George, it's time to head out, brother. First video of yours I've watched and you are WAY better solo. You're a smart guy and charismatic.. And also right about 4% withdrawals
Have a feeling this is the video Dave is trying to delete since it references lower than an 8% safe withdrawal rate on the Nov 2 live stream. @GeorgeKamel we stand with you! Papa Dave can be wrong sometimes.
The problem with that honest math calculator is there is not return on that money. Its basically calculated like a savings account which seems wrong. If i had $1m im not withdrawing it from a savings, im moving to an index fund that matches the s&p so my money will continue to grow even as i withdraw.
@@crashtestdummy1972nobody is suggesting the funds not be invested... the math shows the 4% rule of thumb wouldn't work with no market returns. The rule of thumb is based on a 7% average gross return.
@@crashtestdummy1972 That is incorrect. At the bottom of the page they give you all of the assumptions used: "10,000 trial Monte Carlo simulation at each withdrawal rate. 70/30 stock/bond allocation with monthly compounding. Fat-tailed levy process for sampling equity performance. Fraction shown corresponds with median simulation result. Analysis uses default forward-looking capital market expectations programmed into the Honest Math portfolio simulator. Assumes 75% of the portfolio is subject to income taxes upon withdrawal at an effective rate of 20%."
@@crashtestdummy1972 the "Honest Math" money is invested. The thing is that some years the market is up and some years it's down. Dave's abbreviated assumptions say the market always goes up 12%. It's true it averages 11-12%, but there's years it does -10% and other years it's 20%. When you take from the account on down years, your account has a hard time recovering. Many simulations run with real historic returns show that the accounts often don't truly recover. 4% is a safe withdrawal rate for 30 years. Safe means there's a very low chance you'll be broke in 30 years, but there were still some bad years that even that low % still had the invested accounts drop to 0 within 30 years. TLDR.. The market is not a guarantee and not every year is the average year.
Thank you for speaking truth! I hope you're not going through too much at work, but you're absolutely correct on those percentages, and whatever happens, know you have fans and followers.
The thought of retirement makes me cry. My apologies to everyone who have retired and filing social security during this time after putting in all those years of work just to lose everything to a problem you weren't to blame for.it's especially difficult for people who are retired.
True, It has never been easier to understand how to build your money after retirement than it is right now with the inflation, when you may study and experience a completely variegated market passively by employing a successful portfolio-advisor. The impacts of the U.S. dollar's gain or fall on investments, in my opinion, are complex.
It's often true that people underestimate the importance of financial advisors until they feel the negative effects of emotional decision-making. I remember a few summers ago, after a tough divorce, when I needed a boost for my struggling business. I researched and found a licensed advisor who diligently helped grow my reserves despite inflation. Consequently, my reserves increased from $275k to around $750k.
this is definitely considerable! think you could suggest any professional/advisors i can get on the phone with? i'm in dire need of proper portfolio allocation
Well, there are a few out there who know what they are doing. I tried a few in the past years, but I’ve been with Melissa Terri Swayne for the last five years or so, and her returns have been pretty much amazing.
I am going to look her up right away on web, I have about $220k i want to start with, might be small but it's better than nothing though. Since the 08 crash is playing out again.
This video is great. Dave is negligent with his recommended 8% withdrawal rate in retirement. Thanks for talking some sense, George. Hoping Dave can (for once) find an ounce of humility and admit that his advice is wrong. Heck, it’s downright dangerous.
As much as Dave likes to say real estate investors 'don't factor in risk', his 8% withdrawal rate seems to also not factor in risk of market downturns. That's where the more safe 4% withdrawal rate comes in. Sure, the market may average 10% in the long run, but your retirement isn't that long. One or two big recessions during your retirement will leave you broke with an 8% withdrawal rate.
I retired at 40 just before the pandemic. I still work about 10 hours a week on average doing contract work on my own schedule, but I don't ever want to go and work directly for a company again.
I feel like that at 30 after losing my job during the pandemic. I’ve cobbled together several part time streams of income after trying to get a full time job for so long. I swear we are in a REAL recession between inflation and the job market. The stock market has nothing to do with how well most people can make ends meet, only on those living off investments (mostly retirement age and wealthy).
Most people that I know that are in to FIRE are all about the financial independence part, not about retiring. It's about getting to the point where you don't *need* to work, so you can then work on stuff you are passionate about. But yeah, if you can work on stuff you are passionate about now, then that's the best of both worlds.
That’s the key thing that the Ramsey Solutions Team & a lot of CEOs can’t figure out or refuse to believe. It’s really about being able to do what you want when you want & not having the stress about being able to pay bills & feeding yourself & your family at the same time.
Yep. Most studies I've seen suggest more than 50% of workers hate their job. So not needing to work for a living and not needing to depend on a job is great.
Completely agree here. Having options is what I want, not to stop working. Being aggressive with saving and cutting expenses while hustling to build wealth faster isn’t a bad thing. I’d love to hear how this is supposedly bad….but they kind of just get set in a mindset and don’t seem to change once they made their initial opinion
As a soon retiree, keeping my 401k on course is my top priority. I have been reading of investors making up to 250k ROI in this current crashing market, any recommendations to scale up my ROI before retirement will be highly appreciated.
The current market might give opportunities to maximize profit within the short term but to execute such a strategy, you must be a skilled practitioner or be working with one.
@@NebiheVergara Inflation is gradually going to become part of us and due to that fact, any money you keep in cash or a low-interest account declines in value each year. Investing is the only way to make your money grow. Unless you have an exceptionally high income, investing is the only way most people will have enough money to retire.
@@TimothysScotts I'm interested in investing through an analyst. It sounds like the most sensible thing to do in the market. Could you please give me a pointer about who you work with?
@@DarnellsStevenses The beauty of MARGARET MOLLI ALVEY approach is her dual focus: while aggressively pursuing profit opportunities, she's equally tenacious about shielding investors from potential pitfalls. It's a balance few can achieve.
George is 100% correct. Dave's moronic assertion that 12-4=8 therefore withdrawal 8 completely ignores sequence of returns risk. Honestly I don't even think he knows what that is based on his statements. Even IF the market returned 12% on average (it doesn't), if someone retires right at the start of a few down years, an 8% withdrawal rate will permanently crush their portfolio and they will likely run out of money. Literally anyone can see this using simple historical simulations.
Agreed! I don’t care about historical figures … i KNOW that I’ve basically gained net zero in the last 3-4 years both in my 401k and my investment accounts … luckily I’m in my 40s and still working and saving/investing … my parents are biting their nails everyday however!
20+ years in Software Engineering and IT, and not being able to work remote during C-19 like teammates, I had enough and changed careers. I took a 50% pay cut from $120k to $60k but now work from home. No more commute. No more meetings and I literally I mean ZERO. I work exactly 8 hours a day but watch too much UA-cam while working. No more Sunday night butterflies feelings about work. When 8 hours workday is over I can immediately take a nap if I want to. Financial Independence and having options is beautiful kids....I highly recommend!
I disagree with the hating the job part. Ive never felt fulfilled or excited about work. Work is a place you go to make money, that's it. If i have money, i won't work
This is the best way to approach it. Most of the people I know who view job as a means to make money and provide for themselves and the future are doing just fine. The ones who chased the "dream job" they love to do are mostly broke and struggling to get by because for most of us, what we'd love to do doesn't pay jack squat, lol.
This is how I was raised. Your job is not supposed to make you happy, it's supposed to make you *money.* Not expecting work to be this fountain of joy actually made me happier than my coworkers. I did FIRE and retired in my 40s after working somewhere for 20 years.
That's what people that keep trying to tell you work is not the problem not get. At the end of the day most people want to own their time. Even if you love your job I'm sure most people don't love the things that come with it such as long commutes, having to plan your life around your job, limited free time etc. Most of the billionaires who "work" wouldn't work for someone else even doing something they love to do because no one wants to answer to someone else if they don't have to at the end of the day.
FIRE is almost always about the FI rather than the RE. If you want to retire early, then by all means go for it. But for most they truly value not having to go to work if they dont want to. Take a break if you need it, you can always go back to work later on.
Learning about FIRE in my 20s really changed my mindset. Rather than just saving and investing the typically recommended 10-20%, FIRE taught me that it’s possible to live very lean (especially when young and single with lower expenses) to save and invest a significantly higher percentage of my income. Even if it’s just for a few years when you’re young, building an early nest egg can really speed up the math to building a sizable net worth. Whether that means retiring early or something else, that will be up to me but at least I’ll have options available to me.
I am a huge fan of George Kamel and Rachel Cruz - Smart Money Happy Hour and their individual videos. This situation with the 11/2/23 Ramsey Show tantrum by Dave is so unfortunate that he throws George under the bus, repeatedly calling him (and people like him) stupid and fearmongering, instead of finding out more about the video in question (this video) and that George was talking to FIRE investors who want to retire in their early to mid-30s and live 50-70yrs on investments. BIG DIFFERENCE than a "traditional" retiree in their 60s+. But Dave couldn't shut up enough to listen to his daughter to try to understand the context of the video in question. That is arrogance - he should apologize privately to his employees (including his daughter who was put in a very awkward situation publically) and a public apology for support of his "Ramsey Personalities" superstar George who along with Rachel is speaking to a younger generation than Dave could ever reach in his out of touch mean approach.
