Very nice little video. Thanks for showing the surface mount soldering and making up the adapter. I've been into electronics for decades, but only in the last year have I done much with surface mount. In my teens I could paint tiny models with toothpick or fine brush and I could focus down to the tip of nose. Now, in my late 60s, my hands sometimes shake when I'm trying to do fine things and my eyes losing it both for near and far. If I remember correctly, the gain bandwidth would be specified at the 3 dB down point. So, at 500 kHz you should have 3 db, or 50%, of the calculated gain. You went by it pretty quick, but that looked to be just about what your scope was showing, the gain reduced to about half at 500 kHz.
Whatever you could provide in term of theory or demonstration on PID is appreciated.. Also Please let every one know if there is a SOC for PID.. Thank You..
Used the LMV versions, the single, dual and quad variants for a simple audio work project and likewise had to put them on adaptor boards as I tested it all on a bread board. My colleague needed a quad op-amp so he got the LM older type which didn't fair so well till he asked me which ones I got and I told him it was the newer V version but he than ran into the bandwidth issue but then I was working on audio. Good little op-amp. Great videos.
The gain-bandwidth-product is one of the speed limitations. The other one is the slew rate. For the LM321 it is 0.4 V/µs. Which is not a lot. In order to generate an output signal with an amplitude A = 2 V amplitude at a frequency f = 500 kHz, you need a slew rate of at least the max(dV(t)/dt) = 2*pi*f*A = 6.28 MV/s = 6.28 V/µs. This is more than one order of magnitude higher that the slew rate of the LM321,
I just wanted to propose using a breadboard to hold the pins for soldering but I was not fast enough. I always take a special one for the purpose not to ruin the contacts of the good ones but it might be to careful.
I always use a solderless breadboard for this. I solder the 2.54mm header pins first and then place the part. No need for a vice/vise. Furthermore. for DIP adapters I use turned pin machined headers rather than the square pin headers because they slide in and out of the breadboard much more easily, particularly when you have more than a few pins. For SIL I still use the square pins for mechanical rigidity. For soldering the part, I use a flux pen on all pads and solder on corner pin as an anchor, orienting appropriately under a stereo optical microscope. For larger parts, I also solder the diametrically opposite pin too before doing the rest of the pins. Typically I clean the boards in an ultrasonic cleaner too to get rid of any ionic contaminants which will affect hi-z circuits. Residual flux can leak at ITRO 1uA/V. I then use a labelling machine with a 6mm two line label to label the device for future use.
AFAIK, it was Motorola that started the SOT-23 designation for those surface mount packages... but back then, they only had 3 pins (2 on one side, 1 on the other.) For the LM321... it would be SOT-23-5. The JDEC designation for SOT-23 package is TO-236AB.... but not sure if it's TO-236AB for a SOT-23-5 package?
Motorola always went its own way with package designations. The designation was typically 2-4 alphanumeric characters followed by a dash and another 2 or 3 characters, then a "STYLE" designation. I have a ton of old Motorola data, but it is stashed away. I did find one SOT-23 device, the MDC1000BLT1 (an interesting "MOSFET Turn-Off Device with Integral Gate Clamp"). From the datasheet: _MDC1000BLT1_ _CASE 318-07, STYLE 22_ _TO-236AB (SOT-23)_ On the same datasheet a TO-226 (TO-92) is "CASE 29-04,. STYLE 33" A TO-261AA (SOT-223) is "CASE 318E-04, STYLE 6"
The second I saw the internal schematic I recognized it is exactly the same as the 358 & 324. I just watched your video #1676 a couple of weeks ago. Nice timing.
Use the Forceps, IMSAI Guy! One of my favorite tools. I learned that from Fran. "Sometimes 'more' makes 'less' easier" - ha, that was a good and true one! It's all about adhesion and cohesion. Don't skimp on flux too. I also use a breadboard for soldering, working fast on just enough pins to keep the part from moving, and doing all the remaining pins out of the board to prevent heat damage.
