I think, maybe around christmas, they should have a bidding that goes to charity and the winner gets to sit in on a zoom call while Simon solves and they can point out all the simple things Simon misses and we can all live vicariously through the winner.
ViKingPrime checking in - amazing work on the solve, truly! I'm hugely honoured by the recommendation by ThePedallingPianist and I'm actually quite relieved you didn't find it a complete pushover; I wanted it to be approachable but still somewhat challenging. This was born out of a collaboration on a separate puzzle with Marty Sears called "Unzipped", a shenanigans/liar puzzle based on the work of Jay Dyer. The idea was to have two lines facing each other like a sports net and have clues make it look like a playbook. It didn't quite fit the theme there but it felt like too good of an idea not to explore; this was an immensely enjoyable puzzle to set, yet the real gem is that puzzle with Marty. If you enjoy liar puzzles, I highly encourage you all to check that one out as well. It was an opportunity for both of us to step outside of our comfort zones and I'm quite proud of the result. P.S. The hat is quite fetching (and quite festive)!
Wonderful puzzle. While I picked up where the two zipper lines couldn't be correct, I could see where others wouldn't see this immediately. I hope the 2 out of 3 could be a major contender for something that could create a lot of different puzzles this coming year, and yours is at the forefront.
Thanks for a great puzzle! I think it was exactly "approachable but still somewhat challenging" - about half an hour for me, which I feel is the perfect level. A few things to scratch one's head about, but no need to bang it.
At 31:09, Simon says "I don't think it can be this row." My answer: "Yes, it is." This is one of those times that Mark's full pencil-marking would have made it obvious. EDIT: Never mind. Just watched Simon pencil-mark it, but not notice the problem.
I'm delighted this got the feature it deserved - thank you CTC, and very well showcased Simon! This is one of those puzzles that has been crafted perfectly such that every single logical deduction is challenging but fair, and remarkably varied, leading to a smooth and endlessly interesting solve path. Beautiful construction!
I love how supportive the variant sudoko creator community is of each other. I have enjoyed a lot of your puzzles. Thank you for sharing your work and your encouragement of others
Only rarely do I have the opportunity to whisper to the screen, but that `stuckage` around 32:10 had me quietly muttering 'Dear Simon, 5 and 6 can never sum to something sensible for zipper line' for a few moments.
From two years or so ago, when I first started watching, under Simon and Mark's expert tuition, I am now very much better at seeing things they miss. They still both see most things more quickly than I do. These explanations are a joy to watch, and also continue to be incredibly and effectively instructive.
At 37:30, it didn't bother me at all that you missed a deduction; what infuriated me was that you said "I take my hat off," and then left your hat on! 🤣
15:00 It's possible here to prove that the V in row 5 must be incorrect-as just enumerated, if the center of the zipper line is 7 the sums have to be 1+6 and 3+4, while for 8 it must be 1+7 and 3+5, which means the line will always include a 1 and a 3. This rules out both 14 and 23 from the V so it must be false.
Yeah, that is actually how I did it. Interesting way on how SImon did it, but I think proving the V was false was easier with zipper line in the middle
I got to it even easier without having to do as much arithmetic (side note, I solved the puzzle without watching the video so no idea how Simon did it). You can deduce that the X in row 5 must be a valid X as must the zipper in row 5 be a valid zipper, since one each of the zipper and X's in box 2 and 8 must be wrong. From there you can conclude that the maximum the X plus zipper can be is 27+10=37, and therefore the V can never equal less than 8 and is therefore broken.
@@TheMeanderingduck6 That's how I did it, but reversed math. I knew the X was true, so if the V was also true, then the zipper was 30, for an average of 10. Not possible. Thus, V is false.
I feel like he never said out loud the sentence he was thinking in his head when he referred to “speaking in tongues,” because I suspect it was something like, “There’s an x-wing on correct zipper lines and correct X clues.”
I got so freaking angry when Simon pencil marked a minimum of 5/6 in the bottom zipper and took ages noticing the line was immediately bonkers because of it 😂... Bit apology accepted Simon 😅
Nice one. I liked how the "two truths and a lie" theme sort of flowed through the solve: discoving 2 truths revealed a lie (in otherwise unrelated clues) or two truths and a lie revealed something new. Like it is immediately deducible that the zipper lines and X's in boxes 2 and 8 cannot simultaneously be true, so the X and zipper in row 5 must both be true, but that reveals that the V in row 5 must be false, which leads to the Vs in row 7 being true, which leads... Very well done.
That's interesting, normally (I say normally , it's really quite rare) when I catch something Simon misses, it's not until several clues later that he gets it. This one was really funny because Simon deduced that R5C5 must be either 7 or 8 at 12:50 which instantly means we know the zipper MUST have a 1 and a 3 on the zipper. That forces the V clue in R5 to be false. The next marking Simon makes at 18:30 was that the X in row 5 was true and the V in the same row was false. I think this is much more interesting and satisfying logic to watch and really came together in an awesome way, but I can't help noticing that there was a much faster and simpler way to invalidate the V.
How can he double-click 3s at 47:47 and not see it's restricted to one cell in box 4 (or see it's restricted to two places by placed 3s, and then hopefully spot the pencil marked 3s in box 1 eliminating one of those). For six minutes I was willing him to place 3 in box 4.
Frustrating 7 minutes shouting at the screen as Simon pencil marks row 7 at 31:10 then dosen't notice that since R7C4 & R7C6 are both 5 or higher the zipper in box 8 must be broken until 38:23
24:03 finish. I started off with the 4x+10 can never be 45 logic, and branched out from there. The last few wrogn clues fell into place quite nicely. Another excellent puzzle!
For ten minutes I was looking at that 3 in box 4 and thinking “Well, Simon doesn’t see it, but it doesn’t do much” and then finally Simon did see it, and cracked the puzzle open with it.
Me too. That 3 in box four virtually cracked it and was available for quite a while before Simon saw it. BUT - WOW. I've only just recently found this channel - I'm hugely impressed by Simon's brilliance.
I'm not usually a fan of wrogn puzzles but this one was a lot of fun because the next clearly wrong clue was never far away and fairly straight-forward to identify without being too simple.
This was a great solve-along-with-Simon grid. Ever so often, I'll see something before Simon does and I'll feel clever, until I get stuck and then I have to wait for Simon to catch up. But also, sometimes Simon will make an observation that, although it doesn't help him immediately in his solve, it does help *me* with my solve. Love that.
