Please keep in mind, that these are just tools. I’ve worked with most of them and they are all fantastic in their own way. I’ve put Angular lower on the list because I don’t use it, doesn’t mean it’s any worse than React. Bless you all ❤️
Your Next course, it's an update to your "The Full Stack React Course" or is it brand new course? You are saying you will release it soon. Do you mean in a week, a month or???
You should be specific that the list is solely based on the tools you've used. Otherwise you'd be misguiding by passing it off as an unopinionated tier list.
Vue is generally better than Nuxt and better maintained in my experience. Also, "Vapor Mode" is coming to Vue, which will be an opt-in way to remove the v-dom and significantly increase performance, inspired by Solid. The best build system Vite also came out of the Vue ecosystem. There are many positives with this framework and it doesn't seem to be slowing down anytime soon.
@@ankit.chaurasiaYuo can use Vue in mutipage applications with server side rendering as well. That fix the SEO "problem". Vue is great and very flexible. I think it should be a little bit higher in the list.
This is basically the reason why I keep using Vue. An important thing to consider is the ecosystem. Vue's ecosystem is large enough you can find all kinds of plugins for security, high performance virtualization, etc. Saves you time and money in business.
well everyone has their own personal opinion, don't they? i do think vue / nuxt is above react / next because I've tested them, but still below remix, remix rocks
@@akbar-sm it's shocking to me that vue isn't as popular as react or angular when it's so much nicer and easier to understand, from syntax to state management
Framework selection usually depends on the use case. This tier list doesn't necessarily comply to your company's large scale project or to your futuristic 3D browser game. Always do your own research. Then, select the one that fits your end goal and find the most enjoyable to code amongst the others. Have a good day and happy coding!
Gotta say that your jugement on Vue and specially NuxtJS is not pretty honest actually. You can’t just put a meta framework like Nuxt at the same level as React which we all know that Nuxt has really cool features that even Next doesn’t has. And when you do this kind of ranking, you do it in terms of what the tool has TO OFFER and not in terms of what technology do you use. It’s not because you don’t use an specific tool that makes it useless. It’s very important to take into account the pros and cons of each tool otherwise you give a false impression and not showing all the possibilities of each tool and therefore it misleads the people specially for those who want to pick one over another.
Hello! I'm from the ember community, and would like to talk about ember. It's changed a lot over the years, and it's quite modern. Everything you said about it isn't true today (was def true in the old days though! (> 5 years ago)), and I'd like to talk about why Ember is good. :D I'd even be willing to join you on stream if you want!
My argument for Angular: you can put 3 mid level devs with a little of experience with the framework on a project and they will be productive within the first sprint because there are only so many ways to do angular apps. Tried the same with React and had a learning curve over basically a quarter. Anecdote? Probably. But haven't regretted having apps in Angular yet. Vue is cool, but nobody seems to use it where I'm at.
My experience: you can put 4 senior frontend devs into React project and you have a shit code base beyond repair in 4 months because they do not agree on anything, and every junior dev who is not reasonable to listen to experienced dev can be a ticking bomb. I am not joking. It's stressful as hell to develop the large app in React, and even worse is, that every newbie who can write code a little but knows very very few how things work in javascript or React itself calls themselves junior/mid react dev.
@@epj-m8s these things are fads. Didn't catch on enough people. When it comes to choosing a stack people default to what they know and what they know their teammates know. Vue can't really replace Angular apps, since people pick angular for a specific reason, looking to make a certain kind of architecture for a certain kind of app. So Vue is really only a React contender. But then again, it really isn't because its.ecosystem is small in comparison. I only ever see people who come from angular to the less opinionated frameworks really praise Vue (other than the Vue purists, naturally) but push comes to shove, 9/10 if it can be done with Vue it can be done with react and there are more jobs for reac, so guess what they are going to choose.
Gotta say, I love working with Ember. I've not had issues with it being slow (so long as you do things "the Ember way") and you can add on whatever modern tooling you need to it, just like you can do with any other project. It is a highly opinionated framework though, so if you don't like the way it does things, you're better off using something else rather than going off the beaten path.
I really wonder if people hating on Angular actually used Angular for more than one hour. Angular, out of the box, has a lot of features React did not have for years or still doesn't have in the core library.
@avfr There are a lot of reasons why Vue is better: - No useEffect() headache - Vue had "signals" from the start, before they were all the rage - It outperforms Svelte in some cases and React in all cases, while still using a vDOM - Vue's creator is currently working on an vDOM-less alternative similar to SoildJS called Vapor Mode - Components mount once and don't execute their code again and again on re-renders - Top tier Developer Experience and the list goes on...
For SPA’s Vue would still be my pick. It’s Solid’s reactivity on steroids as you can make any class or object deeply reactive. And the deep reactivity is still opt in since you can just use shallowRef or write a wrapper for them to work exactly like signals. Nuxt is, eh. A lot of its magic really interferes with tooling and compile time safety. Angular with signals is looking mighty promising. While I didn’t appreciate it at the time, Angular’s module system is really great for scaling.
