Installing a Power Drawbar to Avoid Breaking More End Mills
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- Today we're installing a power drawbar on the Precision Matthews PM935-TV knee mill. This vertical milling machine uses standard R8 collets and has a manual drawbar from the factory. I purchased an air-powerd automatic power drawbar kit, and today we'll see how hard it is to install. Spoilers: it's actually pretty easy.
This is the power drawbar kit I purchased (not sponsored): www.precisionmatthews.com/sho...
Tools used in this video:
*This site contains affiliate links for which I may be compensated
3/8" Nylon Pneumatic Tubing (Amazon*): amzn.to/3Rl9kx0
Milwaukee M18 Cordless Drill (Amazon*): amzn.to/3POpFte
Milwaukee Brushless 3/8" Impact (Amazon*): amzn.to/3uxwHJ4
3/8" Allen Driver Impact Socket Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/3oylrei
Shars Ultra Precision 1-2-3 Blocks (pair) (Amazon*): amzn.to/3Bd8MUg
Aventor 8" DPS IP54 Caliper (Amazon*): amzn.to/3KNwWaV
Bondhus Metric Hex Key Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/3eqZzwb
Bondhus SAE Hex Key Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/3h9bJLZ
Tap Wrench - Extra Long Ratcheting (Amazon*): amzn.to/3bmlPsd
Transfer Punch Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/2ZjZL8g
Raw Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
00:00 Intro
01:05 What comes in the kit
03:33 Installing the drawbar
05:06 Installing the Motor
05:47 Installing the switches (valves)
06:49 Installing the filter and lubricator
08:40 Hooking up the air lines
11:29 Testing the power drawbar
13:36 Wrap
power draw bar installation power draw bar for milling machine pneumatic drawbar power drawbar bridgeport power drawbar install
Long shafted tools are much easier to control and keep perpendicular, so I'm with you on that for tapping.
Another nice upgrade, even without a permanently installed tap fragment.
Looks nice. I would think an interlock would be a good add on to keep from ejecting a tool by accident if the spindle is turning. Thanks for sharing!
Absolutely agree! Oddly I just stopped wiring an interlock on my home-brewed power drawbar for my Bridgeport to watch this video!
I put a limit switch on the operating lever with N/O and N/C contacts. The N/C contacts break the control voltage to the spindle motor contactor and the N/O are wired to a solenoid valve in the air feed to the drawbar engage pneumatic cylinder and air motor. Not 100% foolproof because of the spindle run-down time but should stop me doing anything totally stupid!
if the spindle is turning, the impacts of the drawbar motor won't loosen the tool. We have had these for 15ish years in a production shop.
I replaced the whole manifold on my California Air Tools compressor. It had a leak and I found that the manifold casting had holes in many of the mating surfaces and threads. Cutting new ones a little deeper just revealed more casting imperfections. So I designed a new manifold from the ground up, and it’s been great. I have 3 independent regulators so that I can have an air nozzle, a die grinder, and an impact driver all on the same manifold. Let me know and I can send pictures, models, and drawings.
My 2 gallon Cal Air compressor had the pressure reg knob hissing problem. So, I took it the valve all apart, to find a plastic part was sticking. I added some grease and smoothed out the fit, then put it all back together. It's been fine for several years since.
At first, I was mad that this otherwise nice quiet compressor had broken so soon. But as is the case with tools made to a price, we add our TLC to bring the quality up to snuff.
Love your shop set-up. Sunday morning enjoy watching your shop improvement.👍👍
Those synthetic grease packets are almost as bad as anti sieze. In 30+ years I still am puzzled at how a drop of anti sieze on the tip of your finger at 1:15 pm, will be inside the back of your knees, under both arms, and have your face looking like the tin man from wizard of oz by 1:17pm..
I have the same brand in my Wells-Index 847... Installed not a year ago. It has been the best money spent for my milling machine so far... You are going to love it!
Nice work, isn't it nice to just fit an upgrade that works straight out of the box. Happy days. Thanks for sharing.
Wow that's a nice kit! Looks like lots of new things coming to the precision matthews lineup (CNC lathes, new chucks, etc) - I wish there was a plug and play kit like this for my 833
I think I use the same safety sandals you have. 😅
also...very cool upgrade for the mill.
