottom.
it's always not the concept itself , but people taking the concept and RUNNING with it a bit too much or apply it wrong .. 1:Partials are fine , but people either applying it to the wrong exercise or just cutting out hardest ROM not the easiest ! 2:Regional hypertrophy , Coaches running with it and having beginners who can't even Squat right worry about their outer sweep and which foot placement on the Leg press ..... dude ! build a base of Quad mass overall first then worry about sculpting 3:One time a week Frequency is not a Bro-split , a Bro split done right is completely fine (which Steve show done one before) , but a Bro-split where it's 10 exercises for the chest in one day and 20+ reps with only cables and "burning" the muscle and only trains "One muscle only" , and having an Arm day where they do 30 exercise of curling only .. that's a PED-BS Split imo .. 4:Deadlifts are amazing as an overall stimulus and amazing for mid/lower traps too , but people again running with it saying u ONLY need Deadlifts for bigger back whether it's lats/traps .. 5:SFR , it's really valuable and initiative , u know after training BB Squats + RDL's u'll have to pick an easier movement that have a good SFR if u wanna keep training to manage fatigue , but that's only useful IF u have accumulated fatigue in the first place , if u only do Leg extension what are u recovering from exactly ?! .. 7:Again people are extremist , either they do a Robot-like Rows and call everyone else Ego lifter , or they basically be doing Deadlift Row So on and so forth on every point , that's usually what happens people either are extremists or they apply the advice in the wrong place or at the wrong time ...
i agree with you on every point. Especially the bro split and ROM one, people just take the easy way out. It is just human brain tendency to do that. They bend the reasoning as per their will. I have seen some guys in my gym who cut out the bottom ROM in bench press and Lat pull down completely. They have been working out for years but they lift the same weight as they did in their first 3 month. A basic gym bro doesn't know how to do squats,OHP, barbell rows and forget aBOUT DEADLIFT. They just jerk their ego on deadlift. The only reason they don't injure their back on deadlift is because they have been training for years yet they lift the same amount of weight as a teenager in his 4 month of training. And not to forget about that they typically can afford supplements`.
@@nooblifter390 here they'll be lifting more weight and bragging about it actually while they only do top half Bench and having their buddy helping as well... Like there's this UA-camr i don't remember his name where he actually cut the top range of the Bench and only do the bottom range , yes this is way harder and could be even better in many situations .. that's a useful partials .. but not the other BS where they cut the hard part .. i was teaching a friend of mine how to Squat ATG in the beginning using Goblet squat elevated heel and going ATG , just to get used to the movement ... and this Coach came and told him in front of me : "Oh no what are u doing , u gonna destroy your knees in the long run" my friend who know nothing about lifting said : "i don't actually feel any pain it feel good" and he said : "No , u won't feel it now , but maybe at the end of the training cycle" i was like where in the hell did u get that date from haha "at the end of the cycle" lmao ... and ofc afterward i noticed him trains and go figure .. "he only do half reps squats on machines and doesn't go to 90 degrees even" and bragging about using a bunch of weight on the Leg press when i am sure he can't even preform a normal BB Squat right ... and actually coaching people to not go below 90 degrees on any OHP or Bench too so people won't only choose what's easy , no they'll also try to convince others that they should do the same , not because they avoid what's hard no because what's hard is actually bad and gonna hurt u .. and then they'll feel better about themselves ..
A lot of good points here, but mostly I respect your priority on calling out your own areas of growth and changes opinions. You’re one of the best sources for exercise related material on UA-cam, man. Keep it up.
After discovering science based fitness I learned that the most optimal way is to eat protein powder pancakes with artificial sweeteners and wash it down with a Diet Coke, and use a training routine where you purposely leave reps in the tank. And here I was with my Neanderthal plan of eating whole unprocessed foods and training hard. I feel like such a bonehead !
With the deadlift i immediately knew it was great for back thickness and development. I ALWAYS get sore lats and traps. As long as you properly pull and KEEP the bar close to the body, it will rival pullups when it comes to DOMS. And i am a heavy mofo, so my pullups already are brutal.
It will rival pullups in terms of DOMS, but not even close for lat/upper back development as the weighted pullup. One of the reasons I stopped doing the conventional deadlift after 5 plates. Same gains from good mornings, hypers, squats and without the high fatigue.
I read Michael Matthew's book Bigger. Leaner, Stronger...back in 2018 and did his program which is basically a bro split...and not only did I get jacked as fuck, but I increased my weak ass deadlift from 275 to 500 within a matter of months, and my incline bench from 225x5 to 305x5. The program just focuses on progressive overload in the 4-6 rep range. I always see guys talking about how bro splits suck and high frequency is king, and I honestly have never given high frequency a chance (I plan to), but I always scratched my head because I always made great gains on bro splits
Is it possible both sides are right? Maybe when you have no muscle you need to do things one way, but when you have substantial muscle that is easy to feel you can work in a different way.
A lot of people don’t realize that bro splits will give just as good results as full body. Because in the long run, it’s not gonna matter what split you do. People need to look at the bigger picture and not focus on these stuff like what spilt is better and what exercise should I do and blah and blah lol. People are focusing on the tree instead of the forest. A guy who does a bro split for 5 to 7 years compared to a guy who does a full body for 5 to 7 years, as long as everything is dialed in aka progressive overload, consistency, good sleep, protein intake, etc they will both have very similar results in terms of muscle growth. Plus bro split has a lot of overlap where a lot of muscle groups are being hit twice a week. But me personally I do full body cause I like that the most out of all the splits. So really it comes down to preference…
So it looks like the reasoning and intent behind the approaches is more the problem than the methods themselves. I see a lot of bros do partials, but only with the top part (not the partials that include the lengthened/stretched portion) just to use more weight. This also goes hand in hand with a misunderstanding of TUT and some people gravitating towards lower reps (less than 8) solely to use weight that they should not be using.
From what I'm understanding, people are natural mimic-ers, we just do that like we learned from our parents peers etc while growing up. So young guys watching the bros mimic but don't have a reason why or don't know what specifically they're doing it for. You've come full circle and know and understand the reason why some of the bioscience reasoning now and how it can help you vs denouncing it because it isn't the science backed 100% correct way. This is because of your long journey though. It's like my wife and I say about our boys in life, we can tell them what's right and what to do but they have to learn for themselves, they have to fail to learn. Thank you for this video.
everybody is bro when there is no proper science. And yes using your own senses and notjuist some ego reading is the key; but this also applies for school aka church to keep your kids from gettnig brainwashed as small minded workers for the system
Agree with your position on half reps. But there are people who use that to avoid an issue like tendon weakness. Hear people say to "not go all the way down" on exercises like preacher curls because you might tear your bicep. Instead of lowering the weight and getting stronger in the stretched position, they half rep instead. Gotta have tour twndons get stronger as well for overall health, otherwise an injury occur in the future
Yesterday I saw some old guys doing tricep push downs and extensions like there was no tomorrow. Their arms specifically triceps were so huge compared to everything else it was funny and impressive.
Really enjoyed this one Geoffrey, by the sounds of it we've taken similar journeys with our relationship with hypertrophy science. Fascinating stuff, but ultimately I don't think it's unfair to say the field is still quite green.
When I started doing partials on lateral raises my shoulders grew a ton…so I believe there is definitely some truth to those lengthened partials being very stimulative
Great video, it has definitely been interesting to see how the science has shifted during the last 2 years or so to basically "making sense" of almost all of the things the "bros" have been doing for decades. The ending really is the bottom line; both sides can definitely learn from each other.
2:58 I do barbell bulgarian split squats as my primary exercise and I noticed that my quads were shaped differently on each leg. On my right leg, I tended to place weight on the inside of my foot but on my left leg I placed weight on the outside edge. Completely changes the shape of the quads. They can both do the same weight, but they do it slightly differently.
Squats made my back way thicker. Just holding 350+ pounds on the bar and coming out of the squat really worked my back. I did pull downs, after not doing them for months, and could pull more.
I think one caveat to exercise order is limb ratios. For example, if someone has long legs, doing barbell back squats first will likely not push the quads near failure, and the failure will likely come from erector endurance, glutes, adductors etc. so for someone trying to SPECIFICALLY pick up a lagging set of quads, they might want to train leg extensions or sissy squats BEFORE barbell back squat for this reason so as to pre exhaust the muscle. However, MOST people will not have this issue and should indeed do their compounds before the isolation.