I’m most excited for SvelteKit, I can’t put it at S because there simply isn’t a big enough ecosystem but it’s the one that excites me the most. I would like you to redo your movie app with SvelteKit 1.0 and Skeleton UI
You compare next to nuxt and at the same time put nuxt two places lower. Nuxt has most of the next stuff with amazing extra features. I have used both of them for long enough and i will always recommend nuxt above next. You haven’t used it clearly.
@@universe_decoded797Which big companies? All I see is everyone adopting next. We moved from angular to next and both developers and clients are extremely happy with performance.
I've tried React, Next, Vue and Nuxt, I prefer Nuxt and my opinion is that Nuxt stands above those 3, personally I hate React and everything based on it... but when I tried Remix, I drop all those 4, and started to like Remix more than every other framework / library...
have used angular, react and vue in my 7 years doing front end and must say the one that i most like is vue. Angular is just so weird to work with and i cannot stand working with JSX in react. Vue strikes the perfect balance for me! is just so declarative. you can read a vue component as a beginer with no experience in the framework and its pretty obvius what it does.
Something important here for a lot of you is that, regardless of what you like, never take lists like this serious when it comes to jobs. Jobs are mostly just Angular and React. Just learn Angular and React. These cool but useless languages aren't going to help you succeed.
These are not "Languages" they are frameworks and Svelte is the most useful thing ever, its a compiler and not a bloated shit thing that does everything in the browser. There are tinkerers and self employed people out there. There are people who just love open source and people who were able to convince their project managers to use Svelte or something else from that lost or projects. Not everyone wants to work for some stupid tech giant where you have to work with the main frameworks. I know nothing about Angular, what is even written with it? Gmail? It seems like from the old days when jQuery was a thing to me. React is for sure what everyone uses but its unnecessarily complex and already many way faster and better ideas out there.
Yes. But for some unprivileged people, we need to feed our families. And svelte doesn't put food on my table, angular does. Will only even "try" to learn it if there are enough job posting for it.
Whoever can feel the beauty of OOP would love angular more than other frameworks .... simple makes easier and faster but we can't big large scale application without knowledge of Design Pattern and OOP concept
i m dotnet plus angular dev. despite of beauty of oops , sad thing is learning hard stack is paying less than learning easy thing (react) .. mostly stuck in big companies who are not comfortable to pay aggressive salary..and mostly work is like support..big projects are made once and r on maintenance mode for years..no fun
This video was awesome, not only you ranked but you were comprehensive on why you ranked them in the given way. It was almost like a mini overview on the frameworks.
Angular is the matured professional framework, it has simple syntax than react. React is hard to understand, the DX of react is horrible. React is a child play. When it comes to serious enterprise app development, Angular comes in glory. React has brought shame to JavaScript community by making web development unnecessarily complicated.
I mean it’s not like Angular needs validation from UA-cam, it’s probably the literal #1 from the customers that matter, businesses 😅 ain’t nobody using AStRO in production unless it’s simple content delivery. Try making a good complex dashboard in Astro and let the tears flow. If coding for funsies I agree with this tier list, though I’d have svelte in S tier it is clean af
@@lazyengineer007 call it noob all you want. I can build out a fully functional SPA with complete API, user control, 2fa, easy form validation, and a fantastic ORM in record time and super responsive. inertia with Ziggy gives you way more control over your routes than nuxt/next and easier to implement middleware. And sanctum kicks ass! What your stack there Mr expert?
@@saneperson59I don't know what you are talking about. All of the things you mentioned can be done in minutes in next. Drizzle can overshadow any ORM in terms of performance while being extremely DX friendly. Routing is literally the strongest point of next and you have full control over it with next 13 with layouts. Laravel is still great though.
Theres no stronger combo than *Astro+Alpine+Tailwind+Typescript* this is the most fun and enjoyable stack for more interactive websites or simplier web apps. Im huge alpine fan and i would describe it as a mix of vue directives with lifecycle and jquery but in hella fun, good and dx friendly way i ish there would be jobs in it xD. Its mostly used with ssr projects like with django when the server is rendering templates
@@onta.nicolae I meant that what i said, lol. Static website doesn't means that it has 0 interactivity. Static is mostly about static content that doesn't changes dynamically like fullstack apps do that all... interactivity is not about data change, but about component interactivity, so dropdowns, modals any client side interaction with the website. Static website doesn't changes its content. It displays all how it was written, thats the main difference between static and dynamic webs and by adding htmx or anything else u can make it dynamic one.
I tried react and vue, vue is the clear winner, and about frameworks, I've tried next and nuxt. Nuxt 3 is the best thing i have aver seen. Nuxt and the vue ecosistem it's based on developer experience. So use nuxt if you want to work not play around🤣
Virtual DOM is honestly criminal in constrained web devices and also promotes cow methodology (al least with react) which imo is the worst you can advocate for in an interpreter setting
Interesting you put Astro and Solid above Svelte, while SvelteKit actually has more of a following, hit 1.0, and has ISR, form actions, and doesn't use the controversial jsx. Qwik is amazing too. But, to each his own.