The two truths and a lie set-up is so much less busy than a full wrogn puzzle - somehow the balance works. I've enjoyed every wrogn puzzle I've solved (my first was the one in the pyramid hunt) and the logic in each has been tight and interesting. But the flexibility of ambiguous clues is also a good thing and has led to some brilliant puzzles. I hope there will still be a full wrogn puzzle or two being set (perhaps as a setting challenge). This one is also all internal clues - very often we get external clues too. I wonder whether there is a "two truths and a lie" puzzle to be set with only external clues (as here using colours - like the coloured circles - to distinguish clue types) ...
I think from the moment you got the 7,8 in the middle box for the zipper line, you could've determined that the V clue was wrong. If it was 7, you'd be using (1,6) and (3,4), so 1,3&4 are no longer available for the V. If it was 8, you'd be using (1,7) and (3,5), so 1&3 are no longer available for thee V. In both cases, you've removed all possibilities for the V clue to work.
Over the course of over a year of solving and then watching your solves, I have been "Simonized":) I got stuck EXACTLY at the same point with the zipper line, and I was just exactly as frustrated :))))) Loved the puzzle!
10:10 I was hoping to see what would happen if Simon decided that block 7's V was false. After placing the 2 in the true circle and identifying the other two circles as a 2B pair, I went straight for blocks 2 and 9 and *tried* analyzing them as if they were correct. (After all, at least one was correct. Right?) A little math broke them, which meant that the line and X in row 5 were correct. Some more math broke the V. 14:00 "1s and 7s, 3s and 5s" -- I reacted that V was still wrong. Is anything more ridiculous than placing a 9 in a V-domino? Placing a 5 perhaps? 30:50 You have enough information to determine which blue line is false. 32:10 The sum, the sum. 34:00 Back to row 7 block 8. 37:00 Once you identify the correct line, 849 in the central column breaks the correct X. 37:20 I assume I'm not the only one antsy about R7C4 + R7C6 giving a double-digit number. 40:20 Simon caught that sum. Now, 849 in rows 123 of the central column breaks the X in block 8. 42:50 Simon flatters me! It didn't take too long for me to see that 489 broke the X. 46:50 It's mostly Sudoku now. Sorry about that, Simon.
I love the puzzle type where not only do you need to figure out the digits, you even need to figure out the correct clues/rules. One cool puzzle like that had the grid full of grey lines and you had to figure out by yourself whether a grey line is either a renban or a german whisper.
42:00 I was stuck here for a long time. Played Simon, got to the point where his puzzle looked like mine (~42 min point) where I had been stuck for over an hour and see he has 10 minutes left in the video (in a bit of disbelief). Took him... 30 seconds to get that bump. Well done sir! I did get box 8 a bit quicker so I can hang my hat on that !! :)
I wasn't screaming at you in a negative sense, I was cheering you on from the other side of the pond to see the fake zipper. I don't pretend to understand solving these in public, so I applaud you finding it in the end!
I think this was the first wrogn puzzle that I found quite approachable! I think I saw the very nice big steps along the solve much quicker than Simon did, but they still weren't easy and made for a perfectly difficult puzzle. Loved it, huge kudos to ViKingPrime!
How lucky are we, that live in the right time to witness these years of rapid evolution of sudoku variants, so well showcased by CTC, in which so many genius constructors have been giving birth to so many new or hybrid species?
Metaphorically shouting. I did notice that about ten minutes went by in the video from the time I first noted that one could rule out a particular zipper to the point where Simon got it. EDIT: Actually, it was only about seven minutes.
I've yet to watch this one yet but wanted to drop a comment that I just rewatched your full Witness playthrough again, it got me through some long work hours this week, thank you for that (I work with my hands so have to occupy my brain 🤣) and your music box challenge run is still perhaps my favorite video of all you've done, just epic. 😁
Simon, you probably won’t see this comment, but this channel has meant so much to me in the year or so that I’ve been following along. So THANK YOU for all you do for the Sudoku community and have a Merry Christmas!!
I missed the logic at 21:55 I see why it has to be 2-8 or 4-6, but I don't see why the 2-8 can't be in either order. Why can only the right one be a 2? Later at 26:10 it turns out to be true. With additional deductions, but I didn't see the logic earlier
38:07 First time finishing a puzzle faster than Simon😮 Somehow I always looking at the right place to think and the secret help ALOT. Would not be faster if Simon look through the logic in row 7 lol. Reli great puzzle. I love it!
These wrogn puzzles always look like they are going to be a nightmare at the start, but once you latch onto the first couple of things they aren't so bad. I didn't spend too much "what on Earth do I do next" time.
Hi simon. I am studying mathematics at university. I think its no wonder that math professors watch your videos. There were quite some really satisfying deductions you madr about this puzzle!! Thank you for the Video+
Gotta love a Gass* puzzle 😃This was a brilliant example of Patrick's style and genius. He has a very distinctive feel to his puzzles: there is often a lot going on and can often be overwhelming at first to know where to look, but once you get on the right track it is full of beautiful gems. He's also one of the masters of the 'liar / wrogn' genre... he clearly really loves these sorts of puzzles and has become very slick at setting them. He just has a real knack for thinking of delightful little logical setpieces. So many pleasing ideas packed into one grid; even something as simple as 'this odd circle contains a 6, so it's lying and the other two must be true' is really satisfying to me, because it immediately lets you fill things in and leads to the next step. Have throughly enjoyed doing a couple of collabs with ViKingPrime; it's really interesting because I think we have quite different styles and our brains work in quite different ways, but it's very fun seeing what a puzzle that is halfway between the two styles looks like. And I'm sure there will be more soon! *that's his surname
I was waiting for you to make this pun! Collabing has been a blast - I've definitely noticed some improvement in my setting over time, thanks in no small part to your (often nefarious) influence. Well now, now that we've had this pleasant diversion, I say bring on the next Marty Sears feature!
Very well deserved feature for Viking Prime with all the work they put into liar and other ambiguity puzzles lately. Solved this back when it came out and the logic is fantastic. Also: "hooray zipper lines".
At 10:55, not only can you state that r5's zipper line, but also r5's x, must be true. This means r5's V must be false. 10+4x does not equal 45 without decimels or fractions. Solved in 24:14.
