HELP! Why does the gay community seem to hate monogamous relationships?
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
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For Thomas, I'd say that the people who are questioning his monogamous long-term relationship are probably jealous that they've never found someone as committed to them.
It’s funny that monogamous people are the only ones complaining about it…. Also being monogamous is not something good or bad, it just is. Your arrogance is showing
@@jasonbrenagan7930Found the jealous person 😂
That's such an immature and blinkered way of looking at what people choose to have for themselves. Not all of us want to try and mimic what straight people do, or their lives ,
at the same time it doesn't mean that anyone has to abide by this old fashioned concept. if people do, then that's their choice.
I've experienced the opposite of whats being said, with monogamous gay people looking down their noses at those of us who chose not to do so.
It's nobody else's buisness how we choose to lead each others lives at the end of the day.
@@ladyjennyanytime5195You realize that the animal kingdom is full of varied animals that are monogamous? Are they part of this example of "what straight people do"? No. It's part of their nature. As it is with many humans whether they're straight or gay. I prefer monogamy and I couldn't give a sh*t what anyone thinks. I don't look down on those who choose other paths. As long as someone is not harming another being...that's their decision. But to call monogamy "something straight people do" is ridiculous!
@@dandyman9205
I never said that, you said THAT!
I suggest you re-read what i wrote, cuz you're twisting what i actually said!
Im talking about some Gay people that try and fit in cuz then they can turn around and say "Look we're just like you, we're good "normal" gays, not like the bad gays over there! Just so they think it gives them some kind of status and respectability and they can look down their noses at others in the community that choose to be poly or have open relationships.
Im not saying you're doing this , im not judging you or anyone else that chooses to be monogamous , what im giving is my own personal experience and opinion, which is just as valid as your opinion!
I don't know why you took what I said as a personal attack, i don't know you from Adam and vice versa!
Been in love with my husband for over 30yrs and we’ve been monogamous! No judgement on any lifestyle but we’re out here. Do whatever works for your relationship!
That's so lovely to hear! Thank you for sharing with us and congrats to you and your man ❤️
Same!
Amazing..Love it.
Rough estimates(and food for thought):
3-5% of mammals practice monogamy.
4% of mammals practice homosexuality.
BRAVO !!!
I've struggled my whole life with feeling like I don't fit in. I've felt looked down upon by straight people for being gay and then looked down upon by other gay men for wanting to have a traditional relationship. Thank you for creating this podcast and making me feel like less of an outsider.
I guess that makes two of us. I’m also an outsider who just doesn’t fit in the “gay norm.”
Don't worry about what people think or say...just be yourself and live your life your way.
I know an open relationship isn’t for me, but I wouldn’t judge anyone for having one. I have a friends who are a couple, they’ve been together for 15 years and got married last year. I also have friends who are in open relationships. As long as everyone involved is consenting and is clear on the boundaries, live and let live, I say
Thank you for being part of our little community! 💛
You're not alone...there are many of us here! I just don't surround myself with those who behave that way. Easy!
My husband and I just celebrated our 26th wedding anniversary and 28 years together. We had a non-legal ceremony and huge party with friends and family before it was legal or cool. Monogamy is the only that works for us. The gay couples we hang out with all share the same philosophy. For the most part, we don't enjoy hanging out with throuples and open couples since they are fundamentally different. As soon as they start the lecture on "missing out" with a third or hookups, we usually quit calling them. If they respect our monogamy, we respect their choices, but if they come for us, we boot them out of our circle. Our closest friends are long-term heterosexual couples and the "gay thing" simply isn't an issue. Love and let love! My hubby and I would love to hang out with Keegan and Joel. Hit us up if you get to Oregon, USA!!!
Congrats!
I’m in Oregon!
It’s kind of a shame that monogamy vs. non-monogamy should divide friends, but it’s kind of true. We’re a cishet gay non-monogamous couple who have been together for 36 years, and most of our gay male couple friends are also non-monogamous. I wonder how that sorting happens? We didn’t intend it.
Congratulations to your and your hubby, that's amazing!!
@@rabbitfishtv wtf is cishet gay? like literally? i see two conflicting adjectives there? cishetero gay? if u are hetero u are not gay and if u are gay u are not hetero
The hatred towards monogamous couples has always existed. I'm 64, in a closed relationship for 38 years, and this animosity has always existed. Even though we are very supportive of our friends who are not.
I'm gen z, gay, and I value monogamy. It is wild how so many people are happy to hookup *with no intention* of actually getting to know you, but those who are open to a genuine connection seem hesitant or afraid to admit what they truly want ^^
Yep! I'm a millennial and it's the exact same for the 30-40 crowd lol. Word of advice, if you don't want that, bail out and avoid it. Don't let it become your norm if you dislike it.
I'm with you 🎉
It's so weird to me that monogamy gets such a bad rap in the lgbt community. Like I'm Demisexual, we lose attraction to other people when we're into someone. I can only ever be with one person at a time. Not everyone is designed to be poly, and it's so rude that people want to be rude about it.
Nobody is designed to be poly. It’s just an excuse for selfish people to not grow up.
@@kjh4496 Seems like someone didn’t learn anything from the video
No need for rudeness we agree!
Same here...Well said.
@@kjh4496 preach. no actually don't think that way, BUT i do think there is a section of poly folks who do it simply because it is available to them and getting laid is always an option, so the idea of not having that option seems totally illogical and it's hard to find a reason to take away that option. i think it never crosses their minds once they realize they can get laid whenever they want.
I agree with everything you mention, and what some might criticize others for doing, just might be right for them at another point in their life.
I came out when I was 20 years old. It wasn’t a good time for me. My parents found out what I’d been up to in the last year. They forced me to admit I was gay and within a split second, they threw me out. I was given 30 minutes to pack what I wanted, leave my house and car keys on the table, and get out. The car had been a gift over a year ago. I was in shock as I dragged my luggage down the sidewalk to a pay phone to call my boyfriend. He raced to pick me up, and after an evening of crying, I had to grow up, fast.
I found a job at a high end restaurant, I’d never been a waiter before, but I learned quickly. I enjoyed being busy and it was fun meeting celebrities who dined with us when they were appearing locally.