Astro 2.0 you can prerender some routes and not others (pretty much exactly the same as SvelteKit). And most of those features Solid will get in some form or another in it's meta-framework SolidStart (currently in beta). As for JSX, I wouldn't say it is controversial these days, especially with tools like TypeScript, esbuild, etc all understanding it out of the box. If anything, Svelte's syntax is more controversial because it looks like vanilla JS and HTML but it's really not.
I think Qwik will be on S-tier soon as it hits to version 1.0. With Angular/Vue/React, those in my books are equally good and bad. I would not rate one over the other, it really comes to personal and team preference.
What's a tier? Without knowing any js or framework yet, qwik is the way I assumed data was handled and I had no idea how bloated the overhead with hydration is, it just makes sense to me and if there's no middle ground I'm thinking im inclined to learn react right away to get comfy with jsx. Stuff like Astro with any flavor sounds good too, what you think?
Can anyone explain why qwik is jsx exclusively? It seems like an answer to hydration couldn't it be stronger with a compiling type framework like svelte or solid (if I got solid right)
so for all the expert here ....i learned html css(bootstrap) and vanilla js ...wich framework should i learn (i was planing to learn react but now i am confuced)
As someone who’s spent years developing in both I’d respectfully disagree. There’s also a reason why all these new awesome frameworks like solidjs are really close to the react style way of development.
I used React for 1 year and now learned Angular. But feels like Vomitting on Angular. All Third class functionalities. Only reason to use it is its folder structure. I doesn't feel like using Javascript. But with React I can understand JS in a much better way.
This would probably my list too, except rate Vue one tier higher and add Eleventy too. But I've been loving Astro from the start, it sits right in the middle of Next and Eleventy imho. Preferred combo is Astro + svelte islands nowadays
To be honest, I’m quite disappointed with this sort of attitude.. Why would you rate various tools that you do not have enough experience with? The whole thing is just purely subjective and that makes the video invalid to me.. Putting React/Next on top of other frameworks just for a reason “Well I don’t use them” seems kinda dumb.. Well do not rate it then
hey Ed, will the react fullstack update be avaiable for free for us who purchased the previous strapi/react e-comerce project? Or this is a completely new course unrelated to that
As someone who has build whole e-commerce web application using vanilla HTML, CSS and JavaScript will never do that again. Building this large project was a nightmare and maintaning it is another nightmare. I don't think I will ever do it and will use js frameworks in future. Before that I didn't knew the advantages of these frameworks
Vue is somewhere between S and A, probably A .. yep, nothing from JS world deserves S, only Astro maybe. Buy yeah, you HUGELY underestimated Vue. I've done work in all those except ember, Lit and Qwik and I really wanted to like, react, than svelte, than solid, and Next and Astro and Nuxt but real SOLID here is Vue :D (and Next) PS: it's aitch not haitch! 😅😇
I don't really like server side rendering, is like going back to php or jsp, do you have an example where SSR is good to use it? I think you review is really good, qwik is underestimated though
React is much worse than Vue, limited, slow, messy with over-rendered subcomponents, and fast-evolving "the right way to do", from class components to functional components then to hooks, and now toward server components. Do you like to rewrite your code every few years? Vue has the best UI frameworks with many mature and fast UI components ready to use, which saves a lot of time. One of the main reasons to use Vue is the Quasar Framework. It has a lot of fast and mature UI components and can generate the code for web SPA, PWA, SSR, Desktop, iOS, Android etc. Adding Next and Nuxt to that comparison does not make too much sense since they are only a kind of meta-framework over React and Vue. In the same way, you should consider the Svelte Kit as an independent "framework" for Svelte :-D
As UI developer using Angular, I find it horrible. Lack of big community support, working with Angular material feels like working with Bootstrap back in a day. Implementing animations is a nightmare too, no proper SSR support
I would disagree that it has made a mess. Before these frameworks there was JQuery hacking everywhere and it was a nightmare to maintain. At lest the modern frameworks promote best practices like factory, service, router, module patterns making code reuse much easier.
Unless Svelte isn't in the S tier, I'm not subscribing. Anything that uses JSX or relies heavily on hooks is a piece of garbage. Why would I want hooks if the framework can handle updates for me?
How is next S tier while Nuxt is B. Nuxt does everything next does and more. Global state it does that as well as a convenient useFetch. With nuxt you don't even have to import components/composables anymore. Did you even create a project with nuxt b4 making this video?
This guy hasn't used Vue before. he's just ranking what he's comfortable writing. To me, I've used most of those frameworks until I got to use vue js. Vue to me is the best of all and should be ranked among the best. React just codes just resemble a glorified normal JavaScript function that returns html.
The thing with these ranking videos is that they are totally biased and opinionated, not a comparison. Its fine I like to know the preferences of other people and investigate by myself the interesting ones, but the fact you ranked angular as a c tier because you "don't use" and ranked a new experimental thing with much less features, that you also don't use and don't know what is going to be, two tiers higher than a proved solid framework explicit shows what I said, is completed biased list. With that said, I like your explanations about your reasons and experiences that are precious; thanks for sharing.
