As a teenager and an owner of a brand new Jupiter 8 in 1983 I can tell this, when I came home from work, opened my door and saw that gorgeous Jupiter 8 waiting for me to switch it on I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. It as an inspirational keyboard, the Ferrari of synths and nothing will ever replace it. 😎
Stumbled across this and now subscribed. As someone who has been using synths since the mid 70’s I agree 100% with what you are saying here. I am also much more focused on composition today and getting into detailed sound design gets in the way. What I look for now are tools that accelerate the process of composition.
I'm telling you, man... you're BRAVE, rational, down to earth, objective and solid. Most youtubers can't even have two of these together, think of Dr.Mix and the like. I'm a synth fan since the early 90s and yes... most of my acquaintances get crazy about overhyped synths and pay an absurd amount of money for very old machines they can't even program or configure. I'm a hardware person anyway, engineer and designer. Count me in your fan club. Far greetings from Chile, Southamerica.
I'm not always going to say things that everyone will like. I understand that if I wanted my channel to be more popular, I should sound like a used car salesman and tell people that everything is amazing. Keep a lookout for my Halloween episode. It's just for fun, but some people may be upset. Thank you for your support, it is appreciated.
The D-50 and the Wavestation are pure gold for someone who is more focused on composing and less on playing around with synths. I would add the Roland JV-880 / 1080 and you’re good to go. At least these are the 3 synths (besides the Alpha Juno) I use on every song I make.
That D50 keybed is surprisingly nice. And I also use mine to control a JV-1080, so evidently I completely support this statement. And unlike the synths in this video, used Wavestations are still affordable
@@JeffreyScottPetro I also agree, but I'd point out that all three of these instruments have excellent software emulations (at least the XV-5080 for the JV, which is basically the same thing). When I buy a hardware instrument, I try to get something unique that doesn't duplicate what's already on my computer or iPad.
You’re missing a lot here. Vintage synths and drum machines are a good investment aside from sounding amazing. For example I purchased a mint Linndrum in 2015 for $1400 and it’s now worth over 6k. Nine out of ten new synths will only decline in value over time. Also most vintage synths are made with far superior craftsmanship than new synths coming out of China. All the new moog stuff is coming out of China. Most of the new roland stuff is made out of plastic. In the late 90’s most companies stopped releasing schematics and therefore most new synths are also not easily serviced if there’s a problem. Where a Juno 106 or a minimoog will ALWAYS be serviceable.
Just my two cents... if resale value is your deciding factor for buying a synth, you're kinda missing the point. Especially if you're passing up a synth that you like more but won't buy because it "won't hold its value".
I don’t think very many people buy synths just because of its resale value. There are much faster ways to make a return on your money. But you are absolutely right.
This is a really good and justified list of the Synth-Lore overhyped units. The exception is the MINI MOOG at number 6. The car equivalent is a classic Corvette Corvette. The architecture and signal flow is outstanding and still is extremely sexy.
Did want to add a couple more things. I agree with your list. I too owned several older vintage ones in the day (Juno 60 twice, Juno 106 twice, OB-xa, OB-8 twice, Jupiter 6 twice, SH-01, DX7 three times, etc…. Point is, except for the DX7, Korg M1, D50 & SH-01, they all had to head to the repair shop at least once! Got rid of them all but kept the DX7 & went to rack versions of the others. Then I fell in love with Arturia and found that as the most viable way to get what I wanted. Check out G-Force Oberheim suite… wow!! Thanks again for your list & keep them coming! 😊
Very good comment on various synthesizers, congrats. :-) I am a person who was in his early 20ies when the first affordable synthesizers became available. Apart from my Rhodes Mark I piano I owned only three originals (plus some periphery): a Crumar Multiman S, a Roland Jupiter-4 and a Roland SH-1. With these I have been able to write and record beautiful songs (on tape). I still own the SH-1 which is about 45 years old now, of course it requires some maintenance but I would not sell it because I love it so much and it is very rare. When I sold my Jupiter-4 a couple of years ago, which was still fully functional at that time, I did so because I felt I had heard it all of what the synthesizer was capable of, even though it sounded richer than the Jupiter-8 which I could not afford at those early days but of course would have liked to own. For the sum I obtained from the sale I purchased a (physical) Hammond organ (SK2) in order to be able to write songs in the style of Deep Purple. Nowadays I am using a plethora of software synth of all kinds, mostly and preferably the physically modelled re-makes of their precursors, avoiding the sampled ones. And I am completely satisfied with this option. Owning the originals may on one hand be costly if you can acquire one and on the other hand you can count the time when there will arise some electrical or mechanical malfunction. I guess in the end it is not worth it. (/from Germany)
2 303s don't even sound alike 😂 I would happily put a large pile of cash on 99.99% of synth enthusiasts not being able tell the difference between a HW 303 and the Roland Cloud VST in a mix, let alone your average punter. @@TheBroDotTV
Stumbled on your channel from the algorithm and I found this list really interesting. It also gave great comfort to someone who is producing in the box too! You also remind me a lot of Phill Spencer from Xbox 👍
Couldn't agree more. I have a Shruthi-1 with SMR-4MKII filter. This synth can emulate any MOOG, or Roland sound, plus digital waveforms, for a well rounded synth. Only payed 200.00 dollars for this synth, plus forty bucks shipping, it is brand new. I have already created many patch's and I am thinking of purchasing an additional one with a different flavor filter. I might even purchase a Michigan Synth Works XENA Synth, they are only $435.00 out the door. Cheers!
@@JeffreyScottPetro Old design, incredible sounding mono synth for the money. You can order different types of filters for the Shruthi-1, and Ambika synths, like the SMR-4 filter, a Polivoks filter, a 4PM filter, and a Dual SVF filter design. The (Ambika synth), same heritage as the Shruthi-1 is a polyphonic version, with six voice cards. Old designs really with very modern applications. Check them out my friend, pretty nice value in my humble opinion. Cheers!
Just because it has the same filter doesn’t mean it sounds the same. My Pro One sounds way different than my other CEM based synths including the Prophet 5. But other than that the shruthi is cool synth.
The SH-101/Juno 106 were great for me from a learning standpoint, but honestly? My Minilogue ticks most of those boxes. Most of my synths can and are emulated just as well in software, but I do really enjoy playing with them cost-effectiveness be damned. The big Casios (VZ and CZ) are just shockingly fun to play with even though, as digital synths, software can do the job just fine.
It IS fun to play the real instruments. Some I have, some others, I can only imagine (with the help of my computer and my Fantom 8). It's good to be playing keyboards in 2024.
"I can understand why it costs more than a Ford Pinto". 😂😂😂😂 ROFL! I love it! FINALLY, someone who speaks my language! I think I'm in love. 😊 This is such a practical video. And you didn't even mention the tuning instabilities of the Memorymoog. I used an Xpander at a studio once. It was OK, but I actually thought it was pretty limited. A bandmate had a Prophet 5. I hated that screechy thing. Many of the synths on this list I have Arturia versions of, and I rarely use them. And don't even get me started on Modular. I'm a songwriter. I don't have time to waste noodling around on something like that. And that's all I ever hear people do on those things on social media: noodle. Not one catchy melody ever comes out of what I hear online. Thanks for being a voice of reason.
I'm sure like many here, this list caught me completely by surprise. I suspect it's more to do with the eye watering asking prices they command today. It seems to be more like owning an antique than having an instrument you'd use everyday.
A very respectful but honest assessment of some vintage classics, you get so much more reliability, flexibility and potential in modern synths available today...sorry if that upsets the old school fetishists
Tons of software and hardware editing panel options available for the Matrix 1000. Kiwi Technics makes a mod that allows editing of ALL patches, among other improvements. I have the 1000 and the 6R and they're effectively the same once you get a Sysex or hardware editor going (the menu diving required on the 6R front panel is so obtuse that an editing panel is still very much your best option). Bob Grieb also makes a firmware update for each (a simple EPROM swap) that eliminates the MIDI latching and latency issues.
I agree with almost all of this, but... I absolutely LOVE the sound of the Prophet 5. I love the interface/workflow. I love the limitations. I learned synths on a rev.2 back in 1980 so I recognize the emotional tie. I do NOT love it enough to pay for one and use VSTs instead. However, IF Behringer pull off a decent clone...
Ok. I did get a bit “butt hurt” by your choices but I see your point. The legendary status attached to these originals far outweighs their usefulness against more flexible, more reliable stuff developed later with the benefit of 40+ years of technological advancement. Obvious really. And I’m on board, I have Hydrasynth which I know is more capable than a CS-80, and a System 8 for all things ancient and Roland. Why do I still crave the old stuff though? I’d love to see a 21st century version of this list. My #1? Everything Nord…
Prophet 5 is amazing, but today I would go with the Take 5. I have both and they can sound almost identical but I prefer the T5, because it has the features the Prophet is missing like Stereo, SubOSC, 2 Lfos, Mod Matrix, Overdrive, Panning ( you have Voice Spread as a Mod Source, very cool). I don’t even miss the 61 Keys because of the clever octave split. The only stuff the T5 is missing is the amazing Poly Unison, but the stereo stuff alone makes the T5 sound more appealing.
Wow! Thanks for being up front about this despite all the current vintage hype. I came up in 80s as well and saw all of these synths come and go. Of course “synth lore” is a thing, which is why I own a Prophet 5 rev4, but my Uh-he plug-in sounds just as good and has more capabilities.
Loved this video! I agree with all your points, and also believe that they extend to software emulations of the synths on your list; 99% of the time, I end up using general "all-around" softsynths (like Surge XT and Vital, or even stock DAW synths), rather than reach for a Juno or CS-80-emulating plugin. Because their GUIs are minimalistic and don't simulate a hardware synth panel, it's easier and faster for me to dial in the sound that I want. I do find modular synth sofware super fun, though! Would you make a video comparing the "big leagues" of synth emulation (G-Force, IK Multimedia, Arturia, Cherry Audio, Softube etc.)? I'm especially curious to know what you think about Syntronik, since it's a ROMpler that plays round-robin samples from the original hardware, rather than a "regular" synth plugin.
I agree with most of the list. But Juno 106? Come on. Thin? 😅 I got mine since end of 90th (yes, now I have to replace the chips) and most of the time I had to dial it back in a mix as it's too powerful. The transient and bass pressure is huge. And the harmonics it has in higher frequencies always cuts through the mix, no matter what you do with it. The filter is awesome, especially when mistreated for experimentation. A kind of is own. There are some VST emulations but they all are very undefined, weak and flat in comparison - even Softube's version. Nymphes is a great sounding hardware alternative but it doesn't make the character of the 106 redundant. Which monitor speakers are you listening on? Cheers.
Hi, this may be more of a ‘complex’ list to make but…what would be cool is if someone would make a list of the best current keyboards (less than 15 yrs old) that emulates the older vintage ones! I know Behringer has been busy with that & Aturia makes great soft synth versions but if I wanted a reasonably priced ‘clone’ version of a Juno 106 or Jupiter 8 or CS-80 or minimoog? That would be cool to have as a reference. Just an FYI….
Thanks for the suggestion. I have been working a few months on a video that may offer a less expensive option to the Jupiter 8. I hope to have it done by the summer.
Two synth I have had that I'd add... Teisco 60f, single oscillator with a week 12db filter. I put a 2:1 compressor between the filter and VCF which helped to beef it up a bit but it was still not very good. It is build like a tank! But the sliders are prone to dirt ingress, So, if you buy one, check the sliders first and keep it covered when not in use. The other is a rare animal, syntrack by Spectral Audio. A one trick pony only any good for bass. One good thing about it is that the few controls it has all recieve//send midi. It has an 18db low pass filter that sounds reather thin (I would put that down to the LM13700 used in the filters) I have seen both on eBay/Reverb going for silly prices. Personally, I would not want to pay more that £250 for each of them.