It was a hard time for me, I had to say goodbye to two boyfriends during this time. One died of leukemia, and the other passed away from AIDS. I was beginning to wonder if I’d ever meet anyone to settle down with. It’s what I wished for, but in the 80’s, despite AIDS guys pretty much loved playing fast and loose. After losing 2 b/f’s, I kind of dropped out of night life. I started seeing a therapist who eventually convinced me I wasn’t the problem. Therapy appointments were every Thursday after work. I began taking myself out for dinner afterward, kind of treating myself well. One Thursday after dinner, I decided to wander into Tiffany. I was admiring everything, wondering who could afford anything. I felt a tap on my shoulder, I turned around to face a taller, darker, good looking guy with a mustache smiling at me. I thought “o.k., who’s screwing with me?”. He introduced himself, then asked if I “saw anything I liked?”. We chatted a bit more, then he asked if he could buy me a drink. I agreed, we found a booth at a pub. Lots of laughing, smiling. It was nice.
Four days later he called asking me to dinner, “anywhere I’d like to go”. I told him I was busy ( my favorite t.v. show was on Monday night ). He sounded disappointed. I asked for a rain check. After I hung up, I thought “I had been the biggest jackass”. I called him back and apologized. We had a wonderful night.
He told me he was leaving for Europe on Friday and if he could call me when he returned, I said that would be nice. Two weeks later a post card from London came in the mail. He wrote that he hoped we could see each other soon. Later that night he called, he sounded tired. A few days later he wanted to take me to his favorite place. Another fun evening. He told me more about himself. He also told me he was casually seeing 2 other guys. I didn’t have a problem with his seeing other guys. I wasn’t looking for anything serious. Several weeks later we were at a small nightclub. He was facing the door, he looked shocked for a second and waved to someone. He excused himself, then went to say hello to someone. He came back with a sheepish grin. One of the other guys he’d been seeing just arrived. He asked if I minded that he visited with the guy for a bit. I said no problem, just refill my drink every once in a while. I thought it was hilarious. He came back a bit later apologizing. While he was gone, he went to the men’s room. The other guy he’d been seeing was in there. So, I sat back and watched as he worked the room, on 3 dates at once. The other guys had no idea what was happening. It was quite entertaining.
We saw each other into the new year. Once when I was at his place, I noticed the book I gave him for Christmas on his bookshelf. I took it out thumbing through the pages. I noticed it was signed. One of the other guys he saw wrote in the book “Merry Christmas”. I laughed asking what was going on. “How many others did you get for Christmas?”. He turned red and said “3”. He said he told everyone he’d been dating about the book he wanted, he figured the odds were good somebody would get it for him. The copy I gave him was in his nightstand. It was a good laugh. He returned the 3rd book. It’s too bad he did, the book is worth over $300.00 now.
As we approached one year of dating, I asked if we could go someplace for the weekend. He was vague about it. He was no longer seeing the other two guys. I told him I wanted to be exclusive now. He was quiet. He said he’d think about it. We made plans to go away for a few nights. A week before he called. He sounded agitated. He said that he’d never dated anyone for a year before. He was unsure of everything, and wanted to know if we could still be friends. I told him things like that never work. We said goodbye. I was pissed.
A week later he called. He asked if we could talk more about us. I said sure. He apologized saying he panicked because he had never dated anyone this long. He also told me that he thought he would miss what I could bring to his life, and that I brought more good into his life than anyone before. He was a little teary, then asked if I’d take him back. I said I’d think about it. Then 10 seconds later I told him he’d better think of someplace more expensive to take me for our anniversary. He asked “why do I love you?”. I said “that’s your problem”.
We dated for 2 more years, then moved into a little house together. I miss that little house. We’ve moved 2 other times since. In the time we’ve been together, we’ve had 5 station wagons and 5 dogs.
Two years after we bought our house, I wasn’t feeling well. I didn’t know what to say. We went to a number of doctors with no luck. Finally I was scheduled for exploratory surgery. When I woke up in recovery, he was standing next to my bed, tears in his eyes, holding my hand. I thought “this doesn’t look good”. “It’s cancer”. Then the big tears came. I had stage3 cancer and had to start treatment immediately followed by surgery. I had oral chemo and radiation. My surgery was 8 hours long. There were complications and I was in the hospital for 2 1/2 months. I didn’t think I was ever going home. When I was finally released, my surgeon told us she was going to miss us. “In my entire career, I’ve never worked with a couple who were as devoted to each other as you two”. We didn’t know what to say. My husband has been by my side through everything, including another cancer diagnosis. I don’t know what I did to deserve him, but I thank god every day. In October we are escaping to a little cabin for our 34th anniversary. I wish I could go back and live every day over again. I love him so much
This brought tears to my eyes, what a sweet story about your love. Thank you so much for sharing this with us, it's so beautiful! ❤️
Beautiful
I'm saying this as a androsexual man: the community has gotten really toxic, it's almost impossible to find a sane, honest, kind and well adjusted man who's interested in a relationship.
Try the Unitarian Universalists, volunteering at "SAGE", a queer book store or coffee shop. Just steer clear of bars and hookup apps.
All about looking in the right places.
Part of the community is so obsessed with toppling the heteronormative patriarchy, and many of the same people are saying "why can't I find anyone who is serious about commitment?"
One of the MANY issues I have with our community.🙄 It’s hard to find men who simply want to be in a monogamous relationship. They’re all about two or plus and look down on us who simply want one. That’s ALL I want, just one.
You'll find someone who has the same values as you, just keep looking! 👀
Never settle. We attract what we believe we deserve. : )
My Japanese partner and I have been together for 48 years, and I did stray a very little with one other person when i had to work abroad for a year, but there was never any thought or chance of my ending the relationship. Sadly, my partner now has memory loss issues and I'm his carer but we're still tigether and very happy.
💙
Partnership is work. like two cell phones that have to synchronize regularly so that the operating system works. If you don't have any role models, you bring insecurities into your relationship.
On the other side is the community. The queer community has its own tradition of illicitity, shame, non-commitment and pressure from outside. like a pressure cooker or better, a micro biotope.
Monogamous couples disappear very quickly from the community once they have found each other. A friend once said that gay monogamous couples are like unicorns. Everyone has heard of them, but no one has seen them. And only the innocent with a rich heart can find it. 🤷🏻♂️
I always wanted a relationship as strong as my parents had. Loyal, honest, willing to go through fire for each other and open to addressing problems and finding a solution together. My husband and I have been in a marriage like this for 18 years.