Why everybody saying that Angular is difficult to learn ? In my opinion it's even easier than React with its architecture and "everything in one place". There is no need to learn additional libraries or so called frameworks like Next, Solid etc, which dramatically reduces learning curve to get a job. Like you can basically read Angular docs and some of the most used RxJs operators and you are ready to go, but when using React, first you need to learn React docs, than you need to learn a dozen of libraries for styles, routing, state management and anything else. Is it really that difficult to learn Angular ?
I also feel the same. But after I learned Angular I hate it. React is much much better to code. Coding with Angular feels like unnecessarily changing Real DOM everytime, even for small change and There are unnecessary Life-cycle methods, no proper way of using it mentioned any where.
@@4444-c4s looks like you didin't used angular- there is stuff like onPush, trackFn and other stuff. Mosty ppl dont use all lifecycle hooks, and how they can be unnecessary? if you dont want to use specific one, just dont use it
Please keep in mind, that these are just tools. I’ve worked with most of them and they are all fantastic in their own way.
I’ve put Angular lower on the list because I don’t use it, doesn’t mean it’s any worse than React.
Bless you all ❤️
Can a beginner follow to your full stack course or should he need to go through creative react and redux course first to learn the Full Stack one?
You will be able to follow it!
@@developedbyed thank you sir.
Your Next course, it's an update to your "The Full Stack React Course" or is it brand new course? You are saying you will release it soon. Do you mean in a week, a month or???
You should be specific that the list is solely based on the tools you've used.
Otherwise you'd be misguiding by passing it off as an unopinionated tier list.
Vue is generally better than Nuxt and better maintained in my experience. Also, "Vapor Mode" is coming to Vue, which will be an opt-in way to remove the v-dom and significantly increase performance, inspired by Solid. The best build system Vite also came out of the Vue ecosystem. There are many positives with this framework and it doesn't seem to be slowing down anytime soon.
The main problem is the SPA architecture
@@wojciechosinski5927 why is that a problem?
@@epj-m8sbig problem in terms of SEO. If u don't care then all the way SPA is better
@@ankit.chaurasiaYuo can use Vue in mutipage applications with server side rendering as well. That fix the SEO "problem". Vue is great and very flexible. I think it should be a little bit higher in the list.
This is basically the reason why I keep using Vue. An important thing to consider is the ecosystem. Vue's ecosystem is large enough you can find all kinds of plugins for security, high performance virtualization, etc. Saves you time and money in business.
Putting Vue on the same level as angular and below react is a absurd opinion to have.
well everyone has their own personal opinion, don't they? i do think vue / nuxt is above react / next because I've tested them, but still below remix, remix rocks
@@akbar-sm it's shocking to me that vue isn't as popular as react or angular when it's so much nicer and easier to understand, from syntax to state management
Why?
@@Григорий-п9ц6ц cuz it's better than them
Yep i agree man he put vue too low
Framework selection usually depends on the use case. This tier list doesn't necessarily comply to your company's large scale project or to your futuristic 3D browser game. Always do your own research. Then, select the one that fits your end goal and find the most enjoyable to code amongst the others.
Have a good day and happy coding!
i'd rather fuck around and find out
Gotta say that your jugement on Vue and specially NuxtJS is not pretty honest actually. You can’t just put a meta framework like Nuxt at the same level as React which we all know that Nuxt has really cool features that even Next doesn’t has. And when you do this kind of ranking, you do it in terms of what the tool has TO OFFER and not in terms of what technology do you use. It’s not because you don’t use an specific tool that makes it useless. It’s very important to take into account the pros and cons of each tool otherwise you give a false impression and not showing all the possibilities of each tool and therefore it misleads the people specially for those who want to pick one over another.
So true! NuxtJs has amazing features.
Nuxt is super cool
Yeah absolutely 💯
❤ nuxt
@@devstate like what please, I hesitate between nuxtjs and nextjs😊
Hello! I'm from the ember community, and would like to talk about ember.
It's changed a lot over the years, and it's quite modern.
Everything you said about it isn't true today (was def true in the old days though! (> 5 years ago)), and I'd like to talk about why Ember is good. :D
I'd even be willing to join you on stream if you want!
This would be interesting!
My argument for Angular: you can put 3 mid level devs with a little of experience with the framework on a project and they will be productive within the first sprint because there are only so many ways to do angular apps. Tried the same with React and had a learning curve over basically a quarter. Anecdote? Probably. But haven't regretted having apps in Angular yet.
Vue is cool, but nobody seems to use it where I'm at.
My experience: you can put 4 senior frontend devs into React project and you have a shit code base beyond repair in 4 months because they do not agree on anything, and every junior dev who is not reasonable to listen to experienced dev can be a ticking bomb.
I am not joking. It's stressful as hell to develop the large app in React, and even worse is, that every newbie who can write code a little but knows very very few how things work in javascript or React itself calls themselves junior/mid react dev.
@@marcel5235These senior devs are not really "senior" then
why do you think no one uses vue?