I can’t be mad about your #1 pic, but purely for sound design it’s so fascinating like you said. So far the only semi-modular gear I have is the Behringer Neutron and that box packs a massive punch for the price. My pipe dream is to build a stage rack full of modular synths that I can wheel around to gigs and control with a master keyboard like a Fantom, or even a controller like the Keylab. Redundant? Yes. Exciting? Also yes. Lol
I was just talking about this with a friend the other night. It’s really about price-to-performance ratio. I paid $300 for my Matrix 1000 (24 years ago) and that was a great deal. Totally worth it. Would I pay $600 or more for one? Absolutely not. As you said, for the price they fetch today, you could get something much more useful. The CS-80 is heavy, unreliable, and costs more than many luxury cars…it would possibly be more practical to own if it wasn’t for the over-inflated price. There is nothing about it that can justify a price tag that huge. I already felt that way when they were going for $10k…and that was long long ago! Ditto the Jupiter 8. It’s a lovely synth, sits in a mix nicely, but it absolutely does not warrant the gigantic asking price. There are plenty of ways to get close to that sound without selling a kidney. Really that’s the deal with most of the things on your list - they’re legendary, have been used on lots of records, but the hype has outstripped their usefulness. As the price goes up and up, they become less and less appealing. I still consider the Minimoog the king of synths, but its incredibly limited feature set is not worth the many thousands they fetch nowadays. I paid $3500 for mine, still the most expensive instrument I own, and I used to take it to all my gigs…it sure does look cool sitting up there, but it’s just not worth the risk anymore since they have only gone up in value. I use a Behringer D now onstage and no one has ever complained about the sound being inferior… I don’t really get why people are so nuts over the Juno-106. The Juno-6/60 sounds better imho although it’s missing a few features. Back in the late 90s my friend bought a Juno-6 for a few hundred bucks and I thought it was “just ok”…I was an analog junkie and thought it sounded thin. Which, in a way, it does. He willed it to me and it’s been a staple in my studio since he passed in 2020. I’ve grown to love the Juno sound…it’s nothing fancy , very predictable, but just works in a mix so well. Hard to make a Juno sound bad. But I would never buy one for what they go for today!
Same. I bought one back in the 90s for, I believe, $240 or so. That was a great purchase at the time. I remember the salesman saying, "Well, if you want something low priced, we have a bunch of these for sale. They're not bad."
Agree with the most, except for one knob per function. Knobs are not only for learning, knobs are for realtime control while playing. That's where the difference between playing piano keys connected to a sound module vs playing the actual synth lies. Just like using different playing techniques and switching them on the fly with a continuously expressive acoustic instrument like a flute or a violin (something a piano practically lacks), knobs are used to re-shape the sound as you play - not to set them and forget them.
Totally agree with your list. I have owned all that you have listed, still own some of them. love the sound of the memorymoog, had 2 of them, unreliable as their decade past reputation dictates, loved my CS80... im a true keys player and this it the best live performance synth I've owned, sold it while it was still mint and working perfectly and as such, paid off half of my mortgage :) (not kidding!). A synth I still have that I would add to the list is my Yamaha DX1, its an uber rare flagship synth from 1983 and very cool looking, great keybed etc.. BUT its nothing more that 2 DX7's in one box and sound thin and dated like all DX's do. It's my next to get sold, that will almost pay off the rest of my mortgage! lol. The synth I think is the most overrated is the minimoog, it's really not that special, doesn't even have an LFO. Its a collectors synth today. Best modern synths I have today are my MatrixBrute, PolyBrute, Schmidt Eightvoice. The Schmidt though is not worth the $20k-ish price tag, its too expensive IMHO, I got mine in a trade/deal otherwise I wound never have bought one outright. I'm a composer, recording artist and performing artist, not a collector, if a synth here isn't getting used for a long time, it gets sold or traded. It was great to hear you state that you are a composer too! Great video, thanks for posting it!
I've talked about it quite a bit in some episodes with specs and my opinion, and it will be in a Music Gear Market episode pretty soon. I've always liked it, and at one time I wanted one. I got to play it at the 2002 NAMM show. It's deep, with more controls than the Millenium Falcon. The only issue "I've heard" of is some of the chips failing, and they are proprietary, so possibly very hard to replace.
Hi Jeff, greetings from Liverpool UK!! As a very long standing synth lover and player I found this video incredibly interesting indeed!! Being as you mentioned almost all the classics here, just wondering which synths you wouldn't deem overhyped?? Arp Odyssey, Oberheim OBXa, Alesis Andromeda, Moog Polymoog, Korg M1, PPG Wave, Korg Polysix, Roland Jupiter 4, Access Virus, Roland SH101, SCI Pro One and Roland Juno 60 weren't mentioned, so I'm guessing it might be those?? Just have to say that I owned a Yamaha DX7 briefly around 1989 and really wasn't impressed at all, after dreaming of owning one for so long, wow, what an anti-climax!! I sold it a few months later and bought a Roland D50 which was much more in line with what I believed a good synth should be!!
Hi Andre... birthplace of the Beatles, that's awesome: I would say the M1, DX7, D-50, and Wavestation, are not overhyped. They're also relatively affordable for older keyboards. I see you are not a fan of the DX7. I'm a fanboy of the DX7, but I respect your opinion, we all have our favorites. I love the D-50 too, used to have two D-550's. I need to get the one I still have fixed. Appreciate the comment.
I have played one before, and it was a very temperamental beast, with a few noticeable things wrong with it. It was a lot of fun to play and learn, but its feature set is not attractive enough to make it essential, and the sound is just unusual enough to where it's not really great for bread and butter sounds either. If it was affordable, it would make a great side piece. But it's not, so it isn't. Cool piece of history though, and great sound.
No argument from me on your picks as there is something different for everyone. Ask 100 people for this list and you will get 100 different lists. My only comment really is... it is pronounced Moog as in rhyming with Rogue. Dave Luce (from Moog) taught me that in Buffalo NY. Great and interesting video!
- Some people are into nostalgia, and collect synths (and don't mind maintaining them - that's all part of the "fun"), just as some people are into collecting vintage cars which have little modern practicality. What gear nut in a general sense has more gear than they actually need? Hold up your hand if you're not guilty of that syndrome. Rarity itself makes for collectability, regardless of other considerations. - I'm no vintage synth collector, but I have owned until recently a Korg 01/W fd, which I bought beat up, and fully restored. That one is easy to work on, and the parts are cheap, and relatively available. The main takeaway for me was the Yamaha-supplied synth-action keybed in that thing, which I LOVED, and still do. I understand that Korg used that keybed on the M1 through the Oasys, except for of course the 88-key weighted models. If an action is not inviting, who wants to play it? And that one is a "goldilocks" action, which should please anyone. It morphed from the FS to the now FSX version - and this is just a guess - due to the elimination of lead in the weights in the keys, due to "environmental compliance" reasons. It is _supposed_ to be (according to others - I haven't played the latest variant) essentially identical in feel to the former version. - Most overhyped (by far) current modern synth: Montage M. I wonder how many of those things Yamaha has given away to UA-camrs in exchange for glowing reviews opposed to _actually selling them_ as part of their marketing-hype barrage. I for one didn't bite - HARD pass. Exasperating WAY-OVERPRICED child's toy. It's very flashy (look at all those pretty lights!) and snazzy and high-tech looking...which is not a coincidence on Yamaha's part...but it doesn't do much past the "shine wears off the new Corvette" stage to justify its high price. The only real thing going for it is the keybed, which is the best out there. (But - to repeat - you can get essentially that keybed on an M1, and of course other early Yamaha synths like the DX7 up through the Motif.) All those sliders on the Montage are for _undoing_ goofy stuff, as opposed to _doing_ sane, grownup stuff. Weee! I got me a new Corvette! Year later...would you like to buy a Montage M?...real cheap? - Way, WAY better: Something with the aforementioned Yamaha keybed in a MUCH lower-priced and much simpler/easier to get around/understand package. I own two used Korg Triton Pro's - for the keybed - and several soft synths. If you need a good piano for gigging, I'd suggest the excellent Pianoteq (VERY small in resources modeled piano) in a small inexpensive laptop, or maybe for studio work, one of the very impressive (but VERY large - sample-wise) Production Voices soft pianos in a powerful PC. It doesn't come much better than that brand - and their offerings are relatively inexpensive. You need a Yamaha CX7? - GET THAT ONE by PV - as opposed to being lured in by the flashy Montage. Your wallet - and your common sense - will thank you. Bad news: that $4,000 new modern synth isn't going to write that Top Ten hit for you - that takes something called creativity. It takes a good song, with a good singer singing it. Listen to a great song - for example Annie Lennox's "No More I Love You's" with its lovely _judicious_ plain vanilla Juno/Jupiter synth pad playing in the background. The great song/singer did most of the work - the synth was just a small part of the whole. Put down your overpriced/overhyped toys and direct the funds towards something else.
I'm a hobbyist so I have nothing really to add here, just want to say I'm really glad my first experience with synthesis was an ARP 2600 owned by the school I attended. It lived in the music lab and was ignored by all except a handful of nerds who took the electronic music class. It required me to understand what I was doing to get anything out of it, and invited experimentation. And the sounds it makes are very musical and lovely. I can't imagine owning one though. Maybe if they were a few hundred dollars, for old times sake I'd love to have one to goof off with. What I really need is to find another music lab that has one!
Thank you. Sure been sick of hearing people amp up the myths about these synths. I have been performing on keyboards since the mid 1960s. Organ was first, then piano and then synths. So I have lived through all the years of keyed instruments. Acoustic piano is my favorite:) and I perform on stage as a solo pianist. I have owned synths I bought new from the 1980s on, lots of them, lots of digital pianos, samplers, groove boxes, drum machines, drum pads, and software stuff too. I have always been a hardware person, dabbled in the software synths but soon hated it. I lost my vintage studio back in 2008, with all those 80s and 90s synths, in a divorce. Been building a new studio ever since and last year finally finished it. Did I go back and try and buy used analog and digital gear? NO!!!! No way am I buying that old undependable stuff that is easily duplicated today (even the same synths don't sound the same when old). I don't compose for a single synth, I orchestrate, so the isolated sound of a synth is rarely heard on my albums. While there remain many cheap synths that sound horrible, most synths with a little research will be a welcome addition to a studio. So, the new 100% hardware studio is all newer gear, basically chose analog (low voice count) for soloing, and digitals poly for chording and free play without limits. The newer synths are so much more better than that old stuff I used to have, more creative, more dependable, and with good preamps and sound sources better sounding. AND I finally have a digital piano I am happy with after all these years! 1) Kurzweil VAST / FM / KVA / Keymap synth. Been wanting to try this synth for 30 years. 2) Roland RD-2000 for the V-Piano. 3) Roland Fantom (current) for launching clips, and deep sound design. 4) Korg Minilogue and MinilogueXD for solo play and recording to a sampler. 5) Arturia MicroBrute. Got the last one before out of production. 6) Roland Gaia and Gaia2. Two highly creative, high voice count synths that are lighting fast to sound design on. 7) Roland JunoDS. Just for the vocoder and layering. The 8 measure pattern sequencer is okay too. 8) All the Roland Boutiques that have full surface controls. 9) Korg Electribe2. Excellent samples and good for a few percussion additions. 10) 1010Music Black Box sampler. The best sounding sampler in the world. Small and lighting fast to get the job done. 11) Korg Krome. For adding textures from many MIDI channels. 12) Yamaha MX49. Used mostly as a controller. 13) Yamaha RefaceDX. To learn FM sound design.