I can't reasonably get frustrated with you for not seeing that bottom zipper couldn't be correct when I was stumped for even longer than you were because I forgot to place the 4 on the middle zipper and had to muddle through a ton of extra logic because I couldn't count to 7. One minor thing you did miss, though, was that in row 5 the central zipper had to use both 1 and 3 no matter what, which makes the V impossible, no secret maths required.
Somehow i managed to solve it in only 19 minutes! But i loved every second of it, wrogn puzzles are really my favourites!!! Please keep them coming!!!😊
@30:28 "If this (the center of the lower zipper line) were 8 or 9, there'd be no pressure at all." I just started laughing, having managed to solve the puzzle already before watching. I'm sure Simon will eventually notice Row 7's low digits. :p Edit: Oh heck! It gets even worse when Simon pencil marks Row 7, and still doesn't make the connection that if the bottom zipper was real, it has to sum to at least 11, which isn't possible in a valid sudoku digit!
Aargh! Circles and two truths and a lie. The only thing I know about circles is that their logic is more reliable than mine, so this freaks me out just thinking about it!
Finished 49:32. I wish there was an easy way of marking things as correct and incorrect. Sometimes, I put in numbers to see if they work and then make a mistake because I assume my pencil markings are correct here.... Fun puzzle!
A facetious reply would be just don't put in anything that is incorrect. I can fill you in on my little secret as long as you don't tell Simon. I'll sometimes color an empty cell, then fill in a "guess" that I hope to eliminate. This will lead to other deductions/markings that lead to other possibilities etc. until I get the desired conflict. Then back up to the colored cell and continue with one possibility eliminated. I rarely set a speed record though. Now shh! Don't tell Simon that I bifurcate or I'm afraid I will no longer be one of his favorite people.
A facetious reply would be just don't put in anything that is incorrect. I can fill you in on my little secret as long as you don't tell Simon. I'll sometimes color an empty cell, then fill in a "guess" that I hope to eliminate. This will lead to other deductions/markings that lead to other possibilities etc. until I get the desired conflict. Then back up to the colored cell and continue with one possibility eliminated. I rarely set a speed record though. Now shh! Don't tell Simon that I bifurcate or I'm afraid I will no longer be one of his favorite people.
If that one is "Parallels", I would avoid that for now. Turns out that needs an update - definitely check out "A Deal with the Devil" though, should be of an equal difficulty to this, if you've been watching CtC and know some of the tricks.
@@titusadduxas ahh! A fabulous puzzle, tallcat is a brilliant setter. I would say once you start getting into the tallcats and the zetamaths of the world though, you're in for much more of a challenge. A good warmup would be the Pinocchio series by thoughtbyte - definitely start there, such a phenomenal set of puzzles.
45:50 for me. Once you get to grips with 2 truths and a lie puzzles they can be so fun. Certainly need experience but like this one they can be pretty approachable.
It’s funny how sorting the incorrect zipper was the very first thing I did. And the thing I got hung up on for ages was missing the incorrect white dot.
Brilliant puzzle! Smooth solution path too. Little tip that might come in useful for others, I used the pen tool with green marking the true clues and red marking the false, which helps as it doesn’t obscure the digits/clues too much
I finished in 33:53 minutes. This wrogn puzzles are so fun. They make me feel like a detective, slowly uncovering which ones are liars. I really liked the pathway on this with the two zipper and X clues in box 2 and 8. As always, it feels good to beat Simon's time. Great Puzzle!
Simpler way to see that the v in row 5 is a lie: once the central cell is a 7 or 8, the zipper line in row 5 always contains a 1 and a 3. 16/34 or 17/35. So the V clue is impossible straight away because it can't have a 14 or a 23.
Box 8 was one of the first things I worked out, after concluding both "v's" in row 7 were correct. If the zipper in box 8 was correct, then it would HAVE to have at least one small digit on either end of the line.
37:30 ... I wonder how long it is going to take him to notice in rox 7 5+6 > 9 which makes the bottom blue line the incorrect line. 39:30... If only he had continued on checking the 49 he would have noticed with 4,8,9 there would be no way to make the positives x at all meaning it can not be an 8 and thus must be a 9 filling out a lot of digits since not the large line is forced to be the minimum.
There's some beautiful bit of logic in the central row, which Simon unfortunately doesn't discover since he solves the row by locating the 9 at 26:11. An 8 zipper sum would put a 46 pair in the white dot on the right, and a 5 on the white dot on the left, which would also need a 4 or a 6 on the dot.
Love it 👍🏻👍🏻 Can't beat a good bit of wrogn-ness! This one was surprisingly tractable, it took me 24 minutes, so either I've found some deductions a lot quicker than Simon, or he's spent a long time explaining his logic, or I've fluked a digit that I had no right to put in! Wait, you know what? I think I've fluked it 😢. *Spoiler* I worked out from the start that the correct horseshoe-zipper had to have a 9 in the middle ... but I don't think that's the case ... why couldn't it be an 8 with 4x9 in the gap, or 7 with 8x9 in the gap? Bum. That serves me right for feeling smug.
In my case, I first worked out that 89 in the central line broke the line, so the sum had to be 7. Then I figured out which horseshoe was correct. Finally, I saw that 849 broke the correct X below. One does need work to place the 9. But, a well-placed mistake works wonders.
Actually, your reasoning is fine once the purple circles are sorted out. Once it is known that a two is needed in one of the purple circles in row 5, 7 and 8 become impossible for the middle digit of the correct horseshoe zipper. 7 is impossible because the 8x9 in the gap does not allow for a valid central digit in the middle zipper, and 8 is impossible because the 4x9 in the gap force a 7 as the central digit of the middle zipper, making the correct X impossible to fill. However, it doesn't seem possible to me to conclude at the START of the solve that the correct horseshoe zipper needs a 9.
Phew, from watching the video I can see that I didn't bypass too much logic, and that if I had correctly decided that the 9 was either in the middle of the genuine zipper OR on its corresponding lying X then it would have been fairly trivial to get to the correct answer.
Have you ever considered setting up an eye tracker for a video? I think it would be really interesting to see where your focus is and how quickly and in which pattern you scan the sudoku puzzles :o
In these '2 truths and a lie' puzzles, usually two of a common clue are in essentially the same arrangement (e.g., the 7-cell zippers here, the Xs in C5; an exception in this puzzle are the Vs in R7) and almost always but not always BOTH of those can't be true so you can go to the third one and mark it as true.
