I just had the exact thing happen on the exact same valve. I took the water pump and timing plate off and found damage from tap water. All the work I have done and about to do is because of your help.
Martin you are o e person who I trust most,because I can see you love jeep wj not like most people and you give lots of value information. Please keep going
4.7 here # 8 rocker arm came off after repaired freeze plug overheating engine.Having a hard time installing new arm back over the new lifter there is no way to get leverage from the bottom pushing up using a pry bar
Hey Martin, I jut discovered this today, same Cylinder #2 in my 4,7 (non-HO) Exactly same issue, was lucky it dropped into a cavern and not breaking any studs or castings. Thank you for posting great content. Hi all the way form South Africa!♥
Yeah, hopefully, you didn't actually have a dropped value seat but only a lash adjuster failure, which causes the rocker arm to come out.. Now, you can just replace the lash adjuster reinstall the rocker arm, and you'll be good to go. I'm glad you enjoyed the video and found it helpful and informative. Thank you for watching. 🙂 Make sure you soak a new lash adjuster in oil for several hours, if not a couple days, before installing.
@@martinbuilt I removed the head, and darn it, valve caught valve seat. Only slight hairline mark on Piston. I was checking the online catalogue on RockAuto.com. Have any thoughts/experience on the ITM heads they sell? I'm importing and a bit cautious on quality as sending back will take weeks. I'm wanting to replace both Heads new and want some input before purchase please :) You could make a Video too if you want on your experience with aftermarket heads.There is no Pick A Part here
@@DytliefMoller I don't have any experience with aftermarket heads. And wouldn't know who to recommend. Find someone who replaces all the valve seats with oversized ones.
@@martinbuilthey Martin, just pulled my head off and the valve seat dropped only kissing the piston barely. Can I just put a new head on it and call it a day or replace the piston? Low on cash and don’t have the time really to drop the pan to replace
I just checked my '02 H.O. and it seems like this is my issue. I can place the rocker by hand and can pull the tip of the valve up and down with no resistance. My lifter seems just fine (doesn't compress at all). I purchase the vehicle last year from a dealership with a two year warranty at 128k miles. Hopefully it won't be a battle to cover this fix.
The fact that you are able to move the tip of the valve up and down makes me think the valve spring is broke. I hope that's what it is that would be an easy fix.
@@martinbuilt Thanks for the quick reply! The spring seems fine as well. Either way I’m having it towed to my mechanic on Monday and hopefully it’s covered by the warranty. Your videos inspired me to tackle plenty of stuff on there. Brakes, brake lines, suspension, power steering, etc. this one may be outside the range of tools I have.
went to junk yard today and grabbed my driver side cam today hope to get my jeep up and running tomorrow. 7-13-24 I appreciate all your content Martin, since Ive already gotten the engine down to the heads there is no other way to check the valve seats so Im gonna go ahead and take the head off?
I just got my passenger side head because a dropped seat. Caused I am sure by a radiator leak there is a few marks on top the piston. I may end up replacing the piston I am planning to change the oil pump so I will have the pan off.
The couple marks on top of the piston isn't nothing too much to be concerned about. Unless it's a performance engine as far as daily driving I think it would work just fine
@@martinbuilt I have the heads at the machine shop. Now I am going to replace the oil pump since the timing chains are out. I am also going to pull the engine wiring harness and clean it up are rewrap some areas. I will also repair the injector connectors. Thank you for the videos
How my '02 died. You'll know when it happens. I drove it all day that day, no problems. Parked, and went back to start it to go get some ice cream and it was awful. Whole thing shaking, black smoke and all. I had the trans rebuilt, new PCM, new battery and good tires. Engine rebuild was to much for me, I really miss that vehicle.
Christian Yetto that's a real shame especially after you put all that money and work into it. I certainly hope that doesn't happen to me. Someone here had just recently mentioned that on a forum they had read that it happens in the exact same situation that happened to you where it was parked for a short time after driving it all day. I am currently working on trying to make it run cooler than it does. It doesn't even matter what temp thermostat you put in it because the ECM is going to control the fan speed trying to operate the motor at 203 to 204 degrees. The only way it's going to run cooler than that is if the ambient temperature is so low then will operate at the thermostat temperature. I think today I'm going to get under there and see if I can make some kind of modification to the hydraulic fan solenoid to bump up the RPM.
Christian Yetto that sucks man. I absolutely love my 04 overland I’ve had it 15 years now and it’s been pretty realible I did change a radiator last year 131,221 it does need valve cover gaakets. But it absolutely runs so smooth and quite. Tranny shifts perfectly. No codes after changing oil pressure sender. I’d really like to keep it as long as I can.
@@JF32304 not true! Have ALWAYS kept an eye on gauges, regular oil changes etc...exact same thing happened. Literally a 5 minute drop on my way home, and did the exact same thing!
I got a 06 Grand Jeep Cherokee Laredo I left the dipstick out and I can't see the hole do you know where the location of the hole is on a 4.7 l Jeep thank you
I think my 05 Durango might be having that problem. I have random cylinder misfire, originating from cylinder 7 & 8. Thing has to warm up before it can atleast ok, if I run it cold it hesitates really bad and almost dies out. It also billows white smoke when I gas it alittle. I already replaced coil packs and spark plugs to see if fixed the miss an it obviously didn’t.
I doubt you had a valve seat drop, you would definitely know because it will cause the valve to hang up and the Piston will literally be hitting the valve. This would make one heck of a racket. Sounds a little bit more like you may have a blown head gasket. Are you losing any antifreeze and how does the oil look is it starting to look milky at all?
martinbuilt oddly enough I still have a lot of fluid in my radiator and my oil looks fine. However where I add the engine oil in, it looks kinda milky and built up with some white looking junk, but I’m thinking that’s just condensation
martinbuilt I definitely wouldn’t doubt it being a head gasket, the crappy thing is that I’ve never worked on a engine with an overhead cam before so I don’t know if head gasket replacement would be any easier or worse
@@onionman512 the overhead camshaft is going to make changing a head gasket harder because you have to deal with the timing chain but, not that much harder.
Sig... Martinbuilt..or redone do the engine completely. To my Grand Cherokee 4.7 v8. The starter motor...but does not enter the bike. Home never?? No One for now has not haprened nothing. l'm worried. Excuse me if had mails l wrote then
I think what's happening when the valve seat drops is due to an overheating issue and the head being aluminum expands just a little bit and the seat can drop down due to the pressure no longer holding it in. Being pressed in; this tension is what's holding it in.... The ONLY way it could come out of from heat expanding expanding the socket. I believe it got hot from the hydraulic fan not engaging and causing it to get hot. That's the only thing I can think of. Martin... Your thoughts?
Jesse Fritz yes I'm sure it's got something to do with the engine running hot and the aluminum expands more than the steel hardened valve seat allowing the valve seat to drop. I recently drove down to Arizona and it is somewhat of a hilly trip and on the Hills I was reaching temperatures of 230 degrees. I do have a hydraulic fan and feel like it isn't ramping up like it should and allowing the engine to get up to 230. It does have me worried. I am looking into improving the performance of the hydraulic fan and if I'm unable to do that I will be going to an electric fan I got out of a 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.9 liter, they only use that fan that one year. Luckily I have two of them.
martinbuilt yawza!! 230! Oh no no no that's what's killing these motors! Get that stupid hydraulic fan out and get a nice electric one in! ASAP! You won't have anymore over heating problems at all!
Jesse Fritz Well that's just it, it doesn't actually overheat. Yes 230 degrees is way hotter than I would like it, that is with an ambient temperature of 110 degrees . It's kind of funny the gauge on the Jeep goes up to 215 or so now my traildash 2 says 230 degrees and I would think it is a lot more accurate cuz it's taking readings right off the ECM. I have a mod in mind for the hydraulic fan that I think will increase its performance if it doesn't work the electric fan is going in.
I also heard in a forum that when you engine is “ heat soaked” and you shut it off for a (very) short period and start it back up it can cause the valve seats to become dislodged from the aluminum head. However, this is due to egr pushing in much cooler air than the temperatures of the aluminum head. It’s always good measure to allow your engine time to cool slowly before restarting.
Vance here. 05 dodge ram 1500 4.7 When I took my valve cover off, the rocker arm popped off, the lifter or lash was bad so I replaced it. Put rocker arm back on without pry bar, just snapped on and snap off. Truck don't run too bad without the rocker arm..can you explain to me about the washers under the lifter situation? So I can drive normal
Hi martin, i need to ask you a quite urgent question. I have a 2013 4.7L in my Lonestar 1500. A few days back, i took it out for a drive, noticed that the ticking that’s been there for a few years sounded a little different but it went away once the engine got warm. Drove it around 60ish miles, beat on it a bit, by the time i got back home it was idling just fine with no issues or ticks. That’s what this engine has done for several years. Day later, i go to crank it up, and it’s ticking so loud it sounds like a rod knock. This time it doesn’t get better with temp, and stays bad. I can tell it’s not rod knock though as the engine runs as smooth as butter just with the very loud tick. I thought it was coming from the drivers side head so i cracked off that valve cover, removed all the lifters/rockers, everything was fine. Lifters were in great shape with no play or anything. There is/was a distinct tick when it cranks over in flood mode now, before it was normal while cranking in flood. Removed the timing chain cover to see if I could find anything. Drivers side tensioner was a little loose, nothing too major, same with the passenger side. Cranked it over for around 5 seconds and both firmed right up where they were supposed to be and i am unable to move either tensioner by hand. I haven’t been able to get the passenger side valve cover off yet as it’s a pita to do, but i plan on getting it off within the next few days. I should also mention, when i had the valve cover off of the passenger side with the lifters/rockers removed, i cranked over the engine, the the tick was still there loud and proud. I’d like to know your thoughts. The engine runs smooth as possible, i can provide a video if you want.