I got myself a Jupiter 8, Juno 106 and JX-3P in a box with the System 8, I hope these will last me longer than their Analog versions. Still got heaps of control, but hopefully none of the analog issues. 🤞 Cool video and list!
I’m very happy having a Minifreak :) small and full of features and sounds. I also own a Moog Sub 37, bargain when it came out! I paid 1400 British pounds
I appreciate your comments about the dx7 at the end. I think everyone has always known it as the 80s pop balad piano synth that's inpossible to prgram so when they get it's with an understanding of its limitations. Regardless, it is a fantastic machine for many reasons. I've recommended it to people purely as a midi controller because the keybed alone makes it worth the price
Thanks for the question. On person that commented suggested that it can be a price compared to utility ratio evaluation, and I think there is merit to that suggestion. The answer to your question could be yes to some degree, but this video is not just about price, it's more about the halos that follow the gear around. I have another video that is coming up in a month or two that specifically evaluates on price. I think some of the gear here gets hit a second time, and there is other ancillary studio gear, not just electronic instruments. Thanks for the comment.
I was with you all the way except for the Prophet 5. That keyboard is pure magic like no other. Agree with all your other choices as I've owned many of them (minimoog, Matrix 12, Juno, etc).
I own a small eurorack ensemble. For me, it's simply a lot of nostalgia, because i grew up in the 70ies and 80ies with Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze (Berlin School stuff). And to be honest, in a practical point of view, it makes no sense. But it's FUN.
Most sensible synth video that I've seen on UA-cam in a long time--maybe ever. If you have a PC or iPad, than you have far more sonic resources than any of these will give you for less money. Old Korgs like the Mono/Poly, MS-20 and MicroKorg and anything that ARP ever made also belong on this list. I'd add the EMS Synthi A/AKS/VCS3 too. Analog snobs are like Rolex watch collectors. They enjot the rareity, cost and exclusivity of their items. But they don't perform their basic function any better than equivalents that cost a tiny fraction as much--and often with more utility and functions. I got my first Moog in the 70's and I have zero desire to go back to that era.
Sorry, but the MS-20 doesn't. None of the emulations even come close to the hardware for that one. Own the hardware and can compare it. Not even the hardware Behringer K2 sounds like the original! Just listen to Starsky Carr which does very good comparisons! The Prophet 5, Mini Moog, Pro 1. Juno 106, Jupiter 8 are almost perfectly emulated in software though.
@Magnus_Loov Could be. I've never owned an MS-20 and always used emulation, including the Kronos. Idoi know that they're respected for the8r raw, dirty sound, so that might be hard to get right. On the whole, though, VSTs continue to improve and that's definitely where I see the trend going.
I applaud you for saying it. I wouldn't want to own an actual CS80. I've seen what's inside of there and have heard how fragile beasties they are. I'm happy with the emulation of it from Cherry Audio and the version I built in PureData. Took me a month and lots of study and poring over the manual and any technical docs I could find. The filter envelope was a revelation and I've generalized that approach when making synths in software. I learned so much from the CS80. Also, absolutely adore the Jupiter 8 and TAL makes a loving recreation in the TAL J-8. One of my favorites. Also, the SQ8L (Ensoniq SQ80) is an old version, but sounds great. I've got a big collections of the classics in software. And that's good, because I don't have the budget for anything else than the software versions, many of them free. There's also Osiris, an emulation of the Access Virus B and C. They emulated the DSP chip and Osiris uses the (end user supplied) ROMs from the Virus. I have had the opportunity to play a couple of Dave Smith instruments and they were lovely. So expressive and immediate, but again, unobtanium for my budget. Inspiration for when I'm doing sound design and creating expressive patches with lots of dimensions And the modular -- whoo what a money sink they could be. Unless your wife builds a book case of modules for a few hundred dollars. Lots of fun and enjoyment and pride for her to have made an instrument like that. But most of the practical modular stuff I use is VCV as a CLAP plugin in my DAW. Unlimited modules, essentially free. I love sound design, I love composing and studying classic synths has taught me a lot. But I'll save my money. Maybe a Korg WaveState. That's something in reach. Or a UB-Xa for that polyphonic aftertouch keyboard and classic Oberheim sound. Those filters! and multi-timbrality, like the Jupiter and the CS-80. So that's where SurgeXT gets that idea, from all the classic powerhouses of yesteryear, wink wink.
You pronounce Moog the way I pronounced Moog before I was browbeaten by a cadre of remote synth scholars on the internet, ah the memories of the before times are delicious in such weird ways. Juno 106 was the first synth on my mind, glad to see it in the winner's circle.
Funny that you mentioned the Memorymoog. I bought mine at the tender age of 18 in late '82. I was so hyped... but broke. It was truly a bittersweet experience. When it stayed in tune, it was solid & awesome...that became less & less frequent however. I subsequently became very acquainted with the voice deactivation function on the keypad. Anyway, sold it within months and moved on to a JP-6 & JX-3P (my first ever MIDI pairing...and still cheaper than a JP-8).
I was in a trip-hop band in the 1990s, and we were blown away by how good the SH-101 sounded in our tracks, so you can imagine how excited we were when I found a Juno 6 for £250 and brought it in. We were all really disappointed at how thin it sounded. As for modular…I don’t know, I think it’s for people who enjoy giving themselves IQ tests? It’s like the plot of Lord of The Rings, but in synth form!
Cool video! Yeah, I lusted after ALL those on the list, back in the day. I’ll be 60 next year. 😂 The oldest synth I have is the Korg DW-6000 and it still works great! Maybe you could do a list of some of the modern synths or software that could potentially replace these. Thanks!
This was fun. I was strapped in for no reason it seems. I can't find any fault in your list, and I agree that you could have made a list of 31 overhyped synths, and if you really wanted to, you could extend that to a much higher number by including synths being released today. I especially agree with your views on modular systems, and I say that as a sound designer and musician of more years than I'd care to admit. One point to make here is the "nostalgia effect" that many synth buyers with a little too much extra cash fall victim to, which is an altogether different thing than the desire for analog sounding or perhaps true analog vintage synths, and not quite the same as GAS. Moog and other classic synth manufacturers have done quite well for themselves capitalizing on our collective nostalgia in the past decade or two. My first synth was a Roland Alpha Juno, which I spent countless hours playing in the late 80s. I loved that synth at the time, and I still miss it, nostalgically, but I'm not going to buy one today. I can replicate all of it easily with my more modern synths. On the other hand, some people are collectors. They don't typically play the synths they own. They see these vintage synths as investments to resell, or as gear to brag about owning or having once owned. And this brings me to the point why I wanted to write this comment. None of these vintage synths or any of today's synths will make anyone a better musician. They won't magically improve your tracks. Besides, good musicians can make music with almost any piece of kit, new or old. I'm almost done. LOL. Sorry for the long comment. I have three hardware Wavestations (2 EXs and 1 A/D) that I will never sell for any reason. They have all needed repair over the past 30 years -- screens, power supplies, a broken key. But to me they are priceless and still sound amazing today, and I'm quite comfortable editing them without software. In fact, I can't bear using a computer to make music or do sound design. That's a rant for another day. Glad I found your channel. :)
Well done, excellent presentation. In the last 4/5 years, I have found soft synths have really come into their own. For example, my Korg M1 never sounded as good as the soft synth version by Korg!
Which of course is not surprising since they're entirely digital inside, and Korg can thus write a perfect emulation, with improvements like polyphony.
Liked and subscribed. Will take a look at other videos. Any thoughts on Osmose? Tried one. Liked it. About 7% of presets are to die for. Quite a few are utter shite. Wouldn't like or know how to program one, took a look at that, nah...
Great video! I agree, you can buy these classics in software for a fraction of the price. Yes the hardware may or may not sound better but software synths today offer very high value and sound quality.
WOW !! Finally somebody who dares to speak out about the analog myth. I myself, and it's no bragging, have owned all synths you mention in this video except for the CS80 back in the 80's. I did sell them all and never regret it. As you state: many people buy their Juno, just to sell it again after some months because they wake up from the analog myth dream. Some people start argueing that analog synths sound 'warmer' Well, the day they show me a by AES/EBU accepted and calibrated measuring device that has a scale from cold to warm, I'm ready to revise my knowledge... And as you conclude: It's all about what music you make, not about the gear you have. Sadly, only few people understand that.
I’ve been using, buying, and selling synths since the late 80s. I consider myself a recovered analog purist. I could not agree with you more. Every choice you made here was well warranted. ESP the modular synth placement. I look at modular as more of a tool for learning than music making. It can be done much cheaper in software and it does look cool, but that’s about it.
Yeah. I'm not winning a lot of hearts, but what I'm saying is truly how I feel. My friends tell me I should do what all the other youtubers do, say everything is amazing, everything is worth the price, and everyone should buy it all. I refuse to be a used car salesman. I've turned down sponsorship deals because I didn't believe in the product. I appreciate your comment, John.
As much as I love some of these synths on the list, I totally get your argument and take no offense whatsoever, in fact i respect it and see you point of view. Thank you for your honest opinion 🙏
Moog is pronounced with a long "o" vowel, not "oo" like with a moo cow. It's 'moog" like "moan". Bob Moog used to mention how people didn't know how to pronounce his name. It's German, and was originally spelled Mohg.
Actually, there is no exact English equivalent pronunciation to Moog in German. The rhyme to "Vogue" (another comment) isn't it! The "straight and open ending" long/double o vowel in German is just not present in English. English does always bend the o/oo to something else... 🥴
In the late 90s and early 2000s I paid what would be today considered bargain prices for all these synths but that put a big dent in my pocketbook at the time ( yes I had a working CS 80) and, with the exception of the Xpander ( the mutimode filter, lfo and envelope options make it still useful today imo) I agree with this generally- Had a linntronics memorymoog as well-they are all gone- do not miss them . Interestingly, I do miss my polyevolver.. BTW as Bob said "it's Moog as in Rogue"
Thanks, and I know about Bob's name. Part of a European upbringing. I often say Gah-rage and not Ger-rage and a bunch of other words, even after all these years. Some folks lost their mind in the comments. At least you were polite. Appreciate the comment.
Interesting list! It's a little controversial, but that's a good starting point for conversation. I would offer two suggestions: 1) I believe that the real #1 most hyped synth should be the TB-303. It has a unique tone, but it's a one-trick-pony and plenty of other instruments can cover its territory. 2) Consider changing the name to Overhyped Synthesizers because the Xpander and Modular are not "keyboards." (That also works for the TB-303!) Take care!
My first synth as a kid was a Yamaha DX21 and boy was that a mistake...I didn't know what FM synthesis was and this synth proved to be a learning experience! I yearned for more than 4ops, and so years later, I had the money to get a used DX7 FDII. Now *THAT'S* a synth! I had that for years and played that a lot. 6 ops opened up a completely new world of FM synthesis! To get my feet wet into subtractive analog synthesis, I purchased a Deepmind 12 a few years ago. After cutting my teeth on FM synthesis, I never realized how easy subtractive synsthesis is! So I started getting addicted to the Korg Volca systems...what a fun bunch of synths! And don't get me started on that NTS-1!
Hey Jeff, I enjoyed watching the countdown. To your point, pretty much any hardware synth can be replicated "better than analog" these days. I think the broader question is "do we even need hardware synths anymore, especially analog synths?" Anthony Marinelli's channel has a great spot with a well-known synth designer who basically says "all keyboards are overhyped these days, and digital emulations are more analog than even analog synths." I have an OB-X8. I love that I own it. But it's the "lore" that keeps me from selling it. When I want an Oberheim sound in a mix, I pull up Diva, Dune 3, Arturia Analog Lab or Omnisphere and dial in a Oberheim sound while the real Oberheim sits on the keyboard stand with a cover over top of it. Truth!