I discovered LM321 some time ago, during a disassembling smd pcb session and now it is an ace up my sleeve when I need a single opamp chip in my schematics. It works great for me! P.s.: don’t you forget a good pair of glasses while soldering it!😅
These where the first SMD devices together with BCM847,857 i bought a some years back and i had no idea how small they where and they are still unused in their blister. i blob these devices and later remove excess later with solder wick, but SOT.. devices not yet tried.
this might help: ua-cam.com/video/FzH0VEbI7uQ/v-deo.htmlsi=_6OU_8X82VxrE_iZ opamps can be amplifiers, integrators, current sources, lots and lots of stuff: ua-cam.com/video/oTA8PnHB-tY/v-deo.htmlsi=kcaUs23E0aXhxbq7
Do yourself a solid and get a few "SMT Test Sockets" so you don't have to solder them when testing. You just put the chip on and it clamps. They are especially great if you want to test different chips on the fly.
It was most disconcerting to see the ic being soldered to the adaptor, which has a square conventionally marking pin 1, with its pin 1 on the opposite side. The ic has pins 1, 2, 3 on one side with 4, 5 on the other. It's not going to make much difference except for somewhat increasing the chance of mounting it the wrong way round in a test circuit later, once you've forgotten that pin 1 is on the side with 3 pins, and assume that the square marks pin 1.
I solved the problem of having to use tweezers and adapter boards. I have a stock of thousands of large IC's that will actually drop right into where adapter boards would normally go.
Sometimes people mis-label the SOT-23-5, as "SOT-25". I've seen that in a few places before. Something to watch out for. Also, I use the same trick of using some breadboard to hold the pins while soldering up those little adapters :)
Well, this is just a variation of 358, 324, 2905, and certainly modern ones regardless of their packages are sourced by a different tech process than their grandparents of the same designation.
They also make SOT23 adapters for 3-terminal devices where all the connections are brought to one side only. Add a triplet of 90 degree connectors, and you can use it almost like a TO92 device. I use those.
The SOT-23 is a remarkably big and and clunky package in comparison with some. Before I quit doing this stuff I developed a fondness for dual transistors in a 6-pin thin SO package, the designation of which I can't recall. It occupied less board area than a SOT-23. I could get two devices placed on a PCB for the same cost as one and use the part as either two transistors or a transistor and a diode (convenient for driving a relay).
another interesting "Chip of the Day" video. These SMD fleas don't cost much, in Germany we say: "besser haben als brauchen" ("it's better to have it than to need it") 73 de DL1LAJ
@@IMSAIGuy Only for sufficiently large signals. For example, if you're using a unity gain buffer with an opamp having a gain-bandwidth product of 1 MHz and a slew rate of 0.4V/μs, then a 2V pk-pk sine wave will indeed be slew rate limited at around 64kHz, but any signal less than about 120mV pk-pk will be bandwidth limited to 1MHz.
@@IMSAIGuy Whatever you could provide in term of theory or demonstration on PID is appreciated.. Also Please let every one know if there is a SOC for PID.. Thank You..
@@salehsalehi8955 lots of people are just going to use the Arduino PID library: brettbeauregard.com/blog/2011/04/improving-the-beginners-pid-introduction/
This 5-pin Sot23 package has become so popular that it is also home to single logic gates (and, nand, xor, etc.), because, why put a 14 pin chip for a single gate in your design?!
Patreon will allow you to subscribe , then unsubscribe. It will ask you why you want to unsubscribe, and one of the answers you can give is "I only wanted to make a one time donation" (or something to that effect).
@W1RMD Yeah, that's what I did last year. I didn't want to be a quitter again. Do you know if youtube takes a big cut of the donations made through the super-like option, which I've seen in some channels?
I can solder SMT without any visual aids. My secret - I am very nearsighted. In this case that helps because it's like I have a magnifier glass built into the eyes. For everything else it sucks though. :)
Cant stand soldering left handed. So much so ive been forcing myself to do so. I tell you its not comfortable doing so but way better then flinging parts off the board like i used too. 😂
These videos are getting very long when you stuggle to solder on camera. I'd vote either get a sponsor to provide channel with one of those fancy recording microscopes or dramatically speed up soldering footage / ditch it completely.