Yup ... for ten minutes I was screaming at the screen (not really) ... but as soon as the 1/2/3/4 were determined in R7, I could see that the zipper in box 8 was of the unreal variety🙂
1hr 12mins for me. I'm really pleased with my progress. It's slow but steady, getting better at these puzzles. Really enjoying the challenge they give me
An unnecessary but beautiful observation, is that even before the orientation of correct zippers and X clues in boxes 2 and 8 gets determined, once you have the central 7 placed, you can eliminate 8 from the center of the other correct zipper, as along with the 894 it creates in the center column, there's additionally a 7 that would eliminate 46, 73, 82, and 91 from the correct X in the other box. Basically, it doesn't rely on determining box 8 had the incorrect zipper, or the eliminations from any other clues.
Super frustrating when Simon didn't realize the bottom zipper couldn't be correct. It was made extra frustrating because it technically wasn't simple - you needed to realize all of the low digits were missing from that row before you could make that deduction. But he'd done the more difficult part! And then just had the easy part staring him in the face.
Sorry Simon but at 19:51 you could have seen it.😮 hidden in plain sight 😎such cool setting.. how can that zipper line in box 8 be true? The 2 true v clues break it
24:34. Not cheating first I'd make the purple circle in cell 7 as a 2 to eliminate that as right since it looked the wrongest. That quickly led to determining the validity of other clues. To the point where I was thinking maybe that clue was correct. The puzzle did flow to solve itself. So to get to the point to determine that 2 in box 7 was correct, I'm not sure how long that would have taken. EDIT. I would have easily figured it out because the two other purple were the same row so both couldn't be 2s.
26:09, made a mistake early on and looked at the video to see where my error was (I had a 2 in r7c2, saw that r7c3 couldn't be a 3 with the arrow working, and thus ruled that the V clue was incorrect, not the arrow), but it flowed well from there. I'm usually horrible at these puzzles! I did have a question near the end. Does an incorrect zipper line mean that NONE of the pairs could sum to the digit in the center, or could some of them work as long as there was a mistake somewhere else along the line? In this puzzle, the answer to that turned out to be: "look at the digits you have written in to disambiguate a pair pencil marked in the same row, you fool!"
I think the general rule regarding a false clue is to ignore it -- except to avoid making it true. So it's okay to have some pairs sum to the central digit on a false zipper line.
I think, maybe around christmas, they should have a bidding that goes to charity and the winner gets to sit in on a zoom call while Simon solves and they can point out all the simple things Simon misses and we can all live vicariously through the winner.
And then we can all shout at the winner about things they're missing telling Simon about, for a bit of variety.
So, just shout "sudoku!" over and over?
It wasn't sudoku this time. It was inexperience with zippers I guess.
@@WilliamSpieth Can you give me the timestamp to when Simon pees his pants?
@@srwapo i was thinking more faux derision...lots of "Oh Simon...please stop being a numpty..."
ViKingPrime checking in - amazing work on the solve, truly! I'm hugely honoured by the recommendation by ThePedallingPianist and I'm actually quite relieved you didn't find it a complete pushover; I wanted it to be approachable but still somewhat challenging. This was born out of a collaboration on a separate puzzle with Marty Sears called "Unzipped", a shenanigans/liar puzzle based on the work of Jay Dyer. The idea was to have two lines facing each other like a sports net and have clues make it look like a playbook. It didn't quite fit the theme there but it felt like too good of an idea not to explore; this was an immensely enjoyable puzzle to set, yet the real gem is that puzzle with Marty. If you enjoy liar puzzles, I highly encourage you all to check that one out as well. It was an opportunity for both of us to step outside of our comfort zones and I'm quite proud of the result.
P.S. The hat is quite fetching (and quite festive)!
Thanks for setting this. I solved both trick play and unzipped and enjoyed both of them a lot.
Wonderful puzzle. While I picked up where the two zipper lines couldn't be correct, I could see where others wouldn't see this immediately. I hope the 2 out of 3 could be a major contender for something that could create a lot of different puzzles this coming year, and yours is at the forefront.
Beautifully done, sir!
it IS approachable - but only for experts. it's a good workout for intermediate solvers, but beginners just won't have the tools.
Thanks for a great puzzle! I think it was exactly "approachable but still somewhat challenging" - about half an hour for me, which I feel is the perfect level. A few things to scratch one's head about, but no need to bang it.
32:15 the zipper line in box 8 must sum now to a minimum of 5+6=11, so it must be wrogn! What a nice puzzle :-)
At 31:09, Simon says "I don't think it can be this row." My answer: "Yes, it is." This is one of those times that Mark's full pencil-marking would have made it obvious.
EDIT: Never mind. Just watched Simon pencil-mark it, but not notice the problem.
I'm delighted this got the feature it deserved - thank you CTC, and very well showcased Simon! This is one of those puzzles that has been crafted perfectly such that every single logical deduction is challenging but fair, and remarkably varied, leading to a smooth and endlessly interesting solve path. Beautiful construction!
You're too kind! Thank you so much. Hope all is well with the little one and I'm really looking forward to your next creation.
I love how supportive the variant sudoko creator community is of each other. I have enjoyed a lot of your puzzles. Thank you for sharing your work and your encouragement of others
Only rarely do I have the opportunity to whisper to the screen, but that `stuckage` around 32:10 had me quietly muttering 'Dear Simon, 5 and 6 can never sum to something sensible for zipper line' for a few moments.
From two years or so ago, when I first started watching, under Simon and Mark's expert tuition, I am now very much better at seeing things they miss. They still both see most things more quickly than I do. These explanations are a joy to watch, and also continue to be incredibly and effectively instructive.
At 37:30, it didn't bother me at all that you missed a deduction; what infuriated me was that you said "I take my hat off," and then left your hat on! 🤣
YES! I totally agree. The rare time he is wearing a hat, and he doesn't take it off!
15:00 It's possible here to prove that the V in row 5 must be incorrect-as just enumerated, if the center of the zipper line is 7 the sums have to be 1+6 and 3+4, while for 8 it must be 1+7 and 3+5, which means the line will always include a 1 and a 3. This rules out both 14 and 23 from the V so it must be false.
Yeah, that is actually how I did it. Interesting way on how SImon did it, but I think proving the V was false was easier with zipper line in the middle
That is how I did it as well.