I think a good idea after this video, is a whole workout in the gym explaining your current method vs Bros since in this video, but in a more practical way including comparing PLUS your overall rating, and whether you will switch some of your exercises, rep ranges, etc to follow Bros or not. "If anyone up for this like so our dear GVS can see it"
My biggest gains were when I followed a bro division 4 days a week, I didn't have programmed exercises, I simply did what I felt like, testing to use the maximum load for 8-10 reps. As I started reading articles and watching videos about optimal frequency, deload, rpe, my gains were never the same, and now I suffer from joint pain. I'm finally getting back to my bro, yesterday I just did the back, doing all the exercises I wanted to, and I can barely move because of the pain now. I will divide my training into 1 - chest / Shoulders / Calves 2 - Back / forearms 3 - Cardio 4 - Legs 5 - Shoulder / Arms 6 - Cardio 7 - Pullups /Abs/ Sprints in the park
@@patrickjulius7352 I didn't, because my arms are my strong points, but if they were lagging, I would do some stimulation on those days, but something more pump style
Mind-muscle connection is a tricky one. Lots of people say they can't feel their lats in pull-ups, and yet we know that it is impossible to do a proper pullup without using the lats. I prefer to focus on good form, and the mind-muscle connection is just a bonus if/when it happens.
Well there's a difference between yanking your body up and using a lot of bicep, than using a proper shortented motion that activates and focuses on the lats more. If you do the latter properly, you should have huge thick lats. if not you're doing it wrong too. You're not supposed to go all the way up if your goal is to focus on the lats.
@@user-kg1od9es5d It's not possible to get yourself up with just biceps. They simply aren't strong enough, so the lats will always do the majority of the work.
It's also hard to tell even with all this science how effective it is to completely "feel" the lats when doing 40kg, versus not feeling them well but being able to rep out 70kg for example
Correct. Muscle muscle connection is hugely over rated. The heavier the lift, the less you’ll ‘feel’ your muscles. Take a bench press one rep max… the muscles are working the same, as if you didn’t a 100 rep max. 100 reps would burn like hell, one rep, you’d feel nothing.
The Bro Split did wonders for me in the past. I only trained 4 times a week, following this split: Back Rest Chest and Biceps Legs Rest Shoulders and Triceps Rest The thing is I was completely fresh every time and crushed it like a maniac in the gym. I don’t train like this anymore because it is not that fun anymore but looking back I think I made most of my gains on this “stupid” split.
Frankly if you are one of the people who can absolutely destroy yourself in the gym (do a ton of sets) and go hard like it sounds like we both went through, it works pretty great for a while. Until you get bored of it.
Just a quick comment on the frequency topic. My current routine often has me training a muscle 3x a week at the beginning of a meso, and, if it's a weak point, up to 5x a week. The overall training volume doesn't even exceed 20 sets, but I can tell you it's been a lot more effective for me compared to when I did a strict PPL or U/L split. This is especially true for the smaller muscles like biceps. I think work quality has a lot to do with it, and the frequent stimulus must also have an effect that we don't fully understand. The weekly training volume is the same or less than what I used to do, but my results are superior. I don't know if my training age is a factor, I'm advanced.
I feel like once I started transitioning more into "optimal... science based... meta analysis" type training, my progress has slowed or even reversed, and I just chalked it up to aging. I need to go back to being a big stupid animal in the gym again.
I swear to god, I have not been sore from lateral raises a single time when using strict form. Also, didn't feel like they contributed a lot. Started doing those failure reps I saw from you, and o boy do they feel good! First time in a long time actually having shoulder soreness was the day after them, they were kind of my buy in movement for lengthened partials. Thanks for your work and honest insights, appreciate it!
Supersetting them with heavy trap bar shrugs was a (painful) game changing. I'm not huge into hypertophy, more strength, but bigger muscles can be stronger muscles so I go for it some and good lord
John Meadows has some good videos on this. Do lighter weight for full ROM or only the upper half, where the muscles are weaker. Then grab heavier weights and do he bottom half ROM, where the muscles are stronger. I get great MMC from a machine. The key was doing 3-second negatives.
lengthened partials are not typically what you see bros doing. Partial reps are done to use more weight, lengthened partials, you're pretty much not going to get to load up on more weight, as you still max out the ROM on the hard part of the exercise. Israetel has a recent video on them.
Honestly I also used to preach frequency but now that I'm hitting my 3rd natural peak, after 6 years of constant 6 days a week, I'm starting to notice I only really progress like crazy or at all doing less sessions a week, so long as I'm properly allowing for recovery and nutrition. Both may work but I think it depend on many other various factors
This was a thing I was thinking about after some Mike isratel vids where he's suuuuuuper anal about form, to the point where he got a bodybuilder woman doing 10lbs each side on a goodmorning (granted they were really slow) and a guy on steroids with a back as big as a door doing 135lb for bent over rows for 15 reps. He made it out to be that those quality reps would actually to as good of growth, maybe more but I just kept scratching my head, like is it really productive for a guy who has clearly built his back from much much much more load to go back to 135lb even if he reaches close to failiure? Theres probably value in cleaning up form overtime with lighter weight but I just couldn't see it on a guy that has all the muscle on my body on just his back
why scratch your head if you can clearly feel this after testing and trying? The fact you dont have muscle stating his back has the same amount as you totally have answers your question; you dont know stuff because you dont try but think. I always look smiling at the smaller guys lifting more or as much as me but with a weak intensity. Lower your weight will create more intensity; and if not there is something wrong with the connection from your brain to your muscles.
@@zengerz I'd say I have a decent bit of muscle, around 16 inch arms, that sort of thing and have experimented a ton, it's jus the dude was genuinely humungous, most likely on roids. it's more the question of how applicable stuff like this is to people normally. If 135 makes someone that big fail and they probably built their back off of 300lbs, 400lbs and probably controlled beforehand with stuff like machines, how does one start doing that approach just the bar for a year? Then 25lbs each side the years after? It's jus something that gets me curious, especially with research suggesting the weighted stretch is more important
@@loovlehcuppatea2830 ahaa, well uhmmm using your brain focus as an extra tool for intensity you should have the capability of making your time under tension a lot harder. If you pick too much weight then this takes away room for focus and thus intensity, also you posibly shorten the overal time under tension towards the end, but can extend it with some dropsets. Just by using my focus and brain I can make 10kg feel like 15 or 20 and I think a lot of gains are made there as this connection provides oppurtunity to grow without having the need for heavy weights thus making you able to go beyond those limits. I can build my quads and hamstrings easy with half rom squats, but this wont activate hip rotation keeping this part too weak and not active enough. This could create imbalances over time and the smaller muscles in your hip and glutes will keep weak. So once when you take less weight and start to exercise full rom you actually train these weak muscles, using them and being untrained end up early fatiguesd with this less weight. Muscle size and muscle weight does not mean anything, its all about the dynamics nobody can measure or translate into linear understandings for a 100% Also science + research in area's like fitness, food etc are all BROSCIENCE. read it, then perfrom science on such statements yourself using your own feelings and connection. Using my feelings and never following anything I grow 25kg lean mass in 1 year naturally on pure common sense and biology. Science is becoming too much of a non grounded religion!!!!!!!!!!!
your body, your anatomy and your feelings are every day a different tool and guidence. there is just too much influencers out there commercially driven, and also salesman who dont act like this... I mean: everywhere commercialism drives the product you will get shallow info and half baked nonsense. training is no rocket science since you can feel your every move ;)
For more in depth info on how to make those sweet, sweet gain, can check out my books:
Book 1: SWEAT (beginners/intermediates)
www.verityfit.com/product-page/sweat
Book 2: Ring Training For Hypertrophy (ring enthusiasts)
www.verityfit.com/product-page/ring-training-for-hypertrophy
Book 3: Resurrecting Your Gains (intermediates/advanced lifters)
www.verityfit.com/product-page/resurrecting-your-gains-finding-your-muscle-growth-formula
Can check the site for full Tables Of Contents of each book. Appreciate the support!
Hi Geoffrey, can you make paypal a possible payment method ?
@@TiagoSilva-ub8dvI dont think he can cause hes in china.
