“Your focus should be on your customer and providing them a with solution, not what makes you feel good as a programmer” Possibly the most important thing to learn about programming right there, aside from being able to produce functional code of course.
I definitely agree. I remember a few decades ago when a bunch of us were all gathered in the office of a seriously talented programmer. We came up with a simple task which needed to be done, involving some kind of substitution (I forget exactly what). The really talented programmer brought up vi, and typed in approximately 10 lines of C. He then compiled it; there were no errors. He then ran it; it worked as expected. Now there were also some other seriously good programmers with decades of programming behind them in that room. And yet with such a small task achieved flawlessly on first try, everybody broke out into spontaneous applause. What I took away from that was that programming in a basic editor is actually really rather hard. Spin forward another decade, and I was on site with a contractor who was tasked with converting a legacy application to J2EE. When we arrived, we were simply astonished to find they were doing all their debugging using 'System.out.println' and notepad because "You can't debug the server code in an IDE." (Needless to say, there were plenty of bugs.) It took only a handful of minutes to get the IDE set up to debug the server, and with the benefit of dynamic debugging with breakpoints and stepping through code we probably achieved more in the week we were there than they had in months. What I took away from that was that using an IDE can actually be incredibly useful. It is true, I think, that exclusively using an IDE can make you a bit sloppy or 'forgetful' about some of the code fundamentals. (I actually had to look up 'System.out.println' just now because normally it's just a few hot-keys and an auto-expansion away. Also; I've not used Java for a year now, and I've used a more sensible debug library for many years, too. The key point, though, is that I knew it existed, and it took about 2 seconds to look up.) I also agree that IDE generated code is not always optimal. In reality (apart from a few specialist areas) this seldom really makes much difference. Also, there is a learning curve to all IDEs. In order to start using them, especially using them efficiently, requires a fair bit of familiarity. All have their own quirks (and bugs) which you need to understand and be able to compensate for. But do those things _really_ matter? It's a bit like refusing to use email because the postal system still exists. Or using your debit card to draw out cash and always paying by cash, even though most places accept contactless payment these days. I'd rather get all the help I can to do the boilerplate and donkeywork stuff and spend more time on less trivial things like algorithms, functionality and meeting requirements. BTW, as an experienced contractor programmer, no interview I've been to in many, many years has bothered to ask the 'obvious' technical interview questions. It's a waste of time as everyone knows this things can be looked up in a jiffy. It'd also be slightly offensive and patronising. And it'll soon become apparent if my CV is not what it claims to be.
Thanks for that, it was a great read and I can totally relate - In 2021 I am using IDE's more often than not, but I still feel command line skills are useful, just less useful than they use to be. It really comes down to the job at hand, and what tools are best to solve it. Regarding the technical questions in an interview, for more advanced positions, sure, that can be the case, but I can assure you for junior positions, technical questions are still asked. Depends on the employer of course.
@@TheLearnProgrammingChannel "using IDEs 'more often than not'" That phrase intrigues me. Especially given the video. Under what circumstaces would you _not_ use an IDE? I understand that as an instructor, you need a very firmly grounded idea of the basics of both APIs and syntax, and need to express those directly and without skipping anything. But is that all there is to it? Or are there other situations where you genuinely find an IDE to be a negative compared to the alternatives? And yes, I can totally understand that more junior positions can ask those sort of interview questions. But outside fundamental programming ideas (what is an RDB, give 3 concepts behind polymorphism, etc) if someone asks a question about specific syntax or an API, my advice would be this, even at a junior level, just say; "I know what I'm trying to achieve, so I'd probably look it up." Of course if you know the actual answer, follow it up with that. But being able to find out things you don't yet know is much more important than simply learning book-knowledge and reciting it, imho.
Nice one. Yep I used Visual Studio everyday as a Ruby and Javascript dev. Its awesome because I can run my specs easily and it has an inbuilt command line. Just makes development easier.