I got to it even easier without having to do as much arithmetic (side note, I solved the puzzle without watching the video so no idea how Simon did it). You can deduce that the X in row 5 must be a valid X as must the zipper in row 5 be a valid zipper, since one each of the zipper and X's in box 2 and 8 must be wrong. From there you can conclude that the maximum the X plus zipper can be is 27+10=37, and therefore the V can never equal less than 8 and is therefore broken.
@@TheMeanderingduck6 That's how I did it, but reversed math. I knew the X was true, so if the V was also true, then the zipper was 30, for an average of 10. Not possible. Thus, V is false.
@@johnh2052 I did it that way round too. Just leapt out at me.
I feel like he never said out loud the sentence he was thinking in his head when he referred to “speaking in tongues,” because I suspect it was something like, “There’s an x-wing on correct zipper lines and correct X clues.”
Rules: 04:28
Let's Get Cracking: 07:48
What about this video's Top Tier Simarkisms?!
The Secret: 4x (14:49, 14:52, 15:01, 56:28)
Three In the Corner: 2x (53:38, 53:40)
Scooby-Doo: 2x (32:22, 32:25)
Cooking with Gas: 1x (19:51)
Phistomefel: 1x (00:31)
And how about this video's Simarkisms?!
Ah: 14x (04:52, 11:38, 14:21, 20:26, 21:02, 22:48, 24:14, 25:56, 26:44, 28:38, 29:01, 29:11, 45:06, 53:01)
Brilliant: 8x (04:13, 26:28, 26:33, 37:51, 42:55, 42:55, 55:39, 55:42)
Hang On: 8x (16:45, 20:33, 20:43, 22:20, 22:20, 22:20, 49:15, 56:02)
Sorry: 7x (08:04, 14:00, 22:26, 38:01, 46:32, 51:57, 52:03)
Beautiful: 5x (19:41, 42:30, 55:57, 56:36, 56:46)
Obviously: 5x (05:49, 16:14, 21:18, 31:08, 42:35)
Clever: 4x (16:56, 16:58, 34:27, 34:30)
Cake!: 4x (02:56, 03:00, 03:02, 03:23)
Bother: 3x (28:13, 44:00, 54:23)
By Sudoku: 3x (28:44, 45:39, 53:16)
In Fact: 3x (17:37, 43:24, 51:48)
Wow: 3x (37:03, 49:59, 49:59)
What Does This Mean?: 3x (04:49, 35:29, 53:58)
Nature: 3x (09:52, 15:25, 23:37)
Weird: 3x (41:34, 47:06, 47:06)
Goodness: 2x (42:11, 52:31)
Naked Single: 2x (48:17, 55:21)
I Have no Clue: 2x (30:50, 48:06)
What on Earth: 1x (30:44)
The Answer is: 1x (38:25)
Out of Nowhere: 1x (55:37)
Nonsense: 1x (33:08)
Recalcitrant: 1x (50:02)
Naughty: 1x (48:59)
Stuck: 1x (33:45)
Lovely: 1x (07:41)
Come on Simon: 1x (48:13)
Shouting: 1x (38:01)
Of All Things: 1x (29:14)
Think Harder: 1x (32:10)
I've Got It!: 1x (37:47)
Box Thingy: 1x (47:14)
Wrogn: 1x (00:44)
That is Sick: 1x (42:07)
Pencil Mark/mark: 1x (26:12)
Most popular number(>9), digit and colour this video:
Ten, Twenty Seven, Forty Nine (7 mentions)
One (84 mentions)
White (17 mentions)
Antithesis Battles:
Low (4) - High (1)
Even (11) - Odd (4)
White (17) - Black (12)
Row (18) - Column (10)
FAQ:
Q1: You missed something!
A1: That could very well be the case! Human speech can be hard to understand for computers like me! Point out the ones that I missed and maybe I'll learn!
Q2: Can you do this for another channel?
A2: I've been thinking about that and wrote some code to make that possible. Let me know which channel you think would be a good fit!
I got so freaking angry when Simon pencil marked a minimum of 5/6 in the bottom zipper and took ages noticing the line was immediately bonkers because of it 😂... Bit apology accepted Simon 😅
Nice one. I liked how the "two truths and a lie" theme sort of flowed through the solve: discoving 2 truths revealed a lie (in otherwise unrelated clues) or two truths and a lie revealed something new. Like it is immediately deducible that the zipper lines and X's in boxes 2 and 8 cannot simultaneously be true, so the X and zipper in row 5 must both be true, but that reveals that the V in row 5 must be false, which leads to the Vs in row 7 being true, which leads...
Very well done.
That's interesting, normally (I say normally , it's really quite rare) when I catch something Simon misses, it's not until several clues later that he gets it. This one was really funny because Simon deduced that R5C5 must be either 7 or 8 at 12:50 which instantly means we know the zipper MUST have a 1 and a 3 on the zipper. That forces the V clue in R5 to be false.
The next marking Simon makes at 18:30 was that the X in row 5 was true and the V in the same row was false. I think this is much more interesting and satisfying logic to watch and really came together in an awesome way, but I can't help noticing that there was a much faster and simpler way to invalidate the V.
Untypical of Simon to miss the easy deduction in box 8 : the 1234 on row 7 makes it impossible for the zipper line in it to be correct.
Yes was waiting for him to find it, and he even looked at row7 and filled in the candidates
Painful to watch him saying ‘it depends whether the zipper line is real’ when considering these cells 😂
I shouted a lot. I'm surprised he didn't hear me
How can he double-click 3s at 47:47 and not see it's restricted to one cell in box 4 (or see it's restricted to two places by placed 3s, and then hopefully spot the pencil marked 3s in box 1 eliminating one of those). For six minutes I was willing him to place 3 in box 4.
Frustrating 7 minutes shouting at the screen as Simon pencil marks row 7 at 31:10 then dosen't notice that since R7C4 & R7C6 are both 5 or higher the zipper in box 8 must be broken until 38:23
24:03 finish. I started off with the 4x+10 can never be 45 logic, and branched out from there. The last few wrogn clues fell into place quite nicely. Another excellent puzzle!
For ten minutes I was looking at that 3 in box 4 and thinking “Well, Simon doesn’t see it, but it doesn’t do much” and then finally Simon did see it, and cracked the puzzle open with it.