I agree with everything you said. My husband and I have been together 34 years. I’m wondering if this is true for you. Over that time, we’ve been the target of envious people. They want we have so much they’ve actively tried to come between us. It’s happened a handful of times and we are always floored by it. We’ve lost friendships of many years over this, as if they were ever friends to begin with.
@@ATLcentury334 Yes, apart from my husband, I only have one best friend (gay) who I have known for a longer time.
I also know the other aspect. We always tell our son that family is like a good football team. Accept defeats and pick yourself up “together” and also celebrate successes together. I can say that even after years, you can fall in love with your partner again. Falling in love with the same person shouldn't be a one-time thing.
But we remain visible, for the puppies, at queer karaoke in our hometown 😂
Congratulations to you and your hubby! ❤️
If u don't value monogamy. I'll not date u.
Nothing wrong with that!
@@pridan94 yup!! 👍🏽 I’m not wasting my time with someone that doesn’t value that core relationship principle like me.
They might be good for someone else but not me
@@endswithme555 exactly
But you do date, yes?
@@plukenplok yeah. I'm single
Thank you both again. Love these applicable relatable ones. It's the infighting that really gets me and I hope we can all find ways to stand up to folks like things is dealing with, in a way that is considerate and I'm keeping with our integrity!
I’ve experienced both because I treat every relationship I have differently. I have had poly relationships, I’ve had open relationships, I’ve had relationships where I play with others but only with my partner and I’ve had completely monogamous relationships - I’m in the latter now.
When in open/poly relationships I got told A LOT that I didn’t love my partners by people I didn’t know very well or people I’d literally just met. How insulting is it to be told you don’t love someone you completely do?!
On the other side, in monogamous relationships I’ve had people try to come onto either me or my partner right in front of the other and not take no for an answer. Or say to me “well are they here” in response to being told I’m in a monogamous relationship when my partner wasn’t out with me.
In threesomes I’ve had people not respect the rules we clearly told them - like messaging one of us behind the back of the other. I’ve been on both sides of that too.
So basically, everyone is awful 😂 No seriously though, let and let live is spot on.
I would never live with a guy that was not monogamous. I would never share our bed with a guy who was not.
As a non-white gay guy, I’m thrilled out of my mind if someone agrees to go out on a date with me as that’s an extremely rare once in a decade event, so the option of multiple partners isn’t something to ever show up on my radar. That being said even if I was a desirable looking guy, I wouldn’t want an open relationship anyways as the attention from many don’t appeal to me. Due to my looks, I know I’m going to have to work really hard to keep my guy.
I bet you're cute.
DON'T believe the world's false notion of "beauty".
Disagree with the world and see yourself & beautiful. Plus there's so many tastes out there. U may be someone's exact "type" ;-)
I have been single for years now. As soon as I mention monogamy and fidelity everyone flees......well, as we say in my country: better alone that in bad company.
That's a good saying! 😂
they don't flee because they hate monogamy. They flee because they were either taught at an early age that a "real man" is not monogamous or because they are personally incapable of monogamy, often due to a substance use issue. .
@@FriendofDorothy also sad the dependency in Poppers.
Damn that's happened to me too
I'm gay and I am 21. I've dealt with straight people looking down on me for wanting to have a bf and I've had arguments with gays since I want a traditional relationship.
I do like having fwb, but I can't just sleep with anyone. Chemistry and looks play into it, just like how it would for a real relationship. I've been told that some of my close past fwb were basically my boyfriend when no, I don't see that as dating. I was sleeping with other people, and we never stated that we were dating in the first place.
I'm at a point where I say I have some conservative values in terms of relationships (aka monogamy) and I honestly can't help but look down on these people who say I was in a relationship when that's not a relationship to me!
Let me start by saying that I think everyone should do whatever makes them happy; no judgement. My experience has been that friends in open relationships don’t stay together. Again, no judgement, just not my vibe. My husband and I have been in a monogamous relationship for forty years. After many years in a big city, working stressful but successful careers, we retired to rural area. We sometimes get attitude from guys who think we’ve missed out on “the gay experience”. Our quiet life is exactly the “experience” we wanted. I love being in love with the man I fell in love with four decades ago. To each his own.
I had a friend who entered into an "open relationship" with another man, both of them bottoms. They got legally married but it was "open" so guess what happened? One has ED caused by diabetes so he didn't play around much but "hubby" was catting...so they grew apart to the point of nearly hating each other in the end. I won't say how it ended for them as it was very tragic, but their relationship reminded me why I think "open relationships" are a crock. I also am a person who will NOT respond to any hook-up site profile in which a man identifies himself as "MARRIED".
You are living mu dreams Life
I am glad you found a happy quiet life. That is exactly what I always wanted. I am happy in a relationship in a quiet remote place, but it just isn't sexual. We are not in an open relationship but we just don't seem to have the passion, although we enjoy living together and both enjoy the quiet life. I am not sure what the answer is but I can't say I am not happy, and it seems he is content too. But I think that as soon as a relationship becomes open it is on shaky ground. I would never tolerate him bringing back guys to the house. If he did it discretely especially as we have stopped having sex, I don't know.
I’m gay and in my late 40s. That means I was a young gay kid in the 80s. It was awful. The gay abuse was insane. At school one kid told another kid not to talk to me as he’ll get AIDS. But never forget we have the rights we have today because straight people have also evolved with the times. Straight men today are not the straight men from 1985. And that is why I get furious with this term “heteronormativity.” It’s purpose is to belittle and mock. The narrow, time and culture trapped straights who know nothing and who conform. Oh that evil word “conform.” The arrogance of it, as if “non-conforming” people actually know what other people need or should be like. And so, the actual problem is gay and queer normativity, which is as conservative as their idea of what heteronormativity is. Besides, having 2 kids and a Volvo station wagon is not a crime - if that is the idea of normativity. And also, I quite like a Volvo station wagon…
Very true!!
Born in 1968. The 80’s was hell on a gay kid.
really love this.
also late 40s, i despise it when some queer 20 or 30-something has the audacity to tell me how to be gay or be queer. the worst are hetero and or queer wannabes who are deeply clueless who still try to point me in some right, yet still nebulous direction. i was out before their STRAIGHT fucking (no pun) parents even met !