Well, if you had everything removed on the side that you heard the tiching noise. I would still think it would be the hydraulic tensioner for the timing chain. One other thing I had a Chevrolet engine that broke piston skirts off. And then it would make a bit of a knocking noise.
@@martinbuiltHi again, i know it’s been a while, just want to get your opinion on something again. Pretty much tore the engine down as much as i could and replaced most of everything that i could find which still didn’t solve the ticking issue. As a last ditch effort i took the rockers out for cylinder 7 along with the lifters and ran it and the tick went away completely. Then i put the intake rocker in, and the tick was still gone. Put the exhaust rocker in and the tick immediately started again after running the truck. Cylinder 7 also had the lowest compression (135) over the other cylinders (145-150 psi). I dropped the pan already and verified rods, bearings, wrist pins etc are okay. If i drive it with the tick, it will also completely go away if i let off the gas and coast once it enters DFCO mode. Should mention, the exhaust manifolds were replaced and new gaskets installed. I am at a loss.
I'm having this same issue on a 4.7 Durango I'm working on right now. It was a misfire on cyl 8. I took valve cover off and fulcrum was laying on the head. Put it back in, and just like this video, it was way too easy to go back on. I really didnt want to replace the head. I'm gonna try to tap on it tommorow and see what happens
@@martinbuiltThis truck was free (it's in pretty bad shape), and I'm really just trying to do the bare minimum to get it running. It did run okay before this. Hell even with no fulcrum on cyl8 it still ran okay on 7 cylinders. No smoke or shaking or any of that.
He could have a broken valve spring. I had that happen on my 04 with the HO. Replaced the spring (real suckie job) and everything came back to life. It did nothing to the valve (used a bores scope camera down the spark plug hole) $25 dollar part from the dealer.
How can you fix this problem can I just rebuild the motor or can I just get new heads or should I just rebuild the heads or should I just change the motor I really need to know
You can do any one of those things that you just mentioned. I personally would just replace the cylinder head. Unless the engine was due for an overhaul either have that done or just buy a rebuilt engine.
If I am understand you correctly cylinder number 5 is running rich. I would think it would be a bad injector. You also could do a compression check if it is the valve seat you should pretty much see no compression whatsoever or little
@@martinbuilt ya the person I got it from said he replaced both of them says it's the pcm that it has a dead spot in it, but I don't think that is the case because it starts and runs, but I have not checked the compression on that cylinder, by the way sorry for the typos
hi i am rebuilding my jeep 4.7 engine I live in Italy, here it is hard to find the pieces, but fortunately thanks to ebay I have them sent from the USA, is there a way to prevent the drop valve?
Ciao ho visto che vivi in Italia. Anche io ne ho uno versione H.O L'unica cosa che puoi fare è non far surriscaldare il motore. Le sedi valvole sono installate attraverso una pressa e sono di acciaio, mentre le teste sono in alluminio. Cedono per via della dilatazione termica
@@peperoncinoman3887 ho fatto fare il lavoro da un'officina specializzata gli ho fatto montare le sedi rinforzate per gpl piu guide valvola nuove, spero che questo Intervento sia definitivo
That was not a fulcrum it was a rocker arm the fulcrum is found on a rocker stud that the rocker pivits on, how much better are HO Cams and how do you know an HO Motor?
hey martin i have a 2000 dodge dakota 4.7 litre it has 160,000 miles and im gonna change the lifters should i run jillcat proline engine conditioner to remove sludge be for the new parts go in ?any suggestions would be appreciated thank you
uniformly with that product. I like to use Marvel's Mystery oil or Rislone Oil Treatment with all my oil changings to keep the engine clean. But yeah some kind of gentle cleaner treatment may be in order.
I know this is old, but I bought a 2000 Dakota 4.7L and had it for about two and a half years now. Took real good care of it and all of that but it managed to drop a seat. My question is this. I went to the scrap yard and pulled the head off of a 2002 and I used my cams and springs and all that. Did Dodge ever correct that problem in the later years of the 4.7? Because I'm wondering if this is a problem that I should be looking out for with a slightly newer head.
All the 4.7, 3.7 and Hemi can drop seats. My theory on that is air was trapped in the cooling system that air superheated the cylinder head that caused the valve seat to drop. This can take a long time to happen. Did you have the cooling system served, like the radiator, hoses, T-stat, water pump anything where the coolant was drained and refilled and maybe the air was not bleed from the cooling system properly, this could have caused the seat to drop?
Haven't serviced it since I have had it. The reservoir was a little low when I first got it, but other than that, cooling system hasn't overheated or given me any problems. But since I have the engine apart, I'm hoping I can put a head from an 02 on it. But I'll keep my cam on it. I was just wondering if it's still a potential problem in a slightly newer head.
Oh ok. I have found some rebuilt heads where the company claims to have fixed the seat failure issue. Wondering whether or not to take their weird on it.
There maybe shops out there that can repair a dropped valve seat. Yeah if the seat drops it get pitched between the back side of the valve and the cylinder head and hangs the valve open.
Hi Martin quick question, I recently picked up a 06 Grand Cherokee 4.7. Currently has one misfire in Cyl 7, I have replace all plugs/gapped correctly, replaced all coil packs. Ensured injectors are all working. Also have tested to ensure the proper voltage is going to the coil packs/injectors. I do have a slight ticking/knocking sound shortly after starting the car and once slightly revving or driving you can hear this ticking/knocking speed up. I am leaning towards taking the driver side valve cover to see if it is a rocker/lifter issue. Do you think if one of those were to fail it would causing this noise/misfire before I attempt to take the cover of to inspect? Also replaced the EGR valve. My final step after I remove this valve cover is to test compression in Cyl 7. Thanks!
I would do a compression test first. If it comes in low I would then do a leak-down test to determine where you are losing compression. After doing those tests then remove the valve cover to see if there is anything out of place.
From what I've seen it does seem to be the number 2 cylinder and it can be either the intake or the exhaust. That would be the front passenger side cylinder.
@@martinbuilt Mine dropped the intake on cylinder 1. Running well after a new head but wondering the odds of the other side doing the same? Ever seen a second drop?
I personally feel that the valve drop issue is caused from improper purging of the cooling system after service. Like changing water pump thermostat hoses radiator. If you properly bleed the air off the system I don't think valve drop will ever happen..
Just replaced my 2005 dodge engine (4.7l). It had 285430 miles on it and still going strong. Had the truck for 6 years and no engine problems at all. I just put a rebuilt HO in the truck.
Help!! I have a 99 myself that is failing because of burning oil issue. Anyone have any suggestions as I am just doing the best I know how to hold it together long enough to decide what to do?? I was thinking of just biting the bullet, yanking out the factory 4.7 and putting a Monster built 4.7 which has all upgraded internals inside. Monster can also custom build engines just like they do with their Transmissions. Any help or suggestions welcome. I got a Monster Transmission in December to replace the terrible Factory designed one. Night and day difference in power delivery and MPG.
If the valve seat has dropped, the cylinder head would have to be removed and repaired or replaced. Replacing a valve seat is something that a machine shop will have to do.
@@martinbuilt I truly appreciate the honesty. I thought I would try it but , I'm just a weekend tinker. It's basically a junk now. Learned a hard Mopar lesson. Stay safe.
I was chasing a loud vacuum leak and a #2 miss fire, did all the basic inspections and test it wasn't until I removed the intake manifold looking for the vacuum leak that I noticed the #2 intake valve had a ring around it, other than a rough idle the truck runs great
Hi Martin, thanks for the fantastic videos! I just bought a very clean 2004 WJ with 4.7 non-O.H. with 146,000 miles and it runs good. Would you recommend that I replace the lifters so I don't have problems? Thx
Thank you. No I don't think I would unless it had some lash adjusters ticking and and yours doesn't sound that way. 🤔 Just keep up the oil changes and you most likely will never have a problem.
I fixed that problem long time ago, I know how to fix that so it wont do it again.,just open cathalic converter and your valves will never drop again, it took me about 7 years to learn that, and I have bunch of happy customers.
@@abdoali3213 all Chrysler Jeep Dodge have same problem,every time I work on them I open the cathalic converter and never have problem again, here in Indiana is no emission test, so dont care about deleting check engine light.
Hi Martin, love these videos! I'm having a used 4.7 installed in an otherwise mint '04 GC with the HO. The "new" motor has 80K on it. I intend to do the rocker/lifter swap before installing (much better access!) but this valve seat drop has me concerned. Is there a mileage window where this seems to occur more often?
I'm curious what makes it drop the seat as well. One thing I know the previous owner was homeless for 6 months and idled the car for months I was told that is the most likely cause of a dropped valve seat.
