Das Orthotonophonium
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- Опубліковано 10 кві 2020
- Ein Wunderwerk der Technik - 72 Tonstufen pro Oktave, in allen diatonischen Tonarten können reine Intervalle und Akkorde gespielt werden! Die Idee zu diesem Instrument hatte in den 1870er Jahren der Leipziger Physiker Arthur von Oettingen. Das Orthotonophonium unseres Museums stammt von der Stuttgarter Firma Schiedmayer, die es 1914 in von Oettingens Auftrag gebaut hat. Vorgestellt wird es von Benedikt Brilmayer, wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter am Musikinstrumenten-Museum.
I'm just flattered that the youtube algorithm thinks I can speak German. Thank you, I can't. But I like the video.
You can turn on CC with automatically translated captions. It won't be perfect but it clears up a lot.
It displays captions in German.
@@mixtlillness9825 Under the Gear menu and then "Subtitles/CC", pick "German (auto-generated)". Then go to the same menu again and you should find "Auto-translate".
@Rhizosphere Ah, I'm watching on desktop so I had that option. UA-cam is silly sometimes.
On Android this option also doesn't exist.
O.k. ... Let me try to translate the essential thing! (Maybe the employee of the museum will provide a complete translation himself some day?) The thing is that the "Orthotonophonium" has not an equally tempered tuning like an ordinary keyboard, where we have the same interval between all 12 tones of an octave. The instrument rather provides the "same" tone in slightly different pitches, so that you can play the chords of all the different keys in "just intonation", where e.g. a perfect fifth always has a frequency ratio of 2:3 or a major third a frequency ratio of 5:4. So it sounds very pure as long as you stay in the same key, but if you mix differerent keys that do not match, then you get the dissonances that Mr. Brilmayer demonstrates in the video!
Thanks!
You are a LEGEND!
❤️❤️❤️
Thank you!
Thanks, I suspected it was along those lines because harmonics don't always match the frequency we are seeking, as I'm experiencing first hand as I learn to play a trombone--at some higher notes, the slide has to be placed at a slightly different position to compensate for the difference, which some first-position (i.e., slide completely retracted) tones are considered unusable because they are somewhat flat, thus can't be raised so the note had to be played using a higher-level harmonic coupled with a more-extended slide.
Teacher: The test isn't that confusing
The test:
The way he speaks german is really clear. I was able to understand most of it with my basic understanding of the language 👍
thought the same thing
Thought the same as Luke Phillips
because he speaks harmonically pure.
Hahaha yes of coures it's clear german without dialects... This standard. And here sentinces is short in style of explaine.
@@ottospalt4892 my German is better than your English though 😅
Its not out of tune, it has multiple tunings - tuning is relative, so its only out of tune if you play different rows at the same time. Very useful if you're playing different songs in the same set, accompanied by instruments with fixed-tuning like mallet percussion or an organ but with different tuning from song to song, or passage to passage. Or you could do what this guy did and make a horror soundtrack
it's not out of tune if you play multiple rows either, and arguably even a standard 12TET piano is out of tune
@@KatzRool thats true for new age music and I agree with you on an academic level, but for the purpose of playing generally consumed music, separate rows are dissonant don't produce a very commercially lucrative sound hence why everyone hates it lol. I know what you're saying, tonality and temperament is a human made construct, but if everythings relative all the time then nothing means anything
@yongeWok Really, new music or very old music. Detuned seconds, thirds, sixths, and sevenths can actually sound MORE consonant, which is what Bach and many of his contemporaries did, but we don’t anymore because equal distances between each note means you can play in all keys with one tuning system.
@@feeeshmeister4311 Yeah for sure, musicians usually also play notes more flat or sharp depending on the key. Equal Temperament was convenient so as to not retune for each new key, but with computers you can load different temperaments with a click, so yes tuning is very relative. But I’m saying the demonstration not an example of those consonant intervals that exist outside of equal temperament.
Maybe someone may deliberately play different rows on the thing, it means its deliberately out of tune which is fine if thats the intention. And each row is in tune with itself but that doesn’t mean the rows are in tune with each other. But the intonation or lack thereof of the different rows of this thing doesn’t really have to do with temperament, that is within the row, unless of course you’re switching rows in order to play in a different temperament. That’s just not what happened in the demo though, so thats why I’m saying for general conversation the rows (as units) are out of tune with each other if you’re playing two voices diatonically or chromatically one up a quarter tone and the other down a quarter tone for instance.