I like this type over the spring washer type, I have heard a lot of issues of tool pull out. Congrats James!
Very nice video, straight forward and clear.
Had ordered mine with the mill, love it!
You are going to LOVE that unit. This is exactly what I have.
Excellent video, I am in the process of ordering one for my South Bend SB1024F. This made a lot more sense for the measuring process to get my new drawbar in the correct size.
Thanks James , good preview for installing one on my 935
thank you for everything you do for the lovers of mechanical manufacturing and the new technology for digitizing machine tools and for turning and milling (poor unfortunates)
Nice addition James!
You do buy all of the kool tools. I like the way you think out every detail. I was about to comment about tilting the head with the short tube when you beat me to it. Great minds think alike and all that.
Hey James - thanks for reviewing. I’m looking to upgrade my mill and this is one I’ve been looking at and I was thinking about this accessory. I bought a new compressor recently - from a near by Lowes’s - it a Kobalt brand, 26 gal “Quiet Tech” - and I really like it. I can have it running and stand next to it and talk to someone in a normal voice. Love your channel, keep up the good work.
Nice upgrade! !
Very very nice. It looks nice also.
They really are a nice addition to a mill. Big time saver plus 2 less wrenches cluttering up the place 😊.
A rare occurrence to have an accessory go on like it should lol.
Cheers!
Yeah, I totally expected to have to modify something.
Looks like a nice set up, I just may do that to my PM950-V I never thought I needed that but I use one at work some and I kinda like it. Makes Changing tools ok without getting my step stool.
I don’t know anything about LP air regulators, but I do enjoy watching you make stuff.
Thanks for sharing 👍
I too have a PM mill and have purchased and installed a power draw bar. I have managed to drop and chip end mills with it. With more time 'tho I seem to have managed to learn how to release the end mill (or what have you) very gradually so it doesn't drop AND to be sure only release the draw bar when if all else fails and the part drops it has a VERY limited distance to drop. Frankly the appeal of a floor mounted brake pedal is appealing but so far I've managed to procrastinate on that. I only recently found you channel and very much enjoy it.
Kind of a flimsy excuse to buy a $800 power drawbar...I love it !
In the near future I'll install one of these after I install the DRO on my PM 925TS mill. Many thanks
Very nice upgrade James. Ciao, Marco.
That’s the way to push our buttons …….. 👍👍😂👍👍. James, you are already incredibly productive. I suspect adding this powered drawbar will free up some frustrating time that will coincidentally provide us even more quality and interesting content. Good choice. 👏👏
Thanks for showing the TTS stuff I have been wondering about that.
They're convenient on a manual mill, but their real benefit is that they register against the face of the spindle, so you can have the tool lengths pre-programmed in your CNC controller and they repeat when you swap tools.
Added this to the 'things I didn't know I needed' list... Thanks for helping me spend money :)
Happy to help!
Plug'n'play. Nice addition to your mill 😁. I will have to DIY one for mine 😅
I've had my Makita 3gal compressor for about 18 months. So far, not a single glitch. It's super quiet, and refills very fast.
Pretty awesome!
I picked up a Harbor Freight Fortress "Ultra Quiet" compressor a few months back, which is basically a clone of the CAT model you have, but at 2/3rd the price (and actually available where I live). Have been very impressed with it so far, I have it sitting right next to my CNC computer cart and it's crazy how quiet it is compared to normal compressors. I keep it pressurized all the time (although powered off) and no leaking... yet. lol. Also, have never seen an impact-style power drawbar -- have only seen the spring washer/clamping type.
Pressure regulators are usually standardized across manufacturers to avoid liability. Just get on Amazon and pick one rated for your compressor. California air is considered a very good brand and very quiet. I would happily trade my working 5 gallon Porter Cable for yours, broken or not. 😂
I put the make one in my Bridgeport Series II CNC machine. It is easy to install and works very well.
I love this channel!
I was hoping you would do a Dave Jones and take it apart!
Also on the compressor, because of where you have yours you could just ditch the built in regulator and bring the full tank pressure off the compressor then run it to a regulator on the wall before it is distributed in the shop.
That's not a bad idea.
@@Clough42 First I'd try replacing that suspect seal with teflon tape, assuming you can't find a proper replacement.