@@epj-m8s these things are fads. Didn't catch on enough people. When it comes to choosing a stack people default to what they know and what they know their teammates know. Vue can't really replace Angular apps, since people pick angular for a specific reason, looking to make a certain kind of architecture for a certain kind of app. So Vue is really only a React contender. But then again, it really isn't because its.ecosystem is small in comparison.
I only ever see people who come from angular to the less opinionated frameworks really praise Vue (other than the Vue purists, naturally) but push comes to shove, 9/10 if it can be done with Vue it can be done with react and there are more jobs for reac, so guess what they are going to choose.
Putting angular and vue on the same tier is a violent hate crime
Gotta say, I love working with Ember. I've not had issues with it being slow (so long as you do things "the Ember way") and you can add on whatever modern tooling you need to it, just like you can do with any other project. It is a highly opinionated framework though, so if you don't like the way it does things, you're better off using something else rather than going off the beaten path.
Majority of the frontend developers chose React and now have buyers remorse which is why they are thrashing anything that is not React related.
I really wonder if people hating on Angular actually used Angular for more than one hour. Angular, out of the box, has a lot of features React did not have for years or still doesn't have in the core library.
I use Vue more and I tried Angular and got me wondering why people talk shit about it.
@@JPilsonSumbo because their brain is too tiny to understand Angular
I remember when Angular 2+ first came out. Everyone hated on it because it made you use TypeScript by default. Now everyone use TypeScript. 😁
I've been using Angular for months and I hate it more everyday
@@akrishnadevotee I've been using it since release and I love it
I think you need to practice more
I'd never heard of Solid before this but it looks fantastic! So glad to hear you plan to cover it more going forward :)
Reminds me my bootcamp instructor how says "nothing you cant build with php symfony" but teaches JS & React :)
Don't let his Vue personal ranking/preference deceive you, Vue is better than 90% of the tools listed here.
@avfr There are a lot of reasons why Vue is better:
- No useEffect() headache
- Vue had "signals" from the start, before they were all the rage
- It outperforms Svelte in some cases and React in all cases, while still using a vDOM
- Vue's creator is currently working on an vDOM-less alternative similar to SoildJS called Vapor Mode
- Components mount once and don't execute their code again and again on re-renders
- Top tier Developer Experience
and the list goes on...
Vue isn’t better than most, hence why it’s usage in the real world is low
Funny it that Svelte is in solid category and SolidJS is in S tier x)
we can feel the joy when he talked about Next Js "Easy baby"
You got the colors all wrong, you have "Avoid" green and S tier red. Should be the exact opposite way around.
For SPA’s Vue would still be my pick. It’s Solid’s reactivity on steroids as you can make any class or object deeply reactive. And the deep reactivity is still opt in since you can just use shallowRef or write a wrapper for them to work exactly like signals.
Nuxt is, eh. A lot of its magic really interferes with tooling and compile time safety.
Angular with signals is looking mighty promising. While I didn’t appreciate it at the time, Angular’s module system is really great for scaling.
bruh nuxt js tier S for me. this 9/10 same with next js
if you fluent in react, next js solutions. and if you fluent in vue js, yeah nuxt js solutions
can't be agree more 👍
Vue should get at least a B or A ranking.
I’m most excited for SvelteKit, I can’t put it at S because there simply isn’t a big enough ecosystem but it’s the one that excites me the most. I would like you to redo your movie app with SvelteKit 1.0 and Skeleton UI
Which parts are you missing in Sveltekit's ecosystem?
You compare next to nuxt and at the same time put nuxt two places lower. Nuxt has most of the next stuff with amazing extra features. I have used both of them for long enough and i will always recommend nuxt above next. You haven’t used it clearly.
Nuxt useless bro
@@lazyengineer007 yeah useless, most of the big companies are switching to nuxt
@@universe_decoded797Which big companies? All I see is everyone adopting next. We moved from angular to next and both developers and clients are extremely happy with performance.
I've tried React, Next, Vue and Nuxt, I prefer Nuxt and my opinion is that Nuxt stands above those 3, personally I hate React and everything based on it... but when I tried Remix, I drop all those 4, and started to like Remix more than every other framework / library...
Even more than svelte?
@@shrek22 personally, yes. but feel free to disagree since everyone has their own taste, right?
I would rank Sveltekit as No.1 meta-framework 😘😍🤩😀👍
No, jQuery is
💯💯
have used angular, react and vue in my 7 years doing front end and must say the one that i most like is vue. Angular is just so weird to work with and i cannot stand working with JSX in react. Vue strikes the perfect balance for me! is just so declarative. you can read a vue component as a beginer with no experience in the framework and its pretty obvius what it does.
Vue is popular in China, although no one uses it in corporate companies.
@@javier.alvarez764 true but as self employed this give me the flexibility to work with the tools i like! :D
@@fueledbycoffee583are you freelancer?
Recently everyone is prefering vue @@javier.alvarez764
Would LOOOVE to see you do a solid js revamp of your already fantastic reactjs course 🤩
Actually Ember is very good. The important thing is that no matter what framework you choose, it must satisfies the needs involved
Something important here for a lot of you is that, regardless of what you like, never take lists like this serious when it comes to jobs. Jobs are mostly just Angular and React. Just learn Angular and React. These cool but useless languages aren't going to help you succeed.
