I am an aviation writer and I have had the good fortune to experience this in several tactical jet types, including the F-104 mentioned at the beginning, as well as the F-15 and F/A-18. I gotta say, it's pretty close to the most fun you can have with or without your pants on.
Im rife with envy at the fact youve bden in an F-104 at full tilt, not to mention an F-15! Those planes are in my top 5, along with the criminally underrated B-58 Hustler in terms of raw performance.
@RidinDirtyRollinBurnouts I'm giving away my age, but the B-58 has been my favorite airplane since childhood, when I saw one fly over at low level. I like all the Convair Deltas from that era.The civilian CF-104D I got a few hops in belonged to a museum collection I worked for years ago..
The F104 incident with Chuck Yeager reminded me that the guy truly had a _guardian angel_ in his life. Reading his autobiography, it was a miracle he lived into old age. He survived being shot down in an aerial dogfight in WW II Europe, eluded capture, and flew again in combat missions. Prior to that in stateside, while in combat aircraft training in the East, on weekends he'd fly West to visit his wife, where he admitted that due to exhaustion, he dozed-off at the controls, with the aircraft maintaining a circular flight path while asleep. Another time with sharing the flying duties with a fellow pilot in a transport plane, again to fly from East to West to visit his wife, they set the plane's controls to autopilot to get some shuteye, only to be fortunate enough to awaken in time to realize the plane was flying into a mountainside box canyon, whereupon they took control of the plane to advert a crash.
You seem familiar with Yeagers life. When he ejected from the zoom climb, is it true that the ejection seat hit him and shattered his faceplate, and the spent rocket motor ignited the rubber gasket in the oxygen rich environment of his suit? The movie showed his burned face, but never explained it.
@@MW-bi1pi Got my hair cut as a kid with these dudes. just out side Rockwell Downey, barber was an ass hole racist Vet, Dang he could do a Marine Flat top! that any artist would admire.
@rpbajb Yep. That's the story. What doesn't get told is that some of Yeager's peers at the USAF Test Pilots School were less than impressed with how he lost the NF-104A. It was a rare and expensive research and training asset of which only three were built. I incountered this while researching a book on the F-104.
F-104 Starfighter, the only airplane to attempt the interception of a Constitution Class Starship. (Albeit a crippled one limping along at a lower than usual altitude. ;) ) Bluejay 4: "Whatever this thing is, it's big!"
@@randalscott7224 The best part is that Spock was actually afraid of the Starfighter, worried it might be carrying a Genie nuclear antiaircraft rocket. With no shields up, Enterprise would've taken a nuke direct in the face.
Ever since I was a little kid I have loved the F-104 Starfighter. Everything about that jet is cool, even the name. Speed, power, futuristic 1950s space age looks. Pure Kelly Johnson badassery, the hell with utility, just make it fast as hell.
I cant help but to think back to the ending scene of "The Right Stuff" where Yeager "goes after that Ol'Russian record" in his F-104! Cheers from Texas!
I remember the scene towards the end of "The Right Stuff" when Chuck Yeager does that altitude record attempt in an F-104. At the time I didn't understand the context nor the purpose of Yearger's flight, and if I recall, the movie plays it as if Yeager has "gone rogue". Anyway, this video fills in some crucial missing context, thank you!
Yeah it make it seem like he stole the plane and is going on an unauthorized flight. In reality it was all sanctioned.. but Yeager was the worst pilot on base because he refused to fly the profile and his ego was way too big for anyone to get through to him. He was still old school flying by the seat of his pants thinking that he could do better than engineers who made the calculations for the flight.
He did go rogue. He knowingly exceeded both his approved flight profile and the known limits of the aircraft in order to try and achieve (additional) personal fame. In so doing he destroyed a multi-million dollar experimental aircraft and nearly killed himself. Yeager's concept of "the right stuff" could not exist in the age of space flight. He was a dinosaur and he knew it and it made him very bitter.
It was the pre-compressor cooling via water/methanol injection that enabled the Foxbat to get to 123k ft. The F-4H Phantom II "Skyburner" had that as well. There have been many projects over the years that have looked into using that for enabling turbine engines to operate at high altitudes and speeds (Hermeus is the latest).
@@zeitgeistx5239 Probably still stands, there is no point in today's day and age to attempt beating it when we have rockets that go from sea level to orbit in a matter of minutes!
@zeitgeistx5239 A record literally means you have to know about it. It has to be sanctioned and independently verified… otherwise it doesn’t count, period.
@@zeitgeistx5239 As you see it is very dangerous to try and has a high probability of losing the very expensive aircraft. Governments today don't throw any blank checks any more and investors don't like losing money.
It was absolutely designed to be an air superiority fighter. 1) It was designed by talking to Korean War fighter pilots for what they wanted in a new fighter. 2) It was simple, lightweight, and included a gun. 3) It had little to no night or all-weather capabilities in the beginning which was required of interceptors. What the issue was is that in the 1950s.. fighters were about _speed_ more than maneuverability. This is what the F-86s pilots wanted as they got left behind by faster and higher flying Mig-15s.
So was the Spitfire. You can see it in the design, large wing designed for getting to high altitude fast at the expense of agility and not enough fuel tanks for prolonged endurance. Everything with fighter design is a compromise, what makes it good in one role has drawbacks in others.
Astronaut Frank Borman was at ARPS at the time as an instructor, and in his book he excoriated Yeager for that flight. The NF-104 was not designed for high altitude flights like that, and Yeager's accident helped lead to the aircraft being phased out of ARPS. Borman was angered that a perfectly good teaching tool was sullied by Yeager's attempt to showboat.
Good for Borman, he was right on. I met him too, and I got the feeling he was a true test pilot. It was like he thought in aerospace engineering 100% of the time, calculations and graphs floating around his head like cartoon thought bubbles.
The English Electric Lightning was an amazing example of climb to height records. Still one of my favourite aircraft. The F-106 went so far, as to carry nuclear air-to-air missiles, with the hope of a single missile destroying multiple enemy craft in the blast.