@@Chasred-ml4hm holy hell...the exact situation that led to my 4.7 in 2002 Durango, doing (what I am assuming is) this exact same thing. My #6 cylinder got jacked up a few months back...and it spent MONTHS idling.
Either you can replace the cylinder head or a good cylinder head shop can install over sized valve seats. Providing that it has been caught in time before it breaks the valve seat and scatters parts of the valve seat into other cylinders.
I have question I was trying to removing the value cover today and I noticed the hole where I need a lifter was broken? Can someone tell me how bad is it
Found a 2008 Dodge Dakota with a 4.7 V8, Will the engine swap into a 2004 Dakota. I was going to use the 2004 harness and PCU and swap the throttle body to the 75mm LS1. Will it work? I understand the the 2008 model motor fixed the valve seat other common problems of the 4.7. Is this swap worth doing?
Yes the swap can be done, unfortunately the 75mm TB will not because the 04 Dakota uses a 2 wire IAC valve that is much larger. The valve seat drop can still happen with the 2008 and newer engines, it also happens to the Hemi 5.7 Valve seats drop from owners that improperly purge the air from the cooling system. Is the swap worth it...I would do it.
Have a 2008 Dakota motor I want to install in a 2002 Dakota, can't use the 3 plug ecu and harness with the 2008 motor because of the difference with the reference wheels. I have a control unit and engine harness from a 2005 and a 2003 model with the 4 connector. Can I adapt the original from the 2002 Dakota to work or should I use the engine compartment harness from the 2003. Neither of the ECU's I have had the immobilizer system so I don't have to worry about that.
@@davidstackhouse136 I don't know if you can convert a JTEC to an NGC, it would be easier to replace the trigger wheel on the crankshaft to a 16 tooth and replace the right cam gear.
Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.7 2000 - After replacing radiator, passing checks then doing deeper diagnose- Turns out (constant P0307) after extreme overheat situation, cylinder #7 compression is 30PSi and doesn't climb after reset gauge. Compared to others (80's+ PSI). Don't see off the bat any effect on radiator fluid (cap off) while running, no bubbles or overflow (doing it solo). However, spark plug has tar like buildup within 20miles. At this point; assume either Cylinder O-ring is bad or head cracked when overheated. Can I pull the head without major hassle? Should I. Gasket seal is a scary thing. Trade in time? What are your thoughts? Thanks.
30 PSI on number 7 indicates a serious problem. 80 psi on the other cylinders is also not good you should have at least 110 PSI. Replacing the cylinder head will also require you to remove the front timing cover to redo the timing. It is a pretty big job.
My names hugh...you know anything about unlocking a dodge ram motor that over heated a little...motor locked after It was drove it to pep Boys after they looked at it.. pep boys returned the vehicle locked up.. i changed the water pump and thermostat...I'm trying to think we're to start next...tried spinning it...locked... .
You mentioned that the engine had overheated and this could be due to a leaky head gasket perhaps the coolant ran into one of the cylinders and the engine has hydraulic locked up remove all the spark plugs and then see if it'll turn over.
My number 8 misfired. When I looked at it the Fulcrum was off. Couldnt tell if the valve seat was bad or not. Looked like the lifter was stuck up . . . Probably the issue.
If the valve seat dropped in most cases the valve would be hung open and if that's the case you'd be able to put the rocker back in with no tools. If it's a good lifter it will seem like a solid lifter
The problem is the lifter is not getting enough oil to the lifter for some reason. I think either they have a hot spot in the oil channels and bakes the oil in that spot or they are too small and clogging. I did this to 4 motors after trying new lifter that did the same thing stop working. Take the lifter out, crank the motor over a couple times but don't start it. Oil will shoot out and so will the clog in the oil channel. Not saying it's the answer for everyone but it worked for me four out of four times.
chris romero Royal purple oil you need to change to it run 3000 mi and repeat. You get deposits in them adjusters you will spit a rocker. That will clear deposits. If you have not changed oil in that motor like clock work .
Pro-touring F-body It wont help If you get deposits and its worn it can throw a rocker !! Its why 60k miles is Sad time My new heads are modified and cant spit one but thats why they dont do it early. Once it spits a rocker and you reset it and get lucky you get 1500 miles before if goes again. Usually .
Hey Martin, just can across your channel and was wondering if you could possibly help me on my random misfire 2005 Grand Cherokee WK. It has the same 4.7 as your WJ I believe, but mine is definitely a tricky one. The code I pull is P0300, which is random misfire. When I did pull codes for a single cylinder, it was for 2,4 but hadn’t popped up since I did the plugs, new 02 sensors, fuel pump. I have also tried swapping injectors to opposite side, moved coils around, and I can’t seem to narrow down this issue. Compression is above 165+ in all cylinders. Fuel pressure is 60 +-2. It misfires heavy, while driving and pushing the gas down. When it idles it doesn’t sound the worst. But as soon as I try to pick up in speed, she sputters and struggles like no other. Thanks!
@@martinbuilt thanks martin i will get a mechanical gauge and see what it says. could my ecm be bad if the mec gauge reads the same 48psi and never moves?
Does the 2008 heads fit on a 2004? Are they compatible like that? If so would I have to swap out both heads? I think this is what is wrong with mine 2004. Same valve same cylinder. :(
@@martinbuilt My right side #2 rocker popped out. I double-checked the rockers fulcrum today and it was fine and the lash adjuster works as it supposes to. Should I be worried and do a top-end overhaul and water pump and timing chain guides because they look a little bad at 184,000 miles? Or should I just put the rocker back and see if it breaks?
@@MarkAlves1982 does the rocker go in normally (with tools required) or does it go in with no tools needed because you may have a broken spring of dropped valve seat? You may what to turn the engine over but don't start with the lifter removed to push out anything that could be restricting that oil passage.
Have this issue right now on my 2004 jeep V8 HO, do you know if the cylinder head can be removed without taking the front timing cover off? I've heard it can be done with wedging the timing chain in place but can't find any good videos on it.
From my understanding no that isn't possible because one of the guides bolts to the cylinder head. I personally have never removed a cylinder head from a 4.7 .. there probably isn't a video on it because it can't be done.
@@martinbuilt Im going to attempt to do it with out taking cover off. Zip tie the timing chain to the sprocket with timing chain wedge inserted. Prevents lose of chain tension. zip toe along the chain below sprocket as well. , unscrew the top screw on the bottom chain guide and it will give acess to the 10 milimeter head bolt. Use lots of zip ties for chain tension. Remove cam sprocket from camshaft. Thenremove all head bolts and should pop off. I got zero compression in cylinder 6 and 1. I have to remove both heads again and inspect valves and pistonheads.. I hope the pistons are okay. If not my truck is toast. I have to replace both heads. Hopefully I dont need fool with the taking off the cover. I took of the pasenger valve cover and verified my timing was off a little. I was hoping to find a rocker or something disconnected to verify loss of compression. Now I suspect the piston bent a valve but no bare metal in oil?
@@castersen13 I am wishing you good luck with this project and hopefully, it's not as bad as it sounds. Those hydraulic tensioners have a very strong spring and I think you won't be able to retain the timing.
@@martinbuilt Your probably right I thought about the chain tension being tooo strong to move chain guide. I have to re-time the engine anyways because my timing was slightly off and I probably have two bent valves because of it. I dont think its pistons rings because I did a wet compression test and it still read zero compresssion. If piston rings were shot I would get small gain of compression on a wet test. I acrually turned the harmonic balancer and can hear air escaping from the head indicatiing a cracked head, bent valve or valved seat drop. All other cylinders read 150 on dry compression test. Its a head problem for sure. Im going to attempt removing head with cover on anyways just to see if its possible for others to do for head gasket repair. Ive seen conflicting information on forums. If it works ill post it to youtube and send it too you. Im not a mechanic I just cant afford mechanics. LOL
Could you expand a bit more on how you haven't heard of this happening in 2008 or later engines? I have a 2008 Grand Cherokee with the 4.7L. It had a leaky heater core (that I have since replaced) and was overheating due to the thermostat being put in backwards. I have been running without the thermostat in, and no overheating, but it does seem like the engine is not as powerful since before overheating. Do you think this could be the beginning of a valve drop issue?
I actually did find a 08 4.7 that did drop a valve seat so it is definitely possible with the later model 4.7 it also happens to the Hemi's as well. I doubt you dropped a valve seat because when that happens there would be a lot of engine noise from the valve hitting the piston. I would recommend you reinstall the thermostat.
@@martinbuilt Thanks for the response! After further research, it sounds like I would KNOW if I dropped the valve seat as there would likely be a catastrophic failure. The jeep is getting an oil change and coolant flush tomorrow at the shop, and I will have them reinstall the thermostat as well. I'm glad I happened to buy the 2008 model year with the redesigned heads - I feel I would've wrecked my engine had it been the older design.
Unfortunately if this is what happened to your engine there is no fix other than to replace the cylinder head. I saw one at Pick-A-Part one time had the head pulled off and it actually damage the Piston as well from the valve seat was hanging down and the Piston was coming up and hitting it. This is my biggest fear with this engine. I still love this engine though
@@PKendall317 I did some research before on rebuilt engines and I believe there was a company I think it was in Florida that does rebuilds on this particular engine and does fixes that are prone problems like the valve seats and they actually pin and drill the valve seats so they will not come out and they also drill the oil galleys that drain back into the cylinder heads larger I do not remember the name of this company.