@@TiagoSilva-ub8dv I can't set up a biz account unfortunately which is what is needed, if you want you can email me (it's in the description) and I can send you the email I use for paypal, some people who didn't want to use a credit card have paid for the books that way.
The paypal email is a different one from the email in the description, to be doubly clear, so don't send it there!
I have a bit of a more controversial oppinion when it comes to lifting,putting on strength and muscle,just pick up a workout routine,eat healthy,sleep as much as your body requires and give every muscle 72-96h of rest,take a deload week every 4-5 weeks and you will grow(as much as your genetics allow you to😅not as much as you might want to),there's no big "secret" to this sht,like bros used to say,the way you look is mainly determined by genetics,and they were 100% f'cking right
Do you have a source for being able to work the ‘inner’ chest? Thanks
When you lift long enough to see yourself become the bro...
The cycle is complete
You either die a hero or become the villian
True bro, true
@@fauxbro1983you either die a bro become the villain 😂
You either die as a bro or see yourself becoming the Doom Slayer
The larger issue is that we overcomplicate training in general. If you lift the weight, eat, drink, and sleep, you've done about 95% of what you can do. It's just a matter of doing it consistently over a very long period of time. But people like to discuss things, watch videos about it, read articles, etc. So we focus on a bunch of more interesting things that barely move the needle.
It's the exact same with every hobby. Lawncare: the grass needs sunlight, water, air (mostly CO2) , and tiny amounts of nutrients in the soil to grow. Most of that is provided by Mother Nature, and what isn't can be explained in a paragraph. That doesn't stop there being countless lawncare channels collectively getting millions of views a week talking about silly stuff like "biochar."
I somewhat disagree. What takes you to intermediate isn’t what takes you advanced and what takes to that doesn’t get you elite and more elite
I agree but I also believe that after a certain level organizing a good roster of lifts will take you further into the gains, as long as you practice a little more than theorize what to practice you'll be good.
@@irfuel im on the cusp of intermediate after 3 years of training, 2 years at a gym, seen like 200 people in that time who come for like 2-4 months and leave eventually, mostly afternew years and during summer
I disagree. UA-cam has helped my lifting SO much. The info is what you choose to do with it.
Damn i would love some biochair in my garden
Regional Hypertrophy sounds like the channel name for Natural Hypertrophy's well traveled cousin.
Lol I can see it now another Frenchman who travels across the world to different gyms and tells people they don't understand proper programming for bodybuilding 😂
LOL
Lol
'ello Yootoob. Today I'm going around Malaysia to find the biggest ahms. What is ahms you say? I am talking about the limbs connected to the shoulders you eediot.
Started doing "ego" barbell shrugs and finally made trap gains. The bros were right all along
Can you describe the "ego" barbell shrug?
@@prins424probably using yor legs a little bit to get the weight up than controlling the ecentric
@@prins424 'Power Shrugs' .. Cheat form with a shit ton of weight. Or 'Rack Pulls Above the Knee' .. old-school 'Alpha Destiny' / Eric Bugenhagen style. My traps look roided asf because of this. I worked up to an 800lbs rack hold and my traps exploded over the years 💪🏼
@@razvanmate5886 yeah i use straps and a belt and by the last few reps im hitching it up using some leg drive. I try to get a full stretch at the bottom as well
in my experience you want to go heavy but still want to be able to contract and squeeze the weight at the top, the stretch does seem to be most important but the squeeze definitely adds some sauce on top.
The thing about science, is it's always behind (in regards to training). People figure stuff out on their own, get their circle to try it, and it grows out from there. By the time it's popular enough to get studied, it's already existed for a decade or 2.
Well science is usually just observing and studying and finding out what works, so what works will already be working, and ofc the things that dont, wont.
@@bradturner7678 This is a fair deal more true of exercise science because it is in its infancy as a field (not a dig at the field, it's objectively newer and is growing rapidly). Often in medicine, doctors are providing care which does work, but is often several years behind the best available evidence. Of course one major factor is "just winging it" is a fair deal more acceptable in the gym with one's own body than in medicinal practice/clinical exercise trials with other folks' bodies (in the modern era, historically it's a shit show).
This leads a lot of (albeit not well controlled) experimentation from the bros, lots of things work, not everything works as well. That said, I think we would be wise to try and think of experienced lifters/coaches as field researchers if they are rigorous in the craft and curious.
Some of what might be labeled as broscience might not be great general advice, but works amazing for some people and even in those cases it's worth trying to figure out not just "if" but "why".
The same exercises and methods that worked in the 40s and 50s still work today, those fellas spent the time in the gym and experience taught them how to train successfully , ignore the science geeks , do the basics , progressively overload , eat properly and there you have 90% of everything you need for positive training results.
Uhhmm excuse me you need to truest the experts bro
When you can’t explain something even using the most basic anatomy and logic then you have accept that your bro science is still wrong. ‘Oh but I observed it’ - yeah ok, bro…
im 65 yrs,training since 1982.
everything ‘science’has come up with and put a name on we been doing for decades.
Only time guy’s did BRO splits was for maintenance.
We did deadlifts for mass,we pushed our sets to almost failure,we used ‘ooomph’on heavy compounds.
No one moves a REFRIGERATOR in slow motion🏋🏽
whenever gravity and movement meets body is scared shitlessly of contusion
it limits maximum strength for own survival
I used to be averse to cheat reps, but I’ve changed my mind on them over time. Definitely can be helpful to eek out an extra very hard rep or two as a way of adding further overload to drive muscle growth. I don’t recommend it on every exercise (definitely not compounds like squats or deadlifts), but most isolation exercises are safe for a couple cheat reps here or there.
Agreed. I think it got a bad rap from people ego lifting and cheating on every rep. It like anything else is a tool that can be useful in certain circumstances.
I agree. I used to be vehemently against them, but they really help on exercises where you fail most in the bottom portion of a rep due to the resistance curve.
I feel like true failure is best at the mid range of an exercises resistance curve, most machines are set up to make this the case. In a DB bench I might fail a rep, but I feel like there is still more left in my chest by about another 1-3 reps.
Agree completely
Even Mr. Nipples himself has introduced Nerd Jeff to complement (though probably not compliment) Bro Jeff. Good addition and a sign of the new times.
Incidentally Bro Jeff is a genius device from the OG production values king. When scrolling through videos it is really helpful to have an instant visual indication that the "wrong" form is being modeled in that part. I'm surprised it hasn't been copied.
@@TypicallyUniqueOfficial It was always suspicious that so many exercises use "internal momentum" to help get past a sticking point but "external momentum" was the devil itself, a completely illegitimate way to finesse the difficulty curve, out of the question, and would cause your gains to melt away and put you in the hospital with injury. It even came with moral scolding--a lot of it. Weird stuff.
People drag Coach Greg for taking slogans and baby instructions that are probably good messaging for most noobs (like "train harder than last time") and abusing their applicability and sticking to his guns about that no matter what until it is clearly counterproductive in a context and he looks like an idiot. But it's really just an exaggerated version of what people have always been doing when they popularize science.
The regional hypertrophy has been the most interesting one imo. Solid take. Definitely something I’ve changed my mind on quite a bit, especially after learning more about muscle anatomy, it’s weird to think a lot of us kinda blindly brushed off the concept of regional hypertrophy/biasing
Yea it's super interesting. Definitely also another nail in the natural limit coffin, as it seems muscles can actually lengthen AND thicken over time.
@@GVS lengthen?
@Keskokesko21 Andy Galpin has a great explanation of fiber lengthening. Best part about it too is that lengthed muscles simply look thicker because they're still connected to the same origin points.
This is super evident in the armwrestling world. Armwrestlers do very specific ranges of motion that best mimic armwrestling itself. You go on their channels, and you'll invariably see people telling them they're idiots and not doing the exercises right. Then, you see them absolutely destroying people literally 100# more than them on the armwrestling table.
This is more of a strength thing than a hypertrophy thing, but same concept.
@@GVSI've noticed lengthening and thickening of my non dominant bicep, particularly the short head, from switching most of my curls to stretch-biased curls (incline curls and bayesian cable curls, mostly).
The pec regional hypertrophy thing was always really irritating, meaning when the minimalist crowd was saying all pec movements were equal. It was so easily proven wrong.
