Global Cycling Network I quite like it. my steel 80s road bike is super comfy and eclipses my very stiff aluminium frame for comfort over long easy miles
I've had carbon frames, titanium frames, steel frames and aluminum frames over the years. The only ones I didn't care for the ride of were aluminum. No more aluminum for me.
Had a steel frame bike commuting to college . . . and still have it 20yrs later. It has big 1.5 inch tires and a great ride. Custom gearing but a little rust on the chain stays. Love it till the rust god takes it away. Did have one wreck, which destroyed the front wheel but no damage to the frame or fork. She is heavy but a blast to ride fast downhill with the tall gearing :)
As a builder of steel frames I have to say this is a really good article. I have to agree that a lot of people do rave about "how good steel rides "' and " the feel of steel". I don't disagree that this s true but believe that the geometry of the frame plays a huge part in this . This is where custom comes into it. If you want that feeling, approach a custom builder ( small self promotion here) and talk about your needs. Make sure they hear what YOU are asking for. Be prepared to pay more for that experience and possibly wait a while because a well made item takes time, but look forward to not being disappointing in the end
I was hit by a car while riding my 2002 Bianchi Chromo Lite. I dove away from the bike while the driver ran over my rear wheel. Crushed Campy wheel and rear derailleur. The derailleur dropout was bent in at a 90 degree angle. Took it to the shop and they bent the dropout back into shape with a crescent wrench. Checked the angles and have ridden it for six years since with no issue. Carbon frame would have been in pieces.
That a carbon frame would have been in pieces is just speculation on your part. A car ran in the back of me, completely destroyed the wheel and damaged the rear derailleur but did nothing to the carbon frame, not even a bent drop-out. The frame is still going strong over 20 years later. Who knows what would have happened if I had been on a steel frame; I don’t because I wasn’t. In some accidents frames get damaged and in others they don’t, irrespective of the material.
Did you have a replaceable derailleur hanger by chance? My point was my frame was bent to a full 90 degree bend, sat for a few days, and was bent back with a wrench. Carbon ain't doin' that. Anyway, glad you were lucky and got some good use out of your frame!
Since there has been a lot of chemistry on this channel I think that physics should make a comeback on GCN. Maybe even make a video about the laws and theories of physics that apply to cycling(maybe even doing some calculations). I am ofcourse willing to help make such a video. I will only do it on these conditions: I want a GCN bottle, a canyon Aeroad disc, Matt's wig, a bottle of chanel no. 5, a Norwegian flag and a Si v.s. Dan lightsaber duel on Mustafar with Dan playing Obi-Wan and Si playing Darth Vader(Anakin). These terms are ofcourse negotiable.
I fully support your claims. Can Lasty please be Emperor Palpatine then? And if Matt wants to be included too, he can be Padme, so we can have the whole scene.
GCN I think the one bit about the steel bikes that was missed out, is how long they last in comparison to carbon and aluminum frames. Steel frames live multiple decades and I guess no other material but for Titanium will last as long.
I own steel, aluminum and carbon road bikes. They're all fun to ride. But, I do have a soft spot for narrow-tubed steel bikes with box rims, likely because I grew up watching Le Tour in the late 80s on ESPN when I was on summer break. My Tommasini Diamante has the Columbus Multi-Shape tubeset; my Casati Laser uses the Columbus Genius tubeset, and my De Bernardi uses the Thron tubeset. I like the Casati the best, but that is just because overall it's the perfect bike for me/
As a Materials Engineer, these recent videos are giving me stiffness in the pants. Where are you getting this information Si? Do you have a resident engineer in the GCN house?
I rode the same aluminium mountain bike frame for twenty years. As I am in my early fifties, I began to notice the frame stiffness more particularly over rough surfaces. I had an old 1997 full cromoly Gary Fisher Marlin frame and recently transferred all the components from the aluminium frame. The bike although slightly heavier is much more lively as the frame and fork flex slightly over rough surfaces making riding more comfortable similar to Reynolds 531, Tange and Columbus tubing. I should have done it years ago
I'm no GCN but I live by and have meet the guys at BOO Bicycles, I plan to hit them up in spring to try the lot, road, commuter, CX, and MTB. They told me it shines best in MTB where you have a lot of torsional load on the frame that bamboo dampens a bit.
hahaha that comment made my day. but i dont think id have much of a problem living in Ireland. i hear the frame multiplies so buy one and you never have to worry about buying another frame again
After having 3 bikes, steel (reynolds 631), titanium (3al2.5v) and a high-end carbon bike, one had to be sold. Maybe not in terms of speed, but in terms of ride enjoyment and pleasure of getting on the bike early in the morning, the steel and titanium bikes made the carbon redundant.
I agree with you. I have everything from Tange Prestige, True Temper, Reynolds to Ti to Carbon as well as aluminum. I absolutely love my Reynolds 531 steel bike. But my GT Edge Ti is insanely comfortable. The carbon bike feels dead to me. I know a lot has to do with your tire width and pressure, but man, I love my steel and Ti bikes. I also admire the craftsmanship that goes into building a steel or Ti bike.
I've had 2 custom steel frames previously and a few factory made and got a carbon bike for last season. I was quite underwhelmed. Naturally the lesser weight does make it slightly faster uphill and on fast accelerations, which was expected, but the overall character of steel and it's capability to soak up uneven tarmac and sort of spring load your energy (if that makes sense) makes up for the weight penalty tenfold.
The steel vs aluminium/carbon comfort is certainly a common feature bonus that I've heard about. The thing is, you can engineer all of the materials, within limits, to specific ride qualities. I just wonder how much of this is about customer preferences vs. actual material performance. That said, I've never ridden a steel frame road bike, they went out of mass market before I got interested. Getting one just for the experience (and switching frames once in a while) is certainly tempting.
nimeq titanium should give you even more comfort, at lower weight. I got myself a titanium MTB frame, and it definitely feels great. I'll definitely consider it for a road bike but it would be great to see a video where they talk about it, since they are less common and it's hard to find a bike to test
As much as I love my two classic steel frame road bikes, I would jump at the opportunity to ride a titanium frame. As you said, though, they are exceedingly rare (even in bike-friendly Minneapolis) and they are expen$ive.
I've ridden and raced different steel, carbon, titanium and aluminum frames since I first started racing in 1987. By far, the most agile and high performance ride has been a Scott CR1 (saunier duval edition). This is in comparison to a Basso Gap (columbus SL), Kellogg (ishiwata 020), Giant Team TCR, and a Merlin Road, in addition to others such as Devinci, Fetish, and cannondale. I still have all these bikes, btw, in addition to several others. My comment is - if you didn't have your mind blown by the performance of a well--built carbon frame, you weren't riding a well built carbon frame. There really is _no_ comparison. There is a reason the pro's ride carbon, and it isn't because they're paid to. They ride the bike that will help them win. This is why you sometimes see a pro riding a bike with a name on it (usually the teams frame sponsor) that was built by someone else - and it's never a steel frame anymore.