Dude's playing a file cabinet.
It certainly sounds like one.
😂😂😂💯
That’s what I thought also lol
Das ist ein sehr interessantes Instrument! Von weitem bilden die Tasten ein wunderschönes Mosaik.
He's playing the first two bars of Mozart's Piano Sonata No. 16 in C Major
Thank you. I had mistaken it for a piano concert
Is it forbidden where you live ? Don't you know the Mozart composed everything in C, using a transposing keyboard ? ;-)
Mozart, who's that? Does he play for Bayernmünchen or Stuttgart? He's probably a new goaltender/netminder, right?
@@dustymiller65 yeah
UA-cam recomendations brought me here. And I even can't understand German! But I like this video
Same here
Thanks for sharing great, diverse, and unknown instruments!
The cool thing is that if you are a terrible keyboard player, you sound perfect on this.
Even if you are a good player on a normal keyboard this one is likely to do your head in, a terrible keyboard player would sound even more terrible
@@CzarDodon No, that's the genius of this instrument! It's cancels out bad playing! Like walking drunk during an earthquake.
@@PointyTailofSatan loool
Que maravilloso instrumento! Saludos desde Paraguay 👌👍
Ausgezeichnet! Dies' Instrument gefaelt mir aber. Vielen Dank!
Bitte, mehr über diese Instrument, mehr Informazione, mehr Musik...
microtonal lo-fi artists: *glowing eyes*
the last demo made me smile . Sounded great ! :-D
Merci, je découvre, car je ne connaissais pas cet instrument! Stéph.
Thank you, I'm discovering it, because I didn't know this instrument! Stéph.
Maestro, give me a complete “glissando” 😁😜
For glissando beter Kravtsov right hand accordion keys.
I can't imagine the extra thinking that would be needed to play a piece on a keyboard like this. I think this is why he has chosen to play two "wrong" examples of the first three bars of an easy piece, rather than show us what a series of modulations would sound like using just intonation.
Sounds just like the harmonium.. Great
schön dass ES sich nicht durchgesetzt hat.
ich stell mir gerade ein Akkordeonorchester mit den Teilen vor 🙌
Freue mich auf Teil 2 und 3.
Wow! Love from Oman..new fam here
Faszinierend.
Sicher war doch die Idee, das Instrument so zu spielen, dass eben NICHT Tonarten gegeneinander verstimmt sind, sondern dass so viele Akkorde wie möglich völlig rein klingen. So wie hier gezeigt tut man dem Instrument keinen gefallen, wenn es wie eine Schweineorgel klingt.
Es gibt einen Unterschied zwischen "Funtion erklären", wie er es gemacht hat, und ernsthaftem benutzen und spielen des Instrumentes.
Ursprünglich wurden Intervalle mit "kleinen" Brüchen wie z.B. 3/2 für Quinten oder 4/3 für Quarten genutzt, aber da das Stück dann in verschiedenen Tonarten anders klingt, wurde die heute gängige 12-equal-temparament-Stimmung eingeführt, wo alle Halbtonschritte gleich groß sind, aber Intervalle im ursprünglichen Sinne nur angenähert. Bach sei Dank, aber bei 1:16 und später hat der Scheinexperte da selbst in harmonischer Stimmung "falsche" Töne gespielt (einfach irgendeine unpassende gewählt), außerdem kommt uns das so fremd vor, da wir 12-equal gewöhnt sind. Hör mal ganz traditionelle Streichermusik an, dort werden viel besser klingende reine Quinten zuhauf verwendet.
@@Alexander-oh8ry Das weiß ich alles. Ich bin professioneller Musiker und stimme meine Cembali, Orgeln etc. selbst.
.....Schweineorgel 🤣🤣klingt lustig.Ich kenne nur Weltraumorgeln...😜
@@herrwaakenacker8434 Und wenn die Schweine im Weltraum dann Weltraumorgeln spielen, dann sind es Schweineorgeln. Oder ist es dann das Schweineorgeln?
I'd like to report a bug, I was playing the game "Musikinstrumenten-Museum Berlin", when I noticed the keyboard texture on some of the pianos had become corrupted. Video demonstrating the bug included above.
Das verstimmteste Instrument das es gibt !