Maybe, compared to modern rail-to-rail CMOS amps. But when they came out, the LM324/LM358 opamps were so useful because they could accept inputs as low as several hundred millivolts _below_ the negative rail, which was a godsend for small signal, single-rail applications where it didn't matter if they couldn't swing anywhere near the positive rail.
SOT = Small Outline Transistor. The package was originally used for transistors
Yes there is (or was, because it's long obsolete) a LM322. A "precision timer", sort of a competitor to the 555.
A clean bench is a happy bench - I screamed - as my wife brought me a calming tea.
Very nice little video. Thanks for showing the surface mount soldering and making up the adapter. I've been into electronics for decades, but only in the last year have I done much with surface mount. In my teens I could paint tiny models with toothpick or fine brush and I could focus down to the tip of nose. Now, in my late 60s, my hands sometimes shake when I'm trying to do fine things and my eyes losing it both for near and far.
If I remember correctly, the gain bandwidth would be specified at the 3 dB down point. So, at 500 kHz you should have 3 db, or 50%, of the calculated gain. You went by it pretty quick, but that looked to be just about what your scope was showing, the gain reduced to about half at 500 kHz.
People who like clean benches need to see Jim Williams' idea of a clean bench.
What workbench?
You can just work on a pile of random PCBs
Jim achieved great designs no mater how disorganized his bench looked from the outside, sure he spent all his time designing not cleaning.
His bench gave me inspiration to keep mine the same. I look at it this way. I'm always within arms reach of anything I could need.
I love these tutorials! Thanks for your time in making these!
Whatever you could provide in term of theory or demonstration on PID is appreciated.. Also Please let every one know if there is a SOC for PID.. Thank You..
most will use an arduino: brettbeauregard.com/blog/2011/04/improving-the-beginners-pid-introduction/
My favorite SMD tool is a pair of cross jaws tweezers. Squeezing them releases whats holding, so its self grasping.
Used the LMV versions, the single, dual and quad variants for a simple audio work project and likewise had to put them on adaptor boards as I tested it all on a bread board. My colleague needed a quad op-amp so he got the LM older type which didn't fair so well till he asked me which ones I got and I told him it was the newer V version but he than ran into the bandwidth issue but then I was working on audio. Good little op-amp. Great videos.
I love the SOT23 package lots of features in a tiny package I use LMC7101 with the rail-rail I/O feature super useful in the power monitoring circuit.
different pinout? why didn't they standardize these things
@IMSAIGuy maybe it's related to functionality or maybe they don't care😁
Interesting where is in/famous Class 'stair' of LM358 in this OpAmp? :-/
The gain-bandwidth-product is one of the speed limitations. The other one is the slew rate. For the LM321 it is 0.4 V/µs. Which is not a lot. In order to generate an output signal with an amplitude A = 2 V amplitude at a frequency f = 500 kHz, you need a slew rate of at least the max(dV(t)/dt) = 2*pi*f*A = 6.28 MV/s = 6.28 V/µs. This is more than one order of magnitude higher that the slew rate of the LM321,
I just wanted to propose using a breadboard to hold the pins for soldering but I was not fast enough. I always take a special one for the purpose not to ruin the contacts of the good ones but it might be to careful.
if you are a quick solderer you can get away with it. But i'd use a sacrificial protoboard.
I always use a solderless breadboard for this. I solder the 2.54mm header pins first and then place the part. No need for a vice/vise. Furthermore. for DIP adapters I use turned pin machined headers rather than the square pin headers because they slide in and out of the breadboard much more easily, particularly when you have more than a few pins. For SIL I still use the square pins for mechanical rigidity.
For soldering the part, I use a flux pen on all pads and solder on corner pin as an anchor, orienting appropriately under a stereo optical microscope. For larger parts, I also solder the diametrically
opposite pin too before doing the rest of the pins.
Typically I clean the boards in an ultrasonic cleaner too to get rid of any ionic contaminants which will affect hi-z circuits. Residual flux can leak at ITRO 1uA/V.
I then use a labelling machine with a 6mm two line label to label the device for future use.