Anyone know the height spec overall on a new lash adjuster? My valve moves fine (no knock when it's running either) but the rocker was just laying in my head on the same cylinder as this & it's super easy to put back, just like this one is...my lash adjuster doesn't appear to be collapsed either but id say there's 1/4" of play when the lobe is up. (just measured from bottom of lifter to top of "tit" is exactly 2")
I measured a couple latch adjusters and I'm coming up with 2in or 50.75mm Does sound like you have a collapsed lash adjuster I would also check make sure your valve spring is not broke and that the roller in The Rocker has not failed but unlikely.
@@martinbuilt Thanks man...i have a sneaking suspicion the seat may have dropped just not soo much that it's caused any damage thankfully. Trying to talk myself into not pulling the head but i think i may have to. I've got an '02 3.7 with this issue & a good running '06 3.7...i'd swap the whole motor but the 02 cam & crank collector wheels are different on those years, so the computer won't jive like that. But i believe the head itself is exactly the same.
@@whackbag3606 there you go, I totally didn't even think about the dropped valve seat problem. That very well could be it... but for your sake I hope not.
On the set of ho cams I installed I took it over to a friend that had a lathe and then took a super fine Scotch-Brite pad and ran it over the entire camshafts ... but you could also do that by hand which I have done on the set of 08 camshafts that I will be installing. Of course the camshafts do need to be removed to do that. If you're just replacing let's say a lifter or fulcrum don't worry about the tarnish that is on the camshafts
Would that cause blue smoke to come out the tailpipe? I have an 03 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland and it is smokes every time I step on the gas. Great videos btw!
Cristian Maldonado no that sounds more like it's coming from your cylinder walls being scored or possibly worn valve guides. Once you drop a valve seat it's all over you would definitely know there's a problem. I saw one other engine at Pick-A-Part it had the cylinder head pulled off with the valve seat dropped. The piston for that cylinder had large dents in it from the valve seat hitting the top of the piston.
martinbuilt I better send it to the shop then before major problems start. Thank you for getting back to me. I’m planning to do some mods like you have on your WJ!
martinbuilt Thanks! And sure will. Sorry another question but, If I were to upgrade my Throttle body to 75mm, would I still notice a big difference even if I didn’t install a larger intake manifold to go with it?
I'm just curious why do you like the HO 4.7 so much. I'm not a jeep guy or even a truck guy but I work on everything. I just came across your channel and both videos had 4.7 some how lol
Most of it is because I can't leave well enough alone. Whatever it is I'm always trying to make it better. I do love the way that the bottom end of this engine is built. The bottom end of the engine is Bulletproof. I'm also a big fan of the 4.0 Jeep engine. Thanks for watching appreciate it.
@@martinbuilt thanks for the reply, I like the ls engines my self. I'm more in to the float power feeling like 95 impala ss love that car. I love comfort with power
The high output 4.7 has a forged crank higher flow heads dome pistons... higher flow injectors.... dual knock sensors... and more better engine more horsepower and torque then regular 4.7 floating wrist pins... it’s a way better built engine.
These engines like proper maintenance or they will teach you a lesson. If the engines overheat there is good chance the valve seat on one of the valves will displace. If not that a lifter will go bad from infrequent oil changes.
im looking at a 00' with 230k on it. Burning oil at the moment. Either rings or the valve seal on the left head. How much of a pain would this be to service ?
Well the good thing is it's the left head which is the easier one to work on. I'm getting ready to do the same thing but only because I'm putting the HO Springs in and since I have the retainers and springs off it be a good time to do the seals. Not a small job by any means. If you have done valve seals in the past I'm sure you can handle it.
@@martinbuilt hey just curious do u have to pull the cams to do valve guide seals? Cuz it appears u can pop the rockers off and use air to hold up the valves up so any info is appreciated!
@@tommyjones751 no it is not necessary to pull the camshafts if you use and air compressor as you described and the Miller valve spring compressor or other valve spring compressing tools made for the 4.7 and 3.7 engine. With the valve spring compressor tool that I just recently made and used in one of my videos camshaft removal would be required.
I have a 2009 dodge 1500 #7 driverside furthest back is fouling both plugs and when i make a left turn cuts out misfire and smokes the whole street up. If i run e85 it does not do it as bad i guess it burns the oil out burning hotter. It doesn't have a dead mis unless it drops a load of oil in the cylinder. But then clears up at a higher rpm. Does this sound like a completely destroyed vavle seal? Please help? Im stumped
I just had the exact thing happen on the exact same valve. I took the water pump and timing plate off and found damage from tap water. All the work I have done and about to do is because of your help.
That explains my vacuum loss I was chasing (back pressure). We're gonna save this one. You're right to the point great video, new sub
Thank you for watching and subscribing. You may want to do a cylinder leak down test. I'm glad you found it helpful 👍
Thanks for the warning. Own an XJ 4.0. Seems to be Bulletproof. If i ever decide to upgrade to a used Grand Cherokee i will find one with a 4.0
Dido. 89 xj myself with 4.0. Only thing wrong with mine is oil leaks from the head gasket. Other then that motor runs good
So bulletproof it doesn't even need oil.
Martin you are o e person who I trust most,because I can see you love jeep wj not like most people and you give lots of value information. Please keep going
Thank you very much. I really appreciate the kind words. I still got plenty of content coming up for the WJ'S 😎
I suspected this on my Durango and sure enough your video shows the exact valve I thought was stuck open on mine. I guess im replacing the head.
4.7 here # 8 rocker arm came off after repaired freeze plug overheating engine.Having a hard time installing new arm back over the new lifter there is no way to get leverage from the bottom pushing up using a pry bar
Hey Martin, I jut discovered this today, same Cylinder #2 in my 4,7 (non-HO) Exactly same issue, was lucky it dropped into a cavern and not breaking any studs or castings. Thank you for posting great content. Hi all the way form South Africa!♥
Yeah, hopefully, you didn't actually have a dropped value seat but only a lash adjuster failure, which causes the rocker arm to come out.. Now, you can just replace the lash adjuster reinstall the rocker arm, and you'll be good to go.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video and found it helpful and informative. Thank you for watching. 🙂
Make sure you soak a new lash adjuster in oil for several hours, if not a couple days, before installing.
@@martinbuilt I removed the head, and darn it, valve caught valve seat. Only slight hairline mark on Piston. I was checking the online catalogue on RockAuto.com. Have any thoughts/experience on the ITM heads they sell? I'm importing and a bit cautious on quality as sending back will take weeks. I'm wanting to replace both Heads new and want some input before purchase please :) You could make a Video too if you want on your experience with aftermarket heads.There is no Pick A Part here
@@DytliefMoller
I don't have any experience with aftermarket heads. And wouldn't know who to recommend. Find someone who replaces all the valve seats with oversized ones.
@@martinbuilthey Martin, just pulled my head off and the valve seat dropped only kissing the piston barely. Can I just put a new head on it and call it a day or replace the piston? Low on cash and don’t have the time really to drop the pan to replace
This just happened two weeks ago on my 3.7L (basically the same just two less cylinders). Cost between $1800-2200 (depending on shop labor rates)
sorry to hear that
@@martinbuilt it happens :\
Dear Martin
hope you are fine.
i have the same problem can you please chare what i have to do to fix it.
most regards
you can replace the cylinder head or it could be repaired
@@martinbuilt thanks for your fast replay. Can i change only one head the one is damege, or i have to change both.
@@abdoali3213 you can just change the one
@@martinbuilt thanks alot
Never heard it called anything but a, "rocker arm"
So, what is the fix for the valve seats falling out?
I just checked my '02 H.O. and it seems like this is my issue. I can place the rocker by hand and can pull the tip of the valve up and down with no resistance. My lifter seems just fine (doesn't compress at all). I purchase the vehicle last year from a dealership with a two year warranty at 128k miles. Hopefully it won't be a battle to cover this fix.
The fact that you are able to move the tip of the valve up and down makes me think the valve spring is broke. I hope that's what it is that would be an easy fix.
@@martinbuilt Thanks for the quick reply! The spring seems fine as well. Either way I’m having it towed to my mechanic on Monday and hopefully it’s covered by the warranty. Your videos inspired me to tackle plenty of stuff on there. Brakes, brake lines, suspension, power steering, etc. this one may be outside the range of tools I have.
@@ianbestor1528 Since you have a warranty, I would let them do the work. Good luck👍
went to junk yard today and grabbed my driver side cam today hope to get my jeep up and running tomorrow. 7-13-24 I appreciate all your content Martin, since Ive already gotten the engine down to the heads there is no other way to check the valve seats so Im gonna go ahead and take the head off?
I just got my passenger side head because a dropped seat. Caused I am sure by a radiator leak there is a few marks on top the piston. I may end up replacing the piston I am planning to change the oil pump so I will have the pan off.
The couple marks on top of the piston isn't nothing too much to be concerned about. Unless it's a performance engine as far as daily driving I think it would work just fine
@@martinbuilt I have the heads at the machine shop. Now I am going to replace the oil pump since the timing chains are out. I am also going to pull the engine wiring harness and clean it up are rewrap some areas. I will also repair the injector connectors. Thank you for the videos
How my '02 died. You'll know when it happens. I drove it all day that day, no problems. Parked, and went back to start it to go get some ice cream and it was awful. Whole thing shaking, black smoke and all. I had the trans rebuilt, new PCM, new battery and good tires. Engine rebuild was to much for me, I really miss that vehicle.