Yep I agree - I didn't show the command line in the video that can be accessed from within IntelliJ. Most IDE's have something similar and have some context when you use it - it might open the command line automatically at the right path to edit a file, and so on. VS rocks as well. And if the IDE does not support a given language natively there is often some way to extend the IDE to do so with plugins or extensions.
Thanks Tim, your video is a good demonstration of the value of using an IDE. I have worked with and without IDEs over the years and I agree that a good IDE has a big impact on productivity. I do like (and support) the Jetbrains tools, but they do lack GUI builders.
Great video (as always). Is there a Python IDE that allows for drag and drop WYSIWYG GUI application development? Several months ago I got frustrated and put on hold one of the courses you have on a learning website because I couldn't stand using tools like Tkinter et. al. to compose a form with controls as part of an Python application. If there's no such tools I feel any Python coding I do will perforce be for console type applications only. There is simply no way that I am going to manually compose a form layout. I don't think it should be necessary in 2019 to use Tkinter or other tools in order to develop forms in Python. Can you advise?
Not a programmer by any stretch of the imagination yet, but I tend to use a simple text-editor like notepad+ (I prefer Atom as it has some shortcuts) and command line for studying, because you just learn a bit more from making mistakes. If I'm working on a multiclass project etc. I prefer using an IDE.
"usually the copy and replace doesn't get it perfect" vim isn't sed. it is not a stream editor. just select the lines on which you want to replace a string by another.
IDEs are great, when they work... I have had issues with some IDEs and PHP mixed with HTML, highlighting was all wrong and was terribly confusing. I first wrote BASIC code, then went to Pascal, which in the old days, Borland had Turbo Pascal, which came with an IDE, and that was pretty cool, compared with the extremely basic interface for most BASIC languages back in the late 70's and early 80's. Also, there are much better ways from a CLI to make changes in your code.
Any modern IDE wouldn't have an issue with PHP these days - Early IDE's tended to suck that is true. They have evolved and are pretty amazing these days in their capabilities. I don't see many reasons to use the CLI for source code editing these days when IDE's are so much more productive. And this from a CLI guy who grew up coding that way.
I see . You don't know Vim much and you compare it with IDEs ... You don't know how powerful is Vim when configured . I hope you understand the power of Vim
Well, it’s harder to visualise and read code from the cli .. just visually. The CLI is very rigid in its application and you are really working in the most basic/raw form of writing. That isn’t necessarily bad, whatever you like. However, IDE’s are better if you are solving big data blocks. It’s easier to manage/organise the structure of what you’re doing. Like writing a massive novel .. when you type it all up you need a way to structure everything without getting lost in your framework. You don’t want to spend a large chunk of your mind keeping track of everything, so let the IDE do the ‘admin’ for you. It’s not necessarily a problem if you’re doing small blocks of code but over time you need to manage your house and keep things tidy, organised. At least I do 😁
I didn’t say you couldn’t organise your files via file manager .. I said the IDE ‘helps’ it makes it easier to visualise, do you understand that it’s easier than the cli???? I didn’t say you couldn’t do it that way, it’s just graphically and visually easier that was my point. So no, I’m not wrong. I can also model a software system in OCL and UML because it helps communicate the system, that is a fact and a universal standard so I’m not wrong there either 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻
17:00 Unfair comparison. You closed vim multiple times. in vim you can open multiple files at once*. If you closed the ide i doubt you could ctrl+z. In vim just press "u" to undo and ctrl+r to redo. * it is easy to edit multiple files. you have different buffers. you can split screen, etc.
He talks about that in one of his UA-cam videos. You should check it. Bottom line, it all depend on you, we all learn at different speeds. Have a nice day
17:20 wrong. ides suck. I know many people more productive on the cli. Ide leads to crappy code, suggestions often suck, since the ide corrects you, you keep making the same mistakes.