Love this! I think you are spot on. Some comments are saying the DX7 which I disagree with & your right, it's probably the only classic synth you can still buy for reasonable money, its sound architecture is completely different from the old Analogs. A poor interface & overused presets give it a poor reputation to what I think is a very interesting synthesiser.
Well, there you go. I was waiting for your last comment, "Im a composer', and then it all fell into place. As a guy playing in a cover band, I like to have the "real thing" on stage. Not some software gimmick. As for your comments about keyboards breaking down, they all break down, pure and simple! Indeed, I also think antique synths are way overpriced and even those sold by professional musicians are"'stupidily" priced. But, so are old cars, bsseball cards, stamps and coins. But, an interesting list, just the same.
@@JeffreyScottPetro I would certainly be curious to know what keyboards you have in your collection. Have not a chance to mess with any "software" keyboards. And, I would be interested in some of your compositions, too.
Of course anything could be somewhat replicated with software but what hardware mono and poly synths do you recommend for people that prefer hardware ?
I recommend you try a bunch and buy what you like. What I like, may not be what you like. Folks, sometimes ask me if I like Synth A and Synth B, and I give them my opinion. In several of my episodes I have specifically stated that I'm not recommending any specific product. I give my opinion and other info, and it's up to the viewer to decide. I've been offered sponsorship for the channel, and I've turned it down, because I didn't believe in the product. If a company with a product I love offers me a sponsorship deal, I'll accept it, but that hasn't happened yet. Thanks for your comment.
You certainly have not wasted my time! And I agree with most of what you said - especially about the DX7 and the D50. But I have just finished recapping my latest acquisition: the fabulous DW8000. And I must say that aside from the sound it feels wonderful to play on that instrument. Same goes for my DX which I bought in 1984 for an obscene amount of money. Or the D50. I know it's pure nostalgia. And for the same reason I would just love to play on the CS80. What a feeling...
I feel like I dodged a bullet by not basing my studio around analog synths. Nothing against them, but i found there are so many good digital options that can do much more for the money. I still plan on trying out the pro-800 tho.
The difference is really prominent when you are physically in front of the instrument, hearing it in the room. Once we mix this stuff together, the magic is EQ'ed out. 😄
Interesting list. I have two questions. The Roland Juno-60 is even more expensive than the 106 so why not the Juno-60 on the list? I own a Juno-60 myself and I love it. I still think it is over priced though. The second question: I found a Casio VZ-1 for almost nothing and they are very cheap everywhere. I hate the menu diving. It is very complicated to program. Do you, or someone else, have used the VZ-1 and what do you think?
I only had space for 11, but there will be other lists. I have played the VZ-1, but I don't really remember it. I think it was an updated version of Phase Distortion, but you probably need someone else to chime in.
VZ-1 is basically an FM synth, except when an operator is phase-modulated, its frequency is replaced by 0 Hz (to get around the Yamaha patent). This has the unfortunate effect of making the harmonics odd (like a square wave), and you're supposed to use the saw 1-5 waveforms and the ring modulation to get around this unfortunate side effect of using the phase modulation (which you need to do if you're going to have any variation in brightness over time), and to get around the lack of FM feedback.
I'm curious what a hardware M1, D50 or Wavestation offers that the software versions don't, considering that these are entirely digital internally except for the DAC. Whereas software versions of genuine analogue are harder to reproduce. (Disclaimer: I own only two analog synths: the mopho and the bass station, and don't use them that much.)
"... to get a portion of that experience, even if it's not identical" -- spot on -- and true of most synths. Generally good advice for anything, really.
...speaking of Pat Metheny. I had always thought the lead on Last Train Home was a synth until I saw a live performance video. I remember they used that song for an Amtrak commercial... First place I heard it. Great song.
I agree with you on all points. About 10 years ago, I started collecting the Nord Lead series and never looked back. To my ears, they are remarkable. I don’t know how they do it. and this is coming from someone who’s owned a number of vintage analogs. And (thanks to a friend), I even had a Jupiter-8 in my home for three months. It was a cool experience, but after about 3 days I was like, meh.. The thing also weighs a ton and became frighteningly hot after about 10 minutes of use. I was terrified that it was going to blow up on my watch. I think it’s not so much the synth as it is. (It’s who played them, and what recordings they were featured on). In other words “synth lore”.
Thanks for saying this. I totally agree with you. It took me a stretch to get there. The explosion of hype around the 106 I'll never understand. I'd try to tell ppl "hey this was considered a starter synth in the 80s." But still they'd shell out 1400 for them. I was offered a CS80 once. I went to check out an OBFV and the guy sort of switched it up and offered the CS instead. Knowing the weight the trouble and the cost to maintain i declined. But like you said, "If my neighbor had one!" Thanks for bringing it up. I'm sure you'll get a lot of hate but not from me.
I always though of the CS-80 as an over-hyped home organ with ADSR. So you're not alone.😉 OTOH, the Moog 15 APP is killer on the iPhone! (And it's M-OWE-G, not M-OOO-G. Bob wouldn't care, but out of respect...
Since the release of this video, I have seen Reverb prices drop over 25%. I replaced most of my vintage analogs with modern reissues such as a Prophet 10, OBX8, Model D 2016 reissue. These will be easy to repair in the future. I did hang on to the Juno 60, they are reliable and nothing I have heard sounds like that amazing chorus. And yes, I have a 106 which has new voice chips and is near mint, I think it sounds great, especially for spacey pads.
I used to be bitter that one of my friends, not sure which, swiped my Juno 106 back in '99. Now I'm grateful. The boutique does a great job and there are 5 other options in hardware and software. Even my MPC has a Juno VST.
Agree on the modular rabbit hole. I still have a rack and I've spent thousands on modules. It was fun and a learning experience but they really are not that great and a huge time killer looking for that perfect new sound. I can go over to any of my other hardware synths and dial up a new sound that is better in a fraction of the time. Getting a analogue synth with extensive patching matrices are incredibly versatile for sound design and cost a fraction of the money and a whole lot less time patching.
Never really wanted to get into modular, and it seems to be an expensive route. If anyone reading this is into modular please don't throw your patch cables at me😂
@@jp4751- I started going down the modular route. Some of the sequencers are amazing. But the cost vs return is way too high so I sold the lot. No regrets 👍
Too many do not understand the immediate power and one-to-ons functionality of the instruments under discussion. The present day problems with this 40-50+ gear is finding compatible parts and competent technicians. Today’s gear by and large cannot match the build quality of these vintage gear. Software? You can NEVER get that same immediacy as with hardware. I’ve tried for years to integrate software into a live environment and it NEVER sounded as good as hardware and the setup and troubleshooting was a PITA. Plus the software is only as good as the computer you are using!
Interesting post. I'd amend the subject to be more along the lines of Overhyped/Overpriced. There isn't a single bad sounding synth on the list. In fact the only bad thing about any of the synths on the list, are the prices. If you're starting out and don't mind menu diving or mouse clicking, then there are loads of cheaper alternatives than the gear you mentioned, but none will give you immediate sound sculpting access like these classics which were basically knob-per-function instruments just like drawbars on an organ. With the almost infinite knobs/sliders/access points of modular, that's probably the only one I 100% agree with, only because if you don't understand basic synthesis fundamentals, like the OG Moog Oscillator-Filter-VCA paradigm, then a modular will likely overwhelm you. Not only are modulars typically some of the most expensive, unless you understand, and absolutely need to access the matrix of complexity they afford, you would truly be wasting your money. Most of the gear on the list is so well sought after, they are almost, (but probably not quite) financial investments.
As a teenager and an owner of a brand new Jupiter 8 in 1983 I can tell this, when I came home from work, opened my door and saw that gorgeous Jupiter 8 waiting for me to switch it on I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. It as an inspirational keyboard, the Ferrari of synths and nothing will ever replace it. 😎
It's an amazing instrument. Appreciate the history.
Don't ever sell it, just having one is legendary
Soft synths walk circles around that thing… sorry, man 🤷♂️
@@ghfjfghjasdfasdf walks circles around what ? and what is a soft synth, I'm not being sarcastic I'm asking because I don't understand the terminology
The Jupiter 8
Software Synths
Stumbled across this and now subscribed. As someone who has been using synths since the mid 70’s I agree 100% with what you are saying here. I am also much more focused on composition today and getting into detailed sound design gets in the way. What I look for now are tools that accelerate the process of composition.
Thanks for the sub and the comment.
Looking at the Erica Synth DIY modules I soldered myself, "he's not talking about you. You are an educational expense"
Jeffrey woke up that morning and chose pure and utter violence.
LOL! 😂
Best comment here
I'm telling you, man... you're BRAVE, rational, down to earth, objective and solid. Most youtubers can't even have two of these together, think of Dr.Mix and the like. I'm a synth fan since the early 90s and yes... most of my acquaintances get crazy about overhyped synths and pay an absurd amount of money for very old machines they can't even program or configure. I'm a hardware person anyway, engineer and designer. Count me in your fan club. Far greetings from Chile, Southamerica.
Finally someone has the balls to say what many of us really think!
I'm not always going to say things that everyone will like. I understand that if I wanted my channel to be more popular, I should sound like a used car salesman and tell people that everything is amazing. Keep a lookout for my Halloween episode. It's just for fun, but some people may be upset. Thank you for your support, it is appreciated.
Since uploading this video, the channel owner has been "detained" indefinitely by the Analogue Synth Police.
LOL. Thanks for that.
Hahaha. you'd wish. This guy talks the truth, sadly not accepted by those analog myth believers....
Always nice to hear opinions about synths. You are obviously very knowledgeable about the subject. Keep em coming!
Thanks, will do!
I don’t think anyone has ever claimed any of these synths to be practical or economical.
Neither is a 1970 Miura.
But that’s not the point, is it?
You make a good point, sir. Thanks for the comment.
And one of my favorite manga characters is named after it.
Berhinger has pretty much killed a lot of the resale value of these synths like the Model D and ProVS.
The D-50 and the Wavestation are pure gold for someone who is more focused on composing and less on playing around with synths. I would add the Roland JV-880 / 1080 and you’re good to go. At least these are the 3 synths (besides the Alpha Juno) I use on every song I make.
Totally agree. Thanks for the comment.
That D50 keybed is surprisingly nice. And I also use mine to control a JV-1080, so evidently I completely support this statement. And unlike the synths in this video, used Wavestations are still affordable
@@JeffreyScottPetro I also agree, but I'd point out that all three of these instruments have excellent software emulations (at least the XV-5080 for the JV, which is basically the same thing). When I buy a hardware instrument, I try to get something unique that doesn't duplicate what's already on my computer or iPad.
Alpha Juno more reliable than a 106 which it updated
You’re missing a lot here. Vintage synths and drum machines are a good investment aside from sounding amazing. For example I purchased a mint Linndrum in 2015 for $1400 and it’s now worth over 6k. Nine out of ten new synths will only decline in value over time. Also most vintage synths are made with far superior craftsmanship than new synths coming out of China. All the new moog stuff is coming out of China. Most of the new roland stuff is made out of plastic. In the late 90’s most companies stopped releasing schematics and therefore most new synths are also not easily serviced if there’s a problem. Where a Juno 106 or a minimoog will ALWAYS be serviceable.
Interesting perspective. Thanks for the comment.
I bought a near mint condition Jupiter-8 in 2012 for just under $7,000. I still kick myself to this day for wasting so much money.
