Canadian woman here. So glad you talked about Dr. Morgentaler! He's basically a household name here, but not many people outside of Canada have heard of him. Also it's hilarious hearing three guys from the UK talk about Canadian stuff. Yeah, the Queen of Canada is the same queen as yours. And I've never heard anyone pronounce Ontario like that lmao. Btw if you're looking for another Canada-centric topic, Pierre Trudeau, aside from being Justin's father, was a pretty fascinating guy who was responsible for overturning Canada's anti-gay laws in the 60s, famously saying "there's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation."
BIG agree! Genderfluid here (they/she) and for once I wasn’t acutely reminded of the ever present dysphoria that lurks within medical topics. I freaking love this podcast
And so cleverly used in the beginning - no anti inclusive language person can say they’re “not American, they’re a woman” cause there are plenty of American women and if they’re a woman who’s not American then he clearly wasn’t talking about them 😏
I know that Corry's boyfriend, Noah, is trans, and the show is also friends with Dr. Jaime Raines, who is trans as well, and both of them document their respective journeys on YT.
I think even putting all judgements on abortion itself aside, even if you think it's an abomination or anything like that, you have to realise they're gonna happen anyway, and it's better to give people the ability to get it done safely by medical professionals in a healthy and clean environment.
I mean, in the US specifically, the people who are anti-choice are typically the same people who are against sex ed in schools. Because knowing condoms exist corrupts the delicate minds of teenagers I guess? Never mind the facts that show that knowing about contraception (and enthusiastic consent and STIs etc etc) actually delays the first sexual experience, makes that sexual experience more likely to not result in STIs, unwanted pregnancies (and thus fewer abortions, something they claim to want), and also less likely for people to strongly regret that first experience because they weren't ready for it for example. Why would they want to stop people from knowing about sex and contraception? Is it to control the bodies of women and AFAB people? Nah, that can't be it! It's a mystery for the ages.
Really important points here! In the eras when abortion has been outlawed, desperate people were dying from back-alley operations of a horrifying non-medical nature, and poisoning themselves in last-ditch attempts to terminate pregnancy. And in the eras where contraception and fertility-control knowledge has been suppressed, many women have basically constantly been having kids until they died of exhaustion or childbed complications! The people advocating a return to those dark conditions are, in most cases, not those who'll be most affected? Either they have no uteruses, or they're rich enough to get things done safely on the sly, or they have a religious preference for repeated pregnancy themselves. It's a deep failure of empathy on their parts to shout so loud about fetus rights and ignore the practical effects on the people who're actually at risk of getting pregnant.
Small addendum, after the morning after pill there is still emergency contraception possible. My methods failed, and since it was a Sunday the pharmacy I could access was closed (there was another pharmacy available in another town, but I didn't have any kind of transport to get there, that is also a great reason why reducing funding for clinics and pharmacies so they can't be open all the time is terrible). So I ended up calling a clinic to ask about what my options were. They told me that I could get the copper coil still as an emergency contraception. :) Also, an abortion is the same thing as a miscarriage. Miscarriages are also called a spontaneous abortion. Abortions are also an essential part of healthcare if someone has a miscarriage. Especially later on in the pregnancy, the fetus and accouterments don't just go away on their own, and carrying a dead and decaying fetus is not just fine. People die from sepsis. People have died quite recently from sepsis because doctors in countries with restrictive abortion laws were afraid to remove the dead fetus in fear of legal ramifications.
I used to be very against abortion (like when I was a kid who had been told it was murder), but once I was old enough to realize the bodily autonomy thing, that even if a fetus was a whole living person, that they still don't have a right to your body, it all made sense to me. There is no good argument to be made that refutes that. If someone is dying from kidney failure, and I am the only human on earth who is a donor match for them, and even if I am perfectly healthy and able to donate a kidney, they still cannot force me. So, why do they think it makes sense to force someone to donate their uterus? Unfortunately, the people making these decisions are wealthy enough that it won't affect them, and they use it to appeal to a religious majority who is generally very misinformed on the subject.
"that they still don't have a right to your body" I'll use a hypothetical to see if you believe in this principle. So if you surgically put a 1 month old baby, into your body, attached tubes to them etc, so that they were using your body (And assume that they would die, if you took them out of your body in the next 6 months) Should you be allowed to legally kill them ? If you answer is yes, please explain why, if it is no. You then understand, that just because someone is using your body, it shouldn't give you the legal right to kill them. So my next question would be, do you feel that when you have consensual sex, and a pregnancy occurs, that you put that human life in your body ? If yes, then you understand why abortion outside of grape and a diagnosed risk to the mothers life, should be illegal, just as it should be in my hypothetical in the first paragraph. If you answer is no, then I can explain why you are incorrect.