Christian Yetto that's a real shame especially after you put all that money and work into it. I certainly hope that doesn't happen to me. Someone here had just recently mentioned that on a forum they had read that it happens in the exact same situation that happened to you where it was parked for a short time after driving it all day. I am currently working on trying to make it run cooler than it does. It doesn't even matter what temp thermostat you put in it because the ECM is going to control the fan speed trying to operate the motor at 203 to 204 degrees. The only way it's going to run cooler than that is if the ambient temperature is so low then will operate at the thermostat temperature. I think today I'm going to get under there and see if I can make some kind of modification to the hydraulic fan solenoid to bump up the RPM.
It probably got too hot. That's what killed it. People don't pay attention to their gauges.
Christian Yetto that sucks man. I absolutely love my 04 overland I’ve had it 15 years now and it’s been pretty realible I did change a radiator last year 131,221 it does need valve cover gaakets. But it absolutely runs so smooth and quite. Tranny shifts perfectly. No codes after changing oil pressure sender. I’d really like to keep it as long as I can.
@@JF32304 not true! Have ALWAYS kept an eye on gauges, regular oil changes etc...exact same thing happened. Literally a 5 minute drop on my way home, and did the exact same thing!
@@cranderson70 ok. I have left the old engines behind and got a 14 with a pentastar v6 and haven't looked back. Great vehicles!
Hello friend, I would like to know if you found the problem because the valve is shod, I have a Cherokee 3.7 with the same problem, thanks 🙏🏻
I just bought a used jeep commander 4.7L. They said blown head gasket, which just turned out to be 2 rockers fallen out when I took valve covers off
Hi Martin I have a 2012 ram 1500 4.7l and at long idles I'll get blue smoke like oil burning. Mt question is, would that be a valve seal or rings
did you fix it? mine is in same condition, I was told it is the valve seals
Try a hammer and brass punch. Just tap the end of the valve stem. Just a thought, may or may not work .
I got a 06 Grand Jeep Cherokee Laredo I left the dipstick out and I can't see the hole do you know where the location of the hole is on a 4.7 l Jeep thank you
Contact me on Facebook Messenger
Link in the description.
2002 ram 1500 4.7l
Just found rocker laid out like this, but the valve moves properly. So just put new lifter.. hopefully it fixed it.
Yep that's what it sounds like a lifter collapse
1 of my rockers does not fit on tightly.? I did find 1ofmyrockerstodecidealso. What does this mean. What should I do
I think my 05 Durango might be having that problem. I have random cylinder misfire, originating from cylinder 7 & 8. Thing has to warm up before it can atleast ok, if I run it cold it hesitates really bad and almost dies out. It also billows white smoke when I gas it alittle. I already replaced coil packs and spark plugs to see if fixed the miss an it obviously didn’t.
I doubt you had a valve seat drop, you would definitely know because it will cause the valve to hang up and the Piston will literally be hitting the valve. This would make one heck of a racket. Sounds a little bit more like you may have a blown head gasket. Are you losing any antifreeze and how does the oil look is it starting to look milky at all?
martinbuilt oddly enough I still have a lot of fluid in my radiator and my oil looks fine. However where I add the engine oil in, it looks kinda milky and built up with some white looking junk, but I’m thinking that’s just condensation
martinbuilt I definitely wouldn’t doubt it being a head gasket, the crappy thing is that I’ve never worked on a engine with an overhead cam before so I don’t know if head gasket replacement would be any easier or worse
@@onionman512 the overhead camshaft is going to make changing a head gasket harder because you have to deal with the timing chain but, not that much harder.
Sig... Martinbuilt..or redone do the engine completely. To my Grand Cherokee 4.7 v8. The starter motor...but does not enter the bike. Home never?? No One for now has not haprened nothing. l'm worried. Excuse me if had mails l wrote then
Alessandro Bardelli yea same man
I think what's happening when the valve seat drops is due to an overheating issue and the head being aluminum expands just a little bit and the seat can drop down due to the pressure no longer holding it in. Being pressed in; this tension is what's holding it in.... The ONLY way it could come out of from heat expanding expanding the socket. I believe it got hot from the hydraulic fan not engaging and causing it to get hot. That's the only thing I can think of.
Martin... Your thoughts?
Jesse Fritz yes I'm sure it's got something to do with the engine running hot and the aluminum expands more than the steel hardened valve seat allowing the valve seat to drop. I recently drove down to Arizona and it is somewhat of a hilly trip and on the Hills I was reaching temperatures of 230 degrees. I do have a hydraulic fan and feel like it isn't ramping up like it should and allowing the engine to get up to 230. It does have me worried. I am looking into improving the performance of the hydraulic fan and if I'm unable to do that I will be going to an electric fan I got out of a 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.9 liter, they only use that fan that one year. Luckily I have two of them.
martinbuilt yawza!! 230! Oh no no no that's what's killing these motors! Get that stupid hydraulic fan out and get a nice electric one in! ASAP! You won't have anymore over heating problems at all!
Jesse Fritz
Well that's just it, it doesn't actually overheat. Yes 230 degrees is way hotter than I would like it, that is with an ambient temperature of 110 degrees . It's kind of funny the gauge on the Jeep goes up to 215 or so now my traildash 2 says 230 degrees and I would think it is a lot more accurate cuz it's taking readings right off the ECM. I have a mod in mind for the hydraulic fan that I think will increase its performance if it doesn't work the electric fan is going in.
I also heard in a forum that when you engine is “ heat soaked” and you shut it off for a (very) short period and start it back up it can cause the valve seats to become dislodged from the aluminum head. However, this is due to egr pushing in much cooler air than the temperatures of the aluminum head. It’s always good measure to allow your engine time to cool slowly before restarting.
martinbuilt you could run power directly to the solenoid on the fan to engage when you want to. 12v with a toggle switch in the cab.
Vance here.
05 dodge ram 1500 4.7
When I took my valve cover off, the rocker arm popped off, the lifter or lash was bad so I replaced it. Put rocker arm back on without pry bar, just snapped on and snap off. Truck don't run too bad without the rocker arm..can you explain to me about the washers under the lifter situation? So I can drive normal
Martin can you add the h.o heads or do you need too tune it
Hi martin, i need to ask you a quite urgent question.
I have a 2013 4.7L in my Lonestar 1500.
A few days back, i took it out for a drive, noticed that the ticking that’s been there for a few years sounded a little different but it went away once the engine got warm.
Drove it around 60ish miles, beat on it a bit, by the time i got back home it was idling just fine with no issues or ticks. That’s what this engine has done for several years.
Day later, i go to crank it up, and it’s ticking so loud it sounds like a rod knock. This time it doesn’t get better with temp, and stays bad. I can tell it’s not rod knock though as the engine runs as smooth as butter just with the very loud tick.
I thought it was coming from the drivers side head so i cracked off that valve cover, removed all the lifters/rockers, everything was fine. Lifters were in great shape with no play or anything. There is/was a distinct tick when it cranks over in flood mode now, before it was normal while cranking in flood.
Removed the timing chain cover to see if I could find anything. Drivers side tensioner was a little loose, nothing too major, same with the passenger side. Cranked it over for around 5 seconds and both firmed right up where they were supposed to be and i am unable to move either tensioner by hand.
I haven’t been able to get the passenger side valve cover off yet as it’s a pita to do, but i plan on getting it off within the next few days. I should also mention, when i had the valve cover off of the passenger side with the lifters/rockers removed, i cranked over the engine, the the tick was still there loud and proud.
I’d like to know your thoughts. The engine runs smooth as possible, i can provide a video if you want.
Well, if you had everything removed on the side that you heard the tiching noise. I would still think it would be the hydraulic tensioner for the timing chain.
One other thing I had a Chevrolet engine that broke piston skirts off. And then it would make a bit of a knocking noise.
@@martinbuiltHi again, i know it’s been a while, just want to get your opinion on something again.
Pretty much tore the engine down as much as i could and replaced most of everything that i could find which still didn’t solve the ticking issue. As a last ditch effort i took the rockers out for cylinder 7 along with the lifters and ran it and the tick went away completely. Then i put the intake rocker in, and the tick was still gone. Put the exhaust rocker in and the tick immediately started again after running the truck.
Cylinder 7 also had the lowest compression (135) over the other cylinders (145-150 psi). I dropped the pan already and verified rods, bearings, wrist pins etc are okay. If i drive it with the tick, it will also completely go away if i let off the gas and coast once it enters DFCO mode.
Should mention, the exhaust manifolds were replaced and new gaskets installed. I am at a loss.
I'm having this same issue on a 4.7 Durango I'm working on right now. It was a misfire on cyl 8. I took valve cover off and fulcrum was laying on the head. Put it back in, and just like this video, it was way too easy to go back on. I really didnt want to replace the head. I'm gonna try to tap on it tommorow and see what happens
unfortunately your going to have to change out the head.