Zen Cycle - Complete BS! Loads of high level national cross and road races are won on titanium, steel, and aluminum bikes each year. Pro's ride what the sponsors give them, and by and large the largest bike companies out there that have the $$$ to sponsor pro teams are pushing carbon fiber bikes because that's what they mass produce and make the most $$$ off of. I've ridden a Crumpton, a Parlee, and a custom Calfee and none of them blew me away with their performance. Used to have a Look 585 carbon fiber frame, a pretty well regarded frame ridden by several top euro teams. Nothing overly amazing about it either. Have ridden both Specialized S Works, and Cannonale CF bikes (both have been ridden by multiple TDF Pro teams). Again, nothing that blew me away or suddenly out of the blue made my performance shoot to the moon. At the end of the day it is always about the engine, and no carbon fiber frame including a Scott is going to suddenly make anyone worlds faster or worlds better. Components and wheels have gotten so light that any reasonably well built steel or ti frame with a CF fork and a nice set of light CF wheels and can easily be brought down to at or very near the UCI weight limit so there is no huge weight advantage either when you look at the total bike package. I have a steel Vanilla as one of many examples that with Dura Ace and my Zipp wheels is 14 lbs and change in a size that would be the equivalent of what most frame makers call a stock 57 size. And that bike rides as fast and as well as any of the "high foot" CF frames I have ever ridden including the Look, the Parlee, the Specialized, and the Crumpton, which are all regarded as very good CF frames. A guy name Alejandro Valverde (not a bad rider, LOL) rides a Canyon Ultimate, yet often trains on old school steel frames, and is on record saying he could easily ride several of those frames in races and be competitive with the right groupsets and wheels.
I in love with my columbus steel bike, I like how I feel every pour on the road. It weighs just under 10 KGs, for me it's as light as a feather, no need for carbon
Having owned all materials, it really does come down to the engineering and in the case of steel, tube selection and most of all - geometry but my favorite bikes to ride are my steel bikes.
Your UA-cam clips never disappoint! What a great service you provide. I ride an old 1989 Cinelli during the shoulder seasons, and a carbon Colnago during the heat of the summer here in Canada. I truly enjoy riding both bikes. You're absolutely right in declaring that one cannot reach the conclusion that one material is better than the other. It depends. At age 56, I'm finding a greater affinity for steel because of the forgiving ride quality. Speed, on the other hand, diminishes with each passing year. LOL.
Brian Cartoscelli I race a carbon Sava bike but my training is 90% on a GMC Denali 6061 30 lbs alloy. People always ask me why are you so slow during training but win on race day? I point to their bike and say : Is that the bike you trained with ? Their answer is YES . I tell them next time take a backpack and add 18 lbs to it then go train and tell me how it goes. They storm off looking pissed.
If you train for same amount of the time, it doesn't matter on what bike, because the watt you produce will be the same just at lower speed. if you train at same distance then you are right, because you maintain the watt output for longer period time on a slower bike Sorry for my English :D.
Sharif Naddaf Indeed it's the same 40 km course. On the Carbon it feels like a joke. On the 14 kg road bike it is a challenge. In my opinion ( just me ) a 6 kg bike does not add enough resistence to train for maximum output on shorter courses. 14 KGS with 175 lbs + 25 km wind going 32 km/hr is not that easy to pull off. And you will need some legs to pull that off for 40 km straight. Not many can pull it off specially on a 14 kg bike with 32c tires . That is the type of training I do. This is why I train on a heavier bike as the resistence is passed to the legs much faster and your body has to maintain a constant flow of oxygen to maintain those speeds. Some pros actually do this type of training. They use the same bike but loaded with bottle weights. This type of training is never discussed because it really is only for top level cyclists who want to have that extra edge. Looking at Chris Froome for example if we both did a short 20 km course with 14 kg bikes Chris Froome would be dropped in the first km. However if we both did a 200 km course on 14 kg bikes ( full max output ) I would be dropping out at 70 km and would DNF. Different bodies , different tools. Long distance smaller weight and lighter bike. I am built more for track cycling so 200km runs are not possible ( at full max output).
Idk the times for pros haven’t changed much since they still all rode steel so I think in reality it’s just like carbon, quality is what matters not material
American framebuilder Rob English showed his 9.9-pound stainless steel road bike at the North American Handmade Bicycle Show last year. The possibilities with steel are endless. Just like carbon "frubber" or whatever Simon said. :)
Also, a steel frame, being ferrous, will set off the traffic control switch that is buried under the pavement at the intersection. Other materials aren't going to work so well.
@@ripp3rjak934 Try tipping it over on it's side. An engineer told me an orthogonal loop of metal works best to trigger a lot of them (different types of sensors so won't always work). I forget exactly how they they work - something to do with induction loops - so his rec was to tip the bike over on it's side to help trigger. I believe this is why motorcycles still have trouble despite being largely steel - it's the geometry (and cars have enough metal they don't need the geometry). Also look for grooves in the street to pinpoint the sensor - sometimes it's in the crosswalk. Another tip I heard - try securing an active RF anti-theft sticker/tag (can't be deactivated by cashier) from a store to the bottom of a chainstay. I think I was able to confirm that one worked for me, but only slightly scientifically. For camera-initiated traffic lights, I think you can turn the bike sideways, but I think they work better than the induction loops in the first place for bikes.
Excellent video! As an old "Biker" friend would say.. "there's only two kinds of bikers in this world... those that ride Harleys, and those that don't"! The advantages... and the disadvantages are not "cut & dried", more personal preference. I learned a lot about steel, thanks.
Steel most definitely is real! 👍. I ride a Mason Resolution and the ride quality is absolutely beautiful! Yes my Madone is lighter and faster, but I feel it lacks one important quality that the Steel Mason has LOADS of... Character! Just sublime.
I still have my first custom built Ciocc from 1985... it's a thing of beauty and rides like a dream. 6 speeds in the rear with Shimano 600 SIS first itteration. Only issue after a 1/4 century was having a drop tube shifter fail and I found a new old stock one at a local bike shop that has been around longer than I have (and I'm about to turn 56.)
I still have a Spectrum built for me by Tom Kellogg in 1986. It's 8 spd. DA equipped built for Crits. It is STILL the quickest handling, fastest responding, bike I own. Every time I bring it out I wonder why I'm not on it more.
Definitely the most informative and credible source of bicycling information that I’ve seen. I’ve watched most of your videos, as well as many others, and consider yours among the best. Thanks.
I steel ride in winter my steel Bianchi 1998. When temperature is low (2°c-5°c) i feel the frame stiffer. But, when temperature change, out of the saddle i literally feel the frame torsion. Ma opinion is; power transfert is the worst point. Comfort... i don't now, in winter i ride less... Great video, thanks!
I had them all. Carbon frames, aluminium frames and steel frames. In my humble opinion no material can beat the ever lasting effect of a steel frame. Just got an old Columbus Aelle frame from the 1980th, the colour was removed and I measured the frame before reinking it. Apart of some small barely visible dents there was no sign it has ever been used before and it was perfectly straight. So if you don't want to compete with pros or ambitous amateurs a steel frame is always a good choice - as you may also inherit it...
Nice video Si, a few things I would like to point address, fatter tubes are not more prone to buckling assuming that the wall thickness is the same. Fat tubes are generally going to be thinner to compensate for the weight, because increasing diameter increases stiffness more than increasing wall thickness. However, if you make the wall thickness too thin, then you start play with potential impact problems, so you have to balance it. Next point, "elastic response" might be easier to explain as a material damping coefficient. Any material can be described as a spring and damper system. This results in a (very slight) suspension effect. A direct comparison is your modulus is your spring rate and your internal damping coefficient is well, your damping coefficient. So think of changing tube sizes, shapes and materials as changing the pressure, compression and rebound settings on your mountain bikes shock. If I finish my homework, maybe I will do a design of experiments on frame design: comparing over-sized BB's to standard, how and where seat stays attach to the bike and seeing how that effects vertical compliance and torsional stiffness (popular buzz words in the cycling industry). It might take a few weeks to complete but if you guys would like to do a video on the results, I would be happy to share them.