Me too. That 3 in box four virtually cracked it and was available for quite a while before Simon saw it. BUT - WOW. I've only just recently found this channel - I'm hugely impressed by Simon's brilliance.
34:32 “it’s very clever that this is not obvious” Simon says, as he misses the most obvious deduction 😂
I'm not usually a fan of wrogn puzzles but this one was a lot of fun because the next clearly wrong clue was never far away and fairly straight-forward to identify without being too simple.
47:02 Simon, having to do a bit of sudoku: ‘this is getting a bit desperate’ 😂
This was a great solve-along-with-Simon grid. Ever so often, I'll see something before Simon does and I'll feel clever, until I get stuck and then I have to wait for Simon to catch up. But also, sometimes Simon will make an observation that, although it doesn't help him immediately in his solve, it does help *me* with my solve. Love that.
The two truths and a lie set-up is so much less busy than a full wrogn puzzle - somehow the balance works. I've enjoyed every wrogn puzzle I've solved (my first was the one in the pyramid hunt) and the logic in each has been tight and interesting. But the flexibility of ambiguous clues is also a good thing and has led to some brilliant puzzles. I hope there will still be a full wrogn puzzle or two being set (perhaps as a setting challenge).
This one is also all internal clues - very often we get external clues too. I wonder whether there is a "two truths and a lie" puzzle to be set with only external clues (as here using colours - like the coloured circles - to distinguish clue types) ...
I think from the moment you got the 7,8 in the middle box for the zipper line, you could've determined that the V clue was wrong. If it was 7, you'd be using (1,6) and (3,4), so 1,3&4 are no longer available for the V. If it was 8, you'd be using (1,7) and (3,5), so 1&3 are no longer available for thee V. In both cases, you've removed all possibilities for the V clue to work.
Over the course of over a year of solving and then watching your solves, I have been "Simonized":) I got stuck EXACTLY at the same point with the zipper line, and I was just exactly as frustrated :)))))
Loved the puzzle!
10:10 I was hoping to see what would happen if Simon decided that block 7's V was false. After placing the 2 in the true circle and identifying the other two circles as a 2B pair, I went straight for blocks 2 and 9 and *tried* analyzing them as if they were correct. (After all, at least one was correct. Right?) A little math broke them, which meant that the line and X in row 5 were correct. Some more math broke the V.
14:00 "1s and 7s, 3s and 5s" -- I reacted that V was still wrong. Is anything more ridiculous than placing a 9 in a V-domino? Placing a 5 perhaps?
30:50 You have enough information to determine which blue line is false.
32:10 The sum, the sum.
34:00 Back to row 7 block 8.
37:00 Once you identify the correct line, 849 in the central column breaks the correct X.
37:20 I assume I'm not the only one antsy about R7C4 + R7C6 giving a double-digit number.
40:20 Simon caught that sum. Now, 849 in rows 123 of the central column breaks the X in block 8.
42:50 Simon flatters me! It didn't take too long for me to see that 489 broke the X.
46:50 It's mostly Sudoku now. Sorry about that, Simon.
I love the puzzle type where not only do you need to figure out the digits, you even need to figure out the correct clues/rules. One cool puzzle like that had the grid full of grey lines and you had to figure out by yourself whether a grey line is either a renban or a german whisper.
42:00 I was stuck here for a long time. Played Simon, got to the point where his puzzle looked like mine (~42 min point) where I had been stuck for over an hour and see he has 10 minutes left in the video (in a bit of disbelief). Took him... 30 seconds to get that bump. Well done sir! I did get box 8 a bit quicker so I can hang my hat on that !! :)
14:04 for me. What a great puzzle, loved it!!
38:11, no Simon, we were not screaming at you for ten minutes, we were pulling for you for eighteen minutes. We were willing you to succeed.
I wasn't screaming at you in a negative sense, I was cheering you on from the other side of the pond to see the fake zipper. I don't pretend to understand solving these in public, so I applaud you finding it in the end!
Very smooth, thanks. The disparity between my solve times and the length of Simon's videos seems to gradually widen.
I think this was the first wrogn puzzle that I found quite approachable! I think I saw the very nice big steps along the solve much quicker than Simon did, but they still weren't easy and made for a perfectly difficult puzzle. Loved it, huge kudos to ViKingPrime!
How lucky are we, that live in the right time to witness these years of rapid evolution of sudoku variants, so well showcased by CTC, in which so many genius constructors have been giving birth to so many new or hybrid species?
Anyone else shouting through the screen: 5+6 is bigger than 9?
I was shouting that _at myself_ when I realised I had had it sitting there for several minutes and had completely failed to take it on board!
Metaphorically shouting. I did notice that about ten minutes went by in the video from the time I first noted that one could rule out a particular zipper to the point where Simon got it. EDIT: Actually, it was only about seven minutes.
I've yet to watch this one yet but wanted to drop a comment that I just rewatched your full Witness playthrough again, it got me through some long work hours this week, thank you for that (I work with my hands so have to occupy my brain 🤣) and your music box challenge run is still perhaps my favorite video of all you've done, just epic. 😁
I love this comment. That Music Box video is one of the ‘solves’ I’m most proud of/relieved by!!
Simon, you probably won’t see this comment, but this channel has meant so much to me in the year or so that I’ve been following along. So THANK YOU for all you do for the Sudoku community and have a Merry Christmas!!
I missed the logic at 21:55 I see why it has to be 2-8 or 4-6, but I don't see why the 2-8 can't be in either order. Why can only the right one be a 2?
Later at 26:10 it turns out to be true. With additional deductions, but I didn't see the logic earlier
"now let me go back to speaking in tongues" cracked me up
38:07 First time finishing a puzzle faster than Simon😮 Somehow I always looking at the right place to think and the secret help ALOT. Would not be faster if Simon look through the logic in row 7 lol. Reli great puzzle. I love it!
These wrogn puzzles always look like they are going to be a nightmare at the start, but once you latch onto the first couple of things they aren't so bad. I didn't spend too much "what on Earth do I do next" time.
Hi simon. I am studying mathematics at university. I think its no wonder that math professors watch your videos. There were quite some really satisfying deductions you madr about this puzzle!! Thank you for the Video+
Gotta love a Gass* puzzle 😃This was a brilliant example of Patrick's style and genius. He has a very distinctive feel to his puzzles: there is often a lot going on and can often be overwhelming at first to know where to look, but once you get on the right track it is full of beautiful gems. He's also one of the masters of the 'liar / wrogn' genre... he clearly really loves these sorts of puzzles and has become very slick at setting them. He just has a real knack for thinking of delightful little logical setpieces. So many pleasing ideas packed into one grid; even something as simple as 'this odd circle contains a 6, so it's lying and the other two must be true' is really satisfying to me, because it immediately lets you fill things in and leads to the next step.
