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Great advice and info! The benefits of dirt biking from youth to adulthood, is often forgotten by most of us. We just progress onto the next chapter of bike, with somewhat ease. But I see so many adults getting into mid and full size adv bikes, with little or no experience. This video will help more people than you realize. If it's not fun, it's done! So hopefully this will aid many on making a "fun" purchase :-) Well done! Cheers to a wonderful 2022 riding season ehh 🇨🇦
This is the most honest and accurate review of the difference between the beefcake and midsize adv bikes. Anyone other than a pro who thinks they're going to ride a beefcake on anything other than graded dirt/gravel roads is in for an expensive surprise and disappointment. Thanks for the content. Cheers from OZ
I think there should be 4 size classification small up to 450cc, medium 450cc to 750cc, large 750cc to 1000cc and over sized 1000cc + . But not be restricted to just classed by engine size.
A classification seems always hard. Like for example the 2016 Africa Twin. Is it "over size" or "just" mid/ large? Or the Tiger: although the Tiger 900 seems heavy and definitely large, the Tiger 800, especially the first models seem much more nimble and medium size. The weight should be considered as well. A 650 ccm V-Strom is heavier than a T7, which matters offoad but means more comfort onroad. So it's always a combination between motor size and weight.
450cc is not small, that is heavy big bike off-road. 450cc in cross bikes is the biggest you get, if I not remember wrong. More like 50-300cc is small. You don't need to go 60mph + off-road.
Dude, you seriously have the most comprehensive videos, time after time, than anyone...thanks for putting all the work into keeping the rest of us fully informed.
I really appreciate your channel. It's one of only two motorcycle channels I follow, because of the great content. I'd only add one thing - adventure is in the use. Ed March turned a Honda C90 into an ADV bike because of how he used it. Not that a Goldwing or a Street Glide is no different than a T7, but that we get so caught up in having the "right" bike or gear, we can miss the adventure. Ride what you own, upgrade as you need, but most importantly - have a good time (and be safe if you can). Again, great video, great channel, great advice.
Big bikes are better for highway adventures. Smaller bikes are better for back roads, dirt roads and off road adventures. My G310GS is the best I've found for my adventures, riding back roads, dirt roads and off roads, and ultralight camping. I wish it had a 5 gallon fuel tank and maybe a suspension upgrade. The CRF300L Rally looks good to me as well. A friend just bought a big GS. It's gorgeous and no doubt a very comfortable bike for long highway miles, but I have a 4Runner for that.
@@Liberty4Ever I agree. My last bike was an RE Himalayan, and I loved it, but it just couldn't do what I needed. I'm a big guy and live in the Midwest, so I need a moderately capable bike on the highway to get to more interesting riding grounds.
You forgott to mention something very important: Emotions! Many of us buy a bike just because we like it so much (I bought an Adventure R, knowing it is lightyears better then I will ever be offroad :). Thanks for your clips mate, I like them alot. Greetings from the heart of Switzerland.
Excellent perspective. I think biggest takeaways are: 1) Don't ride bikes that intimidate you (it could save your life) 2) Be humble enough to take training/classes 3) Be realistic with where your riding skills are at and start small/light and build up
Major consideration is can you pick it up by yourself if you lay it down in the mud? Anything over 400lbs starts to get ridiculous for most folks. So that 1250 BMW is at the fat end of no thank you.
The BMW is actually quite easy to pick up thanks to the boxer engine. You get it half way just tipping on the cylinder, and then ”easy” to back up. A slim bike, like the KTMs are more difficult because you don’t have the tipping point. I used to ride a KTM 1190 Adv R and it was a bitch for me to pick up. I have the nerdy desk rider build …
I think you hit the nail on the head. Excellent brake down between the different bikes. I have a Honda NC700X that I have set up and used as a adventure bike and I just changed to a Honda CRF300L Rally because the 700 is just to heavy for me to be picking up. I guess I am a little more of a off road rider then I thought I would be at age 70.
And I'm sure you would appreciate it even more if it was lighter. I think an adventure bike should not weight more than 130 kg, and the Honda is 153 kg. I don't understand why dirty bikes are 110 kg, and dual sport are so heavy instead. I would rather pay more for a dual sport if they could keep the weight down.
You should check the ItchyBoots Videos. She Rides a CRF300 Honda and has traveled the World on it. Right now She’s going from the Tip of South America all the way to Alaska. She is the very Top of Adventure Riding. You will be Amazed at what she puts that Bike through.
@@joeybobbie1 your a little late telling me that because I have followed her from day one. I don't think I have missed a single video. But thanks for mentioning her the more of us watching the better it is for Noraly.
I've watched a couple video's from this channel and must say that out of all the content I've watched, listened to, and researched in pursuit of the right ADV bike for two-up riding, this individual seems to put together all the information very well and easy to comprehend. He articulates the info very well and his experience comes through as very knowledgeable.
I’ve gone for a 2014 BMW G650gs. It seemed the right size for me as I’m not very tall. I did 3,300km over eight days and it handed the trip like a breeze 😃
Right to the point! I’ve recently moved from a GS1200 Adv to 890R and after some mods it seems perfect to me (at 6ft6 and 240 pounds). 50 kilos less of a bike and superb off-road suspension gets the work done :-)
In most EU countries we have 130-140 km/h on the highway (except on some German freeways where there is no limit at all). Between countries the highway are connected and this way you can travel for hours or even days. I personally use a highway speed between 130-150km/h in my GSA 1200. At this speed with a full load the GSA runs smoothly. Off the highway we usually drive at 100 km/h- 110 km/h. To move with pleasure in central Europe it is good to have good acceleration. In town we mostly use 50+;) km/h.
Hi. While this comparison is reasonable, in my crappy opinion (insert Dirty Harry quote about opinions here) before you consider any bike, you need to ask and answer yourself some very fundamental questions: 1. Where you ride? Climate, distances, fuel availability and road conditions 2. When you ride? Is it just the weekend or for everyday rides including commuting? 3. Why you ride? Assuming ADV riding, do you want to go to known location where conditions are more or less known, or you want to go follow a track you found and don’t know where it goes and what the conditions are? Stay in rooms or camping? 4. How you ride? Group or solo? Fast or slow? 5. How much? Spend for bike, gear, protection, repairs (expect to spend at least 20% of the value of the bike in the first year or two for things, half of them you will find useless after). Also tires burn at least twice as fast in ADV riding. Also, with some exceptions, if and when you sell your bike, you will get 20% less money because for every bike that was taken off-road (scratches, damages etc.) there are 9 that were road only for sale. I will part with the words that a very wise and experienced round-the-world rider told me when I asked him to compare my then bike, a 2015 R1200GS Adv to the new AT, and which is more valid for my current 790 Adv R: “On-road you will miss the GS, off-road you will forget the GS”
Your list is essentially how I approach it as well. To sum it up: Be brutally honest with yourself about how you are going to actually use the bike, not some fantasy of how you are going to use it.
Your comments on riding highways in the western USA are right on. Speeds are very high. In my case, I’ve found it helpful to be able to control my interactions with large trucks/RVs that create huge wind buffeting. That heavily tilts the scale towards bikes that have the power to pass or not get passed by these vehicles (unless you want them to pass you). The amount of weight you intend to carry obviously affects the perceived power you need. As you rightly included fuel distance also plays a huge role. For example, when riding locally my fuel range on a Suzuki VStrom 1000 is routinely 220-240 miles. When the bike is loaded and I’m doing interstate highway travel that range drops to 150-160 miles.
Your conclusion has been my conclusion for a long time, but no one has ever come out on UA-cam and said it, until now, and you said it! "Overall, the mid size adventure bike ... is the most versatile type of motorcycle - period!" Other videos seem to ignore that big adventure bikes are primarily good at highway, and what makes them good at highway is mass, consequentially powerful but also big motors, and carrying capacity. It's funny to watch videos that promote 1000+ cc bikes as equals to mid size bikes in all categories, except for maybe price. Defining size categories is also difficult but fun. I think one has to consider the era bikes were built with regards to CC’s - since the cc’s of each category has gone up over time. But the Africa Twin is one that is difficult to define as either mid sized or big. While I can see an argument either way, I would have to agree that the AT is big - because it seems big. The problem with that conclusion is that weight wise, the non-DCT version is about the same as the the BMW F 850 GS, so many videos compare the AT to mid-sized bikes when it's convenient and big bikes other times, which begs the question: is the AT a big or mid sized adventure bike? Another problem is the KTM 690 Enduro R - as an adventure bike? I would argue that it is not an adventure bike, but that it is a ‘dual sport’. But then what about the CRF 300 L Rally? Is it really an ‘adventure’ bike? Or is it actually a ‘dual sport’? Fun to contemplate. Thanks again for finally saying what no one else on UA-cam has had the guts to say! I ride in your area, so it would be fun to run into you someday - Cheers
In Asia we typically use 70cc to 150cc road bikes all year round all weathers. Usually with the cheapest road tires we can find. Keep the technology simple you may need to repair it alone mile from any where
Wise words! As someone who started his off-road journey on ‘17 GSA take what Ian is saying to heart. I made it nightmarishly hard on myself upfront without really having to. I’m not saying that it can’t be done but I dismiss people who start there for the “challenge.” What does challenging yourself mean when you can’t even learn or develop technique because your bike is in the way? On a big Adventure bike you bring the difficulty with you! Spend time on a smaller bike to develop skills, comfort, and experience theeeen move up. Take it from me, everyone at Starbucks will be jelly when you show up with a dirty bike! :)
It's a good start to have off road experience on an enduro/ dirt bike , but there is the other side of the coin also 😉. I have friends with much greater off road experience then me , they ride with very light bikes ( 120-140kg) but when they jump on a 200kg adv bike... it's a different story for them 😆😆. Since people tend to buy bigger bikes than they need and can handle ( everybody dreams about the big GS , SuperTenere, AT etc) , that's a subject that maybe Ian should have emphasised more: choosing the proper sized bike for you (that fits your experience /measurements etc) + the weight of the bike, you should be able to handle the weight and pick it up at least 2-3 times when it's packed 😉.
I finally cracked the code. Bigger is better for daily commuting and the OCCASIONAL B road. Smaller is better if you ONLY off road. If you can only own one to do everything, I think smaller is better. I've finally got my ideal setup. V-Strom 1050 for daily commute and KLR for everything else on the planet 🙂
on Off road the best are the "small" ADV, Like: Honda 300l, Suzuki V-Strom SX 250, Royal Endfield Hymalayan, Kawasaki Versys 300, BMW GS 310 (TVS brand).
Thanks for always putting so much effort into these videos, the quality speaks for itself. This was really helpful and insightful and that's saying something when there are hundreds or maybe thousands of videos about bike breakdowns. This one stood out. Thank you!
Mid size is the best for me. It is easier and cheaper to maintain. It is cheaper to buy. It is lighter to lift up when you drop the bike on the trail. If you get a 650cc or more with a twin engine, you have enough speed and power to ride on highways. I have a VStrom 650 and she does everything I need her to do. I have enough power to keep up with bikes having a bigger displacement. She is the perfect bike for me.