Hold my beer; In 1984, during a NATO exercise, Flight lieutenant Mike Hale intercepted a U-2 at a height which they had previously considered safe (thought to be 66,000 feet (20,000 m)). Records show that Hale also climbed to 88,000 ft (27,000 m) in his Lightning F.3 XR749. This was not sustained level flight but a ballistic climb, in which the pilot takes the aircraft to top speed and then puts the aircraft into a climb, exchanging speed for altitude. Hale also participated in time-to-height and acceleration trials against Lockheed F-104 Starfighters from Aalborg. He reports that the Lightnings won all races easily with the exception of the low-level supersonic acceleration, which was a "dead heat" [Wiki]
@@WOFFY-qc9te 1. The U2 was considered "safe" at 66,000 feet right up until Gary Powers was shot down in 1960. 2. The Lightning wasn't the first airplane to intercept a U2 at altitude; the F-104 did it 20 years previously. 3. The Lightning that Hale flew was hand-picked and extensively prepped. I doubt that the Danes from Aalborg with their second-hand, worn-out and overweight ex-Canadian CF-104's were given the same consideration.
My Grandfather's favorite airplane he flew was the F-104 (he said it was like riding a bike on ice though). He also flew F-15's and was one of the Streak Eagle pilots that set the time to climb records. I forget the exact numbers (the videos are here on youtube), but the Eagle beat the Mig25 to 30,000 meters by over a minute. They used one of the first F-15's off the production line and tuned the motors a bit - it wasn't that highly modified (if you dont count all the extra scientific equipment they put on board). My father was also an Eagle driver, and he said the F-15C could have been faster, and that the F-22 would have been in a different league altogether!
The Streak Eagle was insane, stripped down including the paint to save weight and little more power out the engines. All that gave the Streak Eagle a thrust to weight ratio of around 2:1. Cold North Dakota air and some pilots with big balls and the records fell.
@@spinningsquare1325 But only up to 15000 meter record because it was optimized to climb only that al without any high alt high speed acceleration. Even the intake was altered to loose weight for the climb record.
I recently read that an old German saying went as "if you want your own F-104, just buy a small stretch of land, and will fall on it eventually". Given the Germans' history with it, I wouldn't be surprised if it's true. 😂😂😂
Yepp, it's a sarcastic notion for the "Widowmaker". Because the German Luftwaffe wanted to make a multi-role bomber out of a sleek fighter jet that was never designed to be a bomber. Combined with a lack of appropriate pilot training it's the reason why they fell out of the sky in great numbers... 😐😐
@UncleManuel Exactly, the Air Force asked for a high-performance interceptor, and that's what Kelly Johnson gave them. This would be like taking a Ferrari and using it like a truck.
@@UncleManuel I dont think the Luftwaffe wanted the F-104 at all, but the $10M that Lockheed paid to bribe the then German govt into buying it made sure thats what they got.
Actually that's a british story... about the Gloster Meatbox, 890 in RAF service crashed killing 450 british pilots... it is the worst jet aircraft to ever operate in military service.
Thank you for reporting Yeager's accident correctly. The link you provided has the correct information. He did not pay attention to learning the reaction control system and entered the atmosphere in the wrong orientation. Excuses about air temperature are bogus because the air temperature at that altitude is less than -42 Deg C. A variation of air temperature at the dry lake does not create a change at those altitudes. The link you provided has the complete story, he screwed the pooch on this flight.
In the late 1960s I had a friend who was a USAF F-4 pilot. He told me that unofficially he'd done the maneuver, going so high that he could see stars in the daytime.
Thank you for linking to the page that nails Yeager as being an incompetant pilot that was unable to take orders. I wish I could find the one where Major Smith describes breaking the sound barrier - with witnesses including Yeager himself! - the night before Yeager 'officially' did it. Major Smith was flying an air-breathing F-100 or F-101, IIRC, in a long shallow dive that broke the sound barrier right over the bar where Yeager and the air force brass were staying. Threats of job losses were flung around furiously to cover it up ("can't let this get out - Bell spent millions of air force dollars on a rocket-powered aircraft and all it needed was an aircraft that was already in service???!"), but it didn't stay buried, just mostly forgotten. For that reason most reputable publications now state that Yeager was the first person to break the sound barrier "in level flight". Lastly, before /rant off/ 😆Yeager should have been dismissed the service the moment the stunt with the broken rib was discovered. He was not fit to fly and he let his ego get the better of him. The Bell X-1 saved his career and the broken rib got blown up into "how big and brave he was". Bllx. Ex-pilot here: ex- because I had a highspeed encounter with asphalt. Motorcycle crashes and CAA medicals don't mix.
You must have hit your head when you had your accident or is it enough to be Welsh to write utter boIIocks? The F-100 prototype didn't exist in 1947 & it wasn't a "Major Smith" either. How come you can't recall it was George S. Welch [sound like Welsh]? He was flying the North American Aviation XP-86 a week before Yeager's flight & he repeated it [it is said] 30 mins before the X1 flight. This is not a secret & it never has been a secret - the point of the Bell was to record data & film the transition using chase aircraft. As to the rest of your post - let's forget about it as it's all internet twaddle. Incidentally... George F Smith [not a Major AFAIK], a North American Aviation F-100 test pilot became the first person known to accomplish supersonic ejection, but that was in 1955.
@@nightjarflying I did say I was relying on memory because I couldn't find the page in Major Smith's memoirs. Thank you for clearing it up. However, we still have to contend with the myth that Yeager was the first man to break the sound barrier and that one is not going to go away soon. Also, I stand by my statement that in my opinion (*my* *opinion*) Yeager should have been dismissed the service for that utterly stupid egotistical stunt with the broomstick. I assume you fly/flew too? Would you get in the cockpit of a high-powered aircraft with a damaged rib? I would not, unless, of course, it was an absolute necessity because of some other external problem.
The zoom scene of the F-104 at time 4:13 was used in the the beginning of the first season of Star Trek TOS in the episode "Tomorrow is Yesterday" where Captain Christopher was beamed on board when the Enterprise was accidentally whiplashed back into the 1960s. One of my favorite episodes.
A zoom climb can be done in any aircraft. It's the opening maneuver to many vertical aerobatic maneuvers, such as the hammerhead and the tail slide. I've done many in a Super Decathlon. They're much slower, and much lower, and much shorter than an F-104, but you can certainly do about a 4G pullup to vertical and turn all of your kinetic energy into altitude.
Couple different maneuvers being conflated here. 1. "Zoom climb" starts at max cruise altitude to gain max speed and zoom. 2. "Unrestricted climb" starts soon after takeoff and ends near max cruise altitude. 1. Goes higher than 2.
