would have been interesting to see 3 to 5 shot groups done with each to get a better idea. Back when I was shooting an Enfield, the Remington ammo was all that I could find and I never had much luck with it. The undersized bullets sure could explain it.
After I had edited the video and released , I did think I should have a 5 shot group of each ammo & rifle to have a more comprehensive comparison . I was going to make one with 3 different Carcano’s I have , because I thought I had some older .268 ammo , I realized I didn’t , so that will have to wait
Got my micrometer out and tested the three brands of ammo. I have on hand wolf performance Remington and PPU is the only 1 that was correct size at 312 the other 2 Ram was 309& Wolf was 307 will that says it all!! But the only good thing is I will have brass from the PPU & Remington and make my own loads! I’m not hunting with them but as Larry Potter would say only accurate rifles are interesting lol thanks for the video! you taught me something.
The most that video showed was difference in POI between brands. To determine whether the ammo performs as it should, you need to shoot a group with each brand. It "may" be that the Remington shot ok, but just to a different POI, and that can be remedied by zeroing. Having said that, I've measured Remington bullet diameter myself with their 174gr FMJ, and the bullets mic-ed at .3095.
@@harrynr32dn thank you for watching & your comment . After I did the video I realized that I should have done a 5 shot group with each brand . I know rifles will shoot differently with different ammo and bullet grain . Also that these are military surplus rifles and muzzle wear all make a difference . What I was trying to show was that the “ bullet test “ on each ammo was different . The PPU was at .311/.312 while the Remington was at some .308/.310 . So over all did it really make a difference or just the fact of POI for each one & have the rifle zeroed to which one you are using
You were measuring all over the place because consistency is key. Next time try measuring where the bullet meets the case, there would be more consistency at that point. You do realize that they have two different profiles.
Yes , I know how the British set their caliber standard and the U.S. set its standard . I was trying to be consistent of where I was measuring , although not precise , I wanted to show there was a different . I do appreciate your comment . I am always learning
The other day whilst loading a rather large volume of .303B brass, I got myself curious as to what would happen if I attempted to use .308 bullets in my No4. I have a partial box of Hornady #3090, a 220 gr RNSP. Using Ken Wsters' Pet Loads as a guide, I loaded up 20 rounds using IMR4350 in R-P brass w/ WW LRP. OAL length chosen was .3085 (long loaded a bit). Accuracy for my 70 y.o. non-bespectuled eyes was 2 inches @ 55yds. Sights set at 200 yds. I am guessing that long loading helped better to engage the rifling in this parallel sided bullet. More than acceptable for the pigs roaing wild in this part of Florida.
Interesting I have had trouble getting PPU 150gr soft points to group (12 -25" at 110yards) normally get around 1" groups with handloads might measure the projectiles when I pull them.
You need to pull bullet and measure bearing surface to get accurate measure. British MkVII bullet is .311. PPU uses .311. Muzzle test isn't a good test due to varying ogive. How your rifles are going to shoot depends on bore and muzzle condition. If your bore is worn shoot 312 if muzzle is worn it may not like boat tails like ppus.
Shot the smle, and the usual, but the cake was the 1895 Winchester Rifle well hell yes. 300 yd pie plates, Find the Britsh issue just too heavy, as the m1 and others arrived, remembering bores done in by cordite 303. Great video good to see.
Thank you for watching the video and your comment . At the moment I just have bolt action rifles/carbines . Except for a couple of SKS ‘s & one AK , with a recent acquisition of a AR -15 ,I don’t have any semi auto rifles , that will be anther chapter in my life to get into
@@Russ0226 when I goggled W W Super .303 British ammo , it came up with Winchester Super X a jacketed soft point either 180 grain or 215 grain bullet . It is used for hunting , it says it has notches placed around the jacket mouth to ensure uniform expansion , so hopefully that helps .
Firstly, you're not actually using a micrometer at all - you're using a digital Vernier calliper - they are not the same thing... You should really be measuring the bullets at their largest diameter, and you need to take the bullets out if the cases to do that. Bullets from different manufacturers will vary in their shape and the profile of the nose - the major diameter may well be inside the case and not necessarily the part that you can measure outside the case mouth,. The 'bullet in the muzzle test' is at best, a very rough guide.
