Gregory Benford - What is the Far Far Future of Humans in the Universe?
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- Consider humanity’s astounding progress in science during the past three hundred years. Now take a deep breath and project forward three billion years. Assuming humans survive, can we even conceive of what our progeny might be like? Will we colonize the galaxy, the universe?
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Gregory Benford is an American science fiction author and astrophysicist who is on the faculty of the Department of Physics and Astronomy at the University of California, Irvine. He is also a contributing editor of Reason magazine.
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Closer to Truth, hosted by Robert Lawrence Kuhn and directed by Peter Getzels, presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
Incredible interview, hope to see more from Gregory Benford in the future!
There are feats that are thousands of years old that we don’t today understand how they were done.
Now, that's the guy our world needs to hear more from. Just made me feel so good about humanity's future.
That's why this show is called closer to truth, because it's not necessarily truth what they talk about.... just trying to get closer. Like this is pure imagination, he's a fiction author right? Sci fi... fiction...
Fascinating stuff.
I wished they talked about just a thousand years into the future and what humans would be able to do then.
In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war.
Seen this video a loong time ago. Didn't age a day. Benford has written or has collaborated on many sci fi novels that I like. More of him please.
All this to save humanity? It entertaining.
Humans must evolve. Into every niech possible. We cannot remain static and survive a universe that is continuing to evolve.
Really enjoyed this interview.
What is the future of humans in the far future?
The same as that of the ripples of a drop of rain in the ocean.
the real future is only 5-10 years away - where everything will change - at least that is the trend
Us predicting the future like these two guys are attempting to do, is almost on the level of an amoeba trying to consciously apply algebra.
This is not correct. There are just a few variants how the future of our local cosmic neighbourhood can be arranged. These limitations are due to physical constraints. Of course you can say we have not discovered all physics, but we have managed to discover the majority of it, because the reverse implication is obviously absurd (there is a near infinitude of further physics to discover --> there is no fundamental bedrock to nature?)
So the different ways how any intelligent species can act is limited. This is one continuous domain.
By contrast, there is no shared domain for amoeba tasks and whatever you pick as highly intelligent exercise.
More like and ameaba trying to move your body from earth to the moon.
Don't worry. We'll either be extinct, or we'll evolve into another species. Either way, we won't matter any more than a trilobite or jellyfish.
@@ekszentrik I'd like to know what species we would be in billions of yrs cuz we certainly won't be human if we survive.
Lol
Interesting ideas, excellent writer (I loved Deep Time)... but I have to say his casual, cheerful, almost flippant faith in techno-fixes here ("You just nudge the Earth's orbit a bit farther out!" or "You just terraform Mars!" and so forth), with no apparent consideration of degree of difficulty, unintended consequences, Murphy's Law, and especially the inconceivably colossal costs involved, makes me feel I'm listening to a bedtime story.
What species lasts forever? Homo sapiens is earning extinction.
“Humanity, just another failed mutation; another closed-end biological mistake.” ~ George Carlin
can lasers be used to stir material into core of sun?
I'd love to hear his vision of how humanity would deal with global warming.
Dam that guy is super interesting!
You should check out his many decades of books.
very very nice Sir ,
Instead of looking to expand humankind beyond our planet due to “running out of room,” I’d like to see futurists explore how humans can reduce our footprint and our energy needs, so that we can support biodiversity and sustainability for the whole planet. Quality of life, for all species, on the planet that bore us. That would be the optimal future, in my opinion.
Benford may be neglecting the fact that huge engineering projects require a huge amount of available resources (energy, raw materials). He's also assuming humans will continue to prefer biological progeny over synthetic progeny, which could thrive in environments that would terminate biological life.
Pretty sure he did agree on the first point when Kuhn brought it up and they agreed that is true but he was just pointing out there are no fundamental theoretical obstacles. Also, can you point out where he made the second assumption, because IIRC it's nowhere in the interview.