I am a 63 YO gay man who was brought up conservatively, poor, and rural. I married my high school sweetheart; we were together for 9 years. After I came out, I had a male partner for almost a decade. I was monogamous in all my relationships and it never felt like I was 'missing out' nor did I want to cheat. I broke up with my male partner because of the toll his non-monogamy took on me (i.e., he wanted to fool around with other men, I didn't stand in his way, the rule was he had to tell me and play safe). After bringing home scabies to me a couple times, and then crabs, and then told me he had non-protected penetrative sex...I did not hesitate to kick him out. We were the HIV generation and it was deathly frightening.
Good for you. Empowerment 👏
There will always be monogamous, heteronormative gay and lesbian couples because that’s what works for them. And there are a lot of straight couples in polyamorous relationships too. All kinds of people exist, this is literally the point of live and let live.
Monogamous gays are one thing, heteronormative gays another.
Exactly!
Why are you implying that monogamous relationships are a heterosexual thing? That's my question. Because they're not. Relationships and monogamy are for ANYONE who want it. Has nothing to do with sexuality.
@@dandyman9205 Actually I disagree with you. There's no denying that withing the LGBT community, mainly gay men monogamy is a minority and monogamy originally stemmed from hetero normative values of marriage. Polyamorously and multiple partner sex has been spearheaded by the gay community hence that's why it's seen as 'gay'. The point in case is that the gay community has recently harassed monogamy and monogamous relationships to the point where it's taboo and to the point it gets challenged everyday. It's like saying gloryhole aren't a gay thing because straights partake in it when actually they're more synonymous with gays that straights of course there are exceptions to the rule but it's more likely than not
@SM-ul9er I'm well aware of where the concept of marriage came from; but that also doesn't explain the innate nature in many species to be monogamous...and the fact that there are "homosexuals" within all of the animal kingdom. This is much more complex that just saying monogamy is a heterosexual thing. I guess it depends on the region one lives in as to what is most common. What is "most common" in my life is gay couples who are monogamous. I'm not bashing others for their decisions...but to be so flippant about why a person chooses monogamy is the problem! I live a very healthy gay monogamous life, and there are MANY reasons for it :-)
I just came out of an 8 year open relationship. I will tell you this, NEVER again. I do don't want to be in one. It is toxic. Other gay guys see it as a game or something! Why are you inviting guys already in a relationship on a date or asking them to sleep over yours! Like what are you doing??
Thank you for dealing with this topic. I have also noticed that trend and do not find it something good. Just today, i read a homophobic comment by a probably heterosexual person telling me that "gay" does not include love but would only be sex and lust. And i tried to counterargue it by my own personal experiences. However, it is difficult when loud parts of the community are giving exactly this impression.
I would have thought a gay relationship is like a straight relationship to the point the relationship is what you make it, between the two people in the relationship and if that's in an open or monogamous relationship that's your business.
The Reform party wanted to get rid of the Equality Act which would have affected us all.
We are all different and why do people mind what other people do in their lives.
I think the number who want open relationships is dramatized I know far more that would like nothing more than to be monogamous and be in a relationship and only tolerate “the scene” when they much rather escape it once they find someone to settle with
Speaking for myself, I would never enter in a non-monogamous relationship (i am currently in a 7 years relationship, and I have never been unfaithful. And I believe many people do want the same.
Me and my boyfriend are monogamous ( cannot imagine another kind of relationship for myself honestly ) , and he is American and I am Italian , we see each other every 3 months , some of my friends tell me , how can you do that , meaning how can you stay without sex for so long , but honestly I cannot even think of doing it with someone else , I love him .
I’m an old queen from the 80’s and in my day my partner and I were considered attractive. That being said we were totally monogamous and could not have been happier. Those that have a problem usually just want what you have.
Than you for once again demonstrating that we can agree to disagree and still get along with each other. Keep up the good work.
Thank you!
I embrace what comedian Sommore once said, “F*** wit’ me, stick wit’ me”. I would want a monogamous relationship because I just can’t do it with worrying about whether my partner’s going to bring home an STD, how his stepping out will affect our household and finances, whether the person that he fools around with will cause some drama, feeling self-conscious that I’m not young or good enough, etc. Even when I was younger, I still don’t think I would’ve had the energy for what I just described. I couldn’t even imagine myself in a polyamorous relationship. I could barely focus on one person with life's daily trials…now I must devote attention to multiple partners? Thanks for the informative video, guys!
I love hearing about the monogamous, gay relationships out there because it's something I want and it gives me a bit of hope being reminded that they do exist - although it seems rare now days. Quality over quantity! Good video, guys.
i have a good advice for anyone struggling to find relationship through dating platforms, to remind you that not everyone uses those platforms as they are inherently based on a bit shallow values which many find exhausting to use. so its better to just connect with lots of people online or IRL through shared interests. that way you build friendships in the process
Married 9 years. Together for 32. Wouldn’t have it any other way. ❤
Amazing! Congratulations 💛
As a priest who has married many couples, I can affirm that there are many gay couples that are monogomus. Each couple should determine for themselves, but please do not think that gay couples cannot remain faithful. You may not be finding many because the couples are focusing on homelife together. Blessings!
The whole "monogamy" thing, so far as gay relationships go, has been around since the year dot.
I've never had a really long term relationship, but my short ones have been (certainly from my side) monogamous. I once heard a female sex therapist say that "gay sexuality, is just _male_ sexuality, with the lid off!" I think she had a point.
The thing with the gay community is that sex is literally everywhere and we (some of us) act like kids in a sweet shop. And, some people find that very difficult to give up, when they enter more committed relationships. Some, just don't want to. Just look at the number of guys on Grindr, etc. who are advertising themselves as "being in an open relationship and looking to play with others!"
You're _so_ right about the str8 world too. More and more, str8 couples are experimenting (look at the dogging scene) with more open relationships. And, I agree, some animals _are_ monogamous, but our closest relatives, the bonobos, will have all kinds of sex, at the drop of a hat?
In the end, it's a cliche for a reason. Whatever works for the couple, is fine by me.
There's no point in judging, either way!