It is about Bullet diameter and your bore diameter. what you have done here is show everyone that if the bullet doesn't fit your bore, you will not get good accuracy, I cast bullets and slug my bore's on my Enfield's for the best accuracy and I get sub M.O.A., The British .303's are a wide net to throw when it comes to bore diameter. I also cast bullets for economy and having gang molds keeps me supplied with quality stocks of ammunition as copper bullets have increased substantially over recent years. Also lower pressures with lower powder charges equal longer brass life, I get good results out to 200 yards, Hurrah for me, No.. that isn't my point, It is about bullet diameter and bore diameter fit to get the best accuracy. Peace out - Dave
@@thorsaxe5881 thank you for your insight . I do know some rifles “ like “ a certain brand or bullet weight . I know especially with my Carcano’s they are a .268 and commercial ammo is .264 . I have my rifles for myself and would like to do the best that I can with them . I have not done any reloading or casting my own bullets . The military surplus rifles I have ,as Mark Novak said they were only new once and not knowing how they were used till I acquired them . If you’re not willing to step out you will never learn . Again thank you for telling me what you do to get the best results
I hand load for 303 and Remington brass as well is undersized at the base near the rim. I consider Remington JUNK ammo. I suppose they are ussing 30/40 Crag brass and stamping it 303BRIT and sizing it to sort of right. Just plain JUNK.
stands to reason your older smle will most likley have more barrel wear than your mk 4 , anything around 1915 will have had corrosive ammo used through it, hence it not liking the Remington. i do not target shoot with my 1942 smle i only hunt, and can tell you i have used both Remingtons corelock and PPU. my own experience is that the PPU is the better round, and if i can get it is all i use now, wont buy the Remington any more
Well you know what they say not all rifles are built the same and before shooting a older rifle it should be inspected first even while purchasing a new one ! Some rifles have different size bores from .310 to .312 and if a .312 diameter bullet is shot out of a .310 bore dangerous pressures will occure and may burst a older barrel that was actually meant for led style bullets ,the barrels are marked and crown stamped for proper square inch pressures ,the lee Metford barrel is thinner and is not the as for say a jungle carbine .the Lee Metford was actually produced with a coradite and led bullet old school shit ! 😏😒
Visualize if you will, how many THOUSANDS of times a pull-through, with it's cord loaded with burnt carbon, specks of metal, dirt, etc, has been pulled out of that muzzle, with that cord running across the edge of the muzzle each time as the soldier pulled it out at an angle! How much different than that is abrasive cord? Aside from other issues mentioned by others, that is one reason jamming bullets down the muzzle isn't going to tell you much with respect to diameters. BTW, pull-through wear on the muzzle crown is a specified check during First Line maintenance done by military gun plumbers. If you're gong to test for grouping ability, you might want to start using both a for-end and rear bag.
Ok , I can accept that . Some one else commented I should have done the measurements of the bullets at the top of the casing . Help me to get better , what else should I do or not do to gain experience in using the micrometer . Thank you for your insight and help to improve myself
its impossible to get a good measurement with the bullet in the case. take one out and measure above the boatail portion.The calibers you have will work fine.Good luck@@milsurprifleguy7091
@@milsurprifleguy7091 Those Chinese vernier callipers certainly are not a definite precision measurement tool . ( they should be fine to explain what your trying to explain ) You could measure the outside of the necks in a few different places, to check for consistency of neck thickness / Concentricity. Measuring the bullet diameter has to be done with bullets as a component / pulled from the case . Cheers
@milsurprifleguy7091 no problems mate. It's easy to become the worst person in the world, when one posts on UA-cam. Measuring is a profession & and an art . Skilled machinists love to point out flaws in technique & inferior equipment.
would have been interesting to see 3 to 5 shot groups done with each to get a better idea. Back when I was shooting an Enfield, the Remington ammo was all that I could find and I never had much luck with it. The undersized bullets sure could explain it.