You are right ✅️
These are not "Languages" they are frameworks and Svelte is the most useful thing ever, its a compiler and not a bloated shit thing that does everything in the browser. There are tinkerers and self employed people out there. There are people who just love open source and people who were able to convince their project managers to use Svelte or something else from that lost or projects. Not everyone wants to work for some stupid tech giant where you have to work with the main frameworks. I know nothing about Angular, what is even written with it? Gmail? It seems like from the old days when jQuery was a thing to me. React is for sure what everyone uses but its unnecessarily complex and already many way faster and better ideas out there.
@@EmilyRose0 Gmail, Office, PayPal, Mixer, Udacity to name a few..
Yes. But for some unprivileged people, we need to feed our families. And svelte doesn't put food on my table, angular does. Will only even "try" to learn it if there are enough job posting for it.
Whoever can feel the beauty of OOP would love angular more than other frameworks .... simple makes easier and faster but we can't big large scale application without knowledge of Design Pattern and OOP concept
i m dotnet plus angular dev. despite of beauty of oops , sad thing is learning hard stack is paying less than learning easy thing (react) .. mostly stuck in big companies who are not comfortable to pay aggressive salary..and mostly work is like support..big projects are made once and r on maintenance mode for years..no fun
This video was awesome, not only you ranked but you were comprehensive on why you ranked them in the given way. It was almost like a mini overview on the frameworks.
As a NestJS backend dev, i love Angular. Obsesses with OOP in any kind of way 😁
this this this! i'm a nestjs dev either and looking forward to learning angular now just to have more opportunities
People without backend/oop knowledge will definitely get hard time learning Angular.
Solid also has a meta framework in the works similar to NextJS 👍
May I know what it is, cause I'm literally looking for a SSR framework for my next project and I wanted to try out Solid
@@ncpurge789 it's called Solid Start
Yes, but in this video, all frameworks are stable, Solid Start is in Beta and this is probably why it's not mentioned in the video.
"rectangular"
thanks, my day got a lot better after hearing that
Angular is the matured professional framework, it has simple syntax than react. React is hard to understand, the DX of react is horrible.
React is a child play. When it comes to serious enterprise app development, Angular comes in glory.
React has brought shame to JavaScript community by making web development unnecessarily complicated.
Angular being C is garbage. Angular is an amazing framework. Easy to update and very easy to use.
That’s why it’s a subjective list, you might have it in S tier which is perfectly fine
@Google Personal um.......
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What?
I mean it’s not like Angular needs validation from UA-cam, it’s probably the literal #1 from the customers that matter, businesses 😅 ain’t nobody using AStRO in production unless it’s simple content delivery. Try making a good complex dashboard in Astro and let the tears flow.
If coding for funsies I agree with this tier list, though I’d have svelte in S tier it is clean af
Laravel, Inertia, vue, Jetstream, tailwind... My favorite stack.
Noob choice
@@lazyengineer007 call it noob all you want. I can build out a fully functional SPA with complete API, user control, 2fa, easy form validation, and a fantastic ORM in record time and super responsive. inertia with Ziggy gives you way more control over your routes than nuxt/next and easier to implement middleware. And sanctum kicks ass! What your stack there Mr expert?
@@saneperson59 The way you explained proves my remark.
@@lazyengineer007 you are funny. I fire programmers like you often. Don't need attitude or ego on my teams... And I have great teams
@@saneperson59I don't know what you are talking about. All of the things you mentioned can be done in minutes in next. Drizzle can overshadow any ORM in terms of performance while being extremely DX friendly. Routing is literally the strongest point of next and you have full control over it with next 13 with layouts. Laravel is still great though.
Theres no stronger combo than *Astro+Alpine+Tailwind+Typescript* this is the most fun and enjoyable stack for more interactive websites or simplier web apps. Im huge alpine fan and i would describe it as a mix of vue directives with lifecycle and jquery but in hella fun, good and dx friendly way i ish there would be jobs in it xD. Its mostly used with ssr projects like with django when the server is rendering templates
I'm considering switching to Astro but I feel like I've been on the SPA train for so long that MPA loading between pages can be a bit off-putting.
did you mean less interactive? i thought astro was meant for mostly static websites
Is Astro something good for more complicated page transitions and animations?
@@onta.nicolae I meant that what i said, lol. Static website doesn't means that it has 0 interactivity. Static is mostly about static content that doesn't changes dynamically like fullstack apps do that all... interactivity is not about data change, but about component interactivity, so dropdowns, modals any client side interaction with the website. Static website doesn't changes its content. It displays all how it was written, thats the main difference between static and dynamic webs and by adding htmx or anything else u can make it dynamic one.
@@svnbit8408 watcha mean by "page transitions" ?