@@thepubquiz3198 by that logic if you don't donate all of your organs when you die, you're killing a lot of people. However, you should not be forced to become an organ donor. Even though people think you SHOULD be an organ donor, it would be awful to force someone into it. The solution to decreasing abortion is advocating for better access to contraception, not making abortion illegal.
Hi guys! Sociology student here! I am pretty sure in April 2022 the no-fault divorce act was passed! You can now get a divorce on the grounds of an ‘irretrievable breakdown’
I am pro choice, I myself had to have an abortion when I was far far too young to have a child. I don't regret my decision and i think every person should have this right. The law on abortion in america actually broke my heart. It should be treated as a basic right. It's a medical proceedure. Thank you guys for creating this episode because it's one of the most important social issues that are not being handled right.
As someone who has had an abortion early enough to have a medical abortion but chose the surgical option under general anaesthetic, i can explain why its an option. I wouldve been about 6 weeks maximum so definitely early enough for a medical one, however the medical one is like a really heavy and painful period, and potentially extremely traumatic. I didnt want to be sat on the toilet for days in pain potentially with it or even have complications. So the other two options were surgical under local or surgical under general. You are only out for a very short time and the recovery is about an hour, its day surgery and you are out very quickly my mum waited out in the car for me. You weren't allowed anyone else in and this was many many years before covid. That was probably the hardest part because it was a bit scary. I chose general because i didnt want to hear any of the suction or be aware of what was happening. Absolutely the right choice and i have a 14 month old now, many many years later that was absolutely a wanted pregnancy and it was still absolutely tough mentally and physically, even though i was in the best mental state i had been in my life previous to the pregnancy. It was still a tough decision at the time because all of your biology is screaming at you to have a baby (thats how i felt anyway) but it was still definitely the best decision for everyone involved and im glad i now have my amazingly awesome daughter at a time when i can actually give her the best version of myself and i was 28 when she was born versus like 20 or 21 with my abortion).
iirc the legalisation in Ireland/Northern Ireland was very recent and it used to be completely illegal, indeed. Interesting how it ended up happening in a way that made the legislation there more encompassing than in England/Scotland/Wales.
With relation to the Republic of Ireland, while on paper abortion rights are better than in the UK, a vast number of people still travel to the UK due to lack of providers and waiting lists
The differentiations between hospitals and clinics and further restrictions on clinics is how a lot of Planned Parenthoods were and are unable to provide abortion care. So, all the bells and whistles of a hospital that would never be used or needed. It just goes to show that laws are highly flawed due to the incompetence of lawmakers. I hate that personal morals are treated as blanket morals to be placed within these laws to further harm others in your country or community. Illegality doesn't equate to immorality.
But why ? At what point do you think our life begins, conception, 5 weeks into gestation,10,30, after birth ? And if that doesn't matter to you, why should we legally be allowed to get an abortion, even if you do consider us a human life whilst in the womb ?
@@thepubquiz3198 Why what? Your question is super vaguely worded. Let's use a great example. Say, you need dialysis because your kidneys are failing. You'll need it for a few months only though, and using a machine is not working. What will work is hooking you up to a random person who will play your dialysis machine. Are you allowed to force people who don't want to do it, to be hooked up to you? Can you just point at a random person and go, you, you will sustain my life for a few months! No you can't do that, because hijacking another person's body without their permission is IMMORAL, also illegal. You are a human life though! Why aren't we allowed to save your human life by hijacking someone else's life, it's only borrowing the use of someone else's life for a few months! Surely it's fine to just use someone else's body for your own devices!?
@@AnnekeOosterinkOkay, so you didn't answer my question of when life begins, so we will have to go off it beginning at conception for now. So there are several differences between your example, and a pregnancy. Yet to see what I need to explain to you, I will ask you one question to start with. If you have sex, and get pregnant, do you believe you put that human life into your body ? If your answer is just, well we are not a human life at conception, well that just brings us back to my original question when do you believe a human life begins ? If your answer is no, I can explain to you why that is incorrect. If your answer is yes, I can then explain to you the difference between the example you gave in your reply, and a pregnancy.
@@thepubquiz3198 this is a silly question to ask because everyone has different answers There is no scientific evidence of when “life” starts Some think it’s at conception Some think it’s when the heart starts to beat Some think it’s when breathing begins Etc etc As a pro-choice person myself Idc when life supposedly begins If you wanna have an abortion at 2 weeks fine If you wanna have one at 7 weeks Fine If you wanna have one at 12 weeks Fine There are laws in place that prevent abortions past certain stages If you want an abortion Get one
On the point that was made about abortions being possibly unavailable to people who aren’t women: here in Norway as a trans guy I don't have access to the free contraception cis women have up until 25 purely on a technicality they haven't ironed out yet. Fun times.