Just my two cents... if resale value is your deciding factor for buying a synth, you're kinda missing the point. Especially if you're passing up a synth that you like more but won't buy because it "won't hold its value".
Surface mount discrete analog tech is quite reliable nowadays.
I don’t think very many people buy synths just because of its resale value. There are much faster ways to make a return on your money. But you are absolutely right.
This is a really good and justified list of the Synth-Lore overhyped units. The exception is the MINI MOOG at number 6. The car equivalent is a classic Corvette Corvette. The architecture and signal flow is outstanding and still is extremely sexy.
Appreciate your comment, sir.
Did want to add a couple more things. I agree with your list. I too owned several older vintage ones in the day (Juno 60 twice, Juno 106 twice, OB-xa, OB-8 twice, Jupiter 6 twice, SH-01, DX7 three times, etc…. Point is, except for the DX7, Korg M1, D50 & SH-01, they all had to head to the repair shop at least once! Got rid of them all but kept the DX7 & went to rack versions of the others. Then I fell in love with Arturia and found that as the most viable way to get what I wanted. Check out G-Force Oberheim suite… wow!! Thanks again for your list & keep them coming! 😊
Wow! Those are some great boards. If only everything was as reliable as a DX7.
My Pro-One basically fell to pieces, unprovoked, on stage !
100% agree on the Juno 106. Juno 60/6 sounds way better and it's not even close. I also think that the JX series is underrated.
Very good comment on various synthesizers, congrats. :-) I am a person who was in his early 20ies when the first affordable synthesizers became available. Apart from my Rhodes Mark I piano I owned only three originals (plus some periphery): a Crumar Multiman S, a Roland Jupiter-4 and a Roland SH-1. With these I have been able to write and record beautiful songs (on tape). I still own the SH-1 which is about 45 years old now, of course it requires some maintenance but I would not sell it because I love it so much and it is very rare. When I sold my Jupiter-4 a couple of years ago, which was still fully functional at that time, I did so because I felt I had heard it all of what the synthesizer was capable of, even though it sounded richer than the Jupiter-8 which I could not afford at those early days but of course would have liked to own. For the sum I obtained from the sale I purchased a (physical) Hammond organ (SK2) in order to be able to write songs in the style of Deep Purple. Nowadays I am using a plethora of software synth of all kinds, mostly and preferably the physically modelled re-makes of their precursors, avoiding the sampled ones. And I am completely satisfied with this option. Owning the originals may on one hand be costly if you can acquire one and on the other hand you can count the time when there will arise some electrical or mechanical malfunction. I guess in the end it is not worth it. (/from Germany)
I really enjoyed hearing that history. Thanks for the comment.
Finally. Somebody said it.
Side note: how the TB-303 didn't make the list - as much as I love it - is mental 😀
I have SEVEN TB-303 clones and their total price is still less than an original. One model is actually FUN to program!
Appreciate the comment. This is just one list... more to come.
Nothing sounds like a 303 though 😂
2 303s don't even sound alike 😂
I would happily put a large pile of cash on 99.99% of synth enthusiasts not being able tell the difference between a HW 303 and the Roland Cloud VST in a mix, let alone your average punter. @@TheBroDotTV
Ahhh, the rave fart machine....I have a Ballon that makes those noises
Stumbled on your channel from the algorithm and I found this list really interesting. It also gave great comfort to someone who is producing in the box too!
You also remind me a lot of Phill Spencer from Xbox 👍
Had to look up Phill Spencer. Thanks for stopping by. I appreciate your comment.
Reluctantly I found myself agreeing with this guy. And it hurt .
Behringer Deepmind 12 - underrated Synthezier 😎
Couldn't agree more. I have a Shruthi-1 with SMR-4MKII filter. This synth can emulate any MOOG, or Roland sound, plus digital waveforms, for a well rounded synth. Only payed 200.00 dollars for this synth, plus forty bucks shipping, it is brand new. I have already created many patch's and I am thinking of purchasing an additional one with a different flavor filter. I might even purchase a Michigan Synth Works XENA Synth, they are only $435.00 out the door. Cheers!
That's an unusual synth. Very cool that you can see inside the device through the case. Thanks for the comment.
@@JeffreyScottPetro Old design, incredible sounding mono synth for the money. You can order different types of filters for the Shruthi-1, and Ambika synths, like the SMR-4 filter, a Polivoks filter, a 4PM filter, and a Dual SVF filter design. The (Ambika synth), same heritage as the Shruthi-1 is a polyphonic version, with six voice cards. Old designs really with very modern applications. Check them out my friend, pretty nice value in my humble opinion. Cheers!
Just because it has the same filter doesn’t mean it sounds the same. My Pro One sounds way different than my other CEM based synths including the Prophet 5.
But other than that the shruthi is cool synth.
The SH-101/Juno 106 were great for me from a learning standpoint, but honestly? My Minilogue ticks most of those boxes. Most of my synths can and are emulated just as well in software, but I do really enjoy playing with them cost-effectiveness be damned. The big Casios (VZ and CZ) are just shockingly fun to play with even though, as digital synths, software can do the job just fine.
Yeah. As much as I love all the new fancy stuff I own, I still have a few classics that I love to play and could never sell.
It IS fun to play the real instruments. Some I have, some others, I can only imagine (with the help of my computer and my Fantom 8). It's good to be playing keyboards in 2024.
"I can understand why it costs more than a Ford Pinto". 😂😂😂😂 ROFL! I love it! FINALLY, someone who speaks my language! I think I'm in love. 😊 This is such a practical video. And you didn't even mention the tuning instabilities of the Memorymoog. I used an Xpander at a studio once. It was OK, but I actually thought it was pretty limited. A bandmate had a Prophet 5. I hated that screechy thing. Many of the synths on this list I have Arturia versions of, and I rarely use them. And don't even get me started on Modular. I'm a songwriter. I don't have time to waste noodling around on something like that. And that's all I ever hear people do on those things on social media: noodle. Not one catchy melody ever comes out of what I hear online. Thanks for being a voice of reason.
Thanks for the comment.
I'm sure like many here, this list caught me completely by surprise. I suspect it's more to do with the eye watering asking prices they command today. It seems to be more like owning an antique than having an instrument you'd use everyday.
A very respectful but honest assessment of some vintage classics, you get so much more reliability, flexibility and potential in modern synths available today...sorry if that upsets the old school fetishists
Thank you, sir. As I said in the video, I love it, but way overhyped.
Tons of software and hardware editing panel options available for the Matrix 1000. Kiwi Technics makes a mod that allows editing of ALL patches, among other improvements. I have the 1000 and the 6R and they're effectively the same once you get a Sysex or hardware editor going (the menu diving required on the 6R front panel is so obtuse that an editing panel is still very much your best option). Bob Grieb also makes a firmware update for each (a simple EPROM swap) that eliminates the MIDI latching and latency issues.
Thanks for sharing.
I agree with almost all of this, but... I absolutely LOVE the sound of the Prophet 5. I love the interface/workflow. I love the limitations. I learned synths on a rev.2 back in 1980 so I recognize the emotional tie. I do NOT love it enough to pay for one and use VSTs instead. However, IF Behringer pull off a decent clone...
The prophet 5 is a classic. Thanks for the comment.
Ok. I did get a bit “butt hurt” by your choices but I see your point. The legendary status attached to these originals far outweighs their usefulness against more flexible, more reliable stuff developed later with the benefit of 40+ years of technological advancement. Obvious really. And I’m on board, I have Hydrasynth which I know is more capable than a CS-80, and a System 8 for all things ancient and Roland. Why do I still crave the old stuff though? I’d love to see a 21st century version of this list. My #1? Everything Nord…
I've actually created a 21st century list. I haven't recorded it yet, and I feel it would just upset a bunch of people. Thanks for the comment.
@@JeffreyScottPetro 🤣 Go on, you know you want to…
prophet 5. best synth I ever used on productions, wether it's the old one or the rev4
Thanks for the comment.
Agreed. Swiss Army knife..
Even on today’s standards. Prophet 5 is king.
Prophet 5 is amazing, but today I would go with the Take 5. I have both and they can sound almost identical but I prefer the T5, because it has the features the Prophet is missing like Stereo, SubOSC, 2 Lfos, Mod Matrix, Overdrive, Panning ( you have Voice Spread as a Mod Source, very cool).
I don’t even miss the 61 Keys because of the clever octave split.
The only stuff the T5 is missing is the amazing Poly Unison, but the stereo stuff alone makes the T5 sound more appealing.
@@neolepicI don’t get this stereo stuff. I just record the same sound twice and use the panorama button.👍🏿
Wow! Thanks for being up front about this despite all the current vintage hype. I came up in 80s as well and saw all of these synths come and go. Of course “synth lore” is a thing, which is why I own a Prophet 5 rev4, but my Uh-he plug-in sounds just as good and has more capabilities.
It's hard to find seasoned musicians that will admit to that. Thanks for your comment, Sean.
Loved this video! I agree with all your points, and also believe that they extend to software emulations of the synths on your list; 99% of the time, I end up using general "all-around" softsynths (like Surge XT and Vital, or even stock DAW synths), rather than reach for a Juno or CS-80-emulating plugin. Because their GUIs are minimalistic and don't simulate a hardware synth panel, it's easier and faster for me to dial in the sound that I want. I do find modular synth sofware super fun, though! Would you make a video comparing the "big leagues" of synth emulation (G-Force, IK Multimedia, Arturia, Cherry Audio, Softube etc.)? I'm especially curious to know what you think about Syntronik, since it's a ROMpler that plays round-robin samples from the original hardware, rather than a "regular" synth plugin.
Appreciate the comment.
I agree with most of the list. But Juno 106? Come on. Thin? 😅
I got mine since end of 90th (yes, now I have to replace the chips) and most of the time I had to dial it back in a mix as it's too powerful. The transient and bass pressure is huge. And the harmonics it has in higher frequencies always cuts through the mix, no matter what you do with it. The filter is awesome, especially when mistreated for experimentation. A kind of is own.
There are some VST emulations but they all are very undefined, weak and flat in comparison - even Softube's version.
Nymphes is a great sounding hardware alternative but it doesn't make the character of the 106 redundant.
Which monitor speakers are you listening on? Cheers.
Is my semi-modular semi overhyped?
LOL.
Kinda 😂
I totally agree with you !! I have the chance to test lot of them and you right absolutely
Thanks for the comment.
Hi, this may be more of a ‘complex’ list to make but…what would be cool is if someone would make a list of the best current keyboards (less than 15 yrs old) that emulates the older vintage ones! I know Behringer has been busy with that & Aturia makes great soft synth versions but if I wanted a reasonably priced ‘clone’ version of a Juno 106 or Jupiter 8 or CS-80 or minimoog? That would be cool to have as a reference. Just an FYI….
Thanks for the suggestion. I have been working a few months on a video that may offer a less expensive option to the Jupiter 8. I hope to have it done by the summer.
Based on what you wrote, I would say "search no more".. The Behringer DeepMind 12 is what you need.
Two synth I have had that I'd add... Teisco 60f, single oscillator with a week 12db filter. I put a 2:1 compressor between the filter and VCF which helped to beef it up a bit but it was still not very good. It is build like a tank! But the sliders are prone to dirt ingress, So, if you buy one, check the sliders first and keep it covered when not in use. The other is a rare animal, syntrack by Spectral Audio. A one trick pony only any good for bass. One good thing about it is that the few controls it has all recieve//send midi. It has an 18db low pass filter that sounds reather thin (I would put that down to the LM13700 used in the filters) I have seen both on eBay/Reverb going for silly prices. Personally, I would not want to pay more that £250 for each of them.