I think you’re confused. A zoom climb typically starts at the tropopause of around 36,000 feet. The reason is that higher than the tropopause.. temperature remains the same while pressure continues to drop so greatly reduced aircraft and engine performance. Most planes will have their max speed at around 36,000 feet for this reason. An unrestricted climb is just one without an ATC altitude restriction or assignment. That’s it. Those of us in less high performance aircraft also get unrestricted descents and unrestricted visual approaches (heading and altitude our discretion).
Fabulous channel. Really enjoy the educational and enjoying commentary. On a personal note, even as a youth I felt a mysterious wonder about the f -104. Thank you for the "ah, yes" info on why..
I am also lucky to have witnessed this. In 1974/75 (?) out over Tenstmuir sands into the North sea from RAF Leuchars. Two of them, one after the other, possibly a mile or two out to sea before both tailstanding in full reheat. What a sight what a noise. Might have been a proper QRA (quick reaction alert).
I have a model of the X-15 that was given to my grandfather when he worked on that project. It's a pretty insane aircraft, rocket, or whatever you wanna call it.
i know its been covered in many forums and comments before. but the f-22 and the f-15ex could definitely blow the doors off that record. the sound of silence makes the mind wonder what they are really capable of.
Just not so. Top speed of modern fighters (and therefore the energy available at the start of the zoom, and therefore how far they can climb) is way less than the top speed of the F104s and Mig25s or even F4 Phantoms. That's because to build a plane over Mach 2 you have to build it from heavy heat-resistant materials and you have to use inefficient turbojets rather than low-bypass turbofans. The first wrecks maneuverability and the second wrecks the range - both of those do not matter much for a pure interceptor but are more important than absolute top speed for an air superiority fighter (eg F15, F22, Eurofighter Typhoon) or an MRCA (eg F35, Panavia Tornado).
9:51 Also Chuck Yeager recommended Neil Armstrong to be grounded, (which was pretty lame from Chuck's), after Neil's issue with one of the X-15 test flight. It was something related with loss of controls and the airplane ballooning in an high altitude test flight. He managed to fix the issue, using the reaction jets, which was brilliant! (This event was perpetuated in the movie First Man). My point is: Just imagine Neil Armstrong grounded! "Chuck, you may be the first to reach and go beyond Mach 1, but I walked on the moon and reached orbital speeds! Deal with it!" 😅 May booth Rest In Peace.
Armstrong was a great test pilot and engineer., however he was human and made mistakes. The X-15 overshoot being one of them. Yeager's weakness was his over inflated ego and everyone knew it.
Got to love the EE Lightning's climb ability, and of course, now, we've got the Eurofighter that can accelerate in its climb virtually right from rotate. Far out performs the likes of the F15 and F35.
Guessing you must've had a hand in designing both, huh? Otherwise, you're just standing on someone else's shoulders, pretending you're something that you're not... People like you are a scourge...filling up these comments with glorious achievements...none of which, you had any hand in... Try harder...
@@DoktorBayerischeMotorenWerke yup super handy fuselage to put on the Spanish and Italian wings, then throw in the Brit's engines and everything else ;) The joys of a consortium. Same with Panavia Tornado
@@DoktorBayerischeMotorenWerke you don't get it do you.... it's a partnership between these countries, no one person owns Eurofighter. Same with Tornado, with which Germany are still struggling to replace. Bit like 6th Gen Tempest is UK, Italy, with a bit from Sweden and Japan.
This video is incredible! Those NF-104A's were basically experimental rockets strapped to airplanes! It's nerve-wracking to think about the pilots climbing that high in an aircraft pushing its limits.
My father was a test pilot for McDonnell and flew in the Top Flight" program flying the first F4H1. He reached 96,500 ft for an unofficial record as he was no longer a military pilot. Lost his life in October 1959 further developing the flight procedure for the military to set the official record mentioned in the video.
Standard F-104 A with the first production version of the J-79-2 engine had over 16,900 pounds of thrust and eventually, it had 18,750 pounds of thrust!
The reason for Yeager's loss of control was not pilot error. The test had him following a flight pattern designed for cooler atmospheric conditions. Chuck had zoom - climbed the F104 once before that same morning following the exact same flight profile. It had reached 108,000 feet and the peroxide thrusters worked up there efficiently enough to reorient the plane. The atmospheric pressure up there was lower, since the air was cooler at that early hour. The second flight took place in the early afternoon, when the air was hotter and therefore the atmosphere had expanded and was reaching significantly higher. A 104,000 feet, the limit of the second flight's climb, there was still enough air density to act on the fuselage and wings and that counteracted the effects of the peroxide thrusters. Chuck spent all his peroxide trying to reorient the airplane and windmill the engine back on, but could not. Also, he had no hydraulic power to control the flight surfaces, since the engine was off. He fought to save the plane all the way down, even deploying his drag chute, until he ejected at the very last moment before the crash. He then suffered very serious burns when the ejection seat hit his helmet and set the inside of his helmet aflame (the emergency oxygen supply was feeding into his helmet, which made everything inside, including his head, highly combustible). A doctor later saved him from permanent disfiguration by an extremely painful procedure.
The error was the climb angle that left him stuck in that coffin corner. If he'd hit it correctly he would have gone a lot higher and the air pressure would have been thin enough for the nose thruster to do the job.
@JFFF428 State the arguments for your claim. Just yapping that someone is wrong and blatantly blaming someone makes you look like a damn fool, especially when it does not fit with what is considered factual information.
Around 1960 I took a class in Stochastic Processes, a new way to attack complicated problems. They had used this technique to design the flight pattern used for the F104. It was counter and intuitive but succeeded.
Even now, the engineering of the F 104 still amazes me jow Kelly Johnson designed a plane with short thing wings. A manned missile practically speaking
Nothing officially. They set that basically as a way to show getting to an SR-71 was possible. Considering the SR could cruise at such a high altitude and high speed doing a zoom climb in one of those would easily beat the record. But, nobody wanted to go on record with the actual limits.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the Streak Eagle program. Although other aircraft have flown higher, the Streak Eagle gained the time-to-climb record. I don't know if it still holds that record, but it was amazing back in the day! And it's still got the best kill-to-loss ratio ever!