I'm not even debating Adv bike size right now, my GS750 was my first forestry road bike and very forgiving. But I was still too nervous, and have now gone back to street riding and my gravel bicycle. So why am I watching, because I REALLY enjoy your channel. Cheers and thanks!
Hi, jan gunnar egge from Norway here, thanks for informative aspects of choosing adventure bike. I,m a retired fireman(57), and use a lot of my time riding MC. In the last years, i have tried a lot of different adv bikes. All from Africa Twin (2017), Ktm 1290 SA(2018) Triumph Tiger 1200(2018) BMW GS1200(2019) BMW GSA 1250(2020), Triumph Tiger 900 Rally(2021), and today, my current bike is a new 2022 BMW 1250 GSA. I drive mostly on tarmac(70%), gravel(25%) and some little easier fire-roads (5%). All of this bikes has different benefits, and all of them are great bikes. After plenty of kilometers in all these conditions, the BMW GSA,s versatility was the crucial point for me. And it is obviously the most comfortable of them all. In the south part of Norway where i live, it can be a huge of different climate conditions. A daily trip can be up to 800 kilometers(500 miles), and i spend up to 10-12 hours in the saddle. The temperature can vary from 30 degrese C(86F) in the lower fjords, and down to 5 degrese C(41F) on the mountain roads, all on the same trip. Then you need a comfy heated seat, heated grips, good weather protection, and a functional windscreen. I,m a tall person(195cm), 6,5", so i need a "big bike" as well. So now, after trying all these bikes, i have "landed" on the GSA, and put my "anchor" here. . Shaft drive and superb radius(30 liters tank), 8 gallons, are also welcome criterias. The Tiger 900 Rally was a excellent bike, but its limitations was the "comfort", compared to the GSA. So i,m super satisfied with my GSA, and looking foreward to every time i start it up for a ride. I,m not surprised why that this i one of the most best motorcycles in the world : ))
Great video Ian, been watching quite a few of your videos today and I like the way in which you explain the key points for all types of riders. I would ask that you consider covering seat height in your videos. For any people like me 57 year old male, 5ft 6” short with a 29” inseam. For me personally and many other short people, I know that the seat height factor is the one main decider for many of us short arses in the world. The reason I got rid of my GS1200 even though it had all the lowered adjustments made to it, it still made me feel twitchy when coming to a stop at lights. It was a fantastic bike to ride on long journeys, but just too high to make me feel safe. Mostly every bike I have owned, the seat height has always been the decider. Try sticking shorter rider adventure bike suggestions in your video titles and see how many more people view your site, once they know you cater for little people. Thanks again for sharing your videos, I will continue taking more in. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I'm only 5ft 6 with a 29 inch inseam. I have a brand new 1290 SAS. No issues. My previous bike was a 2018 v strom 1000. Never had a single issue with height or weight.
This is a great video. I was riding big touring bikes for many years and got interested in riding farm roads near my home so picked up a used KLR. I never had any experience riding anything other than tarmac. My buddy was a excellent and he took me out a few times. Country roads were fine on the bike but we started riding in narrow roads with ruts and big puddles and that’s where I really started failing. He had a much lighter bike and could easily handle anything we road on. After ending up tangled in a barbed wire fence I gave it up. He said I needed to be riding a lighter bike and I can really appreciate your statement on too big a bike and no confidence.
Thanks, For each section that I look at what you highlight, I note that you have a natural ability to provide good teaching. You are both methodical and pedagogical. It's a pleasure to be one of your followers. Keep up the good work. Greetings from a wintry Sweden / Pelle
Very good break down of those two sizes, nothing really new for people who research and watch videos about motorcycles a lot, but compressed in very easy understandable package here. Hope someone who's struggling to grasp the difference sees this video! Good job!
I have a FJR1300 (sport touring) and I have been all over BC with it, including some 9+ day motocamping trips. Over the past couple years, I've been doing more and more forestry roads and have gotten myself into some interesting places. But it's definitely time to get an adventure bike. I've been loving the comparisons you do on the bikes and that's been a great help! If I wasn't motocamping, I agree that a midsize ADV is ideal; I'd probably get a T7 if I could. But with all of the camping gear I use, your videos have been suggesting that an Africa Twin is probably the ideal one for me. Though it's hard to say goodbye to the FJR, but I can't keep both (not enough room).
Ha! I bought my FJ 1200 the year it came out (1984). Used it for 9 years, traveled all over Canada and US. I bought a BMW K1100 RS in 1993 and retired the FJ. It had 130,000 km on it without a single problem, not even adjusted the valve clearances and it was still running perfectly. After 60,000 km on the BMW, I decided to switch to a dual sports bike and bought a KLR 6550 in 1994. That followed a switch to a DR650 in 1999. After putting 60,000 dirt miles on both bikes I learned my lesson: For off-road adventure Turing and for camping in the middle of nowhere type of places, lightweight travel is the way to go. My choice these days would be something like a KTM 650 or something similar in size.
These are personal categories and differ from driver to driver. So you cannot tell if a seat high is generally suited or not but you can tell if a bike is heavy or not driver independent.
They are what's most important. If the the person is too small for a big bike it's more likely to end bad. It doesn't matter how much camping crap on a bike if you can't fit on it in the first place. Which is why Ian got rid of the gsa, it was just too much bike for a little guy.
Just started watching your channel a few days ago and I must say that I like it a lot. You don’t just ramble off a bunch of specs, you give details and explain “why “. I thought I wanted a KTM but I think realistically a Africa Twin would suit me much better. Thank you for the info.
I noticed a lot of people talk about horse power, but never about torque, torque is very important and it's more relevant than horse power at any speed, and specially in uphill situations
In 2002 I bought a BMW 1150 Adventurer R. I’m 5’-6” tall and at the time I weighed about 240lbs…NOT FAT…LOL… I’m was 41 years old in great shape. I’ve been riding since I’ve been 6 years old… both motocross and Trials. The bike was awesome on the road. The minute I left the pavement, it became unmanageable. The height and weight made it impossible for me to STOP on uneven or loose ground. I couldn’t plant my foot with enough traction before the bikes weight broke the plane of gravity and became too heavy. All the short rider tricks in the world won’t help at that point. Even in traffic at stop lights, it was cumbersome to manage. That said… I loved it once I was mounted and moving… Unfortunately, after owning it for a year, I made the decision to sell it. I found that in spite of my physical strength… and I was brutally strong at that stage in my life; it became not fun to go off road. Even crushed stone roads were tiring to do any type of maneuvers which required me to stop or even dismount. Man handling a 600+ pound motorcycle all day long in loose ground conditions was taking all the fun out of it for me. I found myself using it almost exactly the same way I rode my Harley-Davidson ultra classic. On the road… always slowing down for the off road adventure entrances only to ride on by… Another thing to consider… which none of these channels ever mention… these bikes are WAY too expensive to be just dropping all the time. Even if money is not an issue for you… it’s kind of disheartening to tear up a $25k bike unnecessarily, because it’s too damn big for you. And then there’s the knee injuries to consider as well. The natural reaction to loosing your balance off-road is to attempt to recorrect by throwing that leg out for the save… bad idea with 600+ pounds moving at 20mph or so… Now I’m 59… I feel like I’m 80 physically… lol… I’ve been pretty hard on the skeletal structure…lol… Mentally though, I feel like I’m 20! Could be an old head injury but… I’m once again thinking about my glory days and looking into a few different bikes. One thing I’ve learned is that ALL of these bike manufacturers hate short guys like me. The seat heights on these bikes have gotten ridiculously tall. 36”-38”… big shout out to all you a$$holes who design these things… thanks. Anyways, I’ve been looking at a couple different ones pretty closely. So far, the 2022 Husqvarna 701LR is looking pretty good. There’s a lowering kit that brings the seat down to around 34-1/2”… still tall for me but… there are few options… maybe I can rework the seat a bit too… the combination of its 380 pound wet weight and the lowered suspension seems very promising too me. My other option… and the only reason I don’t have the Husky on order… is the new Duck Desert X in the wings. It’s seat height is 34-1/2” stock. The weight is closer to 500lbs but the suspension seems to have plenty of room to lower it some… and reworking the seat would help to lower this bike down substantially. Now I’m wrestling with this… 1st year model Ducati that will cost upwards of 20k+ or a Husky that looks more like a motocross bike for about 3/4 the price after adding all the upgrades and bling… Both awesome steeds… but which one will I be happier with? I’m thinking… BOTH! Unfortunately, my bank account and common sense mode is think… “Your insane… buy a big screen tv and a new recliner.”
thanks for the post. BMW does offer low suspension and low seats. The F750GS can be as low as 30 inches. I am doing a video on bikes for short riders soon
I started with a Honda CRF 250L riding 50/50 and loved the bike, but on road at higher speeds with crosswinds and trucks really was an awful feeling and made riding a poor experience. I lucked out and scored a T7 and what a world of difference this bike has made in my confidence as a rider. I'm guessing with all my ad ons I'm probably a little over 500 pounds and I'm not finding the weight to be an issue off road other than turning around in a real tight spot. Now, if I could decide on a set of tires that are good off road and will be good on a road trip as well. Decisions decisions. Thank you for your videos, they are always the best and informative.
My intimidation factor for deciding to even buy a bike, is of financial nature. I'm somewhere near middle class when it comes to income (looking at worldwide average), I'm a photographer and I earn around 3,400 EUR a month, however I do have expenses on a house, a car and two dogs to take care of, leaving me with about 400 EUR a month to save/spend freely after everything's been bought, paid and done every month. I have saved up 22,000 EUR and I am looking for a new 2023+ ADV bike and my fear of owning and riding such a bike comes from not only variations between monthly/yearly bike expenses but also from e.g dropping the bike, damaging the frame, exhaust pipe or something expensive and then having to pay ridiculous amounts of money for it... Which for example even on my new BMW 5 series, if I were to let's say crash head on and damage/crush/bend the hood, headlights, radiator and body, all of that, including paintjob, wouldn't cost me over 2,000 EUR, where as for example on 2024 1250 GS, I've seen a guy on a forum post a receipt for two small parts on a clutch or something that he damaged when his bike fell WHILE PARKED, came up to just over 2,400 EUR for both of those small parts, which is just crazy to me... The entire clutch system on a car doesn't cost that much... That's my only fear and only reason for stopping me from buying and riding a full sized ADV bike.
Great breakdown of considerations. The weight factor is a bit misleading as the Boxer twin and KTM low-mounted fuel tanks *really* belie their weight with great balance at low speeds. (As you’ve talked about before.) Nice breakdown!