George is the bomb. He is by far my favorite Ramsey personality. I discovered FIRE then 5 years later discovered Ramsey pod cast (last week). Same general principles.... only Ramsey system allows for for a little more living in the today. Mr Money Moustache is still the OG in my opinion but George is a rising star on the FI stage. Thanks for covering the FIRE movement George :)
I recommend TheMoneyGuy. It's another group that offers solid advice on UA-cam and podcasts. I'm just a fan of theirs, not associated in any way. I hope you like them.
I didn't realize what I had been doing from the beginning was even part of a movement. I knew I wasn't going to be able to work many years bc I had to take care of a special needs sibling, so I just invested and got a little home. Now I'm actually ready to retire before my first baby is born so I can do the thing I really wanted to do, be a stay at home mom. It's worked out for me but I realized I'm very blessed and my husband is amazing.
George is assuming by retiring that people just stop earning an income. No. This will allow freedom to get whatever job you want working as much or little as you want so you aren’t chained to a desk like most people.
I have had type 1 diabetes since age 11. I'm now 41. Let's be realistic - I'm not living to 90. In my situation I have been planning on a age 55 retirement since I entered the workforce 19 years ago. I refuse to die at my desk, or drop dead on the Walmart floor as another UA-camr puts it. I don't even want to work part time at 55. My body is already on FIRE with side effects from this disease so I need to be on FIRE to retire at 55, or sooner.
My husband is also T1 and he doesn’t have a strong calling for work… he wants to RE and volunteer part time in the community. Whereas I’ll work til I’m dead but on things I’m passionate about as a creative person like writing and music. FIRE will allow us to enjoy life while we can together. There’s nothing wrong with that!
I live in the chicago suburban area, and i was comfortably spending less than $30k/yr while living on my own. i know that was rather low on average, but i found a hobby that was inexpensive and enjoyed doing that while making friends, hanging out. i didn't go on any vacations, but yeah, i didn't feel like i was truly missing out on anything
At best I was making $28k-39k from mid-20's thru mid-40's. Same as you, cheap house/duplex, reasonable price hobby, few vacations, but I'm good. Things change and we opened up a business, but I still live under the "$35k" mentality I've always survived under. I will have a very nice retirement.
Was surprised to see Dave lose his mind over this video. In my opinion, Dave's 8% advice is very reckless and most wisdom seems to lean closer to George. Dave has done a ton of good for people over the years, but looked like he lost his marbles in that clip to be honest. Even Rachel looked pretty uncomfortable.
He didn't lose his mind on this video. The guy that provoked Dave to lose his mind did it on purpose. He even recorded it and has his own youtube channel to show it. I am not looking him up again.
1.2 Million at 34 here. I like the FIRE movement, but it's more about the FI. I will continue working after I hit my FIRE number but it will be because I want to. This is a big difference because currently I HAVE TO work. This will lead to a more meaningful career.
You are absolutely crushing it and are far ahead of people your age! Do you own your own home yet or is the 1.2 million also including the value of your home? If you don't own a home, I would work on that next and try to get it paid off in 15 years. If you are including the value of your home, then you wouldn't have enough to retire anyway. One of the biggest issues retiring prior to age 59 1/2 is not being able to pull money from your retirement accounts unless you set up a Roth conversion ladder where each conversion needs to sit in the account for 5 full years before you can touch it without penalty.
How much do you make and are you married? (including spouse assets in that number?) If you've done that on your own, that's incredible. My wife and I are at a similar number but that's both of us combined
My original retirement plan was to retire at 62, work part-time, and save money. However, high prices for everything have severely affected my plan. I'm concerned if people who went through the 2008 financial crisis had an easier time than I am having now. The stock market is worrying me as my income has decreased, and I fear I won't have enough savings for retirement since I can't contribute as much as before.
Everyone needs a different stream of income , unfortunately having a job doesn't mean security due to the high rate of tax , one needs to move ahead their expectation, I would recommend refraining from investing in stocks for now. Instead, it would be prudent to consider retaining a portion of your assets in gold. Alternatively, seeking advice from a financial advisor could provide valuable guidance in this matter.
I'll recommend you create a diversification strategy because building a good financial-portfolio has been more complex since covid. Recently my colleague advised me to hire an advisor, surprisingly I have accrued over $210K under the guidance of my coach during this crash. She figured out Defensive strategies to protect my portfolio and make profit from this roller coaster market.
My advisor is Stacie Lynn Winson, a renowned figure in her line of work. I recommend researching her credentials further. She has many years of experience and is a valuable resource for anyone looking to navigate the financial market.
Retired at 37 from career. Wife still works but we save 100% of her income and live off dividends. Fostering kids has given us new purpose as we feel called by God to love others this way.
What does your wife do, and why wouldn’t you work an extra few years so she could retire earlier. Is her job part of the fostering process and helps keep her close to the cause.
Sometimes we like our work - like I’m very creative and want to work on creative projects whereas my husband wants to retire early and volunteer his time and enjoy life (he’s T1 diabetic). I don’t want to stop writing books and music until I die.
Between thus video, and the videos of Dave's meltdown about the %4 in retirement, I finally figured my own idealized hope for my own retirement. Thanks for all your info videos.
I’ve had $3000 of debt for the past few years… thanks to you and many others I look forward to getting out of that and saving for the first time. I’ve had about 3 credit cards, all below $300. I owe about $200 more on one and $300 more on another… I can’t imagine if they allowed me to have a higher credit limit at 18.
Well, would you look at that. The answer to the question I had last week. I love having discussions with my sister and then being able to send these to her when you clarify something we weren't sure about. Keep up the great work, George!
@@MikeyPaperexactly, I'd love my job and career better with some FU money, someone gets aggressive or a ton of projects I don't like get piled up too high and I can take time replacing them or go on a long vacation and come back
FIRE is all about FI and having the option to RE. I would retire at 34, but only because I absolutely hate working and "having" to be somewhere at a certain time 5-6 days a week. Retire early if its going to make you happy!
Yah for me I like FI as I want to work at my business and have a flexible schedule whereas my husband likes the RE and wants to volunteer in the community which he obvi wouldn’t get paid for. There’s nothing wrong with the work we want to do just that income on it is unknown. There is risk involved, so financial security bridges that gap to live your calling.
Happy for a few months until retirement gets into a routine of watching videos all day. A lot of time to fill from 34 on. Retiring early should be about running into the next productive chapter in life. Not running from working.
@stevenporter863 I was injured for a 3 month period. Out of work and paid at 100%. I had the greatest time! My kids are young and watching them play at the park, walking with them, being part of recreational activities, relaxing and napping was amazing. Some like to work, I absolutely hate every second of it. It's not that I don't appreciate my pay and benefits, I'd rather be at home and doing whatever I want, whenever I want. It's just how I function. I'll never like working and retiring early is something I strive for!
@stevenporter863 completely understand. I just keep hearing these personalities talk about "don't retire early, you have an act 2". Not everyone wants an act 2 or even act 1. People should do whatever makes them happiest!
Dave needs to PUBLICLY apologize to George, as well to his viewers who are sick of his unhinged rants and belittling speeches. If Dave can't control his temper, he needs to step down. The personalities may not be allowed to deviate from his message, but at least they have a chance at not perpetuating the gross behavior if they stop emulating him. His ego and rudeness is starting to infect Ken especially.
As someone who saves above 50% of my income, I don't really find it to be a struggle or anything. I just...live very frugally because I don't spend money on stupid stuff. Edit: I do also make a good salary so that helps
Props to you and those that can do it, but for me, there has to be balance and not enjoying anything in life now for the sake of saving every last penny doesn't seem appealing to me at all. Technically anything that brings enjoyment in life beyond necessities can easily be thrown in the "stupid stuff" category, so you have to define that cut-off somewhere.
@panzer_TZ yeah that's why I threw in my edit. I just live on my income from a decade ago and chill. And then save the raises. My goal is to reach fi at like 40 and then just donate my salary to charity for a decade.
That is how I feel also. Our salary is high and we saved and invested 50% plus of our income. So the reasoning is instead of working 40 years, we only really need to work 20 years. Now that 23 years of working has passed....hmmm....hahaha.. My Barista FIRE situation isn't too bad to be honest.
@rayzee0285 I make about 100k but I was on pace to do it way over in orange County california since i kept my rent to 550 in southern california in 2017 (I lived on cheaper than I do now) and I live in the acela corridor now. I just live on the same 1500 biweekly salary I made out of college a decade ago. My lifestyle inflation all stayed under that number.
If you’re starting late to save for retirement it’s worth it to look at some of the fire tactics to maximize your savings in the limited time you have left to catch up your retirement savings
He did remove the article that I mentioned on the call though. Dave's team called me back, and asked for the name of this video. I told them, and they said that George was just talking about FIRE, but he doesn't give an alternative to the 4% there within. I told them that he actually claims it isn't conservative enough per honest math. They just thanked me and asked to call back if I needed help with anything else.
@@hopefilledfinancial That's such a crap answer from the Ramsey team because even the part where he's talking about the 4% leaving only 0.03x of your money is based on a 30 year normal retirement timeline and not even related to fire other than 4% is not enough for 30+ years of retirement.