STDs may be a good teacher that Temperance & Moderation in all things is Healthier.
Not morally superior. Nice ppl both ways. Just Healthier physically. Mpox, HIV, fungus, scabies, the list goes on.
Doesn't have to be just 1.
But @ the very least limiting # is healthier.
If one comes to it at 100s and 1000s of partners.... that's just asking for another epidemic
Not sure if you guys have done a video about internalised queer shame, but that shame manifests itself in all kinds of wonderful ways from emulating heteronormative standards and hegemonic masculinity (overcompensation) to hedonism and commitment phobia (avoidance) to self-deprecation and humiliation-seeking (surrender). Hence the dynamic of two partners, whether in a monogamous or poly or open relationship, is more complex than simply being “traditional” vs “progressive”.
This is so spot on. As a 36 year old monogamous gay man, I constantly get shit from other gays. I've heard almost every attack under the sun. Other gay men often tell me that being gay and monogamous is impossible, despite me having 2-3 long-term relationships that were monogamous. I'm single now, and I find it super hard nowadays to find a gay partner who doesn't want an open relationship. And I'm sorry but I'm not willing to change the way I feel, just to be with someone. But monogamy in the gay community in general is definitely under attack and it's scary. I don't feel like I fit in with the gay community anymore because I can't express the fact that I like monogamy. It's sad.
im grateful for these opinions... too often the loudest voice support things that aren't healthy.
Great episode guys! Thanks for keeping this awsome channel going!
Thank you! ❤️
@@happyhealthyhomo This problem seems made up I am not convinced there is any serious animosity against monogamy in the gay community. Moreover monogamy is completely normalized while alternatives are not.
You guys are angels and you don't know it. Your shows are so heartening to this gay man. I really appreciate you supporting monogamy. It's a great thing and right for a lot of people. Huge hugs guys.
Thanks for profiling this topic. For what it's worth, my husband and I just celebrated our 30th anniversary. Monogamous. Happy. In love. Works just fine. Rgds from western Canada.
Just discovered you guys and this was the first vid i've watched, thank you for addressing this, feels nice to hear sane perspective on the subject
I just left a 14 year monogamous marriage because my husband cheated on me because I refused to open the relationship.
Good for you for standing up. When will those people understand that open and poly relationships have more cons than pros from several scientific perspectives?
They cannot even handle one person, and they think adding will fix their problem. 😂
@@MixedHand
Thankyou for your kind and pragmatic words. You make a strong point around the cons to having an open relationship. Something that I do not believe in.
@@yianniathanasopoulos
Never settle. Life is too short.
@@jmc8076thank you 😀
You'll find someone better
Love y’all’s intro! It’s always so up beat and happy! I’m learning a lot from y’all! Thanks for sharing 😊
Thank you for the support! ❤️
Keegan, HRH Prince Joel and BTS Harry, this was an interesting and contentious topic. I loved how at the end Keegan provided the best piece of advice that should be made into a meme. I paraphrase it for it goes something like this: Every single opinion you have in your mind does not need to be expressed verbally or shared with friends by text or released into the world via social media. You have the ability (but perhaps not the resolve or fortitude) to keep it to yourself. In short, you are not as witty, clever, brilliant, righteous, self-righteous, thought-provoking, always right all the time as you think you are.
It is factual that everyone has an opinion but not every opinion is factual.
I'm looking forward to reading the comments on this topic.
Very well put thank you! 😂
I appreciate your comments on relationships of gays. I believe in monogamy. I was in a relationship with one man for 15 years until he decided he wanted to experiment. It was not for me. I have been with my now love for 19 years of which the last 7 we have been married. We find this the best for us. And like you we are the judges of others. I am 74 and my husband is 55..... Thank you for your podcasts!!!
Thank you for your comment and your support! 19 years is amazing, congratulations!
I think because, down to earth, they really want that kind of relationship too, but have no idea how to obtain it.
That could be so! 🤔
I'm bisexual, and I am strictly monogamous. Anything else is disgusting.
It seems that, for the gay community, open relationships are "the new black". As a 49yo gay man I´m struggling to find someone that belives in monogamy. Really sad!
From where I come monogamy is more reserved for str8 people(only on outside lol) and for LGBT people over 30-35. When you come to certain age and find right person there is no need to go around. Minority is lucky if they find someone in their 20ties, but majority of young relationships, both str8 or gay end up eventually coz of lack of maturity, communication etc. Once when you know yourself, fix your own issues and you are in good place in your own head and feel good in your skin, have self respect and self awareness and you love yourself, then eventually with time the right person just happens without even looking for them and you find yourself in monogamous relationship.
I changed so many partners in last 20 years, men, women, trans coz I was so scre%d up in my mind and not facing my own issues and demons that i could not function by myself and than i was not able to function with anyone else. When I finally sort myself out, started to go to therapies, take my meds and accept i suffer from c PTSD since age 9 i suddenly was different person. Stabile, happier, aware of myself, understood myself, knew wha i want and where i done wrong. And just like that the right person showed up when I was not looking for anyone. Craziest thing is he was whole time in front of me last 7 years in circle of friends...
I hate when anything about people is labeled as 'normal'. That word is a setting on the clothes iron and the dryer. Unless they're dating a laundry appliance, nobody has the authority to judge others. Those who disagree should be locked in the laundry room with a box of condoms until they've learned this valuable lesson.
"a setting on the clothes iron and the dryer." thats so funny! 🤣
I use to be like open relationship bleh. But I now understand that that just means it’s not for me and my partner. However, in the same way that I want Grace and understanding for being gay is the same way I should extend Grace and understanding for people who are in relationships unlike mine.
It’s good to see long term gay monogamy out here. Let’s me know that I’m not crazy for what I want outta life. Even though mainstream gay culture seems to be the opposite.
It all boils down to letting people live life how they want to. Thank you for sharing with us! 💛
It seems that the younger generation has coined this "Hetero-normative" thing and like all of the other millions of labels they want to create to differentiate themselves to the point of alienating themselves so they can continue to feel alienated. They're so focused on being "individual" instead of recognizing the similarities we have that can unify us!
Great subject, thank you.
After 24 years together I left my partner as he didn't realise I was in a monogamous relationship and I didn't realise he wasn't.....It was hard to leave someone I still had strong feelings for. Luckily we're now friends again, but we do now live 250 miles apart, and I kept the dogs.