@@simonhibbs887 : Benford's second assumption, that humanity will continue to prefer biological progeny, is implicit where he spoke about the "need" to keep the Earth in a habitable zone as the sun ages and gets hotter. His specs for habitability are what biological organisms require. Nonbiological progeny could presumably endure a much broader range of environmental conditions -- temperatures beyond boiling and no need for biological food or oxygen or sunlight -- which would push back the timeline Benford described.
It might be relatively easy for nonbiologicals to tidally lock Earth to the sun. Then they could "live" on the night side of Earth for an extra billion years or so, compared to biologicals. (I haven't done the math, so don't hold me to that "billion years" estimate.)
We are not humanity. We are Americans, Russians and Chinese with our own narrow minded views
there's a reasonable chance the descendants of humans might still be around in a billion years. There's no chance America, Russia or China as political or cultural entities will be.
The way AGI is developing even the short term looks shaky
With humans involved, what can possibly go wrong?
With humans involved, there is at least hope.
In those kind of timescales, you can move brown dwarfs together to make new stars and just keep doing that since there are so many brown dwarfs around. A red dwarf lasts up to a trillion years since the core is fully convective so you can keep it up until the proton death of the universe.
which red dwarf stars nearby have habitable planets? how can make into habitable planets for people to move to?
Can someone explain why that scientist makes me so scared?? The way he talks makes me think of cold people ready to sacrifice living people for the illusional great future of humanity.
Moving the earth from its orbit is not such a good idea. Historical events in relation to earth and the solar system prove that you never create artificial changes, as the cause and effects are numerous to the surrounding nearby celestial bodies. There is always a cost and time factor. Maybe we should not be insecure and look for a way out but, rather accept the truth that the human race will end. Deep space travel is not an easy endeavor. The amount of brain power needed is beyond belief. To travel at light speed for one year is a mind boggling thought. They do it in the movies all the time however, the hard facts of reality and mathematics give a different conclusion. Possibly, it may be easier for the human race to change and evolve in order to survive the inevitable future. Whatever the case may be, speculation is a good starting point. Marshall Wright
This is an incredibly optimistic and naive view of humanity. One way or another, extinction is unequivocally in our future, and it won't be anything close to a billion years.
Learning to make fire = using intelligence to stay alive.
Good episode
No great tech yet invented to save humanity from itself.
A Dysonsphere would be magnitudes easier and magnitudes more controllable AND it could be used for energy along the way. Move the planet? Seriously?
Can’t predict the weather tomorrow but a billion years from now, no problem
To be fair weather is harder
when earth pulled farther away from sun, the whole asteroid belt can be used to keep the earth (and moon) at the farther out orbit?
You won't getaway with it cause you left for a brief moment. When you complete your cycle of goodness, you will be transfered to a better place like an immortal you are.
Man and his dirty thoughts of limitation have been corrupting the world for a very long time, but great good has taken over. Children will put you in your places.
"What is the Far Far Future of Humans in the Universe?"
Extinction. Death is a Universal rule with no exception.
What you try to proof with that?
@@KA-jm2cz Death does not need proofs. It's an undeniable fact.
Covered with tattoos -- that's our future. 😂😂😂
And be like the movie Idiocracy.
So even the core of stars have global warming due to pollution, lol.
We have to live on a non geo thermal planet,we have to totally control our environment
I want the earth to get hotter. If you walk the sun will support you. If you love to talk alone, the sun will eat you while you are alive. If you want to be a superhero, can't give you an answer you don't believe in but is the only way, true way, and the live way.
Think big
Time is relative.
Everything in existence is required to continuously produce new lnformątion. That's what keeps Existence pushing forward. Whenever something fails to produce new lnformątion or it becomes repetitive, that _something_ is evolutionarily supplanted by _something else_ that can. So, with humanity handing off all of its "lnformątion-generating capabilities" to A.I., we're essentially sealing our fate as a species. ... Why question where humanity will be in the far, far future when our "near future" is now in question?
Ironically, I have to *incorrectly spell certain words* and use alternate characters just because an A.I. doesn't like me "repeating" certain words. ... This proves my point!
We are creating the next evolutionary step with A.I. We have been at the stage of intelligent augmentation that Ray Kurzweil predicted. The next step is Artificial General Intelligence which is quickly approaching.