This video just convinced me NOT buy you couse on uedemy. You are just not honest when compare ide vs vi. You shuld have the vim configured first, then make the video. Things like npm create react app generate a boilerplate much easier than the ide. I am sure you know how properly set up vim can be used, but you made it look hard on porpouse just to make a reason fir peple to buy your course.
Are your numerous typos and errors deliberate trolling, or are you just so sloppy that you don't even care? Fine in online comments, I suppose, but compilers tend to require 100% accuracy in such matters. If your post is anything like your code, good luck getting anything to work.
@@Varksterable Sorry for the mistakes, but I am not a native English speaker. And guess what ? I am typing now from work. Because a good programmer is not the one who knows how to write, but the one who knows what to wright. By the way, code editors are very good at detecting typos, but how would you know that ???
Watch Tim's Free Learn to Code Course on UA-cam!
ua-cam.com/play/PLXtTjtWmQhg0N08o_oSaAantmQAu-1Xad.html
“Your focus should be on your customer and providing them a with solution, not what makes you feel good as a programmer”
Possibly the most important thing to learn about programming right there, aside from being able to produce functional code of course.
Agreed Jake. Focus on the customer and their needs first and foremost.
is impressive how much i learn from you XD. thanks.
I am glad to help!
I definitely agree.
I remember a few decades ago when a bunch of us were all gathered in the office of a seriously talented programmer. We came up with a simple task which needed to be done, involving some kind of substitution (I forget exactly what).
The really talented programmer brought up vi, and typed in approximately 10 lines of C.
He then compiled it; there were no errors.
He then ran it; it worked as expected.
Now there were also some other seriously good programmers with decades of programming behind them in that room. And yet with such a small task achieved flawlessly on first try, everybody broke out into spontaneous applause.
What I took away from that was that programming in a basic editor is actually really rather hard.
Spin forward another decade, and I was on site with a contractor who was tasked with converting a legacy application to J2EE. When we arrived, we were simply astonished to find they were doing all their debugging using 'System.out.println' and notepad because "You can't debug the server code in an IDE." (Needless to say, there were plenty of bugs.)
It took only a handful of minutes to get the IDE set up to debug the server, and with the benefit of dynamic debugging with breakpoints and stepping through code we probably achieved more in the week we were there than they had in months.
What I took away from that was that using an IDE can actually be incredibly useful.
It is true, I think, that exclusively using an IDE can make you a bit sloppy or 'forgetful' about some of the code fundamentals. (I actually had to look up 'System.out.println' just now because normally it's just a few hot-keys and an auto-expansion away. Also; I've not used Java for a year now, and I've used a more sensible debug library for many years, too. The key point, though, is that I knew it existed, and it took about 2 seconds to look up.)
I also agree that IDE generated code is not always optimal. In reality (apart from a few specialist areas) this seldom really makes much difference.
Also, there is a learning curve to all IDEs. In order to start using them, especially using them efficiently, requires a fair bit of familiarity. All have their own quirks (and bugs) which you need to understand and be able to compensate for.
But do those things _really_ matter? It's a bit like refusing to use email because the postal system still exists. Or using your debit card to draw out cash and always paying by cash, even though most places accept contactless payment these days.
I'd rather get all the help I can to do the boilerplate and donkeywork stuff and spend more time on less trivial things like algorithms, functionality and meeting requirements.
BTW, as an experienced contractor programmer, no interview I've been to in many, many years has bothered to ask the 'obvious' technical interview questions. It's a waste of time as everyone knows this things can be looked up in a jiffy. It'd also be slightly offensive and patronising. And it'll soon become apparent if my CV is not what it claims to be.
Thanks for that, it was a great read and I can totally relate - In 2021 I am using IDE's more often than not, but I still feel command line skills are useful, just less useful than they use to be.
It really comes down to the job at hand, and what tools are best to solve it. Regarding the technical questions in an interview, for more advanced positions, sure, that can be the case, but I can assure you for junior positions, technical questions are still asked. Depends on the employer of course.