At least you have the dogs! 🐶 😂
You kept the good dogs. Not the bad dog. Lol.
I agree with everything you guys said in the video. If I were to add my opinion on the matter, I've really disliked the term "heteronormativity." I understand where it comes from and why it exists, but I have a gripe with it because, at least the way I interpret it, it makes it sound as if certain aspects of human behavior or ideologies ONLY belong to a certain group of people and folks outside that community are "mimicking" the behavior. For instance, to say that a gay monogamous couple with children following the traditional nuclear family structure is being heteronormative just doesn't make sense to me. Why does it have to be heteronormative, why can't it just be what it is, a family, and that's that. It's what works for that couple and they aren't really doing it with the thought of "we are just going to mimic what the tradition of heterosexual couples do." Anyway, I'm just rambling.
Thanks for your sharing your point of view, guys. Love your podcast.
Very true points you have here, thank you!
ON POINT 👏 👏
"Heteronormative" is a stupid and meaningless word. It's human nature, beyond gender, to want something stable and supportive in life that will be a safe place for emotions and someone to count on. And nature itself shows via STDs that fewer partners is healthier. Nothing to do with being straight.
I could take the same word and use it back on them :
Is it not "heteronormative" to have penetrative sex ? Is penatrative gay sex not just mimicry of straight vaginal sex ? I mean is being a "side" more in alignment with being gay, since for millenia hundreds of years past... the most common gay sex was oral and mutual masterbation.
How do u think they would respond to my use of the word in that context 🤔? Lol
Tom and I have been together 13 years. At the beginning I was adamant about monogamy, which he didn’t think he could do. I said we’d have to just be friends then. He didn’t like that either, he agreed to monogamy, and I felt terrible b/c I felt I was clipping his wings. A few weeks later, I found myself fooling around in the sauna at the gym. We agreed to “open” the relationship, but all we do every now and then is some messing around in the sauna or steam room at the gym after a workout (we belong to different gyms). And we don’t even do that much anymore. I think it was giving each other our freedom (which I initially didn’t want) that made outside sex less titillating and tantalizing, and conversely we became better sexual partners to each other.
Thank you for sharing with us 💛 that's what worked for you and Tom and we are glad it did! People should have the freedom to do what works for them, without judgement
Who cares what some gay men think about gay couples who choose to be monogamous? And why would any monogamous gay couple care about what those gay men think?
I feel like part of it is that for so long these things like being able to have a public long relationship and getting married and/or having kids, were denied from us and so there's this self denial element of thinking we're not worth these things and so we had to do the opposite either to protect ourselves or to be as seen as something political or radical. I feel also that it's interesting how we have this attitude in the community and yet most of the gay media is central around monogamous love stories.
I think that's 🤔 a good thing. The Media portraying it that way may good subliminal messaging to gay youth. That yes, they can if they want, have that loving relationship and lifestyle too. It's a counter-weight to the common notions within the community that "monogamy doesn't exist". Etc.
What I really love is when they say it's "unnatural". Can u imagine. People used to say that about gay ppl. And now other gay ppl hurling that against couples that don't want to be open?!
Odd.
@@TwinFalls88 I think it's good that gay media portrays tgat as it is something I believe in being monogamous. Part of the problem is that we allow so much in fighting within the community which allows those who want to limit our rights to take advantage of it.
@DJWhovian I also think we prioritize being "in the community" too much. For example: if it was between a straight Democrat & a gay Republican 🤔
Easy: I'd vote for the straight Democrat any day. Because alliances and friendships go beyond superficial identarianism. Groups hold stronger that are based on IDEAS, not identities.
And so by 2050, there will luckily b less of a isolated "community". Its already begun to dissipate. & Instead, by then - more fully integrated into the larger society. That way one can make friends based on compatability & character & mutual interests. Not just identities.
Okay I have a lot to say about this lol. Sometimes the way the gay community acts between each other or heterosexual people makes me think of that scene in the Hungers Games (bear with me haha) where they have finally won over the capitol and the first thing they want to do is keep doing the hunger games but this time with the members of the capitol. It feels SO regressive!
Didn’t we fight to be a part of society and be accepted for who we are? Then why are we policing or making other people feel shitty for their life choices? If you don’t want to conform to the “heteronormative” (which I think is such a silly concept) then that’s awesome, more power to you, but for the love of RuPaul, let others live their lives however they want to as long as they’re not hurting others. It’s so frustrating having to justify your existence to closed minded people and then having to do it inside your “community” as well is extremely exhausting.
This is me being way too optimistic but here’s an option: why don’t we let others live their lives, celebrate their happiness, and mind our own business? Each person knows what feels and works best for them.
Okay that was a lot, thanks if you read this far.
Att: a random gay on the internet
“For the love of RuPaul” love it 😂😂😂
Exactly! Your Hunger Games analogy is spot on!
The conversation surrounding monogamy within the LGBTQ community like must things is fluid and not strictly one way or the other.
Yes there are some within the community who see monogamous relationships as a strictly heterosexual type of relationship, but there are also many within the community who disagree, myself being one of many who disagree.
I think the issue lays mostly with societies obsessive need to apply labels to everything. Like applying a gender to toys,clothing, physical and mental activities, mannerisms and so for. We also apply labels on things based on sexuality. This is what straight people do, how they act, things they say and so on, and this is what gay people do, how they act, things they say and so on. For some LGBTQ people, monogamy is just something that straight people do, not gay people.
Just like applying gender to things is stupid, so to when applying sexuality to things. Just do what works for you and makes you happy and the hell with what others think or say 😊
True. "Heteronormative" is a word without meaning used in whatever context one wants.
You're right. Human nature can be for monogamy. And human nature can be for other styles.
Has nothing to do with gay vs straight.
European bisexual here. Honestly, I see the same in heterosexual women. People just don't want to commit these days. Only committed to Number 1. But I prefer people to be up front about it rather than lie because what they really want is a social taboo. 🤷
Thanks for this video. I needed to hear all this. 🙏🏻❤️🩹
This is an interesting one. Ive been with my husband for 23 years. Most of the gay "family" we have, are in similar long term relationships (one couple now approaching 40 years) .Yet two of our mates are in a poly of three and have also been long term of 8 years+ . We have never experienced any such "back lash" . Reality is - you do you and what works for you. Criticism distracts from the wider issue which is - we are as a community are increasingly threatened. We agreed social media is a major superficiality and distorts who we are.