That's super cool. I wish I still had my Dad's Manual.
Yup. I just broke off a drill bit in my mill. Right there with ya buddy.
You might consider installing an adjustable restriction in the air line from the switch to the motor, the closeting side only, and tune it to control the rapid run up. If the release is also too violent, then do the same for that line to the motor.
It's not just the pressure, but the volume that causes a harsh application/release with pneumatic actuators.
Tim
Worth thinking about. There is a minimum to get it to pull in and engage the splines.
I like my torque-rite. Has worked flawlessly for me. Upgraded to better quality air tubing from Hose Power. No kinks and seals better.
Makita makes some quiet compressors, I've had very good luck with mine. Mine is smaller, not sure what they have in the size you would want. It is heavier but runs at lower RPM.
"Here's a half-inch end mill, free the one I dropped," he said without a hint of bitterness in his voice.
Nice little project, James. I’m happy to see that I’m not the only one that will go to the trouble on things that don’t really matter to anyone other than me (I’d get annoyed every time I looked at those hoses, too).
One thing that I do whenever drilling & tapping holes in a machine: I make a little “sling” out of painter’s tape and stick it under the soon-to-be-hole to catch the chips/dust so that there is less chance of anything finding its way into a machined mating surface (I tried just using a cloth, but it always seemed that the chips just wait until I remove the cloth to drop where I don’t want them - with the tape I’ve been luckier and the chips adhere to the tape). I’d upload a photo, but still haven’t figured out how to do so in UA-cam.
Oh, that's a good idea. I sometimes use a vacuum, which I suppose could also be taped to the machine near the hole.
@@Clough42 I've tried positioning a vacuum hose, but it either gets in the way or moves at a critical time. I sent you a photo of my rig via your website contact email address.
@@ChazzC @Clough42 I made a shop vac adapter that used 1/2" flexible copper tube with a big mag base, so I can clamp it to the table out of the way, and position it just where I need it.
We have same exact Power draw bar on our school (that I teach) 2 axis Trak Mill - hybrid CNC and Manual machine - with R8 Collets
Only issues we ever have is that collets get stuck in spindle some times and eventually some one strips the drawbar. I think many are over tightened. I prefer to use solid R8 holders with common endmills and also a solid holder keyless drill chuck. Good luck
I have to think California Air Tools would have a solution for you. They really are the quietest on the market. Hard to beat.
And, I think most of the "ultra quiet" models by other brands are being white labeled by them. They all have the same form factor.
I like the Power Drawbar. I Also like the way you tink about ubgrading the workschop. I wonder what kind of work you gonne take on?
Hi James,
That's a nice simple install.
The only thing that I would suggest is increasing the length of tubing between the oiling mainafold and the controlls, if you ever turn or rotate the mill head, then it's going to come right out.
Regards
Yup. I realized my mistake during editing. I have more tubing. :)
We have those exact same pneumatic drawbar and mill in my school
We haven't had the best track record with them though as they usually don't have enough torque to push out the tool so we have to take the thing off and do it by hand
the 20gal masterforce "ultra quiet" compressor from menards has served me pretty well. A lot quieter than a normal compressor, but i dont know how it compares to the one you have.
I mean, a California Air Tools is probably what the Masterforce is a clone of...
Hey James, I have the Eastwood QST 30/60 compressor. It does require 220V though. I can't compare it to a CAT compressor, as I've never been around one. But if I'm not in the same 'room' of my garage when it turns on, I usually don't notice that it was even running until it turns off and the pressure switch lets out the excess pressure. Thanks for the vid- I also have a PM 935 and had wondered about the power drawbar kit.
Would like to see some of the jobs your machines are used for, they are really nice machines
Matching the curvature of the air hoses might even exceed my level of OCD. I was wondering how the PDB would work with R8 and TTS where you just want to loosen, not remove. I switched over to NMTB30 many years ago. Maybe an update once you have some time with it. I remember some R8 getting pretty stuck, and I wonder if the impacting would always be enough to bust them loose.