It was indeed an impressive aircraft but from what I once heard, it's worth noting that that particular one was totally stripped of EVERYTHING except for essential kit to allow it to fly, and was also in effect, a 'flying gas tank'. Also, the (expensive) engines were completely and totally wrecked! My guess is that those engines were probably only ever intended for one-time use.
This is also why i liked the Komet, but yeah, that was rocket powered. But i do think that it was a major influence on later zoom flights. Maybe the design will become popular again when electric motors become smaller and more efficient.
I enjoyed this video. One of my flight instructors (we're talking early 90s) was Canadian test pilot for the Starfighter. I recall him telling me stories about it on a training flight in a Cessna we did once. He said the 104 was scary as hell if you aileron rolled it more 720 - would go into a flat spin
The ex-RCAF pilot Jack Woodman was one of the first to fly the NF104. Also I think the only then active RCAF pilot to fly the Avro Arrow. Great career to say the least. Edit: Woodman was the first to fly the NF104.
One of the codevelopers of the NF-104 was Frank Borman. His autobiography "Countdown" described the events that led to the development of the NF-104. Coincidentally, one of the Lockheed engineers who worked on the project was a fellow named Russell Ray, who would become one of Borman's top lieutenants at Eastern Airlines, as well as an airline presidentin his own right (I forgot which airline he led).
MiG-25 was interceptor, build chiefly against potentil Mach 3 bombers like Valkyre. Since that did not materialize, it was slowly replaced by slightly slower but more economical Mig-31.
This is a good , informative, series , well done for your time and dedication, appreciated, and smiles here as well 😊. Ha ha maybe 'those were the days ' sung by Mary hopkin , well maybe not 😅😊...ha ha great video thanks
The zoom climb is the method used when launching a satellite killer. A modified version was the technique used in 'toss bombing ' of nuclear bombs by, believe it or not, the A1 Skyraider, a prop plane. Any pilots using this technique in combat would have been hoist on their own petard
Actually it should do pretty good. It’s got the speed, power, and ability to cruise at very high altitude already. Especially having engines designed to operate in the thin air. Running at Mach 3 gives you a lot of energy to convert into altitude.
I am an aviation writer and I have had the good fortune to experience this in several tactical jet types, including the F-104 mentioned at the beginning, as well as the F-15 and F/A-18. I gotta say, it's pretty close to the most fun you can have with or without your pants on.
Cool.
Im rife with envy at the fact youve bden in an F-104 at full tilt, not to mention an F-15! Those planes are in my top 5, along with the criminally underrated B-58 Hustler in terms of raw performance.
@RidinDirtyRollinBurnouts I'm giving away my age, but the B-58 has been my favorite airplane since childhood, when I saw one fly over at low level. I like all the Convair Deltas from that era.The civilian CF-104D I got a few hops in belonged to a museum collection I worked for years ago..
But did you wear pants?
So gonna go with the most fun, period! 😂
The F104 incident with Chuck Yeager reminded me that the guy truly had a _guardian angel_ in his life.
Reading his autobiography, it was a miracle he lived into old age.
He survived being shot down in an aerial dogfight in WW II Europe, eluded capture, and flew again in combat missions.
Prior to that in stateside, while in combat aircraft training in the East, on weekends he'd fly West to visit his wife, where he admitted that due to exhaustion, he dozed-off at the controls, with the aircraft maintaining a circular flight path while asleep.
Another time with sharing the flying duties with a fellow pilot in a transport plane, again to fly from East to West to visit his wife, they set the plane's controls to autopilot to get some shuteye, only to be fortunate enough to awaken in time to realize the plane was flying into a mountainside box canyon, whereupon they took control of the plane to advert a crash.
Interesting fact; EVERY time Chuck Yeager crashed an airplane or was shot down, Bud Anderson was flying with him.
You seem familiar with Yeagers life. When he ejected from the zoom climb, is it true that the ejection seat hit him and shattered his faceplate, and the spent rocket motor ignited the rubber gasket in the oxygen rich environment of his suit? The movie showed his burned face, but never explained it.
@@MW-bi1pi Got my hair cut as a kid with these dudes. just out side Rockwell Downey, barber was an ass hole racist Vet, Dang he could do a Marine Flat top! that any artist would admire.
@rpbajb Yep. That's the story. What doesn't get told is that some of Yeager's peers at the USAF Test Pilots School were less than impressed with how he lost the NF-104A. It was a rare and expensive research and training asset of which only three were built. I incountered this while researching a book on the F-104.
Remember that the first X-15 pilot Scott Crossfield died when flying his Cessna 210 into weather. Nobody is immune to pilot mistakes.
F-104 Starfighter, the only airplane to attempt the interception of a Constitution Class Starship. (Albeit a crippled one limping along at a lower than usual altitude. ;) )
Bluejay 4: "Whatever this thing is, it's big!"
Star Trek ??
@paulchandler427 yes, "Tomorrow is Yesterday." It "guest starred" some real F-104s in the opening scenes.
@@randalscott7224 T Y >> u left just enough clues. I thought Id take a stab at it. Old guy here, familiar w/ TOS Star Trek >> "damn it, Jim"
Always liked the Starfighter vs Starship :P
@@randalscott7224 The best part is that Spock was actually afraid of the Starfighter, worried it might be carrying a Genie nuclear antiaircraft rocket. With no shields up, Enterprise would've taken a nuke direct in the face.
Ever since I was a little kid I have loved the F-104 Starfighter. Everything about that jet is cool, even the name. Speed, power, futuristic 1950s space age looks. Pure Kelly Johnson badassery, the hell with utility, just make it fast as hell.
I remember having a toy version of those!
Me too! The fabled Widow Maker, with the fight suit boots having "spurs" to lock your heels to the seat when you ejected
Definitely cool looking! Agree with all your statements 😂
I had a Starfighter GPU back in the day.
Same here! Loved the look of the anti dihedral (?) of the stubby wings.
I cant help but to think back to the ending scene of "The Right Stuff" where Yeager "goes after that Ol'Russian record" in his F-104! Cheers from Texas!
I remember the scene towards the end of "The Right Stuff" when Chuck Yeager does that altitude record attempt in an F-104. At the time I didn't understand the context nor the purpose of Yearger's flight, and if I recall, the movie plays it as if Yeager has "gone rogue". Anyway, this video fills in some crucial missing context, thank you!