I'm only 5 minutes in and just wanted to mention- abortion access in Ireland is abysmal. Im from the north and it was fully illegal until 2020, and since then we haven't had any access actually implemented so people still have to travel to England for them. also without getting too political, one of the two main parties in the north basically threw their toys out of the pram soon after this so we have no government, no access to abortions, limited healthcare, extreme wealth disparity and they still get payed more than any working person would make in their life :)
18:15 I think that some people don't want to take the abortion pill bcs of the second effects like your cycle changing, your breast growing.. also the mental effects. So from my point of view maybe some people just want to get the surgery so they don't have to go through all of that and as you said before they just don't want to see the fetus, like- that's not very pleasant
@Andrew Campbell every sperm is a potential life. How many millions have you killed? Seriously grow up and do some research. You're going to have to be way more inventive than that to egg me on. Get it? Egg? 🤦♀️
Pro-choice and also as a person w/ uterus, there are few non-uterus havers besides the Sci Guys who I would trust more with with such topics. Well done 💯
My understanding is that the abortion and no-fault divorce laws in England, Wales and Scotland are so restrictive (can divorce just because you want to after living separately for 2 years if you both want to, 5 years if only one of you) because they’re so old. They were really progressive laws when they were first introduced but nowadays they really need updating and they haven’t been so far.
US perspective of someone who temped at a law office dedicated to reproductive rights - a lot of activists and advocates are asking people to say they are pro abortion because at this point pro choice feels sort of wishy washy, sort of wanting to stay out of it either way. If you are pro abortion you are pro people having access to that particular kind of medical care, not that you think everyone should have one.
if a law resists necessary measures for someone to survive, it is not a good law. laws should help people, not restrict them and degrade their quality of life.
i have an issue which means i tend to go through very extreme levels of pain cause of cramps, and i now have painkillers for it at last. but the process of GETTING those medications was a challenge in itself. one doctor tried to tell me that the reaction (pain) was heightened due to dysphoria. although it might be true i guess, thats the sort of thing they pin it on all the time and it puts a shit ton of people in danger. trans reproductive health is pretty shit here from what ive seen. there are some legends out there, but a lot of them just never take you seriously. i cant imagine how much that would be displayed if youre wanting an abortion. dear god.
While I am pro choice, for a science podcast, this was very bias. Although I disagree with the other side, I can see their points and I don’t think they’re are stupid or bad people just because they hold those views. Maybe I’m just being fussy; it was a really interesting podcast, but when discussing controversial topics, I like to try to have respect for the other side and to try to understand their points of view. This can be done while still completely disagreeing. But thanks again you three for a really interesting discussion 🙂
In regards to divorce, the new law was passed in regards to getting a divorce without reasoning. Someone can now get a divorce without stating a reason
@@SciGuys i guess misgendering would be more correct! im a transmasc who kind of recently had a pregnancy scare, and as cool as it was to hear about this stuff, hearing things like "we're aware that we are talking about a man in a discussion about abortion" sort of upset me a bit as there are many masc alligned people/men who are affected. although its a great episode! im a bit sensitive to that stuff. apologies that my comment is really rude! the recent discussions over roe v wade in the usa did sort of make me more on-alert to terms like "people who are not women shouldnt have an opinion", im aware that you were trying and i do appreciate it, especially things like changing words around in original sources to be more inclusive! it means a lot.
@Andrew Campbell Student of psychology, studying developmental psychology here. Life is separated by several stages and substages. The prenatal stage (conception to birth) is sorted into 3 substages. Germinal Period is the 1st 2 weeks. The embriotic Period starts next and last about 8 weeks, during which the organism is called an embryo. At the end of this period (aprox. after 8 weeks), begins the Fetal Period. From here on out the organism is called a fetus until the start of the birth process. Right after birth, you get the Neonate (AKA newborn) for 2 - 4 weeks. Then, 2-4 weeks after birth, viola, you get a baby.