Yep, the compressor is one of the problems you will always have, one of the reasons back in 2013 I opted for a 24 volt electric actuator type draw bar for my Skyfire CNC mill.....I have ISO 20 tooling so the draw bar is different to yours in that it is a Bellville washer spring loaded type and the actuator only has to move 6mm to unlock the tool holder........some time after getting the mill the actuator burnt out due to it being over powered to 36 volts....manufacturer over sight.........they assumed the drawbar would only be hit momentarily for each clamp and unclamp.......well and good but after a week it failed.....rebuild on the way.
I would suggest a bigger air tank or long pipe type system you pump up only once in a while but it does take up some room if it's a cylindrical type ....the pipe type consists of several long steel pipes 150mm diam placed in the roof of the shop and out of the way.
13:13 - I keep thinking. "One day, it's going to pinch you".
The spring loaded "unloader doo-dad" on mine kept failing to seat and seal when it started. It would hiss for a long time before maybe sealing. I fussed with the spring tension until I finally gave up and eventually tossed the spring. No problems and it seals every time now. If I want to put the spring back in later I think that it rolled under the mill for safe keeping.
Nice! But what happens to the air tubes when/if you tilt the spindle head?
I just use R8 tool holders with an electric 3/8" ratchet for a "power drawbar." R8 tool holder is much more rigid than collets and the tool length in the tool table remains the same after tool changes. Collets and TTS toolholders I use for chamfer bit, drills, and small endmills.
I have a 1969 Bridgeport series 1. My problem is I am too short [5'9"] for the Bridgeport drawbar. I bought a 24.75" Lagun drawbar from Enco that sticks out the top. I had to chase the threads [would not fit in the R8] and make a centering collar, but it has been working for 7 years.
You have a cool watch! I want info on that.
Checked PM's prices and they seem OK. Wish they had one for an 'Merican Bridgeport (not clone)! I bought a Tormach PCNC1100 power drawbar this year at the Bash from Tom Lipton (great deal!). Totally different set up and only works with the TTS as you're just de-tensioning the drawbar enough to drop out a TTS holder. It does NOT unthread the drawbar but compresses belleville washers instead. Once installed, you can ONLY use the TTS system without removing the air cylinder.
Knowing what impact tools can do to threads over a long time (time here depending on how much over-torque / hammering occurs), I am not a fan of air-impact powered collet draw bars. I haven't dropped a tool out of the spindle in many years, either, as I either use a soft bunched up catch towel or have one work glove protected hand on the cutter / drill chuck / whatever until it is secure, and use a bungee to pull the brake handle, or just tighten the spindle wrench against the momentum of the spindle, while i snug the drawbar enough to hold the tool in the collet. Then give a final pull on the wrench using the brake. I also keep the threads and thrust face of the drawbar oiled with EP gear oil. One thing I find fairly universal is machinists who believe the drawbar has to be torqued "good n tight" i.e. to beyond 15 ft-lbs. I've never had to do that. That's just overkill.
That’s a really nice kit. I’ve wondered if anyone with a Bridgeport style mill has setup a Tormach type drawbar. Did you think about using that type before going this route?
Another option is what I use. The tormach TTS tooling and a 3/4 collet with the face ground flush.
Hi James, I was hoping you would come up with a solution for adding spindle oil from the top, with the power drawbar, without removing it. I have the same unit (I can't work without it). I was thinking of drilling a hole on the diameter of the base plate to another hole, over the spindle, and adding a Gits oil cup. Your thoughts? Love your content, thanks for the video.
I have an air command AC15 compressor. Unfortunately it is 3hp as we have 230V supply here in NZ, so probably not much use to you. Other than that, Air Command is actually a good brand.
How did the old timers do it? I usually break the tension then grab the end mill or whatever tool is in the mill and then hand loosen from there. Tool comes out and everything is super-duper happy. Never had an issue so far.
Yeah, this is exactly what I normally do, and how I dropped it. I broke the tension, and it dropped. Usually, it will stick until I tap the drawbar, but not this time. But to be fair, we all know the dropped end mill is just a thin excuse to buy new tools. :)
@@Clough42 HA HA HA!!!! Good one. Can never have too many tools. I did break an end mill but it wasn't on the machine and thankfully it was a chip break and I had it re-ground.
Oh yes!
Scroll compressor will definitely be much quieter than piston. Probably has a pro-sumer price to match. I’d also consider an air dryer as part of the upgrade.