Still riding my 92 Merckx Corsa,Columbus SL,team Motorola scheme and loving it,there`s rarely a ride that I go on that I don't have to clean off other riders saliva off it from all the drooling. Steels not real,it`s unreal.
My 1990 MASI is the same,Ive ridden it a whole lot and it doesnt have a scratch on it,killer paint and clear coat still looks new. Quad butted reynolds 753,silver soldered at low temp,internal lugs,MASI did some good work.
Ages ago I commissioned a custom steel frame. One day I saw a stock bike that was the same size, so for curiosity, I put mine right next to it to compare tube lengths and angles. I couldn't see any difference. But that doesn't mean other custom frames are just hand made versions of stockers. It did show me that I could have saved a load of money by finding a store bike that fit me.
I love steel bikes. I own four of them and there really is a difference in ride, they have a very nice ride and have a spring feel to them that propels you forward. Steel is real.
I have 4 hardtail mountain bike frames all steel. 2 custom built. Reynolds 853 and True Temper OX Platinum (which is no longer made). I have owned Aluminum and Carbon frames. But will always prefer steel frames. Can't beat the ride quality and they last forever. Sadly once the custom builders I know are gone so are the custom steel frames.
I'm enjoying my 7005 alum bike with T800 carb fork. But I have to say there are still lots of moments when I'm missing my custom Tange 1 cromo bike. Indeed, there is a certain magic only a good steel frame can deliver.
I agree that steel is real. I ride Trek 520 for one year and it's more comfortable than the couch. Now I can go 100 km on "washboard" gravel without any problems.
Nothing rides like steel. Have ridden aluminum, full carbon, chromoly. All of it. For me, steel feels better than anything. Weight trade off is absolutely worth it.
There is most definately something to be said for a well made steel bicycle frame. I've seen some beautiful lugged steel frames in my day. But I'm an equal opportunity bike snob. I like beautiful bikes regardless of frame material.
I have a late 80's Bianchi Campione, an early 80's Motobecane (fixed gear), and a 2002 Motobecane -- All lovely steel. The Bianchi is a dream to ride. These days I spend most of my time on a 2014 Lynskey (w/ campy Chorus/Record build out, Chris King headset, Wound Up forks, Fizik saddle, Campy Eurus wheels). It's all about comfort.
So carbon is for weight whiny's, aluminum is for people that cant afford carbon and steel is for the tough guys that just want a great bike for what they do best... Riding... Seems legit
Basically aluminum gets close to the rigidity of carbon fiber frames without the high cost. Steel, well good luck even finding one in your average local bike store. Also aluminum can easily be melted down and turned into other products when the bike is end of life. I think the best bike for commuting is the 15 year old bike that nobody really wants to steal(not steel) anymore.
I rode a 50 pound Schwinn Fastback Stingray with a 5 speed stick shift as a kid. I did 10 miles a day on my paper route. I have considered all 30 lb. bikes a blessing ever since.
Nice video. Thanks. I will always choose a steel frame over an aluminium frame. I still have my Fuji quad-butted steel frame from 1985. Excellent frame!!! Regarding the comparison of tube size and thickness, I think some important points were omitted. Because aluminium is so much weaker than steel and aluminium has the nagging problem of fatigue (which, unlike steel and titanium, accrues at very low levels of stress), aluminium tubes must be made much thicker than steel. In fact, mechanical engineers are forced to design aluminium frames with much higher safety margins to account for this. So there is precious little weight advantage for a quality aluminium frame vs. a quality steel frame. P.S. As much as I like steel, my first choice today is composite. My main road bike has a composite carbon frame and I'd love to try one with graphene when it becomes affordable. Si hit the nail on the head when he acknowledged that much of a frame's ride quality is in the design and quality of manufacture. Most of my experience has been with high-quality frames for general-purpose racing. When comparing steel to aluminium to titanium to composite, you must make sure that you are comparing apples to apples. There is a huge variety in each (especially aluminium and composite).
An excellent video, interesting and entertaining to watch. Keep em coming Si. One thing you forgot to mention is they are bombproof and you can customise them yourself. As a youngster starting back in the dark ages of the late sixties we used to get old frames strip the paint off and build them up into one off masterpieces. These we used to train and race on. Great fun and made a decent machine accessible even when you didn't have a sponsor or deep pockets. Also provided a great grounding and understanding of the basics of how to maintain your own bike. I can clearly remember on great masterpiece of an old Claud Butler frame lovingly stripped of its old rusty paint, sanded down and hand sprayed. A new set of transfers bought and put on then. the greatest expense was a set of decent secondhand Mavic hubs and rims with some tubs. I'll stop swinging the lamp now. great video as I said.
@@Bartooc Aluminium will break sooner and the frame will never feel as good after 10 years. Steel however, can feel as good as when it rolled off the shop.
I used to ride a lugged steel Bianchi Aloro. The first bike I bought for myself. Now I ride a lugged carbon LOOK. From personal experience carbon is best for racing and steel and Ti for long distance riding. Thanks.
Thoughtyness so looking into the sky would be the best ? while technicly the sky is the most far away objekt i can look at ? doesn't sound that save to me :P
My bicycle(2014 Trek 520) and I survived a car incident. We are still moving great today. A Will of Steel along with a Frame of Steel make a perfect match.
famous for its chainstays that crumple with kick stand clamps. Might as well have carbon. Really though I like steel, just don't know why surly is so stubborn about saving a few grams on their chainstays. Seems they've just become dug in on being right on it.
I've had all three materials for bike frames and I admit that aluminium was the most unforgiving although stiff. Steel is very stiff and comfortable to ride on(And I had the entire rear replaced) Carbon is very comfortable though but very expensive.
Thanks for your most interesting video. I enjoy your work. Much that recommends steel is lightly touched on here. Research over, say, the past five to ten years has suggested that a bike with the right kind of flex -- a flex that steel bikes with thin walls delivers -- yields higher performance. It gives back, especially during intense performance, say, hill climbing. Jan Heine in the U. S. terms this phenomenon "planing". You just hinted at this with "springiness". I suspect that the blind devotion to stiffness has gone by the way side in light of what I mention this. Also, the weight argument against steel is real, but not strong. Often it's the equivalent of the difference between a water bottle full or empty.
I had the luxury of having a steel bike custom built for me. I have owned many bike before, and since, made of all sorts of materials, but none have even remotely compared to the steel frame.
If steel is stiffer than titanium & aluminium... then why do so many people claim steel frames give the most comfortable ride, because it's more flexible?
It sounds like you're an advocate for carbon fibre throughout most of this, given how reluctantly you were to tout the benefits of steel. Rust is mostly solved by using stainless steels, such as Reynolds 953 or similar. Repairs on steel are much easier to guarantee, carbon repairs are a very risky business, and carbon itself is prone to many invisible flaws straight out of the factory.
Alex Paulsen Well it's tricky because steel just doesn't trump carbon in many areas at all. Yes stainless doesn't rust but man alive is it expensive. You can buy cheap carbon but not cheap stainless. Also, from what I'm told stainless is hard to re-weld, whereas actually carbon repair is very secure. Can't argue with your last point but mas sproduced steel bikes also break.
Simon Richardson 21 years later and my steel frame is still going strong. Composites are the future of lightweight bicycles, but the touring and randouneuring guys will definitely have a strong bias to "reliable" old steel. Either way, both are still more enjoyable than aluminium. Carbon repairs are still a specialist repair, especially if you want to be able to trust it. Any good frame builder can probably reweld one of their own frames and guarantee it.