Excellent video! Lots of nuanced wisdom here. I 100% agree with your points here, especially regarding shorter rep ranges, intensity, time under tension etc. I’ve seen it time and again and for hypertrophy, these techniques work! To use more “bro science” I think this is good for “sarcoplasmic” hypertrophy. In other words, by creating a kind of occlusion I think you encourage metabolic stress and trigger hypertrophy that way. For aesthetics, this is desirable. But for performance it always gets a bad rap unfairly - this is building strength endurance which is a really useful trait. I also think this helps with angiogenesis and increasing blood flow for more recovery and a host of other useful adaptations. I grew my pecs with super high rep push ups performed with a really short range of motion. I built biceps with huge mechanical drop sets of curls, hammer curls, and “cheat” hammer curls.
Bodybuilders train the way they do for a reason. And, sure, they use steroids. But they’re not aliens - it’s still somewhat relevant to us!
If you’re feeling really masochistic try burns - complete the set to failure. Do your drop sets or whatever. Then just continue to put out reps using whatever range of motion is left. If that means you barely move, that’s what you do. It’s killer!
That said, for well rounded performance and health I think you do still need controlled range of motion and that stuff, too. But there are ways to combine both!
This video is ALL FACTS. The more I train like a bro, the more gains I see as I get older. All valid points man, great video
I think one of the biggest pitfalls with not-bro science is that there is a temptation to stop when form begins to breakdown. Even if you have to cheat a little bit or catch your breath, pushing yourself to do those extra reps will help you achieve more volume than the previous week with the selected muscle. The bros aren’t afraid to look dumb if it means pushing harder
Bro science relies on survivorship bias. For every gymbro getting big without knowledge or technique, there a couple others dropping out from burnout or even injury cause they're making uninformed mistakes. Weightlifting science is making sure everyone has a shot at developing muscles in a relatively predictable and safe manner.
I started my lifting career with bro science lifting and man I wished I stayed with that. I didnt have injuries, I looked good and I actually grew muscles. what changed was thinking it was dumb after reading all the other supposed "science" explaining why it was wrong. Ive been back on the bro sauce since the beginning of the year after wondering off for almost a decade and it feels good to be there again. Ive also picked up more muscle mass in the pas 6months than I have in the past 6 years. and def add running or some endurance element. you wont loose gains at all
while it was enough to read Menther book
After a couple years of lifting I focused more on just muscling up weight over perfect technique since perfect technique isn't universal and the body usually knows the best way to move weight. This helped me get much stronger. Ofc there are exceptions like dont let your technique fully breakdown
Yes, "perfect" technique is not needed, and perhaps not even possible. However, often the body wants to take the easiest way from a to b, i.e. excessive cheat reps in all the wrong, unstimulatory ways. You should make lifts harder, not easier (like the body wants to).
@@FriedZime I agree but when moving heavy weight, I argue that a little cheat is not a bad thing as long as you hit full rom
@@FriedZime And that's how body creates the maximal force. May be, just may be you want to actually up the load instead making the movement inefficient...
@@roderickclerk5904 What did you do for that? I'm currently doing zenith rotations, the one-sided rotation thing by the wall, I-Y-T (on bench), and shoulder rolls in quadrupled position (ala Tom Morrison).
It seems to help over time (started a month ago). But just wondering. I was out Jan - May, but returned to lifting June (fortunately no back/shoulder tears), but even pull-ups and push-ups aren't doable rn.
(Context: I did too much volume later in the day Jan 12 ? - Pull-ups/db bench, dips/db row, lateral raise, barbell row, pulldown, pullovers. Pullovers got me, but was with 2 dbs [only 10 lb each] - they were fine on days without that much volume or lack of rest (which was a dumb thing to do, I know). If there was a tear, it healed cuz nothing showed up on MRI months later. I did use hot and cold (heat on elbows). I can tell I got my elbows (distal triceps tendon) even though they weren't scanned. But light pushdowns are helping that.
I don't doubt I might start back lifting next month or longer if I have to (I stopped to work on these things first), but my scapula mobility and such needs more work. My back, chest, and forearms are weak.
I worked out (espec. back) a bit over a year total , but I know keeping it simple with cable rows, bench dips (when I get to multi-joint triceps stuff after tendon load tolerance improves), ntr. pulldown, pushdowns, cable military press, and bench wrist extensions & curls will help (forearms are done on lower day). I should've started cable rows (it's on the Ultimate Bowflex) much sooner (my dumbbells at home are limited).
I know this is a massive wall of text (hopefully that's alright), but brevity's not my strong suit.
@@roderickclerk5904 I use to do the Tom Merrick "15 min shoulder follow along" or whatever it's called, but now it's the aforementioned stuff. I can tell on the Zenith rotations my left shoulder blade rotation is worse. But neither are good.
Definitely agree on deadlifts being good for building your back. I cannot overstate how much I feel my back when I do my absolute best to maintain perfect form even when I'm shaking on the last 2 or 3 reps .
Definitely. Deadlifts, RDLs, snatch grip deads. They all smoke the whole back
snatch grip RDL for the upper back, deadlift for the lower
Deadlifts are over-rated. Bent over rows done properly are far-superior.
Deadlifts require too much leg/glute involvement to be a true back-builder.
@@irfuelYou've just explained why it isn't one of the best back builders right there. It hits too much and nothing is isolated. You can obviously make good gains but it takes a lot of effort to get to that point and there are better less fatiguing options that you can also hit with higher frequency. Just my opinion and my gains skyrocketed when I followed that approach and I could pull 5 plates for 10 reps. Just didn't really see much in the way of gains(at least at the level I expected)
@@irfuelExactly. Do your compounds and then isolate the muscles you care most about. I don't want to do trap isolation, hamstring isolation, spinal erector isolation and so on.
A lot of the strongest and biggest guys in my gym are complete bros and they arent all juiced.
Theres a dude who can rep 5 plates whos an absolute bench bro with a 225 squat. Hes just got abnormally short arms lmao.
He literally just benches and does pullups. I talked to him and he didnt even know what periodisation was. Im convinced you can just unga bunga the weights and get strong if you eat well and are consistent
Effort and food are the only things that matter
@@germanrud9904I think we found the bro!
Yeah, cause chest is one of the easiest exercises you cant fuck up easily. We cant say the same for all the compound movements.
@germanrud9904 and genetics! Thats the main thing. And add gear then forget about it. Theyll get results no matter what
" Unga bunga the weights" 😂😂
The pump and the mind muscle connection I believe are very important factor in bodybuilding that are often overloooked
Its not overlooked bub.
this type of refreshing honesty about what you may have been wrong about in the past is genuinely impressive, my friend.. and speaks to your character. appreciated.
Cheat reps , partial reps, isometric holds are goats 🐐🔥
"You're welcome" - The bros
We were really just going off of feeling. Things other people were suggesting, I just wasn't feeling it where I felt like I should be feeling it. It's hard to explain until you experience it for yourself. Also, the mirror never lies, the mirror is your judge.
This just begs one question for me: have we really gained a significant amount of knowledge compared to the guys back in the day? Has "science" really brought anything new to the table?
The popular narrative in bodybuilding these days is that we know so much more now, but is that actually true? Personally, I think it's just that knowledge is easier to access (but so is a load of nonsense), and when I hear, for instance, Arnold talking about bodybuilding during his prime, it seems like he pretty much knew everything that we're talking about today.
No. There is nothing new under the sun.
Did you just watch this video and blindly accepted everything he said as being factual?
Not a lot just more technicality and how things work more than anything else.
After the 60's we haven't gotten alot of new training information after Arthur Jones.
Remember: “periodization,” “proper programming,” “RIR,” “Myo-reps,” “lengthened partials,” “feeder sets,” “back-off sets (these are ok),” etc,…
So, don’t you dare pick up that dumbbell without having learned all this first!
I can't believe that you are saying these things. Im impressed. You are crapping on a lot of your own research. That takes balls. I never thought you would do it.
The partial reps in the hardest position is definitely valid. “Constant tension” is a very real thing many lifters have thrown to the way side. I agree that it should be called time under effort. You can actually grow muscle not even moving. By using yielding isometrics in the hardest position of the exercises and doing it until your muscles reach failure. To simplify it, as long as you’re tiring out the muscle fibers and reaching failure it doesn’t matter what you do. You could do isometrics, partials, slow reps fast reps, and as long as you reach failure you will grow.