Great movie!
Yeah it make it seem like he stole the plane and is going on an unauthorized flight.
In reality it was all sanctioned.. but Yeager was the worst pilot on base because he refused to fly the profile and his ego was way too big for anyone to get through to him.
He was still old school flying by the seat of his pants thinking that he could do better than engineers who made the calculations for the flight.
So in real life he did actually have a flight plan?
"It must be somewhere"
He did go rogue. He knowingly exceeded both his approved flight profile and the known limits of the aircraft in order to try and achieve (additional) personal fame. In so doing he destroyed a multi-million dollar experimental aircraft and nearly killed himself.
Yeager's concept of "the right stuff" could not exist in the age of space flight. He was a dinosaur and he knew it and it made him very bitter.
It was the pre-compressor cooling via water/methanol injection that enabled the Foxbat to get to 123k ft. The F-4H Phantom II "Skyburner" had that as well. There have been many projects over the years that have looked into using that for enabling turbine engines to operate at high altitudes and speeds (Hermeus is the latest).
Lots of planes have it. The old Hawker 748s and Convair 580s had it.
123,000 ft from a MiG25 in 1977, a record that still stands is impressive.
A record that stands in so far as we know.
123,000ft is about 37.5km
@@zeitgeistx5239 Probably still stands, there is no point in today's day and age to attempt beating it when we have rockets that go from sea level to orbit in a matter of minutes!
@zeitgeistx5239
A record literally means you have to know about it. It has to be sanctioned and independently verified… otherwise it doesn’t count, period.
@@zeitgeistx5239 As you see it is very dangerous to try and has a high probability of losing the very expensive aircraft. Governments today don't throw any blank checks any more and investors don't like losing money.
The f-104 was never designed to be an air superiority fighter, it was purely designed as an interceptor
Hush now! It's an all weather fighter-bomber! Oder Nein?!?
It was absolutely designed to be an air superiority fighter.
1) It was designed by talking to Korean War fighter pilots for what they wanted in a new fighter.
2) It was simple, lightweight, and included a gun.
3) It had little to no night or all-weather capabilities in the beginning which was required of interceptors.
What the issue was is that in the 1950s.. fighters were about _speed_ more than maneuverability. This is what the F-86s pilots wanted as they got left behind by faster and higher flying Mig-15s.
@@calvinnickel9995 Ok'murica
ua-cam.com/video/QNzaNIXHHU0/v-deo.html
So was the Spitfire. You can see it in the design, large wing designed for getting to high altitude fast at the expense of agility and not enough fuel tanks for prolonged endurance. Everything with fighter design is a compromise, what makes it good in one role has drawbacks in others.
High Altitude Zoom Climbs are so much more dangerous than most people realize!
motors shut off, and "hopefully" restart
And Chuck, unlike the other pilots actually working the program, couldn’t get it right.
One of my favorite aerospace subjects! Steely eyed missle men.
Thanks for your hard work and Best Regards!
You got any Beemans? Yeah I might have a stick or 2…
But do you have The Right Stuff?
Great drop😂
"Put the spurs to her, Chuck!"
"Stretch it, Stretch it!.........Christ Almighty!"
What is a Beemans?
Astronaut Frank Borman was at ARPS at the time as an instructor, and in his book he excoriated Yeager for that flight. The NF-104 was not designed for high altitude flights like that, and Yeager's accident helped lead to the aircraft being phased out of ARPS. Borman was angered that a perfectly good teaching tool was sullied by Yeager's attempt to showboat.
yeager a man, who didnt want to be in the FAKE MOON MISSION, borman said FAKE MOON TRIP, SIGN ME UP!❤
@@androtekman6131yeager just didn’t fly the plan.
Good for Borman, he was right on. I met him too, and I got the feeling he was a true test pilot. It was like he thought in aerospace engineering 100% of the time, calculations and graphs floating around his head like cartoon thought bubbles.
Say, Ridley... Ya got a stick o' Beemans?
…I might have me a stick.”
The English Electric Lightning was an amazing example of climb to height records. Still one of my favourite aircraft. The F-106 went so far, as to carry nuclear air-to-air missiles, with the hope of a single missile destroying multiple enemy craft in the blast.
The Frightening was a beast. One of the few aircraft that could successfully intercept the U2.
@@Electricfox
Or overtake a Concorde!
I think it went to 80,000 feet in Singapore in 1993.
Hold my beer; In 1984, during a NATO exercise, Flight lieutenant Mike Hale intercepted a U-2 at a height which they had previously considered safe (thought to be 66,000 feet (20,000 m)). Records show that Hale also climbed to 88,000 ft (27,000 m) in his Lightning F.3 XR749. This was not sustained level flight but a ballistic climb, in which the pilot takes the aircraft to top speed and then puts the aircraft into a climb, exchanging speed for altitude. Hale also participated in time-to-height and acceleration trials against Lockheed F-104 Starfighters from Aalborg. He reports that the Lightnings won all races easily with the exception of the low-level supersonic acceleration, which was a "dead heat" [Wiki]
@@WOFFY-qc9te 1. The U2 was considered "safe" at 66,000 feet right up until Gary Powers was shot down in 1960. 2. The Lightning wasn't the first airplane to intercept a U2 at altitude; the F-104 did it 20 years previously. 3. The Lightning that Hale flew was hand-picked and extensively prepped. I doubt that the Danes from Aalborg with their second-hand, worn-out and overweight ex-Canadian CF-104's were given the same consideration.
My Grandfather's favorite airplane he flew was the F-104 (he said it was like riding a bike on ice though). He also flew F-15's and was one of the Streak Eagle pilots that set the time to climb records. I forget the exact numbers (the videos are here on youtube), but the Eagle beat the Mig25 to 30,000 meters by over a minute.
They used one of the first F-15's off the production line and tuned the motors a bit - it wasn't that highly modified (if you dont count all the extra scientific equipment they put on board).
My father was also an Eagle driver, and he said the F-15C could have been faster, and that the F-22 would have been in a different league altogether!
And the streak eagle was beaten by streak flanker
The infamous streaking banana?
The Streak Eagle was insane, stripped down including the paint to save weight and little more power out the engines. All that gave the Streak Eagle a thrust to weight ratio of around 2:1. Cold North Dakota air and some pilots with big balls and the records fell.