@@whasian2007 Exactly! I explain as much on my reaction/review of the call. But, this may be why Dave didn't have this video taken down. He may have taken the word of his team that it just talks about what FIRE is. I like this video. I really do, and I would hate to see it then down. It may note help that it is explained here in the comments, but Dave isn't reading my comments.
Good video on the FIRE movement. A few points: It was stated you pay penalties for withdrawing money early from retirement accounts. The FIRE movement uses a “Roth conversion ladder” strategy to avoid paying these penalties. Because of this strategy you need 25x your expenses across all investment accounts even pretax….not post tax like stated in the video.
Exactly! I reacted to a clip where Dave, with George, were discussing how financial lemmings say 4% is safe but 5% is crippling. Dave called that BS and went on with his 8% to 10% numbers and made fun of the advisors who roll with conservative SWRs. IN THIS VIDEO, the 5% SWR looks super risky compared to 4%. That is the exact point I make in my show, and I am excited to see Dave change his mind soon.
I also noticed this, Dave is on record saying 8-10% is fine for growth mutual funds. I agree with many Ramsey principles in general so I'm close to diet Dave or Dave light, but they always present their own solutions with 10-12% average returns and 8-10% withdrawal, then use 4% for any other plan they do not agree with which changes numbers drastically.
@@36goingon90 I bet, we can get Dave to change his mind with love, logic, and evidence. It is my current mission to see all of Ramsey Solutions become consistent on this front.
8-12% is on return, not safe withdrawal. They seem similar but are quite different. Especially when retiring young there is an increased volatility/risk. Which means the two numbers will be even more different than other normal retirement circumstances.
I started my personal finance journey by learning about FIRE. I have no intentions of retiring early (i'm turning 36 and planning on working until 60). I used the concepts I learned in FIRE to plan my retirement at 60. I got the stuff that I think will work for me and my husband, and skipped those that just don't apply to us and our goals.
I agree with you in the video Kamel. So everyone’s real question is where is Ramsey’s 8% withdraw on that chart and how long would it mathematically (aka safely) last.
I don’t follow FIRE or Ramsey, but what Ramsey always gets wrong is assuming ppl who choose FIRE will just stop working. That’s not true. Bottom line is Ramsey crew don’t condone “non traditional “ ways of living/working. That’s it.
They can't see/think outside the box, but they also have to follow the company line/rules since that's their schtick. I'm sure some of the personalities may have differing views from what the company spouts, but they can't say it out loud and have to condemn anything that doesn't line up with their company messaging.
I remember Dave’s take on fire and he was saying how everyone was gonna move to an island and never see your family again lol where does fire say you’ll never see your family again or that you’ll move to some island
Out of interest, if you don’t stop working, then doesn’t that counteract the “retire early” part? Or is the goal to be able to do what you want in terms of work?
@@bens196the "retire" means you do what you want without worrying about your jobs income. So you could work part-time at a low stress job and pursue your passions or have a low earning business, or move to your dream location and volunteer or something. Basically you live on your terms and don't move or land work because you NEED to, you just do it cause you WANT to
The fact that this video is still up after yesterdays outburst tells me Dave realized the caller had the wrong context. Hopefully Dave will issue an apology for his brash comments yesterday.
Am 58 retiring next year but the thought of retirement gives me weakness. My apologies to everyone who have retired and filing social security during this time after putting in all those years of work just to lose everything to a problem you never imagined to happen. It’s so difficult for people who are retired and have no savings or loved ones to fall back on.
True, It has never been easier to understand how to build your money after retirement than it is right now with the inflation, when you may study and experience a completely variegated market passively by employing a successful portfolio-advisor. The impacts of the U.S. dollar's gain or fall on investments, in my opinion, are complex.
Even if you’re not skilled, it is still possible to hire one. I was a project manager and my personal portfolio of approximately $850k of my retirement pension took a big hit in April due to the crash. I quickly got in touch with a financial-planner that devised a defensive strategy to protect my funds and make profit from my portfolio this red season. I’ve made over $250k since then.
Monica Amanda McClure ’is the advisor that guides me. She’s a verified coach and she helped me see that returns can be made in both bull and bear markets. She covers things like investing, insurance, making sure retirement is well funded and looking at ways to have a volatility buffer for investment risk, look - her up
solid video george. but, you dont have to only use the bridge account. you can also take out the contributions from your roth ira. you can do this tax and penalty free, even if you are not 59 & a half. you do have the penalty if you withdraw the earnings though. the honest math chart is using a 70/30 stock to bond allocation, which is not typical of the fire community. most fire disciples use s&p500 or total market index funds where the 4% rule still stands up. also, many of them use rental cash flow to supplement their income.
For me, it’s about the FI and not necessarily the RE. I like being able to just walk out of a job if it is no longer where I want to be (in fact, I did this once, and it was even better than I thought it would be).
FINALLY! A Ramsey Solutions video that recognizes conservative SWRs exist. I think there are better studies than the one at honestmath (I think my study is much more usable as one example), but this is progress! Now, George, please tell me you are taking this SWR information to Dave to recant his 8 to 10% SWR advice that he gives to traditional retirees on the main radio show. I don't care which study you cite as evidence, but I have been praying for Dave to change his position on SWRs. I think this is a great start! Keep It Up!
I too thought this was a bit ironic. Just a week ago dave told someone they would be able to live perpetually on the 8-12% average return their portfolio netted without ever depleting the principal
5:52 For 3%, why is the portfolio balance higher than the starting amount for short retirements, but lower for longer ones? If we assume low market returns, the average balance should only go down over time and vice versa. I think a more useful number would be percent chance of draining the entire portfolio before you die. If you do tens of thousands of simulated trials with 4% withdrawal, I'd bet the vast majority end up with portfolio balance much higher than the starting amount. The chart is for an era of lower projected returns (whatever that means exactly). It's good to be conservative, but worth noting that this isn't an overall average for expected returns.
My good friend retired at the age of 38; which was 35 years ago. Since then, he lives 6 months in Chicago and 6 months in Hawaii. How did he do it? Two reasons: 1) he is by far the cheapest person I have ever met. 2) He invested more than 50% of his working salary in commercial real estate. So, early retirement is possible, but you have to have a plan and discipline.
Wow. So glad I watched the entire video! Context is key. George was in NO WAY endorsing the FIRE plan or the 4% rule. He was just stating practically what you would have to do for the plan to work; he then talks about why he doesn't like the FIRE plan itself. He's still on brand with Dave; the caller brought up the clip out of context--hence Dave's reaction--lol
Agreed. Glad to see someone else actually watched the video to compare. Daves caller from Nov 2nd apparently did take this 3% draw out of context and missed George's whole point. Which was to prove how this fire movement has its own flaws and is unrealistic. Dave went a little overboard but George is in total agreement with Dave in the end.
I am currently in my 50s and This is no time to taper retirement savings. I want to max out my retirement contributions and I also have another $120k in a savings account that i want to invest in a non-retirement account. Where would you invest this as of now?
Look up dividend aristocrats. Pick six to ten from that list. Those companies have a track record of 25+ years of paying dividends. Also, its advisable you work with a financial advisor to help set up a well-structured portfolio.
I agree. Based on personal experience working with a financįal advlsor, I currently have $800k in a well-diversified portfolìo that has experienced exponential growth from when i started. It's not only about having money to invest in stõcks, but you also need to be knowledgeable, persistent, and have strong hands to back it up.
Your advisor must be excellent. How can I get in touch with them? I'm worried about the decline in my retirement portfolio and could really use some guidance.
I'm cautious about giving specific recommendations as everyone's situation varies. Consider independent financial advisors like "Melissa Elise Robinson" I've worked with her for 9 years and highly recommend her. Check if she meets your criteria.
Thanks for sharing. I curiously searched for her full name and her website popped up immediately. I looked through her credentials and did my due diligence before contacting her.
It’s funny I was listening to Dave Ramsey the other day and someone called in and told Dave that George said you should take 3 percent out of your retirement to be safe he got so mad said it STUPID and he is going to remove this video immediately. Dave says you can take 8 percent in retirement which I find insane I would agree with the 4 percent rule. If you do Dave’s rule of 8 percent there’s a good chance you will run out of money if the market goes negative a few years in row.
…oh child I heard dat! I recently got a whiff on the FIRE concept from a few friends who thought I did it for I’ve been work free since I was 35 (54 now). I am just lucky for I had a Father who taught me finances/stock and Mother who still bugs me about budget and her crazy Mother who I constantly pestered and left me a hefty chunk. But here is the but, but I had worked a lot. At 19 together with an Aunt got a laundromat, sold it after 5 years (great profits) a few other businesses while employed by United Airlines as Cabin Crew which most my pay I did invest in houses, a strip mall, a few start ups in the Silicon Valley where I live and marrying well. Wish I was still able to be Cabin Crew for I loved every minute of it, too bad I got injured badly in one of the major supermarkets, they paid big time but I paid more with my health and corny as it sounds Health is Wealth. Take care of it
@@GeorgeKamel I'm just rattling your chain. 😆 I know what you meant, I rewatched it, that call today was completely misunderstood by everybody. The caller today took what you said out of context and Dave didn't really get all the info. The chat just went wild though, everyone had a good time, but I think folks all knew you were going to be all right. Take care!