I tried react and vue, vue is the clear winner, and about frameworks, I've tried next and nuxt. Nuxt 3 is the best thing i have aver seen. Nuxt and the vue ecosistem it's based on developer experience. So use nuxt if you want to work not play around🤣
Virtual DOM is honestly criminal in constrained web devices and also promotes cow methodology (al least with react) which imo is the worst you can advocate for in an interpreter setting
Angular is the example of “Not everyone can handle the best”
Interesting you put Astro and Solid above Svelte, while SvelteKit actually has more of a following, hit 1.0, and has ISR, form actions, and doesn't use the controversial jsx. Qwik is amazing too. But, to each his own.
Sveltekit is S tier
@@developedbyed But since Sveltekit doesn't have it's own logo, Svelte takes precedence in the tier ranking, so A tier it is
Astro 2.0 you can prerender some routes and not others (pretty much exactly the same as SvelteKit).
And most of those features Solid will get in some form or another in it's meta-framework SolidStart (currently in beta).
As for JSX, I wouldn't say it is controversial these days, especially with tools like TypeScript, esbuild, etc all understanding it out of the box.
If anything, Svelte's syntax is more controversial because it looks like vanilla JS and HTML but it's really not.
I think Qwik will be on S-tier soon as it hits to version 1.0. With Angular/Vue/React, those in my books are equally good and bad. I would not rate one over the other, it really comes to personal and team preference.
What's a tier? Without knowing any js or framework yet, qwik is the way I assumed data was handled and I had no idea how bloated the overhead with hydration is, it just makes sense to me and if there's no middle ground I'm thinking im inclined to learn react right away to get comfy with jsx. Stuff like Astro with any flavor sounds good too, what you think?
@@svnbit8408 huh
You did ember wrong. They have SSR for a long time. Also ember-data, a really good cli, etc.
You forgot Preact, a Solid react framework.
lol I see what you did there :p
Why was SvelteKit excluded, that makes no sense? 😭
Can anyone explain why qwik is jsx exclusively? It seems like an answer to hydration couldn't it be stronger with a compiling type framework like svelte or solid (if I got solid right)
so for all the expert here ....i learned html css(bootstrap) and vanilla js ...wich framework should i learn (i was planing to learn react but now i am confuced)
If you want to land a job, you go with React.
@@erolramacik4738 thank you brother
Angular is lot better than tyrant react. React has made web development unnecessarily complicated.
As someone who’s spent years developing in both I’d respectfully disagree. There’s also a reason why all these new awesome frameworks like solidjs are really close to the react style way of development.
I used React for 1 year and now learned Angular. But feels like Vomitting on Angular. All Third class functionalities. Only reason to use it is its folder structure. I doesn't feel like using Javascript. But with React I can understand JS in a much better way.
Angular deserves to be in a lower tier, it isn’t better than react lol
angular 1 did NOT have typescipt in mind from the beginning. It was totally different. shoulda had 1 and 2 and separate entries.
This would probably my list too, except rate Vue one tier higher and add Eleventy too.
But I've been loving Astro from the start, it sits right in the middle of Next and Eleventy imho.
Preferred combo is Astro + svelte islands nowadays
To be honest, I’m quite disappointed with this sort of attitude.. Why would you rate various tools that you do not have enough experience with? The whole thing is just purely subjective and that makes the video invalid to me.. Putting React/Next on top of other frameworks just for a reason “Well I don’t use them” seems kinda dumb.. Well do not rate it then
VueJS and NuxtJS💚💚
I'd heard of Astro before but I had no idea you could mix it in with other frameworks. That sounds super cool.
hey Ed, will the react fullstack update be avaiable for free for us who purchased the previous strapi/react e-comerce project? Or this is a completely new course unrelated to that
You will get it completely free 🤙
Just one complaint. Solid was a tier higher than Svelte even though they have the same shortcoming.
What's that
As someone who has build whole e-commerce web application using vanilla HTML, CSS and JavaScript will never do that again. Building this large project was a nightmare and maintaning it is another nightmare.
I don't think I will ever do it and will use js frameworks in future. Before that I didn't knew the advantages of these frameworks
The Quasar Framework is awesome aswell
Isn't it a cool version of vue
@@araputrevor5103 It is based on Vue, yes
it's flexible with mobile web app.
You forgot one of the most stable, fast and user friendly Javascript frameworks: Aurelia
Aurelia 2 beta was released january 2023
Vue is somewhere between S and A, probably A .. yep, nothing from JS world deserves S, only Astro maybe.
Buy yeah, you HUGELY underestimated Vue. I've done work in all those except ember, Lit and Qwik and I really wanted to like, react, than svelte, than solid, and Next and Astro and Nuxt but real SOLID here is Vue :D (and Next)
PS: it's aitch not haitch! 😅😇
IF you have to pick.
Sold Start or NextJS? (Why?)
What about BlitzJS, is based on NextJS but much better support even for database! I real love BlitzJS!
Ember has improved massively, it has a good CI and it's very intuitive, and very quick to build a frontend ontop of an API
I don't really like server side rendering, is like going back to php or jsp, do you have an example where SSR is good to use it? I think you review is really good, qwik is underestimated though
SEO game dude.
Are you by any chance related to James Montemagno from Microsoft?
Vue is awesome, progressive because of solid reactivity and eco system. Vue with Nuxt is my first priority.
is SOLID js and Quick production ready?