I also had a California air compressor with a leaky air regulator. I took the regulator off to replace it and then it wouldn’t turn on. Had to fix the air switch but now it’s auto on all the time. Ended up getting a 4HP scroll compressor instead.
sounds like youre rotating the tyres on the car... Can't suggest a new compressor brand, but I recently went with one of the "silent" style units, and I love it. Barely know when it engages, no deafening noise in the shop making you jump in the air and toss tools across the room when it kicks in unexpectedly like with the old shed rattler.
I have a Makita MAC2400 Compressor it is running low rpm and it is Very Quiet oil lubricated very reliable Higly recomended!
79db
Big bore.
nice of them to include sweet and sour sauce with the kit
Wonder if it will fit on my chevalier mill , and have you installed a knee power feed on one yet?
Thanks for replacing that folded hose. That was bugging me as well.
I love my Eastwood QST 30/60 scroll compressor. It's quiet, solidly built, and has separately replaceable parts. They're not cheap, but I've long since forgotten the pain of paying for it.
Oh, that looks like a really nice compressor.
@@Clough42 it really is.
I have one also and really like it. It’s not just quiet it will run a sandblaster or other tool that requires a lot of air volume.
@Alex Bakker and @Mark Caroll @ MichaeI have been investigating that compressor and really love the noise level and the package. I am concerned about the water that apparently gets into the oil system though. A few people on youtube show some major issues with that. The company suggests taking the cover off and draining the water from the oil once per month which looks like a pain. Are you doing that? Is it a pain have you had any of the issues that seem to be happening with pressure switch problems or oil related issues? I can't tell if it's a few disgruntled guys on youtube or a real issue. There seem to be satisfied users out there just not many on youtube. TIA
@@ScottDube1 I haven’t noticed issues, but the one I’ve used is at a friends shop not mine. I’ve got a 7.5HP eaton which is quotes just because it is big and slow. Not CA air tools quiet, but, still pretty good.
Hey i was wondering big it’d be possible to make a pretty high quality 3d printer with your cnc mill. Maybe it would be a cool project to try it
I can't wait to see this mounted on your manual lathe....LOL!🤣🤣
Place a metering valve on the out side of the valve block to have more control over releasing the tool.
My friend upgraded from an older HF to a Kobalt Quiet Tech compressor. Sometimes we have to touch the compressor to know that it's running.
a rubber sheet shim between the air motor and housing so as not to make viscous banging sound upon activation?
Heh. I just bought a 1/2 inch drive ratchet and a 5/8 socket separate from my standard tool set just so I could leave it at the Mill. I was frustrated by the tools that came with the mill and did not want use the low quality wrench that came with the machine anymore. Not to say that I’m not a bit envious of your power drawbar system. It’s spiffy as hell. But Mine is a PM727 and the drawbar is a little too close to the motor for a fancy kit like you have. That’s a darned fine shop you’ve put together. Out of curiosity do you have other friends with shops who inspire capabilities or layout desires or is UA-cam kinda your… uhhh, call it a shop spirit animal?
It's a combination of a lot of things. I grew up around my grandpa's farm shop, "helping" him fix just about everything. I have a couple of friends locally with shops, and have met a bunch of great people through the UA-cam machinist community.
I’ve been using my HF fortress quite compressor for my than 6months now -and of course the price is much better - it’s a possibility 😀
I know someone who bought the little .5hp Fortress, and it's super quiet. I bought the California Air Tools based on the expectation that it was a premium brand and I'd have a trouble-free experience. I like the compressor, but if my experience is not going to be much different from the HF alternative, it's hard to justify the dollars.
when you have all the cool toys LOL
The spindle motor probably dos not get very hot while using it, maybe be a custom box around it wit sound demping material will take care of your sound irritation. A test setup with a cardboard box and sound demping material would give you the answer. Maybe a nice little project.
I've always wondered in the case of these manual-to-power drawbar conversions - how do they avoid cross-threading? I guess the threads are always roughly aligned because of the spindle bore, but wouldn't you still risk chewing them up if you tried to tighten it while the drawbar threads were at an unfortunate angle?
R8 collet threads have enough of a lead-in to center the drawbar before the threads engage.
I was at a place that had a power drawbard settup. Forgot the brand. But if i tried to take a .002 chip load on half inch endmills on anealed tool amd milld steel, they would break. I had to use a pathetic half thou chip load. Could you inform me on what issues could have been going on that i wasnt aware of. I was conventional milling too.