@@GeorgeKamel The caller yesterday failed to listen to what you were talking about in this video and asked a question out of context. Hopefully, everything got cleared up.
I agree with you in the video Kamel. So everyone’s real question is where is Ramsey’s 8% withdraw on that chart and how long would it mathematically (aka safely) last.
@trinitymoto Did you look at the slide...even at just 5% all those time frames they ran out of money...what do you think 8% would do. Easily someone could retire at 60 and live to 90s.
It is rather curious that the Ramsey-brand of personal financial advice is aggressive in terms of retiring debt, including mortgage (advising blanket 15 year mortgage terms is a distinguishing feature of their advice), but struggle with the idea that their more financially-literate audience would want to hasten their departure from under the thumb of their employers? Why the suggestion not to pursue FIRE, to "just find a job you like"? Though we could agree that it is preferable to do something you like, the framing makes it seem pathological to the individual (greed? selfishness? no hobbies or relationships? Etc.) rather than a response to conditions (including, but not limited to: decades of stagnating wages, the difference in tax treatment of wages vs capital, potential replacement by automation).
Yah he says extremes aren’t good but the Ramsey plan is more extreme than other personal finance advice. Especially the only have $1000 while paying off debt. From experience, we’ve had emergencies that are more than $1000 so this is very risky if you’re avoiding more debt. But Ramsey isn’t a big fan of individual empowerment when that means a radical change in how people treat each other - corporate America shifting. Consider also Ramsey is very against bankruptcy for most people. I just completed bankruptcy for 2 credit cards and an auto loan and it’s one of the best decisions we’ve made! We bought a house last year which is less than our previous rent which is also a no no on the Dave plan while getting out of debt, but that’s also one of the best decisions we’ve ever made! Personal finance is just that… personal. He chose arbitrary rules within Biblical principles that the Bible (in its wisdom passages) is not so strict on. It’s very extreme. The getting off of debt intensity is understandable when you’re paying off… but life is also a balance of things.
They have always seen FI as competition and was actually kicking people off their Facebook pages for talking about specifically ChooseFI.... they want to make content off its back, but they truly do hate the movement even though the baby steps are a great stepping stone for the FI movement. Also, most today believe in FI, and not so heavy on the RE... but the Ramsey team will always call it FIRE instead of FI, because FI takes away their biggest gripe.... Retiring early..
Does anyone else think it's weird that George has to put the Ramsey brand at the beginning of the video and in the watermark of the video? I'm assuming that Ramsey Solutions collects a portion of this channel's revenue stream, which is kind of limiting George in ever developing his own brand. I wonder how long that contract is that George has to split revenue with Ramsey Solutions. I'm assuming that Ramsey Solutions helps with George's production and all that but I guess this whole fiasco is making me question what the terms of the relationship is between this channel and Ramsey Solutions
Cant help and notice the honnest math page slide shows just 5% withdrawl will kill your retirement in 20 years...but 8% per Dave is fine 😂 so you really need to withdraw around 2.5% to be safe with Fire and 3.5% if retiring around 55. To really do effectively FIRE you gotta move to a cheaper country than the US.
The part of fire I can’t get with is DIY and biking everywhere, even with kids. Mr Money Mustache isn’t for me in that department. I also am not giving up that much of my life today to retire that much sooner. I thankfully love my job 🥳
50 is my fire goal, very reasonable for more folks with a gov pension at 60, and SS. I am ahead of schedule with a 40% savings rate. I would retire earlier if I could, but not willing to lean fire.
52 is my goal. My aunt and uncle retired to a beach house around that point and said it was the best decision they ever made. They got nothing jobs at the beach and just chilled. They encouraged me to aim for thst too. You're still young enough to enjoy life without needing to overly sacrifice.
@@markg999 Inflation comes in waves. Over the past 5 years, the S&P500 is up 8.2% per year adjusted for inflation, so it shouldn't have killed anyone's retirement plans yet. Feel free to predict doom on the future, but I won't be doing that.
I wanna reach FIRE so when I have to wake up super early to go to work one day I can actually mean it when I say, "maybe I don't really need this job!!"
the topic is explained very well! My goal is to work less over the years. It would be perfect if at 50 I only had to work 4 days a week, at 55 3 days, at 60 2 days and finally at 65 I could stop. I'm currently 34 years old and am investing again in my education so that I can have more free time sooner. But first let’s see what the future brings. Just because I think today I could later live on the money I earn in 2 working days doesn't mean that it will actually be the case. and maybe I don't want to work less at that age! I just want the freedom :)
It's crazy how we have to come up with a number based on how many years we plan to live whereas people with pensions just stop getting money when they die... What do people do when have less money than years? And what if you have no children or no family to help? Our society is in for a really bad time...
I did retire early from my original profession but picked up another life long one. I was a minister but due to conflicts with the church I decided to leave. Now with that I also felt I wasn't actually helping people either so when my decision to leave the ministry was announced I was surprised as the church wanted to keep me listed as the common title for retired pastors as pastor emeritus. I took the stage and explained to the congregation "when the team selected me to serve as your minister of Christian education they unintentionally gave me the exact same job description as senior pastor but in my capacity I felt this was not appropriate so many times I could have done things without input from the senior pastors I either referred the members to them or took the concerns or ideas to the pastors." getting back to the point leaving has sent me into working for government agencies handling entitlements.
Hi George, yet more great content, thanks. I've been through all my expenses, bills are £403.4 per month, not including food, so I reckon 12 months will be £12,000 minimum, and 25 times that gives me £300,00. Cool.
Glad this video is still up! Hope Dave apologizes publicly if he hasn’t already.
Everybody should be allowed to have his own opinion 😂 Even Dave
@@georgelien Well then he should present it as an opinion, not as fact!
@@BrianCassidy-hb9pg There are no facts when it comes to early retirement!
George, it's time to head out, brother. First video of yours I've watched and you are WAY better solo. You're a smart guy and charismatic.. And also right about 4% withdrawals
I don't think Dave allows his personalities to have a career if they leave...I meam, we've never heard from Hogan again.
@@Amanda-ws5ty that's a whole separate issue with different circumstances
Not right at all. If you withdrawal 4%. It will never run out if you are getting 8-12% every year
That's it. Its official. George is my favorite Ramsey Personality.
🥹🥹🥹
Mine too, but not because of this video, although it is a good one.
There was a question?
Sorry to see Dave Ramsey throw you under the bus. You're RIGHT, Dave is WRONG!!! 8% withdraw rate is RIDICULOUS!!
After seeing what Dave did in response to this video it’s no wonder he can’t keep personalities around. I hope he apologized to you, George.
He should also apologize to his audience.
Dave talks about apologizing to 2 people in his book Entreleadership@@MikeBean
I would have loved to be a fly on the wall for that conversation!
What did Dave do?
@@annetraut8247did you get an update ?
Have a feeling this is the video Dave is trying to delete since it references lower than an 8% safe withdrawal rate on the Nov 2 live stream. @GeorgeKamel we stand with you! Papa Dave can be wrong sometimes.
The problem with that honest math calculator is there is not return on that money. Its basically calculated like a savings account which seems wrong. If i had $1m im not withdrawing it from a savings, im moving to an index fund that matches the s&p so my money will continue to grow even as i withdraw.
@@crashtestdummy1972nobody is suggesting the funds not be invested... the math shows the 4% rule of thumb wouldn't work with no market returns. The rule of thumb is based on a 7% average gross return.
@@crashtestdummy1972 That is incorrect.
At the bottom of the page they give you all of the assumptions used:
"10,000 trial Monte Carlo simulation at each withdrawal rate. 70/30 stock/bond allocation with monthly compounding. Fat-tailed levy process for sampling equity performance. Fraction shown corresponds with median simulation result. Analysis uses default forward-looking capital market expectations programmed into the Honest Math portfolio simulator. Assumes 75% of the portfolio is subject to income taxes upon withdrawal at an effective rate of 20%."
@@crashtestdummy1972
It does take into account returns. It’s the return volatility that makes for lower withdrawals.
@@crashtestdummy1972 the "Honest Math" money is invested. The thing is that some years the market is up and some years it's down. Dave's abbreviated assumptions say the market always goes up 12%. It's true it averages 11-12%, but there's years it does -10% and other years it's 20%. When you take from the account on down years, your account has a hard time recovering. Many simulations run with real historic returns show that the accounts often don't truly recover. 4% is a safe withdrawal rate for 30 years. Safe means there's a very low chance you'll be broke in 30 years, but there were still some bad years that even that low % still had the invested accounts drop to 0 within 30 years.
TLDR..
The market is not a guarantee and not every year is the average year.
Thank you for speaking truth! I hope you're not going through too much at work, but you're absolutely correct on those percentages, and whatever happens, know you have fans and followers.
The thought of retirement makes me cry. My apologies to everyone who have retired and filing social security during this time after putting in all those years of work just to lose everything to a problem you weren't to blame for.it's especially difficult for people who are retired.
