I always noticed the map was designed to basically orbit around a single focal point, but it makes sense to segment the map in a way that funnels combat. It allows for a larger playspace while still directing combat. One of the big problems of larger maps in games is that combat has no flow, no point of focus, but this seems like a decent solution!
PUBG, especially on the early maps is an example of how badly you can mess up the flow of your game by simply having bad map design. One game you're having a long intense firefight, then next match it becomes a fukin running simulator for 14 minutes straight until you eventually get funnelled into the zone with other people. More often than not, you have to be the one actively seeking for a gunfight because of how spaced out everything is and how obnoxiously large the map is with mostly empty fields.
This is the reason why I love kings canyon, it does feel more open and gives you more room to move instead of being stuck in a single lane of fights or boredom.
There is another reason for this and its actually a technical one - having these walls dividing the map helps immensely to limit the visibility and thus the amount of resources it costs to render. This is something rather unique to source engine games, since if you look at Valves maps for CS GO pseudo BR mode, they are built the same way, where at all times, part of the map is hidden behind some sort of terrain or a wall.
olympus has been and almost definitely always will be my favorite map because i think it has the most unique style and location diversity, doesn't look like average gun game
hello! i really liked your vids i found you when you where a lot smaller and saw all your vids ever since + im developing a game so i really enjoy your vids and get usefull information keep making videos love you
This is exactly why KC is and has been my favorite map in the game cuz games can either be chill or super hectic and its unpredictable makes it more repayable imo despite it being the games oldest map
2:20 Maybe it was just everyone in my friend group, but IIRC a lot of people hated worlds edge when it came out, but that might also just have been because of the campy charge rifle, watson, gibby meta that was going on at the time. Only since like season 5 when they destroyed kc that it's really become the preferred map for me and the people in my friend group. Also kinda of frustratingly they stopped putting ziplines in elevator shafts after worlds edge, not sure if anyone's noticed, but there aren't many places like streamer or construction in the new maps. If there is a zipline in a building you have much less room and no floors to reset your zip hops on. Also if you look at the original kings canyon you can see a bit more of a design direction. To me it looks like they basically made pois mostly walled off by mountains and cliffs so that you have to deal with the teams in your area before you can push a choke point that a team might be holding because if you did you probably were going to get shot in the back. I also think that they made it so that when you were the one pushing into the choke point you were the one with height and the team holding you had a worse position. I think they did a lot of this to make rotations doable, but slower to cut down on third parties, but when they brought kc back in season 5 they completely restructured the map into the mess that it's in now. Maybe it's just nostalgia and that I think the original kc was a really good map, but yeah the current kc is a mess.
Old KC was alot worse, its just nostalgia. The only reason old KC played okay at all was because half the teams died early... Which is terrible for ranked or comp
I once made a very large map and it suffered from lack of interaction since points of interest were randomly scattered. This method seems to successfully employ every space of the map as somewhere players will have to meet up eventually. It also makes people start outward and go inward, making even more use of it. The only downside is that if players stay in the edges of the map, there will generally be less interaction. That's why they put the kill circle bit this may not work in games without one.
Kings canyon does have a focal point, almost everyone ends up in that valley in the center near containment, hillside, and the river outposts. There may not be a poi there, but you always end up there. Turbine while it is the center of the map, you're more likely to pass through it and sort of meet up with everyone in the "valley" near hammond labs, kind of like the kings canyon valley.
There was a devstream or something on why KC was built like this and it was because apex was built like the arena gamemode where the little maps were connected by jump towers
Honestly what makes King's Canyon so interesting is that because the map is designed more like a bunch of Arena maps dropped wildly onto the island, where the map's central rotation ends up varies based on where the ring is pulling. A ring ending near Capacitor will often drag players across the SW flatlands leading into the PoI, where an ending in Relic will push the whole game through the river houses east of Bunker.... In fact, most of the central routes involve crossing the river in the center. Heck, a notoriously important position to control first during rotation is the high ground NE of Bunker, since it gives you the ability to pick a fight with or rotate into any nearby PoIs or choke points. Though, as someone who really likes King's Canyon and the endless fight that is the 7th Party fight, The important PoIs can interact with one another a bit too easily. The distance between many of the adjacent PoIs in the SW (where this effect is most observable) is like... 15 seconds before you start using movement Legends? No privacy: your fight, is their fight, is there fight, is their-
I really do just miss out for so many games. I quit Apex before any other maps were released, it was terrible imho on launch. Just... sucked, in just about every way possible, AND it was in a genre of games I typically hate. Now it's got all this cool map design stuff going on, people keep talking to me about it, it's still alive which genuinely surprises me... I feel like I jumped ship too early. Oh well, I'm not getting origin again so I'll just leave it alone.