Sehr schön.
Waoooooo very good.thanks
Das klingt sehr gut
I've seen this instrument in the museum way back then in 2009 ah the nostalgia. I think back then the museum caught fire
I have no idea what hes saying and this instrument looks like someone used the smudge tool on an organ. I love it.
Unlike the equal-tempered piano, this one has a row of keys for each...key in its physically/mathematically pitch ratios.
Imagine sitting someone who is blind like Steve Wonder in front of this thing and not describing this thing at all and tell him to just play one of his hits.
Imagine what would go through his mind XD
Steve wonder will create wonder with this thing.
Ist ja krass :-)
Interessantes Video. Das Instrument eignet sich neben dem Spielen von "normalen" Stücken definitiv auch zur musikalischen Begleitung eines Horror Films. Klingt schon sehr gruselig wenn man die verschiedenen Ebenen kombiniert.
Wow, I've never seen one of those before
I couldn't understand a single word, but I'm sure this was a very informative video. Thumbs up.
Hace muchos años diseñé un teclado para un instrumento que llamé dinarmonio, basado en la gama dinámica de 54 comas por octava que desarrolĺó el uruguayo Eduardo Sábat, el inventor de la dinarra o guitarra dinámica. Es buena cosa comprobar que el tema sigue interesando a los investigadores. Enbuenahora.
Menos mal que encontré alguien que habla castellano!!!!
It's such a lost opportunity to waste the 72-EDO tuning on a simple melody, only to "play it out of tune" in different ways, rather than playing an interesting or beautiful melody that makes best use of the nonstandard tuning.
and now people in the comments are saying it sounds crap and out of tune 🙄
This instrument would allow to play Bach's "Well Tempered Clavier" with natural intervals in all 12 keys. They could have demonstrated it, instead of putting out randomly detuned sounds.
@@andsalomoni but Bach did not intend these tunings, he wrote the well tempered piano because it was tempered and not cleanly tuned like this instrument.
@@vkroll I know, but it would be interesting to listen to it with this instrument.
Based on the choices of dissonance in WTC, I'd imagine he was working with what sounded good with the werkmeister temperament in every key. For instance the C major stuff sound pretty standard. Once you get into those obscure keys, they start sounding more dissonant, which I imagine is what the temperament sounded like in those keys and the pieces just made a more emphasis of it
I am 100% confident in my keyboard skills, but I am rubbish at draughts so I think I will leave playing this to you Sir! 🏆😉
Jacob Collier would go nuts if he had access to one of these
i guess he would be the only one on earth to properly tune it.. by ear alone.
Ein tolles Ding
Ja, klingt völlig verstimmt.
Sehr interessant
Просто спасибо Баху, что привел все в порядок.
1870, somewhere in Germany:
Everybody: "No, you can't have more than 12 Keys!"
Arthur von Oettingen: *Hold my Tuning Hammer*
And this is why this instrument didn’t make it like the piano...
I have visited that museum and it does have a truly wonderful collection of instruments. However, while you can rent a recorded audio guide, it is a pity that none of the attendants seem to have the slightest idea about any of the instruments. Also no books about the museum and the collection. A missed opportunity I think.
Pensei que já conhecia todos tipos de Instrumentos com Teclas!!!!
Cudeńko 🎁
Ich bin fassungslos....................
Wunderbar
Genau. So schief spielen muss man erstmal können. Grandiose Leistung.
Thank you algorithm, now I want one :)
I wish I could start the day over
which choices do you make to tune the tristan chord on that piano? how about minor keys?
Wonder what Jacob Collier would do with that instrument...
🙄
OMG I also think the same 😂
Not interested. Next!
Probably some jazz music
These days digital keyboards can accomodate anything this instrument provides and more... in a much more practical fashion!
So, I'm pretty sure that the likes of Jacob Collier do use these concepts a lot and they don't need monster keyboards like this.
It's fascinating nonetheless that people actually built these.
Aha, da kommen also jene Tastaturen her, worauf beispielsweise Dolores Catherino ihre chromatisch spektralen Musikstücke spielt. Danke für die Info 🎵
Interessante Tastenkonstruktion, sieht beim ersten Mal Hinschauen auch echt wirr aus. Aber es scheint spielbar zu sein.
Ga
só entendi o interessante
@@quaesitorveritatis777 eu também
Interessantíssimo!