In my humble opinion, an adventure bike has to be light enough for the rider to be able to lift it straight up in case he/she drops it. If it is too heavy, then the person limits can go, and obviously, if it is responsible, can't ride alone. On that line, then a bike heavy than 180kg will not be an option. It seems to me that bikes up to 650cc and about 50 hp will be ideal. Thank you for your input. Cheers from Tasmania
Thanks for a nice overview of the genre. I have a 1st gen KLR 650, and a ‘21 Honda CRF Rally. Sometimes I wish that the KLR was a bit bigger, and that the Rally was a bit smaller. After many decades of riding, I’m thinking of getting a strictly dirt bike to hone my off-road skill set. Happy Trails
Hello, first I would like to say that your videos are very comprehensive and informative. Very serious. I have owned both the GS and T7 and can honestly say that T7 is my unicorn. It’s light and nimble, tall and slender. It makes me a better, or at least more comfortable rider off-road, and as good on-road. GS is big, heavy it’s build to cross continents on open, paved road with lots of luggage and pillion. When I was with the GS I always felt un-utilised, here is the machine that can run for hours at 120kmh and cross the continent and here is me going for a 1h drive after work, or a 4h drive on weekend after I finished my family chores. T7 does not fill me with that waisted utilisation. 1h on a sharp uphill twisty just to see the view or plowing through farmer’s filed after rain is plenty rewarding. I still know I can cross the continent, but not just now. And last but not least, I am over 6ft tall and 200lb+ and there is not a lot of bikes that feel comfortable at my height&weight. Yamaha Tenere 700 is. Just to mention that I test rode the Aprillia Touareg 2022 and it was too small and flimsy. Too much information flowing from that TFT monitor and keeps my eyes from the road.
I liked your comparison chart. It makes a lot of sense. To make an informed choice you really need to know what kind of riding you want to do, AND the types of adventures you will realistically do. If a bike buying mistake is made I think this is where most people make it. They fall for the marketing. I’ve decided early on that the technical riding isn’t as important to me in terms of an adventure. If I want to ride serious technical terrain I do it close to home, or truck my bike (WR250R) near where I want to go. I don’t even consider taking a big bike on technical stuff. If you decide to ride with others on technical terrain what you are really agreeing to is to help them pick up their bike all day. I fully acknowledge there are some (a very small number) people that have the physical stamina and skill to ride big bikes in technical terrain. My thought and experience is that there are a lot more people that think they do that don’t.
Great video! Really liking your content. You hit on some very important points. So many factors to consider when buying your first adv bike or upgrading as I did(klr to Africa twin). Where you live in relation to where you want to ride and if you never carry a passenger are also big factors. I loved the agility and simplicity of my klr but it wasn’t fun riding loaded on the highway to go on adv trips that required a good chunk of asphalt to get to the off-road areas. I also believe your age and fitness level matter.
This is basic motorcycle information, nicely presented. It occurs to me that Ian is to Adventure Motorcycling as Colin Fletcher is to Hiking! I'd like to see a similar presentation to this one about selecting a dual sport vs. an adventure bike. Thanks.
Love the footage of you feeding those dirt corners with your mid size bike , Great presentation mate, well constructed, precise and relevant information. A thinking bike riders channel!!
I'm going with a crf 300 rally. Not really doing "adventure", while I might some, but mainly it's for riding from a mid sized city, out to farm land, around the fields to inspect and back. Highway, paved county roads and dirt/mud... 80-100 miles per trip. Enough fuel, high high mpg (70+) and small enough for a mid 50s age, 5'5" tall guy who has riden a few bikes over at least 40 years.
The BMW 1250GS/1300GS are of course great adventure bikes but they are like elephants to me. The mix of their massive weight, seat height, and bulky body make them a bike that is not the best choice for all riders. Yes, anyone can get enough experience to ride any bike despite their size/weight but that takes a while, most riders will never get to that level of experience and still these bikes are not practical in many real world situations. Many people buy products with emotions only, I'd suggest a stronger thought process whenever the purchase is substantial and will have strong consequences. Stay safe and keep the videos coming. Very realistic points and good advice. Thank you!
I am taking less weight over more power every time the choice comes up due to the advantages lower of weight. Example: the CRF 300L (and rally) have roughly the same P/W ratio as a KLR. Why have the extra 120+lbs in the first place if the P/W is the same? And you can intake/exhaust/ecu that smaller bike and give it a P/W equivalent with even more bikes. The big ADV bikes are just tourers with the option to go off road. You aren't going to be riding them like the guys in the marketing videos.
Power to weight on the klr is almost non existent it's the power of a lawn mower with the weight of an Anvil! And the crf300 is 26hp / 146kg 0.18hp/kg. 42.1hp 196kg for the klr. Is 0.21 hp/kg unless I'm mistaken.
@Big Rock Moto: Superb 8 characteristics table! I love It and it actually also works pretty well if you add a third column with light weight bikes... Unless you don't want to include dual purposes in the same chart.
Weight low-down is a benefit, I feel. You allude to this. I used to love my old R1100GS for this, but my XB12X Ulysses had a low c of g with its fuel in the frame. The T7 looks really top-heavy.
really good comparison! I am actually thinking between Aprilia Tuareg 660 and GS1250Adv. very informative. I like that you are down to earth with comparison criteria and actually put yourself in the average guy shoes. keep up the good work! greetings from Romania :)
With all the spectacular (and rough) offroading you can do in your vast and varied country, I think a smaller, nimbler bike is the way to go. Good luck with your purchase and adventures :)
I also looked at the Tuareg, but realized that the dealer network is not developed in our area, so ruled it out for myself. If the Tenere 700 brought to us in Russia, I would not even think, but alas. I don`t consider GS 1250 a priori (there are much better models in this category). In my opinion a very interesting bike for adventure trips husqvarna 701 LR. It would be interesting to hear the opinion of owners about it, who travels long distances.
The price and weight alone would made my decision. Imagine your first offRoad experience. You throw away your bike and have to lift it up. Which one hurts more? I know the GS does not fall that way down ... but could you even lift it up from half way ...
After 3x GSA, my next one will lighter. Those monsters (GSA) are insane to lift up, especially when they are loaded with personal gear (you easily add 100 pounds / 50 kg) ! Worst to mention all the extra components you need to add to properly protect your bike ... Aprilia Tuareg 660 is on my top list. I don't need more power, equipped with nice feature like cruise control for long distances transfers.
I have NEVER seen any serious off road adventurer use a full size adventure bike to ride deep into nowhere for days. They either use light weight or at worst a mid-size adventure bike. The lightest weight, high reliability, decent fuel efficiency bike you can get - is the best one for actual adventure riding.
Riding skills should not be underestimated. Ive been riding 500-850cc bikes and once i got a GS1200 and went off roading....i dropped that pig of a bike so much that i was tired from picking it back up each time. It's also not just the size overall but the height of these european bikes too. At shy of less than 6' tall, my heels don't touch the ground and going reverse was tough at times. 😅
All this tells me that I was very good in picking my 2017 Honda Africa Twin CRF1000L. Kinda right in the middle of it all, been enjoying it so far, and watching your videos help aim me where to work on my own riding with the bike so I can keep up with it. Great video and advice
With motorbikes like the Tenere 700 It's hard to find a reason for a full size adventure bike. The Tenere (or a few other in the same market category today) can do it all. Good power, ride sustained periods of time at 70mph+, good carry capacity, adequate ride comfort, off road capabilities, lower weight, etc. Plus, they are WAY more affordable.
As you showed no motorcycle can check all the boxes. It’s all about the rider and how he is going to use the bike. I primarily ride on roads sometimes for longer distances. The larger adventure style bikes are still lighter and more comfortable then the sport touring bikes they have been replacing. Think mid 500lbs for a GS or Versys 1000 vs mid 600lbs for an FJR and more still for an old ST1300. There’s a compromise somewhere between comfort, weight, power and intended use.
I still hope to own a big GSA but when I looked around, the best bang for my buck was the KTM 950/990 adventures. They can do it all and can be had for a song.
What you're saying is that peak ADV motorcycling would be to haul a TW200 on the back of your R1250GS? Got it. I would divide the classes of ADV bikes by weight instead of engine size. Weight seems to be a more defining characteristic in the field.
I realized I truly need two motorcycles. I bought a 2016 Africa Twin. It is amazing on the highway and dirt roads. I am on my tiptoes/balls of my feet when both feet are down (my only "complaint" with a 30" inseam). It fits more than 90% of my riding. BUT, it is not like the 1974 Honda XL250 I bought new back then. Good off-road capable and I can basically "flat foot" both feet down. That bike did most everything I wanted to do except extended highway rides without being vibrated from the single cylinder. Likewise, this bike fit more than 90% of my riding. Sadly, I sold the XL250 a few years afterwards. I wish I had kept it. Fortunately I found another one XL250 - it is an easy project, but will be exciting when I complete the "rideable" restoration. It is meant to be used when my Africa Twin would not be easy to negotiate the terrain. So two different motorcycles will meet 100% of my riding needs. There is a large overlap but no one bike can do everything. Choose what is most important to you if you can have only one. By the way, I actually have a 3rd bike. It is a bicycle - mountain/off road style. That off-road riding is well engrained in this 70 year old body.
Excellent advice at the end there! I would add that the off road skills gained in one of those courses are perishable, and the best way to get better at riding your bike is to ride your bike. Preferably with better riders, in a group, and at your skills limit or max comfort level. That said, I ride alone for 90% of my mileage, so light weight and off road capability are my priorities. Faced with a highway, I can go slower, or pick backroads to get where I am going, but that easy single track or washed out quad trail is not going to give me options except turn around if I pick a larger bike. YMMV, of course, but I would suggest that people are more likely to do well if they start on a bike that is too small than if they start on a bike that is too large. Less cost, less chance of injury or expensive unplanned dismount. Great video, and subscribed! Lastly, to categorize an ADV bike as being able to carry luggage, absolutely. Luggage AND a passenger, not so much. I would say luggage OR a passenger. So in a pinch, you can transport a rider whose bike was FUBAR back to civilization. People travelling with a passenger AND luggage are a tiny fraction of the ADV market, and for good reason.
You really hit the nail on the head...for those people who are only doing marketing on there product.. you have explained so well for a person like me watching videos all day long and getting totally confused..about which bike to select. You made my life easier, I appreciate your efforts best of luck. Regards
The fastest growing Adventure class is the small adventure bikes. I bought the Kawasaki Versys X300 - why - it is easy to handle and lighter than the larger offerings. Why is light important? it is what I can handle with my aging capabilities. And it is just fun, and you can modify the X300 in many different ways. Please see my channel for videos on many upgrades. Also, it is cheap. Also, it means the X300 meets your four criteria in the beginning of the video. It's just doesn't have the big power. But for me I've gotten all the go fast 130+ mph out of my system back in my youth. Enjoy what you can handle and afford. Great video. and thanks for sharing.
Thank you for consolidating the information. California dreaming from D.C. where it is been unseasonably cold the last few weeks! Took the V-Strom for a ride yesterday as the temp had climbed to 37F, I was bundled up, but I definitely need warmer gloves!