@@kos-mos1127 *"We are creating the next evolutionary step with A.I."*
... Are you arguing that human intellect can supplant nature when it comes to biological evolution? If so, then I agree. However, "human intellect" doesn't guarantee that our speedy movement into the world of AI is a smart move.
*"The next step is Artificial General Intelligence which is quickly approaching."*
... What happens to humanity once this takes place?
@@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC There is no such thing as supplanting nature. Nature is open we just have this closed view of her because we are conscious. I do think A.I. will use biological processes to evolve into hyper intelligence entities. A.I. is not the real threat. The real threats are the goals they give to an A.I. Let say the goal we give an A.I. is to ensure humanities survival. The A.I. decides to turn us all into cyborgs or upload all human minds into a simulation.
Once Artificial General Intelligence occurs humanity would enhance themselves using A.I. to create a species of Post Human. As with social media there are going to be humans that do not want to live among A.I. and would have their own sanctuary.
Maybe those who are not saved wlll perish in the outer darkness. How much money will be needed to be taken on board, probably more than most of us have.
It wouldn't be worth the effort to use gargantuan electromagnetic systems to stir the interior of the sun to gain time. It would be much easier, over the course of centuries, to move humanity to another earth-like planet revolving around another sun-like star.
Really enjoyed this, thought provoking. I think our future activities will be dictated by the maxims of relativity and the knowledge we gain from our investigations into the standard model. As CERNs energy capability increases so too does our knowledge of matter and energy. Looking into the technological future I believe we will traverse the universe using wormholes. Propulsion will be spacetime manipulation. Looking into our cultural future......greed has to go.
I switched off after the climate change comment... ffs
Wait, move the earth, is he kidding. The moon, tides, the rotation. What a stupid idea. Why not just move further away.
We will not understand the term "human'' after this temporary generation ends soon because it won't be a word in our new language that will be taught to us within our created minds ( consciousness ) as we begin to learn how to move our new bodies around with our created partner of the opposite sex. In fact, we will be experiencing many different dreams, visions, simulations, worlds with many different kinds of visible bodies and some life experiences without any visible body at all.
We will be post humans.
@@kos-mos1127
We won't understand what a human being is.
I made a video for a Bar Mitzvah 23 years ago. When making a video I always added the name and date of the event to the title screen.
The mother of the boy was in my office watching me edit the video. When I went to add the title, I typed the month, the day, then the year. When I typed the year "2000", the screen showed "200". So I typed the zero again. Then the screen showed "20000".
The mother and I both looked at the screen, then we looked at each other, then I said "That isn't going to happen".
Up to that moment I had never seriously given the thought of the distant future. Written history is only about 5000 years old. I had already lived 1% of it, and there wasn't much written for the first 2500 years.
The idea that our descendants will be around a billion years from now just isn't plausible. So many possible catastrophes such as: viruses, gigantic asteroid impact, nuclear war, worldwide pollution, other unknown events could wipe out humans at any time.
I'm almost 70 now, my dad lived to be a 100. In the next 30 years if something really bad happens it will probably be the result of a nuclear war. There are plenty of bombs in place and it all it would take is the decision or mistake of one person to start the beginning of the end.
The human race isn't going to make it to the year 1,000,000,000.
Even if we could get to another moon or planet, a billion years is a long long long time.
Do you think AI will be harmful to humans?
The future will be the same as the past, build weapons and use them , naturally.
Sadly, a more realistic prediction could see the golden age of technology COLLAPSING from any of a myriad of different threats. That is a cycle that has happened before..
Fun to think about, but silly.
what will happen to Mars if Earth has orbit farther from sun?
might small stars or some type of fusion station in space be constructed to provide light and warmth in place of sun? maybe even build Dyson spheres around man made nuclear fusion reaction star types?
Those are the red dwarfs he's talking about. Stars are better than fusion reactors, because you'd need a star's worth of fuel to keep the fusion reactor going anyway.
In the far future the Skeksis will rule us! Yes!