It's perhaps the only thing I don't like about GCN and how cycling is evolving: all the buzz about technology and materials, all the needs and wants you're talked into (electronic shifters, hydraulic brakes, sliders on your frame, 'aero'). That's not what cycling is about for me. That's as fascinating as hearing a carpenter talk about windows.
We recently bought double-butted aluminum bikes for my sons. I am wondering how much a difference does double-butting make in an aluminum bicycle? Double-butting is actually the property of most steel bikes that gives it the great reputation for springy response on the road ...
Have you tried a high end carbon bike? One with thick tubes? I have a full carbon bike Nike (used to have chromo, steel, and aluminum). All the bikes were fun and I rode them all into the ground, but one think I noticed about the carbon bike is it’s intense stiffness. Tho I’ll say, some carbon bikes are designed to flex in certain areas to give the rider more comfort, it’s called Carbon Fiber Tuning. They can make the bike as stiff as they want, or make it flex. Try to find a stiff carbon frame (race variant, they don’t flex so much)
Prone to rust if you don't look after it probably and leave it out in the wet and damp! I know someone with a 50 year old steel frame. Resprayed looks great and no internal damage. Keep it dry and wipe it down after it gets wet. Superficial rust will form eventually, but can be removed. If you don't look after it, then yes it will rust badly after many years. If you don't shave or wash you will have a long beard and stink after a year! Look after your bike and it will look after you!
Steel is like an all around character/hero in gaming. Others are more case specific materials. Yet you can tank with an agility hero depending on your level(engineering/design/brand/model/ridingskill)
I think the characteristic I feel the most between materials is their frequency it gives off of the road. AL is very high frequency, Steel low and carbon lower, even muted. The difference is I feel fresher after three hours on Carbon. since I started on Steel, it' feels normal, the baseline. AL is too high (unless racing) and carbon normal but I feel less beat up after the ride.
One thing you didn’t mention which is one of the most important factors of steel is its fatigue characteristics. Steel (without corrosion) can in theory last forever, under a certain stress steel can withstand any number of stress cycles, aluminium however no matter how much stress it receives will fatigue over time ending in catastrophic structural failures.
I love steel bikes. I've never rode a carbon bike but sure do love steel over aluminum. Weight isn't an issue for but I enjoy the feel off steel. And I love the look of a retro steel look.
My Gios Super Record is 35 years old and just as comfortable to ride as it was the day I built it up. I doubt that a plastic bike would even be safe to ride after that many years. The weight issue is a red herring. The frame weight is only about 20% of the total weight of the bike. You can save weight elsewhere where it doesn't effect safety and comfort.
Hey, I am now doing a PhD in the institute of ferrous technology and in my opinion, this a well brief explanation of steel properties in general and not touch into over complex subjects of it. Great job Simon. One thing I would like to say is that you can just say "stainless steels" when you talk about the corrosion resistance steels since I think most people know it in general anyway.
2001 Steel frame Bianchi Eros (WSD) for a beginning female cyclist who may also use the bike to get around town in the city OR a carbon frame Trek 2018 Domane SL5 (WSD). Both are used, in super condition, and around the same $750 price. The former has old Campy Mirage, the latter has newer Shimano 105. I think of the Trek as leaning more toward road riding only and not really for city use, but I'd be curious to hear your opinion. My guess is that you're more of a roadie and would jump on the Trek immediately. Both my girl and I are in our 50's, so we aren't gonna be racing any time soon. ???
Let us know what you think of Steel 👇
Global Cycling Network I quite like it. my steel 80s road bike is super comfy and eclipses my very stiff aluminium frame for comfort over long easy miles
I've had carbon frames, titanium frames, steel frames and aluminum frames over the years. The only ones I didn't care for the ride of were aluminum. No more aluminum for me.
Medium Rick what didnt you like about aluminium frames?
Had a steel frame bike commuting to college . . . and still have it 20yrs later. It has big 1.5 inch tires and a great ride. Custom gearing but a little rust on the chain stays. Love it till the rust god takes it away. Did have one wreck, which destroyed the front wheel but no damage to the frame or fork. She is heavy but a blast to ride fast downhill with the tall gearing :)
Still riding steel bikes, mainly because I can't afford to replace them. :)
As a builder of steel frames I have to say this is a really good article. I have to agree that a lot of people do rave about "how good steel rides "' and " the feel of steel". I don't disagree that this s true but believe that the geometry of the frame plays a huge part in this . This is where custom comes into it. If you want that feeling, approach a custom builder ( small self promotion here) and talk about your needs. Make sure they hear what YOU are asking for. Be prepared to pay more for that experience and possibly wait a while because a well made item takes time, but look forward to not being disappointing in the end
I was hit by a car while riding my 2002 Bianchi Chromo Lite. I dove away from the bike while the driver ran over my rear wheel. Crushed Campy wheel and rear derailleur. The derailleur dropout was bent in at a 90 degree angle. Took it to the shop and they bent the dropout back into shape with a crescent wrench. Checked the angles and have ridden it for six years since with no issue. Carbon frame would have been in pieces.
Charlie Dillon I assume this was steel not aluminium
The "Chromo" in the name implies it. (CrMo steel)
That a carbon frame would have been in pieces is just speculation on your part. A car ran in the back of me, completely destroyed the wheel and damaged the rear derailleur but did nothing to the carbon frame, not even a bent drop-out. The frame is still going strong over 20 years later. Who knows what would have happened if I had been on a steel frame; I don’t because I wasn’t. In some accidents frames get damaged and in others they don’t, irrespective of the material.
Did you have a replaceable derailleur hanger by chance? My point was my frame was bent to a full 90 degree bend, sat for a few days, and was bent back with a wrench. Carbon ain't doin' that. Anyway, glad you were lucky and got some good use out of your frame!
The hanger is an integral part of the dropout, but no, everything was fine.
Let's be honest, for most of us the extra weight isn't coming from the bike. It's on our hips 😜
my extra weight is from a certain appendage
@@mikes1984 then I wouldn’t bike at all. Those saddles suck
What about people who are over 6'6" (2 m)?
😂😂😂😂😂
Mine is not coming from my brain lol
Since there has been a lot of chemistry on this channel I think that physics should make a comeback on GCN. Maybe even make a video about the laws and theories of physics that apply to cycling(maybe even doing some calculations). I am ofcourse willing to help make such a video. I will only do it on these conditions: I want a GCN bottle, a canyon Aeroad disc, Matt's wig, a bottle of chanel no. 5, a Norwegian flag and a Si v.s. Dan lightsaber duel on Mustafar with Dan playing Obi-Wan and Si playing Darth Vader(Anakin). These terms are ofcourse negotiable.
Don't back down. All of those terms are definitely reasonable.
I fully support your claims. Can Lasty please be Emperor Palpatine then? And if Matt wants to be included too, he can be Padme, so we can have the whole scene.
sulfuratus that was implied.
What will be in the GCN bottle, and what will be stuffed down the tubes of the Canyon. That is what we really want to know? How
Niels Heldens It is rare to be in the presence of true genius.
GCN I think the one bit about the steel bikes that was missed out, is how long they last in comparison to carbon and aluminum frames. Steel frames live multiple decades and I guess no other material but for Titanium will last as long.
Nikhil Ram Mohan i've got a relay bicycle that was made in Nottingham prior to the war still ride it runs good
Plus small dmg and aluminium or carbon is likely scrapped
I own steel, aluminum and carbon road bikes. They're all fun to ride. But, I do have a soft spot for narrow-tubed steel bikes with box rims, likely because I grew up watching Le Tour in the late 80s on ESPN when I was on summer break.