@@martinbuiltThis truck was free (it's in pretty bad shape), and I'm really just trying to do the bare minimum to get it running. It did run okay before this. Hell even with no fulcrum on cyl8 it still ran okay on 7 cylinders. No smoke or shaking or any of that.
You got to love the price.
He could have a broken valve spring. I had that happen on my 04 with the HO. Replaced the spring (real suckie job) and everything came back to life. It did nothing to the valve (used a bores scope camera down the spark plug hole) $25 dollar part from the dealer.
@@martinbuilt makes you wonder what's up with number 8. Is it just getting too hot or not enough lubrication?
so whats the fix for this new head?
do they make a roller lifter for the 2000 4.7 fakota?
No, they don't, I think it would be nice if someone would make a roller tip rocker for the valve stem.
How can you fix this problem can I just rebuild the motor or can I just get new heads or should I just rebuild the heads or should I just change the motor I really need to know
You can do any one of those things that you just mentioned. I personally would just replace the cylinder head. Unless the engine was due for an overhaul either have that done or just buy a rebuilt engine.
For Europe and other parts of the world, the 2.7 CRD Mercedes engine is far the best choice for grand cherokee WJ!
AFTER the inline 4.0
@@barrya.6212 How many you had or owned?
@@celmotors I own one now...over 200,000 miles on it...purring like a kitten....no piston skirt sounds / issues either...
I have a 2001 4.7 on a darango it dumpstoo much has on cylinder 5 and floods it out could the valve seat be the reason.
If I am understand you correctly cylinder number 5 is running rich. I would think it would be a bad injector. You also could do a compression check if it is the valve seat you should pretty much see no compression whatsoever or little
@@martinbuilt ya the person I got it from said he replaced both of them says it's the pcm that it has a dead spot in it, but I don't think that is the case because it starts and runs, but I have not checked the compression on that cylinder, by the way sorry for the typos
@@martinbuilt and thanks for taking time out of your day to respond that is awesome thanks again.
hi i am rebuilding my jeep 4.7 engine
I live in Italy, here it is hard to find the pieces, but fortunately thanks to ebay I have them sent from the USA, is there a way to prevent the drop valve?
Ciao ho visto che vivi in Italia. Anche io ne ho uno versione H.O
L'unica cosa che puoi fare è non far surriscaldare il motore.
Le sedi valvole sono installate attraverso una pressa e sono di acciaio, mentre le teste sono in alluminio. Cedono per via della dilatazione termica
@@peperoncinoman3887 ho fatto fare il lavoro da un'officina specializzata gli ho fatto montare le sedi rinforzate per gpl piu guide valvola nuove, spero che questo Intervento sia definitivo
That was not a fulcrum it was a rocker arm the fulcrum is found on a rocker stud that the rocker pivits on, how much better are HO Cams and how do you know an HO Motor?
hey martin i have a 2000 dodge dakota 4.7 litre it has 160,000 miles and im gonna change the lifters should i run jillcat proline engine conditioner to remove sludge be for the new parts go in ?any suggestions would be appreciated thank you
uniformly with that product. I like to use Marvel's Mystery oil or Rislone Oil Treatment with all my oil changings to keep the engine clean.
But yeah some kind of gentle cleaner treatment may be in order.
@@martinbuilt thank you for the tip aw some videos by the way
@@reason7256 Thank you
Happens on the 5.7 too
It sure does. I have a video that I did on that. Thank you for watching.
ua-cam.com/video/hM5Amy7VXlk/v-deo.html
I know this is old, but I bought a 2000 Dakota 4.7L and had it for about two and a half years now. Took real good care of it and all of that but it managed to drop a seat. My question is this. I went to the scrap yard and pulled the head off of a 2002 and I used my cams and springs and all that. Did Dodge ever correct that problem in the later years of the 4.7? Because I'm wondering if this is a problem that I should be looking out for with a slightly newer head.
All the 4.7, 3.7 and Hemi can drop seats. My theory on that is air was trapped in the cooling system that air superheated the cylinder head that caused the valve seat to drop. This can take a long time to happen. Did you have the cooling system served, like the radiator, hoses, T-stat, water pump anything where the coolant was drained and refilled and maybe the air was not bleed from the cooling system properly, this could have caused the seat to drop?
Haven't serviced it since I have had it. The reservoir was a little low when I first got it, but other than that, cooling system hasn't overheated or given me any problems. But since I have the engine apart, I'm hoping I can put a head from an 02 on it. But I'll keep my cam on it. I was just wondering if it's still a potential problem in a slightly newer head.
@@DontDodgeIt...RamIt...Dammit. yeah it's always been an issue in all the years.
Oh ok. I have found some rebuilt heads where the company claims to have fixed the seat failure issue. Wondering whether or not to take their weird on it.
I am having this issue now exact same problem to fix it all i have to do is get a new head? or how do i fix
Yes, new head and hopefully the piston is not beat up, Did you shut the engine down as soon as it happened?
Can the head be repaired? So the valve seat drops out and blocks the valve's return?
There maybe shops out there that can repair a dropped valve seat. Yeah if the seat drops it get pitched between the back side of the valve and the cylinder head and hangs the valve open.
@@martinbuilt I read the overheating can also buckle the valve stem, so I guess its time to find a good video about head removal
Hi Martin quick question,
I recently picked up a 06 Grand Cherokee 4.7. Currently has one misfire in Cyl 7, I have replace all plugs/gapped correctly, replaced all coil packs. Ensured injectors are all working. Also have tested to ensure the proper voltage is going to the coil packs/injectors. I do have a slight ticking/knocking sound shortly after starting the car and once slightly revving or driving you can hear this ticking/knocking speed up. I am leaning towards taking the driver side valve cover to see if it is a rocker/lifter issue. Do you think if one of those were to fail it would causing this noise/misfire before I attempt to take the cover of to inspect? Also replaced the EGR valve. My final step after I remove this valve cover is to test compression in Cyl 7.
Thanks!
I would do a compression test first. If it comes in low I would then do a leak-down test to determine where you are losing compression. After doing those tests then remove the valve cover to see if there is anything out of place.
Which cylinder seat drop is most common?
From what I've seen it does seem to be the number 2 cylinder and it can be either the intake or the exhaust.
That would be the front passenger side cylinder.
@@martinbuilt Mine dropped the intake on cylinder 1. Running well after a new head but wondering the odds of the other side doing the same? Ever seen a second drop?
So would you say the 4.7 is problematic as an engine ?
1st gen yes. 2nd gen no.
I own a 04 grand Cherokee overland with the 4.7 HO. Engine has been relatively good. It's got 130000 on it now. Should I be concerned... ?
I personally feel that the valve drop issue is caused from improper purging of the cooling system after service. Like changing water pump thermostat hoses radiator. If you properly bleed the air off the system I don't think valve drop will ever happen..
@@martinbuilt it happened on my 4.7 ho when it overheated with low steering/fan fluid.
Just replaced my 2005 dodge engine (4.7l).
It had 285430 miles on it and still going strong.
Had the truck for 6 years and no engine problems at all.
I just put a rebuilt HO in the truck.
Hey Martin are you in Atlanta pull a part?
That is the North Las Vegas Pic-a-Part
Help!!
I have a 99 myself that is failing because of burning oil issue.
Anyone have any suggestions as I am just doing the best I know how to hold it together long enough to decide what to do??
I was thinking of just biting the bullet, yanking out the factory 4.7 and putting a Monster built 4.7 which has all upgraded internals inside. Monster can also custom build engines just like they do with their Transmissions.
Any help or suggestions welcome.
I got a Monster Transmission in December to replace the terrible Factory designed one.
Night and day difference in power delivery and MPG.
I have a Ram 3.7 with a valve seat issue...causes a PO300 /304/306 random misfire at idle....on the road its fine
if you had a valve drop the engine would run terrible and all engine speeds. I would check your injectors, plugs and coils.
Is the motor basically trashed? Just opened mine and found the same thing on 5. Can I replace the valve myself and do you have a video?
If the valve seat has dropped, the cylinder head would have to be removed and repaired or replaced.
Replacing a valve seat is something that a machine shop will have to do.
@@martinbuilt I truly appreciate the honesty. I thought I would try it but , I'm just a weekend tinker. It's basically a junk now. Learned a hard Mopar lesson. Stay safe.
Help. 02 4.7 dodge replaced lifters and timings chains guides and adjuster runs strong but still has a constant knock?
How's the oil pressure?
@@martinbuilt oil pressure is great
@@waltconrad4798 and is the knocking in the upper part of the engine? Have you tried to use a mechanics stethoscope to locate the score of the noise
@@martinbuilt yes stethoscope leads me to top side drivers side
Any thoughts ??
I have a 2002 Dodge Ram with the 4.7L. My engine did the exact same thing on the exact same valve.
Mine done it last week 😭
I was chasing a loud vacuum leak and a #2 miss fire, did all the basic inspections and test it wasn't until I removed the intake manifold looking for the vacuum leak that I noticed the #2 intake valve had a ring around it, other than a rough idle the truck runs great
mine did it last week too, what a surprise that's leaves you stranded lol
Hi Martin, thanks for the fantastic videos! I just bought a very clean 2004 WJ with 4.7 non-O.H. with 146,000 miles and it runs good. Would you recommend that I replace the lifters so I don't have problems? Thx
Thank you. No I don't think I would unless it had some lash adjusters ticking and and yours doesn't sound that way. 🤔
Just keep up the oil changes and you most likely will never have a problem.