i hate how king's canyon was almost never in the rotation since apex got 2 whole other maps (world's edge and olympus) and it was my favorite map tbh (idk what's the current state cuz i stopped playing this game)
I personally really like apexs maps they all allow for good rotating but at the same time it has choke points which I feel like is really good in a battle royale and funnels people into certain points allowing for more interesting later zones.
There is also a major component of optimization as can be seen from Source Engine Danger Zone maps it is important that areas are segregated by a central mass.
I like the pizza design a lot, it makes the game feel more like you are progressing, but it does take away from the randomness which can make the playability more long lasting. You might get bored with a pizza map after a while.
Olympus is the goat. Kings canyon second best. Worlds edge the worst by a country mile . And the rest fall somewhere in the middle but more towards the trash side of things
Hey garbaj, I’m looking for fellow game developers to make a game with, do you have a discord or something or know of a place where I could find other liked minded people?
I think their maps have 1 or 2 to many funnel type areas.. Like its fine to have barriers for funning players into areas, but at the same time i feel like having to many only limits potentials for clutch/recovery plays and quick adjustments to the situation changing. though its not a massive issue by any means... just a lil tweak i think the maps could benefit from
There is some notably REALLY GOOD map design philosophy in Apex- but I have to say the whole "giant hill with alot of rocks" idea is getting old (Kings Canyon, Storm and Moon all feel this way imo). Worlds Edge and Olympus remain my favourite maps for not being that way.
i love how "unpredictability" means its bad. get good. if you are good you plan for unpredictability.... basically they say well if this player doesnt do this they are bad...... then why did they beat you? they did something unpredictable.... out of the norm should you say. they arent bad, they are just different and require a different skll set/ thought process to fight. same with maps. so they arent bad, they are just bad for "pros" who think everyone should play the same way
damn pizzas are ruining my Apex! the unpredictability of Kings Canyon makes the map so great. I actually noticed that when they updated the map, it more and more morphed into a Pizza but the Pizza is literally ruining the game. everyone complains about 3rd and 5th parties on so gigantic maps. They are all right.
Another factor to the pizza design is that its probably better for optimization. With all the large mountains/objects blocking sight lines, the game doesn’t have to render anything beyond that point, leading to better FPS.
Man i'd totally be a patreon if you had a $1 tier I don't think I'm alone in that. Having $5 and $7 tiers makes sense but you need a tier for those of us living on weed dealer money not just coke dealer money
Such a design is driven by the Source engine, which works poorly with open world games. It works and shines the best on such projects as Dota2 and CS:GO with limited-size maps. Respawn had to compromise and build the maps such a way.
More precisely speakign regarding Kings Canyon: KC was designed for Titanfall BR, which means it was designed for the Kudzu movement pattern caused by fast wall running (which makes walls useless) and Titans (requiring a scaled up version of CSGO map in essence)
Interesting information. I thought all BR maps would be random and thats the feature but i think apex lost so many players because of th3 first map that the developers had to create new maps with more thoughtful layout so that the typical arena fps player has less casual experiences and doesnt get randomly killed or third partied that often.
Kings Canyon remains my favorite map next to Olympus. More random map design please. Battle royales need more chaotic influence as opposed to tactical planning
Kings Canyon is still best map for me. The original version of it specially. Newer maps didn't bring me anything other than just competitivity, which was never the highest point in the game for me. Too bad, I miss Kings Canyon A LOT
map is in the form of a pizza and no one touches the crust)
:)
Coz it's not a cheese crust pizza.