My Tommasini Diamante has the Columbus Multi-Shape tubeset; my Casati Laser uses the Columbus Genius tubeset, and my De Bernardi uses the Thron tubeset. I like the Casati the best, but that is just because overall it's the perfect bike for me/
As a Materials Engineer, these recent videos are giving me stiffness in the pants. Where are you getting this information Si? Do you have a resident engineer in the GCN house?
It's steel relevant.
I rode the same aluminium mountain bike frame for twenty years. As I am in my early fifties, I began to notice the frame stiffness more particularly over rough surfaces. I had an old 1997 full cromoly Gary Fisher Marlin frame and recently transferred all the components from the aluminium frame. The bike although slightly heavier is much more lively as the frame and fork flex slightly over rough surfaces making riding more comfortable similar to Reynolds 531, Tange and Columbus tubing. I should have done it years ago
can you review bamboo as a frame material
yes fam
I'm no GCN but I live by and have meet the guys at BOO Bicycles, I plan to hit them up in spring to try the lot, road, commuter, CX, and MTB.
They told me it shines best in MTB where you have a lot of torsional load on the frame that bamboo dampens a bit.
wouldn't you get sick of being chased by Panda's?
hahaha that comment made my day. but i dont think id have much of a problem living in Ireland. i hear the frame multiplies so buy one and you never have to worry about buying another frame again
or you buy one for your kid and it grows with them so you never have to buy them another bike. Until they get inadvertently munched by a Panda.
After having 3 bikes, steel (reynolds 631), titanium (3al2.5v) and a high-end carbon bike, one had to be sold. Maybe not in terms of speed, but in terms of ride enjoyment and pleasure of getting on the bike early in the morning, the steel and titanium bikes made the carbon redundant.
I agree with you. I have everything from Tange Prestige, True Temper, Reynolds to Ti to Carbon as well as aluminum. I absolutely love my Reynolds 531 steel bike. But my GT Edge Ti is insanely comfortable. The carbon bike feels dead to me. I know a lot has to do with your tire width and pressure, but man, I love my steel and Ti bikes. I also admire the craftsmanship that goes into building a steel or Ti bike.
How does the Reynolds 531 stack up against Reynolds 520? I'm considering buying the 2017 Jamis Renegade Expat but I'm second guessing the 520.
Sorry, I meant Reynolds 853, not sure why I typed 531. Not sure about the 520, never rode it. Good luck with your choice though!
@@pastagreyhound
853 = Brilliant Tubes
Simon is consistently brilliant in these technical vids. Truly putting the "Si" in "Science". Or, err... "Si-ence". :/
Damn, you stole my joke.
I've had 2 custom steel frames previously and a few factory made and got a carbon bike for last season. I was quite underwhelmed. Naturally the lesser weight does make it slightly faster uphill and on fast accelerations, which was expected, but the overall character of steel and it's capability to soak up uneven tarmac and sort of spring load your energy (if that makes sense) makes up for the weight penalty tenfold.
The steel vs aluminium/carbon comfort is certainly a common feature bonus that I've heard about. The thing is, you can engineer all of the materials, within limits, to specific ride qualities. I just wonder how much of this is about customer preferences vs. actual material performance.
That said, I've never ridden a steel frame road bike, they went out of mass market before I got interested. Getting one just for the experience (and switching frames once in a while) is certainly tempting.
nimeq titanium should give you even more comfort, at lower weight. I got myself a titanium MTB frame, and it definitely feels great. I'll definitely consider it for a road bike but it would be great to see a video where they talk about it, since they are less common and it's hard to find a bike to test
As much as I love my two classic steel frame road bikes, I would jump at the opportunity to ride a titanium frame. As you said, though, they are exceedingly rare (even in bike-friendly Minneapolis) and they are expen$ive.
I've ridden and raced different steel, carbon, titanium and aluminum frames since I first started racing in 1987. By far, the most agile and high performance ride has been a Scott CR1 (saunier duval edition). This is in comparison to a Basso Gap (columbus SL), Kellogg (ishiwata 020), Giant Team TCR, and a Merlin Road, in addition to others such as Devinci, Fetish, and cannondale. I still have all these bikes, btw, in addition to several others. My comment is - if you didn't have your mind blown by the performance of a well--built carbon frame, you weren't riding a well built carbon frame. There really is _no_ comparison. There is a reason the pro's ride carbon, and it isn't because they're paid to. They ride the bike that will help them win. This is why you sometimes see a pro riding a bike with a name on it (usually the teams frame sponsor) that was built by someone else - and it's never a steel frame anymore.
Zen Cycle - Complete BS!
Loads of high level national cross and road races are won on titanium, steel, and aluminum bikes each year.
Pro's ride what the sponsors give them, and by and large the largest bike companies out there that have the $$$ to sponsor pro teams are pushing carbon fiber bikes because that's what they mass produce and make the most $$$ off of.
I've ridden a Crumpton, a Parlee, and a custom Calfee and none of them blew me away with their performance. Used to have a Look 585 carbon fiber frame, a pretty well regarded frame ridden by several top euro teams. Nothing overly amazing about it either. Have ridden both Specialized S Works, and Cannonale CF bikes (both have been ridden by multiple TDF Pro teams). Again, nothing that blew me away or suddenly out of the blue made my performance shoot to the moon.
At the end of the day it is always about the engine, and no carbon fiber frame including a Scott is going to suddenly make anyone worlds faster or worlds better. Components and wheels have gotten so light that any reasonably well built steel or ti frame with a CF fork and a nice set of light CF wheels and can easily be brought down to at or very near the UCI weight limit so there is no huge weight advantage either when you look at the total bike package.
I have a steel Vanilla as one of many examples that with Dura Ace and my Zipp wheels is 14 lbs and change in a size that would be the equivalent of what most frame makers call a stock 57 size. And that bike rides as fast and as well as any of the "high foot" CF frames I have ever ridden including the Look, the Parlee, the Specialized, and the Crumpton, which are all regarded as very good CF frames.
A guy name Alejandro Valverde (not a bad rider, LOL) rides a Canyon Ultimate, yet often trains on old school steel frames, and is on record saying he could easily ride several of those frames in races and be competitive with the right groupsets and wheels.
I in love with my columbus steel bike, I like how I feel every pour on the road. It weighs just under 10 KGs, for me it's as light as a feather, no need for carbon
Very much liking these engineering/design videos Si's been doing :D
Simon Richardson, a.k.a.. "Si Ri The Science Guy".
Having owned all materials, it really does come down to the engineering and in the case of steel, tube selection and most of all - geometry but my favorite bikes to ride are my steel bikes.
Your UA-cam clips never disappoint! What a great service you provide. I ride an old 1989 Cinelli during the shoulder seasons, and a carbon Colnago during the heat of the summer here in Canada. I truly enjoy riding both bikes. You're absolutely right in declaring that one cannot reach the conclusion that one material is better than the other. It depends. At age 56, I'm finding a greater affinity for steel because of the forgiving ride quality. Speed, on the other hand, diminishes with each passing year. LOL.
I ride steel everyday ... unless you're riding for competition there's really not much difference
un less your racing super enduro bat shit intercontinental masacisam and then steel ftw
Brian Cartoscelli I race a carbon Sava bike but my training is 90% on a GMC Denali 6061 30 lbs alloy. People always ask me why are you so slow during training but win on race day? I point to their bike and say : Is that the bike you trained with ? Their answer is YES . I tell them next time take a backpack and add 18 lbs to it then go train and tell me how it goes. They storm off looking pissed.