This video was really interesting as it seems we've come full circle. You've really thickened up bro. I'm gonna get my overweight ass off the couch today and get to the gym. Thanks.
Stud info from a stud 💪🏋️♀️
Great video man! Having spent a bunch of years attending fitness conferences, it was always fascinating to see how the actual exercise science researchers I've met were far more nuanced and less dogmatic about their findings compared to the average person who spends their days consuming "backed by science" fitness content.
The inner chest one and in general the idea that you could bias distal versus proximal hypertrophy was a shocker. Bros had it right 😭
We all fall into bros category, before 2018ish when science based stuff became more popular
Oh I always used the pec deck for the inner chest and I had to do incline for the upper chest, flat or a slight decline for the mid chest and a dip to hit the lower chest.
Anyone got a source on the inner chest hypertrophy claim? I can't find anything anywhere
I always thought it was obvious. If one part of the muscle can get sore and the other part not sore at all, then surely the part that got sore was stressed more and if the same movement that caused that is repeated over time, will grow more. My "outer" chest is a bit sore right now, and inner not at all.
@@xiaomeng9273yeah. I'm still skeptical
Thanks for making this video. While there's always room for science, I started training in the early 90s, where everything was bro science, and I've never abandoned it. I've always argued, "How can you tell me I'm wrong if I'm growing?"
Because your training could still be far more effective/efficient if you used actual science not bro science.
@@madams989 Treating exercise science like it's gospel is honestly laughable, I could find a paper to support any claim I want. I'm not going to take a field that suffers from the replication crisis and contains extremely contradicting studies seriously. There's a reason that it's not considered a "hard science". Once you start actually lifting according to what feels good and stop relying on flawed EMG studies, you're going to stop being a DYEL.
@@madams989
In the future maybe but bodybuilding science is still in it's infancy. Most of the studies are on small groups of often untrained people, the results are often contradictory with other studies. Some of the apparatus used has since been discredited (EMG for example). Some of the methods used are questionable and it is impossible to control factors which affect the results outside of the experiment itself. Imagine Galileo trying to work out the size of the Universe with his telescope - that's where we are with bodybuilding science today.
@@madams989you know what means when a lot of ppl do different things but obtain results in the end? That means the subject is more simple than you think. Move weights, or you own body weight enought and you will create muscle. Simple as.
@@Ahrone1586 silly comment. if we can improve our training towards optimal and be more efficient with things, starting with cutting out bro science, then we’d all do even better.
hey man, I found your content through Alex Leonids and im so thankful i found you. you share lots of REAL WORLD weightlighting knowledge that i can apply to my training. keep up the amazing work.
rep ranges was easily the biggest thing bros got right. The 8-12 rep range for hyperthrophy and 1-5 for strength is exactly what bros were preaching 20 years ago and it's comproved by science.
media.tenor.com/Z21orJsHOGoAAAAM/are-you-sure-john-cena.gif
Depends on the exercise. I think most would agree they can do a set of 30 with weighted push ups but you can’t do 30 reps of an OHP. For me I think dumbbell benching has to be on the lower side unless do down sets. I can’t reach muscular failure on it without going heavy because holding dumbbells requires more grip strength. If I go too high I’m always failing because my grip is loosening. You might say just increase grip strength but that’s just gonna increase the weight the same way grip has you failing prematurely on RDLs but at least with that you can either use straps or better yet do good mornings
@@KurokamiNajimirdls, rows, and shrugs… yeah you need straps but loose grip during db bench? Thats a new one you grip shouldnt be that weak that you cant “balance” dbs youre not even holding them lol. Also what does rep range matter here if grip was an actual factor it should fail before chest failure no matter the rep range. The only thing that makes high rep sets harder is stamina and that can br brought up to speed fairly quickly. I dont recommend doing high reps always becomes they can accumulate unnecessary fatigue but using them from time to time is a great way for training in a diffrent way and that could make your muscles adapt differently in a positive way
@@KurokamiNajimiWhy can't you do a set of 30 in OHP?
@@omarosama155Usually the higher the rep count, the harder it is to grip, for me anyways. When my grip was weaker, I failed bodyweight pull ups because of grip strength, but I didn't fail weighted pull ups because of grip strength.
This is an excellent video. Really hits home that these old school guys had excellent physiques… for a reason!
I know one such bro at my gym, he’s very big and very strong but doesn’t really articulate programming or training philosophy the way I do at all. He has an odd type of training intelligence, I always learn something when I train with him. (When everyone was bashing the v bar he said “I feel my lats” and showed me how to use it right and the v bar pulldown is now my absolute favorite pulldown variation)
Virgin "not enough range of motion" vs Chad "I feel my lats"
@@Matt-vd9bcthis meme format never gets me but I fucking lold this time
🤓😡 - "YOU CAN'T USE THAT BAR IT'S NOT SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN TO MAXIMIZE HYPERTROPHY"
🗿- "Me feel lat"
you are a bro yourself too because there is no such thing as science for strength training. IT is nothing more than a shallow empty belief system for people who dont know stuff and lack experience.
That training buddy learning you stuff obviously is less bro than you; that is why he teaches you because being less bro he has experience and knowledge about the body.
Also genetics and range of motion are different for people, many races and mixes nowadays so nothing is the same starting from dieets.
You can only learn your body while working it... only using your ego reading some bro-science on the internet shouting about full rom only keeps you low iq.
"odd type of training intelligence" well this is a state being more intelligent; so how is this odd?
Being able to feel your muscles is the base key in this kind of training; you cant read about this. Only low iq folk think reading is better than feeling.
just by feeling my muscles using "broscience"I gained 25kg lean free mass in 1 year naturally.... simple biology. I never follow anyone, I beat them
excellent video Geoffrey! I feel ike we're at a point where the fitness community is learning how to combine the science and practical aspect of everything together to improve training quality
I agree about thing #11. Effort is mainly what I see sets apart the bros in my gym vs the technique sticklers or optimal program guys. And that's something that can be hard to teach to some people.
On the part for pump: as you said, if you incorporate a exercise and you feel a pump in the area you want to work its a indication that its working. Some with getting sore, did AD Press for the first time with full ROM and my front/side delts were never this sore. Pump/Soreness istn an indicator for muscle growth per se, but it can be useful to determine if it works the muscles/area you want to work.
Appreciate the good content Geoff, looking absolutely huge💪
After near a decade in the gym, obsessing over this thing, I've given up on exercise science... Consistency, progressive overload and intensity are all that's required, everything else in BS nuance that does little but confusing people into paralysis by analysis.
Just do whatever is fun man, as long as theres potential for progressive overload, you do it consiatently and it's hard, thats it.
Exactly for me after 13 years I decided to stop watching UA-cam videos. They were making me doubt eveything I was doing
Yep, all that soyence is just majoring in minors.
Progressive overload is overrated and not realistic.
Just do what classic bodybuilders did, they had all the tenets, and they trained a lot before juicing, today ppl rely more on their juice than the technique
yup
I love how you grow and acknowledge the development of understanding as you go.
It is the onnly way in using your own senses isnt it?
I mean school is for the low iq followers who dont have capabilities in finding out anture themselves; its called the new church for religious beta nerds who are born weak
Building muscle has many paths. There is no optimal way. Everyone is gonna build muscle. There is no point in fighting over which path is better. If u r a natural then try every path. Only a sith deals in Absolutes.
Using cheat reps to smooth out the resistance curve that’s a great way to explain it.
I’ve always believed in keeping the tension and not locking out or dropping at the bottom of the rep. Like stretching a rubber band, don’t let it loose or completely tight.
Also targeting different parts of the body’s definitely real too, you can literally sculpt your body and pick which parts to grow. Not into deadlifts though, seated rows are the way forward
Geoff is a beast in the gym...no wonder why he grew.I need the same mentality.
For cheat reps, as much as needed, as little as possible is a great rule of thumb :)
The most jacked guy in the gym is a full bro and trains with "bad form" as he does not do full contraction. Basically he uses very heavy weights and does lengthed partials lol But his consistency and diet also sets him apart.