Exactly, just do what works for you and ignore the rest! 💛
As a younger gay guy I've messed around since my belief in finding a relationship is pretty low at this point due to the non monogamous pressure. Genuinely where do you find people who want the same thing? Our dating pool is small already, and as a person of color im often seen as nothing better than a fetish for fun but not to date.
You're looking in the wrong places.
Don't do bars or hookup apps.
Maybe like okay cupid or eharmony?
Better yet a queer coffee shop or book store. A volunteer agency for glbtq. Places that have deeper & more serious minded people. Not grindr. Not the bar. Other places instead. And be very clear with what you want upfront. That way you can weed out that want something different.
I have been with my partner for 25 years and we are monogamous. But it’s absolutely none of my business what other people do. It annoys me that other gay men are judging other men. We’ve had enough judgments from bigots over years. Without the community joining in. It’s up to the individual and their partners, no body else. Imho.
True. It's sad at times when the victim becomes an oppressor. Internalized traumas. They become like the bullies that bullied them long ago.
YT suggested this video to me. I had not realised the gay community had this struggle of monogamy being frowned upon. I am a straight woman, in a monogamous relationship since 13 years now with my husband. I think everyone should have the freedom to live the relationship the way they want, whether they're straight, gay, bi, or any sexual orientation. No one should force polyamory or monogamy on anyone. The people who are to decide the terms of the relationship are those in the relationship.
I have an open relationship, but not for any moral grandstanding reasons. My relationship began at a moment where we didn't think we would be able to stay together due to having to move apart, so we didn't want to commit to anything. Then here we are 10 years later, and since the openness was never a problem, we didn't bother changing it.
Still, I find the gays that bang on about "heteronormativity" to criticise monogamous gays incredibly annoying. What they fail to understand is that the reason why it seems as though gay men are "supposed" to have non-committal, open relationships is because, for pretty much the entire history of the human race, one man openly committing to and living with one man was a sure fire way to get yourself imprisoned or killed. It's got nothing to do with "gays aren't supposed to be monogamous" and everything to do with homophobia preventing them from successfully having such relationships.
In my view, their view is a symptom of the privilege of a group of people who haven't had to fight at all to be with the people they love, and frankly, I've got no time for it.
this is unpopular opinion, but i think the whole "monogamy is for straights" and promiscuity in the gay community may stem as coping mechanisms for being denied rights to marriage for decades and homosexuality seen as a crime. it's almost self-destructive behaviour. this coming from someone in his 40s who've seen big societal changes when it comes to homosexuality and politics.
That's a very interesting point, thank you for sharing with us all!
Thank you for this video! I agree with you guys.
Thank you so much for this video. I definitely prefer monogamy because of the deep intimacy I can't get from more casual relationships. Monogamous relationships are so worth it for me.
Thank you for sharing that with us - it's all about doing what feels right for you 💛
You're awesome. Thanks for doing a gay podcast that has a different angle.
Always interesting, thought provoking and entertaining as ever.
I guess the vision in ones mind is easier to accept than the vision in others mind.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it 💛
Bang on let’s stop judging and what ever works for you go for it.
I have friends who never found a long term partner now in their 50’s and 60’s they still have friends but often say they are lonely.
My husband are have been married 3 years and together 7 it was important to both of us to be not in an open relationship. It works for us. Happy as ❤
That's beautiful! Congratulations to you and your husband! 💛
Married since 2014, together for 25 years. Open. Mostly because my partner is 13 years older and in his 70s. His drive for sex is significantly reduced from mine. We are cool woth monogamous couples as well as open.
25 years!! Wow that's amazing, congratulations!
My theory is that gay relationships were "taboo" for so long, they kind of melded with other "taboo" relationships like open/poly.
I’ve seen my share of judgmentality from both sides of this subject over the years. I think scared primates just like to be judgmental.
You know what's funny about the people who say "gay men are always going to sleep around, even if you think you're monogamous one is cheating"? that's exactly what my very religious and homophobic father said to me ten years ago. Somehow the rhetoric has horseshoed to the point that the two extreme views are the same.
Edit: forgot to mention that I've been in a monogamous relationship for 6 years now. And I've never in my life been in or even entertained the possibility of an open relationship. Seems absolutely bonkers to me.
What a horrible thing for your father to say to you 🙁 glad that you're proving him wrong!
LOVE ! This perspective. OMG what you said about that paradigm "horseshoeing" is brilliant 👏
You're deep!
To each their own. Similar to Thomas, if you prefer a non-monogamous approach to relationships, great. If you do great.
Honestly, it comes down to what you personally want out of a relationship.
I've know I wanted monogamy sense I was 15. I'm almost 40 and I haven't changed my mind about that. If anything I want it more.
Point is, to some degree, there are people who can't understand limiting yourself to one sexual partner. Regardless of being in love.
Which is fine. I feel the same way.
I can't see being comfortable with random strangers and hookups. Everyone has different values and experiences sex differently.
Neither is right or wrong. It just is.
But, agreed, your way isn't better, nor do you have any right to shame others.
Thank you so much for this video. My partner died almost two years ago. I am older and I prefer monogamy. I learned so much about myself and others by working on a deep, long term relationship. Also, I don't get the intimacy I need from casual relationships.
We're so sorry for your loss, that is very hard to go through ❤️
It's sad that young gay teens are influenced to think they have to have a gym bod, use party drugs, be promiscuous and be in open relationships.
This is definitely a “live” issue. Married and monogamous in a town where other gays actually seem to bristle with resentment when they meet us and find out our status.
I’ve tried to sit patiently while guys lecture me (uninvited) about heteronormativity, etc., but it gets annoying. It’s not that my husband and I have a perfect sex life, or don’t think throuples and orgies and whatever sound exciting, or that we ascribe to some rigid philosophical idea. Nope; we just happen to be monogamous at our own whim and by our own choice.
We aren’t the enemy and there is no plot or judgement, here. Sorry.