If you train for same amount of the time, it doesn't matter on what bike, because the watt you produce will be the same just at lower speed.
if you train at same distance then you are right, because you maintain the watt output for longer period time on a slower bike
Sorry for my English :D.
Sharif Naddaf Indeed it's the same 40 km course. On the Carbon it feels like a joke. On the 14 kg road bike it is a challenge. In my opinion ( just me ) a 6 kg bike does not add enough resistence to train for maximum output on shorter courses. 14 KGS with 175 lbs + 25 km wind going 32 km/hr is not that easy to pull off. And you will need some legs to pull that off for 40 km straight. Not many can pull it off specially on a 14 kg bike with 32c tires . That is the type of training I do. This is why I train on a heavier bike as the resistence is passed to the legs much faster and your body has to maintain a constant flow of oxygen to maintain those speeds. Some pros actually do this type of training. They use the same bike but loaded with bottle weights. This type of training is never discussed because it really is only for top level cyclists who want to have that extra edge. Looking at Chris Froome for example if we both did a short 20 km course with 14 kg bikes Chris Froome would be dropped in the first km. However if we both did a 200 km course on 14 kg bikes ( full max output ) I would be dropping out at 70 km and would DNF. Different bodies , different tools. Long distance smaller weight and lighter bike. I am built more for track cycling so 200km runs are not possible ( at full max output).
Idk the times for pros haven’t changed much since they still all rode steel so I think in reality it’s just like carbon, quality is what matters not material
I started with an aluminum frame and moved to steel. Never looked back, steel is more comfortable. And at 8kg for the whole bike it's pretty light
But it's no longer durable.
Shannon Trainer yes it is. Way more. Can carry. Tons of cargo too, that’s why touring bikes are made out of it.
@@shannontrainer5857 It's easily the most durable material you can make a bike from while aluminium being the least durable.
Kandi Klover That’s because those use much thicker steel. The Trek 920 is made out of... wait for it... aluminum.
@@shannontrainer5857 I would never call a trek 920 the best bike.
American framebuilder Rob English showed his 9.9-pound stainless steel road bike at the North American Handmade Bicycle Show last year. The possibilities with steel are endless. Just like carbon "frubber" or whatever Simon said. :)
Mike Marino Rob is British ex pat
Also, a steel frame, being ferrous, will set off the traffic control switch that is buried under the pavement at the intersection. Other materials aren't going to work so well.
Are you being serious though? No wonder the lights didnt turn for me when I was on aluminum bike lmao
@@ripp3rjak934 Try tipping it over on it's side. An engineer told me an orthogonal loop of metal works best to trigger a lot of them (different types of sensors so won't always work). I forget exactly how they they work - something to do with induction loops - so his rec was to tip the bike over on it's side to help trigger. I believe this is why motorcycles still have trouble despite being largely steel - it's the geometry (and cars have enough metal they don't need the geometry). Also look for grooves in the street to pinpoint the sensor - sometimes it's in the crosswalk.
Another tip I heard - try securing an active RF anti-theft sticker/tag (can't be deactivated by cashier) from a store to the bottom of a chainstay. I think I was able to confirm that one worked for me, but only slightly scientifically.
For camera-initiated traffic lights, I think you can turn the bike sideways, but I think they work better than the induction loops in the first place for bikes.
Excellent video! As an old "Biker" friend would say.. "there's only two kinds of bikers in this world... those that ride Harleys, and those that don't"! The advantages... and the disadvantages are not "cut & dried", more personal preference. I learned a lot about steel, thanks.
Steel most definitely is real! 👍. I ride a Mason Resolution and the ride quality is absolutely beautiful! Yes my Madone is lighter and faster, but I feel it lacks one important quality that the Steel Mason has LOADS of... Character! Just sublime.
Good to hear about the Resolution....I was looking at getting a Mason bike
I still have my first custom built Ciocc from 1985... it's a thing of beauty and rides like a dream. 6 speeds in the rear with Shimano 600 SIS first itteration. Only issue after a 1/4 century was having a drop tube shifter fail and I found a new old stock one at a local bike shop that has been around longer than I have (and I'm about to turn 56.)
I still have a Spectrum built for me by Tom Kellogg in 1986. It's 8 spd. DA equipped built for Crits. It is STILL the quickest handling, fastest responding, bike I own. Every time I bring it out I wonder why I'm not on it more.
I love the history of steel as a bike frame material, it goes back 150 years. It might not be the best, but it is the original, and I really like it !
Definitely the most informative and credible source of bicycling information that I’ve seen.
I’ve watched most of your videos, as well as many others, and consider yours among the best.
Thanks.
I steel ride in winter my steel Bianchi 1998. When temperature is low (2°c-5°c) i feel the frame stiffer. But, when temperature change, out of the saddle i literally feel the frame torsion. Ma opinion is; power transfert is the worst point. Comfort... i don't now, in winter i ride less... Great video, thanks!
I had them all. Carbon frames, aluminium frames and steel frames. In my humble opinion no material can beat the ever lasting effect of a steel frame. Just got an old Columbus Aelle frame from the 1980th, the colour was removed and I measured the frame before reinking it. Apart of some small barely visible dents there was no sign it has ever been used before and it was perfectly straight.
So if you don't want to compete with pros or ambitous amateurs a steel frame is always a good choice - as you may also inherit it...
Still loving my On One Inbred after 16 years.....
One of your better, entertaining, informing issues. Thank you.
Nice video Si, a few things I would like to point address, fatter tubes are not more prone to buckling assuming that the wall thickness is the same. Fat tubes are generally going to be thinner to compensate for the weight, because increasing diameter increases stiffness more than increasing wall thickness. However, if you make the wall thickness too thin, then you start play with potential impact problems, so you have to balance it.
Next point, "elastic response" might be easier to explain as a material damping coefficient. Any material can be described as a spring and damper system. This results in a (very slight) suspension effect. A direct comparison is your modulus is your spring rate and your internal damping coefficient is well, your damping coefficient. So think of changing tube sizes, shapes and materials as changing the pressure, compression and rebound settings on your mountain bikes shock.
If I finish my homework, maybe I will do a design of experiments on frame design: comparing over-sized BB's to standard, how and where seat stays attach to the bike and seeing how that effects vertical compliance and torsional stiffness (popular buzz words in the cycling industry). It might take a few weeks to complete but if you guys would like to do a video on the results, I would be happy to share them.
Wally May Yeah we'd love it, thanks!
Same here
After watching your video, reason I bought my Mongoose Maurice Plus 2018 last week ago - thanks to your very informative video - from Philippines 🇵🇭
You missed the most important point. That silhouette!!!! How often do you see and ugly steel bike?
Great Article, thanks. Steel connects you to the heritage and romance of cycling.
Just got hold of a Colnago Super frame circa 1982. She's a beauty.
Still riding my 92 Merckx Corsa,Columbus SL,team Motorola scheme and loving it,there`s rarely a ride that I go on that I don't have to clean off other riders saliva off it from all the drooling.
Steels not real,it`s unreal.
My 1990 MASI is the same,Ive ridden it a whole lot and it doesnt have a scratch on it,killer paint and clear coat still looks new. Quad butted reynolds 753,silver soldered at low temp,internal lugs,MASI did some good work.
That's one beautiful bike you have
Ages ago I commissioned a custom steel frame. One day I saw a stock bike that was the same size, so for curiosity, I put mine right next to it to compare tube lengths and angles. I couldn't see any difference. But that doesn't mean other custom frames are just hand made versions of stockers. It did show me that I could have saved a load of money by finding a store bike that fit me.