Hi James, would you elaborate on why you wanted to avoid the Belleville washer stack option? I've been contemplating a power drawbar for a while, but google has not been kind when I search for the pros and cons of the different types (pneumatic impact/motor, electric motor, electric impact, Belleville washer stack... with pneumatic cylinder, hydraulic cylinder, linear actuator, and etc.).
Also how controllable is the new air motor with PSI adjustments? I'm guessing you can drop the speed nicely but at the cost of the final torque.
Thanks for the video!
The belleville washers set the amount of force on the drawbar, and lots of people who have that type of drawbar system report issues with tools pulling out while cutting. I'm sure it's possible to adjust it so it works, but it sounds from what I've heard like it's hard to get it adjusted so it releases easily and also holds the tools tight enough. I've had TTS tools pull out in my G0704, and it's no fun.
@@Clough42 I see. That makes sense. I've seen posts on the 'net of folks using Belleville stacks that range from under 1,000 lbs. of force to around 3,000 lbs. I suspect the 3,000 lb. stacks work better but require expensive multistage pneumatic cylinders to compress them.
Your new power drawbar looks awesome. When you mentioned... taking some time to get used to the controls, it got me thinking about adding some automation to the power drawbar. When you rotated the mounting plate, it looked like there was enough room in there for a couple hall sensors. Output to a micro-controller which drives one or more solenoids... see where I'm going with this?
I suggest a foam rubber mill vise! 🙃
You gotta love how changing a tool now sounds like an F1 pitstop (or nascar, or indiecar, or any motorsport - just being inclusive for everyone!)!!!
With a noise like that I could just sit there all day changing tools just for the sound!!!! I'd be a crap machinist!
I've had a few regulators go out as well but I noticed that it possibly was due to the size of the tank and lines post the regulator. i.e. I run the main tank from the compressor at 150PSI then regulate that down to ~80PSI and use my shop plumbing as well as a pancake tank for a lower pressure reservoir. If the main tank pressure drops faster than the 80PSI lines due to a compressor leaking it tended to eventually cause the regulator to fail possibly due to the back pressure placed on it over a period of time. Hope it is not the CA air compressor as I was thinking of replacing my present compressor with a CA Air tools model. Please let us know if you learn anything more.
It's the CAT 2hp 10 gallon model. This appears to be a known issue. See my previous video.
Watching this channel I've realized that I'm going to have to live vicariously through James and other UA-camrs because I could never afford all this stuff.
If you want to do small work as a hobbyist, it's possible to do quite a bit without spending a ton of money. It's also possible to spend lots and lots of money if you want. :)
@@Clough42 Dreaming of new toys is the commonality that connects all home/hobby machinists.
Btw, you may need to radius the bracket to make room for the quill auto feed crank.
Yup. I noticed that.
James, I have one of these that I got a while back, but have never gotten around to installing. Main concern was noise, the shop is directly below our bedroom and certainly don't want to wake the wife on those late nights! Approximately how loud would you say this is? Any common shop tools you'd compare it to volume wise?
As an aside, I have a HF McGraw 175pso 21 gallon compressor that I'm pretty happy with. It's not too loud and wasn't too expensive. Was a nice middle ground between price/volume
Like an impact spinning off a loose lugnut db level.
It sounds very much like an air impact. It's not quiet. Honestly, that surprised me a little, mostly because I just hadn't thought about it. A muffler (more than the little diffuser that came with it) might help, but the impact hammers are still going to clatter.
I wired a motor started in with my shop lights and connected my old noisy 80 gallon air compressor. Now the compressor can only run while I'm there working and neither the neighbors nor the wife will be awakened at 3 AM.
I disassembled my California compressor regulator, cleaned, lubricated and reassembled. Seemed to work better.
Yeah, that's what I did previously as well, and it's leaking again, a few weeks later.
@@Clough42 Sorry to hear that. I haven't used mine very much so that may be the difference.
What happens when you need to rotate the head of the mill? Looks like the air hose could do with being longer/flexible
I'll be replacing that tube. I totally didn't think about that until I saw it while editing.
werther super silent love it but i do believe it is more than 2 hp