The Klingon Bird of Prey Shouldn't Exist
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- Okay, hear me out before you go all Commander Kruge on me...
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I always thought the term bird of prey was a human term for those ships which was adopted by the federation.
This
yes like the names NATO gives to russian equipment, like Foxbat or Fulcrum
I considered that, it you hear the Klingons refer to the ship as a Bird of Prey multiple times.
@Stu1701 could be a Universal Translator thing.
Like maybe the term Bird of Prey refers to a general type of ship more than a specific class. Like each language would have there own word for a heavily armed light craft, but going through the UT will come out as the same word
@@ryanhau1073I assume this, like why would kilngons and romulans talk about minutes and kilometers?
Perhaps the names "Bird of Prey" and "Warbird" are not the original names for the spaceships, but are names that humans have given to these types of ships. In the respective original languages, the ships would then have their own names. 🤔
Indeed, much like the NATO reporting names given to soviet equipment that bore little to no resemblance to the soviet designation for the same equipment.
@@AUScorpionlike the SU-57, i don't know if it has a proper Russian name, but NATO uses the term 'Felon' and it stuck
@@enterprisethesylveon5787 Yeah, this. "Bird of Prey" is a best a translation of the actual name. This is also the way we have names like "Borg Cube" and "Borg Type 03"... that's just what the Feds call them.
The Enterprise mantra for all the continuity violations is "Temporal Cold War."
There's also option 3: convergent evolution in design. They're both aggressive, predatory empires with a martial philosophy. The Klingons especially glorify cunning and hunting, the thrill of the chase and victory by any means. It's not a stretch to assume that their homeworld or some colony has a winged creature to inspire the B'rel design (and antecedents). The Romulans meanwhile fully utilise a bird or raptor like creature in their whole iconography. So it's easy for outsiders to designate their craft with bird-like qualities. They shared technology resulting in the Romulan Khenn battlecruiser and quite possibly the Klingons learning how to cloak, but the fact that Klingons and Romulans culturally and militarily evolved to something similar meant that there wasn't a great deal to share between themselves anyway.
US Fighter names:
-Eagle
-Falcon
-Osprey
-Raptor
-Hawk
Even the Federation has a Peregrine class, though ironically it's a transport ship.
As for warbird vs bird-of-prey being randomly interchanged and the Klingon Raptor... I think it could be chalked up the universal translator.
It's not like the Klingons actually say "Raptor", they're saying something Klingon and we're translating it.
I think so too. There's also the possibility that the Federation are just designating bird type names to enemy ship classes, not unlike the Borg just giving entire species designations instead of their stated names. I highly doubt the Romulans call their D'Deridexes a "Type-B Warbird".@@cheutho
the Romulans mention the Klingons stealing their cloak and tech in a TNG episode.
The Romulans and the Bird of Prey were also in the TOS episode "The Deadly Years" when the Enterprise is surrounded by a group of them whilst under the temporary command of Commodore Stocker, after Kirk was relieved of command due to his rapid aging. They just used stock footage of them from "Balance of Terror".
Isn't that only in the remastered version?
I would love more videos like this. Just odd quirks of a long lived franchise. Either in lore inconsistencies or real world wierdness
Both races have predatory birds on their planets - they admire them. name their ships accordingly. Humans have the same, and translate the various Klingon and Romulan phrases into the nearest equivalent. so it's sort of imprecise translation from a time translators weren't perfect, and the terms stuck.
"Two militaristic and expansionist civilizations that share a border couldn't have had much contact with each other without the Federation" is certainly a take.
It's also clearly apparent that "Bird of Prey" is functionally a ship type (aircraft carrier) rather than a ship class (Yorktown).
You forgot in Enterprise that we see Romulan T'varo warbirds and the Klingon Vol'no'tak Bird of prey. Both fit similar roles in combat and considering the Romulan specialty of infiltration the idea of a Bird of prey design could be shared without looking too deep. Remember that plans for season 5 of Enterprise we would have learned that one of Tpol's grandparents was Romulan.
I just always assumed that the terms Warbird and Bird of Prey were loose clasifications like Raider, Scout, Cruiser, or Battleship, especially since we got specific classes within, like D'deridex or B'rel. I would assume that the powers of the Alpha and Beta quadrants refer to a few Starfleet ships as either Warbirds or Birds of Prey.
What better demonstration of’infinite diversity in infinite combination’ could we get lol😊
Dude, awesome psych-out and great video. Every few moments, I was like yea but Stu .... then you would correctly answer each one of your own lead-in questions and thoughts. Nice job!