Quality content, keep this bloke on payroll.
I love steel bikes. I own four of them and there really is a difference in ride, they have a very nice ride and have a spring feel to them that propels you forward. Steel is real.
That Saffron is a beauty!
I have 4 hardtail mountain bike frames all steel. 2 custom built. Reynolds 853 and True Temper OX Platinum (which is no longer made). I have owned Aluminum and Carbon frames. But will always prefer steel frames. Can't beat the ride quality and they last forever. Sadly once the custom builders I know are gone so are the custom steel frames.
My three first bikes were steel, the third one (my first serious one) were chromoly. I loved her.
I don't know who thinks about GCN's video subjects but he (or she) needs a hefty raise. Good job !
I'm enjoying my 7005 alum bike with T800 carb fork. But I have to say there are still lots of moments when I'm missing my custom Tange 1 cromo bike. Indeed, there is a certain magic only a good steel frame can deliver.
The informative shows on steel, carbon, and aluminum frames have been great. Has there been or will there be one on titanium?
Thanks.
Passoni Light Steel is my ride and it is nothing short of amazing.
I agree that steel is real. I ride Trek 520 for one year and it's more comfortable than the couch. Now I can go 100 km on "washboard" gravel without any problems.
The polar section modulus was well presented.
I've got a stack of steel roadies...
1989 Raleigh Record Ace [ Reynolds 653 ]
1985 Raleigh Road Ace [ Reynolds 531 ]
1985 Raleigh Competition [ Reynolds 531 ]
1985 Raleigh Sirocco [ Reynolds 501 ]
That's a sweet ride in your video there GCN
Nothing rides like steel. Have ridden aluminum, full carbon, chromoly. All of it. For me, steel feels better than anything. Weight trade off is absolutely worth it.
There is most definately something to be said for a well made steel bicycle frame. I've seen some beautiful lugged steel frames in my day. But I'm an equal opportunity bike snob. I like beautiful bikes regardless of frame material.
Oh I was so pleased to read your comment. I just think that steel bikes are aesthetically pleasing, and thought I must just be some kind of nut!
I have a late 80's Bianchi Campione, an early 80's Motobecane (fixed gear), and a 2002 Motobecane -- All lovely steel. The Bianchi is a dream to ride. These days I spend most of my time on a 2014 Lynskey (w/ campy Chorus/Record build out, Chris King headset, Wound Up forks, Fizik saddle, Campy Eurus wheels). It's all about comfort.
So carbon is for weight whiny's, aluminum is for people that cant afford carbon and steel is for the tough guys that just want a great bike for what they do best... Riding...
Seems legit
Yep, steel's the best material for commuting.
there are people who ride steel and ti and then a bunch of people who dont know what there missing lol
Duncan De hulst wow your so tough and strong, I inspire to be as great as you
Steven Dolman lol you dont have to obey me my friend :)
Basically aluminum gets close to the rigidity of carbon fiber frames without the high cost. Steel, well good luck even finding one in your average local bike store. Also aluminum can easily be melted down and turned into other products when the bike is end of life.
I think the best bike for commuting is the 15 year old bike that nobody really wants to steal(not steel) anymore.
This is actually a great technical summary of the properties of steel 👍🏼
Rave +1 :-) Still riding my 1980's frames on club rides with no problems at all.....
Phil Ward
Me TOO
I rode a 50 pound Schwinn Fastback Stingray with a 5 speed stick shift as a kid. I did 10 miles a day on my paper route. I have considered all 30 lb. bikes a blessing ever since.
5:12 ' Carbon fribreh frame '
thanks for that pmsl niice
0:44 'Maganese'
Thank you for featuring a Campy equipped bike. Gets old seeing same old SHRAMANO equipped bikes.
The fancy internal cable routing- doesn't that open up the tubes to rust internally?
I've built two frames. Both OX Platinum. My XXL road frame is just over 4 lbs. Bike is 19 with pedals. A great material to work with!
Nice video. Thanks. I will always choose a steel frame over an aluminium frame. I still have my Fuji quad-butted steel frame from 1985. Excellent frame!!!
Regarding the comparison of tube size and thickness, I think some important points were omitted. Because aluminium is so much weaker than steel and aluminium has the nagging problem of fatigue (which, unlike steel and titanium, accrues at very low levels of stress), aluminium tubes must be made much thicker than steel. In fact, mechanical engineers are forced to design aluminium frames with much higher safety margins to account for this. So there is precious little weight advantage for a quality aluminium frame vs. a quality steel frame.
P.S. As much as I like steel, my first choice today is composite. My main road bike has a composite carbon frame and I'd love to try one with graphene when it becomes affordable. Si hit the nail on the head when he acknowledged that much of a frame's ride quality is in the design and quality of manufacture. Most of my experience has been with high-quality frames for general-purpose racing. When comparing steel to aluminium to titanium to composite, you must make sure that you are comparing apples to apples. There is a huge variety in each (especially aluminium and composite).
An excellent video, interesting and entertaining to watch. Keep em coming Si. One thing you forgot to mention is they are bombproof and you can customise them yourself. As a youngster starting back in the dark ages of the late sixties we used to get old frames strip the paint off and build them up into one off masterpieces. These we used to train and race on. Great fun and made a decent machine accessible even when you didn't have a sponsor or deep pockets. Also provided a great grounding and understanding of the basics of how to maintain your own bike. I can clearly remember on great masterpiece of an old Claud Butler frame lovingly stripped of its old rusty paint, sanded down and hand sprayed. A new set of transfers bought and put on then. the greatest expense was a set of decent secondhand Mavic hubs and rims with some tubs.
I'll stop swinging the lamp now. great video as I said.
steel is plush and very good for rougher roads and its easy to fix if you know how to weld
Well to be fair you can weld aluminium too but chances are it will brake there in 1000km.
@@Bartooc Aluminium will break sooner and the frame will never feel as good after 10 years. Steel however, can feel as good as when it rolled off the shop.
I used to ride a lugged steel Bianchi Aloro. The first bike I bought for myself. Now I ride a lugged carbon LOOK. From personal experience carbon is best for racing and steel and Ti for long distance riding. Thanks.
it's snowing where I live and I tried biking and I fell in a hole -_-
LameBeluga _23 That is precisely why you look as far ahead as you can and not 2-3 feet in front of you.
Thoughtyness so looking into the sky would be the best ? while technicly the sky is the most far away objekt i can look at ? doesn't sound that save to me :P
Thoughtyness The point was that the hole was not visible due to snow covering it...
Hilarious comments here
Is the bike okay?
I built a 15 lb bike with extra oversized 853 steel. Okay John Slawta built the frameset but I picked out all the parts and assembled it.
Upcoming: Titanium.
There already is titanium like on Litespeed bikes.
Upcoming²: Magnesium
Magnesium
Upcoming: Scandium the least known frame material
my first proper road bike was a steel Scapin. same frame ridden by Gibo to win in the giro 2001. Lovely bike, still have it
My bicycle(2014 Trek 520) and I survived a car incident. We are still moving great today. A Will of Steel along with a Frame of Steel make a perfect match.
one of the best presenters period.
Love my Surly LHT. For a touring bike I don't think there's anything better than steel.
graphine.
A 183g graphene frame.
famous for its chainstays that crumple with kick stand clamps. Might as well have carbon. Really though I like steel, just don't know why surly is so stubborn about saving a few grams on their chainstays. Seems they've just become dug in on being right on it.