After I had edited the video and released , I did think I should have a 5 shot group of each ammo & rifle to have a more comprehensive comparison . I was going to make one with 3 different Carcano’s I have , because I thought I had some older .268 ammo , I realized I didn’t , so that will have to wait
Got my micrometer out and tested the three brands of ammo. I have on hand wolf performance Remington and PPU is the only 1 that was correct size at 312 the other 2 Ram was 309& Wolf was 307 will that says it all!! But the only good thing is I will have brass from the PPU & Remington and make my own loads! I’m not hunting with them but as Larry Potter would say only accurate rifles are interesting lol thanks for the video! you taught me something.
@@Russ0226 thanks for watching & I am glad it was a benefit for you
The most that video showed was difference in POI between brands. To determine whether the ammo performs as it should, you need to shoot a group with each brand.
It "may" be that the Remington shot ok, but just to a different POI, and that can be remedied by zeroing.
Having said that, I've measured Remington bullet diameter myself with their 174gr FMJ, and the bullets mic-ed at .3095.
@@harrynr32dn thank you for watching & your comment . After I did the video I realized that I should have done a 5 shot group with each brand . I know rifles will shoot differently with different ammo and bullet grain . Also that these are military surplus rifles and muzzle wear all make a difference . What I was trying to show was that the
“ bullet test “ on each ammo was different . The PPU was at .311/.312 while the Remington was at some .308/.310 . So over all did it really make a difference or just the fact of POI for each one & have the rifle zeroed to which one you are using
You were measuring all over the place because consistency is key. Next time try measuring where the bullet meets the case, there would be more consistency at that point. You do realize that they have two different profiles.
Yes , I know how the British set their caliber standard and the U.S. set its standard . I was trying to be consistent of where I was measuring , although not precise , I wanted to show there was a different . I do appreciate your comment . I am always learning
The other day whilst loading a rather large volume of .303B brass, I got myself curious as to what would happen if I attempted to use .308 bullets in my No4. I have a partial box of Hornady #3090, a 220 gr RNSP. Using Ken Wsters' Pet Loads as a guide, I loaded up 20 rounds using IMR4350 in R-P brass w/ WW LRP. OAL length chosen was .3085 (long loaded a bit). Accuracy for my 70 y.o. non-bespectuled eyes was 2 inches @ 55yds. Sights set at 200 yds. I am guessing that long loading helped better to engage the rifling in this parallel sided bullet. More than acceptable for the pigs roaing wild in this part of Florida.
@@steveh4962 if it works and you are happy with the results , then you have a option for using a different bullet diameter
Interesting I have had trouble getting PPU 150gr soft points to group (12 -25" at 110yards) normally get around 1" groups with handloads might measure the projectiles when I pull them.
You need to pull bullet and measure bearing surface to get accurate measure. British MkVII bullet is .311. PPU uses .311.
Muzzle test isn't a good test due to varying ogive. How your rifles are going to shoot depends on bore and muzzle condition. If your bore is worn shoot 312 if muzzle is worn it may not like boat tails like ppus.
Shot the smle, and the usual, but the cake was the 1895 Winchester Rifle well hell yes. 300 yd pie plates, Find the Britsh issue just too heavy, as the m1 and others arrived, remembering bores done in by cordite 303. Great video good to see.
Thank you for watching the video and your comment . At the moment I just have bolt action rifles/carbines . Except for a couple of SKS ‘s & one AK , with a recent acquisition of a AR -15 ,I don’t have any semi auto rifles , that will be anther chapter in my life to get into
I have a question what is W-W Super 303 British? I’ve got one round and don’t know where it came from.
@@Russ0226 when I goggled W W Super .303 British ammo , it came up with Winchester Super X a jacketed soft point either 180 grain or 215 grain bullet . It is used for hunting , it says it has notches placed around the jacket mouth to ensure uniform expansion , so hopefully that helps .
Firstly, you're not actually using a micrometer at all - you're using a digital Vernier calliper - they are not the same thing... You should really be measuring the bullets at their largest diameter, and you need to take the bullets out if the cases to do that. Bullets from different manufacturers will vary in their shape and the profile of the nose - the major diameter may well be inside the case and not necessarily the part that you can measure outside the case mouth,. The 'bullet in the muzzle test' is at best, a very rough guide.
Thank you I appreciate the information .
You're welcome@@milsurprifleguy7091 - we've all got to start somewhere.