I fixed that problem long time ago, I know how to fix that so it wont do it again.,just open cathalic converter and your valves will never drop again, it took me about 7 years to learn that, and I have bunch of happy customers.
Dear walter
i have the same the problem, can you please chare how you fix it .
most regards
@@abdoali3213 all Chrysler Jeep Dodge have same problem,every time I work on them I open the cathalic converter and never have problem again, here in Indiana is no emission test, so dont care about deleting check engine light.
Hi Martin, love these videos! I'm having a used 4.7 installed in an otherwise mint '04 GC with the HO. The "new" motor has 80K on it. I intend to do the rocker/lifter swap before installing (much better access!) but this valve seat drop has me concerned. Is there a mileage window where this seems to occur more often?
Tbh, I don’t believe so. Mine has 170k miles and just come out of no where. Cost me between $1800-2200 to repair
I'm curious what makes it drop the seat as well. One thing I know the previous owner was homeless for 6 months and idled the car for months I was told that is the most likely cause of a dropped valve seat.
@@Chasred-ml4hm holy hell...the exact situation that led to my 4.7 in 2002 Durango, doing (what I am assuming is) this exact same thing.
My #6 cylinder got jacked up a few months back...and it spent MONTHS idling.
Just had our 2003 4.7L Durango drop a valve seat with 159,000 miles on the clock. Wish I was mechanically knowledgeable enough to fix it…
So how do you fix that problem when it happens
Either you can replace the cylinder head or a good cylinder head shop can install over sized valve seats. Providing that it has been caught in time before it breaks the valve seat and scatters parts of the valve seat into other cylinders.
I have question I was trying to removing the value cover today and I noticed the hole where I need a lifter was broken? Can someone tell me how bad is it
Thats not good.. will a lifter fit back into the hole. If so how much of the hole has broke off.
@@martinbuilt part of the hole broken off I'm still working on removing the value cover it started raining
Found a 2008 Dodge Dakota with a 4.7 V8, Will the engine swap into a 2004 Dakota. I was going to use the 2004 harness and PCU and swap the throttle body to the 75mm LS1. Will it work? I understand the the 2008 model motor fixed the valve seat other common problems of the 4.7. Is this swap worth doing?
Yes the swap can be done, unfortunately the 75mm TB will not because the 04 Dakota uses a 2 wire IAC valve that is much larger. The valve seat drop can still happen with the 2008 and newer engines, it also happens to the Hemi 5.7
Valve seats drop from owners that improperly purge the air from the cooling system.
Is the swap worth it...I would do it.
Have a 2008 Dakota motor I want to install in a 2002 Dakota, can't use the 3 plug ecu and harness with the 2008 motor because of the difference with the reference wheels. I have a control unit and engine harness from a 2005 and a 2003 model with the 4 connector. Can I adapt the original from the 2002 Dakota to work or should I use the engine compartment harness from the 2003. Neither of the ECU's I have had the immobilizer system so I don't have to worry about that.
@@davidstackhouse136 I don't know if you can convert a JTEC to an NGC, it would be easier to replace the trigger wheel on the crankshaft to a 16 tooth and replace the right cam gear.
Grand Cherokee Laredo 4.7 2000 - After replacing radiator, passing checks then doing deeper diagnose- Turns out (constant P0307) after extreme overheat situation, cylinder #7 compression is 30PSi and doesn't climb after reset gauge.
Compared to others (80's+ PSI). Don't see off the bat any effect on radiator fluid (cap off) while running, no bubbles or overflow (doing it solo).
However, spark plug has tar like buildup within 20miles. At this point; assume either Cylinder O-ring is bad or head cracked when overheated.
Can I pull the head without major hassle? Should I. Gasket seal is a scary thing.
Trade in time? What are your thoughts? Thanks.
30 PSI on number 7 indicates a serious problem. 80 psi on the other cylinders is also not good you should have at least 110 PSI. Replacing the cylinder head will also require you to remove the front timing cover to redo the timing. It is a pretty big job.
My names hugh...you know anything about unlocking a dodge ram motor that over heated a little...motor locked after It was drove it to pep Boys after they looked at it.. pep boys returned the vehicle locked up.. i changed the water pump and thermostat...I'm trying to think we're to start next...tried spinning it...locked... .
You mentioned that the engine had overheated and this could be due to a leaky head gasket perhaps the coolant ran into one of the cylinders and the engine has hydraulic locked up
remove all the spark plugs and then see if it'll turn over.
@@martinbuilt oils clean it didn't mix with coolint
My number 8 misfired. When I looked at it the Fulcrum was off. Couldnt tell if the valve seat was bad or not. Looked like the lifter was stuck up . . . Probably the issue.
If the valve seat dropped in most cases the valve would be hung open and if that's the case you'd be able to put the rocker back in with no tools. If it's a good lifter it will seem like a solid lifter
The problem is the lifter is not getting enough oil to the lifter for some reason. I think either they have a hot spot in the oil channels and bakes the oil in that spot or they are too small and clogging. I did this to 4 motors after trying new lifter that did the same thing stop working. Take the lifter out, crank the motor over a couple times but don't start it. Oil will shoot out and so will the clog in the oil channel. Not saying it's the answer for everyone but it worked for me four out of four times.
This is one of the reasons I like Marvel Mystery Oil or Rislone, it removes all the sludge and contaminates from the engine.
@@martinbuilt I used Reslone for 40 years give or take and swear by it. Never tried the Marvel oil.
I've never had any problems with my 4.7. I guess I just maintain my engine better than most people.
chris romero Royal purple oil you need to change to it run 3000 mi and repeat. You get deposits in them adjusters you will spit a rocker. That will clear deposits. If you have not changed oil in that motor like clock work .
@@AboxofMonsters you need to understand ....THE VALVE SEAT FELL OUT !!!!!! Royal pink king urine oil can't prevent that !
Pro-touring F-body It wont help If you get deposits and its worn it can throw a rocker !! Its why 60k miles is Sad time My new heads are modified and cant spit one but thats why they dont do it early. Once it spits a rocker and you reset it and get lucky you get 1500 miles before if goes again. Usually .
Marvel Mystery Oil For gas and Crankcase, that'll make magic
Not yet 😂😂
Hey Martin, just can across your channel and was wondering if you could possibly help me on my random misfire 2005 Grand Cherokee WK. It has the same 4.7 as your WJ I believe, but mine is definitely a tricky one. The code I pull is P0300, which is random misfire. When I did pull codes for a single cylinder, it was for 2,4 but hadn’t popped up since I did the plugs, new 02 sensors, fuel pump. I have also tried swapping injectors to opposite side, moved coils around, and I can’t seem to narrow down this issue. Compression is above 165+ in all cylinders. Fuel pressure is 60 +-2. It misfires heavy, while driving and pushing the gas down. When it idles it doesn’t sound the worst. But as soon as I try to pick up in speed, she sputters and struggles like no other. Thanks!
I believe the fuel pressure looks hi, should be closer to 49-50 psi. Not saying that is the problem. I'm wondering about the fuel injectors.
martin what does your 4.7l oil pressure read? mine stays at 48psi on my tuner and instrument cluster it stays just after halfway mark.
my 4.7l is one of the 2008 ram1500
@@dupont4sure
the one in my Jeep Grand reads halfway and the one in my Dakota reads 3/4 way when cruising 2000 RPM and 1/4 at idle.
@@martinbuilt thanks martin i will get a mechanical gauge and see what it says. could my ecm be bad if the mec gauge reads the same 48psi and never moves?
No way to fix this issue? I think this isnl whats wrong with my truck.
The cylinder head can be repaired if it did drop a valve seat.
Does the 2008 heads fit on a 2004? Are they compatible like that? If so would I have to swap out both heads? I think this is what is wrong with mine 2004. Same valve same cylinder. :(
you would need to change both heads, exhaust manifolds, injectors and coils and you will drop in compression ratio from 9 to 1 to 7.84
@@martinbuilt My right side #2 rocker popped out. I double-checked the rockers fulcrum today and it was fine and the lash adjuster works as it supposes to. Should I be worried and do a top-end overhaul and water pump and timing chain guides because they look a little bad at 184,000 miles? Or should I just put the rocker back and see if it breaks?
@@MarkAlves1982
does the rocker go in normally (with tools required) or does it go in with no tools needed because you may have a broken spring of dropped valve seat? You may what to turn the engine over but don't start with the lifter removed to push out anything that could be restricting that oil passage.
@@martinbuilt Normally with tools.
@@MarkAlves1982
yeah, I would make sure that the oil passage is not restricted.
Have this issue right now on my 2004 jeep V8 HO, do you know if the cylinder head can be removed without taking the front timing cover off? I've heard it can be done with wedging the timing chain in place but can't find any good videos on it.
From my understanding no that isn't possible because one of the guides bolts to the cylinder head. I personally have never removed a cylinder head from a 4.7 .. there probably isn't a video on it because it can't be done.
It would be difficult to do... Keeping timing is the critical part. Give it a shot and see what happens.