AFAIK, it was Motorola that started the SOT-23 designation for those surface mount packages... but back then, they only had 3 pins (2 on one side, 1 on the other.) For the LM321... it would be SOT-23-5. The JDEC designation for SOT-23 package is TO-236AB.... but not sure if it's TO-236AB for a SOT-23-5 package?
Motorola always went its own way with package designations. The designation was typically 2-4 alphanumeric characters followed by a dash and another 2 or 3 characters, then a "STYLE" designation.
I have a ton of old Motorola data, but it is stashed away. I did find one SOT-23 device, the MDC1000BLT1 (an interesting "MOSFET Turn-Off Device with Integral Gate Clamp"). From the datasheet:
_MDC1000BLT1_
_CASE 318-07, STYLE 22_
_TO-236AB (SOT-23)_
On the same datasheet a TO-226 (TO-92) is "CASE 29-04,. STYLE 33"
A TO-261AA (SOT-223) is "CASE 318E-04, STYLE 6"
I love chip of the day.
Would't it be better to put the pins in first?
Having fun today? Loved the humor. Yes, the survey shows 999 out of 1000 likes chip of the day!
A clean bench is not what i have until stuff keeps falling off. Good video.
The second I saw the internal schematic I recognized it is exactly the same as the 358 & 324. I just watched your video #1676 a couple of weeks ago. Nice timing.
Use the Forceps, IMSAI Guy! One of my favorite tools. I learned that from Fran.
"Sometimes 'more' makes 'less' easier" - ha, that was a good and true one! It's all about adhesion and cohesion. Don't skimp on flux too.
I also use a breadboard for soldering, working fast on just enough pins to keep the part from moving, and doing all the remaining pins out of the board to prevent heat damage.
May the forceps be with you.
@@stamasd8500 and U2!
"You guys are a pain in the..." ... ... ... tripod.?????
I discovered LM321 some time ago, during a disassembling smd pcb session and now it is an ace up my sleeve when I need a single opamp chip in my schematics. It works great for me!
P.s.: don’t you forget a good pair of glasses while soldering it!😅
It's not a great op amp by any right, it's a direct descendant of LM324. But if it works for your circuits, that's fine 😊
These where the first SMD devices together with BCM847,857 i bought a some years back and i had no idea how small they where and they are still unused in their blister. i blob these devices and later remove excess later with solder wick, but SOT.. devices not yet tried.
I reached the point with SOT-23 where I was muttering "Jeez these things are big and clunky!"
Very interesting....Im new!! Thanks for the soldering tip.
what is an example and purpose of how this chip is used?
this might help: ua-cam.com/video/FzH0VEbI7uQ/v-deo.htmlsi=_6OU_8X82VxrE_iZ
opamps can be amplifiers, integrators, current sources, lots and lots of stuff: ua-cam.com/video/oTA8PnHB-tY/v-deo.htmlsi=kcaUs23E0aXhxbq7
Do yourself a solid and get a few "SMT Test Sockets" so you don't have to solder them when testing. You just put the chip on and it clamps. They are especially great if you want to test different chips on the fly.
I don't mind your noise chair. Your videos are really good 👍🏾
It was most disconcerting to see the ic being soldered to the adaptor, which has a square conventionally marking pin 1, with its pin 1 on the opposite side. The ic has pins 1, 2, 3 on one side with 4, 5 on the other. It's not going to make much difference except for somewhat increasing the chance of mounting it the wrong way round in a test circuit later, once you've forgotten that pin 1 is on the side with 3 pins, and assume that the square marks pin 1.
A good lab cat will help you clean your desk.
I solved the problem of having to use tweezers and adapter boards. I have a stock of thousands of large IC's that will actually drop right into where adapter boards would normally go.
Sometimes people mis-label the SOT-23-5, as "SOT-25". I've seen that in a few places before. Something to watch out for.
Also, I use the same trick of using some breadboard to hold the pins while soldering up those little adapters :)
SOT = Small Outline Transistor
Well, this is just a variation of 358, 324, 2905, and certainly modern ones regardless of their packages are sourced by a different tech process than their grandparents of the same designation.