True, It has never been easier to understand how to build your money after retirement than it is right now with the inflation, when you may study and experience a completely variegated market passively by employing a successful portfolio-advisor. The impacts of the U.S. dollar's gain or fall on investments, in my opinion, are complex.
It's often true that people underestimate the importance of financial advisors until they feel the negative effects of emotional decision-making. I remember a few summers ago, after a tough divorce, when I needed a boost for my struggling business. I researched and found a licensed advisor who diligently helped grow my reserves despite inflation. Consequently, my reserves increased from $275k to around $750k.
this is definitely considerable! think you could suggest any professional/advisors i can get on the phone with? i'm in dire need of proper portfolio allocation
Well, there are a few out there who know what they are doing. I tried a few in the past years, but I’ve been with Melissa Terri Swayne for the last five years or so, and her returns have been pretty much amazing.
I am going to look her up right away on web, I have about $220k i want to start with, might be small but it's better than nothing though. Since the 08 crash is playing out again.
This video is great. Dave is negligent with his recommended 8% withdrawal rate in retirement.
Thanks for talking some sense, George. Hoping Dave can (for once) find an ounce of humility and admit that his advice is wrong. Heck, it’s downright dangerous.
As much as Dave likes to say real estate investors 'don't factor in risk', his 8% withdrawal rate seems to also not factor in risk of market downturns. That's where the more safe 4% withdrawal rate comes in. Sure, the market may average 10% in the long run, but your retirement isn't that long. One or two big recessions during your retirement will leave you broke with an 8% withdrawal rate.
I retired at 40 just before the pandemic. I still work about 10 hours a week on average doing contract work on my own schedule, but I don't ever want to go and work directly for a company again.
I feel like that at 30 after losing my job during the pandemic. I’ve cobbled together several part time streams of income after trying to get a full time job for so long. I swear we are in a REAL recession between inflation and the job market. The stock market has nothing to do with how well most people can make ends meet, only on those living off investments (mostly retirement age and wealthy).
Most people that I know that are in to FIRE are all about the financial independence part, not about retiring. It's about getting to the point where you don't *need* to work, so you can then work on stuff you are passionate about. But yeah, if you can work on stuff you are passionate about now, then that's the best of both worlds.
That’s the key thing that the Ramsey Solutions Team & a lot of CEOs can’t figure out or refuse to believe. It’s really about being able to do what you want when you want & not having the stress about being able to pay bills & feeding yourself & your family at the same time.
That's exactly why I am pursuing FIRE. I want options
I agree 100%. I have no interest in not working. I just want to be able to coast fire.
Yep. Most studies I've seen suggest more than 50% of workers hate their job. So not needing to work for a living and not needing to depend on a job is great.
Completely agree here. Having options is what I want, not to stop working.
Being aggressive with saving and cutting expenses while hustling to build wealth faster isn’t a bad thing.
I’d love to hear how this is supposedly bad….but they kind of just get set in a mindset and don’t seem to change once they made their initial opinion
As a soon retiree, keeping my 401k on course is my top priority. I have been reading of investors making up to 250k ROI in this current crashing market, any recommendations to scale up my ROI before retirement will be highly appreciated.
The current market might give opportunities to maximize profit within the short term but to execute such a strategy, you must be a skilled practitioner or be working with one.
@@NebiheVergara Inflation is gradually going to become part of us and due to that fact, any money you keep in cash or a low-interest account declines in value each year. Investing is the only way to make your money grow. Unless you have an exceptionally high income, investing is the only way most people will have enough money to retire.
@@TimothysScotts I'm interested in investing through an analyst. It sounds like the most sensible thing to do in the market. Could you please give me a pointer about who you work with?
@@DarnellsStevenses The beauty of MARGARET MOLLI ALVEY approach is her dual focus: while aggressively pursuing profit opportunities, she's equally tenacious about shielding investors from potential pitfalls. It's a balance few can achieve.
@@TimothysScotts Thank you for the lead. I searched for her, and I have sent her an email. I hope she gets back to me soon.
George is 100% correct. Dave's moronic assertion that 12-4=8 therefore withdrawal 8 completely ignores sequence of returns risk. Honestly I don't even think he knows what that is based on his statements. Even IF the market returned 12% on average (it doesn't), if someone retires right at the start of a few down years, an 8% withdrawal rate will permanently crush their portfolio and they will likely run out of money. Literally anyone can see this using simple historical simulations.
Agreed! I don’t care about historical figures … i KNOW that I’ve basically gained net zero in the last 3-4 years both in my 401k and my investment accounts … luckily I’m in my 40s and still working and saving/investing … my parents are biting their nails everyday however!
20+ years in Software Engineering and IT, and not being able to work remote during C-19 like teammates, I had enough and changed careers. I took a 50% pay cut from $120k to $60k but now work from home. No more commute. No more meetings and I literally I mean ZERO. I work exactly 8 hours a day but watch too much UA-cam while working. No more Sunday night butterflies feelings about work. When 8 hours workday is over I can immediately take a nap if I want to. Financial Independence and having options is beautiful kids....I highly recommend!
I 💯 % agree it is beautiful being financially Independent!🎉🎉😊. More folks need to go for it!
I disagree with the hating the job part. Ive never felt fulfilled or excited about work. Work is a place you go to make money, that's it. If i have money, i won't work
This is the best way to approach it. Most of the people I know who view job as a means to make money and provide for themselves and the future are doing just fine. The ones who chased the "dream job" they love to do are mostly broke and struggling to get by because for most of us, what we'd love to do doesn't pay jack squat, lol.
So you do nothing of value until you start starving that’s really smart
This is how I was raised. Your job is not supposed to make you happy, it's supposed to make you *money.* Not expecting work to be this fountain of joy actually made me happier than my coworkers. I did FIRE and retired in my 40s after working somewhere for 20 years.
I'm kinda the same. But you do have to find something to fill the void once you quit working. That is essential.
That's what people that keep trying to tell you work is not the problem not get. At the end of the day most people want to own their time. Even if you love your job I'm sure most people don't love the things that come with it such as long commutes, having to plan your life around your job, limited free time etc. Most of the billionaires who "work" wouldn't work for someone else even doing something they love to do because no one wants to answer to someone else if they don't have to at the end of the day.
FIRE is almost always about the FI rather than the RE. If you want to retire early, then by all means go for it. But for most they truly value not having to go to work if they dont want to. Take a break if you need it, you can always go back to work later on.
Completely agree ❤
Learning about FIRE in my 20s really changed my mindset. Rather than just saving and investing the typically recommended 10-20%, FIRE taught me that it’s possible to live very lean (especially when young and single with lower expenses) to save and invest a significantly higher percentage of my income. Even if it’s just for a few years when you’re young, building an early nest egg can really speed up the math to building a sizable net worth. Whether that means retiring early or something else, that will be up to me but at least I’ll have options available to me.
I am a huge fan of George Kamel and Rachel Cruz - Smart Money Happy Hour and their individual videos. This situation with the 11/2/23 Ramsey Show tantrum by Dave is so unfortunate that he throws George under the bus, repeatedly calling him (and people like him) stupid and fearmongering, instead of finding out more about the video in question (this video) and that George was talking to FIRE investors who want to retire in their early to mid-30s and live 50-70yrs on investments. BIG DIFFERENCE than a "traditional" retiree in their 60s+. But Dave couldn't shut up enough to listen to his daughter to try to understand the context of the video in question. That is arrogance - he should apologize privately to his employees (including his daughter who was put in a very awkward situation publically) and a public apology for support of his "Ramsey Personalities" superstar George who along with Rachel is speaking to a younger generation than Dave could ever reach in his out of touch mean approach.
George is the bomb. He is by far my favorite Ramsey personality. I discovered FIRE then 5 years later discovered Ramsey pod cast (last week). Same general principles.... only Ramsey system allows for for a little more living in the today. Mr Money Moustache is still the OG in my opinion but George is a rising star on the FI stage. Thanks for covering the FIRE movement George :)
I recommend TheMoneyGuy. It's another group that offers solid advice on UA-cam and podcasts. I'm just a fan of theirs, not associated in any way. I hope you like them.
Hope you and Dave hashed things out
Dave’s rant is getting this video some good publicity & views. I’m sure it’ll stay up 😄
I didn't realize what I had been doing from the beginning was even part of a movement. I knew I wasn't going to be able to work many years bc I had to take care of a special needs sibling, so I just invested and got a little home. Now I'm actually ready to retire before my first baby is born so I can do the thing I really wanted to do, be a stay at home mom. It's worked out for me but I realized I'm very blessed and my husband is amazing.
I'm happy for you.
George is assuming by retiring that people just stop earning an income. No. This will allow freedom to get whatever job you want working as much or little as you want so you aren’t chained to a desk like most people.
Glad this video is still up! Hope it stays that way, it’s good info
Ditto
I have had type 1 diabetes since age 11. I'm now 41. Let's be realistic - I'm not living to 90. In my situation I have been planning on a age 55 retirement since I entered the workforce 19 years ago. I refuse to die at my desk, or drop dead on the Walmart floor as another UA-camr puts it. I don't even want to work part time at 55. My body is already on FIRE with side effects from this disease so I need to be on FIRE to retire at 55, or sooner.