@Andrew Campbell Well if you think abortion is murder I’m gonna assume you would want to make all abortion illegal. This will only result in people having abortions the unsafe way which in turn poses physical and mental well being issues for the person who is pregnant. ‘Each year, 4.7-13.2% of maternal deaths can be attributed to unsafe abortion (3). In developed regions, it is estimated that 30 women die for every 100 000 unsafe abortions. In developing regions, that number rises to 220 deaths per 100 000 unsafe abortions (2). Estimates from 2012 indicate that in developing countries alone, 7 million women per year were treated in hospital facilities for complications of unsafe abortion (4). Physical health risks associated with unsafe abortion include: incomplete abortion (failure to remove or expel all pregnancy tissue from the uterus); haemorrhage (heavy bleeding); infection; uterine perforation (caused when the uterus is pierced by a sharp object); and damage to the genital tract and internal organs as a consequence of inserting dangerous objects into the vagina or anus.’ (www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/abortion) What will you personally get from this abortion? Abortion going to be carried out regardless of whether it is illegal or not, Making it legal would reduce unnecessary deaths. If you have a uterus and are personally against abortion than great for you don’t get an abortion but why limit other people they don’t effect your life. Pro choice is not Pro abortion, it just the freedom to choose what YOU get to do with YOUR own body and freedom to do what you want to do with your own body is a basic human right. Keeping abortion legal and working with society to get people to not need abortion in the first place is the goal of the Pro choice movement. One of the steps we need to take is to have good SexEd and teach men not to rape. Thank you for listening and have a good day. :)
spotify sux. pandora is better. ran into someone on okcupid who's like aggressively against mlm being pro-choice and like... cissexist and misogynistic much but also wtf? this is irrelevant. obviously I believe in basic human rights and am thusly pro-choice.
They're called women. But why would having or not having a particular body part be relevant? Obviously people can't just do anything they want based on what body parts they have. Does having a uterus change the fact that abortion kills an innocent human being?
Great show guys. The story about the Jewish Doctor was so interesting. I do however disagree with a few things you talked about. My ex-wife & I adopted a new born several years ago. My daughter is now 20 years old. Her birth mom is Catholic & chose to have the baby, then to give it up for adoption. We were so glad she did. We were unable to have kids, so this was an answer to prayer. So, with that all said, I am pro life, except in cases of rape, incest or the life of the mother is in danger. I am equally pro choice. The woman has the absolute right to choose what is best for her. No, I am not bi-polar, just a human being who wants other human beings to make their own choices. Also, I live in Texas where abortion is illegal no matter what. If you believe in God, don't forget to pray for me & all the women in Texas. Keep up the great work guys.
So what do you consider we do with the non-aborted children than? If you only agree with abortion for “rape” and “incest” than what about children who are being born with incapable, or poor parents than cannot provide the correct care, because of mental illness, disability or financial issues? Many argue for forcing people to give birth and putting the kid up for adoption, but foster homes are not only completely underfunded, and overpopulated, a majority of kids in the foster system will be abused, never have a family, and not be properly taken care of. Not everyone is religious like you. The name “pro-life” is extremely misleading when the policies you people push onto everyone not only force children into extremely dangerous and negative situations, but there are also many females who haven’t been able to receive medical treatment for emergencies, because the fetus has a heartbeat, so preserving her health could get the doctors jailed. There are women bleeding out in hospitals and being forced to give birth to stillborn children, because what you and the other “pro-torture” people in politics still fail to specify what “emergencies” give someone a right to an abortion. Your policies that claim to preserve life, shove children into a system where all care for life disappears once the child is born. Your religion and prayers mean absolutely nothing in a discussion about human rights and bodily autonomy.
@@nyumyu4265 You’re barking up the wrong tree bud. As I stated earlier, I am totally in favor and support a woman’s right to choose. It is her body her choice. In my personal story that I shared, adoption worked out for us, and I’m thankful it did. It may not be for everybody and that’s OK. The Supreme Court should have left Roe v. Wade alone. I am totally opposed to any state who denies a woman the constitutional right to choose abortion. You might want to go back and reread what I wrote.
@@matthewking8806 you literally said “I am pro life, except in cases of rape and incest” in your comment. I am only pointing out the irony in that statement
@@nyumyu4265 Did you go onto read that I said I'm equally pro choice? Irony to you, but not to me. In the end, it is her choice, it's her constitutional right to decide.
Are you pro-choice or anti-choice?
Pro-choice
pro-choice :)
I’m stealing “anti-choice“ omg its genius LMAO
Pro-choice
Pro of course
Canadian woman here. So glad you talked about Dr. Morgentaler! He's basically a household name here, but not many people outside of Canada have heard of him. Also it's hilarious hearing three guys from the UK talk about Canadian stuff. Yeah, the Queen of Canada is the same queen as yours. And I've never heard anyone pronounce Ontario like that lmao.
Btw if you're looking for another Canada-centric topic, Pierre Trudeau, aside from being Justin's father, was a pretty fascinating guy who was responsible for overturning Canada's anti-gay laws in the 60s, famously saying "there's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation."
I really appreciate the inclusive language from the perspective of a trans guy. One day y’all’s podcast is gonna top the charts.
BIG agree! Genderfluid here (they/she) and for once I wasn’t acutely reminded of the ever present dysphoria that lurks within medical topics. I freaking love this podcast
SAME!! I'm also a trans guy and it's really difficult for me to look at medical related things without feeling very dysphoric
It already tops my charts.