WE LOVE CRUST -This post was made by the pro crust gang
@@lj6284 ye ye
@@lj6284 😏😏😏
I always noticed the map was designed to basically orbit around a single focal point, but it makes sense to segment the map in a way that funnels combat. It allows for a larger playspace while still directing combat.
One of the big problems of larger maps in games is that combat has no flow, no point of focus, but this seems like a decent solution!
it's like the reversal of a snail race
PUBG, especially on the early maps is an example of how badly you can mess up the flow of your game by simply having bad map design.
One game you're having a long intense firefight, then next match it becomes a fukin running simulator for 14 minutes straight until you eventually get funnelled into the zone with other people. More often than not, you have to be the one actively seeking for a gunfight because of how spaced out everything is and how obnoxiously large the map is with mostly empty fields.
Then there is the end of that tunnel where you have Meat Grinders
Kings Canyon was designed like a true location with a past newly adapted for a battle royale. Makes it a more believable location and tbh, best map.
Maybe, but it's not fun compared to WE or Olympus.
@@vrnvorona no for me it’s much more fun than those two
old king's canyon was alot more cluttered and combat was alot more short ranged (and fun in my opinion) until they bombed the shit out of everything
@@beenguy5887 fr it's almost certainly nostalgia, but give us old KC back
Kings Canyon is great for pubs... And that's the only place it should ever be played.
and they even got the pepperonis right
yum
This is the reason why I love kings canyon, it does feel more open and gives you more room to move instead of being stuck in a single lane of fights or boredom.
Also the walls are a huge part of optimization!
So the slices funnel the players into each other to push interactions and fights. Very clever level design.
There is another reason for this and its actually a technical one - having these walls dividing the map helps immensely to limit the visibility and thus the amount of resources it costs to render. This is something rather unique to source engine games, since if you look at Valves maps for CS GO pseudo BR mode, they are built the same way, where at all times, part of the map is hidden behind some sort of terrain or a wall.
olympus has been and almost definitely always will be my favorite map because i think it has the most unique style and location diversity, doesn't look like average gun game
"so what should we call the place that woody and buzz find the alien toys in?"
0:39
hello! i really liked your vids i found you when you where a lot smaller and saw all your vids ever since + im developing a game so i really enjoy your vids and get usefull information keep making videos love you
This is exactly why KC is and has been my favorite map in the game cuz games can either be chill or super hectic and its unpredictable makes it more repayable imo despite it being the games oldest map
Its great for pubs... And thats it. Unpredictable sucks for ranked or competitive
nice video man
that 2x mozambique is criminal
i love the new thumbnail for this lol
1:41 dude uses Bruiser on Mozambique but not flatline 😂
Welp I just learned why I love King's Canyon so much
now i am a millimeter more peckish than i was before thanks to that thumbnail, best evil thing to do, ever
2:20 Maybe it was just everyone in my friend group, but IIRC a lot of people hated worlds edge when it came out, but that might also just have been because of the campy charge rifle, watson, gibby meta that was going on at the time. Only since like season 5 when they destroyed kc that it's really become the preferred map for me and the people in my friend group. Also kinda of frustratingly they stopped putting ziplines in elevator shafts after worlds edge, not sure if anyone's noticed, but there aren't many places like streamer or construction in the new maps. If there is a zipline in a building you have much less room and no floors to reset your zip hops on. Also if you look at the original kings canyon you can see a bit more of a design direction. To me it looks like they basically made pois mostly walled off by mountains and cliffs so that you have to deal with the teams in your area before you can push a choke point that a team might be holding because if you did you probably were going to get shot in the back. I also think that they made it so that when you were the one pushing into the choke point you were the one with height and the team holding you had a worse position. I think they did a lot of this to make rotations doable, but slower to cut down on third parties, but when they brought kc back in season 5 they completely restructured the map into the mess that it's in now. Maybe it's just nostalgia and that I think the original kc was a really good map, but yeah the current kc is a mess.