Broscience is still science 😎
It's in the name
It’s the cool side of science
Pseudoscience - The future is now
Geoffrey you look great !!
regional hypertophy is one thing i myself observed on my biceps.
i swear i had this small doubt in my mind, "soreness is more at the end, is my lower bicep is bigger & stronger "
Same, I've gotten more distal growth from stretch ɓased biceps movements.
Right, if one part can get more sore than the other, then something different is happening.
@@DCJayhawk57as in??
Bro that Lateral Raises Set that you did 😮💨😁 I was thinking okay he will do another one another one …another one another one another one another one another one another one another one
DJ Goeff with another one
Fun aside this was very cool to see how you pushed through ❤
I hate your comment. Why are you writing the same word over trying to be funny
Been coming to this conclusion slowly myself as well
I've been watching fitnes youtube videos (and training myself for almost 30 years) and i have come to the conclusion that experience almost always trumps the newest study.
tl:dr getting big is not rocket science, even though fitness "science" youtubers want you to believe otherwise.
It has taken me almost 20 years to allow myself to listen to the bros, because i had the firm belief that without a high frequency workout (every muscle at least 2x per week) i will loose muscle mass. BUT a couple of years ago i had to pause due to a injury.
After a month of no training at all, i was stronger than i was ever before, to my own surprise.
The constant fatigue i felt for years was gone and after i switched from my Full Body (3x per week) to a 4split (every Muscle once per week), i had much (MUCH!) more energy even after 2 months of constantly working out without a deload week.
The thing about our sport is, the most important source of information is your own body. YOUR experience tops every obscure study. Every f ing time, guaranteed!
The thing about "science" youtubers is, they think they can do a an infinite amount of videos about every new study and people will jump on it every time.
I just finished listening to the Iron Culture Podcast ep. 229 with Zourdos on failure. The take away is that the science bros are so confused they can’t tell us much if anything. Effective Reps (Beardsley model) with progressive overload seems to be the only thing that 99% of people need to worry about.
GVS and NGB bringing back the fun in training! 🥳
Bro split works because you ARE training your muscles 1x per week. When you’re deadlifting on your back days, close grip bench and chin ups on arm days, & sprinkling in some calves on shoulder day, then you’ll see that you ARE training each muscle multiple times a week
when you hit the shoulders, it also hits the chest, back and traps. When doing arm, also, if you use dips, close grip bench and chin ups. The only thing bro really only trains once is his legs, but this can easily be fixed with deadlifts or stiffs on back day, or even doing leg presses after a chest workout
The official name for a partial done through the mid range of a lift is a “Lenny rep” - invented by and named after Big Lenny from the Delray misfits, the one and only 700 lbs ripped freak of all freaks. He figured out decades ago full range is stupid and keeping heavy tension on the muscle is what counts.
What do you think about that Dr. Mike Israetel?
Even jeff nippard doesnt lock out shoulder press for the reasons you mention and he's the science guy.
He's very reasonable. All of the "science guys" I follow and respect (Helms, Biolayne, Nippard, Menno, etc) all actually lift and have good takes overall. They combine the science with experience which really is essential.
It's the guys who maybe haven't really put in a lot of time under the iron and are leveraging science as the biggest part of their brand, often by over extrapolating studies, that I have issue with.
always follows the sciences guys they been through research papers studies and actual reality experiences they really skip the bullshit and spit out the harsh brutal truth to build muscles and strength 🔱🔱
@@GVS 100% agree. Btw good video geoff, I've been watching your channel from some months now and really binging it and enjoying. I would also recommend everyone watching mountaindog1 (John Meadows) R.I.P.
Since I do believe, he was the best knowledge of "bro science" in a good way ofcourse and even Nippard used several exercises and strategies advocted by john in his latest programs.
Jeff nippard is also tiny in reality.
@@user-kg1od9es5dHe really isn't. He's short but has a fantastic physique.
Lovely video, the pendulum is swinging back to actually just working hard hard af.
one thing I've learned as a 30 y/o on this spinning rock, is that practitioners tend to be smarter and better at their craft than intellectuals want to give them credit for. even if they don't sound educated. in fact I tend to veer away from people who talk in a overly - complicated manner.
I think is kind of a bad take.
Good scientists always acknowledge the limitations of the literature, and a good practitioner should think like a scientist. The problem is, a lot of the science communicators on UA-cam are far too pedantic or don't actually understand the science. Jeff Nippard is a good example, he's just a bro bodybuilder who has other people tell him the research which he presents on his channel, he's not a scientist. He's not like Dr. Mike, who is an actual PhD and also a bodybuilder who can look at the research as a whole, the limitations, and applicability.
It's the same in any scientific field. The scientific method is still valid, it's the lack of being able to critically appraise research that leads to the problems. There are so many limitations to exercise science research when compared to something like, say, medical research. Poor funding leading to short term studies with small sample sizes based on volunteer college males who have less than 2 years serious lifting experience. And there are so many confounding variables that can't be controlled, not to mention they often examine single joint movements because it's easier to measure an effect. A lot of the lengthened partials research was done on the calves!
@@DCJayhawk57 what I was referring to was in my own life people who always have a lot to say are often times not qualified to do so. i've successfully competed in a lot of stuff and people love to preach about things being "objectively bad" because of some incomplete theory they have about a topic.
i don't think you're wrong but you really didn't get the gist of my statement. although for clarity i couldve used said pseudo intellectuals instead
“… in fact I tend to veer away from people who talk in an overly - complicated manner…”
Ironic. 🤣
Hi Geoffrey I’ve been following your channel for a while now and it’s good to see your physique really starting to fill out and come into it’s own, and also 25kg seated dumbbell curls is just crazy strong! Keep at it brother you’re an inspiration to me and a lot of other lifters.
Are you saying that the people whose job it is to grow muscle know more about growing muscle than nerds who can’t bicep curl a dumbbell with their age on it? Man who would’ve guessed
You mean people with actual skin in the game know more about the application than people who just read data? Flabbergasted
I think that at least with the current development of science, it is impossible to have a "lifting science" as in the most part, we can't control the variables that occur with each individual, and most current theories don't conduce to predictable outcomes. What I believe is that we can have a "scientific attitude" towards the gym, as many other disciplines like psychoanalysis do, were we can use some elements of science to help us understand what we are doing, but at the same time recognizing the limitations that we have and the value of empiric knowledge passed by almost like tradition.
Deadlifts for upper back thickness makes a lot of sense to me. It's the area where I feel the most soreness after doing trap bar deadlifts.
Weighted stretch, yo.
It's been the weighted stretch all along on most exercises, and movements that make the bottom portion the hardest. This is why cheat rows and shrugs are valuable, they fix the strength curve which is usually harder at the top and make it so it's harder at the bottom.
it's always not the concept itself , but people taking the concept and RUNNING with it a bit too much or apply it wrong ..
1:Partials are fine , but people either applying it to the wrong exercise or just cutting out hardest ROM not the easiest !
2:Regional hypertrophy , Coaches running with it and having beginners who can't even Squat right worry about their outer sweep and which foot placement on the Leg press ..... dude ! build a base of Quad mass overall first then worry about sculpting
3:One time a week Frequency is not a Bro-split , a Bro split done right is completely fine (which Steve show done one before) , but a Bro-split where it's 10 exercises for the chest in one day and 20+ reps with only cables and "burning" the muscle and only trains "One muscle only" , and having an Arm day where they do 30 exercise of curling only .. that's a PED-BS Split imo ..
4:Deadlifts are amazing as an overall stimulus and amazing for mid/lower traps too , but people again running with it saying u ONLY need Deadlifts for bigger back whether it's lats/traps ..
5:SFR , it's really valuable and initiative , u know after training BB Squats + RDL's u'll have to pick an easier movement that have a good SFR if u wanna keep training to manage fatigue , but that's only useful IF u have accumulated fatigue in the first place , if u only do Leg extension what are u recovering from exactly ?! ..
7:Again people are extremist , either they do a Robot-like Rows and call everyone else Ego lifter , or they basically be doing Deadlift Row
So on and so forth on every point , that's usually what happens people either are extremists or they apply the advice in the wrong place or at the wrong time ...
i agree with you on every point. Especially the bro split and ROM one, people just take the easy way out. It is just human brain tendency to do that. They bend the reasoning as per their will.