So entendi o interessante tbm kkkk
If you enable subtitles on this, translated into English automatically, the last little performance is subtitled "[music][laughter]"...
Very interesting! Sounds amazingly terrible.
Richrad the Great: and looks frightening. I would like as a beginner to differ between those idiotically arranged keys.
@@stranraerwal Quite right!
I think its not tuned
@@JediasHertz agree.
Amei esse istrumento
Molto bene grazie.
Any chance we can hear this thing in the hands of someone who knows how to play it?
abgefahren ! 😎🤘
All i can say is
Das pretty cool
Wish it was in english, I feel I've missed the main content
I believe he just said that some guy wanted different tunings or sth, "Toonarten" idk tuning types?? So you can make different music with it than with a pianoforte (or piano, times change and I'm not really up to date with the new evolutions) because there's 5 keys for C and they all slightly differ in pitch. German isn't my main language, but I hope I helped you out a bit.
@@marije179 Thanks a lot!!!
Believe me, you missed almost nothing. I am a German conductor. The idea is, that for any tone are 5 keys of slightly different pitches in purpose of being able to play absolutely pure or meantone intonation in any key (for instance g# as a third in E maj., a flat as one in f minor a.s.o.).
There is much anger among the commentators, that the opportunity of this video isn't used at all to show this on serious examples, instead of demonstrating that the instrument also can be abused for playing "out of tune". Amazing instrument - the video is a bad joke. To me, to be honest, it seems as if they interrupted the video, which was planed much longer, after a few seconds (?).
@@borisbrinkmann I agree. A fuller demonstration would be helpful. The potential I see isn't from multiple tunings as some have said, but a purer tuning available in each key that isn't possible from most other instruments. I must go look now for other examples of this instrument being played as intended.
One User gave the hint to search for videos of Dolores Catherino, what is interesting anyway... Another instrument, different music - but you even find scores of her microtonal music...
Would've liked to have a demonstration of something like a Renaissance chorale in equal temperament and then in proper intonation, rather than a piano piece in equal temperament and then in horrible intonations.
je n'ai rien compris mais ça à l'air vraiment très intéressant. je veux en savoir plus, est-ce que ça a quelque chose a voir avec les harmoniques et les tempérament ? ça a l'air d'être un vraiment très bel instrument
Aw yes, finally I can play music out of tune on the piano
Absolutely prehistoric.
I speak no German, but there were enough cognates to let me know the gist. Then he played in the various intonations -- and I DEFINITELY understood what he was talking about.
There may be many modes, but I only use two: major and minor.
There may be many tuning methods, but I only use two: equal temperament (same -- aka uniformly offensive -- for all keys), and whatever is necessary to make the four parts of a barbershop quartet chord work correctly (determine the root, and match the naturally-generated overtones. It comes without thinking.)
A little knowledge may be a dangerous thing but, in my case, a great deal of ignorance serves me well :-)
Ö
Ничего не понятно, но очень интересно. Первый раз такой инструмент вижу
Мы с мужем недавно думали о изобретении подобного инструмента. Я утверждала, что невозможно дальше поделить ноты. Новых звуков не придумаешь, новых основ быть не может, как у собаки пятой ноги. А он не музыкант, но любит поспорить. Когда-то была диатоническая система, а потом стала хроматическая по полутонам, и Й. С. Бах воспел её в своих двух томах Хорошо Темперированного клавира. Но дальше делить это - фальшь. Я так это и представляла. Вот автор ролика поделил полутон на четверти и всё это, конечно, режет слух, а не придаёт разнообразия и выразительности музыке. Но, спасибо ему за попытку. Что и требовалось доказать.
Was the person who designed that machine on some sort of dubious medication? 🙂🙂🙂🙂
This is not the first instrument I see that has with keys tuned differently. These instruments might be useful to play microtonal music and make some pitch correction to create more mathemathically accurate intervals since music can never be perfectly tuned following the ratio of 3:2.
As far as I know.
That machine has an isomorphic keyboard, which is well suited to an instrument set up for playing in quarter-comma mean-tone temperament. It lets you play in any key signature without any notes being unavailable.