Have throughly enjoyed doing a couple of collabs with ViKingPrime; it's really interesting because I think we have quite different styles and our brains work in quite different ways, but it's very fun seeing what a puzzle that is halfway between the two styles looks like. And I'm sure there will be more soon!
*that's his surname
I was waiting for you to make this pun! Collabing has been a blast - I've definitely noticed some improvement in my setting over time, thanks in no small part to your (often nefarious) influence. Well now, now that we've had this pleasant diversion, I say bring on the next Marty Sears feature!
Very well deserved feature for Viking Prime with all the work they put into liar and other ambiguity puzzles lately. Solved this back when it came out and the logic is fantastic. Also: "hooray zipper lines".
I love how complex thinking gets unraveled, yet the simple sudoku steps are the bane of your existence :D
Wrogn Puzzles are indeed one of my favourite type to watch on the channel. Got a good competitor when FoW came up though :D
At 10:55, not only can you state that r5's zipper line, but also r5's x, must be true. This means r5's V must be false. 10+4x does not equal 45 without decimels or fractions. Solved in 24:14.
I can't reasonably get frustrated with you for not seeing that bottom zipper couldn't be correct when I was stumped for even longer than you were because I forgot to place the 4 on the middle zipper and had to muddle through a ton of extra logic because I couldn't count to 7.
One minor thing you did miss, though, was that in row 5 the central zipper had to use both 1 and 3 no matter what, which makes the V impossible, no secret maths required.
37:54 Actions are more powerful than words.
Somehow i managed to solve it in only 19 minutes! But i loved every second of it, wrogn puzzles are really my favourites!!! Please keep them coming!!!😊
@30:28 "If this (the center of the lower zipper line) were 8 or 9, there'd be no pressure at all."
I just started laughing, having managed to solve the puzzle already before watching. I'm sure Simon will eventually notice Row 7's low digits. :p
Edit: Oh heck! It gets even worse when Simon pencil marks Row 7, and still doesn't make the connection that if the bottom zipper was real, it has to sum to at least 11, which isn't possible in a valid sudoku digit!
Aargh! Circles and two truths and a lie. The only thing I know about circles is that their logic is more reliable than mine, so this freaks me out just thinking about it!
Finished 49:32. I wish there was an easy way of marking things as correct and incorrect. Sometimes, I put in numbers to see if they work and then make a mistake because I assume my pencil markings are correct here....
Fun puzzle!
A facetious reply would be just don't put in anything that is incorrect. I can fill you in on my little secret as long as you don't tell Simon.
I'll sometimes color an empty cell, then fill in a "guess" that I hope to eliminate. This will lead to other deductions/markings that lead to other possibilities etc. until I get the desired conflict. Then back up to the colored cell and continue with one possibility eliminated.
I rarely set a speed record though. Now shh! Don't tell Simon that I bifurcate or I'm afraid I will no longer be one of his favorite people.
A facetious reply would be just don't put in anything that is incorrect. I can fill you in on my little secret as long as you don't tell Simon.
I'll sometimes color an empty cell, then fill in a "guess" that I hope to eliminate. This will lead to other deductions/markings that lead to other possibilities etc. until I get the desired conflict. Then back up to the colored cell and continue with one possibility eliminated.
I rarely set a speed record though. Now shh! Don't tell Simon that I bifurcate or I'm afraid I will no longer be one of his favorite people.
64:47. Fun puzzle. Very steady and interesting solve path. This was the first wrogn clue puzzle that I have really enjoyed.
52:47 - That was gorgeous; Funnily enough I’m struggling a bit with a different one I the series I picked up from LMG.
If that one is "Parallels", I would avoid that for now. Turns out that needs an update - definitely check out "A Deal with the Devil" though, should be of an equal difficulty to this, if you've been watching CtC and know some of the tricks.
Great - I’ll have a look at that. Call my Bluff was the one I’d been looking at.
@@titusadduxas ahh! A fabulous puzzle, tallcat is a brilliant setter. I would say once you start getting into the tallcats and the zetamaths of the world though, you're in for much more of a challenge. A good warmup would be the Pinocchio series by thoughtbyte - definitely start there, such a phenomenal set of puzzles.
Great; thanks. I’ll load them up to do on my flight to Buenos Aires tonight.
Just did Pinocchio II - thanks for the recommendation
45:50 for me.
Once you get to grips with 2 truths and a lie puzzles they can be so fun. Certainly need experience but like this one they can be pretty approachable.
I love the videos where I get to scream at the screen. This video was a great one for that.
Special day when a new truths and lies puzzle pops up
It’s funny how sorting the incorrect zipper was the very first thing I did. And the thing I got hung up on for ages was missing the incorrect white dot.
Brilliant puzzle! Smooth solution path too. Little tip that might come in useful for others, I used the pen tool with green marking the true clues and red marking the false, which helps as it doesn’t obscure the digits/clues too much
Great puzzle. A bit confusing at the beginning, but later quite approachable.
Screaming into the void about Simon not noticing the box 8 zipper couldnt be true for so long.
I finished in 33:53 minutes. This wrogn puzzles are so fun. They make me feel like a detective, slowly uncovering which ones are liars. I really liked the pathway on this with the two zipper and X clues in box 2 and 8. As always, it feels good to beat Simon's time. Great Puzzle!
Simpler way to see that the v in row 5 is a lie: once the central cell is a 7 or 8, the zipper line in row 5 always contains a 1 and a 3. 16/34 or 17/35.
So the V clue is impossible straight away because it can't have a 14 or a 23.
Box 8 was one of the first things I worked out, after concluding both "v's" in row 7 were correct. If the zipper in box 8 was correct, then it would HAVE to have at least one small digit on either end of the line.
23:19 for me. That was fun!
Other way I got column 5 - one option had 6 cells with top 3 center and X adding to 38 knocking out all the r8c5 options
37:30 ... I wonder how long it is going to take him to notice in rox 7 5+6 > 9 which makes the bottom blue line the incorrect line.