Great summary! Though I'd personally adjust the divider between mid and full size down slightly. The Africa twin 1000 and KTM 990 are both below 1000 yet I'd say they're full size bikes. Furthermore mid size bikes are more commonly adapted to offroad, which is giving them benefits in the technical riding, tend to be a drawback on paved backroads. They often have 21/18" wheels compared to full size bikes having wider 19/17" wheels. Affecting tire possibilities and handling. Longer travel and potentially softer suspension further affecting on road performance. And then comes the power, which sure is its own category but still affects overall experience on paved surfaces. A note to your mention of power to weight; It should be calculated on the bike with load, both driver and any luggage. Say you have 50 power and 100 weight on the mid and 100 power and 200 weight on the full size. If you just consider the bikes they both have 0,5 power to weight. However if you load both bikes with an additional 100 weight consisting of yourself and your luggage the mid will have 0,25 ratio and the full size only decreasing to 0,33. Kind of mentioned when you talked about luggage capacity, yet many people forget to consider this when talking specs. :) Again, great video. Cheers!
Rode RTW a number of times. Found that mid size bike is the best. Carried what I could fit in saddlebags . Lifting bike on to boats and easier to get around city's remember weight always matter.
Nice video, thank you. I thought your breakdown was informative and along the same lines of what I am coming to learn as a new potential adventure bike purchaser. It’s a shame some folks will quibble with how you broke your categories but for the general masses this will be helpful. Yes, the BMW 1250 is big bike, and yes the Honda CB500x straddles the light and mid weight lines, but that wasn’t the big point was it. It’s seeing the larger picture and then adjusting to your expectations and experiences. Things that work in the US won’t necessarily work in the UK or Romania and vice versa. In my opinion, your categories hit the mark. Good job!
Another great video Ian (sp?). I've mentioned before I appreciate your "data driven" approach to evaluations, I guess because I evaluate things the same way. Coming from a 650 Strom to my AT, I gained much better suspension and off road capability at the expense of a lot of weight with the AT. I think a 1000 cc motor also makes the bike feel heavier due to gyroscopic forces from the motor. For me, I'd prefer a Japanese mid-sized ADV bike (sorry Austria, reliability/parts availability is to important to me). Unfortunately a T7 isn't really an option in Cali due to availability, at least for the mean time. A wee-Strom with a bit more/better suspension travel plus 18/21 wheel set would be a great option. Love that V-twin motor. So until the mid-sized market has more available options, I'll stick to my AT and adjust my routes to avoid more technical trails unless I'm in a proper group. Keep the great content coming and thanks!
I had a 1968 Victor 444 cubic inch single cylinder, that could handle anything , I came across. Your info he is very helpful . I should done more research and bought a twin Honda or Triumph ! I doe not care how much that Single cylinder Royal Enfield is touted , it’s a single Cylinder engine , that will not only beat itself up , but will beat you up too.
Before you even start comparing the pros & cons between those mid-sized and big ADV bikes, you first might want to check your own size and leg length. For some, the result will already exclude certain bikes. Works both ways - too tall or too small...
I look to balance the lightest weight with the most reliability. The ability to carry a weekends worth of gear, and be able to maintain a true 70 mph in case I have to ride a 65 mph road or run one exit down an interstate. I am currently using a KLX300SM for this purpose. I added an adventure windscreen with center GPS mount, handguards, sargent seat, luggage rack with a rotopack mount, Wolfman luggage, ICON field pack backpack, and grip puppies. Works well, and the Supermoto tires have only gotten sketchy in true muddy situations. I might put some 70/30 tires on and ride the MABDR this summer.
I don’t do hard off-road stuff so for me who likes to do long trips full ADV is gonna be my choice Thought about buying a cruiser or a tourer but ADV bikes are so much more versatile and can carry much more stuff in my opinion
Couldn’t agree more about your dirt bike comment. I feel that everyone that rides should spend time in the dirt. Also, mountain biking helps heaps. Great video.
I prefer to use the label adventure touring for the big bikes because all of them are touring motorcycles that can go off road. KTM, HD, BMW, all off the 1000+ ADVs. The midsize bikes are more offroad oriented. The small displacement bikes are better suited to getting your feet wet before moving up. I have a BMW R1250GSA, I commute 50 miles per day, I ride it in an off-road park on weekends. I can ride it in more technical environments, but it's honestly a lot more fun on back roads, even horse trails and less challenging hiking trails. Like you said, these bikes do everything well enough, you have to pick the bike that best suits what you plan to do with it.
My first bike is a Vstrom 650. And its also my first off-road experience, it definitely is intimidating off-road but i enjoy it. Though... it has made me want a Duel Sport for more technical stuff.
I had a klr 650 for years . BUT I NEEDED A BETTER LONG DISTANCE AT SPEED CARRYING MYSELF ,WIFE AND CAMPING GEAR. I LOVED THE BIGGER gsa but price was a issue . I chose the 850 GSA I got the comfort and power I badly wanted and saved alot allowing me to fit the bike exactly how I dreamed. Once fully loaded she is heavy up high but quickly goes away once moving.
Thanks for this review. I live in Idaho and it's windy. I found that my Dr 650 is significantly affected by cross and head winds. I blew a clutch driving into a significant headwind. My companions on bigger bikes had no issues at all. I'm upgrading to a vstrom1000 just for horse power.
I had an Honda XR 250R, in the north of the Netherlands, so windy too. Never experienced that problem. Never blew a clutch. Only 32 hp. But in a way you right, heavy bikse tend to have less problems in wind. On the other side, there is no way you can keep up with a heavy adventure bike in serious off roading with an old XR 250R. The massive weight will be a big disadvantage.
disagree on gravel. the lighter the better. heavy bikes suck on gravel. mid size wins both categories off road. i have only owned full size. they are great, as you point out, for long touring, speed, and comfort. but off road has been kind of hairy, so much so, that I am going to go down to a mid size as my bike sometime this year. i'm sure i will miss the weight of the full size on the freeway... we'll find out. what's the solution? two bikes. but i cant do that. thanks for the excellent vid.
I would still appreciate a topic on small ADV, because it has some winning points in front of the other two category, and it is more beginners friendly. I should say that owning one small adv first, it is a step to gain confidence and experience at a lower risk and price, while you can still make a lot of km/miles or why not, around the world trip.
I agree Sipos. I currently have a Honda XR150 dual-purpose, an old Honda XL400V TransAlp and a BMW F800 GS. I've been on longer trips with the 150 than either of the others (having owned it for longer) Not as comfortable or nearly as fast but a lot easier and more fun in the tight stuff!
750 was considered massive until the late 90's, manufacturers keep pushing/marketing that bigger is better. I enjoy speeding 155 mph on my 1290 KTM every now and then, but most people don't need 160 horse.
I’d add drivetrain to the list. A drive shaft to me is a huge advantage over a chain. Would be one of the main reason to take a 1250 GS over the smaller siblings.
Bought a new sym nht 300 for first motorcycle and i love it simple machine cheap maintenance doesn't burn more fuel than my car can do off-road can do highway good all-rounder and cheap too
I have a BMW f850 GS, mid-size but rides like a big bike. A person needs to ask themself what their skill level is and where they want to ride. I'm probably one of the few BMW riders who actually go off road and test their bike and skills. I know where NOT to take my bike with my skill level. Great video, as always.
Another great video. I love your channels growth and improvement over the last year. I agree with you 100%. I spent 3 years riding a CB500X before getting my Africa Twin 1100. Riding the smaller bike was great for learning, and i actually think my next ADV will be something in between in size. A T7 or a KTM 890. I don't really subscribe to taking my ADV on single track much, but love to ride them on dirt roads and gravel. I do think i want to keep a lighter dual sport in the garage for the more technical stuff. Love your editing, and the preparation you are putting into your videos. Thanks Ian.
I ride a 1200 cc Tiger Desert - the off-road leaning one. I don't go off-road off-road - I just appreciate the ability to confidently cross a field or go down a muddy road if the need arises. I needed a bike for trips and twisties and runs to the store, but also one that can carry some luggage and maybe a pillion. That left me choosing between an adventure bike, a sport-cruiser, a cruiser bagger, or a goldwing type. I chose an adventure bike because of the riding position. My Tiger 1200 has 140 HP for sustained high cruising speed with a load, and 90 torks down low for real world fun. The Goldwing riding position is nice too, but not yet.
Do you think that it could also have some dependence on the persons size, age, physical capabilities etc. While I realise there are those of us older generations (eg. retireys) that are fully capable, most would prefer the lighter mid size bikes.
I jumped into the ADV space straight to a new R1250GSA from sport bikes my whole riding career. I'm also only 5'7". It has been quite the learning experience when I find myself on trail roads that turn quite rocky here in the northeast.
Throw some protection and a wind screen on a Triumph Scrambler 1200. Get the OEM side-bag and throw a dry bag over the seat. Light weight big engine ADV bike.
I wish the mid-weight bikes would come down a bit in both size and CCs. I think the T7 and the Touareg are right in the sweet spot, while the KTM 890 and the Ducati DesertX are really big bikes.
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Great advice and info! The benefits of dirt biking from youth to adulthood, is often forgotten by most of us. We just progress onto the next chapter of bike, with somewhat ease. But I see so many adults getting into mid and full size adv bikes, with little or no experience. This video will help more people than you realize. If it's not fun, it's done! So hopefully this will aid many on making a "fun" purchase :-) Well done! Cheers to a wonderful 2022 riding season ehh 🇨🇦
This is the most honest and accurate review of the difference between the beefcake and midsize adv bikes. Anyone other than a pro who thinks they're going to ride a beefcake on anything other than graded dirt/gravel roads is in for an expensive surprise and disappointment. Thanks for the content. Cheers from OZ
Can you explain a little ?
I think there should be 4 size classification small up to 450cc, medium 450cc to 750cc, large 750cc to 1000cc and over sized 1000cc + . But not be restricted to just classed by engine size.
A classification seems always hard. Like for example the 2016 Africa Twin. Is it "over size" or "just" mid/ large? Or the Tiger: although the Tiger 900 seems heavy and definitely large, the Tiger 800, especially the first models seem much more nimble and medium size.
The weight should be considered as well. A 650 ccm V-Strom is heavier than a T7, which matters offoad but means more comfort onroad. So it's always a combination between motor size and weight.
I don't know. The new 300cc 4T bikes coming out really seem to be creating their own niche like the CRF300L Rally.
450cc is not small, that is heavy big bike off-road. 450cc in cross bikes is the biggest you get, if I not remember wrong. More like 50-300cc is small. You don't need to go 60mph + off-road.
125cc stand proud in here as well
@@marcochavane3124 funny thing is the 300 rally is really only a 250 with a big idea
I have learnt that even old topics are worth watching when you take them on. Great work. /Rob
thanks!
Dude, you seriously have the most comprehensive videos, time after time, than anyone...thanks for putting all the work into keeping the rest of us fully informed.