And so cleverly used in the beginning - no anti inclusive language person can say they’re “not American, they’re a woman” cause there are plenty of American women and if they’re a woman who’s not American then he clearly wasn’t talking about them 😏
I know that Corry's boyfriend, Noah, is trans, and the show is also friends with Dr. Jaime Raines, who is trans as well, and both of them document their respective journeys on YT.
I think even putting all judgements on abortion itself aside, even if you think it's an abomination or anything like that, you have to realise they're gonna happen anyway, and it's better to give people the ability to get it done safely by medical professionals in a healthy and clean environment.
I mean, in the US specifically, the people who are anti-choice are typically the same people who are against sex ed in schools. Because knowing condoms exist corrupts the delicate minds of teenagers I guess? Never mind the facts that show that knowing about contraception (and enthusiastic consent and STIs etc etc) actually delays the first sexual experience, makes that sexual experience more likely to not result in STIs, unwanted pregnancies (and thus fewer abortions, something they claim to want), and also less likely for people to strongly regret that first experience because they weren't ready for it for example.
Why would they want to stop people from knowing about sex and contraception? Is it to control the bodies of women and AFAB people? Nah, that can't be it! It's a mystery for the ages.
Really important points here! In the eras when abortion has been outlawed, desperate people were dying from back-alley operations of a horrifying non-medical nature, and poisoning themselves in last-ditch attempts to terminate pregnancy. And in the eras where contraception and fertility-control knowledge has been suppressed, many women have basically constantly been having kids until they died of exhaustion or childbed complications!
The people advocating a return to those dark conditions are, in most cases, not those who'll be most affected? Either they have no uteruses, or they're rich enough to get things done safely on the sly, or they have a religious preference for repeated pregnancy themselves.
It's a deep failure of empathy on their parts to shout so loud about fetus rights and ignore the practical effects on the people who're actually at risk of getting pregnant.
Small addendum, after the morning after pill there is still emergency contraception possible. My methods failed, and since it was a Sunday the pharmacy I could access was closed (there was another pharmacy available in another town, but I didn't have any kind of transport to get there, that is also a great reason why reducing funding for clinics and pharmacies so they can't be open all the time is terrible). So I ended up calling a clinic to ask about what my options were. They told me that I could get the copper coil still as an emergency contraception. :)
Also, an abortion is the same thing as a miscarriage. Miscarriages are also called a spontaneous abortion. Abortions are also an essential part of healthcare if someone has a miscarriage. Especially later on in the pregnancy, the fetus and accouterments don't just go away on their own, and carrying a dead and decaying fetus is not just fine. People die from sepsis. People have died quite recently from sepsis because doctors in countries with restrictive abortion laws were afraid to remove the dead fetus in fear of legal ramifications.
I used to be very against abortion (like when I was a kid who had been told it was murder), but once I was old enough to realize the bodily autonomy thing, that even if a fetus was a whole living person, that they still don't have a right to your body, it all made sense to me. There is no good argument to be made that refutes that. If someone is dying from kidney failure, and I am the only human on earth who is a donor match for them, and even if I am perfectly healthy and able to donate a kidney, they still cannot force me. So, why do they think it makes sense to force someone to donate their uterus? Unfortunately, the people making these decisions are wealthy enough that it won't affect them, and they use it to appeal to a religious majority who is generally very misinformed on the subject.
"that they still don't have a right to your body"
I'll use a hypothetical to see if you believe in this principle. So if you surgically put a 1 month old baby, into your body, attached tubes to them etc, so that they were using your body (And assume that they would die, if you took them out of your body in the next 6 months) Should you be allowed to legally kill them ? If you answer is yes, please explain why, if it is no. You then understand, that just because someone is using your body, it shouldn't give you the legal right to kill them.
So my next question would be, do you feel that when you have consensual sex, and a pregnancy occurs, that you put that human life in your body ? If yes, then you understand why abortion outside of grape and a diagnosed risk to the mothers life, should be illegal, just as it should be in my hypothetical in the first paragraph. If you answer is no, then I can explain why you are incorrect.
@@thepubquiz3198 by that logic if you don't donate all of your organs when you die, you're killing a lot of people. However, you should not be forced to become an organ donor. Even though people think you SHOULD be an organ donor, it would be awful to force someone into it. The solution to decreasing abortion is advocating for better access to contraception, not making abortion illegal.
Hi guys! Sociology student here! I am pretty sure in April 2022 the no-fault divorce act was passed! You can now get a divorce on the grounds of an ‘irretrievable breakdown’
I am pro choice, I myself had to have an abortion when I was far far too young to have a child. I don't regret my decision and i think every person should have this right. The law on abortion in america actually broke my heart. It should be treated as a basic right. It's a medical proceedure. Thank you guys for creating this episode because it's one of the most important social issues that are not being handled right.
Then you should’ve got pregnant to begin with, A horse is a romance no justification for it.