It is also possible that both the Romulans and Klingons got the BoP idea from another power quite a while ago and have evolved the type their own directions over several generations by the time of Enterprise while retaining the name. That power could have been taken over by one or both in later years or it could be on the other side of the two from the Federation to this day.
DS9 established that a lot of Klingon tech was stolen from the Hur'q so it follows that maybe that's how they got cloaking.
Top Hats shouldn't exist but here we are. 😂😂
How dare you
Perhaps it's like the NATO naming of Russian and Chinese aircraft, where NATO calls it something and the actual owners have their own name.
VenomGeekMedia does try to resolve this issue. I do like his explanation for the cloaks as not completely being cloaks.
To be fair the term "Bird-of-Prey" was never an official term for the Romulan ship. That's just how Stiles described their appearance.
KIRK: After a whole century, what will a Romulan ship look like, Mister Stiles? I doubt they'll radio and identify themselves.
STILES: You'll know, sir. They're painted like a giant bird-of-prey.
That's the only time "Bird-of-Prey" is mentioned in the episode and it's never mentioned in "The Enterprise Incident". So it was never an official designation in-universe, but a name used by fans to describe a ship which never received an official name in canon.
3:04 Why? A Bird-of-Prey is just a type of ship. Is it also weird within the lore for Klingons and Jem'Hadar both having battlecruisers? Of course not. A battlecruiser is just a type of ship. The Klingons even refer to the Constitution-class as a battlecruiser. Your confused that Klingons and Romulans would both come up with a term like "Bird-of-Prey" independently, but have no problem with aliens using terms like "battlecruiser" when terms like Frigate, Cruiser, Battlecruiser, etc are human designations?
5:47 Yeah... it's best to disregard Star Trek Discrepancy. Calling that thing a Bird-of-Prey is the least offensive thing New Trek has done to lore.
10:32 The Romulans aren't the only species in the galaxy to have birds on their planet?
I would say spies stole the cloaking tech from the other, or that since they are both aggressive empires, possibly one invaded/took over territory or a station, came across the tech, and, well... the spoils of war.
if I remember right in an interview Christopher Lloyd he stated he was a little miffed at Roddenberry due to the fact the was almost 50 at the time of shooting and was know as a comedic actor not a villain action actor that original opening for Star Trek 3 was cut which was him and his crew stealing the Bird of Prey from the Romulans .. but it was cut so he wasn't happy. so going from that .. the Klingons got it by stealing it from the Romulans .. and I go with that.
The very first thing I did when cross faction flying first came to STO was give my Romulan main the Kor Bird of Prey.
I always thought Bird of Prey was a term the Federation races used for those smaller, cloaking-attack-run ships.
Both the Romulan and Klingon Birds of Prey do this to great effect.
The Federation doesn't really have a counter to this.
Guess what the definition of raptor is?
Bird of Prey....
In my opinion there could be one explanation that could at least partially resolve that mess - terms like: Raptor, Bird of Prey or Warbird could describe the class of star ship by it mass or size like fe. Corvette, Frigate or Cruiser, and since Romulans and Klingons had some common history of conflicts before even concept of Federation was born, the less organized Klingons might adapt few 'quality of fight' improvements from their opponents (as well as salvage or capture cloaking technology).
"We don't talk about it" >.>
Yeah, one thing that Roddenbury was NOT good at, was keeping the cannon consistent.
Good info, thanks!
When I first saw the Bird of Prey was in TNG so I have always associated it with the Klingons
Easy conclusion they ships have different names that are only translated into federation standard as the same. Or the Raptor that led the Romulans under his wings was a Klingon time traveler. .
We know the Klingons had problems with the Hur'q but we don't know if the same can be said for the Romulans... if the Hur'q did interact with both, then maybe that can create a shared nomenclature for certain ship names; I know a very wild theory.
thank you, I like this kind of "side sto" content of yours. :)
Modern navies have shared ship names, Look at Eagle and Enterprise....
My guess is these are generic translations of more specific animals, like if we talk about a peregrine falcon, a Klingon wouldn’t know what that way and just say their generic term for bird of prey or raptor. And martial cultures really like their mean birds.
One thing of note is that the Klingons and the Romulans had grudging trade agreements for a long while, not necessarily alliance as such..more of a 'pay me for stuff, or I'll come take it by force' sort of thing. Also notice that long past the BoP, Romulans still have a bird motif..the War*bird* still has feather patterns on the insides of the wings, for example. It's also said that Klingons are great at weapons, not as much as shipwrights...I'm betting the Klingon BoPs were heavily inspired (if not in part designed) by the Romulans, hence the 'feather' plating motifs on the wings.