I really appreciate your channel. It's one of only two motorcycle channels I follow, because of the great content. I'd only add one thing - adventure is in the use. Ed March turned a Honda C90 into an ADV bike because of how he used it. Not that a Goldwing or a Street Glide is no different than a T7, but that we get so caught up in having the "right" bike or gear, we can miss the adventure. Ride what you own, upgrade as you need, but most importantly - have a good time (and be safe if you can). Again, great video, great channel, great advice.
totally agree with that sentiment,. thanks
yup. all bikes are adventure bikes. (well, if taken on an adventure). But otherwise Ian's points are valid.
@@steveh545 Ian’s points are usually valid. Like most internet commenters, I just couldn’t help but add my two cents.
Big bikes are better for highway adventures. Smaller bikes are better for back roads, dirt roads and off road adventures. My G310GS is the best I've found for my adventures, riding back roads, dirt roads and off roads, and ultralight camping. I wish it had a 5 gallon fuel tank and maybe a suspension upgrade. The CRF300L Rally looks good to me as well. A friend just bought a big GS. It's gorgeous and no doubt a very comfortable bike for long highway miles, but I have a 4Runner for that.
@@Liberty4Ever I agree. My last bike was an RE Himalayan, and I loved it, but it just couldn't do what I needed. I'm a big guy and live in the Midwest, so I need a moderately capable bike on the highway to get to more interesting riding grounds.
You forgott to mention something very important: Emotions! Many of us buy a bike just because we like it so much (I bought an Adventure R, knowing it is lightyears better then I will ever be offroad :). Thanks for your clips mate, I like them alot.
Greetings from the heart of Switzerland.
Couldn't agree more!
Excellent perspective. I think biggest takeaways are:
1) Don't ride bikes that intimidate you (it could save your life)
2) Be humble enough to take training/classes
3) Be realistic with where your riding skills are at and start small/light and build up
well said
Man, just don't buy more bike than you can ride !
Major consideration is can you pick it up by yourself if you lay it down in the mud? Anything over 400lbs starts to get ridiculous for most folks. So that 1250 BMW is at the fat end of no thank you.
The BMW is actually quite easy to pick up thanks to the boxer engine. You get it half way just tipping on the cylinder, and then ”easy” to back up. A slim bike, like the KTMs are more difficult because you don’t have the tipping point. I used to ride a KTM 1190 Adv R and it was a bitch for me to pick up. I have the nerdy desk rider build …
I think you hit the nail on the head. Excellent brake down between the different bikes. I have a Honda NC700X that I have set up and used as a adventure bike and I just changed to a Honda CRF300L Rally because the 700 is just to heavy for me to be picking up. I guess I am a little more of a off road rider then I thought I would be at age 70.
And I'm sure you would appreciate it even more if it was lighter. I think an adventure bike should not weight more than 130 kg, and the Honda is 153 kg. I don't understand why dirty bikes are 110 kg, and dual sport are so heavy instead. I would rather pay more for a dual sport if they could keep the weight down.
@@biomorphic - Then you cant bring what you need to take with you. The lighter the bike, the less you can put on it.
You should check the ItchyBoots Videos. She Rides a CRF300 Honda and has traveled the World on it. Right now She’s going from the Tip of South America all the way to Alaska. She is the very Top of Adventure Riding. You will be Amazed at what she puts that Bike through.
@@joeybobbie1 your a little late telling me that because I have followed her from day one. I don't think I have missed a single video. But thanks for mentioning her the more of us watching the better it is for Noraly.
@@jonlough3074 I plan on it Thanks
I've watched a couple video's from this channel and must say that out of all the content I've watched, listened to, and researched in pursuit of the right ADV bike for two-up riding, this individual seems to put together all the information very well and easy to comprehend. He articulates the info very well and his experience comes through as very knowledgeable.
Your welcome!!! I tune in for nearly every episode that talks about bike that I can't afford for another 20 year
I’ve gone for a 2014 BMW G650gs. It seemed the right size for me as I’m not very tall. I did 3,300km over eight days and it handed the trip like a breeze 😃
Right to the point! I’ve recently moved from a GS1200 Adv to 890R and after some mods it seems perfect to me (at 6ft6 and 240 pounds). 50 kilos less of a bike and superb off-road suspension gets the work done :-)
Exactly . No More gs for me too. Too heavy. It is dangerous.
In most EU countries we have 130-140 km/h on the highway (except on some German freeways where there is no limit at all). Between countries the highway are connected and this way you can travel for hours or even days.
I personally use a highway speed between 130-150km/h in my GSA 1200.
At this speed with a full load the GSA runs smoothly.
Off the highway we usually drive at 100 km/h- 110 km/h. To move with pleasure in central Europe it is good to have good acceleration. In town we mostly use 50+;) km/h.
Hi. While this comparison is reasonable, in my crappy opinion (insert Dirty Harry quote about opinions here) before you consider any bike, you need to ask and answer yourself some very fundamental questions:
1. Where you ride? Climate, distances, fuel availability and road conditions
2. When you ride? Is it just the weekend or for everyday rides including commuting?
3. Why you ride? Assuming ADV riding, do you want to go to known location where conditions are more or less known, or you want to go follow a track you found and don’t know where it goes and what the conditions are? Stay in rooms or camping?
4. How you ride? Group or solo? Fast or slow?
5. How much? Spend for bike, gear, protection, repairs (expect to spend at least 20% of the value of the bike in the first year or two for things, half of them you will find useless after). Also tires burn at least twice as fast in ADV riding. Also, with some exceptions, if and when you sell your bike, you will get 20% less money because for every bike that was taken off-road (scratches, damages etc.) there are 9 that were road only for sale.
I will part with the words that a very wise and experienced round-the-world rider told me when I asked him to compare my then bike, a 2015 R1200GS Adv to the new AT, and which is more valid for my current 790 Adv R: “On-road you will miss the GS, off-road you will forget the GS”
love it. and that quote is golden
Your list is essentially how I approach it as well. To sum it up: Be brutally honest with yourself about how you are going to actually use the bike, not some fantasy of how you are going to use it.
Your comments on riding highways in the western USA are right on. Speeds are very high. In my case, I’ve found it helpful to be able to control my interactions with large trucks/RVs that create huge wind buffeting. That heavily tilts the scale towards bikes that have the power to pass or not get passed by these vehicles (unless you want them to pass you). The amount of weight you intend to carry obviously affects the perceived power you need. As you rightly included fuel distance also plays a huge role. For example, when riding locally my fuel range on a Suzuki VStrom 1000 is routinely 220-240 miles. When the bike is loaded and I’m doing interstate highway travel that range drops to 150-160 miles.
good points
How it drop. Mayb tune
Your channel is the best, by far, when it comes to figuring out purchase decisions for adv bikes. Glad I found it!
Your conclusion has been my conclusion for a long time, but no one has ever come out on UA-cam and said it, until now, and you said it! "Overall, the mid size adventure bike ... is the most versatile type of motorcycle - period!" Other videos seem to ignore that big adventure bikes are primarily good at highway, and what makes them good at highway is mass, consequentially powerful but also big motors, and carrying capacity. It's funny to watch videos that promote 1000+ cc bikes as equals to mid size bikes in all categories, except for maybe price. Defining size categories is also difficult but fun. I think one has to consider the era bikes were built with regards to CC’s - since the cc’s of each category has gone up over time. But the Africa Twin is one that is difficult to define as either mid sized or big. While I can see an argument either way, I would have to agree that the AT is big - because it seems big. The problem with that conclusion is that weight wise, the non-DCT version is about the same as the the BMW F 850 GS, so many videos compare the AT to mid-sized bikes when it's convenient and big bikes other times, which begs the question: is the AT a big or mid sized adventure bike? Another problem is the KTM 690 Enduro R - as an adventure bike? I would argue that it is not an adventure bike, but that it is a ‘dual sport’. But then what about the CRF 300 L Rally? Is it really an ‘adventure’ bike? Or is it actually a ‘dual sport’? Fun to contemplate. Thanks again for finally saying what no one else on UA-cam has had the guts to say! I ride in your area, so it would be fun to run into you someday - Cheers
In Asia we typically use 70cc to 150cc road bikes all year round all weathers. Usually with the cheapest road tires we can find. Keep the technology simple you may need to repair it alone mile from any where
Why do you not like 300cc or so? Way better than 70cv or 150cc. Or is it because of the price?
Wise words! As someone who started his off-road journey on ‘17 GSA take what Ian is saying to heart. I made it nightmarishly hard on myself upfront without really having to. I’m not saying that it can’t be done but I dismiss people who start there for the “challenge.” What does challenging yourself mean when you can’t even learn or develop technique because your bike is in the way? On a big Adventure bike you bring the difficulty with you! Spend time on a smaller bike to develop skills, comfort, and experience theeeen move up. Take it from me, everyone at Starbucks will be jelly when you show up with a dirty bike! :)
agreed. thanks!
It's a good start to have off road experience on an enduro/ dirt bike , but there is the other side of the coin also 😉. I have friends with much greater off road experience then me , they ride with very light bikes ( 120-140kg) but when they jump on a 200kg adv bike... it's a different story for them 😆😆. Since people tend to buy bigger bikes than they need and can handle ( everybody dreams about the big GS , SuperTenere, AT etc) , that's a subject that maybe Ian should have emphasised more: choosing the proper sized bike for you (that fits your experience /measurements etc) + the weight of the bike, you should be able to handle the weight and pick it up at least 2-3 times when it's packed 😉.
I finally cracked the code. Bigger is better for daily commuting and the OCCASIONAL B road. Smaller is better if you ONLY off road. If you can only own one to do everything, I think smaller is better. I've finally got my ideal setup. V-Strom 1050 for daily commute and KLR for everything else on the planet 🙂
great setup
@@BigRockMoto thanks! I'm really happy with it. Still can't stop thinking about what's next though 😁
on Off road the best are the "small" ADV, Like: Honda 300l, Suzuki V-Strom SX 250, Royal Endfield Hymalayan, Kawasaki Versys 300, BMW GS 310 (TVS brand).
Thanks for always putting so much effort into these videos, the quality speaks for itself. This was really helpful and insightful and that's saying something when there are hundreds or maybe thousands of videos about bike breakdowns. This one stood out. Thank you!
Mid size is the best for me. It is easier and cheaper to maintain. It is cheaper to buy. It is lighter to lift up when you drop the bike on the trail. If you get a 650cc or more with a twin engine, you have enough speed and power to ride on highways. I have a VStrom 650 and she does everything I need her to do. I have enough power to keep up with bikes having a bigger displacement. She is the perfect bike for me.
I'm not even debating Adv bike size right now, my GS750 was my first forestry road bike and very forgiving. But I was still too nervous, and have now gone back to street riding and my gravel bicycle. So why am I watching, because I REALLY enjoy your channel. Cheers and thanks!
try a smaller off road bike?