I've had all three materials for bike frames and I admit that aluminium was the most unforgiving although stiff. Steel is very stiff and comfortable to ride on(And I had the entire rear replaced) Carbon is very comfortable though but very expensive.
steel is an amazing material i only ride steel if you never rode a propper steel bike i highly recomend you do
The welds on that frame are f'ing amazing. A hell of a lot of care went in to making that frame.
As someone who rides an RLT 9 Steel, it is PLUSH!!!
Dear Simon, thanks for this video which makes justice to modern steel frames technology.
Thanks for your most interesting video. I enjoy your work. Much that recommends steel is lightly touched on here. Research over, say, the past five to ten years has suggested that a bike with the right kind of flex -- a flex that steel bikes with thin walls delivers -- yields higher performance. It gives back, especially during intense performance, say, hill climbing. Jan Heine in the U. S. terms this phenomenon "planing". You just hinted at this with "springiness". I suspect that the blind devotion to stiffness has gone by the way side in light of what I mention this. Also, the weight argument against steel is real, but not strong. Often it's the equivalent of the difference between a water bottle full or empty.
I had the luxury of having a steel bike custom built for me. I have owned many bike before, and since, made of all sorts of materials, but none have even remotely compared to the steel frame.
Steel is real but Ti is fly!
If steel is stiffer than titanium & aluminium... then why do so many people claim steel frames give the most comfortable ride, because it's more flexible?
It sounds like you're an advocate for carbon fibre throughout most of this, given how reluctantly you were to tout the benefits of steel.
Rust is mostly solved by using stainless steels, such as Reynolds 953 or similar. Repairs on steel are much easier to guarantee, carbon repairs are a very risky business, and carbon itself is prone to many invisible flaws straight out of the factory.
Alex Paulsen Well it's tricky because steel just doesn't trump carbon in many areas at all. Yes stainless doesn't rust but man alive is it expensive. You can buy cheap carbon but not cheap stainless.
Also, from what I'm told stainless is hard to re-weld, whereas actually carbon repair is very secure.
Can't argue with your last point but mas sproduced steel bikes also break.
Simon Richardson 21 years later and my steel frame is still going strong. Composites are the future of lightweight bicycles, but the touring and randouneuring guys will definitely have a strong bias to "reliable" old steel. Either way, both are still more enjoyable than aluminium. Carbon repairs are still a specialist repair, especially if you want to be able to trust it. Any good frame builder can probably reweld one of their own frames and guarantee it.
It's perhaps the only thing I don't like about GCN and how cycling is evolving: all the buzz about technology and materials, all the needs and wants you're talked into (electronic shifters, hydraulic brakes, sliders on your frame, 'aero'). That's not what cycling is about for me. That's as fascinating as hearing a carpenter talk about windows.
We recently bought double-butted aluminum bikes for my sons. I am wondering how much a difference does double-butting make in an aluminum bicycle? Double-butting is actually the property of most steel bikes that gives it the great reputation for springy response on the road ...
I’m a big guy and steel is all I ride. Everything else wobbles and twists with every crank
Have you tried a high end carbon bike? One with thick tubes? I have a full carbon bike Nike (used to have chromo, steel, and aluminum). All the bikes were fun and I rode them all into the ground, but one think I noticed about the carbon bike is it’s intense stiffness. Tho I’ll say, some carbon bikes are designed to flex in certain areas to give the rider more comfort, it’s called Carbon Fiber Tuning. They can make the bike as stiff as they want, or make it flex. Try to find a stiff carbon frame (race variant, they don’t flex so much)
Sorry just realized this is a year old reply.
@@KillersFromTheWest Do you have a specific name of bike that has stiff carbon frame, what do you ride?
Well done, Simon.
steel is real
real.. prone to rust
Only if you don't do your maintenance every once in a while.
Does that mean i'm not real? Wait, i'm typing this on a plastic keyboard. What's happening?
Holy shit.
I'M JUST AN ILLUSION
Juan Bautista I ride a Buff Mirage it is really steely good.
Prone to rust if you don't look after it probably and leave it out in the wet and damp! I know someone with a 50 year old steel frame. Resprayed looks great and no internal damage. Keep it dry and wipe it down after it gets wet. Superficial rust will form eventually, but can be removed. If you don't look after it, then yes it will rust badly after many years. If you don't shave or wash you will have a long beard and stink after a year! Look after your bike and it will look after you!
Great vid. I have 2 old peugeots one UO8 that is steel and a PS10 which is 531 reynolds. They ride wonderfully!
steel frame +campy = perfection
+ Columbus Gilco.
Carbon plus 105=perfection without rhe pricetag
Steel is like an all around character/hero in gaming. Others are more case specific materials. Yet you can tank with an agility hero depending on your level(engineering/design/brand/model/ridingskill)
i had steel ram but i changed it to the aluminum its way easier to climb uphill with alimunium so i coulndt belive myself.
I think the characteristic I feel the most between materials is their frequency it gives off of the road. AL is very high frequency, Steel low and carbon lower, even muted. The difference is I feel fresher after three hours on Carbon. since I started on Steel, it' feels normal, the baseline. AL is too high (unless racing) and carbon normal but I feel less beat up after the ride.
One thing you didn’t mention which is one of the most important factors of steel is its fatigue characteristics.
Steel (without corrosion) can in theory last forever, under a certain stress steel can withstand any number of stress cycles, aluminium however no matter how much stress it receives will fatigue over time ending in catastrophic structural failures.
I agree aluminum is the most dangerous material you can use for biking, I'm writing this from experience and I've used steel, aluminum and carbon.
So cool to see an old school frame well done like that
EDDIE MERCKX Rode steel!!!!! Enough Said...
Eddy really wanted carbon, but he couldn't afford the time machine.
I love steel bikes. I've never rode a carbon bike but sure do love steel over aluminum. Weight isn't an issue for but I enjoy the feel off steel. And I love the look of a retro steel look.
I've seen pics of carbon bikes that riders post that have actually have broken in half😮
That bike is making me stiff.
My Gios Super Record is 35 years old and just as comfortable to ride as it was the day I built it up. I doubt that a plastic bike would even be safe to ride after that many years. The weight issue is a red herring. The frame weight is only about 20% of the total weight of the bike. You can save weight elsewhere where it doesn't effect safety and comfort.
Steel all the way for myself
Hey, I am now doing a PhD in the institute of ferrous technology and in my opinion, this a well brief explanation of steel properties in general and not touch into over complex subjects of it. Great job Simon. One thing I would like to say is that you can just say "stainless steels" when you talk about the corrosion resistance steels since I think most people know it in general anyway.
Nithi Saenarjhan I am also doing a PhD in the university of Lah-Lah Land and I completely agree.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graduate_Institute_of_Ferrous_Technology
I was expecting something more interesting from a PhD. Very disappointing.
"sulfur", "aluminum", "fiber", "customizable".
Y'all done got yourselves a subtitle writer from the US of A?
And it will come back and bite you on the ass, wtf. This guy sure knows his ve- a-hickels!
2001 Steel frame Bianchi Eros (WSD) for a beginning female cyclist who may also use the bike to get around town in the city OR a carbon frame Trek 2018 Domane SL5 (WSD). Both are used, in super condition, and around the same $750 price. The former has old Campy Mirage, the latter has newer Shimano 105. I think of the Trek as leaning more toward road riding only and not really for city use, but I'd be curious to hear your opinion. My guess is that you're more of a roadie and would jump on the Trek immediately. Both my girl and I are in our 50's, so we aren't gonna be racing any time soon. ???