Except that the D7, was a Klingon ship, adopted by the Romulans, who struggled to build their own ship.
I can give it to you- naming conventions came from the translation technology. Bird-spaceship equals spaceship-bird.
YW.
A ship classification
So, i always Tought of it kind of this way:
I the NX era those ship was encountered first, the ships hadnt human designations yet and becouse of the shape, or other markings (like the paint job) they names it "bird of prey" and logged that designation into the data base. I don't know Wich one they encounter first, the klingon or the romulan ones but what ever kame second, the database gave out "bird of prey" as designation. They later learned to distinguish between romulan and klingon versions, but it was "to late" to reprogram everything and with the universal translators working both way "humans" always hear "bird of prey" while klingon and romulan , when human say bird of prey to a ship they hear the right words for themself.
I know it's kind of wonky but I never paid to much attantion to that. Later on for me romulans had war birds and klingon BoPs.
Ok, I have a headache now trying to keep all this straight
How do you think I fell? 😅
Sir, the technology exchange between the Romulans and Klingons was a pretty one sided affair. The Romulans gave the BOP and cloak, while the Klingons gave the out dated D-6 (not the D-7). Both ships use the same basic hull. The Klingons liked the BOP design enough to enlarge it to a destroyer, light cruiser, and heavy cruiser design. It should be noted that the Klingons also gave the Romulans warp drive which, until the tech exchange, the Romulans did not possess. The older Romulan Warbird design was strictly sublight.
I'd always figured that it was a terminology thing.
The Romulan Bird of Prey would be due to the Raptor iconography with the "Under the Raptors Wings" thing of the Romulans. Their birds of prey are, likely, the smaller raider type ships the Star Empire uses while the larger ships are warbirds.
The Klingon Bird of Prey seems to be more of a name based on the look of the ship, the shape of the ship being the name and the name then carried to other, similar, designs there. It's a hunting ship...
That both are essentially scout/raider/patrol ships tend to be something else that left the name sticking around for them
the Romulan one is really called a warbird the name bird of prey was given to it by starfleet due to the class and size being like other known ships the same thing can bee seen with the D7 as both factions used that ship under a name chosen by its user and due to times in the past when the empire was allied with the Romulans we can assume some names may of been carried over also if the proper order within cannon is to be followed then the Klingon version is the first we see in the time of archer
What @trekman8188 said. In Klingon, the actual designation is probably "toQ" or something similar. The name "T'liss" is literally Romulan for "bird-of-prey."
Also...seriously, different cultures name things the same all the time. It's really not that far-fetched. Birds of prey are agile, aggressive hunters - it makes sense that multiple cultures would completely independently use them as symbols of quick and fearsome warships.
Klingon Bird of Pray was to be Romulan, but they change it at the last minute. They want to say with the Klingon for the story arc.
The whole Discovery giving Klingons cloaks a decade early I can head cannon away. When Discovery found a way to penetrate the cloak on the Sarcophagus in "Into The Forest I Go", it worked for all Klingon cloaks at the time, making them obsolete. "The Enterprise Incident" theory can then still stand, as the Romulans provide the Klingons a new cloak Starfleet doesn't yet know how to penetrate yet.
Doesn't totally resolve the inconsistencies, but I like it.
I don't think it's that strange that they both had a bird of prey ship. Nearly every culture on Earth has vampire legends. And at the time each one was created, a lot of those cultures had no knowledge of the others existence. And yeah, you said it best at the beginning. Sixty year old problems. Someone squeed into the rafters at getting to work on the show and just wanted to throw things in they thought were cool.
Raptor also means... Bird of Prey...
Dont forget in tng the Duras sisters were in bed with the romulans alot. So that also hints to the past connections. Hell, maybe the romulans gave the duras family "klingon birds of prey" back in the day, and that is what allowed the duras house to become very influential and powerful among the other great houses?
2:36 so personally I always thought that we should see a smaller ship than the Klingon BOP, as a warship it’s fine it’s a lord calling his banner men to fight for him (aka crew his ship) but most of the smaller houses should probably also have a ship not the level of a lord but back in the day you had
the man at arms/militia = no seen Klingon equivalent, I guess you could say this is the Klingon warrior but I’m using him next.
The trained soldiers/mercenary = the Klingon warrior.
Knight aka well trained soldiers with a bit of power/money = no seen Klingon equivalent.
Knight that can afford Full armour = no seen Klingon equivalent.