Ah! A way to deal with all those excruciating small RF transistors I bought years ago.
Thanks!
They also make SOT23 adapters for 3-terminal devices where all the connections are brought to one side only. Add a triplet of 90 degree connectors, and you can use it almost like a TO92 device. I use those.
The SOT-23 is a remarkably big and and clunky package in comparison with some.
Before I quit doing this stuff I developed a fondness for dual transistors in a 6-pin thin SO package, the designation of which I can't recall. It occupied less board area than a SOT-23. I could get two devices placed on a PCB for the same cost as one and use the part as either two transistors or a transistor and a diode (convenient for driving a relay).
another interesting "Chip of the Day" video. These SMD fleas don't cost much, in Germany we say: "besser haben als brauchen" ("it's better to have it than to need it") 73 de DL1LAJ
best have than need, I like it!
It looks slew rate limited at high frequencies.
yes, all opamps are
@@IMSAIGuy Only for sufficiently large signals. For example, if you're using a unity gain buffer with an opamp having a gain-bandwidth product of 1 MHz and a slew rate of 0.4V/μs, then a 2V pk-pk sine wave will indeed be slew rate limited at around 64kHz, but any signal less than about 120mV pk-pk will be bandwidth limited to 1MHz.
Where do you source your SMD adapter boards and pins?
Thanks for sharing :)
eBay and Aliexpress
HI.. I like your videos.. Could you do a circuit on PID ?
full analog design?
+1 for full analog :)
@@IMSAIGuy Whatever you could provide in term of theory or demonstration on PID is appreciated.. Also Please let every one know if there is a SOC for PID.. Thank You..
@@salehsalehi8955 lots of people are just going to use the Arduino PID library: brettbeauregard.com/blog/2011/04/improving-the-beginners-pid-introduction/
this opamp package makes sense.
But where do you hook up the null pot? :)
This 5-pin Sot23 package has become so popular that it is also home to single logic gates (and, nand, xor, etc.), because, why put a 14 pin chip for a single gate in your design?!
Good opportunity to use your plethora of microscopes, and .....
Kudos to you for soldering sot23 without a microscope.
I want to send a gift, but patreon only has a subscription option.
Patreon will allow you to subscribe , then unsubscribe. It will ask you why you want to unsubscribe, and one of the answers you can give is "I only wanted to make a one time donation" (or something to that effect).
@W1RMD Yeah, that's what I did last year. I didn't want to be a quitter again. Do you know if youtube takes a big cut of the donations made through the super-like option, which I've seen in some channels?
not sure@@jspencerg
I can solder SMT without any visual aids. My secret - I am very nearsighted. In this case that helps because it's like I have a magnifier glass built into the eyes. For everything else it sucks though. :)
@@stamasd8500 He's five years ahead of me. I'm trying to set goals.
Cant stand soldering left handed. So much so ive been forcing myself to do so. I tell you its not comfortable doing so but way better then flinging parts off the board like i used too. 😂
Not everybody.
and yet you give me a comment. thanks!
SMD hater ? 😅
SOT = So Obviously Tiny device package. Its amazing how fiddly electronics is these days. I just need new set of eyes.
I like the down to earth, keeping it real attitude, many thanks. p.s. a clean bench is a sign of an empty mind.....
These videos are getting very long when you stuggle to solder on camera.
I'd vote either get a sponsor to provide channel with one of those fancy recording microscopes or dramatically speed up soldering footage / ditch it completely.
Man, your bench is way too clean. A bench isn't lived in unless it's littered with Dr. Pepper cans and bags of chips
Thank You! you are the first person to ever tell me my bench was too clean 😂
Primeiro like
I hate the LM324... very poor performer at 5V.
ua-cam.com/video/F4DFn6CtUes/v-deo.htmlsi=6-vuG11fqiLo0FQc
Maybe, compared to modern rail-to-rail CMOS amps. But when they came out, the LM324/LM358 opamps were so useful because they could accept inputs as low as several hundred millivolts _below_ the negative rail, which was a godsend for small signal, single-rail applications where it didn't matter if they couldn't swing anywhere near the positive rail.