I have seen some guys in my gym who cut out the bottom ROM in bench press and Lat pull down completely. They have been working out for years but they lift the same weight as they did in their first 3 month. A basic gym bro doesn't know how to do squats,OHP, barbell rows and forget aBOUT DEADLIFT. They just jerk their ego on deadlift. The only reason they don't injure their back on deadlift is because they have been training for years yet they lift the same amount of weight as a teenager in his 4 month of training. And not to forget about that they typically can afford supplements`.
@@nooblifter390 here they'll be lifting more weight and bragging about it actually while they only do top half Bench and having their buddy helping as well...
Like there's this UA-camr i don't remember his name where he actually cut the top range of the Bench and only do the bottom range , yes this is way harder and could be even better in many situations .. that's a useful partials .. but not the other BS where they cut the hard part ..
i was teaching a friend of mine how to Squat ATG in the beginning using Goblet squat elevated heel and going ATG , just to get used to the movement ...
and this Coach came and told him in front of me : "Oh no what are u doing , u gonna destroy your knees in the long run"
my friend who know nothing about lifting said : "i don't actually feel any pain it feel good"
and he said : "No , u won't feel it now , but maybe at the end of the training cycle"
i was like where in the hell did u get that date from haha "at the end of the cycle" lmao ...
and ofc afterward i noticed him trains and go figure ..
"he only do half reps squats on machines and doesn't go to 90 degrees even" and bragging about using a bunch of weight on the Leg press when i am sure he can't even preform a normal BB Squat right ...
and actually coaching people to not go below 90 degrees on any OHP or Bench too
so people won't only choose what's easy , no they'll also try to convince others that they should do the same , not because they avoid what's hard no because what's hard is actually bad and gonna hurt u .. and then they'll feel better about themselves ..
A lot of good points here, but mostly I respect your priority on calling out your own areas of growth and changes opinions.
You’re one of the best sources for exercise related material on UA-cam, man. Keep it up.
After discovering science based fitness I learned that the most optimal way is to eat protein powder pancakes with artificial sweeteners and wash it down with a Diet Coke, and use a training routine where you purposely leave reps in the tank. And here I was with my Neanderthal plan of eating whole unprocessed foods and training hard. I feel like such a bonehead !
Whaaat
Lol exactly. This whole protein powder and pre-workout craze is BS.
With the deadlift i immediately knew it was great for back thickness and development. I ALWAYS get sore lats and traps. As long as you properly pull and KEEP the bar close to the body, it will rival pullups when it comes to DOMS. And i am a heavy mofo, so my pullups already are brutal.
It will rival pullups in terms of DOMS, but not even close for lat/upper back development as the weighted pullup. One of the reasons I stopped doing the conventional deadlift after 5 plates. Same gains from good mornings, hypers, squats and without the high fatigue.
@@Adam-cs3ld hypers? What's that?
@@jooot_6850back extensions i guess
@@jooot_6850hyperextensions
@@jooot_6850 hyperextension. lower back exercise
I read Michael Matthew's book Bigger. Leaner, Stronger...back in 2018 and did his program which is basically a bro split...and not only did I get jacked as fuck, but I increased my weak ass deadlift from 275 to 500 within a matter of months, and my incline bench from 225x5 to 305x5. The program just focuses on progressive overload in the 4-6 rep range. I always see guys talking about how bro splits suck and high frequency is king, and I honestly have never given high frequency a chance (I plan to), but I always scratched my head because I always made great gains on bro splits
You are the biggest natural lifter i know
Is it possible both sides are right? Maybe when you have no muscle you need to do things one way, but when you have substantial muscle that is easy to feel you can work in a different way.
A lot of people don’t realize that bro splits will give just as good results as full body.
Because in the long run, it’s not gonna matter what split you do.
People need to look at the bigger picture and not focus on these stuff like what spilt is better and what exercise should I do and blah and blah lol.
People are focusing on the tree instead of the forest.
A guy who does a bro split for 5 to 7 years compared to a guy who does a full body for 5 to 7 years, as long as everything is dialed in aka progressive overload, consistency, good sleep, protein intake, etc they will both have very similar results in terms of muscle growth.
Plus bro split has a lot of overlap where a lot of muscle groups are being hit twice a week.
But me personally I do full body cause I like that the most out of all the splits.
So really it comes down to preference…
So it looks like the reasoning and intent behind the approaches is more the problem than the methods themselves. I see a lot of bros do partials, but only with the top part (not the partials that include the lengthened/stretched portion) just to use more weight. This also goes hand in hand with a misunderstanding of TUT and some people gravitating towards lower reps (less than 8) solely to use weight that they should not be using.
From what I'm understanding, people are natural mimic-ers, we just do that like we learned from our parents peers etc while growing up. So young guys watching the bros mimic but don't have a reason why or don't know what specifically they're doing it for. You've come full circle and know and understand the reason why some of the bioscience reasoning now and how it can help you vs denouncing it because it isn't the science backed 100% correct way. This is because of your long journey though. It's like my wife and I say about our boys in life, we can tell them what's right and what to do but they have to learn for themselves, they have to fail to learn. Thank you for this video.
everybody is bro when there is no proper science.
And yes using your own senses and notjuist some ego reading is the key; but this also applies for school aka church to keep your kids from gettnig brainwashed as small minded workers for the system
Agree with your position on half reps. But there are people who use that to avoid an issue like tendon weakness. Hear people say to "not go all the way down" on exercises like preacher curls because you might tear your bicep. Instead of lowering the weight and getting stronger in the stretched position, they half rep instead. Gotta have tour twndons get stronger as well for overall health, otherwise an injury occur in the future
Yesterday I saw some old guys doing tricep push downs and extensions like there was no tomorrow. Their arms specifically triceps were so huge compared to everything else it was funny and impressive.
Partials have been a gamechanger for sure.
Really enjoyed this one Geoffrey, by the sounds of it we've taken similar journeys with our relationship with hypertrophy science. Fascinating stuff, but ultimately I don't think it's unfair to say the field is still quite green.
When I started doing partials on lateral raises my shoulders grew a ton…so I believe there is definitely some truth to those lengthened partials being very stimulative
Great video, it has definitely been interesting to see how the science has shifted during the last 2 years or so to basically "making sense" of almost all of the things the "bros" have been doing for decades. The ending really is the bottom line; both sides can definitely learn from each other.
2:58 I do barbell bulgarian split squats as my primary exercise and I noticed that my quads were shaped differently on each leg. On my right leg, I tended to place weight on the inside of my foot but on my left leg I placed weight on the outside edge. Completely changes the shape of the quads. They can both do the same weight, but they do it slightly differently.
Squats made my back way thicker. Just holding 350+ pounds on the bar and coming out of the squat really worked my back. I did pull downs, after not doing them for months, and could pull more.
Squats are a full-body movement
I think one caveat to exercise order is limb ratios. For example, if someone has long legs, doing barbell back squats first will likely not push the quads near failure, and the failure will likely come from erector endurance, glutes, adductors etc. so for someone trying to SPECIFICALLY pick up a lagging set of quads, they might want to train leg extensions or sissy squats BEFORE barbell back squat for this reason so as to pre exhaust the muscle. However, MOST people will not have this issue and should indeed do their compounds before the isolation.
I think a good idea after this video, is a whole workout in the gym explaining your current method vs Bros since in this video, but in a more practical way including comparing PLUS your overall rating, and whether you will switch some of your exercises, rep ranges, etc to follow Bros or not.
"If anyone up for this like so our dear GVS can see it"
My biggest gains were when I followed a bro division 4 days a week, I didn't have programmed exercises, I simply did what I felt like, testing to use the maximum load for 8-10 reps.
As I started reading articles and watching videos about optimal frequency, deload, rpe, my gains were never the same, and now I suffer from joint pain.
I'm finally getting back to my bro, yesterday I just did the back, doing all the exercises I wanted to, and I can barely move because of the pain now.
I will divide my training into
1 - chest / Shoulders / Calves
2 - Back / forearms
3 - Cardio
4 - Legs
5 - Shoulder / Arms
6 - Cardio
7 - Pullups /Abs/ Sprints in the park
with this will you do ANY tricep or bicep isolations on days 1 and 2, respectively or reserve your total wk of arm training for day 5?
@@patrickjulius7352
I didn't, because my arms are my strong points, but if they were lagging, I would do some stimulation on those days, but something more pump style
@@daniell5751 what’s more pump style for each?