As someone who has had an abortion early enough to have a medical abortion but chose the surgical option under general anaesthetic, i can explain why its an option. I wouldve been about 6 weeks maximum so definitely early enough for a medical one, however the medical one is like a really heavy and painful period, and potentially extremely traumatic. I didnt want to be sat on the toilet for days in pain potentially with it or even have complications. So the other two options were surgical under local or surgical under general. You are only out for a very short time and the recovery is about an hour, its day surgery and you are out very quickly my mum waited out in the car for me. You weren't allowed anyone else in and this was many many years before covid. That was probably the hardest part because it was a bit scary. I chose general because i didnt want to hear any of the suction or be aware of what was happening.
Absolutely the right choice and i have a 14 month old now, many many years later that was absolutely a wanted pregnancy and it was still absolutely tough mentally and physically, even though i was in the best mental state i had been in my life previous to the pregnancy. It was still a tough decision at the time because all of your biology is screaming at you to have a baby (thats how i felt anyway) but it was still definitely the best decision for everyone involved and im glad i now have my amazingly awesome daughter at a time when i can actually give her the best version of myself and i was 28 when she was born versus like 20 or 21 with my abortion).
Thank you so much for sharing your story 💙
iirc the legalisation in Ireland/Northern Ireland was very recent and it used to be completely illegal, indeed. Interesting how it ended up happening in a way that made the legislation there more encompassing than in England/Scotland/Wales.
With relation to the Republic of Ireland, while on paper abortion rights are better than in the UK, a vast number of people still travel to the UK due to lack of providers and waiting lists
The differentiations between hospitals and clinics and further restrictions on clinics is how a lot of Planned Parenthoods were and are unable to provide abortion care. So, all the bells and whistles of a hospital that would never be used or needed. It just goes to show that laws are highly flawed due to the incompetence of lawmakers. I hate that personal morals are treated as blanket morals to be placed within these laws to further harm others in your country or community. Illegality doesn't equate to immorality.
You guys should do a follow up with this topic but have mama dr Jones as a guest!!
Omg mama dr jones on any gynaecological episodes honestly!
I'm pro-choice, no matter the reason someone wants an abortion they should be able to seek one out.
Agreed
But why ? At what point do you think our life begins, conception, 5 weeks into gestation,10,30, after birth ? And if that doesn't matter to you, why should we legally be allowed to get an abortion, even if you do consider us a human life whilst in the womb ?
@@thepubquiz3198 Why what? Your question is super vaguely worded.
Let's use a great example. Say, you need dialysis because your kidneys are failing. You'll need it for a few months only though, and using a machine is not working. What will work is hooking you up to a random person who will play your dialysis machine. Are you allowed to force people who don't want to do it, to be hooked up to you? Can you just point at a random person and go, you, you will sustain my life for a few months! No you can't do that, because hijacking another person's body without their permission is IMMORAL, also illegal. You are a human life though! Why aren't we allowed to save your human life by hijacking someone else's life, it's only borrowing the use of someone else's life for a few months! Surely it's fine to just use someone else's body for your own devices!?
@@AnnekeOosterinkOkay, so you didn't answer my question of when life begins, so we will have to go off it beginning at conception for now.
So there are several differences between your example, and a pregnancy. Yet to see what I need to explain to you, I will ask you one question to start with. If you have sex, and get pregnant, do you believe you put that human life into your body ?
If your answer is just, well we are not a human life at conception, well that just brings us back to my original question when do you believe a human life begins ?
If your answer is no, I can explain to you why that is incorrect. If your answer is yes, I can then explain to you the difference between the example you gave in your reply, and a pregnancy.
@@thepubquiz3198 this is a silly question to ask because everyone has different answers
There is no scientific evidence of when “life” starts
Some think it’s at conception
Some think it’s when the heart starts to beat
Some think it’s when breathing begins
Etc etc
As a pro-choice person myself
Idc when life supposedly begins
If you wanna have an abortion at 2 weeks fine
If you wanna have one at 7 weeks
Fine
If you wanna have one at 12 weeks
Fine
There are laws in place that prevent abortions past certain stages
If you want an abortion
Get one
On the point that was made about abortions being possibly unavailable to people who aren’t women: here in Norway as a trans guy I don't have access to the free contraception cis women have up until 25 purely on a technicality they haven't ironed out yet. Fun times.
I'm only 5 minutes in and just wanted to mention- abortion access in Ireland is abysmal. Im from the north and it was fully illegal until 2020, and since then we haven't had any access actually implemented so people still have to travel to England for them.
also without getting too political, one of the two main parties in the north basically threw their toys out of the pram soon after this so we have no government, no access to abortions, limited healthcare, extreme wealth disparity and they still get payed more than any working person would make in their life :)
18:15 I think that some people don't want to take the abortion pill bcs of the second effects like your cycle changing, your breast growing.. also the mental effects.