Caleb's die on the Walmart floor analogy is perfect to get it through peoples heads how important saving is.
My husband is also T1 and he doesn’t have a strong calling for work… he wants to RE and volunteer part time in the community. Whereas I’ll work til I’m dead but on things I’m passionate about as a creative person like writing and music. FIRE will allow us to enjoy life while we can together. There’s nothing wrong with that!
I live in the chicago suburban area, and i was comfortably spending less than $30k/yr while living on my own. i know that was rather low on average, but i found a hobby that was inexpensive and enjoyed doing that while making friends, hanging out. i didn't go on any vacations, but yeah, i didn't feel like i was truly missing out on anything
At best I was making $28k-39k from mid-20's thru mid-40's. Same as you, cheap house/duplex, reasonable price hobby, few vacations, but I'm good. Things change and we opened up a business, but I still live under the "$35k" mentality I've always survived under. I will have a very nice retirement.
Was surprised to see Dave lose his mind over this video. In my opinion, Dave's 8% advice is very reckless and most wisdom seems to lean closer to George. Dave has done a ton of good for people over the years, but looked like he lost his marbles in that clip to be honest. Even Rachel looked pretty uncomfortable.
He didn't lose his mind on this video. The guy that provoked Dave to lose his mind did it on purpose. He even recorded it and has his own youtube channel to show it. I am not looking him up again.
1.2 Million at 34 here. I like the FIRE movement, but it's more about the FI. I will continue working after I hit my FIRE number but it will be because I want to. This is a big difference because currently I HAVE TO work. This will lead to a more meaningful career.
Yeah. I just don't want a boss to be able to fire me and screw up my future.
$1.2M saved?
@@IrisP989 saved and invested
You are absolutely crushing it and are far ahead of people your age! Do you own your own home yet or is the 1.2 million also including the value of your home? If you don't own a home, I would work on that next and try to get it paid off in 15 years. If you are including the value of your home, then you wouldn't have enough to retire anyway. One of the biggest issues retiring prior to age 59 1/2 is not being able to pull money from your retirement accounts unless you set up a Roth conversion ladder where each conversion needs to sit in the account for 5 full years before you can touch it without penalty.
How much do you make and are you married? (including spouse assets in that number?) If you've done that on your own, that's incredible. My wife and I are at a similar number but that's both of us combined
My original retirement plan was to retire at 62, work part-time, and save money. However, high prices for everything have severely affected my plan. I'm concerned if people who went through the 2008 financial crisis had an easier time than I am having now. The stock market is worrying me as my income has decreased, and I fear I won't have enough savings for retirement since I can't contribute as much as before.
Everyone needs a different stream of income , unfortunately having a job doesn't mean security due to the high rate of tax , one needs to move ahead their expectation, I would recommend refraining from investing in stocks for now. Instead, it would be prudent to consider retaining a portion of your assets in gold. Alternatively, seeking advice from a financial advisor could provide valuable guidance in this matter.
I'll recommend you create a diversification strategy because building a good financial-portfolio has been more complex since covid. Recently my colleague advised me to hire an advisor, surprisingly I have accrued over $210K under the guidance of my coach during this crash. She figured out Defensive strategies to protect my portfolio and make profit from this roller coaster market.
Mind if I ask you to recommend this particular coach you using their service?
My advisor is Stacie Lynn Winson, a renowned figure in her line of work. I recommend researching her credentials further. She has many years of experience and is a valuable resource for anyone looking to navigate the financial market.
I located her, sent her an email, and scheduled a call; hopefully, she will reply because I want to start the new year off financially strong.
I just like the idea of living on less than you make, saving, and investing as much as you can.
Retired at 37 from career. Wife still works but we save 100% of her income and live off dividends. Fostering kids has given us new purpose as we feel called by God to love others this way.
What does your wife do, and why wouldn’t you work an extra few years so she could retire earlier. Is her job part of the fostering process and helps keep her close to the cause.
@@chaselesser3191 he said they save 100% of her income so she seems to be working because she wants to.
What was your current job before retiring and how much did you retire with?
Sometimes we like our work - like I’m very creative and want to work on creative projects whereas my husband wants to retire early and volunteer his time and enjoy life (he’s T1 diabetic). I don’t want to stop writing books and music until I die.
Op, you are awesome. Fostering kids I would do but my wife will refused
Between thus video, and the videos of Dave's meltdown about the %4 in retirement, I finally figured my own idealized hope for my own retirement. Thanks for all your info videos.
I’ve had $3000 of debt for the past few years… thanks to you and many others I look forward to getting out of that and saving for the first time.
I’ve had about 3 credit cards, all below $300. I owe about $200 more on one and $300 more on another… I can’t imagine if they allowed me to have a higher credit limit at 18.
Thanks for the math lesson George; I hope you get a chance to teach this concept to Dave, as he really needs to learn it.
Well, would you look at that. The answer to the question I had last week. I love having discussions with my sister and then being able to send these to her when you clarify something we weren't sure about.
Keep up the great work, George!
It’s more about freeing yourself from needing a job to survive. It all becomes less stressful when you know you don’t really need a job anymore.
As George said ^^ YOU GO WITH YOU
You need a new career environment or a new career path, not the FIRE movement
@@alexisballard1459naw. Sometimes just NOT needing to work is what works best.
@@MikeyPaperexactly, I'd love my job and career better with some FU money, someone gets aggressive or a ton of projects I don't like get piled up too high and I can take time replacing them or go on a long vacation and come back
Don’t let your video editor retire early.
FIRE is all about FI and having the option to RE. I would retire at 34, but only because I absolutely hate working and "having" to be somewhere at a certain time 5-6 days a week. Retire early if its going to make you happy!
Yah for me I like FI as I want to work at my business and have a flexible schedule whereas my husband likes the RE and wants to volunteer in the community which he obvi wouldn’t get paid for. There’s nothing wrong with the work we want to do just that income on it is unknown. There is risk involved, so financial security bridges that gap to live your calling.
Happy for a few months until retirement gets into a routine of watching videos all day. A lot of time to fill from 34 on. Retiring early should be about running into the next productive chapter in life. Not running from working.
@stevenporter863 I was injured for a 3 month period. Out of work and paid at 100%. I had the greatest time! My kids are young and watching them play at the park, walking with them, being part of recreational activities, relaxing and napping was amazing. Some like to work, I absolutely hate every second of it. It's not that I don't appreciate my pay and benefits, I'd rather be at home and doing whatever I want, whenever I want. It's just how I function. I'll never like working and retiring early is something I strive for!
@@SkylarPixel Talking in general, not necessarily about your special circumstance.
@stevenporter863 completely understand. I just keep hearing these personalities talk about "don't retire early, you have an act 2". Not everyone wants an act 2 or even act 1. People should do whatever makes them happiest!
Dave needs to PUBLICLY apologize to George, as well to his viewers who are sick of his unhinged rants and belittling speeches. If Dave can't control his temper, he needs to step down. The personalities may not be allowed to deviate from his message, but at least they have a chance at not perpetuating the gross behavior if they stop emulating him. His ego and rudeness is starting to infect Ken especially.
As someone who saves above 50% of my income, I don't really find it to be a struggle or anything. I just...live very frugally because I don't spend money on stupid stuff.
Edit: I do also make a good salary so that helps
Props to you and those that can do it, but for me, there has to be balance and not enjoying anything in life now for the sake of saving every last penny doesn't seem appealing to me at all. Technically anything that brings enjoyment in life beyond necessities can easily be thrown in the "stupid stuff" category, so you have to define that cut-off somewhere.
@panzer_TZ yeah that's why I threw in my edit. I just live on my income from a decade ago and chill. And then save the raises. My goal is to reach fi at like 40 and then just donate my salary to charity for a decade.
Can I ask ballpark how much do you make and what city you're in?
That is how I feel also. Our salary is high and we saved and invested 50% plus of our income. So the reasoning is instead of working 40 years, we only really need to work 20 years. Now that 23 years of working has passed....hmmm....hahaha.. My Barista FIRE situation isn't too bad to be honest.
@rayzee0285 I make about 100k but I was on pace to do it way over in orange County california since i kept my rent to 550 in southern california in 2017 (I lived on cheaper than I do now) and I live in the acela corridor now.
I just live on the same 1500 biweekly salary I made out of college a decade ago. My lifestyle inflation all stayed under that number.
I work on high end homes for very wealthy people. What they have in common is that they are always working even though they don't have to.
I'm sure they are working on their business and not for someone else. They get to control theiri time and effort.
George and the Crew put out fantastic videos
The video is still up yay! 😊
If you’re starting late to save for retirement it’s worth it to look at some of the fire tactics to maximize your savings in the limited time you have left to catch up your retirement savings
This is the video that pissed Dave off 😂
Dave was an asshole for throwing George under the bus.
@@mysticaltyger2009 am I right to assume Dave never apologized?
wow video is still up. Either Dave can't find this video or he's just an angry old man yelling at clouds that doesn't actually do what he says.
He did remove the article that I mentioned on the call though. Dave's team called me back, and asked for the name of this video. I told them, and they said that George was just talking about FIRE, but he doesn't give an alternative to the 4% there within. I told them that he actually claims it isn't conservative enough per honest math. They just thanked me and asked to call back if I needed help with anything else.