I prefer monogamous relationships . Hope to find someone meant for me ❤
Completely agree and I also think no one should judge anyone. I have been in a monogamous relationship for the last 18 years and it suits us just fine. Prior to that I was not in long-term relationships and tried everything!
Congratulations on 18 years together, that's amazing! ❤️
@@happyhealthyhomo Thank you. We met when I was in my early 40s, which is great timing as I'd already slept with anyone else I might have wanted to!
I have heard from married male gay couples that they often cannot have many single male friendships due to the perception of potential cheating. This situation is similar to that of a straight married couple, where a man having single female friends might not be approved of by his wife. So, while a married straight guy can enjoy a "night out with the boys", a married gay guy often can't.
I respect people living their own lives. If you're polyamorous, you do you. Why then are they critizicing how I want to live? This is applicable to everything, not just relationships.
I was doing a clients hair and they said they needed to be home by a certain time for a delivery. They were going to a party and asked if l would like to come after a prior commitment. I said no. Turns out the delivery was a dominatrix outfit. All l can say is WHEW.
For me there's another story though here in Indonesia. I'm still single almost 4 years because I just want someone who doesn't want to get married with woman at the end of the day/relationship. There so many guy who I like or approach me first, we're clicked yet mentioning that someday will getting married with woman and (must) having baby.
I know it's because Indonesia majority are Muslims. Also most of the company or corporate "must" have family if you want to have stable positions in that job. I can't imagine if that guy is a pure bottom and having a normal life while being a bottom outside the house. It's often that they will say "I'll leave all my gay friends and this lifestyle" yet one month or more after the wedding they will comeback cause they can't be true to themselves.
I'm valued 100% monogamy and still will be
Bear and forbear
Give and forgive
Live and let live.
I feel there's also circumstances that would be fine w/ one partner that aren't with another. I've had exes that it was monogamous only and I had one where he traveled for work for large chunks of time and it wasn't working for either of us not having any intimacy for weeks... really it boils down to stay out of other people's bedrooms and what works for them isn't going to work for you.
One reason could be: There is a certain gay sexual act that a lot of people don't like to think about. Many men don't mind doing it with strangers (hit and run), but with a regular partner it may make them feel shame, or if they are seeing gay couples then they will naturally think that they are doing it on a regular basis. That goes for straight people too. They don't like to think about it.
Interesting point! Thank you for sharing ⭐️
Live and let live, what ever works for individual relationships.
I find it hard to believe that people in an open relationship want that equally - from the couples I know always one over the other. Maybe I am wrong.
What I think is staggering is the number of gay men who want to ‘fit in’ to the community. Consider the difference between fitting in and belonging. Sadly I feel like I do not truly belong, since it seems the vast majority (again from my own perspective and the gay people I know) are ‘polyamorous.’ Can you imagine your parents in an open relationship?
I am strongly opinionated on the topic because I simply do not believe that the majority of the community is truly polyamorous, and it limits the dating pool. There’s nothing wrong with having more conservative values and honestly I think things have gone way too far! If you’re open and happy, great. But I will continue to lean on the side of judgement because I do believe such a set up would result in emotional suffering of someone. The bar is literally monogamy guys, desperate times 🤣
@@seangray6708 To play devil's advocate for a moment, plenty of monogamous relationships end in suffering for someone as well. Why be judgemental about one and not the other?
@@phuttyyt you’re right, but by virtue of monogamy commitment to your partner is a core (and human!) value. People are hurt when that trust is broken. I don’t believe an open relationship circumvents that, because if you are openly uncommitted you remove trust all together… what kind of relationship is that at all? I am sure there are a minority of ‘couples’ who are equally happy in such a set up, but I would argue it is merely that - a set up of convenience. The fact it is the majority of the gay community is indicating that there are many ‘fitting in’ over fear of judgement, and I cannot see how that does not breed suffering. I get the impression from the open couples I know they are deeply unhappy.
@seangray6708 Are you sure that impression is correct, or is it you projecting your own assumptions/prejudices? I'm not having a go at you, BTW - it's a genuine question. The open couples I know well enough to have more than a mere impression reinforce for me that equal and honest open relationships can and do work. I'm not naive enough to assume that's the case for all, of course. But then I'd argue that it's *not* a fact that [unhappy] open relationships are the norm in the gay community these days anyway. I wouldn't even say open relationships are the norm, at least where I live in Europe: it seems to be a fairly even mix of single guys, guys in open relationships and guys in monogamous relationships. I also think you're conflating two things in this argument in assuming a lack of commitment to a person as a whole if you're in an open relationship: as I've said elsewhere in these replies, the guys in equal and honest open relationships I know are very much committed to each other emotionally, as partners or husbands; the fact that they occasionally have NSA fun with other guys they don't have any emotional attachment to doesn't undermine that, and from what I know about them it doesn't mean they don't also have and enjoy sex with their partners either. Again, I know there can be an emotional and sexual imbalance in some open couples, but if there is, it's not an equal and honest relationship in the first place. And that can be as true of straight couples as it is of gay ones.
Yes.I don’t get it when people frown on mono relationships.
Heteronormativity as a whole is also usually historically a husband forcing a woman to marry and live with him even if she doesn’t know him or want to. Men oppress women with marriages
Okay. First; every couple has the right to work out what kind of relationship works for them. That's EXACTLY the same as for straight couples. That being said, I've heard a lot of guys say if you claim to be monogamous, then you're not being honest. They are thinking that is the case for gay guys AS WELL as straight guys. BUT; I've also had a gay friend saying that the concept of "modern marriages" (aka open relationships) is what's messing up his search for a faithfrul partner. I said to him; as I did here; EACH couple gets to define their relationships exactly how they wish. Don't make the mistake of thinking that most or all hetro relationships, are monogamous. They arent. Some are, but not all.
BOTH ways are natural. It's rude to imply monogamy is "unnatural". Isn't that a word straight ppl has hurled at gays?
@ end of day its all about HONESTY.
If someone cheats on u behind ur back. One has the right to dump them for not having the type of character & stability one is seeking in a relationship.
Honesty & consent.
Cheating doesn't need to be tolerated.
Interesting insights. Thank you for the video.
Our pleasure! Thank you for your comment ❤️
This problem seems made up I am not convinced there is any serious animosity against monogamy in the gay community. Moreover monogamy is completely normalized while alternatives are not.