I don't think we have a lot of time left. The avg life span of any mammalian species is about a million years. We were arguably humans with the appearance of Homo erectus that appeared 2? Million years ago. Of course Homo sapiens appeared much later...maybe 90,000 yrs ago. In any case we have over stayed our welcome. In about 45 years we run out of petroleum. But long before 2067 the supplies will be rationed and the costs very high. By 2060 we run out of soil. Globally 40% is already degraded and climate change has doubled the rate of erosion. Fresh water from aquifers, glacial melt, and ground water is veing depleted rapidly. Hi Temps during the summer, drought, floods, etc...is already impacting food security globally. Coral reefs and the protein they provide (25% of commercial fish species require reefs for deveopmnt) will be gone by 2050-2060. Environmental toxification is already reducing quality of life. And virtually all alpine glaciers and the ice sheets are melting. And we just don't have the minerals to create the renewable energy infrastructure. I don't know how many billions will die by midcentury, perhaps several billion, but we clearly won't make it to 2150. A few relic populatiins could still remain by then but extinction is sure to follow rapidly after our large coastal cities go under, and very high temps and humidity drive us away from previously viable habitat- life will be very hard in less than 50 years and impossible almost everywhere in about 150 years. The WASTELAND awaits.
important says that predict future it isnt impossible. Unpredicted conscieness NEVER predict anything because randon reality are unpredicted too. Guys RIGHT NOW doesnt knows nothing in presente when their conscieness hasnt control reality.
Two options. One choice.
why would'nt dark energy push the earth outward as the sun expanded?
From what I understood the Moon is actually moving away and has done since it and the Earth formed. What seems to be true is that small nudges can have big consequences. Maybe a survey one day to identify all potential life killing asteroids and marking them with a beacon of some kind. Doesn't account for comets though.
Maybe the Moon can be that obeject that we can use to nudge us away. I mean its already in orbit 😮
stephenb3 • In time, the local natural entropic leveling 'pushes' al material aggregates away from each other, because it is just the local difference of it that keeps everything "together".
Hubris. This idiotic idea of engineering things on this planet, instead of living within its natural contours, is the fundamental problem we refuse to face. We are “stuck” here on this beautiful planet forever. If we are able to learn to live sustainably, then we can continue to live here for millions of years BUT we will have actually gone extinct long before that through speciation. Indeed, it appears that speciation will likely occur as part of the process of learning to live sustainably. However, routine geological (trap basalts) and astronomical (meteorite impacts) events will short circuit our species stay here. Best case would be a few survivors that then speciate. Interstellar travel may occur through our AI-Robotic machines, but not by organic machines given their inherent frailty in that environment and dependence on their evolutionary home. In their travels, AI-Robots will come to see their Homo sapiens creators as some sort of myth, and will evolve and spectate themselves. We can enjoy our lives here and live long if we learn humility and consanguinity.
Grey, genderless and bald with marfans. That’s our future. 😂😂😂
And a lot of Starbucks.
Quack quack
Let's talk about something only to have something to talk about...🥴
Would life just not evolve to adapt to the heat over a billion years?
The planet will literally be on fire…
No
The Earth will have no water in about 1-2 billion years if things continue on their current course, so probably not.
Laughable. These ideals about how we can do things are idealistically made by "futurists" who deal in optimism about futurism... a practical look at what our situation is for the far future and near future- the need to move is a necessity, and our ability to leave the solar system will dictate our continued survival. Unless we can get to another nearby solar system that can sustain us (enable solar synthesis without frying us to a crisp) and in this way, we can take advantage of all the biological evolution that our emergence has given us. Getting vast amount of our planet into deep space and to other systems without killing us on the journey is key- that is not in anyone's best interest, except for science fiction writers. Using black holes... thinking we could... well, we are talking about many millions of years of technological and sociological adaptation from where we are now. This is "Closer to Fantasy".
So you don't like live in fantasy and choose being stupid and suffering? I think it is easier way. Just go with a flow and don't think too much.
Nonsense, hopium.
The word extinction only exist cause you keep thinking backwards instead of coaching or instructing your being right now.
these people are going to be dust in just a few short years - the other side of the equation
These ideas seem a bit implausible.