@@hopefilledfinancial That's such a crap answer from the Ramsey team because even the part where he's talking about the 4% leaving only 0.03x of your money is based on a 30 year normal retirement timeline and not even related to fire other than 4% is not enough for 30+ years of retirement.
@@whasian2007 Exactly! I explain as much on my reaction/review of the call. But, this may be why Dave didn't have this video taken down. He may have taken the word of his team that it just talks about what FIRE is. I like this video. I really do, and I would hate to see it then down. It may note help that it is explained here in the comments, but Dave isn't reading my comments.
Dave needs to learn about sequencing return risk, which is why the recommend withdrawal is far lower than the 8% he says.
Good video on the FIRE movement. A few points: It was stated you pay penalties for withdrawing money early from retirement accounts. The FIRE movement uses a “Roth conversion ladder” strategy to avoid paying these penalties. Because of this strategy you need 25x your expenses across all investment accounts even pretax….not post tax like stated in the video.
This is an amazing video. Very reasonable.
It’s a good hump day when the Kamel drops a vid!
It is interesting to see George talking about a 4% withdrawal rate when Dave often talks about withdrawing 10% a year in retirement.
Exactly! I reacted to a clip where Dave, with George, were discussing how financial lemmings say 4% is safe but 5% is crippling. Dave called that BS and went on with his 8% to 10% numbers and made fun of the advisors who roll with conservative SWRs. IN THIS VIDEO, the 5% SWR looks super risky compared to 4%. That is the exact point I make in my show, and I am excited to see Dave change his mind soon.
Dave talks about 12% actually.
I also noticed this, Dave is on record saying 8-10% is fine for growth mutual funds. I agree with many Ramsey principles in general so I'm close to diet Dave or Dave light, but they always present their own solutions with 10-12% average returns and 8-10% withdrawal, then use 4% for any other plan they do not agree with which changes numbers drastically.
@@36goingon90 I bet, we can get Dave to change his mind with love, logic, and evidence. It is my current mission to see all of Ramsey Solutions become consistent on this front.
8-12% is on return, not safe withdrawal. They seem similar but are quite different. Especially when retiring young there is an increased volatility/risk. Which means the two numbers will be even more different than other normal retirement circumstances.
That “ Merry crisis” 😂 almost make me drop my breakfast 😅. Great video and info about FIRE.
I started my personal finance journey by learning about FIRE. I have no intentions of retiring early (i'm turning 36 and planning on working until 60). I used the concepts I learned in FIRE to plan my retirement at 60. I got the stuff that I think will work for me and my husband, and skipped those that just don't apply to us and our goals.
you're still expect to retire 6 years early. ;)
I agree with you in the video Kamel. So everyone’s real question is where is Ramsey’s 8% withdraw on that chart and how long would it mathematically (aka safely) last.
Once you get financial Independence you could do anything you want. Don't worry so much about the retirement part.
The issue with FIRE is that the people doing it usually leech off people in their lives to reduce their own costs.
We stand with George in solidarity 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
I don’t follow FIRE or Ramsey, but what Ramsey always gets wrong is assuming ppl who choose FIRE will just stop working. That’s not true. Bottom line is Ramsey crew don’t condone “non traditional “ ways of living/working. That’s it.
They can't see/think outside the box, but they also have to follow the company line/rules since that's their schtick. I'm sure some of the personalities may have differing views from what the company spouts, but they can't say it out loud and have to condemn anything that doesn't line up with their company messaging.
I remember Dave’s take on fire and he was saying how everyone was gonna move to an island and never see your family again lol where does fire say you’ll never see your family again or that you’ll move to some island
Out of interest, if you don’t stop working, then doesn’t that counteract the “retire early” part? Or is the goal to be able to do what you want in terms of work?
@@bens196the "retire" means you do what you want without worrying about your jobs income. So you could work part-time at a low stress job and pursue your passions or have a low earning business, or move to your dream location and volunteer or something. Basically you live on your terms and don't move or land work because you NEED to, you just do it cause you WANT to
Brilliant explanation.
7:24. That's some passive-aggressive fortune cookie tidbit right there
Best George Kamel video ever!
The fact that this video is still up after yesterdays outburst tells me Dave realized the caller had the wrong context. Hopefully Dave will issue an apology for his brash comments yesterday.
The article that was mentioned got taken down. It makes me a bit sad. I like this video and the article.
@@hopefilledfinancial that's very unfortunate. I was hoping that Dave would do right by George. I hope there's an apology the next time he's on air.
I came here looking for this.
FIRE these days is a lot of people trying to retire at fifty something as well, I've heard 55 or 57 thrown around a lot. There's a whole spectrum.
Glad it's still up! Still better than 8%, but retiring early in life if you can afford it is probably a good idea. :)
The key is no debt, 2 years worth of average expenses saved and investing into the market on a consistent basis.
Am 58 retiring next year but the thought of retirement gives me weakness. My apologies to everyone who have retired and filing social security during this time after putting in all those years of work just to lose everything to a problem you never imagined to happen. It’s so difficult for people who are retired and have no savings or loved ones to fall back on.
True, It has never been easier to understand how to build your money after retirement than it is right now with the inflation, when you may study and experience a completely variegated market passively by employing a successful portfolio-advisor. The impacts of the U.S. dollar's gain or fall on investments, in my opinion, are complex.
Even if you’re not skilled, it is still possible to hire one. I was a project manager and my personal portfolio of approximately $850k of my retirement pension took a big hit in April due to the crash. I quickly got in touch with a financial-planner that devised a defensive strategy to protect my funds and make profit from my portfolio this red season. I’ve made over $250k since then.
that's impressive!, I could really use the expertise of this advisors , my portfolio has been down bad....who’s the person guiding you.
Monica Amanda McClure ’is the advisor that guides me. She’s a verified coach and she helped me see that returns can be made in both bull and bear markets. She covers things like investing, insurance, making sure retirement is well funded and looking at ways to have a volatility buffer for investment risk, look - her up
This was helpful. Thank you. I checked her website out. I have sent her an email, and I hope she gets back to me soon.
Sorry Dave blasted you on that other video…he is 8% withdrawal advice is totally irresponsible and completely ignores sequence of returns risk
Dave is right, without hope there is nothing.
George respects and loves Dave. He isnt going anywhere
solid video george. but, you dont have to only use the bridge account. you can also take out the contributions from your roth ira. you can do this tax and penalty free, even if you are not 59 & a half. you do have the penalty if you withdraw the earnings though. the honest math chart is using a 70/30 stock to bond allocation, which is not typical of the fire community. most fire disciples use s&p500 or total market index funds where the 4% rule still stands up. also, many of them use rental cash flow to supplement their income.
This dude is on fire
For me, it’s about the FI and not necessarily the RE. I like being able to just walk out of a job if it is no longer where I want to be (in fact, I did this once, and it was even better than I thought it would be).
Of course. Once you have enough money you can do anything you want.
FINALLY! A Ramsey Solutions video that recognizes conservative SWRs exist. I think there are better studies than the one at honestmath (I think my study is much more usable as one example), but this is progress! Now, George, please tell me you are taking this SWR information to Dave to recant his 8 to 10% SWR advice that he gives to traditional retirees on the main radio show. I don't care which study you cite as evidence, but I have been praying for Dave to change his position on SWRs. I think this is a great start! Keep It Up!
I too thought this was a bit ironic. Just a week ago dave told someone they would be able to live perpetually on the 8-12% average return their portfolio netted without ever depleting the principal
5:52 For 3%, why is the portfolio balance higher than the starting amount for short retirements, but lower for longer ones? If we assume low market returns, the average balance should only go down over time and vice versa.
I think a more useful number would be percent chance of draining the entire portfolio before you die. If you do tens of thousands of simulated trials with 4% withdrawal, I'd bet the vast majority end up with portfolio balance much higher than the starting amount. The chart is for an era of lower projected returns (whatever that means exactly). It's good to be conservative, but worth noting that this isn't an overall average for expected returns.
My good friend retired at the age of 38; which was 35 years ago. Since then, he lives 6 months in Chicago and 6 months in Hawaii. How did he do it? Two reasons: 1) he is by far the cheapest person I have ever met. 2) He invested more than 50% of his working salary in commercial real estate. So, early retirement is possible, but you have to have a plan and discipline.
Wow. So glad I watched the entire video! Context is key. George was in NO WAY endorsing the FIRE plan or the 4% rule. He was just stating practically what you would have to do for the plan to work; he then talks about why he doesn't like the FIRE plan itself. He's still on brand with Dave; the caller brought up the clip out of context--hence Dave's reaction--lol
Agreed. Glad to see someone else actually watched the video to compare. Daves caller from Nov 2nd apparently did take this 3% draw out of context and missed George's whole point. Which was to prove how this fire movement has its own flaws and is unrealistic. Dave went a little overboard but George is in total agreement with Dave in the end.
I am currently in my 50s and This is no time to taper retirement savings. I want to max out my retirement contributions and I also have another $120k in a savings account that i want to invest in a non-retirement account. Where would you invest this as of now?