Thanks for the info. I've seen the Teisco but never had a chance to play one.
I can’t be mad about your #1 pic, but purely for sound design it’s so fascinating like you said. So far the only semi-modular gear I have is the Behringer Neutron and that box packs a massive punch for the price. My pipe dream is to build a stage rack full of modular synths that I can wheel around to gigs and control with a master keyboard like a Fantom, or even a controller like the Keylab. Redundant? Yes. Exciting? Also yes. Lol
I Sounds like a plan. Thanks for the comment.
I was just talking about this with a friend the other night. It’s really about price-to-performance ratio.
I paid $300 for my Matrix 1000 (24 years ago) and that was a great deal. Totally worth it. Would I pay $600 or more for one? Absolutely not. As you said, for the price they fetch today, you could get something much more useful.
The CS-80 is heavy, unreliable, and costs more than many luxury cars…it would possibly be more practical to own if it wasn’t for the over-inflated price. There is nothing about it that can justify a price tag that huge. I already felt that way when they were going for $10k…and that was long long ago!
Ditto the Jupiter 8. It’s a lovely synth, sits in a mix nicely, but it absolutely does not warrant the gigantic asking price. There are plenty of ways to get close to that sound without selling a kidney.
Really that’s the deal with most of the things on your list - they’re legendary, have been used on lots of records, but the hype has outstripped their usefulness. As the price goes up and up, they become less and less appealing.
I still consider the Minimoog the king of synths, but its incredibly limited feature set is not worth the many thousands they fetch nowadays. I paid $3500 for mine, still the most expensive instrument I own, and I used to take it to all my gigs…it sure does look cool sitting up there, but it’s just not worth the risk anymore since they have only gone up in value. I use a Behringer D now onstage and no one has ever complained about the sound being inferior…
I don’t really get why people are so nuts over the Juno-106. The Juno-6/60 sounds better imho although it’s missing a few features. Back in the late 90s my friend bought a Juno-6 for a few hundred bucks and I thought it was “just ok”…I was an analog junkie and thought it sounded thin. Which, in a way, it does. He willed it to me and it’s been a staple in my studio since he passed in 2020. I’ve grown to love the Juno sound…it’s nothing fancy , very predictable, but just works in a mix so well. Hard to make a Juno sound bad. But I would never buy one for what they go for today!
Totally agree... price to performance is a great way to look at it. Appreciate the comment.
Same. I bought one back in the 90s for, I believe, $240 or so. That was a great purchase at the time. I remember the salesman saying, "Well, if you want something low priced, we have a bunch of these for sale. They're not bad."
Agree with the most, except for one knob per function. Knobs are not only for learning, knobs are for realtime control while playing. That's where the difference between playing piano keys connected to a sound module vs playing the actual synth lies. Just like using different playing techniques and switching them on the fly with a continuously expressive acoustic instrument like a flute or a violin (something a piano practically lacks), knobs are used to re-shape the sound as you play - not to set them and forget them.
Totally agree with your list. I have owned all that you have listed, still own some of them. love the sound of the memorymoog, had 2 of them, unreliable as their decade past reputation dictates, loved my CS80... im a true keys player and this it the best live performance synth I've owned, sold it while it was still mint and working perfectly and as such, paid off half of my mortgage :) (not kidding!). A synth I still have that I would add to the list is my Yamaha DX1, its an uber rare flagship synth from 1983 and very cool looking, great keybed etc.. BUT its nothing more that 2 DX7's in one box and sound thin and dated like all DX's do. It's my next to get sold, that will almost pay off the rest of my mortgage! lol. The synth I think is the most overrated is the minimoog, it's really not that special, doesn't even have an LFO. Its a collectors synth today.
Best modern synths I have today are my MatrixBrute, PolyBrute, Schmidt Eightvoice. The Schmidt though is not worth the $20k-ish price tag, its too expensive IMHO, I got mine in a trade/deal otherwise I wound never have bought one outright. I'm a composer, recording artist and performing artist, not a collector, if a synth here isn't getting used for a long time, it gets sold or traded. It was great to hear you state that you are a composer too! Great video, thanks for posting it!
Those are some great synths you have owned. Thanks for sharing and thanks for the comment.
What is your take on the Alesis Andromeda? Thanks for the vid. 👍
I've talked about it quite a bit in some episodes with specs and my opinion, and it will be in a Music Gear Market episode pretty soon. I've always liked it, and at one time I wanted one. I got to play it at the 2002 NAMM show. It's deep, with more controls than the Millenium Falcon. The only issue "I've heard" of is some of the chips failing, and they are proprietary, so possibly very hard to replace.
Hi Jeff, greetings from Liverpool UK!!
As a very long standing synth lover and player I found this video incredibly interesting indeed!!
Being as you mentioned almost all the classics here, just wondering which synths you wouldn't deem overhyped??
Arp Odyssey, Oberheim OBXa, Alesis Andromeda, Moog Polymoog, Korg M1, PPG Wave,
Korg Polysix, Roland Jupiter 4, Access Virus, Roland SH101, SCI Pro One and Roland Juno 60 weren't mentioned, so I'm guessing it might be those??
Just have to say that I owned a Yamaha DX7 briefly around 1989 and really wasn't impressed at all,
after dreaming of owning one for so long, wow, what an anti-climax!!
I sold it a few months later and bought a Roland D50 which was much more in line with what I believed a good synth should be!!
Hi Andre... birthplace of the Beatles, that's awesome: I would say the M1, DX7, D-50, and Wavestation, are not overhyped. They're also relatively affordable for older keyboards. I see you are not a fan of the DX7. I'm a fanboy of the DX7, but I respect your opinion, we all have our favorites. I love the D-50 too, used to have two D-550's. I need to get the one I still have fixed. Appreciate the comment.
That E-mu modular looks gorgeous. Wouldn't mind to own it in spite of all its overhypeness 😍
This is the number one thing synth collectors don't want to hear.
Indeed. Thanks for the comment.
Collectors being the key-word.
my #1 would be the Korg PS series. How stupid one coukd be to pay that amount of cash for one of those?
I have played one before, and it was a very temperamental beast, with a few noticeable things wrong with it. It was a lot of fun to play and learn, but its feature set is not attractive enough to make it essential, and the sound is just unusual enough to where it's not really great for bread and butter sounds either. If it was affordable, it would make a great side piece. But it's not, so it isn't. Cool piece of history though, and great sound.
Korg software sounds great
No argument from me on your picks as there is something different for everyone. Ask 100 people for this list and you will get 100 different lists. My only comment really is... it is pronounced Moog as in rhyming with Rogue. Dave Luce (from Moog) taught me that in Buffalo NY. Great and interesting video!
100% agree!
Thank you for your honest words.
- Some people are into nostalgia, and collect synths (and don't mind maintaining them - that's all part of the "fun"), just as some people are into collecting vintage cars which have little modern practicality. What gear nut in a general sense has more gear than they actually need? Hold up your hand if you're not guilty of that syndrome. Rarity itself makes for collectability, regardless of other considerations.
- I'm no vintage synth collector, but I have owned until recently a Korg 01/W fd, which I bought beat up, and fully restored. That one is easy to work on, and the parts are cheap, and relatively available. The main takeaway for me was the Yamaha-supplied synth-action keybed in that thing, which I LOVED, and still do. I understand that Korg used that keybed on the M1 through the Oasys, except for of course the 88-key weighted models. If an action is not inviting, who wants to play it? And that one is a "goldilocks" action, which should please anyone.
It morphed from the FS to the now FSX version - and this is just a guess - due to the elimination of lead in the weights in the keys, due to "environmental compliance" reasons. It is _supposed_ to be (according to others - I haven't played the latest variant) essentially identical in feel to the former version.
- Most overhyped (by far) current modern synth: Montage M. I wonder how many of those things Yamaha has given away to UA-camrs in exchange for glowing reviews opposed to _actually selling them_ as part of their marketing-hype barrage. I for one didn't bite - HARD pass. Exasperating WAY-OVERPRICED child's toy. It's very flashy (look at all those pretty lights!) and snazzy and high-tech looking...which is not a coincidence on Yamaha's part...but it doesn't do much past the "shine wears off the new Corvette" stage to justify its high price. The only real thing going for it is the keybed, which is the best out there. (But - to repeat - you can get essentially that keybed on an M1, and of course other early Yamaha synths like the DX7 up through the Motif.) All those sliders on the Montage are for _undoing_ goofy stuff, as opposed to _doing_ sane, grownup stuff. Weee! I got me a new Corvette! Year later...would you like to buy a Montage M?...real cheap?
- Way, WAY better: Something with the aforementioned Yamaha keybed in a MUCH lower-priced and much simpler/easier to get around/understand package. I own two used Korg Triton Pro's - for the keybed - and several soft synths. If you need a good piano for gigging, I'd suggest the excellent Pianoteq (VERY small in resources modeled piano) in a small inexpensive laptop, or maybe for studio work, one of the very impressive (but VERY large - sample-wise) Production Voices soft pianos in a powerful PC. It doesn't come much better than that brand - and their offerings are relatively inexpensive. You need a Yamaha CX7? - GET THAT ONE by PV - as opposed to being lured in by the flashy Montage. Your wallet - and your common sense - will thank you.
Bad news: that $4,000 new modern synth isn't going to write that Top Ten hit for you - that takes something called creativity. It takes a good song, with a good singer singing it. Listen to a great song - for example Annie Lennox's "No More I Love You's" with its lovely _judicious_ plain vanilla Juno/Jupiter synth pad playing in the background. The great song/singer did most of the work - the synth was just a small part of the whole. Put down your overpriced/overhyped toys and direct the funds towards something else.
Great stuff, thanks for the comment.
I'm a hobbyist so I have nothing really to add here, just want to say I'm really glad my first experience with synthesis was an ARP 2600 owned by the school I attended. It lived in the music lab and was ignored by all except a handful of nerds who took the electronic music class. It required me to understand what I was doing to get anything out of it, and invited experimentation. And the sounds it makes are very musical and lovely. I can't imagine owning one though. Maybe if they were a few hundred dollars, for old times sake I'd love to have one to goof off with. What I really need is to find another music lab that has one!
Thank you. Sure been sick of hearing people amp up the myths about these synths. I have been performing on keyboards since the mid 1960s. Organ was first, then piano and then synths. So I have lived through all the years of keyed instruments. Acoustic piano is my favorite:) and I perform on stage as a solo pianist. I have owned synths I bought new from the 1980s on, lots of them, lots of digital pianos, samplers, groove boxes, drum machines, drum pads, and software stuff too. I have always been a hardware person, dabbled in the software synths but soon hated it.
I lost my vintage studio back in 2008, with all those 80s and 90s synths, in a divorce. Been building a new studio ever since and last year finally finished it. Did I go back and try and buy used analog and digital gear? NO!!!! No way am I buying that old undependable stuff that is easily duplicated today (even the same synths don't sound the same when old). I don't compose for a single synth, I orchestrate, so the isolated sound of a synth is rarely heard on my albums. While there remain many cheap synths that sound horrible, most synths with a little research will be a welcome addition to a studio.
So, the new 100% hardware studio is all newer gear, basically chose analog (low voice count) for soloing, and digitals poly for chording and free play without limits. The newer synths are so much more better than that old stuff I used to have, more creative, more dependable, and with good preamps and sound sources better sounding. AND I finally have a digital piano I am happy with after all these years!
1) Kurzweil VAST / FM / KVA / Keymap synth. Been wanting to try this synth for 30 years.
2) Roland RD-2000 for the V-Piano.
3) Roland Fantom (current) for launching clips, and deep sound design.