@@spinningsquare1325 But only up to 15000 meter record because it was optimized to climb only that al without any high alt high speed acceleration. Even the intake was altered to loose weight for the climb record.
I never believed the Soviets claims after the Streak Eagle records. Proof you silly ruskies, proof!
I recently read that an old German saying went as "if you want your own F-104, just buy a small stretch of land, and will fall on it eventually". Given the Germans' history with it, I wouldn't be surprised if it's true. 😂😂😂
Yepp, it's a sarcastic notion for the "Widowmaker". Because the German Luftwaffe wanted to make a multi-role bomber out of a sleek fighter jet that was never designed to be a bomber. Combined with a lack of appropriate pilot training it's the reason why they fell out of the sky in great numbers... 😐😐
@UncleManuel Exactly, the Air Force asked for a high-performance interceptor, and that's what Kelly Johnson gave them. This would be like taking a Ferrari and using it like a truck.
@@UncleManuel I dont think the Luftwaffe wanted the F-104 at all, but the $10M that Lockheed paid to bribe the then German govt into buying it made sure thats what they got.
Actually that's a british story... about the Gloster Meatbox, 890 in RAF service crashed killing 450 british pilots... it is the worst jet aircraft to ever operate in military service.
@@UncleManuelWest-germany?
Thank you for reporting Yeager's accident correctly. The link you provided has the correct information. He did not pay attention to learning the reaction control system and entered the atmosphere in the wrong orientation. Excuses about air temperature are bogus because the air temperature at that altitude is less than -42 Deg C. A variation of air temperature at the dry lake does not create a change at those altitudes. The link you provided has the complete story, he screwed the pooch on this flight.
That was a brilliant video! I enjoy watching technology during the cold war epoch. Keep them coming, and many thanks.
Yes. Cold War test pilots are my heroes.
It came down to loosing a glove.. that’s incredible. Thanks for another great video
In the late 1960s I had a friend who was a USAF F-4 pilot. He told me that unofficially he'd done the maneuver, going so high that he could see stars in the daytime.
I think the crash.of Chuck Yeager's plane was featured in the movie, the right stuff.
Correct!
Yep that’s afirm
Thank you, Paul, for a great video about the challenges of high-altitude flight and the dangers.
Thanks for this awesome mini-doc, Paul. I had never heard of "zoom climbs" until today.
Thank you for linking to the page that nails Yeager as being an incompetant pilot that was unable to take orders. I wish I could find the one where Major Smith describes breaking the sound barrier - with witnesses including Yeager himself! - the night before Yeager 'officially' did it. Major Smith was flying an air-breathing F-100 or F-101, IIRC, in a long shallow dive that broke the sound barrier right over the bar where Yeager and the air force brass were staying. Threats of job losses were flung around furiously to cover it up ("can't let this get out - Bell spent millions of air force dollars on a rocket-powered aircraft and all it needed was an aircraft that was already in service???!"), but it didn't stay buried, just mostly forgotten. For that reason most reputable publications now state that Yeager was the first person to break the sound barrier "in level flight".
Lastly, before /rant off/ 😆Yeager should have been dismissed the service the moment the stunt with the broken rib was discovered. He was not fit to fly and he let his ego get the better of him. The Bell X-1 saved his career and the broken rib got blown up into "how big and brave he was". Bllx. Ex-pilot here: ex- because I had a highspeed encounter with asphalt. Motorcycle crashes and CAA medicals don't mix.
You must have hit your head when you had your accident or is it enough to be Welsh to write utter boIIocks? The F-100 prototype didn't exist in 1947 & it wasn't a "Major Smith" either. How come you can't recall it was George S. Welch [sound like Welsh]? He was flying the North American Aviation XP-86 a week before Yeager's flight & he repeated it [it is said] 30 mins before the X1 flight. This is not a secret & it never has been a secret - the point of the Bell was to record data & film the transition using chase aircraft. As to the rest of your post - let's forget about it as it's all internet twaddle.
Incidentally... George F Smith [not a Major AFAIK], a North American Aviation F-100 test pilot became the first person known to accomplish supersonic ejection, but that was in 1955.
@@nightjarflying I did say I was relying on memory because I couldn't find the page in Major Smith's memoirs. Thank you for clearing it up. However, we still have to contend with the myth that Yeager was the first man to break the sound barrier and that one is not going to go away soon. Also, I stand by my statement that in my opinion (*my* *opinion*) Yeager should have been dismissed the service for that utterly stupid egotistical stunt with the broomstick. I assume you fly/flew too? Would you get in the cockpit of a high-powered aircraft with a damaged rib? I would not, unless, of course, it was an absolute necessity because of some other external problem.
Fascinating as always Paul!
I zoom climbed my F4E to 82,000. A hell of a ride and view.
Watching this video again. It’s a great one.
Reminds me of that scene from “The Right Stuff” the movie.
The zoom scene of the F-104 at time 4:13 was used in the the beginning of the first season of Star Trek TOS in the episode "Tomorrow is Yesterday" where Captain Christopher was beamed on board when the Enterprise was accidentally whiplashed back into the 1960s. One of my favorite episodes.
A zoom climb can be done in any aircraft. It's the opening maneuver to many vertical aerobatic maneuvers, such as the hammerhead and the tail slide. I've done many in a Super Decathlon. They're much slower, and much lower, and much shorter than an F-104, but you can certainly do about a 4G pullup to vertical and turn all of your kinetic energy into altitude.
Couple different maneuvers being conflated here.
1. "Zoom climb" starts at max cruise altitude to gain max speed and zoom.
2. "Unrestricted climb" starts soon after takeoff and ends near max cruise altitude.
1. Goes higher than 2.
I think you’re confused.
A zoom climb typically starts at the tropopause of around 36,000 feet. The reason is that higher than the tropopause.. temperature remains the same while pressure continues to drop so greatly reduced aircraft and engine performance. Most planes will have their max speed at around 36,000 feet for this reason.
An unrestricted climb is just one without an ATC altitude restriction or assignment. That’s it.
Those of us in less high performance aircraft also get unrestricted descents and unrestricted visual approaches (heading and altitude our discretion).
Probably the most fascinating time in the history of flight.
Wish I could have been a part of it.
Same. Lots of change happened.