Old KC was alot worse, its just nostalgia. The only reason old KC played okay at all was because half the teams died early... Which is terrible for ranked or comp
i havent played apex in so long that im surprised it even has multiple maps lmao
apex is fire no cap
This was a cool way to think about map design Thankyou ❤🎉
Spooder man 2 pizza theme
0:46 It looks like a cookie chip for me
Imma be honest, kings canyon is my favorite apex map so I am a burger fan now
that was actually very insightful
title and thumbnail change spotted
I once made a very large map and it suffered from lack of interaction since points of interest were randomly scattered.
This method seems to successfully employ every space of the map as somewhere players will have to meet up eventually. It also makes people start outward and go inward, making even more use of it.
The only downside is that if players stay in the edges of the map, there will generally be less interaction. That's why they put the kill circle bit this may not work in games without one.
Kings canyon does have a focal point, almost everyone ends up in that valley in the center near containment, hillside, and the river outposts. There may not be a poi there, but you always end up there. Turbine while it is the center of the map, you're more likely to pass through it and sort of meet up with everyone in the "valley" near hammond labs, kind of like the kings canyon valley.
Where are my Pineapple pieces?
And where is my corn?
😂
There was a devstream or something on why KC was built like this and it was because apex was built like the arena gamemode where the little maps were connected by jump towers
can i just say... that title is amazing, truely genious!
0:37 those are pineapple slices
Very interesting!! Thx!
I love the Hunger Games
pepperoni of interest
When i go to turbine most of the time theres only one other squad
I didn't even know apex had more than 2 maps.
mmmm yummy pizza i’m so hungry
Hunt showdown compounds are kinda like puzzle pieces
I would like them to experiment a bit with this.
Honestly what makes King's Canyon so interesting is that because the map is designed more like a bunch of Arena maps dropped wildly onto the island, where the map's central rotation ends up varies based on where the ring is pulling. A ring ending near Capacitor will often drag players across the SW flatlands leading into the PoI, where an ending in Relic will push the whole game through the river houses east of Bunker....
In fact, most of the central routes involve crossing the river in the center. Heck, a notoriously important position to control first during rotation is the high ground NE of Bunker, since it gives you the ability to pick a fight with or rotate into any nearby PoIs or choke points.
Though, as someone who really likes King's Canyon and the endless fight that is the 7th Party fight, The important PoIs can interact with one another a bit too easily. The distance between many of the adjacent PoIs in the SW (where this effect is most observable) is like... 15 seconds before you start using movement Legends? No privacy: your fight, is their fight, is there fight, is their-
Happy Friday!
Maps were built For Titians
yum
I can eat the crust then move to the middle
I really do just miss out for so many games. I quit Apex before any other maps were released, it was terrible imho on launch. Just... sucked, in just about every way possible, AND it was in a genre of games I typically hate. Now it's got all this cool map design stuff going on, people keep talking to me about it, it's still alive which genuinely surprises me... I feel like I jumped ship too early.
Oh well, I'm not getting origin again so I'll just leave it alone.
i guess this is the equivalent to the 4square design in csgo or 3lane in cod. it makes for hotspots and more predictable player flow
i hate how king's canyon was almost never in the rotation since apex got 2 whole other maps (world's edge and olympus) and it was my favorite map tbh (idk what's the current state cuz i stopped playing this game)
How is "bootyblastin" going on?
Are there any new features or changes?
I'm hungry now
SODA!!!
Kings Canyon kinda feels and looks a bit like a theme park
I like how garbaj is not talking about the newly released godot4
Probably still experimenting with it behind closed cover haha
Planet Pizza* ;)
good video
Yall trippin kings canyon fun as hell
Honestly i think it's a good thing imo that Kings Canyon doesn't have the pizza layout. It makes it more fun for casual play
BRING BACK OLYMPUS
its a cube shape and i dont know... what you expect a pineapple map?
It's funnels, to pull the players closer together.
I have to say there were some pretty cool looking apex scenes in this video. I just wish the game wasn't so damn slow...
I personally really like apexs maps they all allow for good rotating but at the same time it has choke points which I feel like is really good in a battle royale and funnels people into certain points allowing for more interesting later zones.
Fuck yeah!!!! Pizza planet!!!!
fuck getting third party'd. King's Canyon all the way!
Storm was already too big. On broken moon you just run around until you meet last team. Edge and King are best.