It is about Bullet diameter and your bore diameter. what you have done here is show everyone that if the bullet doesn't fit your bore, you will not get good accuracy, I cast bullets and slug my bore's on my Enfield's for the best accuracy and I get sub M.O.A., The British .303's are a wide net to throw when it comes to bore diameter. I also cast bullets for economy and having gang molds keeps me supplied with quality stocks of ammunition as copper bullets have increased substantially over recent years. Also lower pressures with lower powder charges equal longer brass life, I get good results out to 200 yards, Hurrah for me, No.. that isn't my point, It is about bullet diameter and bore diameter fit to get the best accuracy. Peace out - Dave
@@thorsaxe5881 thank you for your insight . I do know some rifles “ like “ a certain brand or bullet weight . I know especially with my Carcano’s they are a .268 and commercial ammo is .264 . I have my rifles for myself and would like to do the best that I can with them . I have not done any reloading or casting my own bullets . The military surplus rifles I have ,as Mark Novak said they were only new once and not knowing how they were used till I acquired them . If you’re not willing to step out you will never learn . Again thank you for telling me what you do to get the best results
Just had a new barrel put on my old 303 ,looking forward to only useing cast bullets in it ,should last another 100 years .
I hand load for 303 and Remington brass as well is undersized at the base near the rim. I consider Remington JUNK ammo. I suppose they are ussing 30/40 Crag brass and stamping it 303BRIT and sizing it to sort of right. Just plain JUNK.
@@johnstark5324 thanks for watching the video & for your thoughts & observation .
stands to reason your older smle will most likley have more barrel wear than your mk 4 , anything around 1915 will have had corrosive ammo used through it, hence it not liking the Remington. i do not target shoot with my 1942 smle i only hunt, and can tell you i have used both Remingtons corelock and PPU. my own experience is that the PPU is the better round, and if i can get it is all i use now, wont buy the Remington any more
@@Deanne-w7n thank you for telling my your thoughts and experience with the Enfield’s & the ammo you use
It needs more research on you part . But thanks for the video
Well you know what they say not all rifles are built the same and before shooting a older rifle it should be inspected first even while purchasing a new one ! Some rifles have different size bores from .310 to .312 and if a .312 diameter bullet is shot out of a .310 bore dangerous pressures will occure and may burst a older barrel that was actually meant for led style bullets ,the barrels are marked and crown stamped for proper square inch pressures ,the lee Metford barrel is thinner and is not the as for say a jungle carbine .the Lee Metford was actually produced with a coradite and led bullet old school shit ! 😏😒
.......
Visualize if you will, how many THOUSANDS of times a pull-through, with it's cord loaded with burnt carbon, specks of metal, dirt, etc, has been pulled out of that muzzle, with that cord running across the edge of the muzzle each time as the soldier pulled it out at an angle!
How much different than that is abrasive cord?
Aside from other issues mentioned by others, that is one reason jamming bullets down the muzzle isn't going to tell you much with respect to diameters.
BTW, pull-through wear on the muzzle crown is a specified check during First Line maintenance done by military gun plumbers.
If you're gong to test for grouping ability, you might want to start using both a for-end and rear bag.
dud u have no idea what you are doing
Ok , I can accept that . Some one else commented I should have done the measurements of the bullets at the top of the casing . Help me to get better , what else should I do or not do to gain experience in using the micrometer . Thank you for your insight and help to improve myself
its impossible to get a good measurement with the bullet in the case. take one out and measure above the boatail portion.The calibers you have will work fine.Good luck@@milsurprifleguy7091
@@milsurprifleguy7091
Those Chinese vernier callipers certainly are not a definite precision measurement tool . ( they should be fine to explain what your trying to explain )
You could measure the outside of the necks in a few different places, to check for consistency of neck thickness / Concentricity.
Measuring the bullet diameter has to be done with bullets as a component / pulled from the case . Cheers
@@concernedaussie1330 thank you for watching & your explanation on what I should be doing and how .
@milsurprifleguy7091 no problems mate.
It's easy to become the worst person in the world, when one posts on UA-cam.
Measuring is a profession & and an art .
Skilled machinists love to point out flaws in technique & inferior equipment.