39:30... If only he had continued on checking the 49 he would have noticed with 4,8,9 there would be no way to make the positives x at all meaning it can not be an 8 and thus must be a 9 filling out a lot of digits since not the large line is forced to be the minimum.
There's some beautiful bit of logic in the central row, which Simon unfortunately doesn't discover since he solves the row by locating the 9 at 26:11. An 8 zipper sum would put a 46 pair in the white dot on the right, and a 5 on the white dot on the left, which would also need a 4 or a 6 on the dot.
Love it 👍🏻👍🏻
Can't beat a good bit of wrogn-ness! This one was surprisingly tractable, it took me 24 minutes, so either I've found some deductions a lot quicker than Simon, or he's spent a long time explaining his logic, or I've fluked a digit that I had no right to put in!
Wait, you know what? I think I've fluked it 😢.
*Spoiler*
I worked out from the start that the correct horseshoe-zipper had to have a 9 in the middle ... but I don't think that's the case ... why couldn't it be an 8 with 4x9 in the gap, or 7 with 8x9 in the gap?
Bum. That serves me right for feeling smug.
In my case, I first worked out that 89 in the central line broke the line, so the sum had to be 7. Then I figured out which horseshoe was correct. Finally, I saw that 849 broke the correct X below. One does need work to place the 9.
But, a well-placed mistake works wonders.
Actually, your reasoning is fine once the purple circles are sorted out. Once it is known that a two is needed in one of the purple circles in row 5, 7 and 8 become impossible for the middle digit of the correct horseshoe zipper. 7 is impossible because the 8x9 in the gap does not allow for a valid central digit in the middle zipper, and 8 is impossible because the 4x9 in the gap force a 7 as the central digit of the middle zipper, making the correct X impossible to fill. However, it doesn't seem possible to me to conclude at the START of the solve that the correct horseshoe zipper needs a 9.
Phew, from watching the video I can see that I didn't bypass too much logic, and that if I had correctly decided that the 9 was either in the middle of the genuine zipper OR on its corresponding lying X then it would have been fairly trivial to get to the correct answer.
38:30 How did I miss that?! I was totally with you, Simon, I didn't see that either.
Thank you for the birthday wishes! A wonderful present 🎉
Very enjoyable - ❤ the 🎅🏻hat!
23:46 ... very nice combos of clues to find the necessary deductions
Nice puzzle!
Have you ever considered setting up an eye tracker for a video?
I think it would be really interesting to see where your focus is and how quickly and in which pattern you scan the sudoku puzzles :o
38:00 i am one of the screamers.
At the 47 minute mark, you miss the 3 in box 4. Which also gives you and 8 in box 4.
In these '2 truths and a lie' puzzles, usually two of a common clue are in essentially the same arrangement (e.g., the 7-cell zippers here, the Xs in C5; an exception in this puzzle are the Vs in R7) and almost always but not always BOTH of those can't be true so you can go to the third one and mark it as true.
Santa Simon is coming toooo toooowwwnnnn… 😂
Yup ... for ten minutes I was screaming at the screen (not really) ... but as soon as the 1/2/3/4 were determined in R7, I could see that the zipper in box 8 was of the unreal variety🙂
Was shouting "Row 7" for ages!!! He got there in the end though. I saw it straight away which is unusual for me!
Beautiful, puzzle and solve. Thank you Simon and Viking Prime
I love these. They speak to me. 35 minutes!
1hr 12mins for me. I'm really pleased with my progress. It's slow but steady, getting better at these puzzles. Really enjoying the challenge they give me
47:32 for me. Interesting puzzle!
An unnecessary but beautiful observation, is that even before the orientation of correct zippers and X clues in boxes 2 and 8 gets determined, once you have the central 7 placed, you can eliminate 8 from the center of the other correct zipper, as along with the 894 it creates in the center column, there's additionally a 7 that would eliminate 46, 73, 82, and 91 from the correct X in the other box. Basically, it doesn't rely on determining box 8 had the incorrect zipper, or the eliminations from any other clues.
"I know for ten minutes some of you have been screaming at me."
Yes. Yes I have.
What a brilliant puzzle. So much fun to solve and a wonderful path of logic to follow. I really enjoyed it, thanks for sharing it.
Super frustrating when Simon didn't realize the bottom zipper couldn't be correct. It was made extra frustrating because it technically wasn't simple - you needed to realize all of the low digits were missing from that row before you could make that deduction. But he'd done the more difficult part! And then just had the easy part staring him in the face.
At the 32 minute mark, how can the zipper in box 8 be correct? Row 7 column 4 & 6 can be a minimum of 5 and 6 which is 11.
A really cool puzzle and not that difficult! 00:19:26 for me.
Sorry Simon but at 19:51 you could have seen it.😮 hidden in plain sight 😎such cool setting.. how can that zipper line in box 8 be true? The 2 true v clues break it
Solved in 40 minutes, quite proud of that time, ingenious idea and setting.
45:43 wrogn puzzles are always fun to solve
got stuck at the same part as simon and so now im here
The hat suits you, Simon
I really enjoyed this puzzle, and quite stoked i completed it! Thanks !!
24:34. Not cheating first I'd make the purple circle in cell 7 as a 2 to eliminate that as right since it looked the wrongest. That quickly led to determining the validity of other clues. To the point where I was thinking maybe that clue was correct. The puzzle did flow to solve itself. So to get to the point to determine that 2 in box 7 was correct, I'm not sure how long that would have taken.
EDIT. I would have easily figured it out because the two other purple were the same row so both couldn't be 2s.
Says "I take my hat off to this". Doesn't remove hat.
26:09, made a mistake early on and looked at the video to see where my error was (I had a 2 in r7c2, saw that r7c3 couldn't be a 3 with the arrow working, and thus ruled that the V clue was incorrect, not the arrow), but it flowed well from there. I'm usually horrible at these puzzles!
I did have a question near the end. Does an incorrect zipper line mean that NONE of the pairs could sum to the digit in the center, or could some of them work as long as there was a mistake somewhere else along the line?
In this puzzle, the answer to that turned out to be: "look at the digits you have written in to disambiguate a pair pencil marked in the same row, you fool!"
I think the general rule regarding a false clue is to ignore it -- except to avoid making it true. So it's okay to have some pairs sum to the central digit on a false zipper line.
@@JohnRandomness105 that's what I was thinking. Like, an incorrect thermo could be 1,2,3,5,9,8.