Look up dividend aristocrats. Pick six to ten from that list. Those companies have a track record of 25+ years of paying dividends. Also, its advisable you work with a financial advisor to help set up a well-structured portfolio.
I agree. Based on personal experience working with a financįal advlsor, I currently have $800k in a well-diversified portfolìo that has experienced exponential growth from when i started. It's not only about having money to invest in stõcks, but you also need to be knowledgeable, persistent, and have strong hands to back it up.
Your advisor must be excellent. How can I get in touch with them? I'm worried about the decline in my retirement portfolio and could really use some guidance.
I'm cautious about giving specific recommendations as everyone's situation varies. Consider independent financial advisors like "Melissa Elise Robinson" I've worked with her for 9 years and highly recommend her. Check if she meets your criteria.
Thanks for sharing. I curiously searched for her full name and her website popped up immediately. I looked through her credentials and did my due diligence before contacting her.
To each its own. Sp don't be a hater, George.
Love your show 😊
It’s funny I was listening to Dave Ramsey the other day and someone called in and told Dave that George said you should take 3 percent out of your retirement to be safe he got so mad said it STUPID and he is going to remove this video immediately. Dave says you can take 8 percent in retirement which I find insane I would agree with the 4 percent rule.
If you do Dave’s rule of 8 percent there’s a good chance you will run out of money if the market goes negative a few years in row.
…oh child I heard dat! I recently got a whiff on the FIRE concept from a few friends who thought I did it for I’ve been work free since I was 35 (54 now). I am just lucky for I had a Father who taught me finances/stock and Mother who still bugs me about budget and her crazy Mother who I constantly pestered and left me a hefty chunk. But here is the but, but I had worked a lot. At 19 together with an Aunt got a laundromat, sold it after 5 years (great profits) a few other businesses while employed by United Airlines as Cabin Crew which most my pay I did invest in houses, a strip mall, a few start ups in the Silicon Valley where I live and marrying well. Wish I was still able to be Cabin Crew for I loved every minute of it, too bad I got injured badly in one of the major supermarkets, they paid big time but I paid more with my health and corny as it sounds Health is Wealth. Take care of it
this is by far your funniest video
4:39 Oooooo you said 3%, Dave is gonna throw 🐫 under the 🚌 😅
Hope you survived the 🫏 whooping!
You need to rewatch the video if you think that’s what I said.
@@GeorgeKamel I'm just rattling your chain. 😆 I know what you meant, I rewatched it, that call today was completely misunderstood by everybody. The caller today took what you said out of context and Dave didn't really get all the info. The chat just went wild though, everyone had a good time, but I think folks all knew you were going to be all right. Take care!
@@GeorgeKamel The caller yesterday failed to listen to what you were talking about in this video and asked a question out of context. Hopefully, everything got cleared up.
I agree with you in the video Kamel. So everyone’s real question is where is Ramsey’s 8% withdraw on that chart and how long would it mathematically (aka safely) last.
@trinitymoto Did you look at the slide...even at just 5% all those time frames they ran out of money...what do you think 8% would do. Easily someone could retire at 60 and live to 90s.
I love George Kamel! He is so entertaining while teaching! I wish my high school teachers were this entertaining!
Team George
It is rather curious that the Ramsey-brand of personal financial advice is aggressive in terms of retiring debt, including mortgage (advising blanket 15 year mortgage terms is a distinguishing feature of their advice), but struggle with the idea that their more financially-literate audience would want to hasten their departure from under the thumb of their employers? Why the suggestion not to pursue FIRE, to "just find a job you like"? Though we could agree that it is preferable to do something you like, the framing makes it seem pathological to the individual (greed? selfishness? no hobbies or relationships? Etc.) rather than a response to conditions (including, but not limited to: decades of stagnating wages, the difference in tax treatment of wages vs capital, potential replacement by automation).
Yah he says extremes aren’t good but the Ramsey plan is more extreme than other personal finance advice. Especially the only have $1000 while paying off debt. From experience, we’ve had emergencies that are more than $1000 so this is very risky if you’re avoiding more debt. But Ramsey isn’t a big fan of individual empowerment when that means a radical change in how people treat each other - corporate America shifting.
Consider also Ramsey is very against bankruptcy for most people. I just completed bankruptcy for 2 credit cards and an auto loan and it’s one of the best decisions we’ve made! We bought a house last year which is less than our previous rent which is also a no no on the Dave plan while getting out of debt, but that’s also one of the best decisions we’ve ever made! Personal finance is just that… personal. He chose arbitrary rules within Biblical principles that the Bible (in its wisdom passages) is not so strict on. It’s very extreme. The getting off of debt intensity is understandable when you’re paying off… but life is also a balance of things.
They have always seen FI as competition and was actually kicking people off their Facebook pages for talking about specifically ChooseFI.... they want to make content off its back, but they truly do hate the movement even though the baby steps are a great stepping stone for the FI movement.
Also, most today believe in FI, and not so heavy on the RE... but the Ramsey team will always call it FIRE instead of FI, because FI takes away their biggest gripe.... Retiring early..
Does anyone else think it's weird that George has to put the Ramsey brand at the beginning of the video and in the watermark of the video? I'm assuming that Ramsey Solutions collects a portion of this channel's revenue stream, which is kind of limiting George in ever developing his own brand. I wonder how long that contract is that George has to split revenue with Ramsey Solutions. I'm assuming that Ramsey Solutions helps with George's production and all that but I guess this whole fiasco is making me question what the terms of the relationship is between this channel and Ramsey Solutions
Nice to see Dave hasn't followed through on his threat to take this video down.
I would love to retire at 35 from secular work and do ministry work for the rest of my life without having to worry about money for expenses.
This is my goal too!
I want to own a small farm and live with a peace of mind, and have pile of cash being stash in the middle of the farm. 😂
My goal is not retiring at all..I want money freedom I want to work on something (work, garden, house, fitness, helping people) till death
Yah my husband wants to “retire” so he can volunteer for good causes and enjoy life. Ain’t nothing wrong with that.
Cant help and notice the honnest math page slide shows just 5% withdrawl will kill your retirement in 20 years...but 8% per Dave is fine 😂 so you really need to withdraw around 2.5% to be safe with Fire and 3.5% if retiring around 55. To really do effectively FIRE you gotta move to a cheaper country than the US.
The part of fire I can’t get with is DIY and biking everywhere, even with kids. Mr Money Mustache isn’t for me in that department. I also am not giving up that much of my life today to retire that much sooner. I thankfully love my job 🥳
I love how George deals with the reality of retiring in your 30s.
50 is my fire goal, very reasonable for more folks with a gov pension at 60, and SS. I am ahead of schedule with a 40% savings rate. I would retire earlier if I could, but not willing to lean fire.
There are so many paths for fire. I'd argue saving 30% and retiring at 50 is FIRE. But so is saving 80% and retiring at 30.
52 is my goal. My aunt and uncle retired to a beach house around that point and said it was the best decision they ever made. They got nothing jobs at the beach and just chilled.
They encouraged me to aim for thst too. You're still young enough to enjoy life without needing to overly sacrifice.
@@e22ddie46 My goal is 45, but I'm expecting to miss and land somewhere around 50.
@@emoney1231Saving only 30% and retiring at 50...like your optimism. Afraid inflation Cost are going to push back many peoples retirement.
@@markg999 Inflation comes in waves. Over the past 5 years, the S&P500 is up 8.2% per year adjusted for inflation, so it shouldn't have killed anyone's retirement plans yet. Feel free to predict doom on the future, but I won't be doing that.
I wanna reach FIRE so when I have to wake up super early to go to work one day I can actually mean it when I say, "maybe I don't really need this job!!"
the topic is explained very well!
My goal is to work less over the years. It would be perfect if at 50 I only had to work 4 days a week, at 55 3 days, at 60 2 days and finally at 65 I could stop. I'm currently 34 years old and am investing again in my education so that I can have more free time sooner. But first let’s see what the future brings. Just because I think today I could later live on the money I earn in 2 working days doesn't mean that it will actually be the case. and maybe I don't want to work less at that age! I just want the freedom :)
It's crazy how we have to come up with a number based on how many years we plan to live whereas people with pensions just stop getting money when they die... What do people do when have less money than years? And what if you have no children or no family to help? Our society is in for a really bad time...
There's a reason why pensions didn't last very long... they can't be invested in equities, so the returns possible only equal average inflation.
George you are rockin it!
I did retire early from my original profession but picked up another life long one. I was a minister but due to conflicts with the church I decided to leave. Now with that I also felt I wasn't actually helping people either so when my decision to leave the ministry was announced I was surprised as the church wanted to keep me listed as the common title for retired pastors as pastor emeritus. I took the stage and explained to the congregation "when the team selected me to serve as your minister of Christian education they unintentionally gave me the exact same job description as senior pastor but in my capacity I felt this was not appropriate so many times I could have done things without input from the senior pastors I either referred the members to them or took the concerns or ideas to the pastors." getting back to the point leaving has sent me into working for government agencies handling entitlements.
Hi George, yet more great content, thanks. I've been through all my expenses, bills are £403.4 per month, not including food, so I reckon 12 months will be £12,000 minimum, and 25 times that gives me £300,00. Cool.
The only thing more certain than death and taxes is 12% market returns