So from my point of view maybe some people just want to get the surgery so they don't have to go through all of that and as you said before they just don't want to see the fetus, like- that's not very pleasant
I'm pro-choice, why should other people decide over bodies that aren't theirs. It's my body and thus my choice.
Sedation options are completely at the whim of the clinic. Full anesthetic was never offered to me or anyone I'm aware of in my area
This is such an amazing episode, thank you guys!
slight remark: the subtitles are a bit behind on when its actually said. But great video regardless!
listening to the well deserved roast of my unfortunate government (usa)....I wanna laugh and cry.
@Andrew Campbell every sperm is a potential life. How many millions have you killed? Seriously grow up and do some research. You're going to have to be way more inventive than that to egg me on. Get it? Egg? 🤦♀️
Pro-choice and also as a person w/ uterus, there are few non-uterus havers besides the Sci Guys who I would trust more with with such topics. Well done 💯
My understanding is that the abortion and no-fault divorce laws in England, Wales and Scotland are so restrictive (can divorce just because you want to after living separately for 2 years if you both want to, 5 years if only one of you) because they’re so old. They were really progressive laws when they were first introduced but nowadays they really need updating and they haven’t been so far.
US perspective of someone who temped at a law office dedicated to reproductive rights - a lot of activists and advocates are asking people to say they are pro abortion because at this point pro choice feels sort of wishy washy, sort of wanting to stay out of it either way. If you are pro abortion you are pro people having access to that particular kind of medical care, not that you think everyone should have one.
if a law resists necessary measures for someone to survive, it is not a good law. laws should help people, not restrict them and degrade their quality of life.
😄this week we are talking about😄
😐a basic human right😐
could’ve have put it in a better way xox
also pro-choice !!
i have an issue which means i tend to go through very extreme levels of pain cause of cramps, and i now have painkillers for it at last. but the process of GETTING those medications was a challenge in itself. one doctor tried to tell me that the reaction (pain) was heightened due to dysphoria. although it might be true i guess, thats the sort of thing they pin it on all the time and it puts a shit ton of people in danger.
trans reproductive health is pretty shit here from what ive seen. there are some legends out there, but a lot of them just never take you seriously. i cant imagine how much that would be displayed if youre wanting an abortion. dear god.
1:01:16 unfortunately that person is Greg Abbott, the governor of Texas. They have a 6 week abortion ban.
Thank you for this video
The right to security of person. We need to update the US Constitution to include that.
While I am pro choice, for a science podcast, this was very bias.
Although I disagree with the other side, I can see their points and I don’t think they’re are stupid or bad people just because they hold those views.
Maybe I’m just being fussy; it was a really interesting podcast, but when discussing controversial topics, I like to try to have respect for the other side and to try to understand their points of view. This can be done while still completely disagreeing.
But thanks again you three for a really interesting discussion 🙂
29:45 I believe the name is חנוך. Chanoch when ch is in like the end of yacht.
In regards to divorce, the new law was passed in regards to getting a divorce without reasoning. Someone can now get a divorce without stating a reason
I am a pro.
I dont know how but i only just subbed
pro choice
I’m pro-choice
the bioessentialism in this episode made me feel kind of shitty but very informative :-) ty
What bioessentialism?
@@SciGuys i guess misgendering would be more correct! im a transmasc who kind of recently had a pregnancy scare, and as cool as it was to hear about this stuff, hearing things like "we're aware that we are talking about a man in a discussion about abortion" sort of upset me a bit as there are many masc alligned people/men who are affected.
although its a great episode! im a bit sensitive to that stuff. apologies that my comment is really rude!
the recent discussions over roe v wade in the usa did sort of make me more on-alert to terms like "people who are not women shouldnt have an opinion", im aware that you were trying and i do appreciate it, especially things like changing words around in original sources to be more inclusive! it means a lot.
obviously pro-choice
Pro choice
@Andrew Campbell Yes
@Andrew Campbell absolutely. fuck those babies
@Andrew Campbell *fetus. If your going to argue about medical choices, you should actually learn the correct terms.
@Andrew Campbell Student of psychology, studying developmental psychology here. Life is separated by several stages and substages. The prenatal stage (conception to birth) is sorted into 3 substages. Germinal Period is the 1st 2 weeks. The embriotic Period starts next and last about 8 weeks, during which the organism is called an embryo. At the end of this period (aprox. after 8 weeks), begins the Fetal Period. From here on out the organism is called a fetus until the start of the birth process. Right after birth, you get the Neonate (AKA newborn) for 2 - 4 weeks. Then, 2-4 weeks after birth, viola, you get a baby.