@@martinbuilt Im going to attempt to do it with out taking cover off. Zip tie the timing chain to the sprocket with timing chain wedge inserted. Prevents lose of chain tension. zip toe along the chain below sprocket as well. , unscrew the top screw on the bottom chain guide and it will give acess to the 10 milimeter head bolt. Use lots of zip ties for chain tension. Remove cam sprocket from camshaft. Thenremove all head bolts and should pop off. I got zero compression in cylinder 6 and 1. I have to remove both heads again and inspect valves and pistonheads.. I hope the pistons are okay. If not my truck is toast. I have to replace both heads. Hopefully I dont need fool with the taking off the cover. I took of the pasenger valve cover and verified my timing was off a little. I was hoping to find a rocker or something disconnected to verify loss of compression. Now I suspect the piston bent a valve but no bare metal in oil?
@@castersen13 I am wishing you good luck with this project and hopefully, it's not as bad as it sounds. Those hydraulic tensioners have a very strong spring and I think you won't be able to retain the timing.
@@martinbuilt Your probably right I thought about the chain tension being tooo strong to move chain guide. I have to re-time the engine anyways because my timing was slightly off and I probably have two bent valves because of it. I dont think its pistons rings because I did a wet compression test and it still read zero compresssion. If piston rings were shot I would get small gain of compression on a wet test. I acrually turned the harmonic balancer and can hear air escaping from the head indicatiing a cracked head, bent valve or valved seat drop. All other cylinders read 150 on dry compression test. Its a head problem for sure. Im going to attempt removing head with cover on anyways just to see if its possible for others to do for head gasket repair. Ive seen conflicting information on forums. If it works ill post it to youtube and send it too you. Im not a mechanic I just cant afford mechanics. LOL
Is there a recall ?
No, there is no recall for this.
I would just recommend making sure the engine runs as cool as possible and purge all the air from the cooling system.
Could you expand a bit more on how you haven't heard of this happening in 2008 or later engines? I have a 2008 Grand Cherokee with the 4.7L. It had a leaky heater core (that I have since replaced) and was overheating due to the thermostat being put in backwards. I have been running without the thermostat in, and no overheating, but it does seem like the engine is not as powerful since before overheating. Do you think this could be the beginning of a valve drop issue?
I actually did find a 08 4.7 that did drop a valve seat so it is definitely possible with the later model 4.7 it also happens to the Hemi's as well. I doubt you dropped a valve seat because when that happens there would be a lot of engine noise from the valve hitting the piston. I would recommend you reinstall the thermostat.
@@martinbuilt Thanks for the response! After further research, it sounds like I would KNOW if I dropped the valve seat as there would likely be a catastrophic failure. The jeep is getting an oil change and coolant flush tomorrow at the shop, and I will have them reinstall the thermostat as well. I'm glad I happened to buy the 2008 model year with the redesigned heads - I feel I would've wrecked my engine had it been the older design.
@@RuskieBlues not to mention another 70 plus horsepower
@@martinbuilt also a sweet bonus 😎
Having this issue with my 06 WK. Short of a head or engine replacement, anyone have a fix or solution to this?
Unfortunately if this is what happened to your engine there is no fix other than to replace the cylinder head. I saw one at Pick-A-Part one time had the head pulled off and it actually damage the Piston as well from the valve seat was hanging down and the Piston was coming up and hitting it. This is my biggest fear with this engine. I still love this engine though
@@martinbuilt was afraid you'd say that lol. Looking into replacing the head. As far as I can tell everything else is good.
@@PKendall317 I did some research before on rebuilt engines and I believe there was a company I think it was in Florida that does rebuilds on this particular engine and does fixes that are prone problems like the valve seats and they actually pin and drill the valve seats so they will not come out and they also drill the oil galleys that drain back into the cylinder heads larger I do not remember the name of this company.
@@martinbuilt that's exactly what I'm afraid damage to the piston. Well we'll see
Anyone know the height spec overall on a new lash adjuster?
My valve moves fine (no knock when it's running either) but the rocker was just laying in my head on the same cylinder as this & it's super easy to put back, just like this one is...my lash adjuster doesn't appear to be collapsed either but id say there's 1/4" of play when the lobe is up. (just measured from bottom of lifter to top of "tit" is exactly 2")
I measured a couple latch adjusters and I'm coming up with 2in or 50.75mm
Does sound like you have a collapsed lash adjuster I would also check make sure your valve spring is not broke and that the roller in The Rocker has not failed but unlikely.
@@martinbuilt Thanks man...i have a sneaking suspicion the seat may have dropped just not soo much that it's caused any damage thankfully. Trying to talk myself into not pulling the head but i think i may have to. I've got an '02 3.7 with this issue & a good running '06 3.7...i'd swap the whole motor but the 02 cam & crank collector wheels are different on those years, so the computer won't jive like that. But i believe the head itself is exactly the same.
@@whackbag3606 there you go, I totally didn't even think about the dropped valve seat problem. That very well could be it... but for your sake I hope not.
How do u clean them cams up
On the set of ho cams I installed I took it over to a friend that had a lathe and then took a super fine Scotch-Brite pad and ran it over the entire camshafts ... but you could also do that by hand which I have done on the set of 08 camshafts that I will be installing. Of course the camshafts do need to be removed to do that. If you're just replacing let's say a lifter or fulcrum don't worry about the tarnish that is on the camshafts
@@martinbuilt thanks so much
Would that cause blue smoke to come out the tailpipe? I have an 03 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland and it is smokes every time I step on the gas. Great videos btw!
Cristian Maldonado no that sounds more like it's coming from your cylinder walls being scored or possibly worn valve guides. Once you drop a valve seat it's all over you would definitely know there's a problem. I saw one other engine at Pick-A-Part it had the cylinder head pulled off with the valve seat dropped. The piston for that cylinder had large dents in it from the valve seat hitting the top of the piston.
martinbuilt I better send it to the shop then before major problems start. Thank you for getting back to me.
I’m planning to do some mods like you have on your WJ!
Hope it works out for you...Let me know what they say.
martinbuilt Thanks! And sure will. Sorry another question but, If I were to upgrade my Throttle body to 75mm, would I still notice a big difference even if I didn’t install a larger intake manifold to go with it?
I would not do that.. You'll have no gain from that. I would just run a 70mm with the older intake.
Gotta dead cylinder 2 valve seat dropped and cracked
I'm just curious why do you like the HO 4.7 so much. I'm not a jeep guy or even a truck guy but I work on everything. I just came across your channel and both videos had 4.7 some how lol
Most of it is because I can't leave well enough alone. Whatever it is I'm always trying to make it better. I do love the way that the bottom end of this engine is built. The bottom end of the engine is Bulletproof. I'm also a big fan of the 4.0 Jeep engine. Thanks for watching appreciate it.
@@martinbuilt thanks for the reply, I like the ls engines my self. I'm more in to the float power feeling like 95 impala ss love that car. I love comfort with power
@@lovetolearn5253 oh I love those Impala SS. I had a 93 Chevrolet Caprice retired police car. They're somewhat similar.
The high output 4.7 has a forged crank higher flow heads dome pistons... higher flow injectors.... dual knock sensors... and more better engine more horsepower and torque then regular 4.7 floating wrist pins... it’s a way better built engine.
These engines like proper maintenance or they will teach you a lesson. If the engines overheat there is good chance the valve seat on one of the valves will displace. If not that a lifter will go bad from infrequent oil changes.
Sounds like the source of the notorious (motorious) "Hemi tap." 😢
im looking at a 00' with 230k on it. Burning oil at the moment. Either rings or the valve seal on the left head. How much of a pain would this be to service ?
Well the good thing is it's the left head which is the easier one to work on. I'm getting ready to do the same thing but only because I'm putting the HO Springs in and since I have the retainers and springs off it be a good time to do the seals. Not a small job by any means. If you have done valve seals in the past I'm sure you can handle it.
@@martinbuilt thanks man!
@@martinbuilt hey just curious do u have to pull the cams to do valve guide seals? Cuz it appears u can pop the rockers off and use air to hold up the valves up so any info is appreciated!
@@tommyjones751 no it is not necessary to pull the camshafts if you use and air compressor as you described and the Miller valve spring compressor or other valve spring compressing tools made for the 4.7 and 3.7 engine. With the valve spring compressor tool that I just recently made and used in one of my videos camshaft removal would be required.
I have a 2009 dodge 1500 #7 driverside furthest back is fouling both plugs and when i make a left turn cuts out misfire and smokes the whole street up. If i run e85 it does not do it as bad i guess it burns the oil out burning hotter. It doesn't have a dead mis unless it drops a load of oil in the cylinder. But then clears up at a higher rpm. Does this sound like a completely destroyed vavle seal? Please help? Im stumped
Your like 👍 and a new subscriber thank you sir
Thank you for watching and subscribe I appreciate that.😎👍
Thank you
Great video thank you so much Mark mangano dependable auto wartburg tennessee
Glad you enjoyed it 👍
Dodge/Chrysler .7 anything can't be worth repairing when ALL their valve seats eventually drop and destroy the engine 😮
They don’t.
So you basically just told me my motor is fuxed? I’m 99% sure this is what happens
you could replace the cylinder head as long as the piston survived and the valve seat didn't break apart and get into the other cylinders.
💯🔥🔥
U CANNOT RUN THESE THINGS HOT. PERIOD!!
People pull their first valve cover and start making UA-cam videos