@@TheLearnProgrammingChannel "using IDEs 'more often than not'"
That phrase intrigues me. Especially given the video. Under what circumstaces would you _not_ use an IDE?
I understand that as an instructor, you need a very firmly grounded idea of the basics of both APIs and syntax, and need to express those directly and without skipping anything. But is that all there is to it? Or are there other situations where you genuinely find an IDE to be a negative compared to the alternatives?
And yes, I can totally understand that more junior positions can ask those sort of interview questions. But outside fundamental programming ideas (what is an RDB, give 3 concepts behind polymorphism, etc) if someone asks a question about specific syntax or an API, my advice would be this, even at a junior level, just say; "I know what I'm trying to achieve, so I'd probably look it up."
Of course if you know the actual answer, follow it up with that. But being able to find out things you don't yet know is much more important than simply learning book-knowledge and reciting it, imho.
Nice one. Yep I used Visual Studio everyday as a Ruby and Javascript dev. Its awesome because I can run my specs easily and it has an inbuilt command line. Just makes development easier.
Yep I agree - I didn't show the command line in the video that can be accessed from within IntelliJ. Most IDE's have something similar and have some context when you use it - it might open the command line automatically at the right path to edit a file, and so on. VS rocks as well. And if the IDE does not support a given language natively there is often some way to extend the IDE to do so with plugins or extensions.
Thanks Tim, your video is a good demonstration of the value of using an IDE. I have worked with and without IDEs over the years and I agree that a good IDE has a big impact on productivity.
I do like (and support) the Jetbrains tools, but they do lack GUI builders.
Thx for sharing this. It may get me back up to speed. I love your pace.
Great video (as always). Is there a Python IDE that allows for drag and drop WYSIWYG GUI application development? Several months ago I got frustrated and put on hold one of the courses you have on a learning website because I couldn't stand using tools like Tkinter et. al. to compose a form with controls as part of an Python application. If there's no such tools I feel any Python coding I do will perforce be for console type applications only. There is simply no way that I am going to manually compose a form layout. I don't think it should be necessary in 2019 to use Tkinter or other tools in order to develop forms in Python. Can you advise?
I've heard good things about QT Designer - www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/acm67i/best_gui_builder_for_2019/
Normal programming:
C: think, write, compile, test
Python: think, write, test
IDEs:
Python: autocomplete, test
C: yes
Not a programmer by any stretch of the imagination yet, but I tend to use a simple text-editor like notepad+ (I prefer Atom as it has some shortcuts) and command line for studying, because you just learn a bit more from making mistakes. If I'm working on a multiclass project etc. I prefer using an IDE.
I think I’ll stick to Eclipse for java and Visual Studio Community for C++ and C# ;)
Fair enough! :)
"usually the copy and replace doesn't get it perfect"
vim isn't sed. it is not a stream editor. just select the lines on which you want to replace a string by another.
IDEs are great, when they work... I have had issues with some IDEs and PHP mixed with HTML, highlighting was all wrong and was terribly confusing. I first wrote BASIC code, then went to Pascal, which in the old days, Borland had Turbo Pascal, which came with an IDE, and that was pretty cool, compared with the extremely basic interface for most BASIC languages back in the late 70's and early 80's. Also, there are much better ways from a CLI to make changes in your code.
Any modern IDE wouldn't have an issue with PHP these days - Early IDE's tended to suck that is true. They have evolved and are pretty amazing these days in their capabilities. I don't see many reasons to use the CLI for source code editing these days when IDE's are so much more productive. And this from a CLI guy who grew up coding that way.
I see . You don't know Vim much and you compare it with IDEs ... You don't know how powerful is Vim when configured . I hope you understand the power of Vim
I look forward to your videos everyday!
Thanks for that, I hope I am able to continue to make videos you like watching.
Personally I like the idea of the command line for learning a language with little distractions
command line is more productive
15:29
by the way you can also use the command tree if you want.