4) Korg Minilogue and MinilogueXD for solo play and recording to a sampler.
5) Arturia MicroBrute. Got the last one before out of production.
6) Roland Gaia and Gaia2. Two highly creative, high voice count synths that are lighting fast to sound design on.
7) Roland JunoDS. Just for the vocoder and layering. The 8 measure pattern sequencer is okay too.
8) All the Roland Boutiques that have full surface controls.
9) Korg Electribe2. Excellent samples and good for a few percussion additions.
10) 1010Music Black Box sampler. The best sounding sampler in the world. Small and lighting fast to get the job done.
11) Korg Krome. For adding textures from many MIDI channels.
12) Yamaha MX49. Used mostly as a controller.
13) Yamaha RefaceDX. To learn FM sound design.
Great story and great gear. Thanks for sharing.
I got myself a Jupiter 8, Juno 106 and JX-3P in a box with the System 8, I hope these will last me longer than their Analog versions. Still got heaps of control, but hopefully none of the analog issues. 🤞 Cool video and list!
Thanks, appreciate the support.
I’m very happy having a Minifreak :) small and full of features and sounds. I also own a Moog Sub 37, bargain when it came out! I paid 1400 British pounds
Regarding the CS80 - the Arturia software version is so fun to play with!
I have played with it too. It is fun. Appreciate the comment.
Try the Cherry Audio version. It's cheap and even better!
Agree 💯 got tired of trying to find parts.
Me too, thanks for the comment, Rob.
I appreciate your comments about the dx7 at the end. I think everyone has always known it as the 80s pop balad piano synth that's inpossible to prgram so when they get it's with an understanding of its limitations. Regardless, it is a fantastic machine for many reasons. I've recommended it to people purely as a midi controller because the keybed alone makes it worth the price
Agreed, such a solid keybed on the DX7. I wish the Wavestation keybed was that sturdy. Thanks for the comment.
would this list be the same if prices in the used market were how they were in 2014, got my 106 for $450 for example, wasn't disappointed
Thanks for the question. On person that commented suggested that it can be a price compared to utility ratio evaluation, and I think there is merit to that suggestion. The answer to your question could be yes to some degree, but this video is not just about price, it's more about the halos that follow the gear around. I have another video that is coming up in a month or two that specifically evaluates on price. I think some of the gear here gets hit a second time, and there is other ancillary studio gear, not just electronic instruments. Thanks for the comment.
I was with you all the way except for the Prophet 5. That keyboard is pure magic like no other. Agree with all your other choices as I've owned many of them (minimoog, Matrix 12, Juno, etc).
Appreciate the comment, sir.
I own a small eurorack ensemble. For me, it's simply a lot of nostalgia, because i grew up in the 70ies and 80ies with Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze (Berlin School stuff). And to be honest, in a practical point of view, it makes no sense. But it's FUN.
Love TD, appreciate the comment.
Most sensible synth video that I've seen on UA-cam in a long time--maybe ever. If you have a PC or iPad, than you have far more sonic resources than any of these will give you for less money. Old Korgs like the Mono/Poly, MS-20 and MicroKorg and anything that ARP ever made also belong on this list. I'd add the EMS Synthi A/AKS/VCS3 too. Analog snobs are like Rolex watch collectors. They enjot the rareity, cost and exclusivity of their items. But they don't perform their basic function any better than equivalents that cost a tiny fraction as much--and often with more utility and functions. I got my first Moog in the 70's and I have zero desire to go back to that era.
Appreciate the comment.
Sorry, but the MS-20 doesn't. None of the emulations even come close to the hardware for that one. Own the hardware and can compare it. Not even the hardware Behringer K2 sounds like the original! Just listen to Starsky Carr which does very good comparisons!
The Prophet 5, Mini Moog, Pro 1. Juno 106, Jupiter 8 are almost perfectly emulated in software though.
@Magnus_Loov Could be. I've never owned an MS-20 and always used emulation, including the Kronos. Idoi know that they're respected for the8r raw, dirty sound, so that might be hard to get right. On the whole, though, VSTs continue to improve and that's definitely where I see the trend going.
I applaud you for saying it. I wouldn't want to own an actual CS80. I've seen what's inside of there and have heard how fragile beasties they are. I'm happy with the emulation of it from Cherry Audio and the version I built in PureData. Took me a month and lots of study and poring over the manual and any technical docs I could find. The filter envelope was a revelation and I've generalized that approach when making synths in software. I learned so much from the CS80.
Also, absolutely adore the Jupiter 8 and TAL makes a loving recreation in the TAL J-8. One of my favorites. Also, the SQ8L (Ensoniq SQ80) is an old version, but sounds great. I've got a big collections of the classics in software. And that's good, because I don't have the budget for anything else than the software versions, many of them free. There's also Osiris, an emulation of the Access Virus B and C. They emulated the DSP chip and Osiris uses the (end user supplied) ROMs from the Virus.
I have had the opportunity to play a couple of Dave Smith instruments and they were lovely. So expressive and immediate, but again, unobtanium for my budget. Inspiration for when I'm doing sound design and creating expressive patches with lots of dimensions
And the modular -- whoo what a money sink they could be. Unless your wife builds a book case of modules for a few hundred dollars. Lots of fun and enjoyment and pride for her to have made an instrument like that. But most of the practical modular stuff I use is VCV as a CLAP plugin in my DAW. Unlimited modules, essentially free.
I love sound design, I love composing and studying classic synths has taught me a lot. But I'll save my money. Maybe a Korg WaveState. That's something in reach. Or a UB-Xa for that polyphonic aftertouch keyboard and classic Oberheim sound. Those filters! and multi-timbrality, like the Jupiter and the CS-80. So that's where SurgeXT gets that idea, from all the classic powerhouses of yesteryear, wink wink.
Appreciate the comment.
You pronounce Moog the way I pronounced Moog before I was browbeaten by a cadre of remote synth scholars on the internet, ah the memories of the before times are delicious in such weird ways. Juno 106 was the first synth on my mind, glad to see it in the winner's circle.
...thanks for the comment.
Funny that you mentioned the Memorymoog. I bought mine at the tender age of 18 in late '82.
I was so hyped... but broke.
It was truly a bittersweet experience. When it stayed in tune, it was solid & awesome...that became less & less frequent however.
I subsequently became very acquainted with the voice deactivation function on the keypad.
Anyway, sold it within months and moved on to a JP-6 & JX-3P (my first ever MIDI pairing...and still cheaper than a JP-8).
That's cool. Thanks for sharing.
I was in a trip-hop band in the 1990s, and we were blown away by how good the SH-101 sounded in our tracks, so you can imagine how excited we were when I found a Juno 6 for £250 and brought it in.
We were all really disappointed at how thin it sounded.
As for modular…I don’t know, I think it’s for people who enjoy giving themselves IQ tests? It’s like the plot of Lord of The Rings, but in synth form!
Interesting comment, thanks.
Cool video! Yeah, I lusted after ALL those on the list, back in the day. I’ll be 60 next year. 😂 The oldest synth I have is the Korg DW-6000 and it still works great! Maybe you could do a list of some of the modern synths or software that could potentially replace these. Thanks!
Thanks for the idea and the comment.
This was fun. I was strapped in for no reason it seems. I can't find any fault in your list, and I agree that you could have made a list of 31 overhyped synths, and if you really wanted to, you could extend that to a much higher number by including synths being released today. I especially agree with your views on modular systems, and I say that as a sound designer and musician of more years than I'd care to admit.
One point to make here is the "nostalgia effect" that many synth buyers with a little too much extra cash fall victim to, which is an altogether different thing than the desire for analog sounding or perhaps true analog vintage synths, and not quite the same as GAS. Moog and other classic synth manufacturers have done quite well for themselves capitalizing on our collective nostalgia in the past decade or two. My first synth was a Roland Alpha Juno, which I spent countless hours playing in the late 80s. I loved that synth at the time, and I still miss it, nostalgically, but I'm not going to buy one today. I can replicate all of it easily with my more modern synths.
On the other hand, some people are collectors. They don't typically play the synths they own. They see these vintage synths as investments to resell, or as gear to brag about owning or having once owned. And this brings me to the point why I wanted to write this comment. None of these vintage synths or any of today's synths will make anyone a better musician. They won't magically improve your tracks. Besides, good musicians can make music with almost any piece of kit, new or old.
I'm almost done. LOL. Sorry for the long comment. I have three hardware Wavestations (2 EXs and 1 A/D) that I will never sell for any reason. They have all needed repair over the past 30 years -- screens, power supplies, a broken key. But to me they are priceless and still sound amazing today, and I'm quite comfortable editing them without software. In fact, I can't bear using a computer to make music or do sound design. That's a rant for another day.
Glad I found your channel. :)
Glad you found it too. Thanks for the comment.
Well done, excellent presentation. In the last 4/5 years, I have found soft synths have really come into their own. For example, my Korg M1 never sounded as good as the soft synth version by Korg!
Thanks for the comment.
Which of course is not surprising since they're entirely digital inside, and Korg can thus write a perfect emulation, with improvements like polyphony.
Liked and subscribed. Will take a look at other videos. Any thoughts on Osmose?
Tried one. Liked it. About 7% of presets are to die for. Quite a few are utter shite. Wouldn't like or know how to program one, took a look at that, nah...
Thanks for the sub. I have a video coming out soon that will answer your question on the Osmose. Appreciate your support.
@@JeffreyScottPetroGreat! It's a really wonderful thing. In some aspects. In others...not so much.
Great video! I agree, you can buy these classics in software for a fraction of the price. Yes the hardware may or may not sound better but software synths today offer very high value and sound quality.
Thanks for the comment.
WOW !! Finally somebody who dares to speak out about the analog myth. I myself, and it's no bragging, have owned all synths you mention in this video except for the CS80 back in the 80's. I did sell them all and never regret it. As you state: many people buy their Juno, just to sell it again after some months because they wake up from the analog myth dream. Some people start argueing that analog synths sound 'warmer' Well, the day they show me a by AES/EBU accepted and calibrated measuring device that has a scale from cold to warm, I'm ready to revise my knowledge... And as you conclude: It's all about what music you make, not about the gear you have. Sadly, only few people understand that.
I’ve been using, buying, and selling synths since the late 80s. I consider myself a recovered analog purist. I could not agree with you more. Every choice you made here was well warranted. ESP the modular synth placement. I look at modular as more of a tool for learning than music making. It can be done much cheaper in software and it does look cool, but that’s about it.
One of the best ways to nurture channel engagement is to calmly spout heresy with confidence. Well done, Jeffry! 👌😅👍
Yeah. I'm not winning a lot of hearts, but what I'm saying is truly how I feel. My friends tell me I should do what all the other youtubers do, say everything is amazing, everything is worth the price, and everyone should buy it all. I refuse to be a used car salesman. I've turned down sponsorship deals because I didn't believe in the product. I appreciate your comment, John.
@@JeffreyScottPetro 😎👍 I agree, it's best to say what you believe than to try to cater to one narrow school of thought!
Totally agree with you 🙌
Thanks for your comment and the support.
As much as I love some of these synths on the list, I totally get your argument and take no offense whatsoever, in fact i respect it and see you point of view. Thank you for your honest opinion 🙏
Thanks, appreciate the comment. BTW, cool screen name.
Casio VL Tone was the best - Dah, DAh, Dah. I have it now as a VSTI
LOL. A video you may be interested in will go public on May 7, 2024.
Moog is pronounced with a long "o" vowel, not "oo" like with a moo cow. It's 'moog" like "moan". Bob Moog used to mention how people didn't know how to pronounce his name. It's German, and was originally spelled Mohg.