Fabulous channel. Really enjoy the educational and enjoying commentary. On a personal note, even as a youth I felt a mysterious wonder about the f -104. Thank you for the "ah, yes" info on why..
i am lucky enough to have watched a lightning take off, no 70 degrees in that,straight up and broke sound barrier doing it ,shit noisy doing it too
Where and When???
@@richardvernon317 air show at raf lossiemouth in 84
@@richardvernon317 airshow at raf lossie in 84
hawaii air force base
I am also lucky to have witnessed this. In 1974/75 (?) out over Tenstmuir sands into the North sea from RAF Leuchars. Two of them, one after the other, possibly a mile or two out to sea before both tailstanding in full reheat. What a sight what a noise. Might have been a proper QRA (quick reaction alert).
I had forgotten they were called hyperlinks. Thanks for reminding me, I love that term. Excellent video as always, appreciate the effort greatly.
I have a model of the X-15 that was given to my grandfather when he worked on that project. It's a pretty insane aircraft, rocket, or whatever you wanna call it.
8:30 Every paper airplane I throw does this.
i know its been covered in many forums and comments before. but the f-22 and the f-15ex could definitely blow the doors off that record. the sound of silence makes the mind wonder what they are really capable of.
lots of magic secrets
Just not so. Top speed of modern fighters (and therefore the energy available at the start of the zoom, and therefore how far they can climb) is way less than the top speed of the F104s and Mig25s or even F4 Phantoms. That's because to build a plane over Mach 2 you have to build it from heavy heat-resistant materials and you have to use inefficient turbojets rather than low-bypass turbofans. The first wrecks maneuverability and the second wrecks the range - both of those do not matter much for a pure interceptor but are more important than absolute top speed for an air superiority fighter (eg F15, F22, Eurofighter Typhoon) or an MRCA (eg F35, Panavia Tornado).
For an aeroplane nerd like me, this was unknown and very informative. Thank you.
9:51 Also Chuck Yeager recommended Neil Armstrong to be grounded, (which was pretty lame from Chuck's), after Neil's issue with one of the X-15 test flight. It was something related with loss of controls and the airplane ballooning in an high altitude test flight. He managed to fix the issue, using the reaction jets, which was brilliant! (This event was perpetuated in the movie First Man).
My point is: Just imagine Neil Armstrong grounded!
"Chuck, you may be the first to reach and go beyond Mach 1, but I walked on the moon and reached orbital speeds! Deal with it!" 😅
May booth Rest In Peace.
🥱
Armstrong was a great test pilot and engineer., however he was human and made mistakes. The X-15 overshoot being one of them.
Yeager's weakness was his over inflated ego and everyone knew it.
@@gregorythompson5826 exactly
Yeah…shame that Yeager was such a dick. Like the Ty Cobb of aerospace
MOON MISSION WAS FAKE!! yeager man enough to not participate
The right stuff. Now where’s Sally Rand?
Got to love the EE Lightning's climb ability, and of course, now, we've got the Eurofighter that can accelerate in its climb virtually right from rotate. Far out performs the likes of the F15 and F35.
Guessing you must've had a hand in designing both, huh? Otherwise, you're just standing on someone else's shoulders, pretending you're something that you're not...
People like you are a scourge...filling up these comments with glorious achievements...none of which, you had any hand in...
Try harder...
Germany makes excellent jet fighters... even the brits bought some!
@@DoktorBayerischeMotorenWerke yup super handy fuselage to put on the Spanish and Italian wings, then throw in the Brit's engines and everything else ;) The joys of a consortium. Same with Panavia Tornado
@@saintuk70 _Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH._ like Panavia Aircraft GmbH and EuroJet Turbo GmbH. are German companies based in Munich Germany.
@@DoktorBayerischeMotorenWerke you don't get it do you.... it's a partnership between these countries, no one person owns Eurofighter. Same with Tornado, with which Germany are still struggling to replace. Bit like 6th Gen Tempest is UK, Italy, with a bit from Sweden and Japan.
This video is incredible! Those NF-104A's were basically experimental rockets strapped to airplanes! It's nerve-wracking to think about the pilots climbing that high in an aircraft pushing its limits.
these men named them "rockets with wings" I grew up next to Rockwell Downey, 60's to 80's. RIP Greatest!
Fun fact - The Lockheed F104 Starfighter was the basis for the Lockheed U2 spy plane - if you squint close enough you can see it .. ;)
Fantastic episode - thank you!
Sling shot?
Shake & bake baby!!
The brilliant ending sequence from 'The Right Stuff' comes immediately to mind!
It's worth mentioning Joe Jordans altitude record from 1959, in a non rocket powered F-104C at 103,395.5 feet
Mirage III also had a rocket under its engine =). And there's this story about French Mirages "intercepting" U-2s above Europe during the Cold War ^^
Operant word there is 'story'.
Love the vintage aerospace stories !
I've seen an English Electric Lightning do a zoom climb at an airshow in Cape Town. A most impressive sight.
My father was a test pilot for McDonnell and flew in the Top Flight" program flying the first F4H1. He reached 96,500 ft for an unofficial record as he was no longer a military pilot. Lost his life in October 1959 further developing the flight procedure for the military to set the official record mentioned in the video.
Love to see those shock diamonds, your body will never let you forget it...
Good old gaffer tape!! Respect from Manchester (UK) :)
Makes me want to watch *The Right Stuff* again =)
Who’s the best pilot you ever saw?
Standard F-104 A with the first production version of the J-79-2 engine had over 16,900 pounds of thrust and eventually, it had 18,750 pounds of thrust!
I enjoy all of Curious Droid videos
Can you imagine if an SR-71 had tried a zoom climb from roughly 80,000’???
It couldn’t. The air is so thin at 80,000 feet it takes 160 miles of airspace just to turn. It would stall almost immediately if it tried to pull up.
03:03 This is where I took a nap
The reason for Yeager's loss of control was not pilot error. The test had him following a flight pattern designed for cooler atmospheric conditions. Chuck had zoom - climbed the F104 once before that same morning following the exact same flight profile. It had reached 108,000 feet and the peroxide thrusters worked up there efficiently enough to reorient the plane. The atmospheric pressure up there was lower, since the air was cooler at that early hour.