Hi, jan gunnar egge from Norway here, thanks for informative aspects of choosing adventure bike. I,m a retired fireman(57), and use a lot of my time riding MC. In the last years, i have tried a lot of different adv bikes. All from Africa Twin (2017), Ktm 1290 SA(2018) Triumph Tiger 1200(2018) BMW GS1200(2019) BMW GSA 1250(2020), Triumph Tiger 900 Rally(2021), and today, my current bike is a new 2022 BMW 1250 GSA. I drive mostly on tarmac(70%), gravel(25%) and some little easier fire-roads (5%). All of this bikes has different benefits, and all of them are great bikes. After plenty of kilometers in all these conditions, the BMW GSA,s versatility was the crucial point for me. And it is obviously the most comfortable of them all. In the south part of Norway where i live, it can be a huge of different climate conditions. A daily trip can be up to 800 kilometers(500 miles), and i spend up to 10-12 hours in the saddle. The temperature can vary from 30 degrese C(86F) in the lower fjords, and down to 5 degrese C(41F) on the mountain roads, all on the same trip. Then you need a comfy heated seat, heated grips, good weather protection, and a functional windscreen. I,m a tall person(195cm), 6,5", so i need a "big bike" as well. So now, after trying all these bikes, i have "landed" on the GSA, and put my "anchor" here. . Shaft drive and superb radius(30 liters tank), 8 gallons, are also welcome criterias. The Tiger 900 Rally was a excellent bike, but its limitations was the "comfort", compared to the GSA.
So i,m super satisfied with my GSA, and looking foreward to every time i start it up for a ride. I,m not surprised why that this i one of the most best motorcycles in the world : ))
wow thanks for sharing
Great video Ian, been watching quite a few of your videos today and I like the way in which you explain the key points for all types of riders.
I would ask that you consider covering seat height in your videos. For any people like me 57 year old male, 5ft 6” short with a 29” inseam.
For me personally and many other short people, I know that the seat height factor is the one main decider for many of us short arses in the world.
The reason I got rid of my GS1200 even though it had all the lowered adjustments made to it, it still made me feel twitchy when coming to a stop at lights. It was a fantastic bike to ride on long journeys, but just too high to make me feel safe.
Mostly every bike I have owned, the seat height has always been the decider. Try sticking shorter rider adventure bike suggestions in your video titles and see how many more people view your site, once they know you cater for little people.
Thanks again for sharing your videos, I will continue taking more in. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Harley time, bud!
@Big Rock , My Bro you need your own TV show seriously.Each and every video explains things so well .Thank You and keep up the good work.
I'm only 5ft 6 with a 29 inch inseam. I have a brand new 1290 SAS. No issues. My previous bike was a 2018 v strom 1000. Never had a single issue with height or weight.
nice!
Absolutely love your channel! Your delivery is so clear and concise! Thanks so much!
This is a great video. I was riding big touring bikes for many years and got interested in riding farm roads near my home so picked up a used KLR. I never had any experience riding anything other than tarmac. My buddy was a excellent and he took me out a few times. Country roads were fine on the bike but we started riding in narrow roads with ruts and big puddles and that’s where I really started failing. He had a much lighter bike and could easily handle anything we road on. After ending up tangled in a barbed wire fence I gave it up. He said I needed to be riding a lighter bike and I can really appreciate your statement on too big a bike and no confidence.
Two motorcycle channels I subscribe to, Nothing to Prove and Big Rock Moto. Best channels. Period.
Thanks,
For each section that I look at what you highlight, I note that you have a natural ability to provide good teaching. You are both methodical and pedagogical. It's a pleasure to be one of your followers. Keep up the good work. Greetings from a wintry Sweden / Pelle
thank you!
Very good break down of those two sizes, nothing really new for people who research and watch videos about motorcycles a lot, but compressed in very easy understandable package here. Hope someone who's struggling to grasp the difference sees this video! Good job!
I have a FJR1300 (sport touring) and I have been all over BC with it, including some 9+ day motocamping trips. Over the past couple years, I've been doing more and more forestry roads and have gotten myself into some interesting places. But it's definitely time to get an adventure bike. I've been loving the comparisons you do on the bikes and that's been a great help! If I wasn't motocamping, I agree that a midsize ADV is ideal; I'd probably get a T7 if I could. But with all of the camping gear I use, your videos have been suggesting that an Africa Twin is probably the ideal one for me. Though it's hard to say goodbye to the FJR, but I can't keep both (not enough room).
you can never go wrong with an africa twin
I really love the at. I have a 2020 adv sport. It does everything quite well.
I looked at it too, but decided it was too heavy for solo off-roading
@@evgeniysir4220 True, it's one of my concerns I have with it. But I think that's true with almost any bike.
Ha! I bought my FJ 1200 the year it came out (1984). Used it for 9 years, traveled all over Canada and US. I bought a BMW K1100 RS in 1993 and retired the FJ. It had 130,000 km on it without a single problem, not even adjusted the valve clearances and it was still running perfectly. After 60,000 km on the BMW, I decided to switch to a dual sports bike and bought a KLR 6550 in 1994. That followed a switch to a DR650 in 1999. After putting 60,000 dirt miles on both bikes I learned my lesson: For off-road adventure Turing and for camping in the middle of nowhere type of places, lightweight travel is the way to go. My choice these days would be something like a KTM 650 or something similar in size.
Great breakdown of categories. Seat Height and other ergos might be a good criteria as well.
These are personal categories and differ from driver to driver. So you cannot tell if a seat high is generally suited or not but you can tell if a bike is heavy or not driver independent.
They are what's most important. If the the person is too small for a big bike it's more likely to end bad. It doesn't matter how much camping crap on a bike if you can't fit on it in the first place. Which is why Ian got rid of the gsa, it was just too much bike for a little guy.
Just started watching your channel a few days ago and I must say that I like it a lot. You don’t just ramble off a bunch of specs, you give details and explain “why “. I thought I wanted a KTM but I think realistically a Africa Twin would suit me much better. Thank you for the info.
I noticed a lot of people talk about horse power, but never about torque, torque is very important and it's more relevant than horse power at any speed, and specially in uphill situations
In 2002 I bought a BMW 1150 Adventurer R. I’m 5’-6” tall and at the time I weighed about 240lbs…NOT FAT…LOL… I’m was 41 years old in great shape. I’ve been riding since I’ve been 6 years old… both motocross and Trials. The bike was awesome on the road. The minute I left the pavement, it became unmanageable. The height and weight made it impossible for me to STOP on uneven or loose ground. I couldn’t plant my foot with enough traction before the bikes weight broke the plane of gravity and became too heavy. All the short rider tricks in the world won’t help at that point. Even in traffic at stop lights, it was cumbersome to manage. That said… I loved it once I was mounted and moving…
Unfortunately, after owning it for a year, I made the decision to sell it. I found that in spite of my physical strength… and I was brutally strong at that stage in my life; it became not fun to go off road. Even crushed stone roads were tiring to do any type of maneuvers which required me to stop or even dismount. Man handling a 600+ pound motorcycle all day long in loose ground conditions was taking all the fun out of it for me. I found myself using it almost exactly the same way I rode my Harley-Davidson ultra classic. On the road… always slowing down for the off road adventure entrances only to ride on by… Another thing to consider… which none of these channels ever mention… these bikes are WAY too expensive to be just dropping all the time. Even if money is not an issue for you… it’s kind of disheartening to tear up a $25k bike unnecessarily, because it’s too damn big for you. And then there’s the knee injuries to consider as well. The natural reaction to loosing your balance off-road is to attempt to recorrect by throwing that leg out for the save… bad idea with 600+ pounds moving at 20mph or so…
Now I’m 59… I feel like I’m 80 physically… lol… I’ve been pretty hard on the skeletal structure…lol… Mentally though, I feel like I’m 20! Could be an old head injury but… I’m once again thinking about my glory days and looking into a few different bikes. One thing I’ve learned is that ALL of these bike manufacturers hate short guys like me. The seat heights on these bikes have gotten ridiculously tall. 36”-38”… big shout out to all you a$$holes who design these things… thanks.
Anyways, I’ve been looking at a couple different ones pretty closely. So far, the 2022 Husqvarna 701LR is looking pretty good. There’s a lowering kit that brings the seat down to around 34-1/2”… still tall for me but… there are few options… maybe I can rework the seat a bit too… the combination of its 380 pound wet weight and the lowered suspension seems very promising too me.
My other option… and the only reason I don’t have the Husky on order… is the new Duck Desert X in the wings. It’s seat height is 34-1/2” stock. The weight is closer to 500lbs but the suspension seems to have plenty of room to lower it some… and reworking the seat would help to lower this bike down substantially. Now I’m wrestling with this… 1st year model Ducati that will cost upwards of 20k+ or a Husky that looks more like a motocross bike for about 3/4 the price after adding all the upgrades and bling… Both awesome steeds… but which one will I be happier with? I’m thinking… BOTH!
Unfortunately, my bank account and common sense mode is think… “Your insane… buy a big screen tv and a new recliner.”
thanks for the post. BMW does offer low suspension and low seats. The F750GS can be as low as 30 inches. I am doing a video on bikes for short riders soon
My Triumph Tiger 900 GT Pro is 31.88" and weighs 196 kg. I'm 5'7" and can flat foot it easily.
You should see the places I go on my TW200.
You reflect my thoughts exactly. That's why I own both a big 1200 and smaller 800 adventure bikes. Best of both worlds. Both second hand bikes.
I started with a Honda CRF 250L riding 50/50 and loved the bike, but on road at higher speeds with crosswinds and trucks really was an awful feeling and made riding a poor experience. I lucked out and scored a T7 and what a world of difference this bike has made in my confidence as a rider. I'm guessing with all my ad ons I'm probably a little over 500 pounds and I'm not finding the weight to be an issue off road other than turning around in a real tight spot. Now, if I could decide on a set of tires that are good off road and will be good on a road trip as well. Decisions decisions. Thank you for your videos, they are always the best and informative.
My intimidation factor for deciding to even buy a bike, is of financial nature. I'm somewhere near middle class when it comes to income (looking at worldwide average), I'm a photographer and I earn around 3,400 EUR a month, however I do have expenses on a house, a car and two dogs to take care of, leaving me with about 400 EUR a month to save/spend freely after everything's been bought, paid and done every month. I have saved up 22,000 EUR and I am looking for a new 2023+ ADV bike and my fear of owning and riding such a bike comes from not only variations between monthly/yearly bike expenses but also from e.g dropping the bike, damaging the frame, exhaust pipe or something expensive and then having to pay ridiculous amounts of money for it... Which for example even on my new BMW 5 series, if I were to let's say crash head on and damage/crush/bend the hood, headlights, radiator and body, all of that, including paintjob, wouldn't cost me over 2,000 EUR, where as for example on 2024 1250 GS, I've seen a guy on a forum post a receipt for two small parts on a clutch or something that he damaged when his bike fell WHILE PARKED, came up to just over 2,400 EUR for both of those small parts, which is just crazy to me... The entire clutch system on a car doesn't cost that much... That's my only fear and only reason for stopping me from buying and riding a full sized ADV bike.
Great breakdown of considerations. The weight factor is a bit misleading as the Boxer twin and KTM low-mounted fuel tanks *really* belie their weight with great balance at low speeds. (As you’ve talked about before.) Nice breakdown!