How many sets were u doing I've heard there's 'junk sets' as you start going above 6 sets per exercise in 1 day? Is this true?
You're grossly overtraining
Mind-muscle connection is a tricky one. Lots of people say they can't feel their lats in pull-ups, and yet we know that it is impossible to do a proper pullup without using the lats. I prefer to focus on good form, and the mind-muscle connection is just a bonus if/when it happens.
Well there's a difference between yanking your body up and using a lot of bicep, than using a proper shortented motion that activates and focuses on the lats more.
If you do the latter properly, you should have huge thick lats. if not you're doing it wrong too.
You're not supposed to go all the way up if your goal is to focus on the lats.
@@user-kg1od9es5d It's not possible to get yourself up with just biceps. They simply aren't strong enough, so the lats will always do the majority of the work.
It's also hard to tell even with all this science how effective it is to completely "feel" the lats when doing 40kg, versus not feeling them well but being able to rep out 70kg for example
For me my lagging muscles were always the ones i had worst mind muscle connection with. Just an observation
Correct. Muscle muscle connection is hugely over rated. The heavier the lift, the less you’ll ‘feel’ your muscles. Take a bench press one rep max… the muscles are working the same, as if you didn’t a 100 rep max. 100 reps would burn like hell, one rep, you’d feel nothing.
Those triceps are lookin' stellar bro. 🎉
The Bro Split did wonders for me in the past.
I only trained 4 times a week, following this split:
Back
Rest
Chest and Biceps
Legs
Rest
Shoulders and Triceps
Rest
The thing is I was completely fresh every time and crushed it like a maniac in the gym. I don’t train like this anymore because it is not that fun anymore but looking back I think I made most of my gains on this “stupid” split.
What about forearms, abs, calves, traps&neck?
Frankly if you are one of the people who can absolutely destroy yourself in the gym (do a ton of sets) and go hard like it sounds like we both went through, it works pretty great for a while. Until you get bored of it.
@@Hadriantheemperorofromeabs and calves on rest days
@@Hadriantheemperorofrome Calves on Back Day, Abs on Legday, Traps & Neck On Back and Shoulder Day
How many sets per movement do u do on B Split is there the problem of junk sets?
Jesus those lateral raises were ruthless 🔥. I like to go beyond failure on those with the cables too.
Just a quick comment on the frequency topic. My current routine often has me training a muscle 3x a week at the beginning of a meso, and, if it's a weak point, up to 5x a week. The overall training volume doesn't even exceed 20 sets, but I can tell you it's been a lot more effective for me compared to when I did a strict PPL or U/L split. This is especially true for the smaller muscles like biceps.
I think work quality has a lot to do with it, and the frequent stimulus must also have an effect that we don't fully understand. The weekly training volume is the same or less than what I used to do, but my results are superior. I don't know if my training age is a factor, I'm advanced.
W/ Bro Split if ur doing Chest day don't u have the problem of junk sets? Coach Greg said after 6 sets in 1 day ur in junk territory
You're grossly overtraining
I feel like once I started transitioning more into "optimal... science based... meta analysis" type training, my progress has slowed or even reversed, and I just chalked it up to aging. I need to go back to being a big stupid animal in the gym again.
10:05 , The guy in the back applying number 7 a bit too hard 😂..
(i am just joking , no hate)
lmao 🤣
5:11 "stuff" is my favourite muscle to train
lately more of mike mentzer lessons are being proved right.
Mike was genuis.
idk how he knew it before everyone else
He was in tune with way of weight
He was ahead of his time Mike was a genius
He is right about lower volume. I do around 6 to 9 for each muscle group and its very good.
Loved your approach. The only subject I think you missed when it comes to bro science is training to failure for real gains.
I swear to god, I have not been sore from lateral raises a single time when using strict form. Also, didn't feel like they contributed a lot. Started doing those failure reps I saw from you, and o boy do they feel good! First time in a long time actually having shoulder soreness was the day after them, they were kind of my buy in movement for lengthened partials. Thanks for your work and honest insights, appreciate it!
Supersetting them with heavy trap bar shrugs was a (painful) game changing. I'm not huge into hypertophy, more strength, but bigger muscles can be stronger muscles so I go for it some and good lord
Nothing makes me sore in the side delts, not even failure + partials on lateral raises 🥲
Weird, side delts really never get sore
John Meadows has some good videos on this. Do lighter weight for full ROM or only the upper half, where the muscles are weaker. Then grab heavier weights and do he bottom half ROM, where the muscles are stronger. I get great MMC from a machine. The key was doing 3-second negatives.
You don’t have to be massively sore to progress though, keep consciously overloading the movement you’ll grow .
Alex Leonidas puts emphasis on the "weighted stretch" as the reason Deadlifts/rackpulls build a great back.
lengthened partials are not typically what you see bros doing. Partial reps are done to use more weight, lengthened partials, you're pretty much not going to get to load up on more weight, as you still max out the ROM on the hard part of the exercise. Israetel has a recent video on them.
I actually do a "superset" when benching. Push-ups to failure in between every barbell bench set.
Honestly I also used to preach frequency but now that I'm hitting my 3rd natural peak, after 6 years of constant 6 days a week, I'm starting to notice I only really progress like crazy or at all doing less sessions a week, so long as I'm properly allowing for recovery and nutrition. Both may work but I think it depend on many other various factors
Hence HIT
Another excellent video
This was a thing I was thinking about after some Mike isratel vids where he's suuuuuuper anal about form, to the point where he got a bodybuilder woman doing 10lbs each side on a goodmorning (granted they were really slow) and a guy on steroids with a back as big as a door doing 135lb for bent over rows for 15 reps. He made it out to be that those quality reps would actually to as good of growth, maybe more but I just kept scratching my head, like is it really productive for a guy who has clearly built his back from much much much more load to go back to 135lb even if he reaches close to failiure? Theres probably value in cleaning up form overtime with lighter weight but I just couldn't see it on a guy that has all the muscle on my body on just his back
why scratch your head if you can clearly feel this after testing and trying?
The fact you dont have muscle stating his back has the same amount as you totally have answers your question; you dont know stuff because you dont try but think.
I always look smiling at the smaller guys lifting more or as much as me but with a weak intensity.
Lower your weight will create more intensity; and if not there is something wrong with the connection from your brain to your muscles.
@@zengerz I'd say I have a decent bit of muscle, around 16 inch arms, that sort of thing and have experimented a ton, it's jus the dude was genuinely humungous, most likely on roids. it's more the question of how applicable stuff like this is to people normally. If 135 makes someone that big fail and they probably built their back off of 300lbs, 400lbs and probably controlled beforehand with stuff like machines, how does one start doing that approach just the bar for a year? Then 25lbs each side the years after? It's jus something that gets me curious, especially with research suggesting the weighted stretch is more important
@@loovlehcuppatea2830
ahaa, well uhmmm using your brain focus as an extra tool for intensity you should have the capability of making your time under tension a lot harder. If you pick too much weight then this takes away room for focus and thus intensity, also you posibly shorten the overal time under tension towards the end, but can extend it with some dropsets. Just by using my focus and brain I can make 10kg feel like 15 or 20 and I think a lot of gains are made there as this connection provides oppurtunity to grow without having the need for heavy weights thus making you able to go beyond those limits.
I can build my quads and hamstrings easy with half rom squats, but this wont activate hip rotation keeping this part too weak and not active enough. This could create imbalances over time and the smaller muscles in your hip and glutes will keep weak. So once when you take less weight and start to exercise full rom you actually train these weak muscles, using them and being untrained end up early fatiguesd with this less weight.
Muscle size and muscle weight does not mean anything, its all about the dynamics nobody can measure or translate into linear understandings for a 100%
Also science + research in area's like fitness, food etc are all BROSCIENCE. read it, then perfrom science on such statements yourself using your own feelings and connection. Using my feelings and never following anything I grow 25kg lean mass in 1 year naturally on pure common sense and biology. Science is becoming too much of a non grounded religion!!!!!!!!!!!
your body, your anatomy and your feelings are every day a different tool and guidence.
there is just too much influencers out there commercially driven, and also salesman who dont act like this... I mean: everywhere commercialism drives the product you will get shallow info and half baked nonsense.
training is no rocket science since you can feel your every move ;)
Train hard that's all you need
And eat hard