Am I the only one wanting more of this ? I am a little bit surprised that the two longest (and last) exemples implied simultaneous imperfect octaves. I cannot think of any temperament necessitating this - but I am on the "anti-12-tones-equal- temp" side. And I am desperately fond of natural thirds and fifth, so difficult to obtain from a keyboard. What about Satie's music in just temperament, with the (probably) necessary "tuning shifts" ? I suggest Satie because I guess Chopin or Stravinsky would probably be unfit - and too difficult ?- to play on an harmonium ! Beautiful sound and harmonisation, by the way !
Please play the whole K545!
I couldn`t agree more.
for a historic unique instrument you might get an accordion tech in to tune it. And perhaps a performer would could work with it to see what it can really do. It is a fascinating piece. An example of that sort of thing would be the steam calliope on my channel.
so ein geiles teil und dann nada, null, niente ein passendes beispiel???? arrrgh!! fremdschäm! wo ist denn das problem hier mal einige streichquartettakkorde anzuspielen, oder chorliteratur und den effekt der reinen stimmung zu zeigen? quasi das hilliard-ensemble des harmoniums. schade: ich wusste nicht, daß das existiert, aber so kann ichs niemanden zeigen/teilen, weil null vorführeffekt.
.... es fehlen noch ein paar Sprachen: nada, null, niente ?
@@geried. es fehlt das argument....
Funny thing is they put a stand for a partition. How do you write 1/8th tone up on a partition ??
Das Spielinstrument für Scala-Entwickler. In der Programmiersprache Scala hat man auch mind. 5 Möglichkeiten für einen Befehl.
Welcome everybody
A keyboard? -that's not a keyboard -this is a keyboard.
The name even makes it sound complex
DAS GOOD!
Desafino con el triangulo... con ese piano...😳 🥶🥴
I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry...
An extraordinary looking instrument. But the video coverage is quite inappropriate. If ever there was a case where you needed a hand held camera, this is it. The locked off wide shot makes the keyboard look like a busy pop-art picture. You have no idea what you are looking at. Only the close-up reveals it. I would love to have had the camera move round , push in, pull out and move constantly during this short piece. Then we would have gleaned some sense of the mechanics of it.
Molt pràctic!
Complicated microtonal organ
Hello everyone this is your daily dose of Recommendation
I'm Dutch so i speak German as well haha, no problem
Какой интересный какафониум ))
Ist das Teil verstimmt?
Imagine tuning that thing
Wir sitzen hier am Orthotonophonium, ein Harmonium der Firma Stegmaier das in Zusammenarbeit mit dem Physiker Arthur von Oettingen entwickelt wurde Arthur von Oettingen hatte sich Gedanken über Stimmungssysteme gemacht, und wollte ein Instrument bauen lassen, daß in einer harmonisch reinen Stimmung spielen kann.
Er wollte aber gleichzeitig auch daß man in allen Tonarten modulieren kann und zwar harmonisch reihen deshalb haben wir pro ton mehrere Möglichkeiten, die in der Tiefe gestaffelt sind. Also wir haben zum Beispiel das C in fünf Möglichkeiten.
Das bedeutet, daß wir theoretisch eben in jede Tonart modulieren können in der physikalischen reinen Stimmung das heißt aber auch daß wir sozusagen zwei verstimmte Tonarten gegeneinander ausspielen können, indem wir einfach die Ebenen wechseln… und das klingt dann ungefähr so… oder nochmal so.
We are sitting here at the Orthotonophonium, a harmonium from the Stegmaier () company that was developed in collaboration with the physicist Arthur von Oettingen. Arthur von Oettingen had been thinking about tuning systems, and wanted to have an instrument that could play in a harmonically pure tuning.
But at the same time he wanted to be able to modulate in all keys, in harmonic order, which is why we have several possibilities per tone, arranged depthwise. So, for example, we have the C in five variants.
This means that theoretically we can modulate in every key in the physical pure tuning, but it also means that we can play two out-of-tune keys against each other by simply changing rows... and it sounds like this... or like this.
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schiedmayer
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_von_Oettingen
Y afinado se puede tocar?
That is one scary-ass looking keyboard !
Closed Captioning translated to English works perfect!
Tune it.
Interessant. kommt da noch etwas? kann man da ein Türchen öffnen um reinzuschaun? ^^
This is quite like the electronic Chromatone!
I REALLY LOVE FUCKING FILMS ABOUT INSTRUMENTS WITHOUT PLAYING AND MORE TALKING!