In my humble opinion, an adventure bike has to be light enough for the rider to be able to lift it straight up in case he/she drops it.
If it is too heavy, then the person limits can go, and obviously, if it is responsible, can't ride alone.
On that line, then a bike heavy than 180kg will not be an option.
It seems to me that bikes up to 650cc and about 50 hp will be ideal.
Thank you for your input.
Cheers from Tasmania
Thanks for a nice overview of the genre.
I have a 1st gen KLR 650, and a ‘21 Honda CRF Rally.
Sometimes I wish that the KLR was a bit bigger, and that the Rally was a bit smaller.
After many decades of riding, I’m thinking of getting a strictly dirt bike to hone my off-road skill set.
Happy Trails
Hello, first I would like to say that your videos are very comprehensive and informative. Very serious. I have owned both the GS and T7 and can honestly say that T7 is my unicorn. It’s light and nimble, tall and slender. It makes me a better, or at least more comfortable rider off-road, and as good on-road. GS is big, heavy it’s build to cross continents on open, paved road with lots of luggage and pillion. When I was with the GS I always felt un-utilised, here is the machine that can run for hours at 120kmh and cross the continent and here is me going for a 1h drive after work, or a 4h drive on weekend after I finished my family chores. T7 does not fill me with that waisted utilisation. 1h on a sharp uphill twisty just to see the view or plowing through farmer’s filed after rain is plenty rewarding. I still know I can cross the continent, but not just now. And last but not least, I am over 6ft tall and 200lb+ and there is not a lot of bikes that feel comfortable at my height&weight. Yamaha Tenere 700 is. Just to mention that I test rode the Aprillia Touareg 2022 and it was too small and flimsy. Too much information flowing from that TFT monitor and keeps my eyes from the road.
I liked your comparison chart. It makes a lot of sense. To make an informed choice you really need to know what kind of riding you want to do, AND the types of adventures you will realistically do. If a bike buying mistake is made I think this is where most people make it. They fall for the marketing.
I’ve decided early on that the technical riding isn’t as important to me in terms of an adventure. If I want to ride serious technical terrain I do it close to home, or truck my bike (WR250R) near where I want to go. I don’t even consider taking a big bike on technical stuff. If you decide to ride with others on technical terrain what you are really agreeing to is to help them pick up their bike all day. I fully acknowledge there are some (a very small number) people that have the physical stamina and skill to ride big bikes in technical terrain. My thought and experience is that there are a lot more people that think they do that don’t.
very well said
Great video! Really liking your content. You hit on some very important points. So many factors to consider when buying your first adv bike or upgrading as I did(klr to Africa twin). Where you live in relation to where you want to ride and if you never carry a passenger are also big factors. I loved the agility and simplicity of my klr but it wasn’t fun riding loaded on the highway to go on adv trips that required a good chunk of asphalt to get to the off-road areas. I also believe your age and fitness level matter.
good points thanks
This is basic motorcycle information, nicely presented. It occurs to me that Ian is to Adventure Motorcycling as Colin Fletcher is to Hiking! I'd like to see a similar presentation to this one about selecting a dual sport vs. an adventure bike. Thanks.
Love the footage of you feeding those dirt corners with your mid size bike ,
Great presentation mate, well constructed, precise and relevant information.
A thinking bike riders channel!!
I'm going with a crf 300 rally. Not really doing "adventure", while I might some, but mainly it's for riding from a mid sized city, out to farm land, around the fields to inspect and back. Highway, paved county roads and dirt/mud... 80-100 miles per trip. Enough fuel, high high mpg (70+) and small enough for a mid 50s age, 5'5" tall guy who has riden a few bikes over at least 40 years.
The BMW 1250GS/1300GS are of course great adventure bikes but they are like elephants to me. The mix of their massive weight, seat height, and bulky body make them a bike that is not the best choice for all riders. Yes, anyone can get enough experience to ride any bike despite their size/weight but that takes a while, most riders will never get to that level of experience and still these bikes are not practical in many real world situations. Many people buy products with emotions only, I'd suggest a stronger thought process whenever the purchase is substantial and will have strong consequences. Stay safe and keep the videos coming. Very realistic points and good advice. Thank you!
I am taking less weight over more power every time the choice comes up due to the advantages lower of weight.
Example: the CRF 300L (and rally) have roughly the same P/W ratio as a KLR. Why have the extra 120+lbs in the first place if the P/W is the same? And you can intake/exhaust/ecu that smaller bike and give it a P/W equivalent with even more bikes.
The big ADV bikes are just tourers with the option to go off road. You aren't going to be riding them like the guys in the marketing videos.
well said
Power to weight on the klr is almost non existent it's the power of a lawn mower with the weight of an Anvil! And the crf300 is 26hp / 146kg 0.18hp/kg. 42.1hp 196kg for the klr. Is 0.21 hp/kg unless I'm mistaken.
Stop telling people how good the crf is. I want one and everyone keeps buying them making it hard for me to get one😉
@Big Rock Moto: Superb 8 characteristics table! I love It and it actually also works pretty well if you add a third column with light weight bikes... Unless you don't want to include dual purposes in the same chart.
Weight low-down is a benefit, I feel. You allude to this. I used to love my old R1100GS for this, but my XB12X Ulysses had a low c of g with its fuel in the frame. The T7 looks really top-heavy.
really good comparison! I am actually thinking between Aprilia Tuareg 660 and GS1250Adv.
very informative. I like that you are down to earth with comparison criteria and actually put yourself in the average guy shoes.
keep up the good work!
greetings from Romania :)
With all the spectacular (and rough) offroading you can do in your vast and varied country, I think a smaller, nimbler bike is the way to go. Good luck with your purchase and adventures :)
I also looked at the Tuareg, but realized that the dealer network is not developed in our area, so ruled it out for myself. If the Tenere 700 brought to us in Russia, I would not even think, but alas. I don`t consider GS 1250 a priori (there are much better models in this category).
In my opinion a very interesting bike for adventure trips husqvarna 701 LR. It would be interesting to hear the opinion of owners about it, who travels long distances.
@@evgeniysir4220 Check out videos on You Tube called two wheels and a tent. He has one and has traveled all over the western us on one.
The price and weight alone would made my decision. Imagine your first offRoad experience. You throw away your bike and have to lift it up. Which one hurts more? I know the GS does not fall that way down ... but could you even lift it up from half way ...
After 3x GSA, my next one will lighter. Those monsters (GSA) are insane to lift up, especially when they are loaded with personal gear (you easily add 100 pounds / 50 kg) ! Worst to mention all the extra components you need to add to properly protect your bike ...
Aprilia Tuareg 660 is on my top list. I don't need more power, equipped with nice feature like cruise control for long distances transfers.
I’m glad you did this video. Some of the manufacturers need to watch this video bc there’s sport touring and then there’s adventure. Good video
I have NEVER seen any serious off road adventurer use a full size adventure bike to ride deep into nowhere for days. They either use light weight or at worst a mid-size adventure bike.
The lightest weight, high reliability, decent fuel efficiency bike you can get - is the best one for actual adventure riding.
Riding skills should not be underestimated. Ive been riding 500-850cc bikes and once i got a GS1200 and went off roading....i dropped that pig of a bike so much that i was tired from picking it back up each time. It's also not just the size overall but the height of these european bikes too. At shy of less than 6' tall, my heels don't touch the ground and going reverse was tough at times. 😅
All this tells me that I was very good in picking my 2017 Honda Africa Twin CRF1000L. Kinda right in the middle of it all, been enjoying it so far, and watching your videos help aim me where to work on my own riding with the bike so I can keep up with it. Great video and advice
Perfect, clear exposition..Ian and his channel is very intructive as always
With motorbikes like the Tenere 700 It's hard to find a reason for a full size adventure bike. The Tenere (or a few other in the same market category today) can do it all. Good power, ride sustained periods of time at 70mph+, good carry capacity, adequate ride comfort, off road capabilities, lower weight, etc. Plus, they are WAY more affordable.
well said
Unfortunately, they are almost impossible to find at a dealer.
As you showed no motorcycle can check all the boxes. It’s all about the rider and how he is going to use the bike. I primarily ride on roads sometimes for longer distances. The larger adventure style bikes are still lighter and more comfortable then the sport touring bikes they have been replacing. Think mid 500lbs for a GS or Versys 1000 vs mid 600lbs for an FJR and more still for an old ST1300. There’s a compromise somewhere between comfort, weight, power and intended use.
Great work again Ian
I like your “studious” approach to your channel
I still hope to own a big GSA but when I looked around, the best bang for my buck was the KTM 950/990 adventures. They can do it all and can be had for a song.
What you're saying is that peak ADV motorcycling would be to haul a TW200 on the back of your R1250GS? Got it.
I would divide the classes of ADV bikes by weight instead of engine size. Weight seems to be a more defining characteristic in the field.
I realized I truly need two motorcycles.
I bought a 2016 Africa Twin. It is amazing on the highway and dirt roads. I am on my tiptoes/balls of my feet when both feet are down (my only "complaint" with a 30" inseam). It fits more than 90% of my riding.
BUT, it is not like the 1974 Honda XL250 I bought new back then. Good off-road capable and I can basically "flat foot" both feet down. That bike did most everything I wanted to do except extended highway rides without being vibrated from the single cylinder. Likewise, this bike fit more than 90% of my riding.
Sadly, I sold the XL250 a few years afterwards. I wish I had kept it. Fortunately I found another one XL250 - it is an easy project, but will be exciting when I complete the "rideable" restoration. It is meant to be used when my Africa Twin would not be easy to negotiate the terrain.
So two different motorcycles will meet 100% of my riding needs. There is a large overlap but no one bike can do everything. Choose what is most important to you if you can have only one.
By the way, I actually have a 3rd bike. It is a bicycle - mountain/off road style. That off-road riding is well engrained in this 70 year old body.
Excellent advice at the end there! I would add that the off road skills gained in one of those courses are perishable, and the best way to get better at riding your bike is to ride your bike. Preferably with better riders, in a group, and at your skills limit or max comfort level.
That said, I ride alone for 90% of my mileage, so light weight and off road capability are my priorities. Faced with a highway, I can go slower, or pick backroads to get where I am going, but that easy single track or washed out quad trail is not going to give me options except turn around if I pick a larger bike.
YMMV, of course, but I would suggest that people are more likely to do well if they start on a bike that is too small than if they start on a bike that is too large. Less cost, less chance of injury or expensive unplanned dismount.
Great video, and subscribed!
Lastly, to categorize an ADV bike as being able to carry luggage, absolutely. Luggage AND a passenger, not so much. I would say luggage OR a passenger. So in a pinch, you can transport a rider whose bike was FUBAR back to civilization. People travelling with a passenger AND luggage are a tiny fraction of the ADV market, and for good reason.
great points thanks
Yes i agree, very few people take a passenger even on gravel roads.