Knight with full armour and a horse = (this is the part I think we should have seen a smaller ship, about runabout size)
Lord able to call all the ones under him to his banner = house that owns 1 or more BOP depending on size and power.
Dukes, Barons and the like = houses that own a battlecruiser or two.
But let’s be real Star Trek has always had a problem with smaller ships I mean we really should see more fighter craft than we do the only time we did was at the end of Discovery season 2 were the two ships pulled a fleet of fighters and drones out their buts, I mean the Enterprise D had something like 14 docking bays but from what we saw on screen only owned 1 shuttlecraft 🤦
Fighters are used in the Dominion War.
@@NihilusShadowI remember then using runabouts but not single/duo man crafts but it’s been a while since I watched it (sadly I just don’t have time) so I could easily have forgotten it.
That said I do stand by the idea that fighters/carriers are a very under used thing in Star Trek it’s actually one of the things I like about Andromeda, a ship like the Andromeda ascendant has dozens of fighters and drones that can be piloted by the crew or just ran by the Ships AI (it’s also funny that a single man fighter craft can be fitted with a missile that can destroy a sun and is there version of warp capable, imagine if a faction like the Dominion or Borg got hold of that tech😱).
I've always known it as the Klingon's stole the Bird of Prey designs from the romulans, I don't know why or where I got the idea from (Mom raised me off of Star Trek, and I'm currently 30) so I have no idea where I got the infomation from
Just like to say it's quite simple are names given by the federation not the klingons or romulans the actual name is the brel class
We just don't know what the romulqns called there ship
Well the Klingons obviously designed the Bird of Prey after the most frighting and aggressive Earth creature they could find - something their diplomats saw Starfleet officers fleeing from when charged by it at the pond outside Starfleet Headquarters - the fearsome Canada Goose! If that animal caused Starfleet Captains to flee in terror on the ground why not make their new ship in the shape of the ferocious creature to cause the cowardly Starfleet Captains to cower behind their chairs in crippling fear as it decloaked and charged at them out of the black?! The Humans' worst fear made manifest - a giant angry space goose! Peace was never an option! Glory to the Empire!
Klingon Battle Goose when?
2:30 let’s be real it’s the producers that are dumb and don’t understand it and are sure they are the smartest people in the room so if they don’t get it no one else possibly can.
Ok so hear me out.... What if the romulans were the antagonists in ST 3... the warbird could be stolen... by the son of the romulan commander from BOT. He would seek revenge on kirk for killing his father. Everything happens on genesis like it does in the original film up until the death of David, this time he'd be killed my the romulan commander himself. It would be broadcasted to kirk on the severley damaged/disabled enterprise. Kirk would react as he did in the original but challenge the commander to a fight to the death and kirk winning that fight, then take command of the romulan bird of prey and set a course for Vulcan with voyage home starting with the Vulcans almost blowing them out of the sky.... srry for the long comment but I thought of this and thought it was great and had to get it down b4 I forgot😅
Perhaps it is better to think of it as a type or class of ship/role. Even modern Navy's and Air Forces, copy or steal designs for one another. Cannon in story lines is modern day nerd thing. Star Trek stories were written by numerous authors and they were happy to even making episodes to worry about establishing cannon/vision. In reality, the number of authors that super developed a world continuity is very small, Tolkien perhaps the most well known. Also one of the advantages of JMS and B5 who did create those worlds. I think the simplest answer is because back in the day filming models was very costly as was building them. They only had a few models to work with. In modern CG times ships are easily designed, and with a thought for toys and merchandizing. Even in the early days of CG art it was still insanely costly.
@Stu1701 Let me correct you in one bit of critical info, the romulan ship was "Never" called a bird of pray in tos. That was nothing more then a fan made term, but was never in the show itself. So yes the Klingon bird of pray was the first "offical" ship called as a bird of pray.
They call it the b'rel bird of prey so not really the same the romulan bird of prey
DID YOU JUST REFER TO THE '80S AS 20TH CENTURY?!
I was there! How dare you denigrate me!?
No, I referred to Omar Sharif as a 20th century actor, quoting the article from Star Trek Magazine that covered Kruge and how he was originally to be Romulan.
Also, I was born in the 90's 😅
D’deridex is king
Don't they share a border?
by the original series, yes, but we have no idea how long that's been the case.
❤2👍 please give us more videos like this
NATO/Federation reporting name.
I am a nerd of prey 😒
WAIT, this isn't a weird hate video, well time to turn off the video #romulan
I'm the 666th viewer...nice