For years I had a pin badge, from the Moog stand at a UK music show, that read "Moog rhymes with Vogue".
No, also in Germany this name is spelled Moog.
@@profpep Cool badge!
Actually, there is no exact English equivalent pronunciation to Moog in German. The rhyme to "Vogue" (another comment) isn't it! The "straight and open ending" long/double o vowel in German is just not present in English. English does always bend the o/oo to something else... 🥴
Actually, the PROPER PROPER pronunciation is "mogh" since it's a Dutch last name.
In the late 90s and early 2000s I paid what would be today considered bargain prices for all these synths but that put a big dent in my pocketbook at the time ( yes I had a working CS 80) and, with the exception of the Xpander ( the mutimode filter, lfo and envelope options make it still useful today imo) I agree with this generally- Had a linntronics memorymoog as well-they are all gone- do not miss them . Interestingly, I do miss my polyevolver.. BTW as Bob said "it's Moog as in Rogue"
Thanks, and I know about Bob's name. Part of a European upbringing. I often say Gah-rage and not Ger-rage and a bunch of other words, even after all these years. Some folks lost their mind in the comments. At least you were polite. Appreciate the comment.
Interesting list! It's a little controversial, but that's a good starting point for conversation.
I would offer two suggestions:
1) I believe that the real #1 most hyped synth should be the TB-303. It has a unique tone, but it's a one-trick-pony and plenty of other instruments can cover its territory.
2) Consider changing the name to Overhyped Synthesizers because the Xpander and Modular are not "keyboards." (That also works for the TB-303!)
Take care!
Yep, the TB-303 is certainly a contender. I may do a second list. Thanks for the comment.
My first synth as a kid was a Yamaha DX21 and boy was that a mistake...I didn't know what FM synthesis was and this synth proved to be a learning experience! I yearned for more than 4ops, and so years later, I had the money to get a used DX7 FDII. Now *THAT'S* a synth! I had that for years and played that a lot. 6 ops opened up a completely new world of FM synthesis! To get my feet wet into subtractive analog synthesis, I purchased a Deepmind 12 a few years ago. After cutting my teeth on FM synthesis, I never realized how easy subtractive synsthesis is! So I started getting addicted to the Korg Volca systems...what a fun bunch of synths! And don't get me started on that NTS-1!
Cool story, thanks for sharing.
Hey Jeff, I enjoyed watching the countdown. To your point, pretty much any hardware synth can be replicated "better than analog" these days. I think the broader question is "do we even need hardware synths anymore, especially analog synths?" Anthony Marinelli's channel has a great spot with a well-known synth designer who basically says "all keyboards are overhyped these days, and digital emulations are more analog than even analog synths." I have an OB-X8. I love that I own it. But it's the "lore" that keeps me from selling it. When I want an Oberheim sound in a mix, I pull up Diva, Dune 3, Arturia Analog Lab or Omnisphere and dial in a Oberheim sound while the real Oberheim sits on the keyboard stand with a cover over top of it. Truth!
Appreciate the comment.
Love this! I think you are spot on. Some comments are saying the DX7 which I disagree with & your right, it's probably the only classic synth you can still buy for reasonable money, its sound architecture is completely different from the old Analogs. A poor interface & overused presets give it a poor reputation to what I think is a very interesting synthesiser.
Your comment is spot on, thanks.
Well, there you go. I was waiting for your last comment, "Im a composer', and then it all fell into place. As a guy playing in a cover band, I like to have the "real thing" on stage. Not some software gimmick. As for your comments about keyboards breaking down, they all break down, pure and simple! Indeed, I also think antique synths are way overpriced and even those sold by professional musicians are"'stupidily" priced. But, so are old cars, bsseball cards, stamps and coins. But, an interesting list, just the same.
Appreciate your comment.
@@JeffreyScottPetro I would certainly be curious to know what keyboards you have in your collection. Have not a chance to mess with any "software" keyboards. And, I would be interested in some of your compositions, too.
Of course anything could be somewhat replicated with software but what hardware mono and poly synths do you recommend for people that prefer hardware ?
I recommend you try a bunch and buy what you like. What I like, may not be what you like. Folks, sometimes ask me if I like Synth A and Synth B, and I give them my opinion. In several of my episodes I have specifically stated that I'm not recommending any specific product. I give my opinion and other info, and it's up to the viewer to decide. I've been offered sponsorship for the channel, and I've turned it down, because I didn't believe in the product. If a company with a product I love offers me a sponsorship deal, I'll accept it, but that hasn't happened yet. Thanks for your comment.
You certainly have not wasted my time! And I agree with most of what you said - especially about the DX7 and the D50. But I have just finished recapping my latest acquisition: the fabulous DW8000. And I must say that aside from the sound it feels wonderful to play on that instrument. Same goes for my DX which I bought in 1984 for an obscene amount of money. Or the D50.
I know it's pure nostalgia. And for the same reason I would just love to play on the CS80. What a feeling...
Appreciate your comments. My nostalgia dies hard too. Always loved the DW8000.
Most of the mentioned analogue synths mentioned here could be replaced by the humble...Behringer Pro 800, it sounds amazing for that low price.
I feel like I dodged a bullet by not basing my studio around analog synths. Nothing against them, but i found there are so many good digital options that can do much more for the money. I still plan on trying out the pro-800 tho.
The difference is really prominent when you are physically in front of the instrument, hearing it in the room. Once we mix this stuff together, the magic is EQ'ed out. 😄
Kinda furthers my point@@HazeAnderson
The Pro 800 is a steal. Great synth.
What about the Polybrute 12? It seems like a fair value for the right player to me. 👍
Interesting list. I have two questions. The Roland Juno-60 is even more expensive than the 106 so why not the Juno-60 on the list? I own a Juno-60 myself and I love it. I still think it is over priced though.
The second question: I found a Casio VZ-1 for almost nothing and they are very cheap everywhere. I hate the menu diving. It is very complicated to program. Do you, or someone else, have used the VZ-1 and what do you think?
I only had space for 11, but there will be other lists. I have played the VZ-1, but I don't really remember it. I think it was an updated version of Phase Distortion, but you probably need someone else to chime in.
VZ-1 is basically an FM synth, except when an operator is phase-modulated, its frequency is replaced by 0 Hz (to get around the Yamaha patent). This has the unfortunate effect of making the harmonics odd (like a square wave), and you're supposed to use the saw 1-5 waveforms and the ring modulation to get around this unfortunate side effect of using the phase modulation (which you need to do if you're going to have any variation in brightness over time), and to get around the lack of FM feedback.
I'm curious what a hardware M1, D50 or Wavestation offers that the software versions don't, considering that these are entirely digital internally except for the DAC. Whereas software versions of genuine analogue are harder to reproduce. (Disclaimer: I own only two analog synths: the mopho and the bass station, and don't use them that much.)
"... to get a portion of that experience, even if it's not identical" -- spot on -- and true of most synths. Generally good advice for anything, really.
...speaking of Pat Metheny. I had always thought the lead on Last Train Home was a synth until I saw a live performance video. I remember they used that song for an Amtrak commercial... First place I heard it. Great song.
Minimoog - i bought a Behringer Model D, because i want the VCF, and it was cheeper on EBay than a VST.
I agree with you on all points. About 10 years ago, I started collecting the Nord Lead series and never looked back. To my ears, they are remarkable. I don’t know how they do it. and this is coming from someone who’s owned a number of vintage analogs. And (thanks to a friend), I even had a Jupiter-8 in my home for three months. It was a cool experience, but after about 3 days I was like, meh.. The thing also weighs a ton and became frighteningly hot after about 10 minutes of use. I was terrified that it was going to blow up on my watch. I think it’s not so much the synth as it is. (It’s who played them, and what recordings they were featured on). In other words “synth lore”.
Thanks for the comment.
Thanks for saying this. I totally agree with you. It took me a stretch to get there. The explosion of hype around the 106 I'll never understand. I'd try to tell ppl "hey this was considered a starter synth in the 80s." But still they'd shell out 1400 for them. I was offered a CS80 once. I went to check out an OBFV and the guy sort of switched it up and offered the CS instead. Knowing the weight the trouble and the cost to maintain i declined. But like you said, "If my neighbor had one!" Thanks for bringing it up. I'm sure you'll get a lot of hate but not from me.
Yes, there has certainly been some dissent, but I don't mind as long as the comment is a polite disagreement. Appreciate the support.
I always though of the CS-80 as an over-hyped home organ with ADSR. So you're not alone.😉 OTOH, the Moog 15 APP is killer on the iPhone! (And it's M-OWE-G, not M-OOO-G. Bob wouldn't care, but out of respect...
Since the release of this video, I have seen Reverb prices drop over 25%. I replaced most of my vintage analogs with modern reissues such as a Prophet 10, OBX8, Model D 2016 reissue. These will be easy to repair in the future. I did hang on to the Juno 60, they are reliable and nothing I have heard sounds like that amazing chorus. And yes, I have a 106 which has new voice chips and is near mint, I think it sounds great, especially for spacey pads.
LOL. Great comment, thanks.
I used to be bitter that one of my friends, not sure which, swiped my Juno 106 back in '99. Now I'm grateful. The boutique does a great job and there are 5 other options in hardware and software. Even my MPC has a Juno VST.
He swiped your Juno, how rude. A lot of people love the boutique gear. Appreciate the comment.
Agree on the modular rabbit hole. I still have a rack and I've spent thousands on modules. It was fun and a learning experience but they really are not that great and a huge time killer looking for that perfect new sound. I can go over to any of my other hardware synths and dial up a new sound that is better in a fraction of the time. Getting a analogue synth with extensive patching matrices are incredibly versatile for sound design and cost a fraction of the money and a whole lot less time patching.
Thanks for the comment.
Also, your number one is spot on. And that's not just me not being smart enough to use them!
LOL. Thanks for the comment.
Never really wanted to get into modular, and it seems to be an expensive route. If anyone reading this is into modular please don't throw your patch cables at me😂
@@jp4751- I started going down the modular route. Some of the sequencers are amazing. But the cost vs return is way too high so I sold the lot. No regrets 👍
I recently purchased a Roland Jupiter X, I can’t imagine buying a Jupiter/Juno for tens of thousands of dollars.
Excellent episode. I very much agree with you.
Thanks, John. Appreciate your support.
Too many do not understand the immediate power and one-to-ons functionality of the instruments under discussion.
The present day problems with this 40-50+ gear is finding compatible parts and competent technicians.
Today’s gear by and large cannot match the build quality of these vintage gear.
Software?
You can NEVER get that same immediacy as with hardware.
I’ve tried for years to integrate software into a live environment and it NEVER sounded as good as hardware and the setup and troubleshooting was a PITA.
Plus the software is only as good as the computer you are using!
All good arguments. Thanks for the comment.
Interesting post. I'd amend the subject to be more along the lines of Overhyped/Overpriced. There isn't a single bad sounding synth on the list. In fact the only bad thing about any of the synths on the list, are the prices. If you're starting out and don't mind menu diving or mouse clicking, then there are loads of cheaper alternatives than the gear you mentioned, but none will give you immediate sound sculpting access like these classics which were basically knob-per-function instruments just like drawbars on an organ.
With the almost infinite knobs/sliders/access points of modular, that's probably the only one I 100% agree with, only because if you don't understand basic synthesis fundamentals, like the OG Moog Oscillator-Filter-VCA paradigm, then a modular will likely overwhelm you. Not only are modulars typically some of the most expensive, unless you understand, and absolutely need to access the matrix of complexity they afford, you would truly be wasting your money.
Most of the gear on the list is so well sought after, they are almost, (but probably not quite) financial investments.
Interesting. Thanks for the comment.