You really hit the nail on the head...for those people who are only doing marketing on there product.. you have explained so well for a person like me watching videos all day long and getting totally confused..about which bike to select. You made my life easier, I appreciate your efforts best of luck. Regards
thanks
The fastest growing Adventure class is the small adventure bikes. I bought the Kawasaki Versys X300 - why - it is easy to handle and lighter than the larger offerings. Why is light important? it is what I can handle with my aging capabilities. And it is just fun, and you can modify the X300 in many different ways. Please see my channel for videos on many upgrades. Also, it is cheap. Also, it means the X300 meets your four criteria in the beginning of the video. It's just doesn't have the big power. But for me I've gotten all the go fast 130+ mph out of my system back in my youth. Enjoy what you can handle and afford. Great video. and thanks for sharing.
awesome thanks for sharing
Totally agree. The Versys is an AWESOME bike. I have a '21 310GS. Daily rider. I love it!!!
@@patricktracy7940 Fantastic (the 310GS) bike also.
Thank you for consolidating the information. California dreaming from D.C. where it is been unseasonably cold the last few weeks! Took the V-Strom for a ride yesterday as the temp had climbed to 37F, I was bundled up, but I definitely need warmer gloves!
Great summary!
Though I'd personally adjust the divider between mid and full size down slightly. The Africa twin 1000 and KTM 990 are both below 1000 yet I'd say they're full size bikes.
Furthermore mid size bikes are more commonly adapted to offroad, which is giving them benefits in the technical riding, tend to be a drawback on paved backroads. They often have 21/18" wheels compared to full size bikes having wider 19/17" wheels. Affecting tire possibilities and handling. Longer travel and potentially softer suspension further affecting on road performance. And then comes the power, which sure is its own category but still affects overall experience on paved surfaces.
A note to your mention of power to weight; It should be calculated on the bike with load, both driver and any luggage.
Say you have 50 power and 100 weight on the mid and 100 power and 200 weight on the full size. If you just consider the bikes they both have 0,5 power to weight.
However if you load both bikes with an additional 100 weight consisting of yourself and your luggage the mid will have 0,25 ratio and the full size only decreasing to 0,33.
Kind of mentioned when you talked about luggage capacity, yet many people forget to consider this when talking specs. :)
Again, great video.
Cheers!
Rode RTW a number of times. Found that mid size bike is the best. Carried what I could fit in saddlebags . Lifting bike on to boats and easier to get around city's remember weight always matter.
Nice video, thank you. I thought your breakdown was informative and along the same lines of what I am coming to learn as a new potential adventure bike purchaser. It’s a shame some folks will quibble with how you broke your categories but for the general masses this will be helpful.
Yes, the BMW 1250 is big bike, and yes the Honda CB500x straddles the light and mid weight lines, but that wasn’t the big point was it. It’s seeing the larger picture and then adjusting to your expectations and experiences. Things that work in the US won’t necessarily work in the UK or Romania and vice versa. In my opinion, your categories hit the mark. Good job!
thanks!
Another great video Ian (sp?). I've mentioned before I appreciate your "data driven" approach to evaluations, I guess because I evaluate things the same way. Coming from a 650 Strom to my AT, I gained much better suspension and off road capability at the expense of a lot of weight with the AT. I think a 1000 cc motor also makes the bike feel heavier due to gyroscopic forces from the motor. For me, I'd prefer a Japanese mid-sized ADV bike (sorry Austria, reliability/parts availability is to important to me). Unfortunately a T7 isn't really an option in Cali due to availability, at least for the mean time. A wee-Strom with a bit more/better suspension travel plus 18/21 wheel set would be a great option. Love that V-twin motor. So until the mid-sized market has more available options, I'll stick to my AT and adjust my routes to avoid more technical trails unless I'm in a proper group. Keep the great content coming and thanks!
thanks!
Although the V-Strom isnt a light mid size big. With its 220kg+ it comes near the first ATs without DSG.
It is very simple. It depends of what size of adventure you want. Bigger adventure - smaller bike. And vice versus.
I had a 1968 Victor 444 cubic inch single cylinder, that could handle anything , I came across. Your info he is very helpful . I should done more research and bought a twin Honda or Triumph !
I doe not care how much that Single cylinder Royal Enfield is touted , it’s a single
Cylinder engine , that will not only beat itself up , but will beat you up too.
Carrying Capacity. Pulling a Glamper with a kitchen and bath
Before you even start comparing the pros & cons between those mid-sized and big ADV bikes, you first might want to check your own size and leg length. For some, the result will already exclude certain bikes. Works both ways - too tall or too small...
I look to balance the lightest weight with the most reliability. The ability to carry a weekends worth of gear, and be able to maintain a true 70 mph in case I have to ride a 65 mph road or run one exit down an interstate. I am currently using a KLX300SM for this purpose. I added an adventure windscreen with center GPS mount, handguards, sargent seat, luggage rack with a rotopack mount, Wolfman luggage, ICON field pack backpack, and grip puppies. Works well, and the Supermoto tires have only gotten sketchy in true muddy situations. I might put some 70/30 tires on and ride the MABDR this summer.
I don’t do hard off-road stuff so for me who likes to do long trips full ADV is gonna be my choice
Thought about buying a cruiser or a tourer but ADV bikes are so much more versatile and can carry much more stuff in my opinion
Couldn’t agree more about your dirt bike comment. I feel that everyone that rides should spend time in the dirt. Also, mountain biking helps heaps. Great video.
Right on!
I prefer to use the label adventure touring for the big bikes because all of them are touring motorcycles that can go off road. KTM, HD, BMW, all off the 1000+ ADVs. The midsize bikes are more offroad oriented. The small displacement bikes are better suited to getting your feet wet before moving up. I have a BMW R1250GSA, I commute 50 miles per day, I ride it in an off-road park on weekends. I can ride it in more technical environments, but it's honestly a lot more fun on back roads, even horse trails and less challenging hiking trails. Like you said, these bikes do everything well enough, you have to pick the bike that best suits what you plan to do with it.
My first bike is a Vstrom 650.
And its also my first off-road experience, it definitely is intimidating off-road but i enjoy it. Though... it has made me want a Duel Sport for more technical stuff.
good idea on the dual sport
I had a klr 650 for years . BUT I NEEDED A BETTER LONG DISTANCE AT SPEED CARRYING MYSELF ,WIFE AND CAMPING GEAR. I LOVED THE BIGGER gsa but price was a issue . I chose the 850 GSA I got the comfort and power I badly wanted and saved alot allowing me to fit the bike exactly how I dreamed. Once fully loaded she is heavy up high but quickly goes away once moving.
Thanks for this review. I live in Idaho and it's windy. I found that my Dr 650 is significantly affected by cross and head winds. I blew a clutch driving into a significant headwind. My companions on bigger bikes had no issues at all. I'm upgrading to a vstrom1000 just for horse power.
I had an Honda XR 250R, in the north of the Netherlands, so windy too. Never experienced that problem. Never blew a clutch. Only 32 hp. But in a way you right, heavy bikse tend to have less problems in wind. On the other side, there is no way you can keep up with a heavy adventure bike in serious off roading with an old XR 250R. The massive weight will be a big disadvantage.
disagree on gravel. the lighter the better. heavy bikes suck on gravel. mid size wins both categories off road.
i have only owned full size. they are great, as you point out, for long touring, speed, and comfort. but off road has been kind of hairy, so much so, that I am going to go down to a mid size as my bike sometime this year. i'm sure i will miss the weight of the full size on the freeway... we'll find out.
what's the solution? two bikes. but i cant do that.
thanks for the excellent vid.
I would still appreciate a topic on small ADV, because it has some winning points in front of the other two category, and it is more beginners friendly. I should say that owning one small adv first, it is a step to gain confidence and experience at a lower risk and price, while you can still make a lot of km/miles or why not, around the world trip.
I agree Sipos. I currently have a Honda XR150 dual-purpose, an old Honda XL400V TransAlp and a BMW F800 GS. I've been on longer trips with the 150 than either of the others (having owned it for longer) Not as comfortable or nearly as fast but a lot easier and more fun in the tight stuff!
750 was considered massive until the late 90's, manufacturers keep pushing/marketing that bigger is better. I enjoy speeding 155 mph on my 1290 KTM every now and then, but most people don't need 160 horse.
I’d add drivetrain to the list. A drive shaft to me is a huge advantage over a chain. Would be one of the main reason to take a 1250 GS over the smaller siblings.
I find a chain to be a huge advantage over a shaft because I prefer middleweight aventure bikes. I cannot imagine my T7 with a shaft…
Weight is the enemy of fun and shaft drive adds about 100lb.
Try the moto guzzie. Midweight with shaft. It’s fantastic and affordable
Bought a new sym nht 300 for first motorcycle and i love it simple machine cheap maintenance doesn't burn more fuel than my car can do off-road can do highway good all-rounder and cheap too
I have a BMW f850 GS, mid-size but rides like a big bike. A person needs to ask themself what their skill level is and where they want to ride. I'm probably one of the few BMW riders who actually go off road and test their bike and skills. I know where NOT to take my bike with my skill level. Great video, as always.
Another great video. I love your channels growth and improvement over the last year. I agree with you 100%. I spent 3 years riding a CB500X before getting my Africa Twin 1100. Riding the smaller bike was great for learning, and i actually think my next ADV will be something in between in size. A T7 or a KTM 890. I don't really subscribe to taking my ADV on single track much, but love to ride them on dirt roads and gravel. I do think i want to keep a lighter dual sport in the garage for the more technical stuff.
Love your editing, and the preparation you are putting into your videos. Thanks Ian.
I ride a 1200 cc Tiger Desert - the off-road leaning one. I don't go off-road off-road - I just appreciate the ability to confidently cross a field or go down a muddy road if the need arises. I needed a bike for trips and twisties and runs to the store, but also one that can carry some luggage and maybe a pillion. That left me choosing between an adventure bike, a sport-cruiser, a cruiser bagger, or a goldwing type. I chose an adventure bike because of the riding position. My Tiger 1200 has 140 HP for sustained high cruising speed with a load, and 90 torks down low for real world fun. The Goldwing riding position is nice too, but not yet.
Do you think that it could also have some dependence on the persons size, age, physical capabilities etc. While I realise there are those of us older generations (eg. retireys) that are fully capable, most would prefer the lighter mid size bikes.
true
I jumped into the ADV space straight to a new R1250GSA from sport bikes my whole riding career. I'm also only 5'7". It has been quite the learning experience when I find myself on trail roads that turn quite rocky here in the northeast.
Throw some protection and a wind screen on a Triumph Scrambler 1200. Get the OEM side-bag and throw a dry bag over the seat. Light weight big engine ADV bike.
awesome bike
I wish the mid-weight bikes would come down a bit in both size and CCs. I think the T7 and the Touareg are right in the sweet spot, while the KTM 890 and the Ducati DesertX are really big bikes.
Good video Ian, the comparison is fair and would be a great help to someone on the fence between buying a big heavy ADV or middle weight bike.