@Andrew Campbell Well if you think abortion is murder I’m gonna assume you would want to make all abortion illegal. This will only result in people having abortions the unsafe way which in turn poses physical and mental well being issues for the person who is pregnant. ‘Each year, 4.7-13.2% of maternal deaths can be attributed to unsafe abortion (3). In developed regions, it is estimated that 30 women die for every 100 000 unsafe abortions. In developing regions, that number rises to 220 deaths per 100 000 unsafe abortions (2). Estimates from 2012 indicate that in developing countries alone, 7 million women per year were treated in hospital facilities for complications of unsafe abortion (4). Physical health risks associated with unsafe abortion include:
incomplete abortion (failure to remove or expel all pregnancy tissue from the uterus);
haemorrhage (heavy bleeding);
infection;
uterine perforation (caused when the uterus is pierced by a sharp object); and
damage to the genital tract and internal organs as a consequence of inserting dangerous objects into the vagina or anus.’ (www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/abortion)
What will you personally get from this abortion? Abortion going to be carried out regardless of whether it is illegal or not, Making it legal would reduce unnecessary deaths. If you have a uterus and are personally against abortion than great for you don’t get an abortion but why limit other people they don’t effect your life. Pro choice is not Pro abortion, it just the freedom to choose what YOU get to do with YOUR own body and freedom to do what you want to do with your own body is a basic human right. Keeping abortion legal and working with society to get people to not need abortion in the first place is the goal of the Pro choice movement. One of the steps we need to take is to have good SexEd and teach men not to rape. Thank you for listening and have a good day. :)
spotify sux. pandora is better. ran into someone on okcupid who's like aggressively against mlm being pro-choice and like... cissexist and misogynistic much but also wtf?
this is irrelevant. obviously I believe in basic human rights and am thusly pro-choice.
39:48 LMAOO *DO IT*
Pro-choice
Fucking amazing guy
I’m also concern by the lack of people with uterus on this episode 🤔🤔🤔
I have a uterus and I think you should be quiet
@@nyumyu4265 🙄
They're called women. But why would having or not having a particular body part be relevant? Obviously people can't just do anything they want based on what body parts they have. Does having a uterus change the fact that abortion kills an innocent human being?
i have one too and just shut up
Great show guys. The story about the Jewish Doctor was so interesting. I do however disagree with a few things you talked about. My ex-wife & I adopted a new born several years ago. My daughter is now 20 years old. Her birth mom is Catholic & chose to have the baby, then to give it up for adoption. We were so glad she did. We were unable to have kids, so this was an answer to prayer. So, with that all said, I am pro life, except in cases of rape, incest or the life of the mother is in danger. I am equally pro choice. The woman has the absolute right to choose what is best for her. No, I am not bi-polar, just a human being who wants other human beings to make their own choices. Also, I live in Texas where abortion is illegal no matter what. If you believe in God, don't forget to pray for me & all the women in Texas. Keep up the great work guys.
So what do you consider we do with the non-aborted children than? If you only agree with abortion for “rape” and “incest” than what about children who are being born with incapable, or poor parents than cannot provide the correct care, because of mental illness, disability or financial issues? Many argue for forcing people to give birth and putting the kid up for adoption, but foster homes are not only completely underfunded, and overpopulated, a majority of kids in the foster system will be abused, never have a family, and not be properly taken care of. Not everyone is religious like you. The name “pro-life” is extremely misleading when the policies you people push onto everyone not only force children into extremely dangerous and negative situations, but there are also many females who haven’t been able to receive medical treatment for emergencies, because the fetus has a heartbeat, so preserving her health could get the doctors jailed. There are women bleeding out in hospitals and being forced to give birth to stillborn children, because what you and the other “pro-torture” people in politics still fail to specify what “emergencies” give someone a right to an abortion. Your policies that claim to preserve life, shove children into a system where all care for life disappears once the child is born. Your religion and prayers mean absolutely nothing in a discussion about human rights and bodily autonomy.
@@nyumyu4265 You’re barking up the wrong tree bud. As I stated earlier, I am totally in favor and support a woman’s right to choose. It is her body her choice. In my personal story that I shared, adoption worked out for us, and I’m thankful it did. It may not be for everybody and that’s OK. The Supreme Court should have left Roe v. Wade alone. I am totally opposed to any state who denies a woman the constitutional right to choose abortion. You might want to go back and reread what I wrote.
@@matthewking8806 you literally said “I am pro life, except in cases of rape and incest” in your comment. I am only pointing out the irony in that statement
@@nyumyu4265 Did you go onto read that I said I'm equally pro choice? Irony to you, but not to me. In the end, it is her choice, it's her constitutional right to decide.
@@matthewking8806 you cannot be anti-choice and pro-choice at the same time. You have contradicted yourself.
Pro choice
Pro choice