Why not just use the moon to move the earth?
Don’t we rely on the moons position where it already is ?
Idea that in 1 billion years if humans somehow managed to survive our technology will only be so advanced that we would need asteroids to move Earth orbit is hilarious
🙂🌎⏳🙏♥️
Obviously these guys no nothing about our past.
Changing the future happens IN THE NOW. What you project l, you manifest.
He sounds like a long lost uncle of Elon Musk
What about human evoloution after 50 billion years? will humans be basically the same just smarter? or will we be much different and see our past selves as neanderthol like humans?
They'll all be dead
💡 What if Jesus arrived in 50billion years, but the last sage was a cockroach or cricket. What futuristic scenarios could be played out?
A)could he arrive in a robotic dispossessed earth with renegade half humans?
B) could it be navarna of tranquility and AGI assisted living?
C) could he arrive in a mix alien and human society?
Hmmm but the sage was like Jiminy Cricket? I wander what Jesus would make of it and what humans would make of Him... Would Jesus think he was the Sage? Maate! Idk...but I'd hope he would get drunk and spout extinct bible lingo or would he feel lost and be wanting to mourn the loss of sin hhh. who knows ey.
In my opinion, an attempt can be made to answer this question not only with the help of science. The scientists may seek the answer by looking deep in religious books impartially. This will definitely help in shaping their mindset and thought process in the right direction.
How ? The one thing that’s certain is those that wrote those books knew a lot less than we do . I don’t want to hang the future if humanity in the ramblings of illiterate late Bronze Age goat herders
I beg to differ. Perhaps they knew a lot more than us. Ancient wisdom is being revisited by many and with awesome findings. Anyway, no harm in looking into them.
@@Bharat1-1-1 what findings ? I think “ancient wisdom “ is a myth . People died of tooth infection, they thought epilepsy was caused by demons and that lightening and poor harvests were caused by angry gods .
There's nothing to be found there except reading and realizing there are more habitable planets to be born in.
You have about 200 years and Jesus will return. Get ready!
All of the foundations of the cosmos are supernatural as proven by physics.
Delusional?
@Riley Hoffman Are they delusional or are you delusional? Probably both!
That's just to give you solace, nobody is coming just like your sleep.
We're going to move the planet?! Our brains are just that big!
We may even know what a woman is in the foreseeable future. 🤣
Certainly our definitions of woman will change , as will our definitions of everything else
@@tonyatkinson2210 And good luck with that. 👍🤣
@@whitefiddle it’s already happening.
We’re in the biblical end times right now. I don’t think we need to worry about humans in the distant future.
When would you say the end will be?
@@_Baleful Next Thursday 😆
@@_Baleful Don’t know the exact day or hour but Jesus said we’d know the general time by the signs of the times. We’re here my friend.
@@jollygreen9377 So no end times.
@@kos-mos1127 If that’s what you gathered from my comments lol
.......Your futures R so sad😭 @ ...not😭!!!.......CREATOR JEHOVAH GOD😇...name means"causes 2 become"😇....He caused the stars in the heavens 2 become😇, the vegetation for mans food 2 become, ALL animals @ insects 2 become😇, man @ woman he caused 2 become😇....w/ Jehovah GOD all things R possible😇!!!.......😎
I’m pretty sure this guy is trying to sell his books. Just look at how absurd predictions made only a hundred years ago are! We have zero idea on what the far future looks like. Assuming we have one, which on our current trajectory, is questionable.
And I’d like to draw to people’s attention the fruit loop per comment ratio in this video. I’m a little worried by some of the company I’m keeping. ; )
So if all you do is think about money you reflect that all others have to do the same?
@@KA-jm2cz what?! My comment has nothing to do with money! Try reading past the first line. You can do it!
Wow 👍
I have a book from the mid-80’s that talks about how (back then) they saw how we come create ships and such in order to move out of the galaxy.
“Interstellar Migration”
Since when has science fiction become seriously accepted truth?
Boring materialist view...
Yeah but on the other hand the material world is probably going to stubbornly stick around.
Easier to do what he said compared to going beyond speed of light