Svelte ecosystem is small because.. you don't have to create wrapper or rewrite everything just to be adopted into some framework XD
React is much worse than Vue, limited, slow, messy with over-rendered subcomponents, and fast-evolving "the right way to do", from class components to functional components then to hooks, and now toward server components. Do you like to rewrite your code every few years?
Vue has the best UI frameworks with many mature and fast UI components ready to use, which saves a lot of time. One of the main reasons to use Vue is the Quasar Framework. It has a lot of fast and mature UI components and can generate the code for web SPA, PWA, SSR, Desktop, iOS, Android etc.
Adding Next and Nuxt to that comparison does not make too much sense since they are only a kind of meta-framework over React and Vue. In the same way, you should consider the Svelte Kit as an independent "framework" for Svelte :-D
it's awesome.. Amazing synopsis.. thank u from indonesia 👍
As UI developer using Angular, I find it horrible. Lack of big community support, working with Angular material feels like working with Bootstrap back in a day. Implementing animations is a nightmare too, no proper SSR support
omg your energy is so beautiful! immediately made me smile :)
Great video like always. Why you dont use Trpc over Rest?
How is going Angular Ts?
NextJS is flying high indeed. Non stopping.
All of these JS MVCs made the front end development a mess and feel sorry for anybody that has to maintain all of this when it becomes legacy.
I would disagree that it has made a mess. Before these frameworks there was JQuery hacking everywhere and it was a nightmare to maintain. At lest the modern frameworks promote best practices like factory, service, router, module patterns making code reuse much easier.
what about Remix ?
A or S for me
@@developedbyed How does it compare to NextJS for full-stack web apps?
Where is Remix??
vue the best
Me the best ✌️
@@ygjt76v0-----ewww
I agree, but a lot of industries right now are using react more than vue
" Don't Be A Nerd . . ."
- developedbyed
just bought the The Creative React and Redux Course, and I'm loving it, but it really needs to updated..
Unless Svelte isn't in the S tier, I'm not subscribing.
Anything that uses JSX or relies heavily on hooks is a piece of garbage.
Why would I want hooks if the framework can handle updates for me?
@developedbyed you forgot to write about svelte in the description
FIIIIRST !! your're so amazing ed, thank you so much for everything.
Whats your favorite tool if you are just a solo dev?
How is next S tier while Nuxt is B. Nuxt does everything next does and more. Global state it does that as well as a convenient useFetch. With nuxt you don't even have to import components/composables anymore. Did you even create a project with nuxt b4 making this video?
Are you planning to update or add new things on your React course ?
Thanks Ed, I think now I will learn next and svelte after this But I think I would like vue to be like at A buy as you said, it's subjective.
vue below react? 😮
This guy hasn't used Vue before. he's just ranking what he's comfortable writing. To me, I've used most of those frameworks until I got to use vue js. Vue to me is the best of all and should be ranked among the best. React just codes just resemble a glorified normal JavaScript function that returns html.
If you could please do a tutorial of Qwikjs. Since it’s so similar to react I think doing one of your reactjs apps but in Qwik.
Now what should we learn? Solid Js or svelte ? When did SolidJs came when people were talking about svelte? Hyping every shiny frameworks for nothing
Interesting rating! Thanks for the share.
tell me one framework for most creative type of work and for mostly development..not like support
IMO qwik is the only framework that is significantly different from the others. Resuming is way better than hydration.
The thing with these ranking videos is that they are totally biased and opinionated, not a comparison. Its fine I like to know the preferences of other people and investigate by myself the interesting ones, but the fact you ranked angular as a c tier because you "don't use" and ranked a new experimental thing with much less features, that you also don't use and don't know what is going to be, two tiers higher than a proved solid framework explicit shows what I said, is completed biased list. With that said, I like your explanations about your reasons and experiences that are precious; thanks for sharing.
I'd rank Sveltekit as No.1
Why everybody saying that Angular is difficult to learn ? In my opinion it's even easier than React with its architecture and "everything in one place". There is no need to learn additional libraries or so called frameworks like Next, Solid etc, which dramatically reduces learning curve to get a job. Like you can basically read Angular docs and some of the most used RxJs operators and you are ready to go, but when using React, first you need to learn React docs, than you need to learn a dozen of libraries for styles, routing, state management and anything else. Is it really that difficult to learn Angular ?
I also feel the same. But after I learned Angular I hate it. React is much much better to code. Coding with Angular feels like unnecessarily changing Real DOM everytime, even for small change and There are unnecessary Life-cycle methods, no proper way of using it mentioned any where.
OOP thats why
@@4444-c4s Angular v16 will resolve the problem you mentioned
@@4444-c4s looks like you didin't used angular- there is stuff like onPush, trackFn and other stuff. Mosty ppl dont use all lifecycle hooks, and how they can be unnecessary? if you dont want to use specific one, just dont use it
Have you seen Nuxt3 bro , naah! its pretty good man put it higher
Ok there's some recency bias here but great video overall but I would have loved if you included sveltekit as well
Solid also as SolidStart which does the SSR stuff that Next does.
Really helpful! Thanks man