The second flight took place in the early afternoon, when the air was hotter and therefore the atmosphere had expanded and was reaching significantly higher. A 104,000 feet, the limit of the second flight's climb, there was still enough air density to act on the fuselage and wings and that counteracted the effects of the peroxide thrusters. Chuck spent all his peroxide trying to reorient the airplane and windmill the engine back on, but could not. Also, he had no hydraulic power to control the flight surfaces, since the engine was off. He fought to save the plane all the way down, even deploying his drag chute, until he ejected at the very last moment before the crash.
He then suffered very serious burns when the ejection seat hit his helmet and set the inside of his helmet aflame (the emergency oxygen supply was feeding into his helmet, which made everything inside, including his head, highly combustible). A doctor later saved him from permanent disfiguration by an extremely painful procedure.
The error was the climb angle that left him stuck in that coffin corner. If he'd hit it correctly he would have gone a lot higher and the air pressure would have been thin enough for the nose thruster to do the job.
@JFFF428 State the arguments for your claim. Just yapping that someone is wrong and blatantly blaming someone makes you look like a damn fool, especially when it does not fit with what is considered factual information.
With all the F-104 ejection content, it might have been interesting to discuss the DOWNWARD ejection seat on the F-104.
What's to discuss? Believe it or not, the thing actually worked, unless you were unfortunate enough to use it at low-level.
Around 1960 I took a class in Stochastic Processes, a new way to attack complicated problems. They had used this technique to design the flight pattern used for the F104. It was counter and intuitive but succeeded.
Even now, the engineering of the F 104 still amazes me jow Kelly Johnson designed a plane with short thing wings. A manned missile practically speaking
The UK’s Electric Lightning still has the most spectacular intercept take off style IMO.
Thanks, Paul!
It;s rare someone mentions the record altitude set by a self powered jet aircraft being a modified Mig-25. Nothing comes close to that record.
Nothing officially. They set that basically as a way to show getting to an SR-71 was possible. Considering the SR could cruise at such a high altitude and high speed doing a zoom climb in one of those would easily beat the record. But, nobody wanted to go on record with the actual limits.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the Streak Eagle program. Although other aircraft have flown higher, the Streak Eagle gained the time-to-climb record. I don't know if it still holds that record, but it was amazing back in the day!
And it's still got the best kill-to-loss ratio ever!
Wow, i didn't know that they shut down the engine climbing to the ceiling. Very interesting
Most jet engines simply won't work above an altitude of about 80,000 feet: the air is simply too thin.
General motors is changing history. Bell built the Bell X15.
Great video, Paul...👍
Fabulous stuff. What a beast the MiG-25 was!🤘🏻😎🤘🏻
It was indeed an impressive aircraft but from what I once heard, it's worth noting that that particular one was totally stripped of EVERYTHING except for essential kit to allow it to fly, and was also in effect, a 'flying gas tank'. Also, the (expensive) engines were completely and totally wrecked! My guess is that those engines were probably only ever intended for one-time use.
This is also why i liked the Komet, but yeah, that was rocket powered.
But i do think that it was a major influence on later zoom flights.
Maybe the design will become popular again when electric motors become smaller and more efficient.
Enjoyable - thanks!
That airplanes got the Zoomies!
I enjoyed this video. One of my flight instructors (we're talking early 90s) was Canadian test pilot for the Starfighter. I recall him telling me stories about it on a training flight in a Cessna we did once. He said the 104 was scary as hell if you aileron rolled it more 720 - would go into a flat spin
The ex-RCAF pilot Jack Woodman was one of the first to fly the NF104. Also I think the only then active RCAF pilot to fly the Avro Arrow. Great career to say the least.
Edit: Woodman was the first to fly the NF104.
98,000ft in an aircraft is awesome
How about the "Streak Eagle", an F-15 stripped for speed to climb?
Never a record holder.
@@calvinnickel9995 The Streak Eagle broke 8 time-to-climb records.
That is an impressive record. It makes you wonder why they had such problems with the U2 if that was the case.
One of the codevelopers of the NF-104 was Frank Borman. His autobiography "Countdown" described the events that led to the development of the NF-104. Coincidentally, one of the Lockheed engineers who worked on the project was a fellow named Russell Ray, who would become one of Borman's top lieutenants at Eastern Airlines, as well as an airline presidentin his own right (I forgot which airline he led).
Good videos! I've subscribed.👍
8:00 as a former test pilot on Groom Lake facility, I once tried landing a set of car keys. Needless to say: It didn't go well.
Awesome video
Amazing story
Best way to unwind with coffee after work!
Brilliant vid xx
Awesome the crazy Foxbat 😮
This was a gem. Hell yeah
MiG-25 was interceptor, build chiefly against potentil Mach 3 bombers like Valkyre. Since that did not materialize, it was slowly replaced by slightly slower but more economical Mig-31.
This is a good , informative, series , well done for your time and dedication, appreciated, and smiles here as well 😊. Ha ha maybe 'those were the days ' sung by Mary hopkin , well maybe not 😅😊...ha ha great video thanks
Lover your stuff....well researched.
Another brilliant work from Mr Shilito
The zoom climb is the method used when launching a satellite killer.
A modified version was the technique used in 'toss bombing ' of nuclear bombs by, believe it or not, the A1 Skyraider, a prop plane. Any pilots using this technique in combat would have been hoist on their own petard
Got a feeling that the new F-15EX could get the all time altitude record if they really wanted to pursue it. Maybe one of these days soon!
A "zoom climb"? Yeah, it's when you are at a boulder hall and stream your climbing via Zoom.
.......
Oh sorry, wrong movie! 😁😁🤘🤘
Hey Paul. Hope you're food. I ready enjoyed this
Good*
He might be if he has a cat!
Weirdest comment I've seen all day.
Cannibal?
@@AtheistOrphan hahahha, I just read. Blooming autocorrect. I should read before sending.
Thanks to MST3K and the movie "The Starfighters," I can't watch this stock footage without hearing elevator music in my head. 🙂
Favorite channel!
This one is going to be good. I remember reading so much about these as a kid.
interesting as usual
I wonder how the SR71 would have performed in these tests?
Bad… like a land speed rail doing a 1/4 mile drag … ie slow burn v an explosion or dif ratio of 2.71 v 4.55
Actually it should do pretty good. It’s got the speed, power, and ability to cruise at very high altitude already. Especially having engines designed to operate in the thin air. Running at Mach 3 gives you a lot of energy to convert into altitude.