14:39 "quite frustrating"
"waste of time"
vim is very hard to learn, but much faster that an ide. Everything u do i can do in 10-20x less keystrokes
14:01
Create a Makefile and vim shortcuts. e.g. you press f5 and it compiles and executes
Well, it’s harder to visualise and read code from the cli .. just visually. The CLI is very rigid in its application and you are really working in the most basic/raw form of writing. That isn’t necessarily bad, whatever you like. However, IDE’s are better if you are solving big data blocks. It’s easier to manage/organise the structure of what you’re doing. Like writing a massive novel .. when you type it all up you need a way to structure everything without getting lost in your framework. You don’t want to spend a large chunk of your mind keeping track of everything, so let the IDE do the ‘admin’ for you. It’s not necessarily a problem if you’re doing small blocks of code but over time you need to manage your house and keep things tidy, organised. At least I do 😁
Yeah I agree - the IDE is a tool to make you more efficient and productive.
wrong
you organize your files in folders. no need of an ide for that
I didn’t say you couldn’t organise your files via file manager .. I said the IDE ‘helps’ it makes it easier to visualise, do you understand that it’s easier than the cli???? I didn’t say you couldn’t do it that way, it’s just graphically and visually easier that was my point. So no, I’m not wrong. I can also model a software system in OCL and UML because it helps communicate the system, that is a fact and a universal standard so I’m not wrong there either 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻
@@danzolion8758 UML sucks. It isn't really object oriented.
13:42
bro... just use :%s/text/substitution/g
if it's on one line obviously don't use the %
Great Videos 👌. Thank You Tim.
Thanks for that.
Lol, manually refactoring code in vi. I'm not a programmer and even I know that vi has search and replace.
17:00
Unfair comparison. You closed vim multiple times. in vim you can open multiple files at once*. If you closed the ide i doubt you could ctrl+z.
In vim just press "u" to undo and ctrl+r to redo.
* it is easy to edit multiple files. you have different buffers. you can split screen, etc.
Feel attacked in your VI pride or why are you spamming these commentary section?
@@bloodshoot1115 I feel assaulted in my vi pride!!!
Hello Tim🙏 I bought java masterclass, how much time it takes to complete all courses 🤔?!
He talks about that in one of his UA-cam videos. You should check it. Bottom line, it all depend on you, we all learn at different speeds. Have a nice day
@@EPDrawing thank u 🙏
Thanks for the help with this @Mystoganz TV - @Xh Qutim - this video should help ua-cam.com/video/FSR82sTlQi4/v-deo.html
Prideful vim users will use a screwdriver over a power drill and argue at least it doesn't run out of batteries
17:20
wrong. ides suck. I know many people more productive on the cli.
Ide leads to crappy code, suggestions often suck, since the ide corrects you, you keep making the same mistakes.
Yup, employers just want the job done quickly regardless.
15:07
bro, just do java -cp [thedir]/*.java
This video just convinced me NOT buy you couse on uedemy. You are just not honest when compare ide vs vi. You shuld have the vim configured first, then make the video. Things like npm create react app generate a boilerplate much easier than the ide. I am sure you know how properly set up vim can be used, but you made it look hard on porpouse just to make a reason fir peple to buy your course.
I agree
He did stupid noob shit on vim
even on the 1971 ed text editor im faster to do the same edits. read my other comments. this dude doesn't know how to use a computer
Are your numerous typos and errors deliberate trolling, or are you just so sloppy that you don't even care?
Fine in online comments, I suppose, but compilers tend to require 100% accuracy in such matters.
If your post is anything like your code, good luck getting anything to work.
@@Varksterable Sorry for the mistakes, but I am not a native English speaker. And guess what ? I am typing now from work. Because a good programmer is not the one who knows how to write, but the one who knows what to wright. By the way, code editors are very good at detecting typos, but how would you know that ???