KC is way too small.
You only feel this way because you only play pubs or low level ranked.
Imo KC should be pubs only.
i started playing again recently, why are arenas not here anymore?
Hi Garbaj
There is also a major component of optimization as can be seen from Source Engine Danger Zone maps it is important that areas are segregated by a central mass.
This! Source Engine is the main culprit.
Battle royale? More like hungry games
You should check out BATTLEBIT Remastered
Apex is an amazing game and it still has so much potential its just sad its being limited by EA
I like the pizza design a lot, it makes the game feel more like you are progressing, but it does take away from the randomness which can make the playability more long lasting. You might get bored with a pizza map after a while.
Olympus is the goat. Kings canyon second best. Worlds edge the worst by a country mile . And the rest fall somewhere in the middle but more towards the trash side of things
Hey garbaj, I’m looking for fellow game developers to make a game with, do you have a discord or something or know of a place where I could find other liked minded people?
I think their maps have 1 or 2 to many funnel type areas.. Like its fine to have barriers for funning players into areas, but at the same time i feel like having to many only limits potentials for clutch/recovery plays and quick adjustments to the situation changing.
though its not a massive issue by any means... just a lil tweak i think the maps could benefit from
Ey bro upload some shorts again
There is some notably REALLY GOOD map design philosophy in Apex- but I have to say the whole "giant hill with alot of rocks" idea is getting old (Kings Canyon, Storm and Moon all feel this way imo).
Worlds Edge and Olympus remain my favourite maps for not being that way.
i love how "unpredictability" means its bad. get good. if you are good you plan for unpredictability.... basically they say well if this player doesnt do this they are bad...... then why did they beat you? they did something unpredictable.... out of the norm should you say. they arent bad, they are just different and require a different skll set/ thought process to fight. same with maps. so they arent bad, they are just bad for "pros" who think everyone should play the same way
imagine paying to be called trash lol
(joking tho, i love it)
damn pizzas are ruining my Apex!
the unpredictability of Kings Canyon makes the map so great. I actually noticed that when they updated the map, it more and more morphed into a Pizza but the Pizza is literally ruining the game. everyone complains about 3rd and 5th parties on so gigantic maps. They are all right.
Another factor to the pizza design is that its probably better for optimization. With all the large mountains/objects blocking sight lines, the game doesn’t have to render anything beyond that point, leading to better FPS.
Oh I get it! If you want to win, grab some pepperonis on your way to the center, no one likes the crust. Jk I've never played this game
Of course the only good map is the one that doesn't follow the rule.
Man i'd totally be a patreon if you had a $1 tier I don't think I'm alone in that. Having $5 and $7 tiers makes sense but you need a tier for those of us living on weed dealer money not just coke dealer money
the new maps were the reason i dropped it
You can never satisfy every player that's the problem
Is booty blastin gonna be free?
they should slice their pizzas better
Such a design is driven by the Source engine, which works poorly with open world games. It works and shines the best on such projects as Dota2 and CS:GO with limited-size maps. Respawn had to compromise and build the maps such a way.
More precisely speakign regarding Kings Canyon: KC was designed for Titanfall BR, which means it was designed for the Kudzu movement pattern caused by fast wall running (which makes walls useless) and Titans (requiring a scaled up version of CSGO map in essence)
Interesting information. I thought all BR maps would be random and thats the feature but i think apex lost so many players because of th3 first map that the developers had to create new maps with more thoughtful layout so that the typical arena fps player has less casual experiences and doesnt get randomly killed or third partied that often.
How is Apex these days?
people play this game still?
Damn, if I had noticed this back when I tried the game, I would've had much more fun.
Kings Canyon remains my favorite map next to Olympus. More random map design please. Battle royales need more chaotic influence as opposed to tactical planning
Someone get this man a pizza.
He's clearly crying out for help here.
Kings Canyon is still best map for me. The original version of it specially. Newer maps didn't bring me anything other than just competitivity, which was never the highest point in the game for me.
Too bad, I miss Kings Canyon A LOT
1st
first must pin.....
Bruh, is your game out yet? Damn, you procrastinate a lot.
can this comment get 2 replys